all 125 comments

[–]TP_2 40 points41 points  (10 children)

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Its funny how women bitch about macho culture and men not showing emotion when they are the ones that created it...

If a man breaks down in tears at work because his life is hard or whatever the following happens: he loses his job, his wife divorces him, he get diagnosed with depression and will not be able to get another job, and the final nail in his coffin is when he loses his children because of his depression.

If a woman breaks down in tears at work because her life is hard the following happens: she takes a sick day and comes back tomorrow.

For men the only real treatment for depression is stoicism, because we know how we will be treated if it is made clear that we are depressed. Ultimately men realize that showing signs of weakness lowers their social value, because women do not value weak men (and hence men do not either).

[–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 18 points19 points  (0 children)

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This is exactly it. On the surface this article just seems like another shit test. Let the weak men cry so that the strong ones can be easier sorted out.

Women have absolutely no sympathy for weak men. When they imagine nurturing a "weak" man, they're likely picturing a high status alpha crying.

[–]HesSoPringles 0 points1 point  (7 children)

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If a man breaks down in tears at work because his life is hard or whatever the following happens: he loses his job, his wife divorces him, he get diagnosed with depression and will not be able to get another job, and the final nail in his coffin is when he loses his children because of his depression.

Dude do you work in a fucking sweatshop, or on a professional football team? How the fuck would having a breakdown at work lead to all of that shit? How does a depression diagnosis lead to future unemployment? It's not like any civilized country can barr you from working if you have depression. If you have a breakdown and everyone in your life abandons you, then you should blame yourself for surrounding yourself with shitheads. You cant blame women for that.

Shit, I worked in a pizza store and one of our drivers had a breakdown like what you describe because his dog died, he failed a class and got stiffed on two tips. We gave him some pizza, let him smoke a cig, and he was right as rain. His girlfriend didn't dump him either.

There's a difference between showing some weakness when you're struggling and being a huge pussy.

[–]TP_2 15 points16 points  (6 children)

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Well its good to know that mental incompetency wont be held against me if I choose a career as a pizza delivery man.

And yes, I do know of men who lost their jobs and families because of breakdowns. And women do not respect that shit at all, and will bail on you at the speed of light.

[–][deleted]  (5 children)

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    [–]TP_2 2 points3 points  (4 children)

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    You're right, totally not a real job.

    It's a job, not a career, hence losing it wouldnt mean much anyhow. Sorry, this is reality, me stating that this is reality, doesn't mean I'm demeaning those individuals, nice deflection though. /backatya

    [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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      [–]TP_2 2 points3 points  (2 children)

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      You seem to be purposefully confusing what I'm saying here about pizza delivery men.

      Pizza delivery men are people, with unique values just like all the rest of us. They have value.

      A pizza delivery job does not typically pay well from my understanding, most likely start at or near minimum wage. Hence a pizza delivery job has NO VALUE. Because it has no value, losing it means nothing other than there will be a need to replace it probably with another job that has little to no value. Because of this, it is a shitty example of what seems to be the exception to what I stated.

      Did I exaggerate? Yes, I did. The way a man showing weakness at this level manifests itself will not always result in these things. But it will have a direct impact on all of these things. Are they going to promote the guy who cries at work because he had a bad day to manager? Are they going to give him the best raise? Sure, maybe his girlfriend wont leave him right then and there, as this may not be the last straw, but will she secretly wish she had a man who was more steadfast?

      Your anecdotal evidence was a shit way of responding to my hypothetical that obviously points to the worst case and not all cases. You took my interpretation as literal and absolute because you are an internet fukwad who likes starting bs arguments about pretty much nothing. And you cling to exceptions as rules rather seeking to clarify the extent to which a generalization can be taken.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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        Settle down fellas! Your starting to behave like..well....almost like women with all your bitching!

        I think both of you have valid opinions and both of you have exaggerated to some extent - which isn't helping anyone's argument! Agree to disagree to some extent! And if the exaggeration was toned down a touch i think that perhaps you guys might find you are far more in agreement than you would otherwise expect.

        [–]Endorsed ContributorDoxasticPoo 24 points25 points  (0 children)

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        And here in the US... "Almost four times as many males as females die by suicide."

        http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/suicide-in-the-us-statistics-and-prevention/index.shtml#risk

        [–]12FAM0US 154 points155 points  (29 children)

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        men are problem solvers, sometimes taken to the extreme. if a woman hates her life she will complain until her daddy/husband/son does something about it. if a man hates his life he will eliminate the problem at its root. women say, men do.

        [–]fillmoreslimisback 49 points50 points  (21 children)

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        People commit suicide when they feel that their life has no worth or value.

        The modern world today is set up in a way that it is very very easy for a man to reach this conclusion. It'll even affect men who actually have value to reach the conclusion that he doesn't("man up", "why aren't you married yet?","Creep")

        It's set up the opposite for women. The world is made to actually get a worthless woman to feel really great about herself.

        [–]TheCastle 17 points18 points  (20 children)

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        Layoffs pretty much put me in this boat. My personal value went from pretty awesome to next to worthless to a point its difficult to fathom. My self worth feels so low at this point I can see being maybe one or two good steps(lose my car or PC) from just saying fuck it.

        [–]InsanityManifest 19 points20 points  (19 children)

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        I've been there.

        I found a crew of decent guys that were in the same boat, we all banded together to help each other. It works, somehow.

        Don't give up. If you're still breathing, you still have a chance to make things better.

        [–]TheCastle 4 points5 points  (17 children)

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        I hear ya, and I agree. I think in a way I am just being a baby, this would be easier if I didn't have so much pride. The point about hitting this state easily resonated with me enough to post though. It was pretty easy for me and it happened pretty suddenly. I had a good status too, pretty happy and comfortable making good money hanging out with musicians going to shows doing what I love to do. Bam, just like that here I am. I explained I wouldn't even be angry with my girl if she wanted to leave, this is pretty pathetic, no hard feelings at all. Even if I did decide to solve the problem she kinda hinted she would too and that scares me a bit. I just wish I had some fucking clue how to dig myself out of this. I just need an angle or something to work with. My luck isn't improving much either...

        [–]heist_of_saint_graft 2 points3 points  (16 children)

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        Where do you live and how old are you?

        [–]TheCastle 4 points5 points  (15 children)

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        35 currently crashing in OKC

        edit: For clarity I am not seeking sympathy or even saying I intend to do anything that rash. My point is its crossed my mind enough times to take note.

        [–]heist_of_saint_graft 4 points5 points  (13 children)

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        I understand. Can you get out of town? If you're able-bodied you should be able to find work up a ways in the Dakotas. Why not get out there and sweat out the problems? Come back when you've changed your fortune a bit and have a fresh attitude.

        [–]TheCastle 1 point2 points  (12 children)

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        Can you explain more about work in the Dakotas?

        [–]heist_of_saint_graft 4 points5 points  (11 children)

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        The oil boom happening up there. I have no idea how one would go about getting hired, but there apparently jobs for hard-working guys, both in the fields and in ancillary industries (drivers, etc.) Start Googling, ask around.

        [–]bigbuzd1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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        I feel ya man...same boat here.

        [–]RockinRhombus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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        I found a crew of decent guys that were in the same boat, we all banded together to help each other. It works, somehow.

        Fuckin' A. Same story. This group of guys have become the best friends I've ever had. We're all slowly getting our shit back together, from rock bottom.

        Men are born out of adversity, and strong bonds through shared experiences.

        [–]DaedalusFinch 14 points15 points  (0 children)

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        Excellently put.

        There's a study that comes up here once in a while which basically says that men are more likely to attempt suicide through more reliable methods (bridge, noose, gun) while women are more prone to "cry for help" methods (pills, cutting). I think this ties in neatly with what you're suggesting in that the end goals of the attempts generally differ between each gender.

        [–]meowlolcats 20 points21 points  (3 children)

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        "While females tend to show higher rates of reported nonfatal suicidal behavior, males have a much higher rate of completed suicide."

        More from wikipedia:

        "Male gender roles tend to emphasize greater levels of strength, independence, and risk-taking behavior.[8] Reinforcement of this gender role often prevents males from seeking help for suicidal feelings and depression.[9]

        "Numerous other factors have been put forward as the cause of the gender paradox. Part of the gap may be explained by heightened levels of stress that result from traditional gender roles. For example, death of a spouse and divorce are risk factors for suicide in both genders, but the effect is somewhat mitigated for females.[10] In the Western world, females are more likely to maintain social and familial connections that they can turn to for support after losing their spouse.[10] Another factor closely tied to gender roles is employment status. Males' vulnerability may be heightened during times of unemployment because of gendered expectations that males should provide for themselves and their families.[9]

        It has been noted that the gender gap is less stark, though still present, in developing nations. One theory put forward for the smaller gap is the increased burden of motherhood due to cultural norms. In regions where the identity of females is constructed around the family, having young children may correlate with lower risks for suicide.[8] At the same time, stigma attached to infertility or having children outside of marriage can contribute to higher rates of suicide among women.[11]

        In 2003, a group of sociologists examined the gender and suicide gap by considering how cultural factors impacted suicide rates. The four cultural factors; power-difference, individualism, uncertainty avoidance, and masculinity, were measured for 66 countries using data from the World Health Organization.[12] Cultural beliefs regarding individualism were most closely tied to the gender gap; countries that placed a higher value on individualism showed higher rates of male suicide. Power-difference, defined as the social separation of people based on finances or status, was a negative correlate to suicide, however countries with high levels of power-difference had higher rates of female suicide.[12] The study ultimately found that stabilizing cultural factors had a stronger effect on suicide rates for women than men.[12]"

        [–]JoshtheAspie 9 points10 points  (0 children)

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        Suicide and Domestic Violence display differences between the sexes quite similarly. Women are more likely to start it, men are more likely to finish it.

        [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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        simplified: women behave suicidally for attention and validation, similar to all of their behavior.

        men behave suicidally because their logic dictates that they can't tolerate living anymore and feel a need to find peace, through death.

        [–]Dreamtrain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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        And then, when a man finds himself convinced he cannot find a solution to the problem, that's when it happens.

        [–]atacms 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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        This has some truth behind it, recently I was reading over a study on suicides and the differences between men and women.

        Women have far more attempts but are far less successful main method is overdose on Tyenol.

        Men have less attempts but are far more successful. Main methods are self inflicting gunshot wounds.

        [–]FrostyGoingHisOwnWay 50 points51 points  (3 children)

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        I think that it's the extreme circumstances in which people take their lives, if you're kicked to the curb, lose your house, told you cannot see your child, stuck with years of paying child support to a mother who you know is spending it on herself and her new man living in the house you paid for...it's those kind of tornado of events that lead men to taking their own lives.

        You either need to bring down an entire persons world, or you need to corner someone and leave them no recourse, these are things that happen to men when vile and disgusting women decide to ruin their lives by abusing Blue Pill court systems and laws.

        My old man tried to kill himself, he nearly managed it except the fire department cut open the garage door and dragged him from a fume filled room to hospital.

        Facing losing everything he'd worked for, the family he built, the savings he'd made, his children...it's just too much to bring crashing down on someone, it's like a bad nightmare, the way men are treated by family courts and in the law is absolutely disgusting.

        [–]-RobotDeathSquad- 10 points11 points  (2 children)

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        What did you do after the attempt? Was it because of a looming divorce? What is your relationship with your mom after this event?

        [–]FrostyGoingHisOwnWay 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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        I was 11 at the time and didn't really know much about what was going on other than the aftermath, the split etc. Parents were unhappy for a long time it seems.

        I ended up living with my mom growing up, my father made attempts to "steal" his children back, I was old enough that my mom convinced me that he only wanted the children to spite her, In the end I lived with my mom while my younger brother and sister stayed with him.

        It wasn't until I grew up later on did I realize that my dad probably wasn't the evil guy my mom made him out to be, I really didn't like my mom in the end she ended up putting all 3 children into foster care for a time, and I've just never felt close to her growing up, the best thing she ever did for me was encouraging me to get to school/college/uni and make something of myself, which I've done, looking back on my family I just don't want to have anything to do with them, deeply dysfunction people.

        Not only has it left me not wanting family, but its even deeper than that, I don't even really want to continue this dysfunction, I know its a part of me, genetically from my parents and mentally from growing up the way I did and it's just time to end it. I refuse to raise a child, they deserve better than to grow up through that shit.

        [–]sd4c 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        No sir, it is men like you that we need reproducing. To dilute the chaff in the water with some finer stock.

        Reconsider.

        [–]19 Endorsed Contributordrrrrrr 44 points45 points  (6 children)

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        Macho culture saved my life. Back in the 90s growing up, the BP delusion was reaching critical mass. It was at a point where even if we as a country tried to change our values, it just wouldn't work because of how the 90s economic boom ran off of very BP mentalities. Hurry up and wife up that post wall hamster, buy a house, buy a car, buy designer clothes to be cool, buy these penny stocks to be rich tomorrow, serve the good of society, not yourself. The Clinton era was a golden age, but gold ages produce weak, beta men because they don't face as much hardship.

        I grew up in a poor urban area, filled with Dominicans, Jamaicans, and your normal inner city stereotypes. They had their own share of problems and in many ways, it was a shitty place to live, but macho culture was strong as fuck. We had terms for "beta bucks", we had terms of homeboys who had to lick pussy because otherwise bitches wouldn't fuck with them. My dad made me go out for the wrestling team - some of these motherfuckers looked like they were 19 in middle school, I got my ass kicked. My worst fear was to be the guy on the bottom of the totem pole, and I withdrew into depression / typical high school bitch shit.

        Then I realized what everyone had been trying to teach me. They were saying, homie, if you don't learn how to not be a bitch ass pussy NOW, then you are fucked for life. The hardness of macho culture and the idea that you're only a man if you can handle your shit... wanted the best for me. The city didn't want to send me off to college as a punk pussy, it wanted to send me off as a man, or kill me right then are there.

        Is macho culture flawed? Yes. It's fucked up how gangs will play off of it to manipulate impressionable teenagers to piss away their lifes. There's plenty of problems with macho culture. But until we overhaul how public education works and we are allowed to bring up the topic of "teaching boys effective values" in society without having to make it about women, you will have guys relying on the stereotypes of what works. I think it's kinda fucked up that at 13 I thought it would be so cool to be a drug-dealing, pimp-slapping, gun-busting criminal because these were the "alphas" of my youth, but what else can you do? My whole life up until that point had basically been a dump-fest of public school making me feel worthless for being a guy, and BP values screwing me out of everything I wanted. Macho culture isn't necessarily the values we need or deserve - but it sure as hell can save you from becoming a bitch.

        [–]ovrskr 8 points9 points  (0 children)

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        Joe Rogan got into marial arts because of shit like this. My impression is that such advice to 'suck it up bitch' is just the perpetual circle of bullies creating more bullies.

        what you want around is empathic people with huge muscles to defend us all from bullshit

        [–]MartialWay 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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        Thanks, great post.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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        In an impoverished environment the only way for males to set themselves apart of the rest of the pack is via gangs, violence, and drugs. The sexual strategy they are pursuing is one of vastly shorter lifespan, but more sex, money, and partying. The social status bump is a big draw for young men without many opportunities or in some cases, aptitude.

        [–]MajorasAss 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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        Macho culture saved my life.

        Tell that to the veterans who kill themselves because they can't talk about their PTSD, because talking about feelings in the military is "gay"

        [–]19 Endorsed Contributordrrrrrr 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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        "Is macho culture flawed? Yes."

        Reading is useful.

        [–]MajorasAss 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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        I read it, and I agree with some of it, but it seems you're presenting it as the best social option men have nowadays, in every situation. That's what I disagree with

        [–]Ironhigh 53 points54 points  (5 children)

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        50% of the entire population is not going to help you nor carry you in a situation of need.

        If you hit the rock bottom and you don't have any male friends to help you, you're done with life.

        around 75% of the homeless population are men, in multiple countries.

        stop telling males to "man up", and start showing them that grown men do actually cry.

        Good thing we have this feminist mentality in our society, even the highest suicide rate among men are men's fault.

        The irony is, the suicide rate of women is low because men help them in every period of their lives.

        [–]1PaulRivers10 21 points22 points  (3 children)

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        You know, it's not really not women won't help that pisses me off as much as how they'll attack you for having male friends who would help if you ever got in that situation.

        Have male friends you share enthusiasm for something with? "bromance". Going out with your guy friends when you have a girlfriend? "omg all my girlfriends agree it makes me uncomfortable so you should stop doing it". You have a regular guy night with only guys and no girls there? She will actively try to come up with manipulative ways to get you to start missing it (to be fair here, I mean some women will not all).

        [–]-RobotDeathSquad- 15 points16 points  (1 child)

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        I dumped my ex after being red pill for a while and it was because she started doing those little manipulations to try and stop me from hanging out with my friends.

        [–]happyhorse_g 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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        Could you elaborate if you've got time?

        I have many friends in their late 20s early 30s who are in the lady trap, and can't seem to love it enough. What were her tactics? what were her goals do you think? And did you confront her about it?

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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        And if you don't have lots of male friends and end up spending time with her, she'll have you marked down as useless. The paradox of effectively denying a man a male support network, but being turned off by a man she sees as weak and helpless.

        [–]FearlessBurrito 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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        Crying won't get your home back, so this advice is pretty much useless.

        [–][deleted]  (25 children)

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        [deleted]

          [–]Dark triad expert: - http://illimitablemen.com/ - [3 Points]IllimitableMan[S] 15 points16 points  (7 children)

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          Having the mentality that these people did it because they are "weak" or didn't "man up" is quite frankly an over simplification at best and disgustingly ignorant of mental health issues at worse.

          I agree, there are US medical published studies which show young boys raised by single mothers are more likely to suffer from behavioural disorders and mental illness.

          What facilitates single motherhood? The welfare state. What is much expansion of the welfare state a product of? Feminism. What made women think raising boys without fathers was a good idea, and allowed it to be socially acceptable? The sexual revolution aka feminism.

          The correlation may not always be completely direct, but I think a lot of you fail to realise just how much power they have as well as the amount of influence they've attained and the damage they've done with that influence in the short space of 50 years. Feminism is a society destroyer, increased prevalence of mental illness and suicide are merely symptomatic of a very large equation in what amounts to a degenerating society.

          TLDR: Destroy the family unit and you fuck people up, they're going to get mentally ill, some will kill themselves.

          [–][deleted]  (4 children)

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            [–]Dark triad expert: - http://illimitablemen.com/ - [3 Points]IllimitableMan[S] 11 points12 points  (3 children)

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            I agree with you, although I'm getting a little tired of saying "I believe its responsible for helping to increase male suicide, not the sole cause of increasing it."

            Next person who tells me "it's not just feminism" is going to get ignored, I know that. Feminism has a huge part to play though, downplaying it in diversity is silly when the ideology has a knock on effect in many areas by attacking the foundation of the family unit itself.

            [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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            [deleted]

              [–]Dark triad expert: - http://illimitablemen.com/ - [3 Points]IllimitableMan[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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              you would be instantly ostracized from the mental health field.

              Yeah, shit ton of politics in academia, especially in social science fields.

              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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              Feminism didn't expand the welfare state, the opportunity provided by women joining the workforce and practically doubling it during the World War production period wasn't Feminism, it was Nationalism. Nationalism supported this increase in the workforce and the increase of working class had the natural consequence of desire for increased benefits for the working class. The shitty excuse for a welfare state America has is much more attributed to the population structure of the classes than the social movements it experienced in the 60's an 70's.

              [–]Dark triad expert: - http://illimitablemen.com/ - [3 Points]IllimitableMan[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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              Feminism didn't expand the welfare state, the opportunity provided by women joining the workforce and practically doubling it during the World War production period wasn't Feminism, it was Nationalism.

              Agreed.

              Nationalism supported this increase in the workforce and the increase of working class had the natural consequence of desire for increased benefits for the working class.

              Agreed somewhat, also, to win votes... some people will always vote leftist.. immigrants, single mothers etc. It's a mixed issue, but there is such a thing as "the feminist vote."

              The shitty excuse for a welfare state America has is much more attributed to the population structure of the classes than the social movements it experienced in the 60's an 70's.

              Perhaps in its inception, I could agree, but nationalism isn't a suitable reason for maintaining that status quo. You neglect to mention what happened after the war when all the men returned home, furthermore, America entered the war very late and was not a major player, it was Americas reticence to get involved too heavily in WW2 that allows it to remain a superpower today whilst the superpower empires of Europe destroyed each other.

              Anyway, good post. To sum up, feminism wasn't the cause, I agree, but it can be used to secure most of the female vote in the contemporary who are pro free-shit in the post nuclear family single mother epidemic. Just look at your health insurance recently under obama's administration, now the women who use health care more pay the same as men as it was "discrimination", yes.. using a service more means you are discriminated... for being a woman? No, for using the service more. Let's disregard that logic though. Thanks feminism. It's not exactly a welfare state issue as you pay for insurance out of your own pocket, but the policy serves the same effect, it's socialist interventionist protectionism that essentially removes the free market element of health insurance by enforcing a federally sanctioned egalitarian element into the mix. Now insurance companies have to be less competitive to half the population base just so that women can get a slight price reduction for services they used more anyway. Fucking ridiculous, anyhow, I've digressed.

              [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children)

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              Most people think that suicide is a direct result of depression, while this is true in many cases depression is only one thing that contributes to suicide. People usually either forget about or completely ignore mental illness and mental disorders.

              Oh yeah obviously so if they have mental illness that means they're not depressed. And are you telling me that more men are mentally ill?

              Now the question is why is there a higher rate of male suicide compared to females? unfortunately this is really really hard (borderline impossible) to test. You can't separate attempted suicides that are cries of help from suicide attempts where the goal is to end your own life. The best we can really do is try and rationalize the problem.

              So if a guy shoves a gun to his temple and pulls the trigger, that's a cry for help? You'd think they would think of a more effective way of crying for help.

              A "cry for help suicide" tend to use much less effective methods for "suicide"(basically just pretending to try to kill themselves) which is why women fail at suicides more than men... Because men really do want to kill themselves.

              [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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              [deleted]

                [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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                You are trying to apply logic to people who aren't behaving or thinking logically. There are thousands of reasons why a person commits suicide, both males and females and you can't over simplify the issue because quite frankly human behaviour isn't so simple.

                Suicide isn't logical because said person is depressed(or mentally ill). The fact still remains that men are more successful at killing themselves(considerably more successful) which seems to confirm that they really indeed do want to kill themselves. There are "false positive" suicide attempts where the person has no intent to kill himself/herself but only wants the attention of "I just tried to kill myself please help me!" This is common and women are much more likely to do this for obvious reasons.

                People who REALLY want to kill themselves don't want help. At all. They just want to die.

                [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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                  [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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                      [–]vaker 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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                      Having the mentality that these people did it because they are "weak" or didn't "man up" is quite frankly an over simplification at best

                      Where was this said?

                      [–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 0 points1 point  (3 children)

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                      There was a study posted in this sub just a few days ago demonstrating how women suffer more mental illness than men. Despite this, male suicide is still much higher.

                      That would imply that the number if men killing themselves due to life circumstance is even higher.

                      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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                        [–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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                        Fair enough, hadn't considered that. Men also go to the doctor much less frequently than women.

                        [–]slimmsy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                        Which is really sad. A tad hypocritical of me though because when I get sick I tend to tough it out unless it gets to the point where extremely painful.

                        [–]MartialWay 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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                        You can't separate attempted suicides that are cries of help from suicide attempts where the goal is to end your own life.

                        You certainly can. The success rate will tell you all you need to know.

                        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                          [–]MartialWay 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                          In a research setting? how?

                          You add the people up. You figure out how many are dead, and how many are alive. The ratio is the best stat we've got about how serious they were about killing themselves.

                          [–]tobedwithoutsupper 4 points5 points  (6 children)

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                          Are football games really like that anymore? I've been told that they're nothing like they're used to be; but we were all Leeds fans so that might not be saying much.

                          [–]xandel434 4 points5 points  (4 children)

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                          They are still like that. When manchester city won the league over man u by beating QPR in the last minutes I cried my eyes out and so did thousands upon thousands of other men. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKF-thvlT6A if this isn't rae emotion I don't know what is.

                          [–]SeekingAlpha 0 points1 point  (3 children)

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                          That video gave me chills. I like soccer. I don't follow pro leagues. I've followed every World Cup since I was 9 years-old and attended several matches. Chills.

                          The highest echelon of sport consists of rare specimens with finely honed skills, often working together, going up against other rare specimens of (usually) comparable level. WHAT THE FUCK'S NOT TO LOVE!?

                          I guess some people just don't get it. Perhaps veneration of the strong and succesful isn't for everyone. I'm OK with that. Haters gonna hate. I've got nothing but love for your soap operas, celebutants and videogames. Play on, friends. ;)

                          [–]SpankingGlorious 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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                          Hooray. He's kicked the ball

                          Watching sports is just so Beta.

                          [–]SeekingAlpha 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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                          I too can make unsupported claims!

                          "Watching" anything, in that it is largely a passive activity that nets you little to no power, could be described as Beta if you really want to get down to it.

                          [–]SpankingGlorious 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                          That is certainly correct.

                          What i don't get is the bashing of Xbox+Pizza kids while seeing no problem in wasting time in front of the TV watching every damn game while drinking beer.

                          [–]happyhorse_g 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                          The tears ran dry for Leeds. Premier games, week to week are not. Perhaps if you team gets punted out of the champions league at the semi-finals, but generally no.

                          Lower rung football very much can be. Key ingredient are loyalty (to a team without much success), camaraderie (with pals, sons, daughters, stand-mates) week-in, week-out and healthy freedom for a few hours. Bliss

                          [–]LukeMooney 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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                          I saw this as well and wondered how the fuck it was written, I think it's to do with hiding in plain sight. Men are so routinely bashed and ignored, you don't even notice it, it's normal. The idea of saying men need more attention from society is so alien, even when that is the only logical conclusion, something else will be drawn to. Once you begin to see the constant misandry in media, you will never stop seeing it, all the walls turn green and black, and there is little bits of code everywhere.

                          youtube "manwomanmyth" for the most detailed, interesting and thought provoking explanation of misandry and related topics I have ever seen, FYI its made in the UK and predominantly about the UK, although it does transcend all/most westernised culture.

                          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                          They're great vidoes, although I will say he does make a connection too far at times. For instance in one video he cites breast cancer awareness month as a sign of misandry, yet there are prostate and testicular cancer awareness campaigns too. Generally though they are very thought-provoking.

                          [–]Only_A_Username 2 points3 points  (10 children)

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                          Just a reminder about context. More men COMPLETE suicide because they tend to go with violent means (gunshot to the head, jumping off a building, etc). Women attempt suicide more often, but usually don't end up killing themselves because they try to go the painless route (pills, shallow wrist cutting etc.)

                          I'm not saying one thing or the other or inputting my opinion in any way shape or form.

                          [–]meowlolcats 8 points9 points  (0 children)

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                          I think it's also that more women are at least subconsciously just making a cry for help while men are more likely to just straight up be trying to blow their brains out. You can try to connect that to women feeling more likely for society to take pity on them or something.

                          [–]2lightfire409 4 points5 points  (7 children)

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                          Do we have stats on attempted suicide?

                          [–]1PaulRivers10 11 points12 points  (6 children)

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                          Yeah, I'd like to see these statistics.

                          Even then there's also - frankly - the statistical problem of people who "attempt" to commit suicide but always do so in a way that means it won't actually work.

                          A man who blows his head off with a shotgun is often in a different situation than a woman who takes to many pills, knowing on some level that someone will stop her and take her to the hospital.

                          I mean - back in high school, I tried to commit suicide once at my lowest point. But it was by sitting outside until I froze to death. Guess what? Eventually it became to painful and I went inside. I never would have shot myself, because I knew how permanent that was.

                          [–]meowlolcats 3 points4 points  (5 children)

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                          "While females tend to show higher rates of reported nonfatal suicidal behavior, males have a much higher rate of completed suicide.

                          ...

                          The reported difference in suicide rates for males and females is partially a result of the methods used by each gender. Although females attempt suicide at a higher rate, they are more likely to use methods that are less immediately lethal. Males frequently complete suicide via high mortality actions such as hanging, carbon-monoxide poisoning, and firearms. This is in contrast to females, who tend to rely on drug overdosing.[13] While overdosing can be deadly, it is less immediate and therefore more likely to be caught before death occurs. In Europe, where the gender discrepancy is the greatest, a study found that the most frequent method of suicide among both genders was hanging, however the use of hanging was much higher in males (54.3%) than in females (35.6%). The same study found that the second most common methods were fire arms for men and poisoning for women.[14] Methods of suicide are frequently correlated with both with traditional gender roles and availability of different methods. Men are more likely than women to both use and own firearms, which could account for the higher rates of firearm death among males. In nations where firearms have been banned, there is a drop in male suicides via gun but no change in females.[8] Females may tend towards less lethal methods of suicide because of gendered ideas about attractiveness.[8][13]"

                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide

                          [–]TP_2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                          Lol, even in suicide there are gender differences... Yes, I'm talking to you Mr. Blank Slate We Are All Equal Theory...

                          [–]autowikibot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                          Gender differences in suicide:


                          Gender differences in suicide rates have been shown to be significant; there are highly asymmetric rates of attempted and completed suicide between males and females. The gap, also called the gender paradox of suicidal behavior, can vary significantly between different countries. Statistics indicate that males die much more often by means of suicide than do females; however, reported suicide attempts and thoughts are much more common among females than males.

                          Image i


                          Interesting: Suicide | Alcoholism | Sex differences in human psychology | Self-harm

                          Parent commenter can toggle NSFW or delete. Will also delete on comment score of -1 or less. | FAQs | Mods | Magic Words

                          [–]1PaulRivers10 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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                          Although females attempt suicide at a higher rate

                          Thanks for posting the link.

                          The next question after that is - what does that mean? Does that actually mean more women try to commit suicide? Or does "higher rate" equivalent to something like that men only try to commit suicide once or twice - because they're more successful, so after they're dead they don't keep trying, whereas women "try" a lot more because suicidal women live much longer to try it more often?

                          [–]meowlolcats 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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                          I said this somewhere else in this thread, but I think part of it is because more women are at least subconsciously just making a cry for help while men are more likely to just straight up be trying to blow their brains out. You can try to connect that to women feeling more likely for society to take pity on them or something.

                          [–]1PaulRivers10 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                          That's an interesting though, thanks.

                          I mean I'm not really happy about anyone feeling like they need to commit suicide. The irritation part is where it's tried to turn into this thing where men trying to kill themselves isn't a problem, whereas women being called "bossy" or something is important. Certainly not a fan of anyone of either gender reaching a point of feeling they need to kill themselves.

                          [–]aerial1981 2 points3 points  (9 children)

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                          And the reason for this is because men choose the violent bloody ways (gunshot, jumping off bridge, etc.), which is more effective then women's preference of a "painless" death by pills.

                          [–]isthatyourdaughter 33 points34 points  (6 children)

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                          Women's reality is social, men's is physical. I think men choose method of suicide based on its percieved efficiency, whereas women choose based on how people will react to it. #my2cents

                          [–]12FAM0US 18 points19 points  (3 children)

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                          how other people react to it

                          is key for women. look at all the unfortunate cases of unstable sluts offing themselves. they always leave a note or a youtube video. its an extreme plea for attention. for some of the craziest of the psychocunts, nothing will stop their quest to gain attention. not even death.

                          [–]UnclePuma 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                          Zombie Hamsters, mang

                          [–]HesSoPringles -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

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                          Yeah fucking sluts leaving notes and shit like most everyone who purposefully kills themselves does.

                          I would argue blowing your face off with a shotgun, jumping of a bridge, or hanging yourself for someone to find screams "look at me" more than OD'ing. Most suicides that are streamed over the internet are males.

                          Can't believe 15 people agreed with your dumb ass. This is slut-shaming dead people and boiling their suicides down to cries for attention.

                          [–]NoNotoriety 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                          Look at the stats on failed female suicides, they dwarf male ones. Clearly a cry for attention, if someone wants to actually kill themselves it isn't hard at all.

                          [–]vaker 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                          women choose based on how people will react to it

                          IMO they simply don't want to die, just get some help and attention. Men know they get neither.

                          [–]Ironhigh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                          [–]1PaulRivers10 9 points10 points  (1 child)

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                          That's not "the reason", despite how hard feminist try to spin this into it "it doesn't matter that 4 times as many men die, because hamster hamster I'm a woman so you're supposed to feel sorry for me and not care about men".

                          Women's "preferred" method also involves a lot of "she can be saved at the last minute". It also involves a lot of "oh, maybe someone will save me or it won't work!". Or "oops, I didn't take enough pills".

                          Perhaps the less-definite-outcome aspect of how women do it directly relates to their finding it easier to "attempt" suicide.

                          [–]MrsStrom 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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                          Personally, I won't shoot myself in the head because of how I'll look if I fuck it up and live. I will, however, slit my wrists. But I'll do it in the bath tub so there won't be a mess to clean up. Vanity.

                          [–]1 Endorsed Contributorjsl2837 1 point2 points  (4 children)

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                          I just happened to be looking through the statistics for Australia and found some interesting stuff.

                          The most interesting of all was this table here: http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/BN/2011-2012/Suicide#_Toc299625631

                          From that table, we can see that:

                          Historically, in Australia since 1921, the percentage of men in deaths by suicide has always fluctuated between 60% and 85%. The rise of feminism in the last few decades does not seem to have led to any rise in the percentage of male suicides in Australia.

                          I am willing to accept, for the sake of argument, that Australia is an isolated example. I should look at data from other so-called "blue pill" countries as well.

                          I am also open to the view, that perhaps Australia has been influenced by radical feminism to a much smaller extent than other countries, say Sweden or some parts of the USA.

                          Second point: Guns are illegal in Australia; and in the absence of guns, methods of suicide don't seem to differ much between the two sexes.

                          This seems to contradict the oft-recited RP point that women usually choose less effective methods of suicide. Again, I am willing to accept, for the sake of argument, that Australia is an isolated example.

                          http://www.mindframe-media.info/for-media/reporting-suicide/facts-and-stats

                          In 2011, 56% of male suicide deaths were by hanging, followed by 10% due to poisoning by agents other than drugs and then 9% due to poisoning by drugs. In 2011, hanging was the most common method of suicide used by females, constituting 48% of all female suicide deaths. The second most common cause of suicide death was poisoning by drugs (26% of suicide deaths).

                          Third point: Women in Australia deliberately injure themselves at a higher rate than men.

                          Source: http://www.mindframe-media.info/for-media/reporting-suicide/facts-and-stats

                          According to hospitals data, females are more likely to deliberately injure themselves than males. In the 2008-2009 financial year, 62% of those who were hospitalised due to self-harm were female.

                          For males and females, the highest rate of deliberate self-harm occurred for those aged from their teens to middle age. In 2008-2009, 73% of those who were hospitalised due to self-harm were aged between 15 and 44 years, with the highest rates observed in females aged 25-44 years (6,809 per 100,000 population). The same age group also had the highest hospitalisation rate in males (4,791 per 100,000 population).

                          Even though the rate of successful male suicides is about three times as high (~75% of total suicides in Australia):

                          http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/4125.0main+features3240Jan%202013

                          Of all deaths classified as suicide in 2010, over three-quarters (77%) were males (1,814), making suicide the 10th leading cause of death for males. Male suicide occurs at a much higher rate than that for females. In 2010, the age standardised male suicide rate was 16.4 deaths per 100,000 males compared to the female rate of 4.8 deaths per 100,000 females.

                          • It is also important to note that not all self-harm incidents were intended suicides; only the potentially fatal cases were likely to be intended suicides.

                          • Neither can we trivialize most self-harm attempts by women as half-assed cries for help until, as mentioned, we have looked at more precise data on said attempts (method used, motivation, etc).

                          Lastly, just to throw out some more numbers as food for thought:

                          From Section 2.9 of this report on hospitalizations (for 2008 and 2009):

                          Separations from hospital due to intentional self-harm (Male) = 10,209

                          Separations from hospital due to intentional self-harm (Female) = 16,726

                          Estimated cases with a high threat to life (Male) = 647 (6.7% of 10,209)

                          Estimated cases with a high threat to life (Female) = 423 (2.6% of 16,726)

                          And again, from this table of historical suicide figures for Australia:

                          Total male suicides in 2008 and 2009 = 1786+1633 = 3418

                          Total female suicides in 2008 and 2009 = 497+499 = 996

                          Combining the two sources:

                          Total high-threat self-harm incidents + suicides (Male) = 647+3418 = 4065

                          Total high-threat self-harm incidents + suicides (Female) = 423+996 = 1419

                          TLDR: I feel that the statistics on suicide in Australia seem to deviate from the populist RP view on this topic.

                          Yes, the total number of (suicides + potentially fatal self-harm incidents) seems to be much higher for men than for women, but it may be possible that this has always been the case historically, even before feminism gained widespread political momentum. The percentage of men amongst total suicides has always hovered between 60% and 85% in Australia since 1921 (source).

                          As shown in the numbers above, there were 16,726 cases of Australian females deliberately injuring themselves in 2008 and 2009, compared to 10,209 male cases. What could explain the greatly increased propensity for females to self-harm in non-fatal ways? (inb4 "feminism hurts women 2") This also begs the question, when did this trend begin?

                          It was fun to drill down into the statistics for a particular country, but we need data from other so-called "blue pill" countries too, in order to have a thorough answer to these questions.

                          [–]Dark triad expert: - http://illimitablemen.com/ - [3 Points]IllimitableMan[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                          The percentage of men amongst total suicides has always hovered between 60% and 85% in Australia since 1921

                          Think it could be related to the fact that Australia was founded out of a penal colony? The UK used to send all its criminals and crazies there after all, perhaps such people have a higher chance of killing themselves? It's quite fascinating, thanks for the post.

                          [–]1 Endorsed Contributorjsl2837 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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                          Interesting theory, but I don't know how true it is. :)

                          [–]Dark triad expert: - http://illimitablemen.com/ - [3 Points]IllimitableMan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                          Yeah, throwing it out there as a possibility, not actually trying to put any weight behind my own unsubstantiated ponderings.

                          I guess the bottom line is how much role does nature play when it comes to mental disorders/suicide and how relevant is mental disorder to the act of suicide? If nature played a significant role then sending off convicts off to an island where they all bred and passed on the genes for possessing disposition to psychiatric disorders would lead to a higher natural rate of suicide; subsequently reducing the pressures that culture would have on suicide as genetically they were already preselected to engage in such behaviour.

                          For those who can't tell, this is conjecture and in no way substantiated by anything.

                          [–]The-Doctor-94 -2 points-1 points  (16 children)

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                          Blaming feminism for the increase in male suicide is unhealthy. The key is to focus on the reasons that could be changed. Mainly: Lack of mental health institutions for men, and social stigma towards men showing emotions in front of others (mainly a stigma pushed by other men).

                          The sad thing is, I just KNOW this reply will be downvoted.

                          [–]Dark triad expert: - http://illimitablemen.com/ - [3 Points]IllimitableMan[S] 5 points6 points  (4 children)

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                          Blaming feminism for the increase in male suicide is unhealthy.

                          It has transformed society, it is a massive significant contributor, although not the sole contributor. To deny the adverse effect it's had on men is ignorant. Feminism opened up divorce, women initiate most divorces, women tend to get everything in divorces (money and kids - thanks to feminism again) men get divorce raped, men kill themselves after losing everything they worked for.

                          Easy to draw the correlation, that won't account for all suicides but it will "increase the prevalence of male suicide" which is what this article is about. We can infer that feminism is responsible for increasing male suicide, not causing male suicide in its entirety.

                          Relevant quote from other post:

                          I agree, there are US medical published studies which show young boys raised by single mothers are more likely to suffer from behavioural disorders and mental illness.

                          What facilitates single motherhood? The welfare state. What is much expansion of the welfare state a product of? Feminism. What made women think raising boys without fathers was a good idea, and allowed it to be socially acceptable? The sexual revolution aka feminism.

                          Nobody said feminism is the sole cause of male suicide, neither I nor the article.

                          [–]2 Mredpillschool 10 points11 points  (2 children)

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                          Blaming feminism won't cure the problem you're right, but it would be stupid to ignore that feminism has had a big hand in marginalizing men's issues.

                          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                          [deleted]

                            [–]2 Mredpillschool 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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                            You trolling, son? Yes, it has. And the fuck you going on about love suicides? You daft?

                            [–]hermit087 2 points3 points  (4 children)

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                            I personally believe that psychiatrists and pills can only help a small percentage of the population. People become unhappy and kill themselves because their lives suck, not because of some chemical imbalance in their brain, or "they just need to look at things differently".

                            People overanalyze suicide and come up with all sorts of explanations for it because they don't want to deal with the ugly redpill truth: there are many things worse than death.

                            Can men overcome feminism and live a happy fulfilling life? Sure they can, thats why we have this sub. However, the percentage of men who succeed will remain small, and the suicides will continue.

                            [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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                              [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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                                [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                                  [–]vaker 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                                  Blaming feminism for the increase in male suicide is unhealthy. The key is to focus on the reasons that could be changed. Mainly: Lack of mental health institutions for men

                                  The reason there are more mental institutions for women and not for men is because females are treated preferentially, partially due to feminism. So why should it not be blamed?

                                  [–]Uedukai 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                  This "social stigma" is a part of feminism. You contradict yourself.

                                  [–]through_a_ways 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                  sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                                  The key is to focus on the reasons that could be changed. Mainly: Lack of mental health institutions for men, and social stigma towards men showing emotions in front of others (mainly a stigma pushed by other men).

                                  Male-only spaces are effectively mental health institutions for men, by another name. Feminism's to blame there.

                                  The social stigma against men showing emotions is ultimately perpetrated by women. Women find that shit unattractive, unless you're already Ryan Gosling or something.

                                  [–]RojoEscarlata 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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                                  He is digging deeper in the trap hole to see if there is a escape in the back.

                                  Its "men don't have a pussy"such a foreign concept in modern society?

                                  Side note: which team? /u/IllimitableMan

                                  [–]Dark triad expert: - http://illimitablemen.com/ - [3 Points]IllimitableMan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                  sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                                  Side note: which team? /u/IllimitableMan

                                  West Ham all day. Andy Carroll bossing it like its fucking NBA or some shit!

                                  [–]Party_Liquor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                                  Stoke City all the way!

                                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                                  sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                                  What if the reason the suicide rates were going up in line with divorce rates / the mother getting custody and him having to pay child support for a child that turns out wasn't even his all long? Did they mention that as a possibility as to why this was happening?

                                  [–]Dark triad expert: - http://illimitablemen.com/ - [3 Points]IllimitableMan[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                  sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                                  Did they mention that as a possibility as to why this was happening?

                                  No. This looks at guys aged 20 - 49 having a higher rate of suicide than females among the same age whilst looking at the specific case of a 15 yr old also. It doesn't go into specific scenarios, it purposely avoids making any feminist connections and softly blames men for "incorrect behaviour" in wanting to kill themselves more. Shameful shit from the BBC, but then thats the UK gov, can't expect much more than BS.

                                  [–]through_a_ways 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                  sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                                  Women generally do "suicide-like" acts to get attention/validation from others, which fills the depression gap.

                                  Men know, on some instinctual level, that they can't have that level of attention, so they actually kill themselves.

                                  [–]smallpoxinLA 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                  sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                                  what's "funny" women are usually really turn off when men show their feeling, but they don't want to admit it and the profiles on OkCupid or Match.com are full of sentences like "want a man who is not afraid to show their feelings (they only mean, not afraid of public display of affection to show to all other females the man they have".

                                  [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                                  sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

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