top 200 commentsshow all 244

[–]aphelion3342 434 points435 points  (61 children)

She's 35 and is willing to wait 10 dates?

I don't understand women.

[–]hashtagpound2point2 44 points45 points  (2 children)

If she's still looking good, the wall won't be hit until a doctor tells her that she literally can't bear a child anymore. She'd still be getting too much validation looking like a hot 28 year old to hit the wall.

[–]DoesNotMatterAnymore 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Exactly this. Some reason in the US the 30+ probably spot on determinating the starting point of the wall, but in europe, this not really true. It's up to your genes, and how much effort do you put into your body.

[–]1Ill_mumble_that 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And it's not that American women are prettier, it's that the bar is much lower here. With 60% of the country's population being obese, the remaining 40% are made to look pretty good.

[–]riverraider69 119 points120 points  (2 children)

It makes sense. Once under the influence of the wall they're looking for beta bux a lot more then just plain fucks. So they'll string along every poor sap they encounter in the hope he'll go for the long haul.

Of course, if he looks like bailing she'll turn into a horny bunny because 10 dates is enough to give her hopes, and losing him is unacceptable.

[–]g_ggg 56 points57 points  (1 child)

This seems spot on. If she thinks OP is a good catch, at age 35, she'll do whatever she can to lock him down so she at least has him as an option. She controlled the relationship by making OP wait 10 dates. The second OP walked she lost control and the ability to lock him down. She probably waited 2 days trying to regain control and hope he'd come crawling back. When he didn't, she made a last ditch effort to salvage things, she contacted him, met up with him, and fucked him. That doesn't mean she won't try to control relationships when she can but she's too desperate to let good catches slip through her fingers.

[–]1Ill_mumble_that 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's a brilliant strategy, because eventually she'll find a sucker willing to give her everything while listening to her lies. And if she doesn't find one, at least then she didn't have to have sex with anyone except men that proved they were alpha enough not to put up with her shit.

[–]Homard80 172 points173 points  (17 children)

I don't understand women.

It's like playing Black Monopoly. You don't win. You just do a little better each time.

[–]TominatorXX 52 points53 points  (10 children)

[–]rsresnor 28 points29 points  (4 children)

The one thing that needs to change about that board is the 13th place from jail needs to say: "Sign astronomical pro sports or record contract."

[–]jethreezy 12 points13 points  (3 children)

Then they draw a chance card, and blew out a knee, back to jail...

[–]CocaineOnThaSink 8 points9 points  (0 children)

You forgot to pay taxes. Go to jail.

[–]RickSHAW_Tom 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Or beat the shit out of fiance...

[–]Squeezymypenisy 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Or killed a couple guys after a few seasons.

[–]Xiudo 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Needs to have a few community chest/welfare places to land.

[–]zzupdown 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The only way to win is not to play.

[–]Tom_The_Human 15 points16 points  (0 children)

You can win - just don't play or put up with their bullshit games.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)


    [–]DoDraper 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Exactly. You hit the mother of all nails, sir!

    [–]Cant_Tell_Me_Nothin 102 points103 points  (9 children)

    The guy is 40 and he is willing to wait 10 dates, I don't understand guys.

    Not being a white knight, but the blame can also be put on OP for allowing it, don't forget that.

    [–]2elysius 30 points31 points  (4 children)

    The blame should be put squarely on him. Dude waited 10 dates for something a woman more than 10 years past her prime used to give out freely? He should've nexted her after the second time she didn't put out.

    [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

    After two to three dates, I would say leave if she didn't respond to me escalating; dread game bros.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)


      [–]1Ill_mumble_that 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Unless she's paying for them all and they are genuinely enjoyable. When I was 19 I was dating a MILF that was 44 and she bought me all kinds of shit. The sex still took about 7 dates, but at that time I would have been happy with just eating fancy food and getting nice clothes for free.

      [–]ArmandoWall 8 points9 points  (3 children)

      If the woman is as smoking hot as he described, yes, I would have done exactly the same thing.

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)


        [–]ArmandoWall 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        Um, ditch her, just like I said I would do?

        Edit: I mean, I see your point. We're not disagreeing.

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        It's because every time it happens you think to yourself "maybe next time"

        [–]seddition 43 points44 points  (14 children)

        I've found that from 30 to 35 they all act this way. They think the way to get commitment is to withhold sex. In my experience the 22-29 year old are way easier to bed. I've had similar scenarios to op. Went out four or five times with this girl. She was cool, low maintenance, and attractive. We got along well. We'd have hot makeout sessions but she wouldn't ever let it go further. She was 32, which was a bit old for my standards anyways. Meanwhile, the 26 year old I was dating who had similar qualities was fucking my brains out. So I stopped calling 32 year old. She kept trying to make plans and I kept ignoring her or making excuses. I see her out at a bar and we have a nearly identical conversation to OP's. I'll be damned if I'm going to wine and dine some 30+ year old for months to get laid when the same girls were fucking anyone who bought them a shot when they were younger.

        [–]telechronn 12 points13 points  (2 children)

        I'm in my late 20s, and lately I've been with women 19-44. I would say that the 35-45 tends to be the "easiest" with a few exceptions. These women tend to be divorced and give no fucks about wanting sex. The 18-28 cohort is the second easiest. They are also the most "gameable." Classic asshole game makes the panties drop. The hardest nuts to crack are 28-35. These are most dangerous as well. The clock is ticking and its ticking hard. They want to know things are "serious" and if you want kids. They'll make you wait 5+ dates, and if you haven't moved on and you pass their vetting tests, then they will fuck the shit of out you though if they think there is potential. I think subconsciously they are trying to lock you down get a baby.

        [–]seddition 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Absolutely spot on. My experiences exactly.

        [–]52576078 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        This is correct. I actually decided a few years back to avoid women in the 28-35 range. One, as you say, they are a pain in the neck (but they don't have a lot of control over, it's biology). Two, I don't think it's fair to waste their time either, when it's clear we want different things. It's not good to string somebody along like that.

        [–]squishles 7 points8 points  (1 child)

        The thinking is kind of fucked up, when they're younger people tell them to hold out more guys will be interested in commitment. They of course go fuck that, yay dicks. Then 30 something rolls around and they kinda go fuck, I need to get a guy, lets roll out that no longer applicable advice and hamster it into making sense.

        If a guy marries a slut, it's because they want a slut. Not someone who "grew out of that phase in their life" or thinks he wants to "chase her". It's worse than just staying an honest slut would have been. It's demanding you be dumb enough to ride along on the cognitive dissonance coaster with her.

        [–]1Ill_mumble_that 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        It makes sense though. This is women we're talking about. They are slaves. Not to the patriarchy or feminism, but to their own irrational drive.

        [–]Endorsed ContributorHarleyWalker 9 points10 points  (0 children)

        Of course younger girls are easier to bed. This girl is likely another "reformed" slut that learned the hard way now she wants to play these good girl games. Too bad most people are too thick and solipsistic to learn from the mistakes of others and continue to make them themselves until it's too late, because at that age I would feel disrespected to have a woman even suggest I wait ten dates for sex.

        [–]behringer__ 17 points18 points  (6 children)

        B-but the people at /r/relationships would tell you that you shouldn't think you're entitled to sex at any point from a woman, even if she did easily sleep with men when she was younger...

        [–]Azothlike 119 points120 points  (4 children)

        And they'd be right. You're not owed anything.

        But either is she, and that includes your time and attention, so you're free to give those to someone that will give you what you want.

        [–]telechronn 19 points20 points  (0 children)

        Exactly. A man is never entitled to sex and a women is never entitled time/commitment.

        [–]Newbosterone 11 points12 points  (0 children)

        And they'd be right. You're not owed anything.

        But either is she, and that includes your time and attention, so you're free to give those to someone that will give you what you want.

        I regret that I have but one up vote to give.

        [–]etherael 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        No, because feels not reals.

        [–]DoesNotMatterAnymore 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Ohh you want my commitment?

        Well... well.. well...

        It's time to pay for it.

        [–]10J18R1A 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        If they only remember what Patrice O'neal said about stale cracker jacks.

        [–]laere 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        The fact OP waited 10 dates is alarming. Why would you jump through 10 dates worth of hoops for some post-wall bitch? You wouldn't. OP you really need to set some boundaries. If you're not fucking her by at least, AT LEAST, date 3, next her and find someone else.

        Abundance mentality bro, this reeks of scarcity mentality.

        [–]teeelo 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        Well, you are in the right place.

        [–]DumpyLips 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        I've noticed this. SOmetimes older women try to differentiate themselves from other girls, younger girls by playing the "good girl card". They're basically trying to project an image of purity to appear higher value.

        [–]Fzed600 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        She'll be in menopause by the time she wants kids.

        [–]1johnnight 9 points10 points  (2 children)

        read more blackdragonblog. The Anti Slut Defense gets stronger with age.

        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        thx for the suggestion, first time hearing about it:

        [–]Devinity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        BlackDragon is great. I used to read his posts on seduction forums years ago. I'm glad he's still at it.

        [–]miss_sogony 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Probaby due to the fact, as OP said, she's better looking than 99% of women.

        [–]AnotherLostCause 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        It is her way of hamstering that her CC riding days are behind her and that she is now ready to be wifed up so she can squeeze out a panic kid. She is still in the danger zone for an oops.

        [–]neverbenched 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I read this as I don't underestimate women hahahaha

        [–]timdo190 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        He said she has an amazingly stunning body duh

        [–]1kingofpoplives 150 points151 points  (18 children)

        Any woman over 25 who tries to pull this shit after the 3rd date, you've just gotta next. It's amazing how many start putting out once you go cold.

        When a woman approaching or past the wall tries to pull this, you can be sure she has you pegged as a beta bux. Let's be serious. At that age, her pussy is not some special prize "worth waiting for". It's not like you are the first man to traverse that territory.

        Women that extend the waiting period past the typical "see, i'm not a slut" period of a few dates are withholding sex to gain power.

        [–]Movonnow 42 points43 points  (9 children)

        In my experience, every girl who does things to qualify her as not being a slut is considering you as a beta buck.

        "I don't drink"

        "I never do drugs"

        "You are my second boyfriend, ever"

        Yeah, sure.

        [–]BlueChilli 24 points25 points  (7 children)

        "You are my second boyfriend, ever"

        Ow, that brings up some memories. An ex of mine, I was her 'third boyfriend'. Yet she had slept with many guys. Even if it was the same guy for months at a time 'it didn't count' because 'he wasn't a boyfriend'.

        [–]Movonnow 22 points23 points  (3 children)

        You know there is something wrong when a girl tells you she only fucked one or two guys and then gives you the best bj you ever had, lol.

        [–]igotbeatbydre 10 points11 points  (1 child)

        a lot of times it could be the opposite if those 2 guys were both long relationships. You don't get good at sex by fucking a lot of dudes. You get good at sex by fucking a lot with the same dude. I know a couple of girls who are huge sluts and rarely fucked the same guy more than a couple of times. I've been told that all of these girls are awful at sex. Like straight up starfish and catbacks.

        [–]2Red_August 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        It varies, it depends on their attitude and the lovers they had. Their thirst.

        [–]Greenspike25 0 points1 point  (0 children)


        I'll take the best blowjob I ever had, and give zero shits about her history. But that's just me.

        [–]the10thrider 5 points6 points  (1 child)

        Even if it was the same guy for months at a time 'it didn't count' because 'he wasn't a boyfriend'.

        Holy shit I've been there before. I guess they're just 'fuckfriends'. A lot of times not friends at all.

        [–]jcrpta 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        My first gf was like that. Lost her virginity at a young age, then six months later decided all those other dicks didn't count and she'd lost it to me.

        Had I known then what I know now.....

        [–]_DiscoNinja_ 36 points37 points  (0 children)

        "If I'm gonna eat some stale as cracker jacks... I'LL EAT some stale ass cracker jacks, but I want them RIGHT NOW!" - Papa Patrice

        [–]2Red_August 7 points8 points  (2 children)

        Frankly, this can happen at various ages - obviously it happens more often as they near the wall. If they're interested in you you fall into either a lover or a provider. If you're their lover, they'll fuck you as soon as you enable it. If you're a provider, you'll enter a power negotiation phase in which they will withold sex as a bargaining position. Never enter that frame.

        [–]1kingofpoplives 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        If you're their lover, they'll fuck you as soon as you enable it. If you're a provider, you'll enter a power negotiation phase in which they will withold sex as a bargaining position. Never enter that frame.

        Yes. Is it the frame of bad times.

        [–]MaxPower6 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        This is the best comment in this thread. OP trying to sound alpha when it's in fact the opposite.

        [–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (3 children)

        I don't like TRP's rule of 3 dates, I honestly think 5 is ok. Very often it could actually be because she is true LTR potential and not a dumb slut. I will say, for the most part, the chicks/women who took 3-5 dates too fuck were much more tolerable (by an overwhelming amount) than the first date fucks....

        [–]1kingofpoplives 16 points17 points  (0 children)

        I don't like TRP's rule of 3 dates

        I don't think it needs to be a hard rule, but if you're gonna wait you should be damn sure she is truly a bona fide "good girl" with LTR potential. If an older girl with slut flags is trying to pull this shit, you owe it to yourself to resist or just dump her.

        I'm only gonna find waiting acceptable if I'm highly confident that every other guy that banged her waited at least the same amount of time.

        the chicks/women who took 3-5 dates too fuck were much more tolerable (by an overwhelming amount) than the first date fucks....

        I tend to agree with this. The first date fuck pretty much ends any possibility of an LTR right there.

        Another interesting note, a lot of the chicks who fuck first night are just looking for an anonymous one night stand that their friends will never find out about and are more likely to flake afterwards. Either that are they are embarrassed by their own sluttiness.

        [–]edmproducerXX 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Its not a hard rule.It exists so that TRP can hammer down a principle in your head. Hell you can even wait a month for sex.Just make sure that you are achieving the benefits of what you are investing !

        Skip to 3:59 and learn from Lord O'Neil

        [–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 79 points80 points  (5 children)

        See, aren't you glad we waited?"

        No, but nice damage control girl.

        [–]Mouthpiece 43 points44 points  (1 child)

        "No, I'm glad we stopped waiting."

        [–]I_HaveAHat 3 points4 points  (1 child)

        That's exactly what it is, damage control. If op never dumped her she still wouldn't be fucking him yet, she was just trying to appear to be in charge

        [–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 12 points13 points  (0 children)

        she was just trying to appear to be in charge

        Find me a bitch that isn't manipulative.

        Spoiler: you won't.

        If OP's machiavellianism isn't tight, he's fucked. She's already framing it as if she's in charge, no matter how subtle. All relationships are a war between the masculine and feminine imperative.

        [–]satanic_hamster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I've found it ironic that women think men operate with a double standard when they don't want to wait past a certain number of dates to have sex with them, but won't LTR them when they give it up and give the guy what he wants.

        A man looks at it like this: "why should I wait longer than X amount of dates to have sex with you if guys in the past got it easier and quicker than I'm getting right now?" Simple, you shouldn't, it's not worth your time.

        If I was looking for an LTR and a girl had a reputation for making good decisions, and even the faintest degree of sanity, I would be far more willing to consider her in the long run than a woman who was clearly reckless. Reputation is everything, for men and women. It's how you're able to invest in or trust anybody for anything.

        Fundamentally as a man, you decide your own level of involvement, so, why should you have to pay a cost that other men didn't have to when she was more attractive the further back to go?

        [–]5 Endorsed ContributorStayinghereforreal 90 points91 points  (12 children)

        "See, aren't you glad we waited? .. She protested and said she just needed time, to get to know me, etc etc etc. Blah Blah Blah."

        lol Yeah, because three weeks ago, the sex would have been so much different. /eyeroll

        Careful with that one. She is thinking she can regrow her hymen, and that you will thereby be magically under her spell. You know damn well guys in the past didn't have to wait 10 dates, and that was when she had more to trade with.

        [–]_penseroso_[S] 34 points35 points  (9 children)

        Exactly. I was thinking along the same lines. I'm not the type to fall desperately in love with girls though so I'm not too concerned with the games she will try to play.

        [–]5 Endorsed ContributorStayinghereforreal 20 points21 points  (8 children)

        Now ask yourself the real question: if you weren't having sex with her for 10 weeks (one date per week, I assume), who was?

        Because it is unlikely that she went 2.5 months without sex. Yeah, exactly. Some other guy was likely getting it, while she tried to figure out whether you were a branch to swing to.

        [–]_penseroso_[S] 9 points10 points  (7 children)

        No it wasn't that long...we went out like 3 nights a about 3 weeks. I don't think she was banging anybody else at the time.

        [–]5 Endorsed ContributorStayinghereforreal 13 points14 points  (6 children)

        Ah, changes things a bit, that does.

        [–]ButterMyBiscuit 28 points29 points  (5 children)

        I can't help but read this sentence with an intense 19th century London accent.

        [–]Xiamon 6 points7 points  (1 child)

        Sounds more like Yoda to me.

        [–]KarmaEnthusiast 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Yeah I read it as Yoda too.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)


          [–]BluepillProfessor 31 points32 points  (2 children)

          There is only one response to this nonsense:

          Sure I suck dick in the bathroom 5 minutes after meeting Alpha guy but Beta Boy gets to wait for my pleasure.

          You go giiiiirrrrrlllll!

          [–]DoesNotMatterAnymore 13 points14 points  (1 child)

          Please don't link that shit, it's fucks me up every time i read it. Because for some reason i always read it, just to make sure i remember: AWALT.

          Me: I am so fucking lucky. I got married to a whore, that fucks like a prude.

          [–]17 Endorsed Contributortrudatness 7 points8 points  (0 children)

          Rollo breaks it down so damn simply right here:

          What we’re reading here is the script for negotiated desire. Her real desire isn’t for his satisfaction or any real resolution for the deception of her sexual pluralism, but rather a solipsistic maintaining of a normalcy for herself. Our author has no other rationalizations to fall back on, denial of his conditions are no longer sufficient, and he begins to realize a cruel red pill truth – you cannot negotiate genuine desire.

          [–]2asd1100 29 points30 points  (4 children)

          i don't know what your SMV is but 10 dates and attitude afterwards are inacceptable.

          Seriously dude, you are playing her game and she just used sex to get you back on track when you stoped following her rules. You are being set up royally here.

          [–]Career-Criminal 13 points14 points  (3 children)

          But you got to admit, he made progress and learned something.

          [–]2asd1100 1 point2 points  (2 children)

          No, she let him have it, the progress was all on her scedule.

          You are basically like a dog that argues: I won at the end because I got the treat.

          It's almost never about the sex, sex is easy for women.: do enough trick, be above a certain level of atractiveness, be interesting or valiadte the shit our of her and she will trow you a bone. But in the long run, you are being conditioned into being a comfortable partner that gets paid with sex, and you can't back out and say, we'll I only did it for the last 3 months, but I have my dignity. If you don't play the same game: setting terms for the relationship, you will win score the early pints but you will be steam rolled by the end of the game.

          Did he learn? He still thinks TRP got him laid, he thinks that having a hissy fit and then submitting to the pussy the moment those legs open is game.

          [–]Career-Criminal 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Ah man you're right but damn that is pessimistic.

          And OP's actions don't exactly sound like a "hissy fit", but I suppose it's possible that he didn't handle himself as gracefully as he described.

          Time will tell.

          [–]2asd1100 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          It's actually not pessimistic, with a ruthless game you can slay post wall pussy almost easier than college pussy without even leaving your house.

          You just can never underestimate a post wall woman's rulthless game. Compared to her desperation his actions where nothing more than a hissy fit.

          I have no doubt that OP is a man that has his life put together, but when it comes to women, we is just as foolish and short sighted as a horny teenager, just that women are much more ruthless at this level.

          [–][deleted] 47 points48 points  (18 children)

          You waited 10 dates?

          Wow you have some patience man, i make it an absolute rule never go have a 4th date with someone i havent fucked.

          And she'd have to be pretty hot to get to date 3.

          Bottom line, you and her both know shes guzzled the load of a dozen DJs and dealers before she met you, not fucking on the first date, alright, social convention. Maybe.

          But after that, bitch better be putting out or its game over. And frankly once you've made the decision to walk, if she asks why, be direct about it. If she doesnt drop her panties then, she may well over the course of the next week.

          [–]link5057 23 points24 points  (1 child)

          I get the feeling that being 40 can grow enough patience to wait a couple of weeks

          [–]squishles 3 points4 points  (0 children)


          That's why you have next lined up.

          [–][deleted]  (6 children)


            [–]1kingofpoplives 9 points10 points  (5 children)

            Girls can't stand to be NEXTed.

            They really do have enormous egos.

            [–]incraved 5 points6 points  (4 children)

            Why wouldn't they? They walk around in some high heels and tightass dress and get stares and oggles from 100 different guys in one day. Man, they are living a different life. A moderate woman who takes some care of herself can have sex by snapping her fingers.

            [–]1kingofpoplives 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            A moderate woman who takes some care of herself can have sex by snapping her fingers.

            For women, it's getting a guy to stick around, and pre-filtering out guys who won't stick around, that is the challenge.

            [–]Masonjarteadrinker2 0 points1 point  (2 children)

            It is pretty amazing when you think about it.

            [–]incraved 4 points5 points  (1 child)

            It's sex life on easy mode. I do think they still have as much of a hard time dating, though.

            [–]Masonjarteadrinker2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            I've been out of the "dating" game for almost 6 years man so I can't relate, still fucked a few girls though so I like to think it's not as hard as people make it out to be.

            [–]philobug 7 points8 points  (8 children)

            I'm confused. So you would prefer a woman with a low partner count, yet expect any girl should have sex with you in three dates or less? I've never quite been able to square these two ideals.

            [–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (5 children)

            This is such a typical BP troll response that never gets addressed.

            The reason guys don't want to want wait 10 dates to fuck a girl, is because they don't want to overinvest and become dependant on a woman. If you wait 10 dates to fuck her, she knows 100% you're beta bucks. Also, on top of this, any man semi-skilled in seduction knows one thing about women: they will fuck a man they truly desire right then and there on the first date, no exceptions (sorry guys no such thing as fuckin unicorns). So if that man isn't me then why the fuck should I waste another second of my life on her? And yes on top of that guys don't want a woman whose vagina has had a mile cock laid in it, as it would be nice to know that when a kid pops out there is at least a reasonable chance that it's mine. Do our ideals sometimes contradict? Yes, yes they do. Are they unreasonable? Perhaps, to an extent. Do I give a fuck? No.

            Why is this so fucking hard to understand?

            [–]philobug 8 points9 points  (1 child)

            I was merely pointing out that I had never heard a response to that particular contradiction, so thank you for providing one.

            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            To Pi gave a far more detailed answer than i could, so i will not contradict a thing he said.

            What i will say however, is that for me personally (And i recognize this is RP blasphemy) i have never put a tremendous amount of stock into the maxim that high partner counts discount a woman from being LTR material.

            Sure, they're a significant red flag, but for me, not an automatic deal breaker. Best girlfriend i ever had, in terms of being pleasant, attentive, faithful etc, had a partner count of 34 with me. At age 27.

            I don't doubt the science, i accept on average higher partner counts will tend to correlate with greater difficulty in pair bonding with a partner. But i believe it can be corrected for with a strong enough frame.

            Furthermore, any woman you meet in most circumstances is perfectly capable of lying about her partner number, unless you meet through some mutual connection you have little to no chance of finding out. If shes prepared to tell you its high, it is to me a reasonable display of honesty (Given that it has the potential to cost her greatly)

            Other posters wont agree, and that's fine. Its my personal belief.

            [–]17 Endorsed ContributorHumanSockPuppet 20 points21 points  (4 children)

            Review the freeze-out strategy for overcoming LMR.

            This chick is going to give you problems later on down the line, so next her. She's trying to reclaim her virginhood by rationalizing that giving you less of what you want is a way of showing you she cares. That's insane.

            [–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad 8 points9 points  (3 children)

            Not so sure about her giving problems. In this case, I think she put up a reasonable defensive wall as anti-slut, sexual-baiting to land a provider guy. That's a pretty standard opening gambit.

            It was OP's softness at offense (some residual BluePill Gentleman Game) that kept her barrier in play longer than it should have. Tolerating 10 dates screams provider guy status on his part. It also screams she's sperm hunting for a baby and ring by forcing him through that.

            Regarding her LMR, she might be one of those girls who wants her panties torn off roughly, not coaxed off gently. She was probably thinking to herself, "Damn, I like this guy. But I might have to give up on him if he doesn't escalate harder."

            [–]17 Endorsed ContributorHumanSockPuppet 16 points17 points  (2 children)

            It was OP's softness at offense (some residual BluePill Gentleman Game) that kept her barrier in play longer than it should have.

            Agreed. OP's mistake was pretty typical of a man who's slowly awakening.

            In this case, I think she put up a reasonable defensive wall as anti-slut, sexual-baiting to land a provider guy. That's a pretty standard opening gambit.

            Indeed. However, this outcome sets a precedent. He's already conceded territory by not reprimanding and punishing her rationalization outright, and she'll remember that. Odds are, she'll try to throw out further shit tests that he isn't yet ready for, and considering her age they'll be dangerous ones with baby entrapment written all over them.

            It's generally a bad idea to give an older woman a LTR unless she demonstrates unprompted good behaviour. But at 35 and with one "win" against him under her belt? This relationship is already on a downwards slope.

            If you're going to game a woman, it's best to have solid game from the beginning. If you make a mistake, you're better off ditching the bitch and starting fresh with a new one. That way, you've got a blank slate, and it gives you more approach practice, which is always good. A man should never stop approaching women, no matter how good his current plates are.

            OP should be out chasing 28-year-olds who are approaching the wall, not wall-crashers who have already come out the other side with severe head trauma.

            [–]_penseroso_[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            This is where my head is. I need more practice with TRP strategies.

            [–]17 Endorsed ContributorHumanSockPuppet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Consume the sidebar, post questions in /r/asktrp, or feel free to PM any of the endorsed contributors (myself included) and we'll be happy to lend advice.

            [–]awfuljokes 16 points17 points  (3 children)

            After the 10th date or so, I called her up and told her I didn't think it was going to work out, so let's just be friends. First screw-up. I wait three dates and if nothing happens after that then I send here a text message saying we seem better as friends. If you were Tom Brady, she would have sex in the first minute of talking but since you're John Smith, she'll make you wait until something better comes along for her, and if not, she'll settle for you.

            [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

            I wait three dates and if nothing happens after that then I send here a text message saying we seem better as friends.

            Why 3 dates and not 1? And why text them when you can tell it to their faces on the first date? You'd be surprised how effective this can be for turning situations around. I've pulled this twice in the last two weeks: "Sorry, but for me I want a woman that knows what she wants and doesn't fucking dick around about it, if you're not interested in me sexually there's the door." Or some variation of eloquently spoken "put out or get out."

            A long time ago I had the three date rule, then I decided to make a different rule: make them love you or hate on date one, I have to achieve one of these two before the date is over. And you'd be surprised how hard it can be to make someone hate you.

            The best thing is, this frees your mind from wallowing in bullshit and from the temptation of entertaning her hamster's insanity. It's tempting for a man to think "oh shit, she's hot, I should be careful and not fuck this up, give her till date 3 or so, maybe even date 5. As long as I'm smooth and don't fuck up I'm good to go." All the while forgetting that being genuine to your baser instincts is one of the prized characteristics of a man who is highly desired, and no man wants to wait 3 dates only to get shat on with "LJBF," because because she went out and met mr alpha and blew him in a public toilet the night before date 3.

            [–]awfuljokes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            I guess I meant to say I wait up to three dates. I'm set in my Tom Leykis school of thought. 90% of the girls usually put out after the second date anyways.

            The first date is coffee/dessert, the second date is usually to a park and then the third date is another dessert/drinks date. Nothing too fancy ever. If you take the girl out to a 5* place, the next place better be amazing as well and then the streak has to continue which will leave you bankrupt. I pretty much stay around places that cost a max of $20 total. Women love Panera, Noodles and Co. and quick serve Peruvian chicken. I only treat my friends to nice places with a waiter/waitress.

            [–]23490865243879526487 8 points9 points  (1 child)

            "See, aren't you glad we waited?"

            What the fuck man, it feels like I'm on 4chan reading something seemingly normal that turns out completely outlandish at the end.

            [–]some12talk2 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            extra points for those who figure out what type of question that is

            [–]myprimetime 7 points8 points  (0 children)

            unless you are aren't "dating" anyone

            [–][deleted]  (10 children)


              [–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 57 points58 points  (3 children)

              In the words of lonely island, doesn't matter, had sex. Props to the woman for keeping the validation train coming for as long as she did without having to put out. That's impressive at 35, if she's as hot as OP said that would reflect how she's able to successfully act like she's 25 despite being 35. Luckily, all is not lost, OP made sure the next train getting run on her would be his dick. OP dumped her, and she fucked him to get him back on the hook. Classic dread game. OP just needs to make sure once she gets too comfortable with him again that the sex doesn't dry up. If it does, treat her like a depleted oil well and get your drill the fuck out of there.

              [–]rubycando 22 points23 points  (1 child)


              In the end we should all admit that in our lives at some point we did something similar. Me? I "dated" a 36 years old ho for a year (I was 31, but I have a thing for milfs ... I hope is that, else I'm a even bigger idiot), AND MARRIED HER BEFORE WE HAD SEX. That's the love story between me and my second wife btw. Yes boys and girls I was that guy. OP did a little too much work for pussy, but, compared to me, he is a fucking winner.

              One year, no sex, I bought the "I wanna wait until we are married" lie. Thank God she didn't go for "I'm a virgin" too, because, believe me, I would have bought it too.

              Looking back, I would rate The Red Pill information, among the top 3 things that have a huge positive impact on my life. And I haven't done the other 2 yet, I just feel better saying it like that lol.

              [–]1kingofpoplives 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              In the words of lonely island, doesn't matter, had sex.

              TRUTH. But he probably could have gotten the same result had he dumped her after the 3rd or 4th date, or simply ceased contact for a week at that stage.

              OP just needs to make sure once she gets too comfortable with him again that the sex doesn't dry up.

              Good luck with that one, OP. I advise delaying any and all forms of commitment until she dumps you.

              [–]_penseroso_[S] 19 points20 points  (2 children)

              You're right. I only read the red pill books a few weeks ago, right around the same time I met this girl. I made mistakes and waited too long as I swallowed the pill. I won't make that mistake again.

              Honestly if I hadn't read this stuff I may have kept waiting... Sigh

              [–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad 12 points13 points  (0 children)

              Good thing you clued in to the power game. One of her shit tests is to exert her power - "My pussy, my rules." Basically, she pulled the V-card and you caved.

              Once you finally came to your senses and pulled the C-card, she caved. Knowing this shit (relational dynamics) ahead of time would have been a big advantage.

              [–]merkmerk73 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              It was a lesson to learn from with a success story at the end - nothing wrong with that right ?

              [–]skoobled 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Have to agree here. My rule these days is first date is AT LEAST invite her back, even if you expect a no. Make out is essential. 2nd date we're going to bed or you're wasting my time

              And they say chivalry is dead

              [–]Mike 6 points7 points  (0 children)

              It worked out exactly the way she wanted/planned.

              [–]TeasingPenguin 4 points5 points  (6 children)

              And the next day, she hamstered away, saying "See, aren't you glad we waited?"

              Just jogged a memory, same thing happened to me in my beta days except It lasted 6 months, only when I had enough and slept with another girl, the first girl slept with me the next day and said," See I told you it would be soon"


              I appreciate TRP every day

              [–]Gross_Guy 0 points1 point  (5 children)

              I'm fwb with a girl right now and she's made me wait 6 months for sex currently, she has a really big soft ass and gives great blowjobs. I really want to fuck her again but I'm getting tired of asking and waiting, what should I do?

              [–]2Red_August 4 points5 points  (0 children)

              You mean you have a "Friend Without Benefit". What's stopping you from looking for other ones? Ones with less-big firmer asses perhaps?

              [–]Ochreata 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Reading this thread didn't give you any ideas? Your effort/reward ratio is skewed in her favour as a result of your lack of resolve and that fact that you are more interested in her than she in you. You need to adjust, pull that back, and as she is just a fwb you can do it hard and fast like op.

              [–]squishles 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              No you have a girl who can't string a proper orbiter along; who's sucking your dick to compensate for it.

              Not a bad setup, but really wouldn't quite call it fwb she's more like your bj buddy.

              [–]TeasingPenguin 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              dump her and tell her why, ultimatum, "I don't get sex and it's boring me, if you don't put out I'm gonna find someone who will"

              Worked for me twice. Once for that 6 months of waiting and another time in an LTR when sex started to die down

              You have to stick to your word otherwise you look weak and your word doesn't mean anything anymore, if she doesn't come back to give in to you, move on and find someone else who will put out literally, there are plenty out there.

              [–]Gross_Guy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Thanks bros, I just told her I'm done waiting, and that I'm done with her altogether due to no sex and that I don't care about the outcome anymore, she can either fuck or fuck off.

              [–]1Zackcid 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              LOL that last minute hamstering. Always gotta get the last word, eh? Anything to make her feel like she had the upper hand in the grand scheme of things.

              [–]OneTouchHowMuch 3 points4 points  (1 child)

              "See, aren't you glad we waited?"

              You were the one waiting. I was having plenty of sex without you.

              [–]DanG3 4 points5 points  (0 children)

              This post is giving me Pre-Red-Pill PTSD flashbacks. 10 dates? - At her age ... or ANY age? Really?!!! Run!

              [–]17 Endorsed ContributorJP_Whoregan 20 points21 points  (1 child)

              "See, aren't you glad we waited?"

              That was a shit test.

              "Well actually I dumped you, and now we're back together, and this was the first date. Waited for what?"

              [–]1cover20 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Only problem with this is saying they are back together. He should bang her a few more times then tell her he's decided that they shouldn't get back together, not sexually compatible.

              [–]17 Endorsed Contributortrudatness 13 points14 points  (4 children)

              Don't make any long term plans with this one.

              If you have to dread game her to put out after 10 dates, think about how much of a struggle it's going to be once she gets GF comfortable or worse - wife comfortable.

              You're looking at life of sexual frustration where you constantly have to apply hard core dread style pressure on her in order to get sex - and when you get it - it won't be anything special. You won't feel desired at all.

              If she had the hots for you, then she would have long fucked you before 10 dates. This reveals that she doesn't see you as an object of desire, but rather a beast of burden she can transactionally negotiate with for what she want$.

              10 dates and a dread game fuck proves one thing and one thing only, that she's establishing the sexual boundary at a level where she doesn't have to do too much "work" to gain the benefit of the relationship.

              The only way I can see this dynamic changing in any way, is if you spin her as a plate and you completely change her assessment of your SMV - which is a total hail mary.

              You have to come to the honest realization that this woman isn't concerned about your happiness. She's only concerned about her own and you are a means to an end.

              I mean 10 dates? That's excruciating. During that time she had neither the sexual attraction nor the necessary concern for your happiness enough to engage in sexual intimacy with you.

              It was only when she was faced with an undesirable outcome did she fuck you.

              Once these things fully process in your mind the oneitis should fade out and it will make it easier to move on to women who are more worthwhile.

              [–]1cover20 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              +1 from me.

              She's at the wall and wants her beta bucks. If she has to fuck to obtain that, she'll fuck. She may have spent a couple days considering her options, which are not nearly what she hoped they'd be at this age. See this article which is the subject of another thread:


              That's quite a hot 30 year old who is having trouble keeping a 40 year old man. OP may need to upgrade the quality level he targets. He might be surprised how interested those women are.

              [–]OmegaRed_Pill 7 points8 points  (1 child)

              This stuff works, boys.

              This stuff works. Whatever it is you're doing, isn't this stuff.

              10 dates with no ass from a post-wall girl no matter how hot is not a good look bro.

              [–]LasherDeviance 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              That's what I was thinking. Nothing worked. She hit him up because she was DTF and didn't have any other options, and knew that he would do it.

              [–]Gami_Lon 5 points6 points  (2 children)

              I have some friends who are capable of waiting ten dates for sex, and every one of them simply doesn't enjoy sex.

              I love sex and I would fuck on the first date if it was socially acceptable. No way in hell would I wait five dates for sex, much less ten.

              TLDR: Any woman who makes you wait ten dates simply doesn't like sex.

              [–]Joshreece 8 points9 points  (0 children)

              Or she is already getting it elsewhere.

              [–]2Red_August 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              It is socially acceptable to fuck on the first date.

              [–]General_Fear 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Even the bible says so:

              "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. "For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened"

              Matthew 7:7

              [–]_DiscoNinja_ 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              "If I'm gonna eat some stale as cracker jacks... I'LL EAT some stale ass cracker jacks, but I want them RIGHT NOW!" - Papa Patrice

              [–]Try_2 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              I'm 33. i can't stand it when women say they want to wait. Wait for what? We're not teenagers anymore. We're not living under our parents' roofs anymore. We've both been there and done that many times. Let's drop the games; Let's drop the demure hard-to-get routine, and let me fuck your brains out.

              [–]1 Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              Oh god. Ten dates of boring solipsitic gibberish without getting my dick wet?

              I will never forget what Patrice O'Neal had to say about this issue:


              Congratulations on solving this problem for you nonetheless. I've read that you started transitioning while you started with her. Good job.

              [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              After the 10th date or so

              ... dude wtf ... I mean I'm glad you made it there eventually but you should have dropped this bomb waaaay sooner. For newcomers I usually recommend a 3 date limit, for me personally its one date, occassionally two depending on logistics / circumstances. Your goal on a date is to either make her fuck you or slap you, if you let bitches wallow in "I think I like him" land they will do that shit forever! Why? Because when they finally do fuck you it garauntees more investment on your part and hence they are securing a better chance at your resources. The name of their game is prolong sex, the name of your game is slap a bitch in the face and tell her to gtfo if she's gonna act like a fucking 15yo.

              [–]Pac0_Seiei 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              It's amazing her level of hamstering didn't rip the fabric of the space time or cure cancer. At an utter loss for words here.

              [–]∞ Red Pill VisionaryRollo-Tomassi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Prime example of this:

              Iron Rule of Tomassi #3

              Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.

              When a woman makes you wait for sex you are not her highest priority. Sexuality is spontaneous chemical reaction between two parties, not a process of negotiation. It’s sex first, then relationship, not the other way around. A woman who wants to fuck you will find a way to fuck you. She will fly across the country, crawl under barbwire, climb in through your second story bedroom window, fuck the shit out of you and wait patiently inside your closet if your wife comes home early from work – women who want to fuck will find a way to fuck. The girl who tells you she needs to be comfortable and wants a relationship first is the same girl who fucked the hot guy in the foam cannon party in Cancun on spring break just half an hour after meeting him.

              [–]sumdumguy-throwaway 4 points5 points  (1 child)

              don't mean to be harsh, but if you gave her the tingles she would not have waited more than 2 or 3 dates, if that.

              [–]1kingofpoplives 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Truth. She has OP lined up for a provisioning role. Expect regular but unenthusiastic sex until commitment attained. After that, tumble weeds.

              [–]TyrotoxismX 3 points4 points  (1 child)

              No sexy time by second date = can them.

              [–]1Zanford 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              You DID wait. Her "see, aren't you glad we waited?" isn't hamstering. Except that you're obv not 'glad'.

              Dump her as soon as the novelty of fucking her wears off (be sure to get anal, swallowing, etc. out of her). Do not develop feelings. If she teased you this long, she's just not that into you and/or she pegs you as beta bux.

              [–]cali_gunner 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              "I'm stubborn in the worst way, so I don't follow up, if I don't get the pussy the first date." -Lloyd Banks, The Set Up (remix)


              Don't be a set up, OP.

              [–]_valtiel_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              So... Sir what you're saying it gets harder even at 30+? 10 dates, should have told her she was being a prude after the 4th.

              [–]leodoestheopposite 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Are you still Just Friends? I hope so, good benefits!

              [–]some12talk2 0 points1 point  (2 children)

              "See, aren't you glad we waited?"

              In 10 dates worth of effort you could have fucked at least three women in their 20s. Are you actually glad she made you wait? If no tell her.

              [–]1niczar 4 points5 points  (1 child)

              He just discovered TRP. Second he applies it, bam.

              [–]some12talk2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              I'm saying the bp answer to her question/observation is to nod agreement or "yes, darling, I'm glad you made me wait"

              rp it and "yes, we should have waited 50 dates, how hot would have that been?"

              [–]1tombreck2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              I was thinking that she was just going to show up the bar and bitch at you but instead you sealed the deal. Good post

              [–]FortunateBum 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              I just want to know what you're going to do next. How do you feel about the whole thing? You dumping her?

              [–]chadchadington 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              this X2

              I nominate post of the day

              [–]mheyk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              10 dates? Leykis 101 homie.

              [–]TRPdating -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              "After the 10th date or so"

              Insane that you waited that long for a girl past the wall... What were you thinking, man?