top 200 commentsshow all 213

[–]1pcadrian 405 points406 points  (73 children)

Start securing those assets man.

[–]BadJokeHour 221 points222 points  (47 children)

just by the way he worded his post his marriage actually seems salvageable and his wife is just using divorce as a massive shit test. he sounds like he maintained frame well at the end. I wish him the best, for him and for the sake of his kid.

[–]down_with_whomever 58 points59 points  (4 children)

Right. Until she's not.

She was already willing to go there. Even if it was a shit test - she still went there.

[–]pl231 4 points5 points  (1 child)

it's not even that she went there, she went much past that. this throws up much bigger red flags to me than the typical woman acting like a child and throwing a tantrum saying it once.

[–]stimulated_narcolept 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, this is like one of those situations where a girl threatens to kill herself if you ever leave her. Zugzwang.

[–]IShitDiamonds 1 point2 points  (0 children)

it's not that she was willing to go there, it was that she was using it to scare him into doing as she pleased.

[–]IE6_User 189 points190 points  (9 children)

Actually, that is not where the evidence takes us at all. There are two major red flags:

  1. "She had a business dinner that night and came home around 11 PM."

  2. She is threatening divorce over a one day late FedEx package

In this case, the evidence clearly shows she has already found someone she feels is better than her husband. She is getting pressure from the other guy to divorce her husband, she is resisting that pressure because of fear of change, fear of hurting their child, etc. But she's so close to going for it that one minor thing pushes her into the divorce camp.

I've seen this literally a half dozen times with friends over the last several years. Threatening divorce over minor things almost always means they are cheating and just looking for an excuse to end it without it being 100% their fault.

[–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 29 points30 points  (0 children)

Agreed. If the wife isn't already under some guy, she has been in the recent past. It sounds very familiar to my first ex, and she was fucking any willing dick she could find. She did everything she could to make it all my fault, the projection is a dead giveaway.

[–]txroller 36 points37 points  (2 children)

I think you nailed it. OP should look at bank accounts and other liquid assets. Also, look around for a lawyer, first visit is free for consultation.

[–]GarandTheftAvto 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Also, OP should know that the old "visit every lawyer in town to screw her out of good local counsel" thing has been explicitly and strongly frowned upon my judges in some U.S. jurisdictions. So don't listen to any internet lawyers that tell you to go around to various lawyers in order to box them into a conflict with your wife later. If I can find the source I will change "frowned upon" to "illegal" in this post. Will update if I find the source.

Edit: See my post below.

[–]some12talk2 53 points54 points  (0 children)

she may not be having a physical affair but she could have a "backup husband" or be having an emotional affair


[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Yeah I agree with you. She is totally hamstering a reason to put a divorce blame on him when really she has a throbbing dick that she want but doesn't want to feel like she is giving up everything for it. So, she is trying to find a reason to get the divorce so she can AF. Example: "Yeah he was a dick and treated me and my family bad. I mean he didn't even send my mom a gift we bought her even though he said he would. He is a selfish asshole." And that's how the hamster goes into 6th gear. This guy needs to get his boots by the door and secure his assets immediately. But I do think he handled it well. He took the mature RP way and didn't let the threat phase him and made sure to let the hamster know that himself and the kid was his priority.

[–]1johnnight 16 points17 points  (0 children)

My reading is that she is just using the divorce threat to make him submissive and run errands for her.

She is like a wife beater terrorizing the partner.

[–]TRWolf 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Red flags, yes. Evidence, no.

Women will often use the divorce card in the same way that teens will attempt suicide to get attention. They don't want a divorce, but they do want you step into line.

[–]ioncehadsexinapool 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Threatening divorce over minor things almost always means they are cheating and just looking for an excuse to end it without it being 100% their fault.

Fucking cunts dude. I've witnessed it so many times. I'm never fucking getting married

[–]enteralterego[S] 47 points48 points  (31 children)

I agree.

I don't think there is an affair. There aren't any unexplained times away. I know she was at a business meeting because there are pix of her with her colleagues on facebook.

If I did suspect an affair, I wouldn't post here. I would simply get a divorce and post about plate theory in a few weeks.

There are no real assets to talk about, apart from the flat we live in, and will still be the place where my son lives if we separate - so I'm ok with that.

Thanks for your kind words.

[–]Reddthrown 15 points16 points  (13 children)

Dude - she's an executive assistant. In non-PC words, a secretary. If she's not home early, there's something unexplained going on.

[–]Racefiend 13 points14 points  (10 children)

She works as an exec. assistant for a very rich heiress in a mid size company

You must have never worked in a large company. A low level secretary, yeah they'll go home on time. Her boss sounds like she's towards the top of the company, though. Those secretaries usually work their asses off.

[–]enteralterego[S] 15 points16 points  (7 children)

This is accurate. Plus my wife used be a corporate accounts person for a large multinational and she is much more capable than a secretary (speaks 5 languages for starters) so she handles a lot of stuff that normally should be handled by marketing, PR people etc.

They have a fair in Paris next month so they're busy. I have no doubts about her whereabouts - in reasonable boundaries.

Nobody can ever know if their SO is having a quickie in the server room with the IT guy. To base any reasoning on these unfounded assumptions is crazy in my book.

Plus her boss (female) wants to keep her around as much as possible (as someone she can trust to get out of tight spots - like a handler) , and routinely invites her to business dinners with clients etc. Even I am invited occasionally.

Like I said elsewhere in the thread, if I had doubts about her fidelity I would be talking to a lawyer instead of posting here.

I appreciate the concern and I can relate to how it looks on paper, but to the best of my knowledge (and obviously everyone else who's on the thread) she is not having an affair.

[–]Reddthrown 2 points3 points  (4 children)

You know your situation better than us, but it sounds very unusual.

I've certainly never heard of the PA's husband being invited to a dinner with clients (or are you talking about the Christmas party?). Also, perhaps your wife should look for a more rewarding job, if she has all these skills.

[–]enteralterego[S] 4 points5 points  (3 children)

No, a regular dinner meeting with clients or people from their ad agency etc. When they want to make it somewhat informal, they invite more people so it's not strictly business but a "get to know you - you get to know us" kind of thing.

I'm a good conversationalist on a broad number of subjects.

[–]snakeob 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think this batch understands, that type of job is more of a buffer then an assistant. Or have worked with someone exceptionally wealthy, and understand their needs.

You held frame well enough good work. I would however explore invoicing yourself for some music expenses from a corporation in the Caribbean, if you have a friend who you trust, make them an officer so you can transfer your shares in the company to them in case of divorce.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Where I'm from an EA practically wipes the executives ass 24/7. Some EAs are pretty much never truly "off work" unless the VP is passed out drunk and the calendar is taken care of.

[–][deleted]  (13 children)


    [–]variableLt 12 points13 points  (0 children)

    I second this. I had few affairs on my workplace with married women and there is always an opportunity. For some of them, the riskier the scenario, the hornier they become.

    [–]SovietRaptor 28 points29 points  (4 children)

    You are using the logic of "If you can't disprove it, it has to exist", despite there being a fair amount of evidence to the contrary. I don't see how it could be healthy for your state of mind to just automatically assume that your wife is cheating on you.

    [–][deleted]  (3 children)


      [–]antariusz 21 points22 points  (0 children)

      I've banged a few married chicks. This is the kind of stuff they would pull with their husbands while I was banging them.

      I kinda feel the need to paraphrase kanye, I ain't saying she's a slut, but she ain't sleepin' alone.

      Women need intimacy. If she's not getting it/giving it to you, she's getting it somewhere else. I mean, your post reads almost like a "troll" it's such a stereotypical AF/BB scenario. I hope for your sake that it's not a true FR.

      [–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

      You are logical, women aren't.

      One time as a teenager I entered my house and didn't say "Hello" to my mother, who works as a doctor. Over about two hours she went into a rage spiral, crying, yelling, calling relatives, hysterical screaming to get the neighbors to notice, and eventually calling the cops on me. Keep in mind I was a fat 15-year-old boy whose life revolved around Starcraft.

      Threatening divorce over a late FedEx package is absolutely plausible. Women make mountains out of molehills all the time. Anyone who doesn't know this doesn't have much experience with them.

      [–]TRWolf 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      Yes, women will do this. They will also pull the divorce card for other reasons.

      It's a common thread that when a guy takes the red pill in a marriage, this freaks the wife out. Her comfort erodes and she panics. She will lash out with all kinds of crazy things, and it often comes to a head in a huge blowout fight. It has nothing to do with another man in this case.

      [–]enteralterego[S] 8 points9 points  (4 children)

      This can happen with any woman and the only realistic way to secure yourself from it is to not have any relationship at all.

      Which is not realistic.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)


        [–]rpscrote 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        thank you for fighting the good fight here dude. There's a SHITLOAD of BP gerbiling going on here, so it's nice to see you actually laying down some truth...

        [–]rpscrote 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        The fuck are you talking about? It's COMPLETELY realistic to not have any relationship at all. Tons of extraordinarily high value men don't find women worth the effort. Like Nikola Tesla for example.

        I agree with the conclusion that you accept the risk when entering a relationship.

        [–]New_Horiz0ns 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        6 figure salary? What industry do you work in?

        [–]harkrank 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        It takes just a few minutes to cheat.

        [–]Ornlu_Wolfjarl 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        While I don't think that she is having an affair of any kind, it's very likely that she is being influenced by someone, directly or indirectly. Sounds like that her life is filled with people who do much better than her, which means she might be feeling unhappy about how her life ended up and she is likely having a mid-life crisis. Especially if she has friends who are single, she might be looking at them and thinking they must be happier (or one of them might be a douchebag and putting words in her ears).

        In my opinion, you should try to be less confrontational with her. I know this isn't the kind of advice people expect to see in this subreddit, but if she is feeling inferior to everyone else in her life, your tries to defend yourself might be deemed too defensive in her opinion. Especially when you are right. That's how women work in long-term relationships. I think after the talk you had, you should seriously ask her what she thinks you are doing wrong and see if you can avoid it. At the same time you should mention how she makes you feel frustrated and explain to her that this is probably not what you were looking for when you got married.

        My cousin and her husband had a similar situation a few years ago, and it ended up breaking up their marriage because no one was willing to compromise with the other. Also, try not to use the kid as a reason not to divorce. While it's logical to think about the kid, it might cause either of you to come to resenting him and each other for the situation, which will cause even more drama when he starts turning into an adult.

        [–]burrowing 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        When I have a dinner/evening event for work I am pretty much on the nail home between 10:30 and 11 and I assure you I'm not banging anyone I work with. (Ever.)

        [–]MRB88 16 points17 points  (11 children)

        Even without an affair, protect those assets.

        She bluffed, you called. Basically you took the power away from her. How can a woman get the power back?

        In my mind: She consciously thought about a divorce for the first time when you stood your ground and is now planning on how to best pull it all off. If she wasn't planning on it before, she is planning on it now.

        Lock down the liquid assets. Look into creating a series of trusts (At least one for your kid). If you have property in the house, document it and the ownership now. I'd also back up your computer/all emails and, often overlooked, get the copy of all your important papers - then put all this in a safe deposit box she doesn't have access to.

        Find a GOOD divorce attorney ASAP and tell him/her all of this.

        [–]enteralterego[S] 6 points7 points  (6 children)

        There are no assets to lock down.

        Only the flat we live in with a mortgage on it. Even if she keeps the whole thing, I don't really care because

        1-her parents gave us our down-payment about 8 years ago when we bought our first home. 1/3 of the price of the house came from her parents. 2-My kid will still live there.

        There are no other assets to talk about. No joint accounts etc. No stock options other than what my company gives me each year as a bonus - which are in an account overseas and frankly not a big number.

        If we divorce I'll only pay alimony or child support etc. Which I can afford.

        [–]JohnnyLawman 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        so how often do y'all argue?

        [–]Frdl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        een explicitly and strongly frowned upon my judges in some U.S. jurisdictions. So don't listen to any internet lawyers that tell you to go around to various lawyers in order to box them into a conflict with your wife later. If I can find the source I will change "frowned upon" to "illegal" in this post. Will update if I find the source.

        How do you make 3x the money she does, and still have no assets?

        [–]rpscrote 0 points1 point  (3 children)

        Stop making excuses, jesus christ. Unless you're a divorce attorney, you probably haven't thought of everything.

        Worst case scenario if you go to the lawyer: you're out a couple hundred bucks and a few hours of time.

        Worst case scenario if you're wrong: You get divorce raped for half your shit, the things you thought were secure aren't and get sold off in order to be split, you pay alimony AND child support and suddenly you've got 1/3rd the income you used to have.

        [–]enteralterego[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

        We dont live in the US and there is no such thing as a divorce rape here. On the contrary there are laws against "unjustifiable enrichment" . If a woman marries a rich man, she only is entitled to roughly half of what he makes after they married. What he had before, is still his etc.

        [–]rpscrote 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        My point 100% still stands. I doubt you know the laws of your country as well as a divorce attorney knows the laws of your country. What if there is an exception you don't know about that you fall into? What can you possibly lose by verifying that you're correct with a professional who's job is to know everything about divorce laws?

        [–]enteralterego[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I agree with that point, but divorce rape simply doesn't happen in our country as it does in the USA. I have learned one thing though: Never marry an American.

        [–]nakedcows 1 point2 points  (3 children)

        how do you go about "lock down the liquid assets"? does a a guy just gives everything to his children to protect his assets from his exwife.

        [–]rpscrote 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        You get a lawyer who tells you how to do it legit so that it will stick. In the US there are fradulent transfer laws that will clawback money you stick anywhere if you did it to hide assets for a divorce. They will order you to transfer the money back -- they have jurisdiction over you even if they don't have jurisdiction over the trust. If you dont, you are held in contempt of court and fined for every day of noncompliance. You can be jailed for it. Yes -- even in civil contempt.

        [–]harkrank 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Offshore accounts and trusts.

        [–]MRB88 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        I recommend trusts over offshore accounts. Technically, you can set it up so you don't actually own the trust that holds your assets.

        I know the basics but am a bit out of my depth with much more than the basics. A lawyer who specializes in asset protection could tell you all the methods.

        [–]otiswild 6 points7 points  (3 children)

        Start taking meetings with the best divorce attorneys in your area, a paid consultation should be enough to establish conflict of interest should your wife pursue divorce further..

        [–]GarandTheftAvto 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        I'm currently looking for my source but please stop giving out this advice with the implication that introducing conflicts into a spouse's search for counsel is a wise idea. It is not, it can lead to civil liability and enormous amount of prejudicial treatment from judges in the U.S. system that men cannot afford in divorce court.

        Edit: Found it.

        A while back I asked for advice on a good divorce attorney in another sub. Someone said:

        "You don't have to hire the best or most expensive attorney. You need to consult with the top family attorneys in town. The lawyer cannot represent your ex to be if you've discussed your marriage with them. It's a conflict of interest. Read up on it, there are a few tricks you can pull to help even the playing field"

        Based on the advice I got I spent the next few weeks talking with like 30 divorce attorneys in town, so that my wife and her dad would not be able to hire one. I never hired an attorney myself because I could not afford one but my wife found one anyway.

        Apparently they found out what I did, probably because it was so hard for her to get an attorney, and today I just got hit with a motion for attorneys fees saying that what I did was abuse of process, an attempt to deprive and interfere with justice, bad faith, and a bunch of other stuff. And that I have to pay part of her attorney fees because I made it more expensive for her.

        The post has since been removed but this is an issue I've seen before elsewhere. I will update again if I can find sources for outside Utah jurisdiction but I think you can see the point.

        [–]getfuckingreal 7 points8 points  (0 children)

        I too watched The Sopranos

        [–]enteralterego[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

        The law doesn't work like that in the country we live , but thanks for the advice.

        [–]Red_Pill_Theory 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        At this point in time isn't it almost impossible to secure them? A forensic accountant would be able to find anything he tries to hide away.

        Which I suppose leads to the idea that any of you who decide to marry, start putting stuff aside from day one just in case. Along with a prenup, of course.

        [–]lottosharks 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Once she starts threatening divorce, take it very seriously that something is amiss.

        Take pictures of everything.

        Begin hoarding CASH (no paper trail). Even think about storing the cash off the property in case you are "evicted" (she suddenly gets exclusive use).

        Cancel any joint credit cards. It may be useful to get the saved passwords on your computer (look in Google Chrome settings). File for divorce...

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

        Can someone plan for divorce? Like, let's say, he quits his job (making sure he can get it back), files divorce. Now, his wife is liable to pay alimony to him. (He can join the job after that).

        Will this work? I am not from western country, so I don't know the laws.

        [–]1 MMachiavellianRed 0 points1 point  (4 children)

        You've been shadow banned by reddit dude.

        [–]EdsonH 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        This reddit shadowbanning bullshit needs to be exposed and thoroughly condemned.

        [–]stoicly_whimsical 44 points45 points  (2 children)

        Speaking from experience.

        When your woman in a relationship is saying she wants something or you to do things.

        It's not usually what she's actually talking about. She's annoyed, upset, bitter, resentful or whatever emotion she feels and to rationalise and justify it, comes up with a reason for it to be so.

        Not. "I'm feeling unhappy so I've been self analysing and need to spend some time on my hobbies to unwind".

        More like. "I'm feeling unhappy and it must be that enteralterego doesn't take me on holidays."

        I was copping more arguments and resentment when I was actually doing more housework and helping out more. Go figure. Doesn't make sense logically but I understand it now.

        The difference is instead of just doing what was said I just flat out said "No. I appreciate what you do around the house and am thankful for it. I try and help out as much as possible but if I'm working or busy too bad. I will do what I can, when I can but it will be my way and in my own time."

        Obviously it also is a test and being a door mat and doing everything asked is usually the wrong answer, even though sometimes it is based on some degrees of truth.

        Also on the "I want a divorce" bit. I've found those sort of threats or similar are a bit of a mix of a test and power play. Essentially do what she wants or she will threaten you with losing her so you will cave and do what she wants. But then also, on the other side of the coin, a desire for you to call her on her bullshit and put her in her place.

        [–]TestosteroneFilled 7 points8 points  (1 child)

        The Way of the Superior Man.

        This book is the shit. It talks about relationships a lot and your womans true desires. I recommend it to everyone. Also as redpill as it gets.

        [–]enteralterego[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I have it on my kindle and I'll bump it up in the list.

        [–]17 Endorsed ContributorArchwinger 38 points39 points  (2 children)

        You explained way too damn much.

        She didn't hear your logic and words. She heard that you were explaining yourself to her, which meant that you care, you thought you had to convince her, and that managing her thoughts and feelings ranks highly on your priority list.

        That's why she was nicer. You thought you were being a badass, but you were actually qualifying yourself to her, which validated her. Explaining yourself in thorough detail like that felt exactly the same to her as "please don't divorce me i love you."

        [–]1 Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 9 points10 points  (0 children)

        You explained way too damn much.

        She didn't hear your logic and words. She heard that you were explaining yourself to her, which meant that you care, you thought you had to convince her, and that managing her thoughts and feelings ranks highly on your priority list.

        Exactly my thoughts.

        It would have completely sufficed to say something along

        "I truly wouldn't appreciate a divorce, but if you think that this will significantly better your life, you've gotta do what you've gotta do and I will follow along.

        I think a beer would better my life now. See you later."

        [–]crestingwave 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        Exactly. She's not interested in logic. Just the "emotional truth" under everything he's saying.

        [–]slcjosh 49 points50 points  (18 children)

        The biggest problem I have with divorce and the divorce rate in this country is how bad it FUCKS WITH YOUR KIDS. I have seen it first hand with so many close friends and no one ever talks about it.

        I'm sorry, but if you are 16 or younger and your parents traumatic as fuck. Some of the smartest, brightest kids I knew lost their way when their folks split. It's a sad reality.

        Fractures like that, as a young, developing adult can really fuck you up, and it happens more often than it should.

        But when I bring up these thoughts people call me a misogynist...

        [–]enteralterego[S] 23 points24 points  (1 child)

        Fractures like that, as a young, developing adult can really fuck you

        Unless there is some real abuse going on in the house (alcoholic parent, physical and emotional abuse, domestic violence etc) I agree 100%.

        One thing that stuck with me from "No more Mr nice guy" (the book) was how kids rationalized all the bad stuff happening around them as somehow being their fault.

        I now take extra effort to make sure my son has no unnecessary guilt.

        [–]mchlyxhn 10 points11 points  (0 children)

        It really depends on the child. My parents got divorced when I was 8, and never did I beat myself up over it. Of course, I was resentful towards my mother for a while but of course, you can't expect a child to look at things other than in black and white, hero and villain.

        It's commendable that you're looking out for your son. Sad to say that you can't say the same for your wife.

        [–]EdsonH 13 points14 points  (5 children)

        I agree with you. I was a kid who lost his father at an early age. I grew up with a single mom trying to make it. I've had to figure out what being a man means all on my own. It has been very difficult for me.

        I don't think any "father figure" could have done a sufficient job. A real father is a valuable thing, at least for a male.

        My best friend of 20 years had a stable home life and his parents have been together the entire time. He had a redpill dad. Although he's not redpill himself, he has had all the important elements present in his life. He had a source he could respect, who could instruct him and provide the security he needed to grow without every adventure being an all-in pass/fail proposition.

        That is invaluable. I don't feel like people understand the importance of biological parents.

        Who cares if idiots call you a misogynist? Family is important. People who act like it isn't probably aren't intelligent people.

        I've watched my mother, even to this day, hamster through several relationships. Mostly all the relationships were objectively bad. Mom wanted to be a "helper." She has a subconscious sensor for picking up trash I can pick up on at the first eye contact. Ironically, the one guy she did find who was good, and stable, was too "conservative" for her liking, so she got rid of him fast. He was a classic redpill who had his shit together.

        I'm much older now, but I've never known what it's like to have a non-broken home. I'm not homeless. I have heat, clean water, a bed and food. But those things don't make a home.

        [–]antariusz 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        I sadly had a similar experience watching my mother's terrible relationships as I was growing up. I VOWED never to act like the assholes that treated my mom like trash (She actually MARRIED a drug user that cheated on her and gave her AIDS) ... And I ended up a virgin until 26 before I found PUA material.

        [–]asanonsb 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        I watched my mom scramble for any shred of affection from her relationships after my parents split, and she quickly found out that nobody wanted her. She had multiple relationships with loser guys and eventually hamstered her way into fucking our pastor. She's now a lesbian (lol) who has had multiple unstable relationships with no end in sight. It's surprising how much of a mess selfish women create for themselves when they give up their supportive husbands.

        My dad was an emotional robot and a beta people-pleaser from growing up with a severely alcoholic father and overbearing mother, but he has always had a strong moral center and incredible work ethic. He found a woman pretty quickly (single mother who uses him and his money endlessly, but she's a hippy and probably puts out on the regular so go dad) and has been married 10 years already.

        I knew my parents weren't attracted to each other for a long time before they split, but that doesn't mean my mom was any less selfish for splitting our family up, and it has taken me a long time to realize just how badly she's fucked with my life. Living primarily with her emotionally overbearing presence (relying on your son as a source for validation is absolutely fucking pathetic) during middle and high schools turned me into the biggest beta fuck ever (WoW-playing and hentai-fapping engineering major), and I am now only really starting to connect to my masculinity because of it.

        [–]alpha_n3rd 4 points5 points  (2 children)

        Shit like this is why I've decided to stay with my fat bitchy wife.

        [–]BluepillProfessor 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        If you don't already know, get her to the gym and read MMSL.

        [–]alpha_n3rd 1 point2 points  (0 children)


        done & sex god & way of sup male & bang & day bang & sidebar & top threads

        get her to the gym

        working on it

        It still kills me to think how much better I could have done if I hadn't gotten oneitis for her

        [–]wakingslowdiver 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        im a kid from divorced parents, raised by a single mother.

        you are completely right. no/poor father figure will fuck you up for the long term.

        [–]polyethene -4 points-3 points  (7 children)

        I disagree. Speaking from personal experience and seeing others around me I can tell you that kids are incredibly resilient. In most cases a calm single parent household is better than a dramatic/argumentative two parent household. There is also the option of father still being around and having a positive influence on the children, albeit from an arms length.

        [–]eccentricrealist 4 points5 points  (1 child)

        A calm single parent household is only better if there was physical/emotional abuse in the other household. Otherwise it's better to not be a bitch and fix your problems.

        [–]polyethene 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I based my earlier comment on the assumption that an unhappy marriage ultimately resulted in a physical/emotional abusive household by way of arguments, alleged infidelity (on either side) and more importantly fathers being put down setting a bad example for their sons. However I agree with you, ideally it would be better to solve marital problems. Even more ideally, one would not get married in the first place.

        [–]IE6_User 7 points8 points  (2 children)

        I can tell you that kids are incredibly resilient.

        You're right! That's why when I'm walking from point A to point B, I never deviate from a straight line even if there is a kid in my way. I just stomp right over them. Because that is easier for me and the kid is resilient so he'll heal. Eventually.

        In most cases a calm single parent household is better than a dramatic/argumentative two parent household.

        Haha yeah. Ya know what's even better? A calm two parent household. You're two adults that made a commitment to each other. Act like it.

        Anyway, congratulations on espousing every feminist talking point I ever heard regarding marriage and divorce! You are a true Social Justice Warrior.

        [–]polyethene 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        My point was that child rearing does not always require two parents, which in addition to the widely observable evidence in society is something which MGTOW also believe. Also, try not to get emotional in your posts, it's very beta.

        [–]stimulated_narcolept 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        In most cases a calm single parent household is better than a dramatic/argumentative two parent household.

        Yeah, and having one arm is better than having two arms with gangrene, but it's still not ideal.

        [–]denmaur 17 points18 points  (1 child)

        I went through the same thing until we divorced about 3 years ago. My son was also 8 at the time. Once we split, I focused all my time (other than work) on my son. I took a single parenting class at the local childrens hospital, and learned a lot there. I made sure he had a great bedroom in the new apartment, complete with furniture, posters, lots of books, etc. The custody arrangement is basically 50/50 including every other weekend. I make sure to spend quality time with him. At the park throwing his football, occasionaly trips, reading and praying together, dinners out (I can but I hate to cook). Our relationship is rock solid, he's doing really well in school, and has no anger issues that I can tell. It's been three years and things are going really well. My point is, if you care about your child, make him/her a priority in your life, and divorce doesn't have to be the disaster that some people make it out to be. According to a councelor I've seen a few times, the latest research proves it. As long as you're a positive, active influence in the child's life. Hope this helps.

        [–]asanonsb 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        You're a good dad like my dad was when my parents split up. I didn't turn into a supplicating beta fuck until my dad had to move for work and I lived 90% of the time alone with my emotionally overbearing and unstable mom. We here know that shit will ruin the best years of a young man's life.

        [–]EdsonH 50 points51 points  (19 children)

        Well, the woman will put herself before you and her kid in every way, except in the sense of improving herself.

        The modern western woman is pretty much impossible to keep "happy" because she is raised to find all happiness in external things. The woman's entire perspective is about bending everything towards them. So, right now, her decision isn't about love, it's about greener grass and "better" things. Can she find better or be "happier" with some new external stimulation.

        [–]DoesNotMatterAnymore 38 points39 points  (12 children)

        The modern western woman is pretty much impossible to keep "happy" because she is raised to find all happiness in external things.

        • So what hobbies you have?
        • .....
        • Shopping is not a hobby.

        If she don't have friends or hobbies that's a clear indicator for: i will be her main hobby, and that's not happening.

        [–][deleted]  (10 children)


          [–]TRP_James 51 points52 points  (9 children)

          Muh Hobbies

          [X] Hanging out with friends [X] Spending Money

          [–][deleted]  (8 children)


            [–]the_real_chronos 21 points22 points  (7 children)

            "I like all kinds of music"

            Oh, so you have no real educated idea about what types of music you like and you just listen to whatever's playing on the radio. Cool. You're such an interesting person...

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)


              [–]the_real_chronos 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Very well stated. It is a sort of conformism that keeps such a person motionless and perpetually reactive to the world around him.

              [–]Alreadythrownout0 4 points5 points  (2 children)

              I actually disagree with that. I've been hugely into music my whole life. I enjoy almost all kinds of music. After years of music theory and playing a plethora of instruments I can appreciate all kinds of music. Sure I listen to more genres than others. But I feel like there's nothing wrong with somebody that likes country, metal, classic rock, classical, jazz, edm and hip-hop. I would say I like most kinds of music.

              But yeah... If it's only what is fed to them on the radio. That's another story.

              [–]seddition 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              I think if you're a musician, even a shitty one like myself, it really helps you appreciate a lot more genres of music because you understand how much skill is involved in the creation of the art.

              [–]the_real_chronos 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              You're missing the point. It's not that you like different kinds of music. It's that you really have no idea what this means and throw it out there in an effort to come off as someone with a valid interest/opinion in music.

              Usually someone who does know will immediately list some of his preferred musical genres along with some musicians. Instead of the numbing "ooo yee all types of music its so cool" and the blank face when you ask them about anything beyond the scope of radio and pop billboard charts.

              [–]WardlyHasted 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              This pisses me off because I personally do enjoy several distinct genres. Primarily metal, but I also love jazz, rock, classical, hip-hop/rap, country and electronic in the right circumstances...

              So when someone else says, "Oh, I like everything" and then I try to talk to them about metal or jazz they're like "what?"

              [–]the_real_chronos 6 points7 points  (0 children)

              It is precisely why I immediately reduce them to nothing more than a musical ignoramus. My tastes are extremely eclectic but I have my niches of musical taste and know very well what I do and do not like. This is why I would never answer such a question with a patently ambiguous remark.

              I'm not a snob but if you're going to gloat about "music is my life" and "I love music its so special" and the best you can do to name a favorite artist is Calvin Harris and Nicki Minaj, then musically you are just a toddler who is still being fed his music by the common spoon.

              Usually the sort of person that hasn't taken the care to discover what sort of music he does and does not like is the sort of person that is painfully boring and intellectually devoid of anything worth exploring: quite frequently the average woman.

              [–]boscoist 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              "I want to travel the world"

              [–]Antagonistic_Comment 30 points31 points  (3 children)

              You got to give that Vince Vaughn length 6-paragraph speech without being interrupted by an upset woman who doesn't respect you? I think that's amazing.

              [–]down_with_whomever 9 points10 points  (2 children)

              yeah that sounded slightly editorialized

              [–]enteralterego[S] 28 points29 points  (1 child)

              the post is a summary of what was being said instead of a dialogue. Sadly I didn't get to do a speech.

              [–]Locastor 26 points27 points  (0 children)

              Last night before we went to bed she gave me a long hug.

              How long has it been dead bedroom? Is she cheating?

              [–]1 Endorsed Contributormordanus 11 points12 points  (1 child)

              I did a very similar thing a year ago. My relationship with my wife was shit and I kept looking for ways to fix it. Glad to see trp is working out for you like it did me.

              [–]down_with_whomever 12 points13 points  (0 children)

              If you're interested to tell your story, we're interested to read it.

              [–]westhewolf 11 points12 points  (5 children)

              Business dinner? What kind if business? The cheating kind?

              [–]Reddthrown 5 points6 points  (4 children)

              Exactly. Executive assistants do not get invited to business dinners. They're support staff, not decision maker.

              [–]MustafaIsHere 3 points4 points  (1 child)

              I always am turned off by a women who goes into Administrative assistants or Executive assistants cause of TV i doubt they are all like that but from the majority it seems they are untrustworthy...

              [–]Reddthrown 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              They're normal, fairly low-skilled, people that want a simple job with reliable hours. Nothing untrustworthy about them - just a low level of ambition.

              [–]enteralterego[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              Not her, please see my other post (search for "5 languages")

              [–]rpscrote 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Harsh truth time. You're not in a place to judge that accurately. You are oneitis'd and you are way too emotionally involved in the situation to make that objective calls. I'm not criticizing you. It is completely normal to be like that given your situation. Give the facts to TRP and not your judgment of the facts.

              [–]Smekiz 10 points11 points  (10 children)

              The "you never let me win/i am always wrong argument", can someone please tell me what the fuck they are hoping to achieve there? I get it all the time, and i really don't get it - if i thought i was wrong i'd not be arguing my point.

              How is that a valid argument? The stupidity is baffling.

              [–]TestosteroneFilled 16 points17 points  (4 children)

              Well if you're wondering, here's Islams take on it. It's not exactly what you're saying but relevant.

              It was narrated from the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) that women will form the majority of the people of Hell. It was narrated from ‘Imran ibn Husayn that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “I looked into Paradise and I saw that the majority of its people were the poor. And I looked into Hell and I saw that the majority of its people are women.”

              (Narrated by al-Bukhari, 3241; Muslim, 2737)

              With regard to the reason for this, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was asked about it and he explained the reason.

              It was narrated that ‘Abd-Allah ibn ‘Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “I was shown Hell and I have never seen anything more terrifying than it. And I saw that the majority of its people are women.” They said, “Why, O Messenger of Allah?” He said, “Because of their ingratitude (kufr).” It was said, “Are they ungrateful to Allah?” He said, “They are ungrateful to their companions (husbands) and ungrateful for good treatment. If you are kind to one of them for a lifetime then she sees one (undesirable) thing in you, she will say, ‘I have never had anything good from you.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhari, 1052)

              [–]Smekiz 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              I actually love when old scripture is brought into discussions, adds great nuance. +1 for that :3

              [–]BluepillProfessor 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              This thread has quotes from both the Old Testament and the Islamic Hadith.

              Interesting how they seem to be in agreement about women.

              [–]redcamo 1 point2 points  (0 children)


              All Women Are Like That And Always Have Been.

              [–]rpscrote 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Absolutely choice quote, thank you for sharing.

              [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              It's not an argument, it's a request for support. When you argue with her she doesn't care what it's about. She only cares how she feels about you and the relationship/interaction. David Deida explains this pretty well. Men argue as a way of finding the best direction. Women are either opening and including or closing and excluding. It's the result of having a feeling nature. They trust their feelings as if it's some sort of deep and ancient wisdom. In contrast, men trust their thoughts as if it's a gold nugget out of a genius's ass. This is why when people meditate and get quiet inside (no thoughts, no feelings) they end up feeling better. Most thoughts and feelings are just agitated noise.

              Back to the topic. How does someone know they have won an argument or won anything? Either because there are set rules that both sides agree to follow, or because one person concedes to the other. She never wins because you never say she did. There aren't any clear rules for the argument, so score can't be kept. She will count it a victory if you two are closer afterwards than before. This doesn't count for someone who is trying to dominate you though as they just want you to submit. You should be able to tell the difference by their mannerisms.

              If she's going to follow you, which is what she wants, she needs to FEEL that you think of both of you as a unit instead of opponents. Different priorities for the driver and the passenger. One requires clear, confident focus. The other requires trust.

              [–]Smekiz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              I'll have to read more from David, thank you

              [–]zuk1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              my recentley ex'd misses was like this ALL the time.

              i would often disagree with her when she said something i deemed to be stupid and she would constantly say i never agreed with her and i was always right in my eyes, etc. what she didn't take into account was that she constantly disagreed with me about everything i said also, i just didn't really care.

              [–]1independentmale 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              It's maddening. My ex was (and still is) like that. She hates it when I'm right and would go to great lengths to not do things the way I asked, even to her own detriment. Doesn't matter if it's good for her and she needs to do it and knows that. Like dealing with an insubordinate little girl.

              In hindsight, maybe I should have put her over my knee and paddled her butt when she disobeyed...

              [–]Smekiz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              I don't really mind getting it as an argument either, seeing as it isn't really an argument, it's basically just forfeiting the entire discussion. What she is doing is simply shaming me for being right, something i am entirely comfortable with.

              I just don't understand the logic behind that particular behavior.

              Really though, i wonder if it's the same entitlement bullshit present in most modern feminism, she has the right to not be wrong, because otherwise it's not fair.

              [–]fasterpussycatdie 7 points8 points  (4 children)

              My wife used to pull that shit early on to try to get me to back down, or if she felt she was "losing" an argument. I finally said GOOD! This conversation is finally over, have the papers drawn up and I'll sign them. and I meant it. Back in those days I was always good with women, I just sucked at marriage. I thought that it would be the same thing as any LTR with the exception that you live together. It's not.

              [–]down_with_whomever 2 points3 points  (3 children)

              In what other ways is it different? Never been married. Interested to hear how you think it's different.

              [–]enteralterego[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              You cannot easily walk away. That changes all the rules for both sides.

              [–]fasterpussycatdie 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              When you're dating, you're still (hopefully correctly) vetting the other person. When dating around or in a committed LTR you are still two separate individuals. Marriage changes that and amps it up to a new level. You're still two separate lives, but together. It's mutually assured destruction. Or, mutually assured construction. Cheesy, but true. If there is not a clear leader - destruction Athol Kay, before he went all new-agey weird pretty much nailed it with the whole captain/first mate analogy.

              [–]BluepillProfessor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              No only can't you walk away, you lose the main sexual attraction in women (aka "Dread" and secondary selection). You take a vow saying "forsaking all others" and her attraction to you in the long term plummets.

              In a LTR, if your GF turns into a bitch and cuts off sex you start going out to the bar with your buddies and you swing like a bitch if the opportunity presents. This is not so easy to do in a marriage.

              [–]Christian_Kong 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              I guess I havent been around TRP long enough to imagine that women use "I want a divorce" as a shit test. Jesus fucking Christ, man.

              [–]Frozen_Tundra 4 points5 points  (0 children)

              Married here.

              You mentioned you left some stuff out so it is hard to judge exactly what is going on. I do think you handled things correctly by setting boundaries using the divorce card, but her asking to see if you cared about her wanting a divorce was a test. It throws them off if you go rational (cold in womenspeak) as they are expecting you to get all beta on them and use it to gain control.

              One thing that we tend to miss out on including me, is how women communicate. A great read is Rollo's article on the medium is the message here:


              (mods if you want an archive post instead drop me a line not sure of the policy on quality manosphere links)

              I am guessing that you may have missed some of those "medium is the message" along the way and as rollo points out in the article

              Lastly I should add that women are not above using overt communication when it serves their purposes. When a woman comes out and says something in a fashion so as to leave no margin for misinterpretation, you can bet she’s been pushed to that point out of either fear or sheer exasperation when her covert methods wont work.

              So whatever is going on she is telling you she isn't happy and she is looking to you to take a leadership role to figure it out.

              I would hazard a guess that growing further apart etc. are symptoms of an underlying problem and she has no idea what it is, just knows what she feels.

              [–]RojoEscarlata 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              Why would you go to such lengths to explain yourself to her? Beth she didn't process half the things you said.

              At some point you just started hamstering a lot too.

              If you don't show that you REALLY are able to walk away she will always thing of you as a little bitch.

              [–]rednukleus 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              This is one of the better posts.

              [–]HS-Thompson 4 points5 points  (0 children)

              Not bad, but you are talking too much and using rational linear thought to try to convince her. In the long run you will find that is not going to work for you. It's fine that you gave her that mini essay speech or whatever but if you find yourself doing it again you have failed. Make sure not to forget that the only way you will achieve change in her is by observable changes in your own actions. Not words.

              [–]1ubiety 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              Good job standing up for yourself. Your wife pulls the divorce card whenever she wants to win a fight, and previously you didn't contest it. Now that you have, you've established boundaries and (hopefully) she knows she still has a husband to call her put on her shit. Ball's in her court (literally) to complicate each of your lives. Is it worth it from her stand point to break up everything, essentially gamble, or keep the family intact with this "stronger" man? I can't say, I don't know the whole story. Just keep yourself happy in the meantime, and keep incorporating the No More Mr. Nice Guy advice. Both will help immensely (and lift if you haven't started already).

              [–]enteralterego[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

              I lift, and I already use it as an example of doing something that makes me happy. Thx for the advice though :)

              [–]bonerOn4thJuly 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              It's always gratifying to see people who have lost so much ground over the years having the strength to turn things around and recover their place, well done to you sir!

              [–]sinnerdizzle 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Posts like this remind me of my mentally destructive ex. She'd constantly make fits about the smallest things, and if we ever got into too bad, she'd threaten to leave me. Usually when that happened, I ignored her, kept cool. Then we'd talk, everything would get better again. Eventually when things heated up, she'd post on facebook, for the world to see that she's upset, it's MY fault, and then my friends (one of which happened to be her cousin) would verbally assault me. I got tired of that shit real quick. So one New Years eve, she went down that "we need to break up" bit. I said fuck it. Bye. Get out, have a nice life. Glad things kinda worked out for you OP, but sometimes you gotta draw the line. I don't think anyone's worth keeping if they make constant threats to leave

              [–]BluepillProfessor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              I bet she has no intention of filing. It was a Shit Test and you passed. Keep us updated and hold that frame.

              You probably want to talk less and let your actions speak for themselves.

              [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              good FR, but you obviously have something to lose and act on the defensive, despite having improved, which very commendable, you did stand your ground, but you have no trenches!

              marking your availability in bold for her to access whenever she wants. that will make her feel safe and secure in having you, and won't get her to work hard for you to stay.

              if/when it gets ugly, she will most likely end up using your kid against you.

              dread game. gym + start flirting (with other women). it will get her tingles going.

              and contact a lawyer asap and get a contingency plan happening. your woman sounds flakey, and gives you and your child much less consideration than what you seem to be doing.

              [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              I agree. You are using logic to deal with this, and she doesn't respect that. She's reeling from him calling her bluff, but that's just going to make her prepare for the next time the bluff is called.

              Be aloof, and get her guessing as to whether you are having an affair. With that he's got a good chance of her chasing him to prove her worth. She can easily leave him and feel good about it as the "winner", but she can't feel good about being replaced, so she will do everything she can in order to avoid that.

              And yes, get your finances in order... no shared credit cards, tie up all the equity in the house so it can't be spent if her name is on it, move all money into bank accounts she doesn't have access to and give her a meager allowance with which to spend. You can't keep her from getting the half the money were a divorce to transpire, but you can keep her from spending all the money in advance of the divorce, which is quite common.

              [–]oldmantrp 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Do not fool yourself in to thinking staying together for the sake of your child is a good thing. Your child is at the age where he is going to start realizing that you're making massive compromises of yourself.

              He will start connecting the dots and will blame himself for his parents deluded selves and unhappiness.

              If you're are truly congruent with the no more mr. guy stuff, you need to show a lot more strength and stability. A divorce is ok if you are your childs rock. The love of an alpha dad feels so much better than the love of a compromised, broken dad.

              [–]1independentmale 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              My ex used to pull the "I want a divorce" card on the regular.

              Every time, I called her bluff and told her, "Go for it." She never did.

              Eventually I got sick and fucking tired of hearing it so I said, "I'm sick and fucking tired of hearing this. The next time you ask for a divorce, you better be prepared to file because if you don't, I will."

              That put an end to it. Still wound up divorcing her (and she fought it to the bitter end).

              [–]jcrpta 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              Get yourself onto /r/marriedredpill

              No disrespect to the people on here - the ideas are by and large pretty sound - but it's mostly oriented towards men who are neither in nor interested in any sort of LTR.

              Too much of it is poisonous, you'll wind up wanting a divorce more than you'll want to patch things up.

              [–]sir_wankalot_here 5 points6 points  (2 children)

              My take on this. People say all sorts of things when they are upset. Just with women usually say different things then men. So the favorite one with women is "I want a divorce". If she really wanted a divorce she wouldn't have bothered to threaten OP with it, she would have gone out and found a lawyer. OP would have learned about it when he was getting served papers.

              Personally I think divorce is too easy now days. And the solution to every relationship problem is get a divorce. Unless there are extreme circumstances work shit out. Working shit out does not mean bending over backwards but both sides make intelligent compromises.

              OP I think did the right thing, he got his wife to actually think about what she was saying. Also the divorce thing was a shittest in my opinion. The fact that his wife calmed down the next day seems to indicate OP did the right thing.

              [–][deleted]  (1 child)


                [–]sir_wankalot_here 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                Rereading OP's post and your comments I think I am off the mark on this one. Argument starts over a Fedex package. Lack of intimacy in the marriage etc.

                [–]OpiumPhrogg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                "With that out of way - I know you are unhappy. So am I. But I am doing things for myself, that will make me happy. You are not responsible for MY happiness. If it was so I would resent you when I fail to be happy for some reason. I don't want that."

                As a married man, I can relate to everything said there. That was absolutely spot on. I will need to remember this. Thanks.

                [–]TheRealMewt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Be careful, OP.

                The relationship you have with your wife is nearly exactly how I handled the situation with my ex wife. The dust might be settled now, but I wouldn't be surprised if she plays the D card during the next petty fight you two have.

                [–]UEMcGill 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                The only so-so thug you did was talking at her about her happiness. She'll see this as yet another instance of "he doesn't listen"

                I would add dread to the conversation next time. A simple "I'll have your replacement in short order. I DONT NEED YOU".

                By all means file.

                [–]karmacrunch 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                If it helps i was 8 when my parents go divorced and it didn't affect me at all, it does depend on the kid ALLOT but with the right support kids can cope with divorce

                [–]systemshock869 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                I held frame to the 'I want a divorce' thing, and she left. Fortunately there are no kids and dividing up our assets/debts was fairly straightforward (I still ended up with the short straw on debt, but it went so smoothly that I can't complain).

                Within a month she went from a reasonably sane person to being a bi-polar wreck that got kicked out of her friends' house for her shitty behavior. Dating (now living with) her plan C because plan B rejected her. Getting fired from one of her jobs for being a flaky employee. Losing her beautiful and amazing dog because she has to live in an apartment with her new fuck buddy. I've come to realize that I dodged a HUGE bullet.

                Now I'm friends with her former roomies/best friends once again, and everyone can see the shitty bed she has made for herself. In a way it's pretty satisfying. But also very sad. I'm not one to say never get married, but don't get married until you're 1000% ready kids!

                Edit: I still think that the whole thing was a shit test, and she was just too proud to come back and apologize to me. Now she's dug herself a giant hole and there's no turning back. Pride goeth before a fall.

                [–]johnbranflake 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Don't explain your feelings or anything about the red pill frame etc to a woman. I think you passed her shit test but do it with much less talking. Silence is confident

                [–][deleted]  (7 children)


                  [–]enteralterego[S] 5 points6 points  (3 children)

                  I actually did try that. She got depressed very fast. I prefer her out of the house doing something. She has something to do even if it's not efficient.

                  It takes her mind off things.

                  [–]loddfavne 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                  Work gives people purpose. Purpose is important in life. A woman that does nothing is just as good of an idea as a man who does nothing.

                  [–]AndrewAtrus 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                  Why does "no paid job" automatically mean "does nothing"? I'd love to be able to spend all of my time:

                  • running my side business

                  • improving myself

                  • raising children

                  • studying and learning

                  • playing vidya (not gonna lie)

                  [–]loddfavne 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Women aren't exactly the gatekeepers of commitment like us men. They have to be lead. Work gives incentives as well as sanctions that keeps people performance up.

                  [–]1independentmale 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                  Do you know what divorce courts do to men when the woman doesn't have a job? Hint: It's not pretty.

                  If the marriage is rocky your first priority is to secure your assets. Your second is to make damn sure she has a job. The more she makes, the less you'll pay.

                  [–]newlifeasredpill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  One of the first things I did when swallowing pill was say no to these errand requests that wife could easily do herself.

                  The first few times she blew up my phone telling me how selfish I was.

                  Now she knows I am way to busy and important to be bothered and she never asks.

                  The only thing about my schedule that changed is my unwillingness to be a manservant

                  [–]ColdEiric 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Well played, enteralterego.

                  I am looking forward to your next post.

                  [–]HermitXenotrope 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  In a similar situation. Not to the extent of yours, but along the same lines and maybe heading that way in 7 years. I feel for ya.

                  [–]surfjihad 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  OP would be wise to prepare for the worst. Recommended reading - "The List"


                  [–]jrr6415sun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  You can't let your wife constantly threaten a divorce. Tell her the next time she says that it's final or get some papers ready and the next time she says it hand her the papers immediately

                  [–]thenarrrowpath 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Take all of your money and give it to your Parents or another relative you can trust right now. Threating divorce over petty things???? I don't even think non-red pillers would agree with that!!!

                  [–]2asd1100 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I said "do not threaten me with divorce. I never mentioned divorce in any of our fights, and when I think about divorce I will simply go and file one. So if you mean to get a divorce, by all means just do it and I'll sign the papers. If not don't keep threatening me with it because I will not allow it." "With that out of way - I know you are unhappy. So am I. But I am doing things for myself, that will make me happy. You are not responsible for MY happiness. If it was so I would resent you when I fail to be happy for some reason. I don't want that. I tried doing the stuff that you said you wanted, and I didn't get a proper response for it. I tried taking you to holidays, buying nice stuff, going out, to be available all the time, to do chores, take care of the kid, handle the house stuff, not doing stuff that you say annoys you all on top of providing the bulk for our family- but in turn I get no intimacy, no respect, and no reciprocation. This makes me unhappy. So I will do whatever makes me happy, because the other method did not work. I suggest you do the same. Secondly I do not consider divorce a viable option to resolve your problems. Not having me in your life will not make your life any easier or happier. You need to work out your problems and ask for help if you need me to fix something - which I will happily do. Just stop blaming me for your unhappiness. Lastly I believe that divorce will affect our 8 year old son in a very bad way and he will feel it was his fault that we had to separate, because that is how the child's mind operates at that age. He will resent you, or me, or both of us for not being like other parents, or making his life complicated and the current state of things is not so bad that there are constant fights, abuse etc and our son is happy as he is. I do not want to destroy this for him, at such an early age.

                  I like this guy. Where was this guy the other night?:

                  The other night, she started bitching about something I forgot. A minor thing - I was supposed to fedex sth to her parents and couldnt get round to it because of work (busy week for me). Instead of making up lame excuses I simply said "I didnt have time to sort it out, I had more important stuff to do, and your mother already had told me that it wasn't a big deal and I could send it any time I wanted". She then started to bitch about how I always "was right" and "I never let her tell me when I was wrong etc" (which is not true, I always own up to my mistakes) , and "how arrogant" , "annoying" and "know-it-all" I was. When I replied she simply tried to cut it with "do not shout at me". I wasn't shouting so I said : "when I shout you will know I am shouting. This is not shouting. This is me upset. "

                  I don't like this guy, you don't like being this guy, and your wife can't stand this guy. Why do you keep him around? Do not engage in her petyness. She is just lashing out because she can't hit her kid or her boss and it's one thing to let her, but you fuel her rage, you engage and you amplify her vitriol. Do you get mad at the rock if you trip on it? How about if it could talk back to you?

                  Be a rock my friend.

                  [–]Darkone06 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I would rint up the Divorce form and have it printed out.

                  She wants to bring it up walk over to your shelf, pull out a nice fancy folder and tell her to sign it.

                  I seen it done and it turn her world upside down. She could no longer make a threat since you were all ready to go with it. It will show her that you have your shit in order and have already comtempleted an exit stradagy.

                  Make her feel like fine, im doing what you want but im doing it better. I have options bitch.

                  [–]R50cent 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I wouldn't put up with that. If I was arguing with my SO and she continually brought up the "well I'm going to leave you" card, I would beat her to the punch, I'd leave her ass, no reason to put up with that emotional blackmail.

                  Honestly, she sounds spoiled. If you are constantly trying to keep her happy and she is constantly complaining to you about it, something definitely needs to change in her behavior, or its time to walk away from that.

                  I know it's a tough prospect, given that you have a kid, but think about it this way, do you really want your child to pick up these bad personality traits from your wife? How long is it going to be before your kid is living a perfectly normal life but complaining over nothing?

                  Finally, the problem obviously wasn't about you not sending the package, I'm sure you know that. So the question becomes what is it really about? My best guess, she's either bothered by her lack of control over you, or its what everyone else is saying, she's looking for a reason to leave, or she's trying to goad you into leaving her/cheating so she can leave guilt free.

                  Regardless, mark my words OP, your wife is keeping something from you.

                  [–]Kozen117 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  This is why you need that prenup.

                  [–]binrobinro 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  That was really well thought out. Good going.

                  [–]jumbokrajewski 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                  This reads like a fan fiction of TRP ideals. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but mentioning you were reading No More Mr. Nice guy, and your uninterrupted monolouge of TRP dogma makes it sound embellished.

                  [–]enteralterego[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  There was no uninterrupted monologue. This is a summary of what happened.

                  I was in fact reading no more mr nice guy, before she came home. IT's a quick read and I started around 7 and read until 11 pm, and got around 65% of the book - according to my kindle.

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  No way in hell the wife is filing for a divorce. That being said id contact a lawyer to secure your assets right away.

                  [–]AchillesOtherLeg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I would say you communicated with too much logic and fairness.

                  I would be suspicious that underneath that smile is a dagger aimed squarely at the sweet spot between your shoulder blades.

                  Dread is supposed to inspire worry, loss, panic. Not conciliation, that is why the reaction comes off as being fake.

                  PS I'd be willing to bet she's now looking up your choice of reading materials to get inside your head.

                  [–]xthemoonx 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  you are doing all the right things! keep it up bro and good luck!

                  [–]1User-31f64a4e 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Threatening divorce is dread game.

                  You called her on it, so kudos.

                  And whoever said securing assets is right. Even if it's only dread game, the fact is that divorce is not inconceivable to this woman. If they can conceive it, they can do it. If she doesn't, then having some assets in a place she can't get them will do no harm.

                  Keep in mind that in a divorce, you will be asked for tax returns. That has implications for how you might secure assets, assuming you don't intend to commit tax fraud (which imho would be a really bad idea.)

                  [–]ExamplePrime 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Brilliant Field report man

                  You manned up without being aggressive, showed a level of compassion without being soppy, listed off reasons without being boring, stood your ground when you could have wavered and most importantly, you actually took action instead of wanting to.

                  I hope you can sort things out. Good luck.

                  [–]evilquesadilla 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  That's just how women are. My GF threw the "I want to break up" tactic in my face, so I helped her gather up her stuff and sent her on her way. We did get back together, but she has never tried that trick with me again. It's because she never wanted to break up with me in the first place; all she wanted was to get her way, and I've demonstrated that trick will only backfire against her.

                  Break up/divorce, to men, is the highly escalated result of serious problems. To women, it's simply a tool for getting their way.

                  I've had my platonic female friends gave me advice about using break ups as a strategy to get my relationship partner to do/not do certain things. They rationalize it as the ends justify the means, for the side they're on... my platonic female friends - my side. But in their own relationships, their side would be, well, their side.

                  It certainly sucks having to deal with this, but this is like wanting to live in a big city but you hate traffic. Well, there's no way around it. Relationships are power struggles, period. And this is just one of the many tricks women will pull to win the power struggle. It is what it is.

                  Keeping frame isn't just important while dating, it's just as important in a relationship. Giving in to women may be a nice gesture, but it will only encourage them to push farther and go for more.

                  [–]pl231 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                  this actually seems pretty serious. it's different to hamster it one time and then never again but to maintain the thought of it for this long, fuck, if I were you, I'd want a divorce from her after this. If she's this serious and thinking this hard about it, then it's likely you will end up divorced or she will do some shady shit if you don't.

                  A long hug?

                  [–]fhghg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  A better alternative to being nagged. Ah, hugging. It's one of the few times a women shuts her mouth. As a married man I liked it.

                  [–]MoneyStatusLooks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Why does she want a divorce? Where have you been fucking up?

                  From your post, it seems like you said most of that shit with a strong/attractive frame.

                  [–]BluepillProfessor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Definitely check out /r/marriedredpill

                  I am not sure the old married guys would agree this "I want a Divorce" shit test is a sign of cheating. This happens all the time- if you let it.

                  [–]dented_halo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Lawyer the fuck up right now and protect assets. She's had this in the works for awhile. Keeps a diary, sleep in your own bed and don't move out.

                  [–]ShekelBanker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  OP you broke the main rule of game: holding frame. Your wife using the "I want a divorce" card as a shit test (a pretty sado-masochistic one if you ask me, but who am I to judge) is the perfect way that she will coerce you into turning betabux for her (aka doing whatever she wants). How do you think some of the betas that got divorced managed to get screwed? They gave in to the wife's threats until she convinced hereself he would serve her after divorce via alimony/child support.

                  Do not by any chance get coerced into doing her anything when she uses the divorce shit test. Hold the frame and send a clear message you are not the one to be bossed around with such ludicrous threats. I for one might hate these psychologically sick women but as a parent, whether male or female is inexcusable in my eyes to compromise a child forever either by using him as a weapon (woman almost always gets custody, the child support money) and deprived of the other parent (the father, which is disastrous not only because of the lack of a male role model but also a myriad of other psychological issues like increased rate of suicide, drug abuse etc.)

                  [–]Endevour 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  This is jusy a vibe I'm getting, but the way she reacted gives me the feeling she be cheating on you. It can be worth looking into, because it will weight heavily in your favour in case it comes to divorce. Both speaking in terms of division of assets and child custody.

                  [–]imaRPman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Threats of divorce over trivial arguments is a loyalty test, which you failed. She is insecure and wants re-assurance.

                  I had the same experience with my wife and failed several times too. I finally shut it down with this:

                  "I'll decide if and when we are to divorce. I have no thoughts or plans for divorce. If you want a you'll first need to seek my permission which i will not grant to you. I don't want to hear that word from you again."

                  [–]frzndesserts 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  yea- it seems like she was using the divorce card as a shit test for him to comply with her demands-and he maintained frame- in the end you are only responsible for your own happiness! if she does follow thru with the divorce threat- keep frame and continue to enjoy your life! she will still be unhappy no matter what! the problem with these girls is they want 100% control over guys! some guys comply-other guys don't -and the guys who don't comply, usually gives these girls the balls to file divorce and think they will get you to comply with their demands via the state and court system!

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  if you end up getting a divorce trust me when i tell you that it might be better off for your kid. He has a higher chance of being screwed up if he lives in the home of a loveless marriage, a lot more psychological issues can stem from seeing you two argue all the time, etc.