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[–]BigWhiteMint 194 points195 points  (13 children)

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I was in a very similar situation. I'm 34 and was married 10 years. I did everything you're doing:

  • went to counselor to work on myself
  • read books on how to improve a marriage (even joined a support forum)
  • blew off stuff I wanted to do so I could be more supportive
  • was very patient regarding the lack of affection/sex (while being crushed inside)
  • tried to rationalize her bad behavior
  • put up with so many damn excuses, including medical

None of that worked. Things only got worse, and the marriage ended.

I didn't understand until after the divorce that the only thing that could bring her back was for her to realize that I didn't need her at all. That she was there to meet my expectations, and if they didn't get met, I would find someone who would meet them. She needed to feel a kind of space between us, so that she could see that I was a man with appetites and the will to satisfy them, and that she had to close the distance between us or walk away.

I'm sure you can see how doting on her is counterproductive to this.

So, you have two things you need to do. One, demonstrate that you are a self-reliant man who does not need or appreciate the paltry attention she currently, and two, create some space. The first requires accepting that your marriage might end and that you will deal with that possibility with a stoic attitude and goal-setting behavior. You have to believe you are number one. You don't give up what you want to do for her if she's not worth it (and that means demonstrates behaviors that please you). You work out, you hang with your friends, you eat good food.

The second requires getting some sort of distance from her. This ranges from simply cutting down on the hovering you do to conducting a a trial separation. The former is extremely difficulty in my experience. As men, we often assume we can fix everything through proactivity in the direction of people who are inactive. This cannot work with your wife because she already sees you as a non-sexual entity, and your presence reinforces this. But, the situation generates anxiety and, because you basically grew up as an adult with her and she's your close friend, you go to her in an attempt to score validation and relieve that anxiety.

This can never work.

A woman is attracted to men she knows has options. All the behaviors you're displaying indicate that you don't believe you do, even if that isn't truly the case. Think of a very attractive man. Do you think he'd put up with what you're getting? No, he'd just call one of his other women and move on. You have to do the things that suggest you are that man. In addition to being fit and successful, the best way to do this is to move out for a bit and stop talking to her so much. You have to create "space" so she starts wondering what you're up to. She has to really, truly believe that you are ready to leave her ass in the dirt and get new ass.

Maybe this sounds cruel to you. Maybe it sounds manipulative. But, your woman is sick. She's sick because she is not attracted to you, and part of her hates that. Unfortunately, she cannot cure this sickness. Only you can by demonstrating that she can lose you to someone else, and that you are of high enough quality that the thought of that becomes unbearable. Nothing about the marriage contract changes this dynamic between men and women.

Men smarter than I am told me all of this when my wife having her meltdown. I didn't listen. I only drove her further away because she felt pressured and disgusted. She literally told me that she could not see me in a sexual way, and she wasn't sure she ever loved me. She left. I moved on and worked on myself.

Now she see's how I'm doing. Promoted at work. Months away from finishing a PhD. Dating a young, attractive woman. Now I get emails and texts about how she's grieving over the loss and misses me. How she's so proud of how I'm doing. How we should spend time together.

So, move out and move on. She'll either come to you or not. If she does, great. If not, then you can drown your sorrows in between the thighs of young, hot women. Either way, you regain your manhood.

EDIT: Thanks for the gold.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

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    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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      [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

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      Seriously the best one in this thread.

      [–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

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      Very good post. I'd like to see this one at the top.

      [–]TRPtruth 8 points9 points  (1 child)

      sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

      31 here, and damn, this was me. High school sweetheart. Went through a rough patch career wise. One day during that patch it was instant she was "not attracted" to me. I mean I saw it happen the in the middle of the last time we fucked--she even initiated but right in the middle her face changed and she lost all attraction, the switch kicked off, and the marriage was over soon after.

      But, the situation generates anxiety and, because you basically grew up as an adult with her and she's your close friend, you go to her in an attempt to score validation and relieve that anxiety.

      About the anxiety and being an adult with this woman, also very true. I was with my high school sweetheart till 30. It's like you are shitted out into an environment (the modern dating scene) that you are completely unfamiliar with after something like that. After all, I couldn't even buy a pack of cigarettes the last time I was single.

      I came out with an 18 year old's mentality on how to talk to women and date and the nice guy fucking bullshit you are taught growing up. The first few women I dated after the divorce were ROUGH on me. I had no idea what I was doing. I had no idea how my "nice guy" mentality was the biggest hindrance in my sex/female relationship life. But you learn slowly with each woman.

      I had a natural TRP friend try to teach me when my marriage fell apart and I only sorta listened. Then I discovered TRP, and it was like a road map to all my successes and failures with my wife and the ladies I've met after, and confirmed almost everything my buddy said.

      Still learning, still growing. OP: listen up!!! This here sub will change your life for the better. You don't have to take it all, you don't have to agree with everything you read here, but take in what works for you and embrace YOUR life.

      [–]BigWhiteMint 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

      31 here, and damn, this was me.

      Yeah, there's nothing unique about my story. The aforementioned forum for guys going through marriage hell I referenced - we all used to joke that our wives were working from the same script. Their behaviors, lack of action, and things they said were sometimes eerily similar.

      [–]textualintercourse 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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      This. And what is the fear of separation? She either comes back to you...or she follows through on her "sexting" and cheats.

      If she cheats and hangs herself with the rope you gave her it will help you out in the divorce. Better to know now and let the inevitable happen than deal wuth her resentment of being held back. My 2 cents.

      [–]AmazingFlightLizard 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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      It honestly won't, aside from mentally making it so he can move on. Seriously. No fault divorces, it doesn't matter how much of a total scumbag the wife is, it's all about how to divide assets and time sharing with the kids. The court, it doesn't operate on a conscience. Right and wrong doesn't come into play. I know, it sounds fucked up, but that's the way it is. All the documentation in the world means nothing. She could be stepping out on him every night and it wouldn't matter. I hate saying it like this, but if you're getting out, make sure you're taking notes of her prescriptions. Make sure she gets into counseling and if you can (this sounds scumbaggy, I know) see where she stands mentally and emotionally with the doc, and what issues she's got. That will matter, POSSIBLY when it comes to time with the kid. The best, most fair thing I've seen is 50/50 and no child support for either. Though she's not working, you're gonna have to go out of pocket for some of it.

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

      That she was there to meet my expectations, and if they didn't get met, I would find someone who would meet them.

      The part I don't understand about men talking so casually about divorce that for example for us it took 2 years to furnish our apartment. Lots of money and work went into it. Many weekends spent on IKEA assembly. I remember the moving itself was such a horrible experience, living out of boxes for weeks, my back painful from all the hauling, disassembling and reassembling furniture...

      It's so fucking hard to make a home. In 2 years there was hardly a weekend we did not spend hours in shopping, or planning, or working on something to make it a better home. Finding the proper cover for the concrete balcony floor, buying, hauling and cutting and installing was 2 weekends alone.

      Maybe we are a bit too stingy - we used little help for the moving, and no help at all for setting up the home, and hunted for bargains in everywhere.

      I love her, but even if I didn't it would be way easier to live with her than to go through that again.

      What is your perspective regarding this? I find it hard to imagine people to walk away from a home they invested a lot in it, even when the relationship is not that good. For me stuff like sex is nearly not as important than living in an OK place.

      [–]BigWhiteMint 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

      The part I don't understand about men talking so casually about divorce that for example for us it took 2 years to furnish our apartment.

      I lived in a nicer place when I was married. Now I live in a less nice place, but it is much cheaper. Instead of spending my money and time on nesting, I invest my money, read great books, work out, and create. For me, it was a great trade, and I didn't realize how little I cared about having a very nice place until I no longer had it. In fact, I believe I allowed my wife's desire for comforts eclipse my own.

      If you're wife stopped giving you sex, it would be because she stopped respecting you. Her behavior and attitude would only get worse over time as her resentment for you grew. Even a palace becomes a prison when living with a monster. It's not too hard to walk away then.

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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      No, we never really had much sex to begin with because we are not sexual people and that was never the goal. The goal was to give direction to our lives by becoming like our parents, grandparents, adult people in a functional family. To take our place in the chain of being.

      As for respect, what you say is one possible scenario, maybe you are projecting your experiences into others. If a relationship is very sexual to begin with, so one of these weird kinds of marriages that are like a hookup and not an adult thing where sex is much less important than doing our duty and providing grandkids for our parents, this can happen, that it can be a result of resentment and disrespect.

      Our case is more like everything else having higher priority, for me too. If I wanted to have sex I would have never married. What would be the point? As long as a woman is hot enough for you to want to have sex with her, she is too dangerous to marry anyway. Once you grow beyond that phase and simply desire being normal, like your parents, grandparents, who takes more joy in planning the baby room than in carnal desires, that is marriage time.

      So in our case it never had anything to do with respect or resentment because we never had that hookup type of weird modern marriage to begin with. Ours was always like a working project for goals like kids and normality.

      [–]BigWhiteMint 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

      No, we never really had much sex to begin with because we are not sexual people and that was never the goal. The goal was to give direction to our lives by becoming like our parents, grandparents, adult people in a functional family. To take our place in the chain of being.

      Then obviously my post wasn't for you. It was for the 99% of other men who are sexual and would prefer an attractive wife.

      [–]17 Endorsed ContributorArchwinger 248 points249 points  (15 children)

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      You're in a really deep hole. Your wife has no respect for you -- this isn't about her medical or mental issues, her current life status, your current life status, or any of that. She has NO respect for you. You don't matter to her. She doesn't consider you her mate. You're just some roommate she's been taking advantage of.

      You'd probably be happier and better off just divorcing her. It's going to be a lot of work to reclaim any of this, and she'll fight you every step of the way, because what she thinks she wants and what she actually needs are very much not the same.

      But if you have to stay in the marriage for some reason, there is one golden rule that must remain true: You must be willing to cut ties and walk out at any time. If you are not actually willing to leave and are just talking out your ass, you have nothing. No leverage, no hope, no power, no respect.

      Your wife needs to believe, with 100% certainty, that you very much will leave her if things don't improve. And that you very much do have options with other women, but even if you didn't, that you will very much be happy and have a very fulfilling life without her. She needs to see you happy, in shape, doing your own things, having fun, maybe meeting other women, and just plain taking your life in directions you enjoy, with or without her. She needs to see your life as something she wants to hitch her wagon to again, but for that to happen, you can not be doing this for her or to attract her or to fix things. You have to focus on yourself and what's best for you (which may include leaving her if she doesn't shape up), and she can come along for the ride, or not. Because your life is about you. It's been about this ungrateful and disrespectful woman for too long.

      [–]Endorsed ContributorDoxasticPoo 33 points34 points  (1 child)

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      On the note of walking away, woman definitely like to know that you have options. But I think it's important to be willing to walk away even if you don't have options.

      Saying to her, "I'd rather be alone that with you. I'll find someone soon enough, but for now an empty bed is better than one with you in it."

      I bring this up because someone asked me, "Well, walking away is easy when you have a backup." True. It is.

      But you should ALWAYS be willing to walk away. Even if it means being alone for short time.

      [–]17 Endorsed ContributorArchwinger 30 points31 points  (0 children)

      sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

      On the note of walking away, woman definitely like to know that you have options. But I think it's important to be willing to walk away even if you don't have options.

      This is an important distinction. A very important one, actually.

      A man who isn't good, happy, and complete alone isn't a man. If you're only capable of replacing a woman, not just plain leaving her, you're missing something. For a woman to be worth an investment of time and resources, she needs to be adding value to your life. If she's not adding value to your life, you're expending time and resources that you could be putting toward anything else. Anything at all. The gym, your career, making friends, meeting other women, learning a new skill, curing cancer, whatever. Anything. You'll never get that time back.

      The end goal is to put yourself first, live your life, and be happy. With or without her, or any woman. If you're happy, successful, fit, and living a good life, women will be around.

      [–]kzwrp 23 points24 points  (9 children)

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      [–][deleted]  (8 children)

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      [deleted]

        [–]DanReggins 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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        No, don't argue! She already knows the deal.

        Start walking out; she'll either get the point and adjust or she'll bail. But she'll probably get the point.

        [–]TheeRyanGrey 44 points45 points  (0 children)

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        It's early but this is a post of the year candidate.

        [–]Manuel_S 9 points10 points  (0 children)

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        Listen to arch.

        All of you... all of us.

        [–]RPThreep 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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        Preach brother.

        [–]Red_Work 147 points148 points  (17 children)

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        I'm not gonna lie, this literally made my day. I read the king beta post and, well, here you are. Welcome to the dark side. Also, amidst the high probability that she is having an affair, start documenting anything you can get in writing especially about any meds she's on. It might not be time for a lawyer now, but in the future, who knows? Anyways, welcome to the fold.

        [–]mrpoopistan 24 points25 points  (3 children)

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        If this is the dark side, why do we seem to have a better light illuminating everything around us?

        [–]BigWhiteMint 12 points13 points  (12 children)

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        I agree with the documentation. I would put a keylogger on her computer and phone.

        [–]jlasoreilly 12 points13 points  (0 children)

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        Wouldn't recommend doing that. Besides with no fault divorce any evidence is not necessary.

        [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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        [deleted]

          [–]BigWhiteMint 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          I don't know; you'd have to do a search. There are a bunch of options. The software is typically hidden under another name. You can usually access the logs from another computer over the web.

          I only mentioned the keylogger thing because I wish I had done it. It would have saved me six months of time and four thousand dollars on a vacation that was meant to be about working on "us". Again, I would give any cheating wife the option of making her stuff open first.

          [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          cerberus can allow this. Check the documentation on how. I use it on my phone for antitheft but you could install it and hide it then monitor call logs/sms & location if you really wanted to. I am not advocating it just answering your question.

          [–][deleted] 83 points84 points  (39 children)

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          For starters:
          You are not a beggar

          Stop behaving like one.

          Also counceling will do shit if your wife disrespects you.

          [–][deleted] 25 points26 points  (36 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          I have stopped acting like a beggar. I don't ask for anything, and when I don't what I was hoping for I don't act like a bitch. Obviously this is a new behavior I've only done for a week though.

          As far as my wife respecting me, any specific tips on how to get that back? Obviously I'm through dealing with her bullshit, and I'm calling her out on her ridiculousness, but anything else?

          [–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          Read the side bar.

          Then learn to accept the following: It's not your wifes fault. She is what she is and she is it because you let her.
          The fact that the situation is your fault is maybe the onyl thing those misandric heap of "counceling"-regurgitating worms at /relationships got right. You did it.
          Learn that a womans motives and goals are entirely different from yours. You created a situation in which your wifes needs can not be met. You allowed here to be that way.
          There is a difference between want and need. Your wife needed you to be man - you weren't.

          I apologize for being rude but there is little other way to say it. I also doubt that you can turn your relationship around. This has gone too far.

          Edit: Also welcome to TRP. This will not be a comfortable trip but it will be better that way.

          [–]0h_man 21 points22 points  (6 children)

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          Not an expert here, but I have read many stories similar to yours about men incorporating dread game in their marriage. In all the stories I've read, it works like a charm. Just be cool about it, which you seem to have been doing so far.

          http://therationalmale.com/2012/03/27/dread-games/

          [–][deleted]  (5 children)

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          [deleted]

            [–]rule_of_law 1 point2 points  (2 children)

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            Gotta remember he's got at least one child to consider. A bad divorce could affect that.

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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            [deleted]

              [–]rule_of_law 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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              I agree.

              [–]TooTurnt 3 points4 points  (1 child)

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              That's also what I recommend. He needs a complete overhaul. Begging for a fucking handjob!? You think this guy can artificially emulate alpha behavior and save this marriage? Not a fucking chance. He needs to fuck a few women, spin a few plates, and gain some legitimate game/self-confidence.

              [–][deleted]  (4 children)

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              [deleted]

                [–]rapreaper 4 points5 points  (3 children)

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                Yeah but I don't think it's a good Idea for him to cheat though. We despise when women cheat but your advice is to tell him to get sex? I'd say its best if he can attract hot young girls easily and make sure his wife knows he can. Then he can use divorce as a tool to make her conform to good behaviour.

                [–]dvrzero 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                I don't think despise is the correct term. You don't despise a rain cloud for raining... It's just doing what it does. Despising it sounds like something a white knight would say...

                [–][deleted] 41 points42 points  (17 children)

                sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                As far as my wife respecting me, any specific tips on how to get that back?

                Why do you want her so desperately back? Sometimes it's better to finish it. Read up on "abundance mentality". Your wife isn't the only woman in the world.

                It's much easier to get a fresh start with a new girl than fix a sexless marriage. 7 years w/o sex, come on, you should have gotten out way before.

                [–]Waldamos 26 points27 points  (16 children)

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                If he has kids (I didn't read the redditlog), he should work at the marriage for them. Otherwise, the other thing I hate seeing so much on this subreddit is the mentality of just throwing away a wife and forgetting about the fact that when you got married you made a commitment. I will let you decide if breaking commitments is something you want to include in your frame.

                [–]brownmanisbrown 31 points32 points  (8 children)

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                This is really one-sided. She also made a commitment. A commitment to respect each other and take care of each others needs and wants. She's not holding up her end of the deal.

                [–]da-way 25 points26 points  (1 child)

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                Who cares? This isn't about her.

                If you start going down the road of "but they are misbehaving also" you run the risk of victim mentality. I agree with u/Waldamos, if there are kids and the situation is salvageable then it should be salvaged. However if it is not, seeing your parents at war everyday is not a good way to grow up.

                [–]Waldamos 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                /agreed

                [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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                When the CO doesn't keep order the company goes to shit, not the employee's fault they have no leadership or motivation. Its from the top down.

                You don't blame a dog for misbehaving, you blame the trainer for not doing a better job.

                [–]Waldamos 3 points4 points  (3 children)

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                The commitment he, or any man makes in marriage is in no way dependent on the other side's commitment. The standard vows say nothing of "only if you keep your end of the deal as well". Rather, you are saying you will honor, love, respect, care for, etc. till death. Which is why selecting someone for marriage is of the utmost importance.

                [–]brownmanisbrown 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                I agree wholeheartedly, but when you're looking for spouse you seek someone who will love you and be into you regardless of hardships. He deserves to be happy just as much as the children they are raising.

                Just to be clear, I'm a redpiller myself.

                [–]RPThreep 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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                If one party to a contract makes no attempt to fulfill its terms, the contract is null and void.

                [–]Waldamos 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                But a marriage is not a contract. It is two commitments.

                [–]notmyuglyside 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                Then let's answer his question on how to get her respect back.

                [–]lookingatyourcock 5 points6 points  (5 children)

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                Why is it better for the kids? As someone who grew up with parents that hated each other but stayed just for me, it really messed me up.

                [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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                Being raised by a single mother is one of THE largest predictors of criminal behavior.

                http://www.photius.com/feminocracy/facts_on_fatherless_kids.html

                Some snippets:

                Rearing rapists: Seventy-two percent of adolescent murderers grew up without fathers. Sixty percent of America's rapists grew up the same way. Source: D. Cornell (et al.), Behavioral Sciences and the Law, 5. 1987. And N. Davidson, "Life Without Father," Policy Review. 1990.

                63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (Source: U.S. D.H.H.S., Bureau of the Census)

                Even if they hated each other they can still provide a family structure that being apart simply can't offer.

                If it's possible to salvage it's worthwhile trying, not all kids from single mother households grow fucked up but statistics aren't on your side.

                [–]Waldamos 1 point2 points  (2 children)

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                In saying it is better for the kids, I am of course suggesting that if the parents are staying together simply for the child, then the child's best interests should be at the fore front of their marriage. In your case, they had the idea right (stay together for the child) but went about it wrong. Not filing for divorce is not enough to create happy, healthy children.

                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                Yes, one home is always preferable to two if the parents can man-up and raise the kids together. My parents were divorced and hated each other. I would never subject my kids to that kind of childhood.

                [–]lookingatyourcock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                No, but if there is a problem in the marriage, staying together for the kids isn't going to fix it, and pretending to get along will create worse problems. I'm saying divorce is a lesser evil.

                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                If he has kids (I didn't read the redditlog), he should work at the marriage for them.

                No, staying in a toxic relationship is not beneficial for kids.

                I am not going to provide sources, but divorce can be a positive things for the kids, especially when you consider the long term.

                [–]pachan 4 points5 points  (1 child)

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                spend waaaaaaaaaay less time with her. start to lift weights, start doing a martial art (boxing, muay thai, MMA, BJJ) get a hobby you enjoy. spend time with men. preferebly men who are not little bitches if possible.

                get a good diet going.

                invest in yourself. take care of yourself.

                [–]TooTurnt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                Martial Arts would be awesome for you. I can't exactly verbalize it, but it has a profound effect on your masculinity. It's good shit all around.

                [–]mrpoopistan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                She may just have seen you act beta for too long, man.

                Ask anyone around here who adjusted their game, and they'll tell you that switching up your game is often met with greater resistance than being a pussy. You have to commit to making it stick.

                [–]slcjosh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                maintain your frame, even if its to the bitter end. ITs your only hope at salvaging this. Set your boundaries, clearly, and maintain them. If they are crossed, you withdraw all attention, affection, and seek legal counsel.

                [–]rattamahatta 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                Don't 'try to get her back'. Focus on yourself for now.

                [–]mrpoopistan 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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                Also counceling will do shit if your wife disrespects you.

                Barring having the good firtune to accidentally turn up a TRP therapist (FTR, a couple of the TRP bloggers out there are therapy providers who blog anonymously, so they do exist) counseling isn't going to win you anything.

                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                I am not from the US, so the whole concept of counceling to solve relationship problems is completely and uttlery alien to me.

                [–]Moh7 166 points167 points  (24 children)

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                Dude you don't have to listen to all the shity advice you're about to get from a lot of people who don't know much about life/relationships. They're gonna expect you to go all out right away, you need some redpill in your life but that can come later.

                Right now all you need is some self respect.

                You just need to man the fuck up and not let her shit all over you and use you. You need to lay down the law and make her know that if she keeps this shit up you're leaving her. She needs to be aware that you're not putting up with this shit no more.

                Make her work for you from now on.

                If she doesn't then just think about it, do you really wanna put up with this shit for the rest of your life? You still have a chance right now to start over with someone new WHO RESPECTS YOU. She doesn't see you as a man, she sees you as her little bitch.

                You need to be serious about manning up too, make it very clear that if she doesn't change her ways you're gone. But be serious about it, you need to accept the fact that you two might be over soon, you need to be prepared for that wether it's her or you breaking it off you need to be ready to go "alright, here's my lawyers number" and just leave dude.

                Remember self respect is what's most important here, love yourself more then you love her from now on, your happiness is more important then hers.

                Best of luck and remember that a lot of personal opinions come from this subreddit and not everything you read is redpill, so read up on everything and form your own opinions.

                Edit: added more manning

                [–]PittHarman 57 points58 points  (21 children)

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                With respect I add this.

                When you "laying down the law" your really setting rules and boundaries for your life. Its not about her.

                Your saying that you will not tolerate anyone disrespecting you.

                Anyone who does will be ejected, disciplined etc.

                Your not controlling other people, your controlling what you let in your life.

                You allowed your wife to disrespect you, now simply un-allow it.

                [–][deleted]  (20 children)

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                [deleted]

                  [–]ayjayred 24 points25 points  (2 children)

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                  I think some people should take the "grammar pill"

                  [–]nophoney -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

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                  ....and choke on it.

                  My reading comprehension is so good I can interpret the implied differences in poor grammar.

                  [–]icallmyselfmonster 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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                  ...and choke on it.

                  FTFY

                  [–]Multicorn 15 points16 points  (2 children)

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                  It's tough to have your ideas respected if you didn't bother to master your native language, or don't bother to present it without the distraction of a dozen errors. It's especially easy for trolls to use them as red herrings or to discount the substance of your message.

                  [–]Moh7 3 points4 points  (2 children)

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                  I use alien blue from my iphone so when I type stuff it feels like I'm texting and always end up using my texting habits

                  Either way at the end of the day it doesn't fucking matter, everyone understood what was being said so who gives a fuck.

                  Intelligence isn't being able to properly write a sentence, English is my third language. I can't be fucked to properly learn how to write every single one of them.

                  [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                  [deleted]

                    [–]ejsrocket -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                    People like to throw a big shit-fit over spelling and grammar on the internet while I couldn't give a fuck. It's just letters on a page and random names you're gonna forget as soon as you go on to your next page. Unless dey tlk lik dis I don't worry about it.

                    [–]PittHarman 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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                    I'm not a cave man.

                    I prefer my message to be concise and clear, nothing extraneous.

                    Consider it a poem. A tiny clear vision.

                    Like an Ezra Pound Canto without the intellect or madness.

                    [–]PittHarman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                    I also never said women should stay in their place.

                    Women should, however, own the place they choose to be in.

                    [–]WhitePhillip 1 point2 points  (2 children)

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                    I get where you're coming from but we're not teaching grammar, we're teaching life skills. As long as the message is being conveyed properly it really makes no difference in the delivery. In fact, there are going to be people who will absorb the message better this way. It's like comparing Ice Cube to The Allman Brothers. Some people just react differently to different types of stimulus.

                    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                    [deleted]

                      [–]WhitePhillip 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                      Having proper grammar is not the benchmark for all intellect. "Intelligence" is relative to what it is applied to. It doesn't matter how shitty my vocabulary is if the task at hand is to change a transmission or play a guitar. People excel at different things and the sum of those things is where intelligence should be measured..

                      Grammar, image, and delivery are all wonderful things to have. But educational programs don't ensure that everyone receives the same end product. Is it easier to get pussy when you're well spoken? Depends on the girl. A lot of dumb bitches don't enjoy dialogue that is overly complicated.

                      This guy wasn't grunting about women staying in their place. He was telling OP to readjust his frame.

                      I also think you might reconsider your idea that TRP members are high intelligence. Yes we do have a lot of great discussion and banter here but we absolutely have our dummies. You think higher of TRP and its members because you're a part of it. We believe our way of thinking to be correct therefore we give preference to those who are like minded. It's like how most people act when they see a girl who is extremely attractive. They base their conclusions around the hotness instead of the truth.

                      Too many people think that they are smarter than average. Most are not. But nobody wants to be a dummy. The fact is that the average intelligence everywhere is average.

                      That being said, I absolutely love this sub. And I believe the truth we share. But we don't have to be smart to know the truth. We simply have to be taught.

                      [–]DarkStrobeLight 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                      You could at least have correct punctuation when you're calling out bad grammar.

                      [–]headless_bourgeoisie -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                      I feel like most of us here are at least 75 percentile intelligence-wise. Probably a lot higher on average.

                      Really? Have you read the "required reading"? It all reads like it was written by an 8 year old. It does not reflect well on the intelligence of this sub.

                      [–][deleted] 57 points58 points  (7 children)

                      sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                      Damn, you actually found your way here.

                      A lot of advice you usually hear in this sub is "NEXT!", and while I'd agree in your special case (because your wife is obviously nuts), I respect your will to try to make things better. You have to ask yourself though: Is it because you think she's worth it, or is it because you're afraid? If it's just because you're afraid then leave her. You have no reason to be.

                      You have to realize that you have a lot to offer. You're getting in shape, have a great job and you'll be better every day. If you ever broke things off with your wife, she'd be worse off then you. Nobody wants a wife past the wall and especially not a one that's as fucked up as yours is.

                      Realize that she needs you more than you need her. Also realize, that she's probably cheated on you. (Sexting just "to feel normal"), to everybody in this sub that's a huge fucking red flag. Are you sure her pain while having sex is not just something she came up with to not have sex with you anymore?

                      • Start working out (and I mean it, every other day!)

                      • Start being social with other girls (You don't have to fuck them, it's enough if your wife sees that you have options)

                      • If your wife doesn't do something for you, then you won't do anything for her either

                      • Don't beg for handjobs in the shower. Don't ever beg for anything, take it! (Note: I'm not saying rape her.) What I mean is, that your life is in your own hands, and if she doesn't want to help you out, some other girl surely will. You are the man in your own house and you have control over what happens.

                      • You're 34. You might believe that's pretty old, but you have probably another 10 years until you're really past your prime. (Look at Brad Pitt, that guy's is fucking 50!). Get in shape and keep your good job and you won't be able to run away from all the women you could get.

                      • Do not show your wife any actual emotion as long as she doesn't please you. You stand above her (socially & emotionally) and she has to feel that. Women never respect men they have control over.

                      If you indeed want to save your marriage, you've come to the right place. Do as you're told by the guys in this sub and you'll be good. I just hope your wife's worth it, I would have shot her to the moon ages ago, but that's just me. Good luck bro.

                      [–]sweetleef 27 points28 points  (2 children)

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                      You're 34. You might believe that's pretty old, but you have probably another 10 years until you're really past your prime.

                      More like 25, maybe more if he stays fit and keeps building his wealth and network. Youth is not a selection criterion for women - power, wealth, and status are. King Beta sounds like he has a handle on developing those, at least outside his home.

                      There isn't a woman on reddit of any age that wouldn't put out for George Clooney if they really believed they had a shot at snagging him long-term, and not one of them would ask about his age. Hell most would probably put out for Sean Connery in his 80s, if they had the chance.

                      [–]mrpoopistan 15 points16 points  (0 children)

                      sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                      Youth is not a selection criterion for women - power, wealth, and status are.

                      This needs more upvotes. Honestly, I'd boil it down to power and status, because wealth is merely in that nexus and not a discrete thing in its own right.

                      [–]AveofSpades 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                      Exactly.

                      Remember when Brad Pitt was married to Jennifer Aniston? They had their "lists" of people they'd be allowed to have sex with. On Jennifer Aniston's list (remember she's married to and fucking Brad Pitt)? Steven fucking Tyler

                      http://www.fark.com/comments/33626

                      Yeah. That chick would take Steven Tyler's old dick over Brad Pitt's

                      [–]mrpoopistan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                      A lot of advice you usually hear in this sub is "NEXT!", and while I'd agree in your special case (because your wife is obviously nuts), I respect your will to try to make things better.

                      Also, he's married. Like it or not, it isn't an easy situation to disentangle unless he intends to flee the country.

                      [–]FugitiveAlpha 1 point2 points  (2 children)

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                      Are you sure her pain while having sex is not just something she came up with to not have sex with you anymore?

                      Please... This isn't even a question. Sex should cause a woman pain (reasonable amounts), thing is, they should be so turned on that they like it (most LOVE IT). The most likely reason for a woman to complain about pain during sex is that shes not turned on, so none of it is enjoyable, so that minor pain, is really unpleasant.

                      [–]1 Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                      Can confirm.

                      I always induce some sort of minor pain, when we're really going at it.

                      Could be boring things like pinching the nipples in a steady way but no too hard. Just a so it teases a little bit. Or the godd ol' assslap may as well be good.

                      They all have some place on their bodies they like being touched on a little firmer.

                      I experimented with that when i had longer lasting RLs and they love it if it's some place nobody "used" before as that makes it a very intimidate thing only you and her share.

                      [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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                      [deleted]

                        [–]bgny 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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                        It wouldn't be a total loss, there's still great advice here that will no doubt help and educate others.

                        [–]calantus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                        I felt the same way

                        [–]Endorsed ContributorpuaSenator 37 points38 points  (4 children)

                        sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                        A lot of people here are going to give you all sorts of advice with different degrees of Redpill and speculation. The truth is, no one really knows or understands your situation well enough to be giving speculative advice. The only reliable information you should take away at this point is just the general TRP concepts and let yourself figure out how to apply them to yourself.

                        That being said, everything about your original post says you're what we, and therapy professionals, call a "Nice Guy." And no, it's not what you think. It's a terrible thing.

                        If there is just ONE thing you take away from this sub, it's getting a book called ~No More Mr. Nice Guy~. It's regarded as probably the quintessential male self book ever written in modern times. In fact, it seems like your therapist is trying to help you in this field as well, so the information would be really supplementary.

                        If you want I can upload the audiobook to Mega for you.

                        [–]keemar 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                        sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                        upload it for the rest of us if you can or provide the authors name. a lot of book with that title in my library.

                        [–]Endorsed ContributorpuaSenator 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                        sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                        You know what, I just looked and it seems like I've deleted the torrent and files. The author is Robert Glover.

                        [–]keemar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                        no prob, thanks for the info.

                        [–]SgtBrutalisk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                        I highly recommend "No More Mr. Nice Guy", it's remarkably eye-opening.

                        [–][deleted] 25 points26 points  (2 children)

                        sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                        She stepped backwards with the shopping cart and stepped on my toes with the heel of her boots. She purposely put all her weight on it and it hurt like hell.

                        Yes, my wife does get physical with me at times. Sigh, this is fucking pathetic. Occasionally she'll try to hit me in the groin, not out of anger, just playfully. I'm not sure if she thinks it's just funny or she is trying to emasculate me. There hasn't been any instances except for the stepping on my toes this past week so I haven't been able to correct her, but I will be the next time she does it.

                        This part disturbed me the most. Some thoughts:

                        a) Switch genders and imagine a woman mentioning, even in passing, on /r/relationships, that her husband purposefully stomped her foot, or punches her in the breasts once in a while. Imagine the furore, the sheer penis-cutting fury of the hivemind who, given enough information, may actually physically harm such a man. Now go back and read your thread and realize that no one offered to protect your back even 1/10th despite being an EQUAL victim of abuse.

                        b) I'm happy for you that you are standing up to this kind of behaviour. It doesn't matter what her motives are, but it will matter to you, my friend, that you protect your self-esteem by standing up for yourself. Say"No" when she does this extremely emphatically.

                        Other than this, to make her respect you, I have some specific advice:

                        a) Take sex. You want to tap that ass? TELL her that you're going to tap that ass. Don't fucking REQUEST it. If she wants to say "No", she should have the space to do it, but being assertive is important. This goes especially well with point b:

                        b) Body language : if you found /r/theredpill, you're competent enough to find the article on /r/seduction, etc; but basic things like : stand up straight. Hold your head high. Own your space when you walk. Like a boss. And in a month, you'll notice that that's how you actually FEEL, too. For example, you'll just find yourself getting more service at restaurants, at 7/11, wherever you go. There is absolutely no need to walk through life as if you are apologetic for your existence. On the contrary, after some weeks of being a boss (in terms of body language), you will find that everybody around you is just much more comfortable with you being so confident. In every interaction, roles become much more clear because you are assertive. Men love a confident man. Women love a confident man. And you will love a confident you. :-)

                        c) Read more of /r/seduction : not because you want to seduce anyone, but because they focus constantly on being alpha. In my experience, the body language was enough to make a radical difference in how I interfaced with the world.

                        I would leave a bitch who hit me in the groin even once or did that foot stomping thing, I mean : how can I be inspired to be with someone who is cruel??, but even if you choose to stay with her, I can see from your initiative that you're going to be a BOSS very soon! :-)

                        [–]acidify 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                        There is absolutely no need to walk through life as if you are apologetic for your existence.

                        Damn straight!

                        [–]themasterof 10 points11 points  (0 children)

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                        KingOfAllBetas, please post updates on what is happening once in a while.

                        [–]Endorsed Contributortheubercuber 48 points49 points  (26 children)

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                        Your wife is probably having an affair.

                        Regardless, once a woman has dehumanized you so much, there's not much chance of recovery with her. I think your best bet for happiness is to get back out there and find another woman you can do better with.

                        [–]648262 14 points15 points  (0 children)

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                        She's drugged up on Prozac and just sits around. I don't think she's doing much, except maybe an online profile somewhere for validation.

                        I'm not saying she wouldn't, but depression and self esteem issues seems to keep her in check.

                        [–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (24 children)

                        sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                        She literally never leaves the house, I take the car to work, she does daycare from our home so the thought of her having nooners is highly unlikely. That being said, I do consider the sexting thing to be an affair of sorts. I'm not nearly as angry about it as I would be if she was fucking someone, but I'm still angry about it and I made that known to her last week that I wouldn't tolerate it.

                        You're probably right about needing to leave, but I don't want to get fucked in court if I can salvage this thing. She makes a pittance at her job and I'm sure that I'd get screwed.

                        [–]themasterof 25 points26 points  (0 children)

                        sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                        BTW, when you decide to leave, talk with a lawyer before you talk with her. Always. When you have finished talking with your lawyer, and you guys have prepared the necessary, then you can start talking to your wife about divorce.

                        She shouldn't know that you are divorcing her, not before the papers are on the table and the pen is ready to have her pick it up and sign the papers. Dont even think about pitying her, she has treated you like a non-human servant.

                        [–]cdx75xmx 66 points67 points  (2 children)

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                        If she's sexting someone, she's getting fucked by him/them. That "blank stare" she gave you when you confronted her about it again wasn't because she forgot about what happened 6 months ago, but because she wasn't sure if you were talking about/had found out about her recent sexting (she's still doing it, bro).

                        [–]jonivaio 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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                        Back in the day I used to sexting with a girl who had a boyfriend. She regularly deleted our message log because she knew that her boyfriend was checking her phone.

                        [–]cdx75xmx 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                        You may not have been the only one she was sexting. In any case, if I were OP I'd assume she was physically involved with this guy(s).

                        [–]worms_to_mooch_sex 22 points23 points  (10 children)

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                        dudes have cars

                        nanny cam.

                        if she is having an affair, and you get proof, that def. helps you not get screwed in a divorce right?

                        [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (7 children)

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                        Not if she was having an affair because she was unhaaaaapppy

                        [–]mrpoopistan 7 points8 points  (6 children)

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                        Not true.

                        If he can clearly demonstrate that he didn't cheat and that she did, he not only has the upper hand in the divorce, he can sue the person she was cheating with for inflicting harm and depriving him of companionship.

                        Remember that the modern family court system is a perverse alliance of tradcons and feminists. But the feminists don't fight very hard for any ground that they have to defend on their own.

                        For example, look at how the legal interpretation of gay relationships has evolved. Even though it's clearly not a tradcon value, it's being constructed along tradcon lines even though lots of studies indicate that absent the LGBT-feminist alliance it would be a much more . . . free form structure (polyamorists, we're looking at you). The truth is that feminists aren't willing to give up the power that they have (divorce and the basic family structure) in order to pay off a smaller and weaker ally, so they've forced that ally into the framework of their stronger ally's worldview.

                        Why? Because feminists aren't going to suicidally give up their best ally (tradcons) in screwing their most important opponents (any man with two pennies to rub together). They value divorce too much to risk a major reconstruction of the American family to accommodate their LGBT allies. So the kinkster, queers, perverts, and other outsiders have been ordered to get with the tradcon program as best they can, and we end up pimping the unthinkably weird model of monogamous gay marriage as if it were normal. (FTR, I support any type of marriage you want, and in my world you could marry six people from three genders if you wanted.)

                        The family court system is at its base a lot of left wing bullshit hung on a tradcon framework. Peel away the bullshit, and it still boils down to the basic tradcon imposition of morality from outside the individual.

                        In this particular instance, that happens to work to the guy's advantage.

                        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                        sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                        You would need a good lawyer and an awfully large amount of money to push that though. I have seen many cases where she cheats and he doesn't and she still comes out on top.

                        [–]mrpoopistan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                        You need a good lawyer no matter what. Going into court with anything less is suicide.

                        [–]RPThreep 0 points1 point  (3 children)

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                        Where the fuck do you guys live that no-fault divorce isn't a thing? It's the most major legal "innovation" of the feminist era and it exists specifically to make the fact that she's fucking around on him irrelevant to the proceedings.

                        EDIT: delete subclause

                        [–]mrpoopistan 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                        sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                        States have a structure for handling the question of whether a divorce should be handled by mutual consent, no-fault, or at-fault structures.

                        The only time a no-fault divorce is granted with regards to the interests of only one party is when the other party simply refused to end the marriage.

                        She doesn't magically get a no-fault divorce if I decide I want an at-fault divorce and have the ability to prove fault on her part.

                        In a no-fault case, the burden of proof falls upon the petitioner. If the responding spouse comes into court and says that he also wants a divorce and can prove fault, then it is his right to petition for an at-fault divorce and compel the court to resolve the competing petitions.

                        [–]RPThreep 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                        Shit, does that actually seriously affect settlements? Here in Australia it's no-fault all the way regardless of who did what.

                        [–]StrongGoatee 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                        Naw, I know a woman who cheated on her husband and she still got a monster Child Support judgement and half his pension. Cheating means dick if there isn't a pre-nup that specifically states that cheating is grounds for divorce.

                        OP needs to consult a lawyer without his wife's knowledge and formulate a plan for the eventual divorce.

                        [–]rapreaper 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                        Not if infidelity doesn't do anything to a divorce settlement. Depends on the laws in your country/province.

                        [–]FugitiveAlpha 8 points9 points  (2 children)

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                        Move the bitch to a state that doesn't have alimony, THEN divorce her.

                        [–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                        LOL... You know that almost seems like the best option available.

                        [–]Gyrolin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                        For clarity: Community Property States

                        There are nine community property states in the U.S.:

                        Arizona
                        California
                        Idaho
                        Louisiana
                        Nevada
                        New Mexico
                        Texas
                        Washington
                        Wisconsin
                        

                        Not All Property Is Marital Property

                        Not all property the couple owns is considered marital property. Anything that is not considered marital property is not divided equally in community property states. Marital property excludes:

                        Anything acquired before the marriage or after the date of separation
                        Cash received by one of the spouses as a gift or inheritance as long as it is deposited in a separate bank account in one spouse's name only
                        Property received by one of the spouses as a gift or inheritance as long as the property is in one spouse's name only and not mixed with other marital assets
                        

                        Note that debts are considered marital property, and are split evenly in a community property state.

                        Source: http://divorce.lovetoknow.com/List_Community_Property_States

                        [–]alphabetmod 7 points8 points  (1 child)

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                        I just want to jump in here and ask you something that everyone seems to be overlooking. Has she always been so insufferable or did the start of all this shit coincide with her drug dependence. A fentanyl patch is no joke. It also sounds like she is addicted to percocet and motrin as well. A lot of people think you don't get addicted to OTC pain meds, but you can. Like you said, even the massive amount of shit she is taking probably doesn't take away her pain anymore, but I can gaurantee that it's affecting her behavior. Does she ever seem like she is out of it, or do you notice that she has mood swings that coincide with her dosages?

                        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                        sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                        Her mood swings have gotten worse as she's been working herself off Prozac. There are definetly times where she is out of it. I took her on a week long trip, she started the Fentanyl patch that week. She literally couldn't keep her eyes open. We were at a four star restaurant on top of a huge hotel with an amazing view and I'm sitting there nudging her because she was falling asleep in her chair.

                        [–]mrpoopistan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                        I gotta agree with the OP.

                        The downside is that in girl logic, sexy texting can be worse than just getting a piece of ass. Ass by itself means nothing to a woman. The way another man makes her feel, OTOH, can be caustic as fuck to your relationship.

                        [–]vozkhan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                        If you are in the unfortunate position of being a man in a family court and don't want to be penetrated in the ass too hard I would suggest you read articles on how to protect yourself financially, and from what i have read she will be absolutely vicious and ruthless and squeeze every penny out of you, you think your life sucks imagine if she divorces you, takes half your shit, request expensive alimony because she is a victim on medication, child support because she will end up with the kid and ofcourse you wont be able to see your kid. Maybe you have evidence she is an unfit mother? Anyway hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

                        This article here is written for women but a man reading it has more to benefit from it http://www.forbes.com/sites/jefflanders/2012/07/18/can-a-trust-protect-my-assets-in-divorce/

                        [–]Gyrolin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                        I know it has been said before and is being said in response to this post already, but there is one thing that cannot be understated. Talk to a lawyer as soon as possible, but don't tell anyone you know about it. You can tell us and perhaps your therapist, but it could undermine a lot of your standing with the family once it gets around. You already mentioned to her that you had thought about it, so it's in her head and she may already be doing the same "just in case". If it does come to needing to tell her that you talked to an attorney, do it. Don't ever mention it in anger and only mention it when you are seriously considering it.

                        When dealing with divorce it's best to start documenting and dealing with legal professionals as soon as you can. Just because you go to a lawyer, doesn't mean you're getting a divorce. All divorce attorneys know that. Make a lunch date with a local attorney one day and tell him that you are thinking about filing for divorce if things continue to go poorly. He will probably ask a lot of directed questions, but at the end of the day you will know where you stand and won't get blindsided if she decides to turn the tables.

                        If things go poorly, you stand to lose your kids, most of your income, and your house. I'm not saying you should be fearful of your wife, because that's what got you in this mess. I'm merely suggesting that you "prepare for the worst, plan for the best" as they say.

                        TL;DR: TALK TO A DIVORCE ATTORNEY ASAP

                        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                        [deleted]

                          [–]19 Endorsed Contributordrrrrrr 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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                          Hey. In that thread, I said you were hopeless - that some men were just made to be betas, and that was that. I basically went on about how you were too worthless, too hamster to ever do a 180 in your life. Maybe you are, maybe you're not. Only you know.

                          Here's the one piece of advice that I have for "hard-case" betas. The old you has to die for a new person to come forth. You figuratively have to KILL the bitch in you if you want to be better than that. You have to understand that you will never be the same - you have to be willing to lose your wife, your friends, your limited views on morality, everything that you cherish as your 'identity'. To become the opposite of what you described in that thread... you have to understand that the price may be absolute. By that I mean, you will have to become a completely different person.

                          If you're willing to do that, then go deeper down the rabbit hole. If you're not, then back out now and go back to your old life. Drinking up RP ideas while not taking action and remaining in a beta's shoes will only create mental torture for you. If you aren't going to actually commit to this shit, then go back to blissful ignorance.

                          Remember, marriage is a power game. It's not purely a sex game, it's not purely a financial or support or emotional or romantic game. It's a power game. You currently have no power in your relationship, meaning that all you can do is go up. Don't try to "incorporate more alpha" into a beta personality. Choose to trash the beta personality and become a powerful person in all aspects of your life.

                          Edit: Side note, you need to figure out if you're wife is fucking around. I think you might be in the dark about that - I know you said no divorce, but from what that other thread said, it sounds like you are in denial and she is most likely having emotional / physical affairs. You need to get to the bottom of that, because once you face the truth there, your attitude towards divorce may change.

                          [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

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                          I just want to thank everyone for the advice. I have read, and re-read, and re-read every post on here, and I'm taking the advice I get very seriously, some I can and will implement, some of it probably just isn't for me, or at least isn't right now. Last night I went home and talked to my wife for four hours, we got a lot accomplished. She pretty much cried the whole time and I sat very stoic and told her how it is, it went very well.

                          I don't know what the future holds for me and my wife, I'm hoping that if last night wasn't a wake up call, it was a kick in the ass. She knows that she needs to get motivated and get her ass off the bed, and I flat out told her that.

                          I'm far from perfect, and obviously I have issues that I'm working on. Dependence on the relationship, enabling her to do fuck all, overall just being a pushover. Here's the things I'm going to do:

                          -Get in better shape. I started the 100 push up challenge with some buddies, I'm also looking to get a set of dumbbells. I know cardio is shit on in TRP a bit, but I have no stamina and I think that will help, plus I need to get rid of the fat. I also plan on running a 5 mile in a few months.

                          -Work on my hobbies. I have a charcoal smoker that I love using, right now it's cold as shit but I'm going to try new recipes and try to compete with it this year. I want to get outdoors more often as well, I love hiking, camping, fishing, etc. I don't do it nearly as often as I want.

                          -Home improvement. My house is getting older and I know don't know much about home improvement, but I have a dad and a father-in-law that know a ton. Shit needs to be done, like build a new bedroom in my basement. Even just minor repairs I've been putting off. Fixing those gives me a great sense of accomplishment

                          -Stop taking shit, at home and at work. I told my wife that I'm not doing everything for her last night, and that when she's acting like a bitch I'm going to call her on it. At work I've already started working on this, instead of rolling over and doing everything that someone says I'm questioning them and telling them "no".

                          -Have some gawdamn dignity. Aside from my body, I have everything that a woman could want, I've got real value to women. If my wife continues to not see it, or see it and not do anything about it, I'm prepared to leave. I'm working on an exit strategy if that were to happen, but like many of you said, words without action are just words.

                          I will try to post updates as changes warrant them. Thanks again for all the help, motivation, and reality checks!

                          [–]Biggest_boss 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                          Good luck

                          [–]Endorsed ContributorYouDislikeMyOpinion 16 points17 points  (0 children)

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                          Welcome.

                          The first thing I wanted to talk to you about was medical conditions. This is a very complicated topic. The reality is that as men, we will never be able to truly equate how medical conditions mentally affect us compared to how they affect women. You may both get sick with the same flu, and it's completely possible for you to feel sort of ok, and for her to feel useless and dead. I agree that a lot of how she feels can be contrived, whether cognitively or through subconscious thinking/strategizing. The problem is that you don't know how far the rabbit hole goes in terms of her thinking. Bear with my explanation. If she's sick and all she wants to do is lay around the bed all day, the psychological constructs in her brain that encourage her to lay around all day can be so deeply rooted that they were there since she was 16 years old.

                          It is clear as day that she has mental problems. It's clear as day that these will never be fixed overnight, and there is a very high probability that they will never be fixed. Believe me, I've had some of these types of girls. At a certain point, I just dislodge.

                          I told her that it was ridiculous to wait because that could be months before it happens, if it does at all, and she’s just delaying her (and our) happiness.

                          Don't be this black and white. Unless you know for certain, it's completely possible that she's that fucked up.

                          You took the right step laying down the law in terms of how you will not take shit from her anymore. The thing about you standing up for her to your family is also good. That doesn't mean taking your wife's side, it simply means standing up for her, I see that as a good thing.

                          Stop fucking pleasing people. You dumbass, you've pleased everyone but yourself. 34 years old, and do you see where it got you? Keep pleasing everyone else but yourself, do you really think people care about you? No. I don't care about you, neither does anyone here, we just help you. If you die today I will sleep like a baby. You are the barrier to your own happiness, and no one else is going to do anything for you.

                          Also, you have to realize that you yourself have mental problems. No normal person would stay in a relationship like yours for that long. You've got a lot of personal development ahead of you, and to be honest with you, it's not certain that you will ever recover/overcome your own issues. You're also a masochist.

                          [–]17 Endorsed Contributortrudatness 18 points19 points  (0 children)

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                          Welcome to the real world Neo

                          EDIT:

                          You need an entire rewrite of your personal mindset. That starts by reading all the material to the right --->

                          Read it. Understand it. Own it.

                          There's no little trick thing you can say or do that can fix things. You have to become a different man.

                          You have to change yourself into an Alpha. You need to get in shape physically and mentally.

                          You have to get to a place where you'll look at your wife with a feeling of neutrality. All desperation must leave you. She needs to be the wanting sweating you - not you sweating her.

                          This takes time.

                          The first thing you need to do is back away from her and leave her be. Start focusing on yourself. Self improvement is your mission. You take care of that - things will start to fall into place - whether you can fix your marriage or whether divorce becomes the inevitable path.

                          [–]Biggest_boss 13 points14 points  (0 children)

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                          Geeez..... I hope you somehow spend the rest of your life finding and doing things that make you happy - you specifically, not your wife or anyone else.

                          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                          [deleted]

                            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                            Sadly I feel the same

                            [–]IsaidMarkItEIGHT 3 points4 points  (1 child)

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                            Wow, you poor bastard. You've already bowed and scraped for years, so you've ingrained a dynamic in your relationship that is almost unbreakable. I think you need to take a big step back and try to honestly ask yourself what you want for the rest of your life. Even your post here is essentially "what can I do to change my behaviour so that I can get this woman to love me the way I want?" You can call it whatever you want- RedPill, Alpha, whatever. It's all bullshit in your case. You are still trying to win her over by putting up a front.

                            When you boil down RedPill and Alpha behaviour, the truth that lies at its core is the ability and the willingness to walk away. Alpha behaviour and RedPill theory are simply a means of projecting this ability and willingness in a way that makes the opposite sex understand the boundaries, and thereby conform to a desired behaviour or send a clear signal that it is time to move on. You are clearly not willing to walk, so you will simply end up groveling in a different manner. You may think you're being "Alpha" through certain mannerisms and actions, but if doing X to get Y is simply an empty action with no real consequences behind it, you are still just trying to win approval under a different guise. You are a paper tiger in this relationship and she knows it.

                            Ok, so how to give this relationship one last chance? First of all, make a list of what you would want in your ideal relationship- not your ideal relationship with her, but your ideal relationship with a mate who you will spend the rest of your life with. Beside that list, make a list of the ideal qualities that you would like to possess as a man and in the eyes of your mate. Be honest and do not make the list and think to yourself, "well, I could do without this if I got that, etc." That is the poisonous tradeoff mindset you've been stuck in for years and got you into this mess in the first place. You have to kill that part of yourself. Once this list is complete, the litmus test is whether it resembles your relationship with your current wife. If it is in any way close to the qualities she possesses, start over because you have lied to yourself. If you've got a good list, memorize it. That is your bible. Next, set a time limit. Write at the bottom of that list that your relationship will fit that list within X time or you will walk. You may not believe it yet, but write it anyway. You will look at that list every day. The more you read the list and compare it to your current situation, the more you will believe it, and the massive shortcomings in your relationship will become more and more clear. Now, do your reading and incorporate the behaviours and mindset that embody that ideal man you want to be. Some of the suggested actions on this sub are childish and pedantic, so use your head as a 34 year old man when you are forging the man you are to become. At the end of this time period, I promise you that if you read that list every day and you work at becoming your ideal man, the major shortcomings in your relationship will be clear as day and you will no longer be a paper tiger. You will be ready to walk and find that ideal mate.

                            As a jump start, you need a hard reset in your marriage. The only way to do this is absence. Schedule a week vacation with your buddies or solo. Tell your wife that you are taking a retreat to think and that you only want to talk to her if there is an emergency. During that week make your list and do not call her no matter what. This accomplishes two things. First, it gives you some distance to clear your head and get some objectivity when you make the list. Second, your wife is going to have an "oh shit" moment when you're not around licking her boots every day. When you come back, she is going to treat you different because she will, for the first time in your relationship, have the hard realization that you might leave if shit does not change. She is going to treat you well for a short period of time. Then, slowly but surely, she is going to test your boundaries and try to suck you back into that bitch dynamic. At this point, you will take a step back, realize what she is doing, and study your list. You will not let your resolve slowly erode. You will cling to that list like it is a life raft. Because it is. It's your life to live how you want, and you shall not live it in a shitty quagmire of despair.

                            Begin your life my friend, it's yours to take.

                            [–]heist_of_saint_graft 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                            So much cold beautiful logic. If this post were given to every man when he turns 18, we wouldn't have anymore domestic murder-suicides.

                            [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

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                            Wow, what a teachable moment.

                            First off, I suppose it's important to note that the denizens of /r/relationships aren't intentionally leading you astray - many of them believe they're giving you rock-solid advice. That, of course, doesn't change the fact it's not based in reality and will not turn around your relationship with your wife. Or, to be more succinct: betas give shitty advice.

                            I'm just going to give it to you straight: anytime you're begging for a handjob in the shower, you're dealing with a woman who is fundamentally not attracted to you. Most people in the other thread are in agreement your wife wants you to divorce her, and is most likely cheating on you. You're in the unenviable position of being considered lower than pond scum to your own wife, and if you divorce her, well, that will be costly.

                            Also, this sounds suspiciously like pedestalization:

                            My wife, despite many expecting her to be fat, is actually very attractive, I don't know her weight, but she's 5'3", has a bit of a pooch, incredible breasts, her ass is getting flat from sitting in bed all day though. From the outside looking in, my wife is probably an 8 based on pure-looks alone.

                            She might be the human embodiment of Venus, it doesn't really matter - what matters is she's clearly not attracted to you at the moment.

                            I'm probably not the greatest source for marriage advice as I have never been married, but it sounds like you're on the right course with reading the sidebar and being especially focused to the MMSL stuff. I don't know if your situation can be reversed - I'd suspect not - but using those sources as a framework will be far more helpful than any shit-tier advice you're going to get from le reddit army.

                            [–]musicvita25 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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                            Well done. Well done for asking for help. Honestly well done.

                            I suggest reading the sidebar. And just swallowing. Welcome aboard.

                            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                            Oh, I forgot to add that I'm continuing to learn. I was going to start No More Mr. Nice Guy last night but the talk took the entire evening. I'm hoping to get started today, as well as rereading the sidebars.

                            [–]Endorsed Contributorwhiskey_bearfist 9 points10 points  (0 children)

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                            once a woman has determined that you are low status male, it is very difficult and in some cases impossible to fix.

                            that said, you shouldnt worry about your wife's impression of you for now.

                            imagine that you have both already agreed to get divorced, and you are now making preparations to get out there and smash some strange. do everything you need to do to accomplish that.

                            women are nuts about a guy that has options.

                            lift weights and fix your diet.

                            get out there and flirt with and attract women. in your mind, convince yourself that you just want to fuck them, not be in a relationship with them.

                            actually get some options. whether you fuck them is up to you. but get to a point where you know that if your wife walked out, you could have a girl in your bed within a day or two.

                            she will be able to sense that lack of depending on her for sexual validation and it will drive her crazy.

                            thats basically teh only way i know to get out of the low status role she sees you in.

                            once you have options, or are spinning plates as we often say around here, your neediness will disappear. neediness will dry up a pussy faster than the hottest desert sun.

                            [–]slcjosh 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                            Welcome friend. I hope you find what you seek.

                            My best advice to you is to do what you can to attract a lot of female attention, and make sure your fucking wife knows about about. Dont hide it. If other women are interested in you, it should light a fire up under her ass. Snap her out of the crazy mood swings and result in you getting some much deserved poontang..ya know, FROM YOUR FUCKING WIFE.

                            Be wary of her, do not trust her fully. She already engaged in in incredibly destructive and inappropriate behavior by "sexting" another man, It is entirely possible that relationship got physical. Run down all leads on that, keep any evidence you find in case a divorce lawyer needs it. And fuck what anyone else thinks, if your wife is sexting a man, you have all the justification in the world to dig through her shit. Fuck society and its silly bullshit about how that is wrong. She proved to you she cant be trusted, at this point, it is in you bet interest to cover your ass.

                            Keep moving in the right direction. Lead your wife. Lead your family. Take back control and never bend your frame. You are going to get a fuck ton of resistance due to the history of your relationship.

                            Be prepared for the scenario that you two are beyond repair, and act accordingly. I would suggest following through with seeing a lawyer and finding out what your options are.

                            [–]Moneyley 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                            I agree with most of the posts here about continuing to better yourself, and although I also feel a divorce is in order, I'm gonna consider the conditions you wanna work with. First, start setting up time apart. Handle the stuff with your kid (time fun etc) but let it be just with him. Next, in your posts you note about her mental condition and it seems unstable; let her handle it. If she accepts, your counter-offer is that she pays her own dr but you'll support her emotionally. (dont invest in this, not even a dime) if she wants it, she'll fight for it. In my beta days I tried to put the relationship on my shoulders and the way that I got over it is I decided to create a moment of truth. There came a time where I just stopped rationalizing everyhing she did as a "sign" that she wants to make it work. What I did was I went right to forcing her to reveal her cards. In this case youd reveal how committed she is towards counseling. I think this would be the most intimidating moment for you because when you tell her your conditions for support, you'll see her answer. After that point you'll start to be free.

                            [–]Kepaso 3 points4 points  (7 children)

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                            you are in the inferior position. You put your wife on a pedestal in a position never seen in this world, yet we see that she is nagging, cold, frigid, not loving you, have mental issues and a big pain in the ass. You see where i'm going with this? Your wife sucks and she would be a burden for any regular guy going out with her.Yet somehow you manage to get in the inferior position in the couple even with all her horrible baggage, that's why you have been crowned king of the betas. You must really suck at relationships to be in this position, i'm not Freud maybe you have a affection problem to always trying to get validation from her?

                            So yeah, here's my tip : you say she's 8 (from your point of view, who knows what she really look like IRL) but who cares at this point! Better have a 6 point good girl that will repect you than a cold crazy 8.

                            [–]myrpaccount 2 points3 points  (2 children)

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                            She is no way an 8. She's a drug addict on Fentanyl and a host of other drugs. When is the last time you saw a drug addict that was an 8? It doesn't exist at least for me. I'd say she loses 3 points for that alone so the best she would be is a 7 and that's if she looked like Kate Upton. She's probably a 5 at best that has yet to come to that realization because he has put her on a pedestal.

                            [–]Kepaso 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                            yes that's what i thought, he s idealizing her and it would surprise me that she would be a real 8. Anyway, that's why i said some harsh truths about her , so he can see that she s loosing points just being drug addict and crazy, he should be the prize tolerating her.

                            [–]sweetleef 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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                            You must really suck at relationships to be in this position,

                            There's a lifetime of history that landed him in this spot: pop media and school indoctrination, instinctual pressure to care for family, insecurities, parental issues, how role models formed his perspectives when young, maybe affection or attachment issues like you said, etc., etc.

                            But we're all human, we all have areas that need improvement, and it's good to see that King Beta has woken up to his situation and has a desire to change it.

                            [–]Kepaso 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                            all true. It wouldn't surprise if he did the same things to his wife to people in general, aka getting validation and wanting to being liked. That's the Nice Guy syndrome, and it's tuff to get rid of this.

                            [–]worms_to_mooch_sex 5 points6 points  (1 child)

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                            man o man. i just got out of a relationship like that. me being like a 6, with a cold crazy 8.

                            and you know what before that, well not right before but long ago, i had a pretty long relationship where i was a mini version of what happened to this guy. just enabling a girl to be more and more useless and less and less attracted to me over the course of like 6-7 yrs.

                            that being said this guy sounds a lot more of a catch than me. he's a fucking provider, he should be confident as fuck because it doesn't matter if you're a 6 man, you're a provider, ur security, ur the land these rafts are looking for. don't say you're a 6 because you have proven your endurance, your loyalty, and you have a real future lined up. you're the 8, she's the 6.

                            that being said yeah "bad at relationships" is what drove this into the gutter it sounds like. it's a shame that "bad at relationships" can drive a truck so far off track for so many years but there you go.

                            i don't think he is king of betas at all he just grew into a blue pill role pushed to the extreme. it's hard to change what you've grown into, it's almost like how when you visit your parents you can't help acting how you did when you were younger getting in to the same fights somewhat. that shit is hard to change and his marriage is so deep it's going to be that level to change.

                            [–]Kepaso 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                            thats right he should switch and be the prize, but that s hard when you are conditionned. the right way would to divorce her and start fresh, but he doesnt want that.

                            [–]RPthrowaway123 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                            Glad to see you want to to turn it around! Here are my tips:

                            1. Work on yourself first. Go to the gym. Read a lot (I recommend the book No More Mr. Nice Guy!). Learn something new and cool - anything from a new hobby to just learning how to take the remote apart and put it back together again. Find something to do that you enjoy and go do it!
                            2. Don't rely on anyone else for validation. Especially not your wife. You should feel good because you are good - not because someone else told you so!
                            3. Make her work for you. It can be difficult to establish this frame of mind, especially at first, but you have to start viewing yourself as someone desirable. She should be lucky just to be around you!

                            [–]Evers89 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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                            I read your story along with the rest last night. Intriguing you came here. I am glad though because if anything, this sub will give you cold, honest and helpful answers. The drawback is that it'll probably hurt. The feel good bullshit from ask relationships has no place here and I think it's garbage that they hailed you a rapist in their delusion.

                            To my suggestion. MMSL is a great site for someone in your position. If you're on the primer then you know it follows a step by step plan. I like this idea because it means that in order for you to fix anything, there's a path you have to go down first.

                            As far as others saying that you should just bail, it's not a bad idea at this point. However, that being said, I spent some time going through his posts at his site when I first learned of the manosphere. I remember reading a couple of marriages that put the male back in his place when they were just as shot as yours.

                            Finally, going off your recent update, this is progress, although just slight. At some point you'll need to make stronger shows of assertion than yelling at her. She's not gonna buy that anymore. It won't change overnight if it does indeed change, but it's a good start.

                            Note: I know I have zero experience with marriage and I'm probably younger than you are, but this is just how I've learned to conduct myself in dealings with women and I'm passing this onto you.

                            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                            You're not a beta for trying to salvage your marriage. You're a bit naive for letting things drag on as long as it has, but the difference between the Beta and being merely naive, is that the beta has no interest or intention of leading. That's clearly not you. The beta would have thrown up their hands and filed for divorce already since it's the path of least resistance.

                            Being perfectly honest it sounds like your wife- based on the whole "never leaves the house, barely even leaves the bed" thing- is generally not so much depressed as world weary. She's 30-something, done the family thing for some years now, and it probably hit her like a bag of bricks that she had no idea how she got there, or where she's going. This is of course based on what I've seen. You see all types when you spend enough time on the internet, as it were. That "gotta have it all!" attitude we're all fed these days caught up to her, and frankly it doesn't surprise me that she's kinda like a car engine that just refuses to turn. All the gas in the world wont make that engine go if you don't take the time to take it apart and rebuild it.

                            You ever consider pushing her in a positive direction? Because what she- and the latter part of this applies to you as well- needs isn't a jar of pills, its a sense of agency. Push her to do something that has a clear starting point, and end goal. Learn a language, visit the country. Take classes, get a degree. Learn an instrument. Learn how to cook something new. Paint a room. I don't know. The key here is that she needs to come to this herself. The alternative is you enabling her syndrome and dancing to her tune. That needs to stop. She had to have had hobbies at one point, start there. Just remember, no one ever found happiness at the bottom of a bottle, or a jar, or sitting around in their room all day long. Maybe it's fortunate for me that doing those sorts of things just feels like I'm pumping venom through my veins, but apparently some people can do it for a prolonged stretch of time.

                            As for you? You need to reintroduce the sales pitch. You don't need the marriage, she needs to sell you on it. As long as the deal remains equitable, the marriage is sound. The problem is that it sounds like she can't even begin to do that because she's got a few screws loose. The screws can be refastened, but before you do that, there's going to be obvious gaping holes in her ego (personality.)

                            And if the first law of business is that the customer is always right, the second law is that the customer's also a dog that doesn't even know what's in it's own best interest. I'm not saying you're holier than thou art, and incapable of doing wrong, but at the moment the problem ain't you, so far as you've communicated. It's her failure to reciprocate. Being frank it sounds like she's lacking for a sense of agency, which both keeps things simple, but that doesn't make the solution simple. It just means you can't pill the problem away. Whatever she used to measure her self worth is either gone or depriciated. She needs to fix that, but that doesn't mean you can't help her along. And no, this has nothing to do with being a doormat. Anything that was ever worth doing was also hard for a reason.

                            Whether you help her get to that point, or leave her to her own means has little to do with red pill, TBH, its more about your core being. Marriage is a relationship rooted in reciprocation, but no one really wrote the book on what happens when you can't get to that point. You're not at the point where you can even broach the subject of stabilizing your marriage.

                            [–]1RXRob -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                            She is not your only option. I don't mean that you should cheat, I don't mean that you should start gaming other women. I mean that being single is not a negative thing. Let it be known that she's not your only option to being happy with your life (if you call your current situation happy).

                            Do what you want to do. Does she want to go clothes shopping? That's fine, but she doesn't need you to go with her. Let her go shopping whilst you kick back with a beer and sports on TV, or go hiking, or work out, or read a book in the garden, or work on your car. Do what what the fuck you want, you work hard so you have the money to have the free time so you should enjoy it.

                            The first thing on your mind should be to make yourself happy. Luckily this normally makes family happy by proxy.

                            [–]mbr902000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                            Throw in the towel brother. You have been beta forever and that is all she knows you as. She knows how to push you around and even if you act as if there will be consequences, she will keep pushing you like a child pushes their parent. I am divorced with 2 little kids, they are extremely happy as they get split time between the 2 of us. Move on, keep the relationship friendly with the (ex) wife, and get yourself a shitload of plates. Do not get married again. The end

                            [–]Doomsday_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                            Have an affair and make sure your wife finds out.

                            [–]TooTurnt -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                            This may get downvoted, but the best thing you can do is start pursuing other women. You don't have to fuck them, but you definitely need to get back in the hunt if you want real self-confidence. Obviously be very discreet, but once you start seeing some success with other women your wife will sense it and jump all over your dick. Worst case scenario, you aren't a deer in headlights when the probable divorce comes about. YOU need to know, deep inside, that you can find other women, and that only comes from experience. That's my 2 cents. Good luck, hope everything works out, you seem like a solid guy in a shitty situation.

                            [–]TomCollins7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                            As a negotiator, I can tell you that the reason she did not react to your drastic revelations or threats in therapy is because she believes you will not follow through with them or if you do, it is of little consequence to her.

                            Her behavior strongly indicates that you lack any sort of leverage here.

                            [–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                            You're looking at your relationship from a false dichotomy; either work things out with your wife or break it off and divorce. Truthfully, there may not be any option to reconcile with your wife. Your marriage already sounds like it's over, with you just going into death throes.

                            Stand up for yourself. You're a fucking man. You have boundaries, and limits. You set these boundaries up with the understanding that these boundaries will not be crossed, or else you will walk. If she is not even willing to work with you to give you your basic dignity, then she's already checked of the marriage. There is no marriage to save here -- she has already made the decision to be apart from you. How you be with someone who despises your character?

                            You need to start taking care of you. Don't let someone else decide whether or not you're allowed to be happy.

                            [–]FeelingSassy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                            1. She is more than likely cheating on you or is about to... sexting? really? These things are like icebergs what you actually only see is just the tip of it - and believe me she aint getting just the 'tip'.

                            2. She is making you feel like shit because she wants an excuse to be the victim in this situation. YOU leave her, it's your fault, what an asshole, no wonder im needing another guy to fuck me. YOU dont leave her, this guy is a pathetic door mat, yuck so unattractive I need a real man.

                            3. People if they have said it already are right this is all your fault. She is in a depressing subconsciously dysfunctional relationship were her needs are pandered too, but isnt with someone that she respects as an EQUAL. You have failed to maintain her respect for you. You have failed to treat her as a equal and partner instead you have treated her like a master.

                            4. You cant expect others to respect or admire you if you dont think it yourself. You really need to start thinking for yourself, be more realistically selfish, get her off her moping arse, you realise that this is cyclic? you do EVERYTHING for her and it gives her more time to get deeper into into this shite. You dont have to go from one extreme to the other just enough to get her moving about.

                            The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over and expecting a different result. Read the sidebars, improve yourself, dont pander exclusively to her needs. Affect change. One problem with the TRP is people who imbrace it after having a revelation about how it all works, they go right off into the deepend and go extreme, you really dont need to. Just adjust, take an even keel and become the man your partner needs you to be, not wants you to be - that clearly is NOT working out so far....

                            [–]Nerian99 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                            You need to stop all self deprecation.

                            [–]tedcase -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                            Once you have lost respect, It is nearly impossible to get it back.

                            [–]MasterGolbez -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

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                            If she won't go with you to couples counseling and put in an honest effort, you need to let her go. Divorce isn't ideal for children but neither is having married parents who hate each other.

                            [–]Always_posts_serious 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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                            One may argue that divorce is better since the kid will see their weird interactions and absorb them into his idea of what love looks like.

                            [–]BigBlackClock -1 points0 points  (2 children)

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                            I have some oddly specific advice for you: take up salsa dancing.

                            Start going to salsa dance classes. It is not unusual to see married people dancing without their spouses. Tell your wife you want to learn a new skill, and have a social hobby to fill your time.

                            Work at it and get really good. You will suck at first but keep at it and before long, you will start to improve. You might actually start to like it. In dancing, the man is the leader. The man determines how the dance plays out. The woman, as the follower, is the submissive one, and literally, follows your lead. This will increase your confidence around women.

                            This hobby will put you around many new people, including many attractive young women. Don't hit on the women. Be friendly, but don't get to close and for god's sake, DEFINITELY don't develop a crush on any of them. Keep them at arm's length. Because you are becoming a very good dancer, they will want to dance with you. And because you have proven yourself to not be after them sexually, they will see you as a mystery, or a mountain to be conquered. and want to dance with you even more. Your self esteem will start to increase, and your confidence will increase even more.

                            Your wife will react one of two ways: 1) she will become jealous of your new hobby and your new friends and will step up her game. She will be competing with young lovelies who know how to move their bodies. She will realize that sooner or later, one of these girls might turn your head. Her position is weakened and she knows it and the only way to hold onto whatever is left in this relationship is to learn how to seduce you again. Or... 2) She will join you in your new hobby. Sure, you will still dance with lots of partners (both of you will) but it will be a hobby you can do together, something you have in common, which seems to be lacking in your relationship right now.

                            Only good things will come from this, I promise. I've been in the same boat, more or less, and dancing saved our marriage.

                            [–]Gyrolin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                            This isn't a bad place to start. It's actually a good way to start spinning plates discretely.