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[–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 617 points618 points x2 (117 children)

See the total attitude re-adjustment when another bitch is in the equation? This is why I think 1 man 2 women is a good model for a household. Their jealousy of each other keeps them attracted to you. And because they hate each other more than they hate sharing you, it keeps 'em obedient like good women are. They know their place and don't try to fuck with you. When women think they monopolise you, they begin to take you for granted and treat you like shit.

As an observation, she knew that other chick was coming along to the BDSM shit so that specifically is what made her want to come along. To check out her competition and MATE GUARD you. Even though she's a plate, that doesn't mean she wants to be. Sounds like to me she wants an LTR with you (durr, when do they not?!?)

Then obviously she couldn't mate guard and seeing you with the other chick fucked with her because even though she's only a plate she loves you like a girlfriend (reading between the lines.) She feels like she's worthy of more because she's been fucking you and cooking for you for months. So yeah I can understand perfectly well why she would lose her shit. You didn't give her a chance to say how she feels or reason any of that out though, you just made her feel bad for going along with you (to mate guard you) when she knew the other bitch was gonna be there. And you pulled dread at the drop of a hat - showing you don't love the bitch enough to stick around and put up with her shit, so she's basically ignoring all her concerns and insecurities and fuckedupness just to keep you around because she is in love with you. If she didn't like you a fucking lot, she wouldn't take that shit from you. She'd recognise it for the head game that it is. She'd branch swing to the next guy. Obviously she's invested in you and doesn't have a better guy around so she's letting you keep her at a firm distance to her own mental detriment.

I can see it from both sides. Just realise plates don't last forever, all plates crash, and this Lisa bitch likes you so much she's making a whore out of herself thinking that's the way to get your love. Because she's a dumb bitch in love and shit, she'll try anal and choking on a cock if that's what it takes to get treated more seriously by you. It's fucked up because we both know that isn't gonna get her promoted. You'll just see her as even bigger fuck puppet.

Plate spinning is good, but leave 'em better than when you found 'em. If you don't LTR up the Lisa chick, make a whore out of her and then inevitably dump her back on the market when something x10 like this occurs down the track, she won't back down without a fight because she'll be at her wits end. Then you've just fucked up a chick epically and dumped her on the market dysfunctional for the rest of us to deal with. Chances are damage like that is not being undone, because no guy has the fucking patience for it. You be alpha widowin'. And the only guys who would give her enough patience are beta and therefore she doesn't respect/want them. Don't abuse your power. If a plate gets too attached like that and I don't want a relationship from her, IMO, that's a sign to drop her. For her own good. Fucking her up in the head and keeping her on the hook just to get a few more goes at the pussy ain't fair on the girl when new pussy can be had so easily. IMO, OP, you let Lisa go if she's that interchangeable with other hoes, or you LTR her up if she isn't. Don't keep forcing the spin out of libido/ego, bitches aren't planets you can't spin 'em for eternity.

The ethos is leave 'em better than when you found 'em. Only fuck bitches up in the head when they go evil on you. Let Lisa go, get new pussy. She likes you. A lot. Too much to be a plate. Stop abusing that. Get a new plate. Wrecking bitches is for sado-narcs.

[–]epUser 288 points289 points  (14 children)

That's the first time I see someone advise to not abuse your power just because you can in this sub. Respect.

[–]magus678 96 points97 points  (4 children)

Seconded. There have been moments when I thought the sub was full of children with super powers.

[–]john-b 51 points52 points  (2 children)

Thirded. /u/IllimitableMan is a true adult.

[–]calloberjig 5 points6 points  (1 child)

And Fourthed. Truly good advice, and relevant to my own situation. Thank you

[–]justmanthings 21 points22 points  (8 children)

Amen. I try to bring some sanity to the sub in my own small way. The longer I'm here the less defensive I get about it with the crazies who shit all over it.

Sure TRP is amoral. Doesn't mean I have to like evil, manipulative assholes here. However "alpha" they are. Fuck them. Fuck OP. Yay you're getting your dick in more than one woman, and treating them like shit. How fucking ordinary.

[–]1IVIaskerade 21 points22 points  (1 child)

The problem is mostly newbies not realising that "amoral" isn't a license to do whatever you want. It just means that TRP does not make judgements on anything and instead it is left to the individual's personal compass.

[–]Holden_Frame 21 points22 points  (0 children)

It seems like lots of people don't understand that "amoral" does not mean "immoral".

It simply means that the theories themselves have no connection to right and wrong (like laws of nature).

How you USE that knowledge definitely IS subject to (your own) moral consideration.

[–]synadmin 8 points9 points  (0 children)

How fucking ordinary.

What a great fucking way to think about it. Any guy with the prerequisites (TRP knowledge, lifting, game) can go around mentally destroying these chicks... but it takes an honorable man, someone you want to look up too, to let them go before their damaged beyond repair.

[–]krohlm[S] 157 points158 points  (17 children)

As I hold you in such high esteem I'm gonna take your advice and let her go. I'm not triad enough to go much further honestly now that you've dropped me that insight.

I need to drop you a mail about another issue I'm currently dealing with.

Edit: side note, I must admit, I never thought I'd see the day you felt sorry for a chick.

[–]yummyluckycharms 37 points38 points  (0 children)

I would agree that you should drop that plate but for a different reason.

I think she might get jealous crazy and not in a good way. Things could go south fast

[–][deleted] 32 points33 points  (5 children)

Edit: side note, I must admit, I never thought I'd see the day you felt sorry for a chick.

I don't think his advice comes necessarily from feeling sorry or pity, it's about being a morally advanced person. He really hit the nail on the head about the difference between being Alpha and just being a sado-narcissist: At the end of the day, an Alpha male is a moral person by being incredibly honest and leaving a mate better than he found her. Otherwise it's just causing pain and for no good, real reason, and that's somewhat the definition of evil/immoral.

[–][deleted] 24 points25 points  (0 children)

An alpha is not clearly defined. You can be a completely destructive individiual who burns anything he touches to the ground and still be alpha.

It's just about choosing who you want to be and putting in the work to get there.

[–]M3_Drifter 1 point2 points  (3 children)

leaving a mate better than he found her

If females become worse at comitted relationships for every dick she has, then this is an oxymoron - unless you like celibacy.

We need to stop hamstering about shit like this that come from the old PUAs like Mystery - not exactly an alpha, even if he could get chicks.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I don't think it's hamstering, I think it's honestly morality. Increasing my value, acting with confidence, having power, these things are thing I do to myself to attract the female, I would argue they are moral positives for me and for society. They don't cause others unneccesary pain. But gaming to have your plates meet up when you know it's going to cause pain, pain that doesn't even do yourself good because you already have both these females in your pocket, I think it's 'lazy' at best.

[–]M3_Drifter 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Let's say you're a super alpha, and you're dating some girl. Sadly, she does not live up to your expectations, and you let her go. She becomes an alpha widow and has a very hard time finding an adequate replacement.

Did you leave her better than you found her? No.

Did you do something to intentionally hurt her? No.

Is her being broken your fault? No.

Should you keep seeing her because she can't find someone else? Hell no!

You can talk about morality all day, and I may or may not agree, but the phrase "leaving her better than you found her" needs to die because it's bullshit. You should treat everyone with the respect they deserve, of course, but this is a remnant of White Knights cum PUAs

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ah, I see what you're saying, it's about the phrase and the false possibilities it implies. Good point and good explanation.

[–]1Zanford 18 points19 points  (3 children)

Rachel is probably super-slutty (as someone who was already in the BDSM scene, and did you on the first date). Keep it wrapped with her. You'd be a fool to drop Lisa instead of Rachel; Lisa's hotter, more devoted to you, and less slutty (based on minimal info you gave us).

And it wouldn't be altruistic. If you drop Lisa now she'll be more fucked up for the next guy than if you do it later for less sudden and dramatic reasons.

Right now you are power tripping on the whole 'with great power comes great responsibility' mindset. It's ego-stroking humility.

Just keep Lisa, and she should know you have other plates; girls can handle it much better if they know but don't see the other plates. This incident was unusual and it doesn't have to happen again.

But if you're going for a 3 way then obv two of them will need to meet (or you'll need to pick up some temporary girl together).

[–]Red_SoloCup 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I'd say drop Lisa. Definitely not a no-contact break, I think he's too far in for that. I think the moral thing to do in this situation would be to end things with Lisa and straight up tell her "You seem to want a relationship, and I have no interest in that. I feel like I'm just using you and I have too much respect for you for that."

It's obviously beta, but that's what you want in this situation. If you come off as a little beta, she'll lose a bit (hopefully) of attraction for you and will make it easier on her. At this point, there's no need to hurt her any more than you have to.

[–]the_number_2 0 points1 point  (1 child)

It's obviously beta,

Is it? Sure, if it's sincere and you're actually feeling upset about having to do it.

It's also manipulative. You don't want her to get emotional, true, but it's because you're protecting yourself. You're avoiding any conflict to make your life easier; that hers is benefiting as a result is an unintended benefit.

[–]Red_SoloCup 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How is it manipulative? He doesn't want a relationship and at this point, even though he's told her he doesn't want one, she seems to be harboring hope that he does. Women are crazy, we all know that, and sometimes the responsibility falls on us to make sure that we don't destroy them.

Personally, I'm fine with a girl getting emotional. But if I actually care about her to the point where I feel like I need to at least "let her down easy" I won't go no contact. I'll tell her how I feel, and make sure she understands exactly why I don't want to have her around anymore. I feel like if you're as intertwined with a girl as he is, it's your moral responsibility to not devastate her.

[–]3toss 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I'm glad you are taking his advice. At this point it starts to slide towers using her, without any kind of positive influence, a non mutually beneficial relationship, and could really Fuck with her on the end.

We all learn best the hard way though.

[–]BhiQ 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I'm not sure if you should instantly drop her. Just make sure it's clear that you are not looking for someone to settle down with so she doesn't have false hopes.

[–]Dickwad 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Maybe give her an ultimatum so it becomes partly her choice to end it.

Or- instead of completely cutting her off cold turkey, just demote her to fuck-buddy. Only see her once a week or less, only contact to arrange meeting, only meet for sex.

[–]emblasochist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think he's feeling sorry for them so much as trying to make the community more palatable and not making more triads. Spinning plates is fine; letting them know they are plates and are interchangeable is also fine, but they are people and someone else will have to deal with them. It benefits everyone if you don't break someone you don't intend to build up better than you found. Remember, kids, we're alphas, not triads.

[–]1runnerrun2 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Solid post, I have to say I also felt a bit uneasy near the end there. Going down the path of messing with people like that when they indeed are heads over heels, that doesn't bode well.

Leave them better than you found them. I like that one. Fits with my general life philosophy of "bring prosperity where there is adversity". Takes some extra effort but makes your life so much enjoyable and easy.

[–]beerthroway 18 points19 points  (34 children)

I think this comment deserves it's own post man. You're basically describing "with great power comes great responsibility". It seems like more than just a handful of guys here are striving to build their power and value, but fail to realize something like this. I never did. Especially when we think so much about how girls are so selfish so our default response "fuck it, she'd do the same to me".

And for everyone there will be a degree of immoral vs amoral argument, but this post put a different light on this for me. And maybe it's not "responsibility" as much as "keep your actions in line with your desires". If you don't desire LTR, don't set up a scenario that creates that desire in her.

[–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 52 points53 points  (33 children)

I can actually explain logically and non emotively why being destructive beyond your immediate needs is inefficient and hence, you should be less "immoral."

It's the topic of a future piece I'm doing on Machiavellian ethics. It'll either be really popular, or people will throw shit at me and say "I've gone soft" or some other crap. I don't care. I can take it. I have enough rep to handle any shit anyone throws at me and enough intelligence not to get humiliated by logic and theatrics in argument. I'm Machiavellian/smart enough to out manoeuvre most shit that comes at me. I'm putting it out (when it's ready.) Fuck everyone who thinks leaving the world in flames is OK. Yeah, just make the world shittier because you've had shit yourself. Perpetuate the cycle. That's smart, that's rational, isn't it? No it's emotional revenge bullshit.

[–]colovick 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'll look forward to reading that. Thanks for the insight.

[–]the_real_chronos 5 points6 points  (26 children)

But wouldn't a dark triad character not care at all about leaving women in a better state? To him all that would matter would be satisfying himself and using others to achieve this.

If he has completely broken Lisa in, then this seems like a golden opportunity to figuratively write his name all over her, and keep her as a sort of slave at his bidding. Conditioning her further and further to please him at all costs.

This might sound morally reprehensible, but having power over others in a way in which you own another person's very humanity is itself the wet dream of a darkly-inclined individual.

The trade off is that these people are emotionally fragile and rely on you to take care of every aspect of their psyche, but it is an amazing and sick ride until you tire of it and dump them in the sand.

So again, why should you care about how you leave these people? They are merely playthings. If you are a follower of the triad, you are giving advice that is counter to what you preach (though a noble effort) and of course rings true with the choir but as someone with darker intentions I do not buy it all.

I understand where it is negative to society. But then again, society is at the bottom of my - and people like me - list.

[–]1IVIaskerade 6 points7 points  (1 child)

You know what the problem with being Machiavellain is? If people know you're machiavellian, it's much harder to be machiavellian. Therefore, a big part of manipulation is misdirection, making people see you as the "good guy".

Even if you were a zero-empathy machine, you should still keep to the campsite rule because it increases your chances of continuing being a zero-empathy machine without trouble.

[–]SquareScrewdriver 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This, I can understand and relate to. Well said. Everything I felt was just bullshit. Thanks for the post.

[–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 19 points20 points  (13 children)

But wouldn't a dark triad character not care at all about leaving women in a better state?

Read my posts and look at my DT score, it's not as clear cut as you think. You can be DT and have ethics. As Professor Kevin Dutton calls 'em "the good psychopaths" (rarer than the batshit fuck everything up psychos, but eh, they exist) -

This might sound morally reprehensible, but having power over others in a way in which you own another person's very humanity is itself the wet dream of a darkly-inclined individual.

I'm dark, I'm not sadistic though. This is sadism. I understand what you're on about, it's unjustifiable in and of itself. It's actually your weakness. I can give you power over something you can't resist fuck you over and frame you for indulging your own perversions. Sadists need to find masochists to productively indulge their curse. It's a curse because it doesn't actually make you more efficient, it's your psychological addiction. Please read the synopsis here: to get an idea of who I am (or at least what I self-identify with.) It's why a lot of my posts when compared by people who read almost all my stuff get confused. Guy writes about the dark triad, says some questionable shit, but then sounds moral in another post - what's up with him? Now you know.

So again, why should you care about how you leave these people? They are merely playthings.

I'm not going to convince a sadist not to be a sadist, that's a shit test. You will never give a fuck. I'll just tell you it's one of your weaknesses and can be weaponised against you if you get a real match and aren't just playing with prey all the time.

I understand where it is negative to society. But then again, society is at the bottom of my - and people like me - list.

That's why nobody likes you or appreciates you. It's why you have to try hard to hide and blend in. I don't have that problem because I don't fuck over decent people. Just people such as yourself, who would try to cross me (and you have the guile to try it, I know the type you claim to be very intimately.) Even psychopaths need a code of ethics if they want to be successful in the world. Recklessness and constant self appeasement are not virtues. Masturbating to your own power doesn't make you more powerful, it just makes you addicted to a dysfunctional type of emotional self-fulfilment.

[–]colovick 7 points8 points  (0 children)

So in essence you're comparing growing and cultivating to slash and burn.

[–]QQ_L2P 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well here's something funny about that book. Duttons co-author, McNab, was one of my favourite authors between the ages of 11-16. Surprised to see his name pop up here again, but it certainly explains a lot about his books.

[–]theproudbanana 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I also got a high score on the DT but Mach > Psyc > Narc, maybe the machiavellian heavy dark triad shows ethics to hide the manipulation. Thanks for the book im going to read it looks good.

[–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 5 points6 points  (0 children)

maybe the machiavellian heavy dark triad shows ethics to hide the manipulation.

Sometimes, yeah. When I need to save my ass it is useful to point to noble things I did. I'm not getting roasted on the fire of anybody's witch hunt if I can help it. It is not the sole reason for me personally though. I show ethics because I can. Because often I have the power to influence something positively that nobody else does - so if that doesn't cost me too much, I will do good. If it costs me a lot? If I have to fuck myself over to do it? Then I won't. I'm altruistic, not a fool.

[–]Ulquiorra_Schiffer 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Where did you go for that DT score?

[–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 2 points3 points  (3 children)

It's devised by academics, so it's about as good as tests get. But still, it's just a test so it's obviously not flawless. See it as an indicator rather than a diagnosis.

The “short dark triad test” is an official test developed in 2011 by Delroy Paulhus and Daniel N. Jones to provide a more uniform assessment of dark triad characteristics.

[–]OakTr3E 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Had to try it myself. Got low on narcissism (11) and psychopathy (6). But somewhat high on machiavellianism (62). My machiavellianism probably was much lower as BP. After reading " It usually stems from a lack of respect or disillusionment for others." I had to look up the meaning of disillusionment:

"A feeling of disappointment, akin to depression, arising from the realization that something is not what it was expected or believed to be, possibly accompanied by philosophical angst from having one's beliefs challenged. ""The act of freeing from an illusion; the state of being freed therefrom."

Makes total sense from my perspective. My changed perception towards others and how I have adjusted my behaviour after swallowing the red pill definately stems a lot from disillusionment. A good word!

I also realize now that since I have become (a lot) more machiavellian. I am a bit of a noob at it. I am used to speak out about things and sometimes I might reveal things that I should not reveal. Some RP posts here have reminded me to be more secretive about your true motives. I "want to" explain why I do what I do. Morally justify the things I do (think/plan). But people aren't capable of understanding and maybe some of it isn't even moral (because it serves no purpose in aiming for "maximum moral behaviour", whatever that is, since people wont reciprocate). So just shut up OakTr3e.

[–]Ulquiorra_Schiffer 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Of course, of course. A test could never substitute an evaluation by a real psychologist, even one devised by psychologists.

Thanks for this.

[–]TravellingIndian 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But not many dark triads would actually want to be evaluated in person and let out their secret. A test like this - even with very limited use of knowing yourself - is probably better as a whole.

[–]the_real_chronos 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I'm actually quite economical with who I use, and usually end things with me coming off as the morally superior person. I don't bother to fuck with people for the joy of it - it is too much work with little payoff, usually.

Regardless, I consider myself trustworthy, and with those I truly value: a good friend. I prefer to be subtle with the people I experiment with. Discretionary and subtle power is one of the most asphyxiating forms of warfare you can use against someone.

It is admirable to adhere to a code of ethics. I can understand why you would want to think highly of yourself as a man with a code, but the truth is that, the law of the land rests in those who do not shy away from darkness.

I don't mean ill will towards humanity, only indifference. Again, in this case, this woman is already broken. She behaves with the typical underlying daddy-issues as modern women. You might as well see things to their end and ride out that crashing train in full to get your fill.

In all likelihood she will end up with a chump and she will still daydream about you for the rest of her days. Give her something to dream about, and something for you to remember fondly later on in old age.

This is no sin. You cannot turn rubble to gold. Neither do you own a broken man an undeserved gift. "Let the dead bury their own dead", as Jesus said (heh).

[–]Entrefut 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I feel like people don't understand the best Dark Triads are the ones who get exactly what they want, without even knowing it.

If OP was an amazing Triad, he would know EXACTLY how to string the girl on, without letting her get too attached, because in that case it's of minimal damage to her and therefore his personal reputation.

Men who go out to destroy the world don't realize that it puts them at the top of a piece of shit. Men who improve the world while moving up, end up in a position of unimaginable power. The difference between a Hitler Character and Religious figures is an important one to understand. Both are immensely powerful, but only one left an empire that lasted for 1000s of years.

[–]antariusz 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I've run across lots of alpha widows now, I figure it's only fair to leave a few of my own.

[–]classerrr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But wouldn't a dark triad character not care at all about leaving women in a better state? To him all that would matter would be satisfying himself and using others to achieve this.

Yes, this is true. But you give them some value in order to take from them. But, of course, you can make them believe you gave them value. You do your own cost–benefit analysis and if <leave them in a worse state> is something that could damage you, then it is simple: you don't do it.

Illy had a dream one day: he wanted to obtain these so called "good traits" of psychopaths. He pedestralized psychopaths, until one day he recognized he cannot be a psychopath. So what the fox says when she can't reach the grapes? The grapes tastes bad says the fox.

He is hamstering about this ethics. It is clear he is right, he is just stating obvious things: some psychopaths are blind by their own sense of powerfulness which makes them not efficient.

Those who cannot control themselves are doomed to be controlled by others and/or by their own senses.

Illy needs to attack because he is insecure. The strong one does not need to go around throwing stones in the face of others.

[–]Entrefut 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Making unnecessary enemies is idiotic.

[–]meanjelly 0 points1 point  (2 children)

If this is what you want then you should read up on master/slave dynamics in the bdsm community.

There is nothing wrong with wanting this type of relationship but in the community there are regulations that are followed.

Essentially guidelines to follow for the health and safety of both partners as what you end up summiting her to is Stockholm syndrome, their needs to be consent.

M/s relationships are not something to take lightly...

An example would be at the end stage of the relationship where you control everything. What happens if she eats when/what you tell her? And if something happens to you after 20 years of only eating when commanded?

There are protocols in place for this. Also suddenly going no contact with the submissive in this type of dynamic is fucked up beyond belief. Especially considering the suicide rate of individuals of this nature.

If you condition an individual to this level there needs to be a rehabilitation period in which the submissive is made to make individual choices more and more until they can function without you.

M/s relationships are rare in the community and for a damn good reason.

[–]the_real_chronos 0 points1 point  (1 child)

M/s relationships are just too much work. I would tire of it and leave and this would honestly destroy the other person. Which is why I tend to leave a plate/girl after a while for her own good and before it gets too complicated for me to deal with.

[–]meanjelly 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agreed, which is why they are so rare.

[–]tenientj 0 points1 point  (3 children)

The goal of this community, and of most men, is to utilize traits of dark triad personalities for mutually beneficial and constructive purposes. The keyword is traits of the personalities, and not the personality in its entirety. Don't get it wrong, the dark triad is a personality disorder, and is destructive in its actual undertaking. As a social species, suffering from the dark triad as a personality disorder IS dysfunctional, to the greater operation of the human species as a functioning system.

There is nothing inherently "dark" about the red pill, it's merely like science, in that is explores and showcases the truth as to how reality works. With that, there is the ability to exploit for a functional purpose, and to exploit for a dysfunctional purpose.

I wasted a lot of time in my life trying to emulate the dark triad personality, rather than adapting traits of it to benefit my functional greater goals. Even having emotion, something that newbies will neglect to realise the subtleties of, can be a part of an alpha male provided that they're functional, and what the alpha desires. I like feeling good with my LTR, and when things are functioning, yes I enjoy her soft femininity from an emotional aspect, as well as enjoying her submissive sexuality from a sexual aspect.

Good, feel good, positive emotions serve a purpose to reward the good behavior of others, including yourself (CBT), and they are pleasurable. Being stoic and emotively empty in all contexts is not functional.

[–]LEARNINGISPWR 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree with you. Most don't understand how emotional and crazy people (esp women) can get if they feel played in the end. Remember folks, a good majority of murders happen due to crimes of passion....

[–]Force_Titan 18 points19 points  (0 children)

"bitches aren't planets, you can't spin em for eternity."


[–]smokingmonkey420 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I can see the logic behind "1 man 2 women" creating competition and keeping bitches in check. Except, how do you reconcile this with the fact that a significant amount of men will be left in the dust? As we all know, lonely men with time on their hands is a dangerous proposition.

[–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We spent some time without contact, but as soon as I got accepted into med school and posted about it in my fb(around march) she suddenly decided to contact me again.

It's not applicable on a grand scale. The demographics don't support it unless we have two women born for every man and every man is alpha enough to maintain it. Not something society as a whole can adopt, but some men can have this setup for themselves.

[–]OakTr3E 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You do not reconcile it. The world is a place where those who use pointy elbows get more out of life. And everyone uses it from time to time. Trying to treat everyone "fairly and just" and never compete against others means people will walk over you, often.

[–]tangman 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Wow damn good post. I was thinking "this is kind of fucked up" and you summed it up perfectly.

[–]BrunoOh 9 points10 points  (2 children)

You be alpha widowin'.

Let Lisa go

Isn't that going to happen if he drops her right now?

[–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 69 points70 points  (1 child)

You could have a standard economic crash that bounces back quickly or you could have what happened in '08. Except bitches don't recover from an 08 crash, they turn into Somalia.

[–]AdmiralVonJackass 7 points8 points  (2 children)

I think of Nietzsche's "Master Morality" when I see situations like this. When in positions of power over others, it is a test of character. A just man will lead them to greater things, while a cruel man will lead them to ruin.

I'm not an advocate of blind white knighting, but if we are to request women to strengthen their moral character, it would be blunderous to not lead by example.

[–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 12 points13 points  (1 child)

I want to develop a philosophical system based on Nietzsche/Confucius and Machiavelli in the future. I agree with your premise.

[–]bama79rolltide 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I would love a course or a blueprint on this...

[–]semondemon24 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Always have the best response. Thank you, friend.

[–]Mastros34 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Great advice. To add to that if you can tell a woman is fighting herself over knowing she can't be long term but still wanting to be with you it's best to just let her go. I've had a couple plates who I told upfront would never turn into a relationship (of course they take this as a challenge). And once they start getting lots of feelings and realize they won't be able to change you, they will try to take some time to let their feelings subside. Of course at this point their very vulnerable so it's best not to lead them on as you will leave them feeling lied to etc.

Remember alpha with some beta qualities are what woman look for in a relationship so the more pure alpha you keep it the better the chance they won't try to LTR you.

[–]OakTr3E 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Of course at this point their very vulnerable so it's best not to lead them on as you will leave them feeling lied to etc.

Good post! If you want to feel honest about how you do things. Don't use tricks to keep her when she starts to realize you really are uncontrollable and will not commit to her. Giving off signs that "you might change" just to keep her a bit longer is not only manipulative but immoral. At least up until now you have stated what you want, followed your words and she have had the chance to leave at anytime if she didn't like it. If you give off signs that "you might change", well I am a bit disgusted by such behaviours but of course I am not here to tell people what to do (I might suggest things though but I doubt a psychopath will be convinced). I am here for information, getting it, analyzing it and spreading it.

[–]bautron 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Now thats is a trend to end this destructive culture instead of playing it.

Nobody trusts anybody anymore and a heavy air of cynicism is notorious.

And to reinforce this decision, leaving a girl better can avoid a psychotic retaliation.

[–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 12 points13 points  (1 child)

And to reinforce this decision, leaving a girl better can avoid a psychotic retaliation.

The only thing that will get most of the "amoral" (read: immoral) fucks on this board to listen to you. Telling them how it affects them. They have no concept of common decency and view it as "weak" or "blue pill" because they're fucked in the head. Might is right, but if everything is amoral then that means you have a choice to do good or to do bad. You can be moral or immoral and whatever you pick depends on your own survival (is it necessary for me to be immoral here? no? ok I'll be moral then.) These guys don't understand the concept of being powerful enough to be altruistic. Instead they see power as way to be exploitative/sadistic. Apparently that's a norm that's meant to permeate TRP. I'm strong as fuck and I don't adhere to this bullshit. All the dark shit we talk about it? USE IT WHEN NECESSARY (one night stands / getting jobs? - fine) helping bitches ruin their families? Nah don't be an accessory.

If it's not necessary, it's pointless and you're just making the world a shittier place by endorsing being a cunt. I don't endorse this shit for a second. Real tired of people hiding behind amorality to be assholes. I already made a topic on it before. Not going to argue with the same fucks again, there's nothing for me to gain from that. I'll have a bunch of people like me and a bunch of people hate me for my views, not really bothered either way. Disagreeing with my stance on morality doesn't make me blue pill either, it means you don't understand me or don't care about my reasoning. Cunts will be cunts, don't have to like 'em or support 'em in that behaviour though.

[–]LEARNINGISPWR 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Jesus, amen.

I ignore 90% of the crap here because it's clear these kids don't truly understand what it means to have power and use it in a constructive manner. You, sir, have a solid head on your shoulders and I'm looking forward to reading more of your stuff.

[–]ind3lible08 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This really put a lot into perspective for me

[–]Mihawk01 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Great post, made me think a bit.

You do make a lot of assumptions in this post. That being alpha widowed will be bad for her, that she won't be alpha widowed by the very next guy, that him leaving her isn't going to turn her into a suicidal bitch, etc, etc, etc. Also, this kind of "morality" can often be the start for much more moralizing, and in the end you get a fucking BETA chump.

If at the end of the day he enjoys time spent with her, and enjoys filling her pussy full of cum, and she enjoys it as well, why stop it? You mention head games as being something bad... Yet we all know bitches love those games. They love having their head fucked, and they loving fucking that head back. Maybe what she felt that night he left her, and that morning she came back will be the most intense feeling she ever felt, that she just loved looking back at it. Maybe she will be forever grateful for giving her that moment, that moment where she felt truly alive and one with the world. If he didn't fuck with her head like she loves, she would have left him long ago.

So overall I do feel living it up to OP to decide what to do is best, and if he enjoys her company, and she does his, I see no reason to go ending it real soon on purpose. He might even decide he fucking enjoys her company so much, he will wife her up, who knows.

From my experiences with plates, they just all fade with time, once the bitch realizes that her deep throating isn't going to make you spend the rest of the eternity with her. So shit will end in time anyway, why hurry it?

My 2 cents.

[–]colovick 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Congrats on showing a conscience. It's refreshing to see someone show both mastery and control. Ruining a girl's life isn't the point and probably never should be. I definitely support the idea of leaving a girl better off than you found her.

[–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I definitely support the idea of leaving a girl better off than you found her.

When the sub was small, "leave 'em better than you found 'em" was a phrase that came up time and time again. It's gone now.

[–]colovick 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I've been here somewhere between a year and 18 months and it's the first time I've seen the concept posted. It fits my personal style, so again, thanks for continuing to improve the quality of posts here.

[–]1Rumble_in_the_Jungle 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Plate spinning is good, but leave 'em better than when you found 'em.

Sexual strategy is amoral, we all know that, but let's not pretend that anything good is happening here. If she dumps you, she feels like she wasted her time. If you dump her, her N-count is higher and she has a bit more of alpha widow in her. There is no possible outcome besides a happy life-long commitment that could possibly leave her "better."

[–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Yeah cuz he already let it go on too long / she got attached real fast. Now its damage control mode.

[–]john-b 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's the exact thing I was thinking when I read his whole OP. Nothing disgusts me more than abuse of power & power games.

[–]Telochi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think this is a good assessment, sex has an economy of its own and monopolies hurt that economy greatly. Competition can be very helpful.

[–]tickle-me-azathoth 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I usually lurk cause I'm not actually redpill, but if I did subscribe to the philosophy, I hope it would be in the manner you have. You have embraced the facts of the philosophy while rejecting heartlessness

[–]Ovadox 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd say the OPs behavior is textbook dark triad. I don't disagree with what you said but perhaps you should consider taking "Dark Triad Expert" out of your tagline.

[–]Entrefut 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I see you've REALLY been thinking my suggestion through. I was really hoping you'd make a post that goes farther into it that I can right now! Love your writing!

[–]Movonnow 0 points1 point  (0 children)


[–]TehFuggernaut 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, this story sounds like straight abuse. Glad you have girls vying to be with you OP - but if a girl shows she's jumping through hoops to be your one and only, let them down soft and move on if you don't have good/decent intentions. All you do is fuck with their heads.

[–][deleted]  (3 children)


    [–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 14 points15 points  (0 children)

    She can't get promoted. She fucked OP and cooked for him to show her motherly/relationship qualities but he's still not interested. All I could add is "make yourself available, but not too available, tell him no sometimes, make him long for you by standing out and not always being available - but don't piss him off by always saying no or he'll next you." Also: "don't whine all the time, don't be vapid and arrogant, be pleasant, show humility, be soft and sweet." These things matter a lot when a guy is considering switching a plate over from plate to LTR. These are the psychological aspects that separate plates from LTRs. Also, if you try to emulate these qualities simply to get a man to commit, your mask will slip. When it does, he will abandon you. Don't try to fake it because you're lazy and want your own way, actually become what men want - they can have the kind of man you want.

    Sometimes you can get almost everything right as a woman, and if the guy is at a time in his life when he's not ready for an LTR or he just wants to go out and be a stud, there ain't shit you can do about it. Trying to make him settle with you is wrong just like trying to force a woman to remain a plate is. But people are selfish and try to impose their control to the detriment of both (drama and bullshit galore!) In these situations, a woman needs to know when to cut her losses and look for a man who does want an LTR with a lady who has demonstrated some measure of quality.

    Unfortunately, most women are drawn in only more when a man says he doesn't want anything more and he's all too happy to let her continue to make a fool of herself because he's getting fed and fucked. In this way women only make it tougher on themselves chasing unattainable men who only want to fuck them. Get too obsessed over the man and this is how men get spermjacked, because women think forcing him into fatherhood is a way to reassert control and get the unattainable man. This is very wrong, just not on the man, but on the kid too. Women need to stop this fucked up shit and trying to beat men at the game, because they'll never win the war. They'll win a battle here or there but they won't win the war because you can't force a man to love you. Even if you somehow did - the prize you wanted would crumble, he would hate you and neither of you would be happy. He won't "learn to love you" if he doesn't like you after he's fucked you he never will.

    If you aren't what he wants, you aren't what he wants. The "delicate" female ego needs to get to grips with that. Just because you choose if he fucks, it doesn't mean you get to choose if he loves. He does. Women need to know when to cut their losses and realise "this guy will never love me the way I want him to, now I need to find a guy who will."

    As for general strategy for women to bag RP men /r/redpillwomen is where you want to go. Although I don't really lurk there, too estrogenic for my liking. In that regard shoot me PMs (rather than pollute the main board with RPW shit.)

    [–]AssedM 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Its almost impossible to get promoted, unless you wait around long enough for the guy to get old and unattractive which i'm guessing isn't want you want. Thats why the impression you make before the relationship is so important. You have to make the guy think highly of you before you date because most quality guys only demote, they do not promote. Say a guy meets a great chick he is really into, they both like the same things and she comes from a good family. He wants a LTR with her and possibly considers marriage. Say after a month or two he finds out she has fucked 20 guys before (or just 1 guy that is a known scumbag), game over for the girl, she is automatically worth less in his eyes and forever becomes demoted to plate or lower.

    The only hope for the girl is besides waiting and getting treated like shit (which still probably won't work out), is to leave and find another guy ignorant or lower value enough to accept her past. This is where I disagree with Illimitable man in that you should leave them better than you found them. I think that is impossible, because no matter what the girl has one more guy on her notch count and if she still has a good impression of her ex, she will be an alpha widow ruined for most guys after. I agree with him thought just because you can't make her better you shouldn't degrade her into whoredom and leave her in ruin. I prefer minimizing the damage as best I can but still have to accept there will be damage. Its really the woman's responsibility to properly screen the guys she fucks prior by having self-control and waiting long enough to get a true impression of who he is rather than the front he puts up to get laid. You can only blame yourself for picking a loser or a player. Its your life, and you should take the time to learn and know better to not fall into those traps.

    [–]calloberjig 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    | I prefer minimizing the damage as best I can but still have to accept there will be damage

    This strikes me as truth. Plate game has an inherent emotional entropy, especially for the female. Perhaps this is offset by the male gaining experience/confidence, and screening another one out...

    [–]Hatorader 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    I wish the assholes before me woulda left my current gf better than when they found her, but what can you really expect from black Jamaican street garbage? Now I'm stuck with a girl I can't marry or have kids with because she gave away everything sexually and there's nothing left for me. Life's fucked up sometimes. Worst part is, I can't seem to make her understand that because she can't do more for me sexually than she did for those other guys, I'm the same value to her as those other guys, or even lower value, no matter how special she claims I'am to her. And because she's literally done everything, or let it be done to her, we can never surpass that because there's nothing left to surpass, everything's been given away already.

    [–]synadmin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    whoa dude. You need to keep reading TRP. So many contradicting things here.

    You don't LTR an alpha widow for exactly the reason you stated, and you definitely don't try to explain those reasons to her.

    She is strictly plate material, but since i dont think you have the skills yet to turn her into one your better off just letting her go and starting fresh.

    [–]circlhat 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    because she is in love with you

    No she is not, I had the same exact thing, I had a girl cook and clean for me and tell me she only wanted to see me, I wanted a LTR and guess what happen

    She cheated on me in two days and she was the one who suggested exclusivity.

    This girl will drop his ass if he fails one shit test, as long as he is honest with her and doesn't lie which he didn't he is in the moral high ground.

    He is not amoral at all, he says I want to fuck other girls, thus making her love him more.

    Plate spinning is good, but leave 'em better than when you found 'em.

    White knighting at his finest , seriously you know good and well that there are 52,000 other guys who are good looking and she knows who will fuck her and treat her right but she choose him, he shouldn't alter a single action in his method of dealing with women.

    [–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    She cheated on me in two days and she was the one who suggested exclusivity.

    He's not suggesting it, she's pushing for it - different situation.

    This girl will drop his ass if he fails one shit test, as long as he is honest with her and doesn't lie which he didn't he is in the moral high ground.

    Simple views for simple people.

    White knighting at his finest

    Guess you're idiot knighting at it's finest. Come in on your high horse droppin' that superior knowledge.. except it isn't. Run along.

    he shouldn't alter a single action in his method of dealing with women.

    Tell him that, not me. I don't need to know or care how you think he should deal with it.

    [–]circlhat 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Tell him that, not me. I don't need to know or care how you think he should deal with it.

    Why would I tell him?, I agree with his actions I disagree with you,

    Red pill preaches "don't lie and be yourself" , you are asking him to alter his personal morals for this women or else he is going to fuck her up.

    You are implying men are responsible for women's feelings and we should tread carefully with their emotions. This is why men are blue pill, because they don't want to hurt a women's feelings and now we are drawing a line

    Simple views for simple people.

    You got me there, one shit test was a bit harsh and simplistic but things will spiral out of control fast. She is with him because he is the way he is, you know good and well there are plenty of alpha's who want to commit.

    She choose him , she can leave and if she is hurt its her fault, if she wants to be a bitch to men because of him, its her own fault.

    To me this is white knighting, It is inconsistent, as it is suggesting that he is treating her poorly for not committing to her, when obviously she hasn't met his standards.

    If he changes by giving her commitment she will lose interests fast, as she is addicted to the drama.

    [–]Fetish_Goth 34 points35 points  (7 children)

    After I got divorced I started dating and was meeting lots of girls on OKC. I had a night of crazy sex that left scratches all over my back the day before another girl I had started talking to was to come over and spend the night. We were standing in the kitchen and she saw the scratches. She asked if there was another girl. I said yes. She briefly got pissy, but then said to me "I like competition" before we went back into the bedroom.

    What surprised me about girls these days, is that they don't expect exclusivity as a default. Dating has changed so much. They all know what things like FWB and open relationships are. Most are cool with BDSM. If they don't want to be a plate, they will tell you up front, but most girls in the dating "scene" are talking to other guys. Competition is the default.

    [–]FrameWalker 44 points45 points  (6 children)

    90% of the girls I've slept with since TRP express great knowledge of the situation. I have a deep suspicion that TRP isn't some super secret cult knowledge we've stumbled upon - but a manual to help betas catch up with the rest of the world. Those of us who didn't "just get it."

    I had never spun plates before TRP, but most girls I meet have been spun. Who's doing the spinning, and how do they learn to do it? It's passed down through generations and through friends. Greek life on college campuses for example.

    TRP is not written by Alphas for Alphas. It's written by escaped Betas for soon to be MGTOWs. But damn, it works.

    [–]Fetish_Goth 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    most girls I meet have been spun. Who's doing the spinning, and how do they learn to do it? It's passed down through generations and through friends. Greek life on college campuses for example.

    This is a great observation. It's true. Hell, this is the way dating used to be back in the day. Girls and guys would date multiple people before "going steady". The only difference today is the sex. A date today easily leads to sex tonight. That shouldn't change things, and in fact, girls like guys that can fuck the shit out of them and not get all weird about it afterwords.

    [–]colovick 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    It was even encouraged because going steady would risk you having sex. Social acceptance is the only thing that's changed.

    [–]colovick 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Women know this stuff by default. It's like asking them what breathing is. They grow up learning it and learning to keep it secret. Guys grow up hearing what they want us to hear and, if you're lucky, bits and pieces of this from your father and social circle.

    [–]AbsoluteAltitude 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    That's a perfect description

    [–]FarOrAMess 14 points15 points  (3 children)

    Great stuff. How exactly did you tell Lisa that a plate of yours is going to be there?

    [–]Super_Positive 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Yeah lots of girls are slutting it up, but even a grade A cumguzzler is going to be offended if you tell her she's just 1 of 2 'plates'.

    [–]FarOrAMess 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Due to the lack of response, I think we can assume he didn't let the truth ruin a good story.

    [–]krohlm[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I actually answered this in another comment.

    which seems to have disapeared. I sent her a text as a "by the way". I dont remember the exzact wording. I'm very upfront with women about the fact that I'm spinning plates and not offering a relationship and I'm seeing others. Some get miserable over it but many women dont. The answer I often hear is along the lines of "o great! so many guys get all clingy after you have sex with them" blah blah.

    I dont hide the fact from them I just tell them early "look, I dont discuss the other girls I'm seeing. If that shocks you, well it also means I wont be discussing you to them." I'm effectively using a moral justification to create mystery and they then can dedicate themselves to trying to gather info covertly. like I'll look up a restaurant on zomato and take her there singing its praises and she'll assume I've taken another girl here already.

    [–]Theone1992 13 points14 points  (3 children)

    At all these superhero stories I would reall like to see what these girls look like. They are probably a 5 or a 3 at best. 'Her ex was a fat gamer' yet you still ranked her as a 6. In my opinion she is probably a 4 pushing 5. Met her on tinder aswell. I'd like to see you try this plate vs plate with a solid 9 and see this tactic backfire

    [–]mackstarmagic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    That is one of the things I disagree with here. Unless your absolutely fucking balling, trying to introduce another girl to your main inst going to go well for you. Girls above a 7 are not going to play that game.

    [–]cherrypoptart27 12 points13 points  (4 children)

    The day before Rachel tells me she has changed her mind and is going. I expected this, told Lisa one of my other plates will be there, if she's uncomfortable with this I'll go alone. She of course refuses this and insists on going (what a little trooper).

    Serious question: how did you word this? Were you like "yea another girl I'm seeing will be there"?

    [–]BhiQ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I take it she knows they're not exclusive.

    [–]colovick 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Since you're asking how to do that, I simply tell any girl in seeing that unless we're dating, there will be others. I won't rub it in your face or be disrespectful about it, but others will come and go.

    It gets the message across and let's then know the expectation. If they stay, they're saying they are ok with that and any blow ups over seeing another girl I'm with aren't to be tolerated. There's no guarantee they won't get mad anyways, but if it was truly a deal breaker, they'd leave when I say that.

    [–]cherrypoptart27 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    What is the timeline for that? Do you initiate that conversation or wait for her to inquire about it?

    [–]colovick 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Just whenever it feels natural to do so. Some girls it's before we do anything, others it's a few weeks into it. The important part is to never set the expectation of exclusivity. Lying will get them angry. Telling them something they don't like straight up, is fine.

    [–]Hyajuko 56 points57 points  (10 children)

    Lmao I've been reading this shit for weeks now and I'm sorry but some of the posts here sounds like someone's fantasy and creative writing.

    [–]3 Endorsed ContributorSkorchZang 18 points19 points  (0 children)

    Especially that part at the door, "She anal trains, deepthroats my ICBM, BDSM, and doesn't give me emotional crap over things that are her own fault"...

    Try saying all that out loud while stoically facing a door, without even looking at your imaginary rebel bitch. Man, what a rush.

    [–]2emptyform 6 points7 points  (5 children)

    If you are a high SMV male in a major city, this scenario is not that far-fetched.

    [–]infapwetrust 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Maybe I'm just not in top 5% SMV group yet, but I want to mention that spinning plates is something that seems impossible for me

    [–]2emptyform 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    You don't have to be in the top 5% to do that, probably more like top 20%, if even that. As another poster said, girls don't expect exclusivity early on anymore.

    [–]Hyajuko 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    I don't doubt it but come on man, this doesn't sound too believable especially the way it's written.

    [–]2emptyform 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    The dialogue was probably not exactly what was said, but the effects of overt competition can drive women to do absolutely insane behavior.

    [–]BFMCBeaner 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Or look at it this way, apply a lot of the knowledge hidden to you for so long and get out there and push the boundaries in what you know or what you think you could do.

    I come here for satisfaction in seeing men become men again after either being raised as supplicating door mats by single mother house holds, an intact family where the father is a supplicating door mat and you ape your fathers behaviors for the simple fact is you are a product of your environment.

    A little more about me I guess would be 24 years ago until I became a high school senior, previously I was a mix of what we deem Red pill/blue pill, with a little more on the side of Blue. It was a long awakening after my Junior year at 16 getting broke off from a chick lying to me that my eyes were opened. That and an adult woman neighbor I was nailing when I cut her grass while her husband was at work that showed me the nature of women. I became more assholeish or caddish (bad boy) in nature and it worked like a charm. Even back then dating and spinning multiple plates, sleeping with dudes wives and girlfriends, threesomes and other shit were always on the table.

    It wasn't until I got older when I tempered myself to become a more moral man in addition to the asshole residing inside.

    I would say in closing most guys that come here take this to heart and run with the ball because they've had their heart stomped on by women and change the whole paradigm of their existence. Most guys here are youngsters trying to figure out the world. I'm a 40 year old Tattooed and bearded motorcycle caveman that has seen it all and done it once, twice if I like it that has no shortage of women banging on my doors. So quit reading and disbelieving and as we soldiers say, "shoot, communicate and move on out!" report to higher with updates.

    [–]The_Americano 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    All these FRs sound like comedy until they happen to you and you end up writing one.

    [–]johnyann 12 points13 points  (2 children)

    The key here is that Lisa is an 8, and Rachel is a 7.

    I had something similar happen once. Wasn't spinning plates, but I had an ex, who was an 8 meet my new girlfriend, who is a super sweet girl but looks-wise at the time a 6(one of the perks of being a personal trainer is that your LTR tend to get a lot hotter when you can get them a heavily discounted gym membership. Chick is now a solid 9 and I couldn't be happier).

    Anyway, that's totally on a tangent. Back to my point. Ex was noticeably more attractive at the time than my current girlfriend. When the ex met the new girl, the ex practically laughed in my face about it. Pretty much proved to her that she really was too good for me. After all, you are what you eat. When you're with a 6, to all other girls that makes you a 6. Not gonna lie, I was a little bummed about it, like anyone tends to be when that door to an ex(at least just with casual sex) just closes that hard and that fast.

    Rachel reacted the way she did because she saw a girl that was more attractive. And chicks these days love nothing more than to date out their league. That's why the anger probably turned into motivation.

    Going forward, you can still probably keep the plates going, but I'd keep the two the fuck away. Lisa seems cool as fuck, and I personally would actually drop Rachel for her.

    [–]gentleViking 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    After having spun plates and main plated a solid 8 for a while last year. I would totally LTR up with a 6 if she was quiet, calm, didn't shit test me too much, and someone I could have a decent conversation with. I was telling one of my guy friends this the other day. The reality is spinning plates, going out, always gaming is a lot of fucking work. At the moment I've got work and then ambitions outside of work that could easiy take up nearly 100% of my time/energy. You did good. I'd totally LTR up with a 6 if she were the right stuff. They're hard to find though I've noticed. Even better if they can hit the gym and be transformed into a 9.

    [–]Dickwad 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Think you got op's girls mixed up.

    [–]Ktmouse 14 points15 points  (4 children)

    OP are you overweight? /slash are the girls overweight? I always view RP from the perspective of beautiful people (habit) but this reads like all parties involved are fat. No offense just curious.

    [–]krohlm[S] -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

    No not really. I'm about 14% but haven't measured in a while. I gym hard 2x a day every second day (a post for another day on if that's healthy or not).

    I met Lisa at a dance class and she's been dancing for years. She runs and is fairly fit. Rachel has a little puppy fat I guess but honestly not muuch. I'd say she needs to lose about 5 or 6 kgs and do weights.

    [–]Ktmouse 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Ah. I'm sure that puppy fat has a lot to do with her attitude in regards to Lisa. Very neat.

    [–]Theone1992 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Lisa runs and is fairly fit however looks like a train wreck. Rachel however is starting to resemble a cow and need 5kg of grass a day to feed her

    [–]Newdist2 6 points7 points  (1 child)

    Holy crap both of these women are damaged beyond repair. Don't LTR either of them.

    [–]1KyfhoMyoba 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Or are they perfect together? [pretend I linked here to a gif of a famous person giving a knowing smile]

    [–]thecommonreactor 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    This probably didn't happen.

    [–]Holden_Frame 11 points12 points  (0 children)

    I swear, sometimes TRP seems to be a contest of who can write a penthouse forum letter in the guise of the most colorful comic book villain.

    You can tell a lot of guys here watch way too much Game Of Thrones, House of Cards, etc.

    Many are fond of the "opinions of sheep" line but I prefer:

    "a king who must say he's king is no king at all"

    [–]john-b 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Damn, that's intense. It's almost like them knowing they are nothing more than a plate drives them wild, and the challenge of "being good enough to be considered an LTR" makes them do almost anything to meet your approval or expectations. No wonder once marriage kicks in, most "crazy, intense shit" women performed for their boyfriends is suddenly off the table.

    [–]Brzinajbrzi 13 points14 points  (9 children)

    OP. how much do you earn, how tall are you and what is your weight. Its an important question.

    [–]admirals_go_nuts 1 point2 points  (3 children)

    I'm 6'4 and 195 lbs fit. And that doesnt happen to me, so its irrelevant.

    [–]Brzinajbrzi 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Maybe you're ugly or poor, or both, like me xD

    [–]admirals_go_nuts 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    So u should have asked op, how tall, fit, handsome and rich he is lol

    [–]Brzinajbrzi 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Well, that is basically what I asked...

    [–]blacwidonsfw -1 points0 points  (4 children)

    Not really, I can see any type of guy acting out these events.

    [–]Brzinajbrzi 3 points4 points  (3 children)

    No, 7s and 8s, no... Maybe 4s and 5s...

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)


      [–]TimPartendale 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      You can't take things too seriously. Although I'm not sure why they always have to be "shit eating" grins and not just normal grins or "pussy eating" grins :D

      [–]Holden_Frame 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Don't forget the "cocky smirk"

      [–]Telochi 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      This is very interesting stuff, you handled it very well and made her see how immature and overly emotional she was being. This is very insightful indeed.

      I noticed a couple interesting things:

      Lisa: "I cant believe you did that to me."

      My feels radar had been tingling the whole evening so here comes the feels tsunami.

      Me: "Did what?"

      Lisa: "Have me meet one of your other girls, it really fucks with my head. Seeing you kiss her..."

      I think you touched upon it, but she blamed you for her emotions for her feelings. Rather typical behavior and it's interesting to see the principle in action. It really says something about Lisa.

      Her: "Where are you going?"

      Me: "Home, I'll talk to you in the morning when you sober."

      Her: "No wait, wait, wait." She grabbed my arm and I freeze dead still

      Me: "Let go of my arm." She looks at me like a deer caught in the headlights.

      Me: "I said-" She lets go.

      Me: "If you ever do that again it will be the last time you see me. Understand?" (I was somehow quite calm through this) She nods. Me: "Good."

      I really thought this part was interesting, notice how she was willing to get physical until you defended yourself with a stern order. I bet if you tried to get physical back she would claim you abused her. Yet when she grabs you it wouldn't be domestic abuse in the eyes of mainstream society.

      I also note that she excused your behavior with inebriation, and used it as an excuse to retreat with her dignity. She didn't want to admit she is wrong.

      [–]metricula 8 points9 points  (8 children)

      Everything else aside, a stunt like that would have gotten all three of you bounced from most reputable sex/swinger/BDSM clubs I've been to. Don't push stuff like that too hard if you want continued access to alt communities.

      [–]OneTouchHowMuch 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      Don't push stuff like that too hard if you want continued access to alt communities.

      Can you expand on this a bit more? I'm young but I don't want to start off on the wrong foot if/when I explore those communities.

      [–]metricula 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Sure! My best advice is to make friends with people who are actually "in" the community. You can do this by showing up to events, being polite, and asking questions. Keeping in touch with (and being vouched for) by active community members helps get you more willing partners at large play parties and get invited to more of the private parties.

      From my perspective, what happened between you and your dates at the club night would have been VERY unappealing drama if I'd known what was going on.

      It's also worth mentioning that much of organized BDSM is not very red-pill friendly in that a lot of the spaces hinge on women feeling safe and confident. If women don't participate, it would be A TON of men, mostly straight. Many women at these events are there because they get turned on by it; you don't necessarily need to "convince" them or escalate flirtation to maintain an upper hand when approaching new acquaintances.

      Tl;dr: BDSM is fun, organized BDSM isn't going to tolerate certain red pill principles.

      I'm not trying to say one or the other is "right" or bad or great, but it's a reality to keep in mind as you navigate the space.

      [–]metricula 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Sorry! Change references to "you" in the second bit to "OP".

      Good luck!

      [–]NotQuiteRedPill 3 points4 points  (3 children)

      Lisa, following the AWALT theory, will eventually stop deepthroat and anal, claiming she never really liked it and was just doing it to get you.

      Ok, so I'm a tad cynical.

      [–]Mastros34 5 points6 points  (2 children)

      Aka she'll make herself feel better by framing it as if you made her do those things because she's not a slut.

      [–]1IVIaskerade 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      She just got carried away in the moment. She's not really like that, and besides, she's changed now. She was young and adventurous then, but luckily for the next guy, she's dependable instead now.

      [–]Mastros34 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      If only that was true with stocks.

      [–]SoDamnCheezy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      You sound like you over reacted honestly. And wtf? She really texted you how she wanted to fuck you even more after that? C'mon bro.

      [–]GuildedCasket 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Quick question, what kind of BDSM party was this?

      [–]1Zanford 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Solid dread game. Pointing out her accountability for going was hilarious. It never ceases to amaze how instinctively girls will eschew responsibility for anything.

      I might've been less nuclear when putting Lisa in her place. Depends on whether her tone of voice was bitchy or just sad.

      [–]Ohmyqueef 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Remember that other post on the front-page (bout that woman who sliced that guys dick off twice); it would be prudent to not go so sadistic on the girl, as /u/IllimitableMan pointed out it does seem like she loves you and could go crazy with jealousy one day.

      I don't want anyone ending up like that other guy and losing his phallus.

      [–]pachan 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      you know, it would be helpful if you explained how you got to this point. how you got that chick so invested and into you, instead you just came here to brag.

      [–]krohlm[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I'm just describing a situation I found myself in. I was actually looking for feedback to how I held frame as this was the first true "frame attack" I've experienced.

      It look nearly all of my willpower to not break down and apologise and swear loyalty.

      [–]otivito 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      As a former applier of things I learned from PUA, I get it. Well done. It's all dandy while you're single and juggling. However, if you ever plan on being in a real and healthy relationship one day, none of that shit's gonna fly. Enjoy it while you can though man, cause when you're married you only get to sit and read about it.

      [–]nasty__nate 5 points6 points  (2 children)

      Damn you guys are gullible. This story is 100% bullshit.

      "Anal training"? It's called lube up and relax, it will hurt at first and then you will like it.

      I bet this dude is a virgin.

      [–]ExcelonB 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Yeah, this reads like some Frank Miller bullshit.

      [–]seattleron 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Women crave nothing more than a man loved by other women. Your SMV wa sthrough the roof that night, and you showed Lisa you have options. Both of these women will be deeply in love with you at this rate.

      [–]1NV0K3R 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Oh my fucking god women are hilarious. Bravo my friend bravo.

      [–]garlicextract 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      OP, let me ask - is Lisa LTR material? Would you ever consider an LTR with her, and if not, why?

      [–]krohlm[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I'm against LTRS for alot of reasons which may as well require a post on its own.

      [–]balancespec2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Wasn't her fat gamer ex at this party too? Did he see her make out with you?

      [–]Movonnow 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      Her: "No wait, wait, wait." She grabbed my arm and I freeze dead still

      Me: "Let go of my arm." She looks at me like a deer caught in the headlights.

      Me: "I said-" She lets go.

      Me: "If you ever do that again it will be the last time you see me. Understand?" (I was somehow quite calm through this) She nods. Me: "Good."

      Why did you react like that when she grabbed your arm? I've only had bp relationships before so my reaction to this would be to stay with her. Why did you turn so cold suddenly? (I feel this is another part of the bp guy inside me that i want to kill, please give me some guidance)

      [–]krohlm[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Because she's using her weakness as a weapon. Attempting to restrain me knowing I can't use my far superior strength against her. Knowing if I did I'd be straight to the slammer with the cops patting her little head about how brave she is.

      Its something I will always lose my shit over because its typical feminist "We all equal guys, I can do anything you can do cause I'm a gurl! But dont hit me, I'm a gurl!"

      [–]GhostOfAladdin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Okay. You need to empower this girl before she dumps you. Get it, it needs to be her idea to dump you and to find a better guy, in her mind.

      There you go.

      [–]_random_user_1 2 points3 points  (2 children)

      wow man seems u have everything sorted for u.Great FR for the guys in here to learn from cheers.

      [–]krohlm[S] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

      Not really, this is just the first time I got frame tested really hard. Spinning plates is easy. TRP in relationships/marriage is alot more difficult.

      [–]_random_user_1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      you should always be prepared for these shit-test and frame games hence keep working on it. relationships ok marriage naah i dont suggest marriage unless the girl is a total unicorn otherwise its a roller coaster of emotional pain and drama.

      [–]ETH_Zurich 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Holy crap. How do you spin plates like that? I commend you.

      [–]admirals_go_nuts 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      [–]Truggles 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      How exactly did you tell her you your other plate was going to be at that party? I imagine you didn't say plate. Did you just mention it as a fuckbuddy or something?

      [–]i_am_interneting 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      The best part of the story is, "What does she give you that I don't?!"

      This, more than anything, exposes the vanity of women. It was inconceivable that she wasn't the best girlfriend in the world.

      [–]sekzee 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      "I'm opening the front door when she shouts Her: "What does she give you that I dont?!"

      without turning around I answer

      Me: "Deepthroat, anal, bdsm and she doesn't give me emotional bullshit or blame me for her mistakes." I leave"

      I almost fuckin' lost it in the office when I read this.


      [–]finitely_eclectic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Very good FR. What blows my mind is that there are BDSM clubs out there that have actual attractive members. The ones near me are all 3-6's tops. Good on you man, good on you.

      [–]ECoast_Man 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Shit man. Nice.

      There is nothing else to add. Massive props.