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[–][deleted]  (19 children)

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    [–]5 Endorsed Contributorgekkozorz 153 points154 points  (6 children)

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    Maybe tapering off the sex life was what she had planned, but does she really think that that's what the husband was expecting when he bought the ring and said "I do?"

    Imagine, if you will, a stereotypical Barney Stinson-style playboy who just wants to bang as many women as possible. So he starts talking to an innocent church girl who isn't interested in casual sex and wants a proper relationship. He can't charm her panties off, so he tries the manipulative approach. He leads her to believe that he, too, is seeking True Love and that maybe, just maybe, if he can get into her bed just this once, then that can be the beginning of them being life partners forever.

    She likes the sound of that, and they bang. But she's surprised to find that after they orgasm, Barney is bolting. "Where are you going?" She asks. "Aren't... aren't you going to call me sometimes?" "Sure thing sweethart," he says, and he's gone, never to be seen again, leaving the poor girl feeling undignified and slutty.

    Well, /r/relationships would have a pretty big problem with Barney in this instance, right? He lured her into sex with the promise of commitment. That makes him a major asshole.

    This mindset that OP's wife has - that their marriage is eventually just going to diminish into a sexless partnership - is the genders reversed version of this scenario.

    The husband never expected the sex to stop. He assumed that when they became life partners forever, they would also be sex partners forever.

    This lady lured him into commitment with the promise of sex, the same way Barney lured the innocent girl into sex with the promise of commitment.

    [–]jmg83 11 points12 points  (2 children)

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    Well, /r/relationships would have a pretty big problem with Barney in this instance, right? He lured her into sex with the promise of commitment. That makes him a major asshole. This mindset that OP's wife has - that their marriage is eventually just going to diminish into a sexless partnership - is the genders reversed version of this scenario.

    I think that the woman who tricks a man into marriage and then withholds sex is a much bigger asshole than "Barney". Barney's conquest hasn't invested anything long-term in the "relationship". Besides feeling like a fool because some guy hoodwinked her into putting out, what has she really lost? In the long-run, it doesn't matter. The guy who marries a woman who takes sex off the menu, on the other hand, has probably invested a shit-ton of money into committing to one woman, not to mention time. All the time he spends not shagging his wife could be time spent shagging a multitude of women were he still single, and all in all, it would no doubt cost less, too. This man probably feels his made a mistake, but he can't very well divorce her on the basis of "lack of sex life".

    [–]100 Modbsutansalt 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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    but he can't very well divorce her on the basis of "lack of sex life".

    Actually you can. In many states this would even qualify for an at-fault divorce:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grounds_for_divorce_(United_States)#Sexual_issues

    Another one is mental illness. This is why men should NEVER get into LTRs with women who are depressed, bi-polar, etc. If the states say you can divorce because of it, what's that tell you about them being relationship material? Think about it:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grounds_for_divorce_(United_States)#Mental_illness

    [–]throw8way0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    bsutansalt, this is throw8way0. Enjoy the orangered. It makes a nice change to the red.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorWe_Are_Legion 8 points9 points  (0 children)

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    Excellently put.

    Why is that modern women absolutely balk at the prospect of any responsibilities on their end in a marriage? I mean, sure, they offer their platitudes of "compromise" and "commitment" and all sorts of other feel-good bullshit, but there is no binding power for them to do it, nor any solid definition of what these things mean for her at all. The man's responsibilities are as concrete as ever, while the woman's part is veiled in vagueness and is completely open to her whims.

    If the man doesn't get what he wants out of the marriage, he's neither aware he has a right to be indignant nor does he have any meaningful avenues to get out without hurting himself and in fact, benefiting her. All he has is to guiltily wallow in his unhappiness and self-pity and shovel effort into a problem as enigmatic to him as a woman's feelings.

    [–]100 Modbsutansalt 3 points4 points  (1 child)

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    This lady lured him into commitment with the promise of sex, the same way Barney lured the innocent girl into sex with the promise of commitment.

    ♂ This is exactly what happens far too often. Tom Leykis has said it time and time again and I agree with it entirely, never get married or let them move in. In doing so you give them all the comfort and security they seek. It's those things that are the carrot that keeps them on their toes and ensuring they do their part to make their man happy. If they don't you take away the carrot and they know this, if not logically then at least on an instinctual level.

    [–]throw8way0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    bsutansalt, this is throw8way0. Enjoy the orangered. It makes a nice change to the red.

    [–]2elysius 21 points22 points  (0 children)

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    She's thinking, "to keep my end of the contract I have to cook, clean or have sex. I'm 2 for 3 so I should be good."

    [–]MissedItCompletely 62 points63 points  (1 child)

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    Don't use their language. He's not "entitled." He's a husband who wants to fuck his wife.

    [–][deleted] 50 points51 points  (0 children)

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    en·ti·tle

    Verb. Past tense: entitled

    1. give (someone) a legal right or a just claim to receive or do something.

    2. give (something, especially a text or work of art) a particular title.

    The language is correct, it's just been tainted with shame. Like when someone feels entitled. Like if you go to dinner with a girl and she makes a scene out of having you pay, that's feeling entitled. Like when an older teenager is told to start pulling his weight around the house or focus on studies but instead is on facebook with his macbook pro while complaining on his smart phone in his private room, that's feeling entitled, "being an entitled brat." It's used sarcastically.

    But this man is entitled the same way an employee is entitled to a paycheck or severance pay. The same way Americans are entitled to freedom of speech. The word actually applies to him, that's his vagina, he's fucking entitled to it. He sacrificed the want to get any other pussy in the word for the rest of his life for that entitlement. He literally has the title of husband for it.

    [–][deleted]  (4 children)

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      [–]boydeer 10 points11 points  (2 children)

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      she's clutching at straws though. he fucking devestated her enough for it to disrupt her career and have her seek validation online (not even friends? oh, shit)

      i doubt he has control over the situation, but he is a short ride from being reinstated as mayor of fucktown.

      [–]subcover 7 points8 points  (1 child)

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      Freezing hubby out is not necessarily something her friends would validate.

      Don't expect problems from a woman's friends. They mainly talk posture talk to each other. If she admits to freezing hubby out, she might bet competition from her "friends" making friendly overtures directly to him.

      [–]boydeer 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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      you make a very good point. i just mean that a woman has clearly lost her shit when she has to turn to the internet for validation.

      [–]DrPoontang 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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      This is absolutely true. When I read it, I kind of assumed that she has already planned out a tryst on this ten day trip.

      [–]super-nsfw 13 points14 points  (0 children)

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      aka: what is the minimum amount culturally acceptable effort I have to exert to have you support me for the rest of my life while I coast.

      I can't support myself because success requires years of unrewarded hard work...and also patriarchy.

      [–]1rife_omeqa 12 points13 points  (0 children)

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      Excellent.

      It goes to show how such women think of themselves. They are a depreciating asset and they enter into marriage like they enter into any other transaction. She doled out sex to secure the contract and, once secured, didn't have to worry about her obligation anymore. Transaction complete.

      It's the same mindset that causes couples to put on weight and enter the "comfort" stage of a relationship. The hook is set, the catch is secured. From that point on sex is used as a tool of control to reel him in. That's why Dread Game works so well. Sex will be used in ample measure when a woman thinks her husband is reeling out a little too far. But a husband properly hooked and not trying to see whats out in the rest of the ocean isn't a concern for her.

      It's a fascinating insight into the transactional nature many women use to approach marriage. These same women will consider a prostitute as pitiful and yet, these wives sell sex for money/security too. They just do it on a longer time frame.

      [–]renegade 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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      I wonder if he's just a lousy lay. Women who enjoy and receive screaming orgasms will seek them out. Great sex doesn't just happen, and guys who aren't attentive to getting their partner off are missing out on a higher level game and a whole lot more enjoyment. Great sex takes a lot more than 20 minutes.

      [–]OsoFeo 139 points140 points  (25 children)

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      Be very careful with these people that subscribe to the ideology of verbal communication for everything. Non-verbal communication is just that, non-verbal communication. The wife has communicated that she really couldn't give a flying fuck about her husband's sexual satisfaction.

      For a long while I thought that people who advocated "talking things through" were moronic or had mild Aspberger's. Now I think it's a calculated strategy to trap people with their own words all the while maintaining plausible deniability.

      [–]HandsomeXan 88 points89 points  (19 children)

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      Jesus fucking Christ. This.

      If I want my words written in stone, I send a meticulously worded email. I absolutely refuse to have "serious talks" with women hamsters.

      This way, they have less room to put words in your mouth or tell you that your attitude changed the meaning of what you said.

      I don't negotiate with terrorists. And that's what females are - terrorists of emotion.

      [–]1whatsazipper 76 points77 points  (12 children)

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      I don't negotiate with terrorists.

      Next time a girl wants a serious conversation with me, that's going to be my response.

      "I don't negotiate with terrorists."

      I already don't care, but that will provide me with some extra delight.

      [–]vox_veritas 18 points19 points  (9 children)

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      That is fucking hilarious. I'd love to see the reaction to that.

      [–]Jimmy_Big_Nuts 20 points21 points  (8 children)

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      I talk to my girlfriend like that. It makes her wet.

      [–]testmypatience 6 points7 points  (4 children)

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      I find women respond to confident men and their actions. They absolutely are repulsed by pushover behaviour. They know they are emotional and need a solid rock to depend on. I read a book at one time that said men are the port that the women boats are tied to. If the boats are tied to other boats intead of the port, the ocean of emotion will sink both ships. If the ocean emotion acts up when the boat is tied to the port it will get through the storm.

      Why do drunk guys need sober friends to help keep their shit together? Because emotions are wild and nutty and being drunk makes everyone emotional crazy fucks who need a solid port to depend on.

      I have seen a lot of field tested scenarios that absolutely prove without a shadow of doubt that women enjoy confident solid men. The women that bitch about those guys are the ones that never will have a good relationship. I'm not saying that women should be pushovers and be with mean assholes either but nobody should be a pushover, ever.

      [–]Jimmy_Big_Nuts 10 points11 points  (3 children)

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      Patrice O'neal (rip) said you don't go on their emotional trips with them when they are being goofy hysterical twats. Be a rock, be stoic. Save your emotions for your family and male friends. Also, I think it's important to call your woman a bitch or a cunt whenever she behaves like one. Don't go overboard, just be truthful. She will love you for it. She will never hesitate to call you a loser if you are acting like one!

      [–]testmypatience 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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      Also, I think it's important to call your woman a bitch or a cunt whenever she behaves like one. Don't go overboard, just be truthful.

      Pretty much. We call each other names like this for fun when we aren't mad though so it's sorta funny when it's a serious situation and the meaning changes just based on tone and context.

      Save your emotions for your family and male friends.

      Uh... not so much. As long as she isn't throwing an emotional fit at you at the time, is perfectly acceptable to be emotional. Example: If your kid dies, if your family pet dies, if your house is burning down, etc.

      Often when upset as a man, she will be fine. So let's say that you as the man have just had your dad die or what not, then it is perfectly ok to be upset and cry. If she is solid it is nice to be human at those times. Just be realistic and not a giant twat about things. Men are human too. I personally fucking hate crying or being upset because I hate how it makes me feel but that is all just because of how society conditions us to feel like we are not allowed to be human but always must be stoic. Being human is important as a man. Children need to know that their dad is strong but also able to love them and care about what is happening with their lives. Grandpas tend to show the most accurate format of what a man should be. Just not the ones that you can see throwing rocks at kids or telling kids to get off their lawn.

      It sometimes takes men a lifetime to see the truth. Sadly not everyone finds the truth before they die. Life is a bastard.

      She will never hesitate to call you a loser if you are acting like one!

      Sadly she doesn't. I would greatly appreciate knowing when I am being a dumbass but because I am a man to her, she doesn't tell me. It's an odd scenario.

      [–]1whatsazipper 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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      It's never ok to display emotions out of weakness. Not if you enjoy keeping women around and having them respect you.

      [–]boydeer 14 points15 points  (2 children)

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      the trick here is amused mastery. you can't say it from a position of despair.

      [–]Jimmy_Big_Nuts 24 points25 points  (0 children)

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      Yeah, you say it with a grin as she goes into melt down. It's like when parents laugh at a child having a tantrum. They feel impotent rage and learn not to do it in future. It's bitch training.

      [–]1whatsazipper 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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      Saying anything from a position of despair means your relationship is well passed its expiration date.

      [–]subcover 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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      Nah, just either chuckle, or have this "serious conversation" and keep your responses light. She just wants you to get butthurt, to get some emotional traction. Keep it logical, stay tough.

      That's how men have serious conversations. Businesslike and rational. Let her melt down, don't you melt down.

      Then, you may have an opportunity after that emotional display from her, to take her back to the bedroom and have some great sex.

      [–]HandsomeXan 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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      Taking the whimsical approach with a plate/gf is better.

      If they've known you for longer than a few weeks, I guarantee they've stashed away perfect insults that they know are going to infuriate you. They are fucking experts at emotional abuse. If emotional abuse was treated just like physical abuse in a court of law, there'd be more women in jail than men.

      The business approach is logical. "Logic" is not in their vocabulary.

      AWALT: conniving cunts.

      Even if she melted down and you didn't, do you really think she'd notice? She'd tell you you broke down because <insert saved insult for this moment>. What do you do then? Tell her that she's insane and to get out? She'll construe that as you melting down, no matter how calm and collected you are. There's no winning.

      tl;dr If they really want to hit a nerve, they will succeed. Take the whimsical approach and thus refuse to play that lose-lose game.

      [–]rpkarma 3 points4 points  (2 children)

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      I had a (now ex-)girlfriend break up with my via (a super long) email. Her reasoning was that I would "convince [her] not to break up with [me]". Bit off topic, but a funny memory.

      [–]PrinceBarrington 4 points5 points  (1 child)

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      She feared you would do exactly what she would have done

      [–]sway_usa 8 points9 points  (0 children)

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      I said it before and I'll say it again: projection explains 90% of womens' unexplainable behaviors.

      [–]100 Modbsutansalt 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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      I don't negotiate with terrorists.

      It's funny that Tom Leykis just used this language on this week's Leykis 101. Women who do this sort of thing are very much emotional terrorists and use fear of loss (or worse) to get their way. Women who use sex as a weapon or as a tool/reward included.

      [–]throw8way0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      bsutansalt, this is throw8way0. Enjoy the orangered. It makes a nice change to the red.

      [–]Exactly_what_I_think -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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      I don't negotiate with terrorists.

      I remember telling my xGF this while she was moving out. I did not pack or move or help in any way. Yet we fucked 2-3 times a day up from 1/week. Even after she moved out was out she always needed help with something. I would show up fuck her then browse tinder while she was making food. The TV stand was an excuse for a week until some beta provider built it for her.

      [–]MeRikeyBouncy 17 points18 points  (1 child)

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      Can't agree more about the talking things out strategy... A ploy to twist words and morph the issue into some self affirming fuck you to the other person. You don't want to talk, you want a chance to convince me I'm wrong.

      [–]duckducklandwhale 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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      This. I tell you the way Ive seen some women can twist words or events is mastery. I expect a From A to B logical linear argument. Often times they'll go to A to C D E and next thing I know Ill be asking where the fuck is B? I think that comedian Reginald Hunter has a small bit on it, listening with your feelings.

      [–]mctoasterson 16 points17 points  (0 children)

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      Basically. Some people are very good at arguing. Doesn't mean their reasoning is sound or their moral position is better.

      [–]subcover 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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      Talking things out isn't what is needed, certainly not a "clothes on talk". That never works. Is that seduction? What is needed is seduction, game, asserting your drive for sex.

      I can't think of any situations where one should "talk things out" with a woman. If she breaks up with you, you certainly don't, she'll just insult you. If you break up with her, it hurts the chance she'll still stay attracted to you. Here, it would be ineffective and kill whatever desire was left.

      [–]CornyHoosier 26 points27 points  (0 children)

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      As the red pill has been preaching for some time now, you can clearly see this sentiment unequivocally being expressed by a married woman. During a marriage, women are allowed to turn down the sex.

      You hit the nail on the head there man.

      Two things stuck out when I was initially reading her post. The first was that she had nothing nice to say about her husband. The second was that she left on a 10 day trip and they didn't have any sort of sex before hand. That's absurd.

      I'm older than both of them and have an insane work schedule from time to time. I'm quite familiar with the feeling of waking up, working, then coming home to sleep and do it all over again. You feel drained, and yes, at times your social and sex life takes a hit. However, I can't think of a single time (while in a relationship) that you didn't enjoy your time with your SO before you left.

      Long work hours, dumb excuses, minimal and dispassionate sex & no mention of positive traits about her husband ... all signs point to her fucking another guy.

      [–]1myTRPaccount 60 points61 points  (1 child)

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      I had read that thread and was pretty dusgusted with the advice given. The one thing that was not pointed out in any of the replies nor in the original message was that the husband was obviously not having much sex in the months prior to him keep tracking of it. It's not like he was having a lot of sex with his wife and then up and went "Hey, I think there's going to be a cold streak coming up in the next two months. I better start keeping count." No, that's not what happened. This guy was being denied sex for many months prior to him keeping track of it. Commenters seem to think that he only had sex 3 times in two months when he probably only had sex with his wife 10 times in the past half year.

      People have this weird idea about sex and marriage. As if you don't owe your spouse sex when you are married. But that is exactly the one thing you do owe them. If your spouse wants to go see a movie and you don't want to, they can call a friend to go see it. Same with going to a restaurant or all other activities. But if you want to have sex with your spouse and they don't want to, you can't just call someone else up to do that.

      [–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

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      Because don't you know that sex is an emotional experience that I only want to experience with you?!? But I never want to feel that emotional connection because I'm too tired hehe I'd rather watch friends go make more money you useless sack of shit.

      [–]16 Endorsed ContributorGayLubeOil 169 points170 points  (16 children)

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      Whats frustrating about being a man is that you're expected to live by these moral values while women arn't expected to do shit. When you realize that women don't try to do the right thing, they just want to fo their thing, that is your first step into redpill territory. His wife isnt honoring her marital obligations so he shouldn't either. First thing he should do is spend a couple hundred on a prostitute. After that he should take on some male activities like martial arts or working out instead of wasting time on his dropout wife. Maybe she'll get jealous and come aroind maybe she won't. But honestly you have one life fuck spending it appeasing a bitter cunt.

      [–]Summertime_Dimes 85 points86 points  (15 children)

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      upvoted, but I disagree on a prositute. If he gets picked up by law enforcement, that will result in a very bad outcome at divorce time. I suggest going to a bar, club, whatev, and banging out some strange the old fashioned way.

      If this dude has been out of the game for five years then his options might currently be limited, but thats cool. Bring home a 4... just do it without paying her for it. That is a confidence building block - a small one - but a very real one.

      Even in my BP days I was getting laid on the regular, not necessarily quality, but steady ass. After RP, every chick I got with that was a little bit hotter, a little bit younger was a level up. Now, I treat all women the same as I treat all men. I was able to accept that this worked because I had done it so many times - treat a 5 like a 4, treat a 7 like a 4, treat a 9 like a 4. AWALT is something this cat needs in his life.

      When you pay for ass (with actual cash instead of time or beers or whatev) you get a release. What you don't get is that sense of "I slayed this chick. Using my looks and charm alone I took down this stranger and fucked her silly." Even if its a 4, that is a bigger self esteem boost than paying for an 8 - because you HAD to pay for it. If this guy was banging strange all over town and wanted to splurge on a night with a dime piece escort, go for it. But he isnt, and he shouldnt until he can get laid on his own terms.

      You are dead on about putting himself first. She clearly was/is. So much so that she put that business all over the internet because she needed affirmation that she was right and he WAS being unreasonable and a child. Now she is sufficiently bolstered to continue her life of never being wrong, and never fucking her husband.

      [–]vox_veritas 44 points45 points  (2 children)

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      upvoted, but I disagree on a prositute. If he gets picked up by law enforcement, that will result in a very bad outcome at divorce time. I suggest going to a bar, club, whatev, and banging out some strange the old fashioned way.

      As a divorce lawyer, I 100% agree. However, I would argue that paying a prostitute is, in fact, "the old fashioned way." They call it the world's oldest profession for a reason.

      [–]love2fap 10 points11 points  (0 children)

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      reminds me of an old joke.

      what do you call an honest woman?

      -a prostitute.

      [–]Summertime_Dimes 10 points11 points  (0 children)

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      hahaha. fair enough. humans were fucking before currency, but there was still probably some sort of exchange... berries, or sea-shells or something. No such thing as a free bang.

      Glad you agree. My practice is securities plaintiffs' work, so I don't touch family law (thankfully). Appreciate you weighing in.

      [–]subcover 7 points8 points  (1 child)

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      Speaking of divorce, his documentation here (and her reddit thread about it, not disputing its accuracy) will be helpful to his side in court. He tried, he really did, she cut him off, and here's the documentation.

      And knowing this, she feels her power in court slipping away. A bit of insurance usually provided to women, gone. And THAT may be why she is panicking. She didn't actually expect to have to be passionate, she was expecting more of an insurance scenario. Damn him for taking that away so cleverly!

      I think his spreadsheet is FULL of win for him. 10/10.

      [–]Overkillengine 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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      Bingo. Something that makes him look patient and reasonable in comparison to her in court is good if the end goal is divorce.

      [–]robesta 2 points3 points  (8 children)

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      If he gets picked up by law enforcement, that will result in a very bad outcome at divorce time.

      Irrelevant in most states due to no fault divorce.

      [–]Summertime_Dimes 8 points9 points  (7 children)

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      Disagree. Equitable division of the assets is decided on by the finder-of-fact even in no-fault divorces. Put a woman or a white knight on the bench or in the jury box and suddenly his proclivity to frequent prositutes earns her more than half.

      Fucking hookers might not be cited as the cause for divorce, but if you think it would not impact the division of assets you are fooling yourself, brother.

      [–]robesta 11 points12 points  (6 children)

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      No matter what happens you're not going to look like the victim. The same women/white knight could do the same thing with assets even if she's the one cheating.

      [–]Summertime_Dimes 2 points3 points  (5 children)

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      Ok. But that is a different argument than the first one you made.

      First, you stated it would not matter because of no fault divorces. Now you are saying that it would not matter because the system is screwed up.

      I don't disagree with your most recent statement by the way, but we can't reach a consensus on the first issue if the topic we are discussing is a moving target.

      Also, I never said anything about looking like a victim. I believe that it will go badly for him with or without the soliciting charge. I only stated that it will likely go worse if he gets picked up for soliciting hookers.

      [–]robesta 2 points3 points  (4 children)

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      In theory it shouldn't matter with no fault divorce. You're saying it should because of bias. I'm saying bias is bias no matter the circumstance.

      [–]Summertime_Dimes 1 point2 points  (3 children)

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      We are talking past each other it seems. I am saying that divorce courts tend to be negatively biased against men. I believe we agree.

      I am also saying that a Court or jury can increase or decrease the impact of their negative bias when facts such as abuse, cheating, solicitation of prostitutes come to light. If a husband gets caught fucking a prostitute, a court or a jury WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY come down harder on him during the division of assets.

      A no fault divorce means that you can be legally split without someone being at fault. But there is still a division of assets, unless one is agreed to. A solicitation charge can and will be used as leverage by her lawyer to exact more money out of him. If no settlement is reached, a solicitation charge will be entered as testimony which will cause an already biased system to be MORE biased. It will increase to 11 basically.

      [–]robesta 4 points5 points  (2 children)

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      I buy what you're saying. I just don't want to give him any excuse to not fuck whores. ;)

      [–]Summertime_Dimes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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      totally dude. The guy should go on a bang parade and get in everywhere that he fits in. Glad we found common ground, brother. Have a great week.

      [–]1whatsazipper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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      Sounds like the type of friend I'd keep around.

      [–]Jimmy_Big_Nuts 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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      Solid advice

      [–][deleted] 72 points73 points  (8 children)

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      Great write up, someone give this man a point.

      [–][deleted]  (6 children)

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      [deleted]

        [–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 78 points79 points  (15 children)

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        What I find infuriating is the modern idea that obligation is a four-letter word when it pertains to women. The idea that a woman should have any obligations, ever, is seen as the greatest human injustice.

        Someone needs to tell those broads that the entire idea of marriage was the unifying of two people under a set of joint obligations. Historically a man was obligated to provide his provision -- money, home and food on the table -- and to set aside chasing women in exchange for access to his wife's body and nurture/housekeeping. Modern women have decided that they want nothing to do with that system...except the part about male obligation.

        This is why marriage rates are going down. Men aren't stupid, they're waking up to the reality that there is literally no benefit in it for them. It literally is a grab-bag of goodies if you're a woman, but outside of parental rights there is nothing about marriage that betters a man's life today.

        [–]Summertime_Dimes 32 points33 points  (12 children)

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        Dude, call it informal polling or data mining or whatever, but I have had a conversation about marriage duties and obligations with nearly every gf and plate I have ever had. I just want to know what is going through these chicks heads. Every single one did not see any problem with a wife making her husband incel if her drive changed.

        None of them understood that as a partner in a marital partnership that they would be responsible for actually contributing. Seriously, zero women asked answered in a satisfactory manner. I would have expected at least one outlier given a decent sample size, but no such lady could be located. Either they don't exist, there are so few that they may as well not exist, or that wisdom comes so late in life that its really too late for men to make use of it because she is in her 40s.

        There is no reason to get married excepting maybe to have kids. Though I am not even sure about that anymore.

        [–]5 Endorsed Contributorgekkozorz 41 points42 points  (3 children)

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        This is a failure of the matriarchy. Women are supposed to raise their daughters with the mindset that a good partnership is one where she has something positive to contribute to the relationship, and she gets positive things from the man in return. Instead they're raising a generation of princesses who are learning that men should be freely giving them things because they have a vagina.

        [–]Mans_Right_To_Choose 37 points38 points  (2 children)

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        A vagina that he isn't allowed to touch. Isn't that sickening?

        Entitled Bitch Princess: "Fill my bank account with the fruits of your labor. Feed me. Tell me I'm pretty. Take out the trash. No sports. No friends. Give me the remote control."

        Poor Schlub: "Why?"

        EBP: "I have a vagoo. "

        Poor Schlub: "May I touch it?"

        EBP: "Of course not. Now rub my feet."

        [–]Mouthpiece 26 points27 points  (3 children)

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        Every single one did not see any problem with a wife making her husband incel if her drive changed.

        How many had a problem with her husband making her poor if his work ethic changed?

        Yeah, that's what I thought.

        [–]super-nsfw 5 points6 points  (2 children)

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        It would actually be very interesting if a legitimate non-biased sociologist did some sort of a study on gender behavior in /r/relationships and other subs

        [–]bluedrygrass 4 points5 points  (1 child)

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        Such kind of studies are impossible to do or at least to diffuse. the poor sociologist trying to demonstrate ANYTHING remotely non-positive about females would be eaten alive, by medias, feminazis, common peoples, everybody.

        Meanwhile a bitter cunt can awake one morning in one of her period days, decide that all men must be thinking to sex once every 7 seconds, and it becomes instant TRUTH and FACT, showed down your throat by compliacent manipulative medias. (It really happened, a female pshychologist or something like that realized her career was going down the shitter and for this or any other reason decided to announce the world that after a research she discovered that men thinks about sex once every 7 seconds. Those luxurious pigs, etc.. Instant success and words written in stone. )

        [–]super-nsfw 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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        Hahaha....it's true. Same thing with "rape" "statistics".

        [–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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        When people speak of the breakdown of marriage institutions, this is what they mean. Society isn't something that organically develops, you need to shape and control behaviour (male and female) to get a desired result.

        The marriage institution worked great for thousands of years at reigning in female hypergamy. We're now seeing the ramifications of opening that up.

        [–]DanG3 3 points4 points  (2 children)

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        Just curious, did you happen to ask if it would be ok with them (if they made their husband incel) if he got sex outside the marriage? (It's not a new idea - it (is?) was practiced amoung the upper class and wealthy for quite some time.)

        [–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 8 points9 points  (1 child)

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        At that point, why get married? If you're going to get sex from multiple sources then it makes most sense to just spin a bunch of plates.

        [–]DanG3 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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        I was asking Summertime_Dimes if he "poled" that question in the process of his questions to women. But I agree, if women feel no obligation for sex unless THEY feel like it, in today's world there is no sense in being married.

        The beauty of this is, women screwed themselves by trying to make "marriage" a better deal for themselves. Now (more and more) Men don't want to have anything to do with marriage OR women. Now SOME women are seeing how they were screwed by their feminist "sisters" and they don't want to be a part of the deal. We can only hope!

        [–]100 Modbsutansalt 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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        What you just said about male obligation is exactly why tradcons are not our friends.

        [–]throw8way0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        bsutansalt, this is throw8way0. Enjoy the orangered. It makes a nice change to the red.

        [–]MooMooMooN 32 points33 points  (0 children)

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        God forbid that you feel a little bitter that your whole life you were told that love triumphs all. That something like this could never happen if you had a job, got a house with your wife, didn't abuse her or anything like that. You did nothing wrong, you did everything according to the way society told you that you should do it, and now you're in a sexless marriage.

        This rang really hard and true for me! I used to think if I was a nice, decent, happy and hard working man I'd attract a woman of high caliber.

        lol .. nope.. just left me for many years, bitter, angry and depressed.

        NOT ANY MORE, FUCKOS!!!

        [–]ButterMyBiscuit 49 points50 points  (3 children)

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        On point, and I think your breakdown makes this a good case study on why marriages fail. This guy did everything he was supposed to (as far as society at large is concerned) gets a dead bedroom as a result, and then his wife goes online and people make fun of him. Fuck that life.

        [–]N3vertheless 49 points50 points  (2 children)

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        Good men aren't hard to find. They are being found and systematically beaten down until there is nothing left but the shell of what was once a man.

        [–]TogiBear 51 points52 points  (11 children)

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        Seriously if you are being honest about being "too busy cleaning" to have sex, stop. fucking. cleaning. You are fucking up your marriage.

        My two cents is that cleaning is just a shitty excuse to help victimize herself. I know wives that have multiple kids, keep the house spotless, and still have time to fuck their husbands.

        She just doesn't want to get off her fat ass. If she wants to watch Friends, that's fine but his cock better be in her hand.

        [–]testmypatience 10 points11 points  (0 children)

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        I took care of my kids and dated and still had time to do whatever the fuck I wanted. Kids and cleaning are super easy things. Cleaning is like 4 hours a week even for a perfectly clean home even with kids. If you train your kids well they clean the fucking house for you. I have lovely kids.

        I would rather be a stay at home dad than a breadwinner. Stay at home parents have a killer sweet deal.

        [–]199639 23 points24 points  (0 children)

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        Yeah no kidding "oh I had to work extra hours at my job, I have to clean, I have to go to the gym", yeah well a quickie takes like 10 minutes total so obviously that is a load of shit. If she had any interest in sex it would have happened.

        [–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

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        How long does cleaning a house for two adults take? 30 min once a week if you don't just throw shit on the floor all the time? Not to mention doing laundry is the most overblown chore in modern times. How on earth did women ever have the time for sex before modern appliances?

        [–]orc_czar 32 points33 points  (3 children)

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        Also, what is the deal with women acting like doing laundry is so fucking hard? You never hear single men complain about doing it. It's one of the easiest household tasks there is.

        [–]TogiBear 22 points23 points  (0 children)

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        Western culture raises women to be selfish. They're taught from birth that a great (10/10) man will find them and love them for who they are.

        If she's with her Alpha fucks, she'll be glad to be the one to do his laundry. Doing his laundry gives her gina tingles, because she knows perfectly well other women would gladly take her place.

        If she's with her Beta bucks, she can't stand to think about another person's wants or needs. Notice when a woman makes a post to /r/relationships how often she says something along the lines of, "when I do/don't do this, my SO feels..." I've never seen a relationship post made by a woman that includes how and what her beta bucks feels about the subject. It's always about her.

        So it's not about the chore, it's about who she's doing it for.

        [–]super-nsfw 6 points7 points  (1 child)

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        This is true, laundry is a breeze.

        Although, making it a breeze requires organization - when the dryer buzzer goes, you have to take it out immediately and fold it or hang it, otherwise you got wrinkles happening.

        I like when I have arguments with my wife and she says things like: I'm a guy so I don't know about cooking, or doing laundry, or whatever. Wifey, I've been doing all of this for far longer than you, and I'm also very good at it, because I put some thought into it to figure it out at the start, rather than do it in the background like a braindead drone as you watch whatever those shows are on your iPhone.

        It's too late for me boys, but save yourselves!!!!!!!

        [–]bluedrygrass 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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        "B-b-but we are SO multitasking! We do like tree things together, none of those good, but that makes us the superior gender! "

        Meanwhile, in my 20s, i don't know a single female around my age able to cook as good or better than me. And i'm not even particularly good, i just know the basic things and i put some attention in what i do. Females unable to cook are REPULSIVE.

        [–]underdogmilitia 11 points12 points  (0 children)

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        And I'd bet my life that the only cleaning she will be doing on her 10 day Business trip is "polishing the knob".

        [–]vox_veritas 9 points10 points  (1 child)

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        Or, he could sit on the couch for the blowjob and then tell her what happens during the episode.

        [–]5 Endorsed Contributorgekkozorz 19 points20 points  (0 children)

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        "There's a hilarious misunderstanding involving a girl Joey slept with, and Chandler and Monica are fighting about something. Keep going, right there, oh yeah."

        [–]Overkillengine 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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        Reminds me of "The Bad Touch" by Bloodhound Gang:

        So show me yours I'll show you mine "Tool Time" you'll Lovett just like Lyle

        And then we'll do it doggy style so we can both watch "X-Files"

        [–]Thomas_Crapper 15 points16 points  (1 child)

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        This made it to Deadspin. And the Deapspin(god that site is awful btw) writer mentioned us in the comments. He trashes us of course, meanwhile 5 outta 6 of the response are of a resigned, beaten down attitude. The majority poke fun at the guy... on an exclusively male site about sports and male culture.

        This is where we are.

        [–]un-affiliated 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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        Deadspin is as much a gossip site as a sports site. Plenty of women.

        [–]6Invalidity 24 points25 points  (1 child)

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        A conversation isn't going to get you sex. You can build attraction through conversation, if and ONLY if there was any attraction there to begin with.

        He got sex because he kept pestering her. That's as low as it gets. But this guy is not an exception to the rule: he is the rule. Many men will tell you that the sex life drops off dramatically after marriage. Let me tell you this, UNLESS the couple has had a baby, there is no reason for the frequency of sex to diminish. When you date a woman, she likely has her own responsibilities to attend to. If she was that busy, she wouldn't have sex regardless of whether you are married or not. But we know that isn't true.

        Marriage is a test that many men fail, which ultimately renders them that much more unattractive. If you go into a marriage with any fears whatsoever of divorce, you will fall into whatever traps your wife sets for you. You MUST have a lot of character and strength if you plan to marry.

        [–]hq8 9 points10 points  (0 children)

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        Those who fear death cannot live true. Those who fear divorce cannot marry true.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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        [deleted]

          [–]dallz_beep 21 points22 points  (0 children)

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          The way she talks, dripping with sarcasm, she is obviously fat and unattractive. Her username makes it even more obvious.

          [–]deville05 7 points8 points  (1 child)

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          I see people hating on him for making a spreadsheet. I think thats brilliant. we note down everything important in life when it comes to other things.. our appointments, our things to do, things to remember.. so why not our sex life?! without the spreadsheet I only imagine the convo to be..

          man - I initiated sex several times last month and you rejected almost all of them woman - no you didnt!! tell me why, tell me when !! man -that time when you were this n this n that n that..

          by having a record of what has transpired, he has put her on the spot. but her ego is bruised because she cant wrap her head around her faults and so she is focusing on the manner it is communicated rather than the communication itself

          [–]Endorsed ContributorYouDislikeMyOpinion[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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          man - I initiated sex several times last month and you rejected almost all of them woman - no you didnt!! tell me why, tell me when !! man -that time when you were this n this n that n that..

          This is probably exactly what he made that spreadsheet for. Some twisted version of this, with a sick back and forth relationship between them.

          It's useless bullshit at the end of the day. If you're an employer and you're employee sucks ass, the solution is to remove that employee and not give them a list of things they did wrong.

          The thing that is sick, is that she knows what she's doing.

          You know that trait that humans have where they justify everything they are doing by going through a list of excuses. They repress any understanding that they are actually wrong, because it would set off a chain reaction leading to the conclusion that a lot of their thoughts and understanding is wrong? I have a lot of personal experience a specific woman repressing things to such a degree that the thought that she could be wrong only in her subconscious. She was literally innocent in her eyes and in mine. I knew what she was doing. And on some primal brain level, she knew as well. But as far as cognitive thinking goes, it wasn't up there. This is exactly the coping mechanism that women use to justify all of their interest in alpha men.

          Example: Girl says that she likes a guy a lot, he has a great personality, and looks good. I already guess that his finances are in order, and he's got lots of options. Sooner or later I find out the guy has a house fully paid off, nice car, etc. That stuff attracts them, but they repress it and focus on all of the other things.

          This is a great strategy for men. Fighting ethical feminist fire with fire. I don't have to say that I like fucking girls, I can say "I don't know what I want right now, but I'm not ready for a relationship" (You're only good enough for me to fuck you) "I really like her personality, and she is really nice to me, and makes me smile" (I can't wait to fuck her DDs and cum on her face, she's just a regular girl).

          It's just that I do this consciously, and women do this subconsciously.

          [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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          [deleted]

            [–]Endorsed ContributorYouDislikeMyOpinion[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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            Do you remember what she said about not having a job?

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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            [deleted]

              [–]Endorsed ContributorYouDislikeMyOpinion[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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              I love how girls have a sense of pride from having a boyfriend.

              "I have a boyfriend and we... Blah blah"

              "Bitch, it's not hard to get a boyfriend. The checklist is have a pussy and somehow advertise it."

              [–]seethelight476 8 points9 points  (4 children)

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              His sexual market value isn't matching up. He better get his shit together and start working on himself.

              She's disgusted by him.

              [–]199639 14 points15 points  (3 children)

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              I think I can count on one hand the number of LTR's/marriages that DON'T end up with dead bedroom. I think sex loses novelty for women and they are just not interested enough to keep up the act indefinitely. I think the safest way to avoid this situation is simply to avoid marriage/LTR.

              [–]seethelight476 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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              Yeah MGTOW is an option, but I kinda wanted to have kids someday. And just having women as fucktoys gets boring for me.

              But being the idealists that we are, we hope that our marriage will be different and we need to keep it afloat.

              This guy is deep in marriage and cares about her so he needs to take the tools he can to fix the situation.

              You have control in this situation. You can make the sex novel. Create roleplays, use new dirty language, new positions, new locations.

              Most guys don't want to put in the work. They're happy in their little beta bubble til it pops.

              [–]199639 5 points6 points  (1 child)

              sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

              You have control in this situation. You can make the sex novel. Create roleplays, use new dirty language, new positions, new locations.

              I think that still only can go so far. I think the number of couples who can actually remain interested in one another is pretty low, and I think divorce rates support that.

              [–]seethelight476 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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              If all guys knew how to handle their shit and learnt some game the divorce rate would be a lot lower.

              But yeah, image smashing the same pussy every night for 30 years :(

              [–]mister_selfdestruct 5 points6 points  (3 children)

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              Personally I have been rejected 364 times out of 365 days by ex...

              EX!

              [–]friestogo 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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              Was that one day your birthday?

              [–]sway_usa -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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              For me, after the first few hookups, any sexual rejection is a next. As long as she isn't in the hospital or just had a pet/family member die, there are no exceptions.

              [–]Ambiguousdude 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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              Extremely well written, feeling part of TRP community atm, the points are sinking in.

              [–]ryeprotagonist 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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              this didn't JUST start 2 months ago. it has been a long term issue. how do we know this? the guy didn't just wake up one day and decide to keep a spreadsheet... this was weighing on him for a long fucking time.

              [–]seethelight476 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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              I'd say over the last 2 years of marriage there's been a steady decline, maybe it got really bad in the past few months.

              [–]19 Endorsed Contributordrrrrrr 5 points6 points  (2 children)

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              If you are going to marry, you actually need to be more alpha to hold down the girl than you would if you kept it at a plate. That's the problem - this guy was likely pretty full beta, but alpha enough that she could tolerate sex and rationalize being in love. Decent enough (still shitty, but functionally shitty) for a LTR) but not going to cut it for marriage, given that marriage is a massive power swing in the female's favor - and women know this, which is why they pursue it so hard when they start to feel their power dropping in the dating market.

              Obviously marriage is retarded in the US unless you want to have kids in the nuclear setting in the near future, but if you must marry, think of it as a call to elevate yourself. Now that you are vulnerable, you need to run a little more dread, hit the gym that much harder, have other women "orbiters", and never ever beg for sex. Either fuck her or go out that night if she won't fuck (and isn't sick or has some real reason for not being up for it).

              I blame this guy more than the girl because it's his responsibility to solve his problems proactively in a non-passive aggressive aspergersy manner. Face to face, lay out the options, present his side, decide what HE is going to do, remain stoic, and be prepared to handle the nuclear shit-tests. He is spineless - he is trying to solve the problem from afar with a grade sheet or observational study of her behavior (as if such a logical breakdown would mean anything to a woman).

              Always, always counteract the betafication that marriage represents by climbing a point or two in SMV, tightening your leader frame, and running a little dread game. After all, marriage is simply nothing more than dread game being run on you.

              [–]DanG3 3 points4 points  (1 child)

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              "I blame this guy ... "

              From an informed RP perspective, sure, he's guilty. HE should have known better. BUT what has been bothering me is, HOW should he have known better? I mean, according to most of the world, TRP sucks and is bullshit, right? How about those wedding vows - "To have and to hold ... ?" Should he have been told at the Men's Club that has been invaded by women? Maybe by his dad? Well, Dad wasn't around because the feminists told his mother in sooo many ways that she didn't need to have a man in the house. I guess Dad should have known better? How should Spreadsheet Man have known that you have to keep Gaming your wife after she gets her wedding?

              [–]RebootedMale 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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              I kind of feel like throwing up right now. Men that I went to high school with (going on 30 years ago, we are approaching 50) are posting this on Facebook and shaming the husband. I'm talking police officers, ex military, all of the guys.

              They are treating this as if it is completely normal, so I'm assuming they all have dead bedrooms themselves and are completely submissive to their wives.

              The end of dudes.

              [–]Endorsed ContributorYouDislikeMyOpinion[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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              What were their general sentiments?

              If they were making fun of a man (boy?) who is resorting to making a spreadsheet to "tell" his wife that they are not having enough sex, then I'd be right on board with them to a degree.

              But if they are hating on him for not doing the Right Thing™, then I understand. End of dudes it is.

              [–]Endorsed Contributorleftajar 7 points8 points  (1 child)

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              Be very careful with these people that subscribe to the ideology of verbal communication for everything.

              Beautiful point, and I want to expand on it.

              Open communication is a great policy for friendship and certain work relationships.

              The problem is when we move into heterosexual relationships. Dominance and submission is the core dance of male-female mating. Bringing a problem to your wife openly and honestly like that is, by nature, submission to her opinion. "Here is my problem, honey, please address it." That is inherently submissive, and therefore inherently unattractive to women.

              Literally, the /r/relationships strategy will worsen the problem. Just another piece of bluepill advice that makes logical sense but ignores the true nature of women.

              [–]1KyfhoMyoba 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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              This comment should be sidebar.

              [–]esproductions 13 points14 points  (6 children)

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              Thank goodness there are actually some decent responses in there that aren't being downvoted. OP doesn't have sex with her HUSBAND and she plays the victim card asking reddit what shes supposed to do about her scumbag husband... here's an idea, have sex with your HUSBAND. Women want sex just as much as men, and if this woman has zero sex drive there is something seriously wrong with her. The spreadsheet is beta as hell but at the very least its hows how deeply frustrated he is about the lack of sex, and how long he's been frustrated about it. And fuck that sub, its full of blue pill betas and women just reinforcing/encouraging beta behaviour. Any time I post any relationship advice telling a dude to man the fuck up, people look up my post history, see I post on TRP, and immediately I'm met with 30 downvotes.

              [–]seethelight476 4 points5 points  (4 children)

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              People do hate TRP :)

              Duty sex barely papers over the cracks. You can't negotiate desire and make an agreement for sex 2x a week. Very unsexy.

              How about he works on himself to become more attractive instead of being a whiny bitch. Yeah he's frustrated. I get it. But what is he going to do beyond pestering her for sex and making spreadsheets about how much he isn't having sex?

              [–]esproductions 7 points8 points  (3 children)

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              Yeah I get it, this guy could be a total loser in which case its not her fault she doesn't wanna fuck him. But she doesn't mention that her lack of sex drive is because he's let himself go or whatever, she just says its because she cleans and cooks etc. We really don't know why they aren't fucking, but she should really be working it out with her husband, not posting about it on motherfucking reddit for affirmation.

              [–]seethelight476 1 point2 points  (2 children)

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              "she doesn't mention that her lack of sex drive is because he's let himself go"

              That's way too honest and simple for her to figure out and to communicate to him. I don't know if this guy could take such an ego blow.

              "Hey honey, I'm not having as much sex with you as you would like because your sexual value is tanking below mine. You can fix this if you start working on yourself again and become more attractive. Wanna go out for dinner later?"

              Making excuses and crying to reddit seems a lot easier.

              [–]Snivellious 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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              Hilariously, that might actually work. He'd be depressed hearing it, but he'd either go into denial and walk because she doesn't respect him, or he'd hit the gym, get a hobby, get his shit together.

              [–]seethelight476 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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              Yeah, women are rational, introspective and honest, and pigs fly.

              [–]theredpillager -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

              Any time I post any relationship advice telling a dude to man the fuck up, people look up my post history, see I post on TRP, and immediately I'm met with 30 downvotes.

              Yet another reason why you should be using a side account here. I log out of my TRP account, log into my main account, and drop nuggets of TRP wisdom on an account with no TRP trail. Subtly converting the masses of men is just as important as protecting one's identity.

              [–]1 Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 10 points11 points  (0 children)

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              Great post. Thanks.

              The only thing left for this man to save at least a μ of dignity for himself is to eject.

              Seriously if you are being honest about being "too busy cleaning" to have sex, stop. fucking. cleaning. You are fucking up your marriage.

              If I would ever be drugged enough to agree to a marriage and my wife told me that she is to busy cleaning the house to fuck with me, this would be the moment to remind her that I could get an (admittedly ugly) south european prostitute who would come and clean my flat while being naked and let me fuck her afterwards for as low as €50,-.

              I've been offered exactly this two times in the past.

              €50,- isn't even enough to cover the cost for food for a week for one person, if you refrain from junk, so maybe it's time for her "to check her privileges"...

              [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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              [deleted]

                [–]Nerf_Circus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                I didn't get that impression. She having an emotional breakdown and can't stop calling him.

                [–]1KyfhoMyoba 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                Not sure about that. She says she cried herself to sleep that night. Sounds to me like Dread Game (thermonuclear edition) is working.

                [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

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                So basically what women are saying is that marriage is a contractual obligation for MEN and SOLELY men...men must be providers...but in exchange for what? A mediocre whiny maid? If sex is no longer an obligation of a wife, then why is a man obligated to work...

                [–]DurdensWrath 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                It is a trap. It has ever since someone started making things where men weren't given things to take the woman off her father's hands.

                [–]TheRedderPill 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                /u/YouDislikeMyOpinion is today's Red Pill MVP by a mile

                [–]dancingwithcats 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                I would feel sorry for him except I don't, because it is self inflicted. I would say I'm fortunate to have a great sex life with my wife after 17 years of marriage but I'm not fortunate. It's how it should be, not a gift or some stroke of luck. Sure, we don't fuck 3 or 4 times a day anymore but most days we do at least once. Hey, I'm getting old. Sometimes my back hurts or I have a headache.

                [–]therapeofafrica 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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                Shot down 9 out of 10 times??? You would have stats at least that good in the real world just by hitting on ten random women. Wtf??!

                [–]mctoasterson 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                Some good points here.

                It is the fault of both individuals in this relationship that things got this way. People of both genders often get married and then use that as an excuse to stop trying - whether its eating too much, deciding to never put out, or lapsing into complacency and "beta" behaviors. All of these things are going to essentially kill the attraction and sex life.

                Married men need to take care not to fall into this trap of sex becoming a reward mechanism the the wife doles out sparingly. Once that dynamic is established it is very difficult to break out of, and she will abuse it for all it is worth. It becomes like a twisted parent-child-like dynamic in which she will incentivize and reward certain behaviors. If it gets to that point, it is beyond fucked up and very difficult to fix.

                As OP says above, the usual remedies such as simply "next"ing the relationship aren't available, because it's a marriage with its own legal hurdles and entanglements.

                [–]Jimmy_Big_Nuts 3 points4 points  (2 children)

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                I think this whole saga, the spread sheet, the r/relationship shitty advice, and this breakdown is a really great case study and teaching tool.

                [–]morphite65 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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                Seriously as soon as it showed up on my page I went looking for the Red Pill response and breakdown :)

                [–]Jimmy_Big_Nuts 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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                I saw the RP version first, and later checked out the r/relationship version and was DISGUSTED by the shitty bluepill, female centric, sex and the city, feminist tumblerina, white knight, m'lady, fedora tipping faggotry going on there. That poor blue pill son of a bitch hasn't had kids yet so can divorce, learn and regroup.

                The only other acceptable option would be forcing his wife to agree to new terms whereby he can have a girlfriend or affairs or side pussy, but he could never pull that off because their relationship is already over , she's not attracted, and I can't see why he should struggle to change her when he could just learn from his mistake and start again with a younger prettier model who knows from day 1 sex is the glue that makes him stay.

                [–]Doomsday_ 5 points6 points  (1 child)

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                Best part of the wife's story is how she freaks out when her husband won't return her calls & emails. No-contact dread game hits her harder than any BP style verbal communication ever could.

                [–]1KyfhoMyoba 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                Yep. Nonverbal communication is still communication. And apparently more believable, too.

                [–]1 Endorsed Contributormordanus 7 points8 points  (2 children)

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                I see this one differently than a lot of people. I went through almost the exact same shit with my wife. At one point in my marriage she tried to actually friend zone me. She actually said that she feels that sex doesn't have to be a part of marriage and that we should just be good friends. I asked her if she honestly felt that she was a good enough friend to me for me to be wasting time with her. Why wouldn't I go live with my guy friends and pool our resources instead of waste my time with her? I told her the only thing she had to offer me that my friends couldn't give me was sex.

                I also see a lot of people saying that that she has an obligation to fuck her husband and I disagree strongly. A husband doesn't deserve sex and I think that this is an essential thing to understand if you want a red pill LTR. You have to earn it. We all know that the reason this guy isn't getting the sex he wants is because he doesn't do it for his wife. She isn't attracted to him for whatever reason and he can't fix that by bitching to her about it.

                When you point out that your wife isn't being a good wife by not blowing you every time you ask is obligation and duty sex if she cares at all. Trust me that duty sex is terrible. You get the physical gratification with none of the validation that comes from someone actually wanting you. I've been there for a decade and it's lonely as fuck.

                What this guy needs to do is accept that his wife doesn't like him as he is and either try to improve himself or leave. Pointing out how resentful he is towards her just makes her resent him in return.

                [–]DurdensWrath 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                One thing I did with my long term girlfriend, is I moved her to the guest room when she didn't give me sex. "The guest room is for guests, when you find my girlfriend, you can come back to bed".

                My room is MINE. She can get the F out if she isn't going to give it up.

                [–]1KyfhoMyoba 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                Tell us how you fixed things with your wife. After a horror story like Spreadsheet Guy, we need something inspirational.

                [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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                It's pointless to argue about this stuff with women. The hamster is not simply made up - it's real, biological, hardwired in their brains. Logic doesn't matter, arguments don't matter. Whatever comes out of women's mouth regarding relationshits is aimed at optimization of the survival and the quality of the offspring. Man doesn't matter, and when it appears that he does - it's only due to higher purpose: to ensure the survival and the quality of the offspring.

                [–]subcover 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                Yes, at least half the comments were reasonable. Many of those must have been from women.

                The one comment that was upvoted so much, well I don't trust those numbers. I think the mods or admins can jigger the numbers. When one post has hundreds more upvotes than others, are there really so many lurkers doing that? I don't think so.

                The mods of /r/relationships are much more feminist than the average poster. I just got banned for a thread where none of my posts were heavily downvoted.

                [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Wives need reasons and have excuses. Girlfriends don't.

                [–]1iluminatiNYC 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                After I dove into that thread, it's clear that homegirl had some issues of her own that she was too afraid to bring up. Apparently, it had been regular (from her own words) until a few months ago when she started "feeling fat".

                Like I told a female friend a few days ago, if a guy is hard around, and isn't otherwise angry, upset or otherwise preoccupied, he obviously finds you hot enough to fuck. She projected her issues onto him, then got mad when they were thrown back in her face. The OP's husband needs to GTFO and move on. I get the feeling that she was doing this all along, and it was only now that he manned up.

                Now is time to fold your cards and move on with life.

                [–]MattBoBat 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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                You are right, he was being totally passive aggressive in the way he dealt with this situation and look where it got him. He only amplified his own pain and suffering by handling it this way and dug himself a deeper hole to get out of (That is, if he even wants to salvage the relationship).

                Passive aggressiveness is the way a beta handles his shortcomings, and I appreciate you elaborating on that. Haven't really thought of it like that before.

                [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                [deleted]

                  [–]RPthrowaway123 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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                  Absolutely correct. She describes him as bitter and immature after he provides a home and income and only asks for sex in return.

                  [–]1KyfhoMyoba 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                  Don't know about the income. She's travelling for work, which means she is probably making some good coin. If she is earning more than 60% of the household income, that removes him from even being a beta provisioner, and if his alpha is low, as it seems to be from lack of tingles, what's left for him? He's not a beta provisioner, he's not alpha - he's invisible. Reruns of bad TV are more exciting than he is.

                  [–]jmg83 1 point2 points  (2 children)

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                  Let a man turn down his wife when she offers sex, and count the seconds before she asks if he's fucking someone else. Granted, this man could have been more tactful, but still. If they aren't getting much now at their age, then what the hell will it be like when they have kids?

                  [–]DPestWork 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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                  i can confirm, I was a regularly accused husband. Sorry if I dont want to have sex when I get home from work and smell/feel gross. Or after I had been up for 36hours, surprise I'm not in the mood to be the stud and do all of the work again.

                  [–]jmg83 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                  Exactly. There are times when there's just no point half-assing sex. You'll feel like crap, and the woman will blame you for shoddy performance which you didn't want to give anyway. We're not goddamn dildos with legs.

                  [–]cooltrip 1 point2 points  (2 children)

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                  This is why I defend polygyny over monogamy. Sex is something men receive from women (no bidirectional exchange), which implies men enjoy and like sex more than women. In a monogamous marriage this is a problem, because the man will want sex more times than the woman will want to give him sex; this is detrimental for the marriage. In a polygynous marriage this problem doesn't exist: if one wife doesn't want sex, there are other wives.

                  [–]Endorsed ContributorYouDislikeMyOpinion[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  I have the exact same thoughts. It's very interesting that in the muslim faith, a man can have up to 4 wives. Anywhere from 2-4 is not too little, and not too much. It's not a coincidence. Some time ago, men were sitting down, and decided upon that.

                  Polygyny is a very interesting subject.

                  [–]100Timeswww 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  The top comment on there now is actually pretty good and realistic:

                  For the sake of your sanity in dealing with clients for nine days, reply back with an email. But a nice one. Even if his email was pretty lame, he is probably fearing that the past 7 weeks are not only temporary but a new way of things. Tell him you love him, things have been crazy with all of the stuff going on, but you will work it out. And for your sake, even though you guys have a lot of stuff going on, you have to enjoy life. Make evenings together "your thing". Make dinner after the gym but leave him the dishes while you go and take a nice shower, get into something comfortable and just relax and enjoy your night together. Watch TV, have sex, snuggle. Married life gets busy. When my kids were little my grandmother told me that housework will always wait for you. I always spent evenings with my kids making dinner, giving them a bath, reading to them etc. Your evenings together are as important as anything else in life, maybe more so. Cut yourself some slack, and him too. Hope it works out.

                  [–]SupaPineapple 0 points1 point  (15 children)

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                  Two things I'm asking. I'm 19 M, so I won't be married anytime soon but...

                  1. What's the PROPER response to a wife denying you sex to this extent? (Besides not getting married in the first place) I understand you're supposed to use non-verbal communication, but give me some examples.

                  2. Aren't women just as sexual as men? How the FUCK do THEY go this long without sex? (Besides them getting some dick on the side)

                  [–]mbr902000 4 points5 points  (5 children)

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                  Number 2. Women CAN be just as sexual as men but their attraction to a man starts on an emotional level. The guy in this post isn't getting any pussy because he isn't stimulating his wife's brain and he is acting like a beta chump. She probably wants some dick, and she will spread her legs in a split second as soon as she runs into a decent looking guy that either gives her attention, makes her laugh, or asserts a dominating role. As for question number 1, have you seen the movie Rounders? "If you can't spot the sucker sitting at the table, you are the sucker". She is denying him sex because he doesn't make her panties wet, not because she is tired from cleaning. When I stick my hand down a girls pants, their pussy is already soaked because of the way I talk to them and act around them. This hamster has a case of Sahara Snatch

                  [–]DanG3 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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                  You are getting some good advice below. I'm going to chime in here and say that my experience has been that woman can be MORE sexual than men. (Shit, I wished someone would have told me that when I was 19.) I've been with women who just wouldn't quit wanting sex - sex now, sex later, sex in the car, sex in the house. (Sounds like "Marvin K Mooney").

                  I've been with my wife for 21 years, had 3 kids. She's 14 years younger than I. I have NO idea what the 'declining male libito' talk is about! I've been with her when SHE couldn't get enough ... AND ALSO when I was ready to start a spreadsheet, too! But, the answer/solution is NOT the spreadsheet. The ANSWER is THE RED PILL! Keep reading and digesting this sub and other similar sites in the Manosphere. Keep asking questions. That's what I did three years ago when my marriage was very similar to those you see over in Dead Bed - and very similar to Speadsheet Man's. Right now, our marital bed has NEVER been hotter, and all indications are that it will continue to get still hotter.

                  Here's my .02: Women have "Responsive Desire." What they are responding to, however, is like a moving target. There are a couple of things that are consistent. 1) ALL women, young and old, respond positively to "Hotness." (Pick a hot male actor/movie protagonist. "Capt. Jack Sparrow"/J. Depp works well.) Be him. Be as hot as you can be, and don't be shy about it.

                  2) Women are hard-wired to use sex and sexuality to attain and keep what they need. If you want sex be stingy with what they want/need. A very hot stripper friend of mine (who I had a thing for) once told me (about giving her tips) while doing a lap dance "Make me work for it." Most women want to please the man they are into. But it is the PROCESS of attracting and pleasing the Man that is exciting and pleasing to THEM. When a man puts a woman on a pedistal and/or GIVES her things to please them, it is annoying and frustrating for her because it deprives her of the opportunity (as "Barbie" put it) to "work for it." It's a "turn off" because she never has to "turn on" her sexuality. Try to determine what it is that the woman you desire wants or needs and only/always/mostly tease her with getting it. She'll keep giving you sex as long as she DOESNT have it.

                  [–]SupaPineapple 1 point2 points  (3 children)

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                  So basically, he's unattractive? Not necessarily in a physical sense, but it may as well be. His passive-beta behavior simply turns her off? I suppose that makes sense.

                  [–]DanG3 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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                  It could very well be something as "simple" as they both like to eat lots of pizza. They both have fun eating pizza. Eventually they both get fat. BUT, she still wants the house and picket fence, so she "loves" him for being around to help PROVIDE that. However, he's fat and sexually unattractive and so is she. Her Disney brain tells her that they are married and in love, but her primal brain is saying he's unfit to breed with = He needs to get off, but "she" (her primal brain) doesn't see him as "attractive" to breed with. Plus, she's unfit and feels gross. LTR RP Solution: He becomes the leader in the relationship and stops eating shit, hits the gym and gets hot. It's very likely that her primal brain is going to see that he's hot, desirable to other females, and that she could loose him. Primal brain will tell her, "You better give him sex AND you better loose your fat ass to compete with the other females."

                  [–]c4rlos 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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                  wow mindblown you are right. This is happening to me right now.

                  [–]DanG3 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                  On the subject of eating/being fed: Women are also socially programmed to believe (for example), "A way to a man's heart is through his stomach." And, in their primal brain women are programmed to keep their man away from other women. Feeding him until he is unattractive is one way to (unconsciously) do this. Buying him 'married man' looking clothes is another. Assuring him, "Love will keep us together" pretty much makes him think he can sit on the couch and play video games - until they need to reenforce it with rebar! BUT, in the process she is also making him unattractive to herself as well. The process assures her that she will not have to compete with other women for him. It then frequently follows that she will let herself go. We then have two fatties in the sack. One is horny, the other is feeling "gross" and simply "feels" no need to keep what she already has secured, no one else would want, and is just not "attracted" to.

                  Of course HE is the one who is unattractive and from what I have been reading all day, HE should have known better. BUT what has been bothering me all day is, HOW should he have known better? I mean, TRP sucks and is bullshit, right? How about those wedding vows - "To have and to hold ... ?" Should he have been told at the Men's Club that has been invaded by women? Maybe by his dad? Well, Dad wasn't around because the feminists told her in sooo many ways that she didn't need to have a man in the house. I guess Dad should have known better?

                  [–]Prattler26 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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                  What's the PROPER response to a wife denying you sex to this extent?

                  What's the proper response to a wife saying "You are not attractive to me"? Either make yourself more attractive (RP will make you more attractive) or walk away (extremely painful if you have kids). That's why marriage is so dangerous, you can't walk away without seriously hurting the kids. You're also hurting your kids if you stay in such relationship..

                  [–]seethelight476 2 points3 points  (2 children)

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                  1. You shouldn't let it get this bad. Nip it in the bud: Keeping your sexual market value above hers (career, fitness, social circle, internal frame). Keep it playful, flirty, take her on dates, dominate her. Keep your game up (the game never ends). Sometimes she won't be in the mood but you should be getting sex 90% of the time. Try to find a girl who is open and honest in communicating with you. Avoid dating dramatic girls.

                  2. Women are just as sexual as men. Bud take a look over at r/deadbedrooms and you'll see the problem is more common than you would think. Often both sides go celibate for a long time, focus on other things, don't make sex a priority. Being celibate is not a fun time, see how frustrated the spreadsheet guy became.

                  Did I answer your questions adequately?

                  [–]SupaPineapple 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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                  I think so. But as for 2, I feel like im missing something. I feel like, at this point I HAVE to have orgasm at least every other day, but in the dead-bedroom case, it seems women don't have to have sex at all. I understand that some people have lower libido than others, but in most dead bed cases, it just seems the man wants to have sex while the woman is either against it or apathetic towards it. How is this possible if women have similar libido?

                  [–]seethelight476 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  Self-image or psychological problems. People in happy healthy relationships want to be having regular sex.

                  Yes some people have different libido levels. Try to find a girl that matches yours ;)

                  [–]weag5l 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                  IMO for women, sex is always a means, not an end. There is zero libido. Any man who thinks otherwise is just being played.

                  [–]duckducklandwhale 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  In response to 2, since Im not married and dont plan to anytime soon.. Women do not have as strong of sex drives as men. Although, when theyre finally having sex the intensity of it is greater.

                  [–]1KyfhoMyoba 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  The proper response to a wife denying sex is Dread Game. This means that you start improving yourself immediately in any and all ways you can. And you also use these improvements to DEMONSTRATE (NOT explain verbally) that you are attractive to other women, preferably younger, lighter, hotter tighter women.

                  [–]53Pirate 0 points1 point  (3 children)

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                  Sadly, I'm thinking there's not much this guy can do but seriously threaten and possibly exercise the nuclear option. This is all about what makes her panties wet.

                  Here's my view of these type situations. They've been together for 5 years. The longer a woman has been married to (or with) a man the more her view of his beta/alpha ratio becomes set in stone. Once it tips over a certain ratio he's no longer making her panties wet (if he ever did) Going to be very hard to change at that point no matter how much he goes to the gym; dresses better; takes up new "manly" hobbies, gets a better career, etc. She will always have those uber-beta moments of the past burned in her brain and his self-improvement efforts will be viewed as just a different form of beta begging/desperate/pleading for sex from her. (and this is the problem I have with some of the stuff I've read over at MMSL)

                  Short of increasing his SMV exponentially via body & personality changes; actually moving out for a time; attracting some other women; and perhaps joining the Hells Angels, Navy Seals or something drastic like that ... her panties will never really get wet from just being around him or thinking of him despite his self-improvements, because all those beta-moments will always be there in her psyche.

                  (btw - I see no point in his having showed her the spreadsheet .... it was, however, probably a good exercise to conduct for his own interest/edification/enlightenment though to really solidify in his own mind how much he doesn't make her panties wet. In fact, mostly due to the whole "spreadsheet" thing I'd say the odds are pretty good she will be finding someone who does while on her 10 day business trip. By confronting her with the spreadsheet he's done nothing point out to her in black-and-white just how much he DOESN'T make her panties wet. (Solipsism ... she's going to view it in terms of her own life, not his) He's decreased his own SMV in her eyes by showing her in black-and-white just how sexually unattractive he is to her. A good self-test of his own SMV while she's gone on the trip would be to see if he can find another woman of equal or higher SMV than his wife whose panties he DOES makes wet. If not, then the spreadsheet might begin to make some sense to him. And this, my friends, is The Red Pill. Down it with the beverage of your choice lest it stick in your throat. Some men choose alcohol, some choose television or other diversions. I don't recommend those options.)

                  [–]DanG3 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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                  Re: "She will always have those uber-beta moments of the past burned in her brain and his self-improvement efforts will be viewed as just a different form of beta begging/desperate/pleading for sex from her. (and this is the problem I have with some of the stuff I've read over at MMSL)"

                  • Setting aside the SS fuckup (I think it's more a fuckup than beta), are you disagreeing with MMSL that LTRs need to be a dynamically changing combination of Alpha and beta?

                  [–]53Pirate 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                  Haven't read the book ... only read some of the advice given over there, not all of which I agree with on a very fundamental basis.

                  [–]Endorsed ContributorYouDislikeMyOpinion[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  I have an additional view about her seeing him betafied in her mind forever.

                  One part of it is that he made himself into a betafied pussy in her eyes. But the second thing is that she is the type of woman that will bring him down to that level continuously in her mind. I see that trait in women, not as on/off switch that is permanently on, but as a dial from 0 to 100, with a bell curve distribution.

                  You're bang on with everything else. Great analysis.

                  [–]lloopy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  I didn't read the email he sent. But I wonder how he presented the information, and what conclusions he drew.

                  If he said something like "This changes when you return, or all your shit is in a box to the left." then kudos on him.

                  If he said "whine whine whine you don't love me any more!" then he's doomed to failure (unless he finds TRP and works it all out).

                  [–]bongwaterblack 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  I just spent some time checking out /r/relationships for the first time, and it made me laugh and shake my head for an hour. Its chock full of pussified men and the women who took their balls away from them. I have so much pity for those guys.

                  Great post. I'm looking forward to the follow up

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                  sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                  That bit about making women crave it is spot on. In a lot of these cases, guys don't put in enough effort. I know nothing about this guy's case, but I see it all the time.

                  [–]Endorsed ContributorYouDislikeMyOpinion[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                  Another problem is that a lot of guys think effort is the solution. Effort-oriented vs. solution-oriented are two very different things. Same idea as "work smart, not hard".

                  [–]tmpjb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  Attraction is everything when it comes to relationships. We've all seen the shit people go through just to stay to people they are attracted to. And we've also seen how shitty people treat the partners they are not attracted to.

                  No one has actually gave the man advice on either subreddit. The wife is obviously a crazy, dumb bitch and there is no reasoning with her because she fails to see the obvious. I say the guy immediately tries to get some on the side (discreetly) and looks into protecting himself in the inevitable divorce. Thank god he didn't have kids with her. Once attraction is gone it is VERY hard to get back and it's the reason I will never marry.

                  [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

                  sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                  You've spent an inordinate amount of time thinking about said man.

                  [–]Endorsed ContributorYouDislikeMyOpinion[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                  Literally like 15 mins of reading and thinking, and then typing things up. Under an hour for sure, and it was an hour well spent.

                  I really have to make it a habit to do some financial trading or something while I write anything on reddit so that I can reply that I made money while doing this and enjoyed my time making money. Maybe monitor some high frequency trading while posting.

                  Thanks, it's a push I needed.