all 112 comments

[–]ApiVat 77 points78 points  (8 children)

Liked it. Thank you for sharing. Rule of thumb: The world treats you as bad as you allow it - goes for everything.

[–]1TheReason13 20 points21 points  (2 children)

Many men will read this with nodding heads of approval, rebellious lip biting and involuntary fist clenching in agreement. They will sit there in their moment of revelation and day dream about laying down the law and taking back the jar of pickled testicles they naively gave their wife.

They will plan for it, prepare for that moment of revolt and bask in the feeling of justice and power that intoxicates them. They will drive home and unlock the door to their homes with the pride of new found purpose and determination. They will walk up to their wives with chest out and dominant posture, they will look their wives in the eye with Clint Eastwood's masculine dead calm and say:

"Hey honey.... Er... No I forgot the milk. Sorry. No you're absolutely right I'm useless at following instruction. Ill go get the milk right away."

Then whimper all they way to the store like an abused dog, whipped into obedience.

Just how much blue pill men fear their wives I'd an unmentioned and unexplored area. They may jest about it then grow quiet at realizing how much truth is in the humor and change the subject. So many men just don't know how to stand up to the wives, they just don't know the first thing about dominance.

However, there is one constant. You push a man too far, no matter how timid he is, there will come a point when he will step up, ground himself, and push back. We can only hope that they don't wait till its too late to make that stand.

[–]1independentmale[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I can't count how many times I lost frame and took a step back. Women are really, really good at convincing a man that he's the problem. Hell, sometimes she would do something wrong, I would call her on it, and after the ensuing argument ended somehow I was the bad guy, she was the victim and I was "in trouble" again.

It takes time and a lot of practice to get this right. There's a fine line between holding frame like a gentlemen and turning into a crazy asshole who really doesn't give a shit about her. She'll accuse you of the latter and that was really always my biggest fear as a born & raised "nice guy," but I eventually realized that she was full of it and just trying to play me. I treated her better than the vast majority of men would, provided her with a great life and so on. So when she attacked my character, I just let it roll off my back like water off a duck. I knew that I was doing well by her and that's all that mattered.

[–]frequentlywrong 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And many will read this and make sure they are never let it get as far as it did with him and so many others.

[–]16 Endorsed ContributorDemonspawn 65 points66 points  (0 children)

The question isn't who's going to let me; the question is who's going to stop me.

[–]absolut-times 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I've been reading TRP for a long time now, but this is the first time i'll leave a comment. Your story and the advice it includes, should be essential knowledge for every male human on this planet.

I've been in a kind of similar situation a couple of years ago, struggled with life and job, went full beta in my relationship, until the girlfriend i was deeply in love with broke up with me. In the following weeks i made a pact with myself to never be the one in a relationship again who is more dependent. That thought was my personal start into RP lifestyle, long before i heard/read the first time about the manosphere, TRP, etc.

Since then - that was about ten years ago - life has been good. And still is. I have a great job that i love, a wife that cooks and cleans and does everything in bed i want her to, and two awesome sons i love to spend my spare time with.

So follow his advice. This guy knows his shit.

[–]ohrico 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Brother, this is inspirational as hell. These are the posts that keep me coming back to this sub. Thanks.

[–]17 Endorsed ContributorWhisper 18 points19 points  (1 child)

Was there any consequence she could give me that she could actually enforce?

She could leave me. Divorce. That was really the only card she held.

That's the key concept here. Women are smaller and weaker than us. They cannot actually force us to do anything we don't want to do, unless they manage to enlist other males to do it for them.

This means that when they try to control us, it most often happens as a threat to withhold something... affection, sex, respect, whatever.

A man can live free of women's control if he remembers one simple principle:

He who cannot cast away a treasure at need is in chains.

No matter how good she is, no matter how much you love her, be psychologically prepared to walk away without ever looking back. at any moment.

[–]Overkillengine 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Corollary: Walking away from a woman is not a loss; it is an opportunity.

[–]1RBuddDwyer 8 points9 points  (0 children)

If I simply ignored the noises coming out of her mouth and did what I wanted to do anyway, what was her plan B? Withhold the mediocre sex I wasn't getting anyway? So what. Demand I sleep on the couch? I'll refuse and climb into bed anyway, what then? Was she going to carry me out there against my will? Sure would be entertaining to watch her try.

Was there any consequence she could give me that she could actually enforce?

She could leave me. Divorce. That was really the only card she held. I decided I would be OK with starting over. Even if she took me for everything, I could bounce back. I wasn't afraid of doing the bachelor thing and was reasonably certain I could take care of myself just fine thank you very much.

This right here is the crux of the mindset. Rollo Tomassi goes into more detail here, in the Cardinal Rule of Relationships. You are ready and willing to walk away, and you know you could do better. The turning point comes when she realizes it as well.

I hope to be at that point sometime soon.

[–]1AfterC 27 points28 points  (1 child)

Look at this fucking woman abuser. Red Pill is clearly for woman hating, angry men. How dare he do what he want to enjoy himself!!! Patriarchy, PATRIARCHY!!!1!!11!one!!1 /s

Patrice O'Neal: "A woman's power is in your fear of what she might do."

[–]1RBuddDwyer 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Okay, you guys down voting OP realize the first part is sarcasm, right?

Patrice O'neal quote is dead on.

[–]1RBuddDwyer 8 points9 points  (22 children)

Great summation of frame. I have been trying to adapt this mindset, but have been struggling.

  1. How do you address claims of inequality / selfishness? My wife works about as many hours as I do, and we both split time taking care of the kids / household / etc... How do I address claims from her that she is doing all the housework while I get to do what I want?

  2. What about when she wants to do something for herself, like take up a hobby, etc... but she cannot because she has to do other things around the house. She claims it's not fair that I get to do what I want, but she cannot.

What is the proper frame to address these? I know there is one, but I just have not found it yet.

[–]MetacognitiveMan 12 points13 points  (7 children)

Since I do as much or more than my wife for my family and am able to exercise and practice guitar every day, I treat these as shit tests.

The first is a complaint that she is doing more than you, but if you dig down into what she is counting, she may be leaving out a bunch of things you do.

With the second, if you dig down, you may find she is bullshitting you as well. How many hours a day does she watch TV?

You decide what is right for you and hold frame.

[–]1RBuddDwyer 4 points5 points  (5 children)

I get that, and my wife tends to take it in a different direction. She chooses to spend most all of her free time on our kids, work, or household stuff, and does nothing for herself. Whenever I try to do something for myself, on my own time, she subtly tries to guilt trip me for not spending all of my time on the kids, family, etc... like her (Recent example: I do not come home enough at lunch to take care of the dog, who does just fine all day long alone. She dotes on the dog constantly.) She almost sets herself up for a martyr type thing.

[–]MetacognitiveMan 9 points10 points  (3 children)

(My wife and I both work full time and, with bonuses, she makes more than I do as an engineer.) My response to my wife when she tried to say I was selfish and did things for myself when she didn't was, "Just because I'm following my own interests and doing things for myself doesn't mean you can't."

I also I am willing to work around her schedule. For example, I've been getting at 5 am to exercise for 6 months now and she exercises after work, so I usually pick up from school and get the kids dinner. I also have a shared Google calendar where I keep everything organized. She isn't good at updating it, but I always do to let her know what needs to be done and we figure out our compromises in advance.

I took charge of running the family and am slowly, over time, taking on more responsibilities (including responsibility to delegate). It is a lot more work then letting her do it and filling in, but we both are happier. I don't mind working more and have more satisfaction.

[–]1RBuddDwyer 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I had it in my mind that this was going to be the answer. I imagine that, combined with a higher SMV and her realization that you have options, would also tend to make her more compliant.

[–]MetacognitiveMan 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah. That is a big part of it.

[–]RedPillWife_June2014 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"Just because I'm following my own interests and doing things for myself doesn't mean you can't."


Women can have a difficult time pulling away from the children and the household to take time for themselves. "Man may work from sun to sun but a woman's work is never done." There will always be laundry, dishes, coloring, crafts, yada yada yada. It's human and easy (although not right) to transfer this personal guilt to our spouses.

I went through this with MrRPW. The roadmap looks different as the seasons of life change (children and dual careers both growing) but it's improved.

[–]1independentmale[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I used to get the kid thing from my wife as well. It wasn't about the kids, it was about her insecurities as evidenced by the fact that no amount of time with the kids was ever enough. I could dote on them all weekend but as soon as I wanted a few hours to shoot some pool with the guys, I was a "terrible father" who "is never here for us." Except that I was. 95% of my free time was spent with my family, but far be it for a woman to understand simple logic.

This is how I played it: I came home after work nearly every day and spent time with my family. We made dinner together, did homework, played games, etc. I made sure I interacted with the kids and helped my wife around the house. Hell, I did far more housework than she ever did, so she had no leg to stand on. After the kids were in bed, if I didn't have any plans with my wife or work to catch up on, etc, that was when I went out with my friends. Hard to accuse me of not being there for them when they're asleep (not that it stopped her from trying).

You have to decide for yourself how much time spent with kids & family is enough. Nobody can make that decision for you. Once you decide, stick to your guns. Hold frame. When she tries to guilt trip you, remember that a great many "fathers" are complete deadbeats. They don't even know their kids and certainly don't contribute financially to the household. My kids have a father who loves them, who works hard to put food on the table and purchase nice things for them and who spends time every day interacting with them. We talk, we play, we do homework together and so on. They've got it better than the vast majority of kids and I'll be damned if I'm going to feel guilty for treating myself to some time with my buddies once or twice a week after all the effort I put in.

"But I spend more time with them than you do." So? That's her decision. This is mine: I'm going out tonight.

As for the dog, you answered your own question: The dog is just fine by himself all day. He doesn't need somebody to come home during lunch and you're not going to be guilted into this nonsense. If she can't stand to be away from him all day, great, she's welcome to come home and play with him on her lunch break. You have better things to do; you'll play with him after work. Period, end of discussion.

[–]1Dev_on 0 points1 point  (0 children)

always. never remembered the 180 days a year I was a sea, now that i get more days off... why am I not working like a horse?

[–]BluepillProfessor 9 points10 points  (3 children)

Your description of this is quite damning to your position. What the hell kind of Captain goes out and 'does what he wants' while his First Officer is doing MORE than her fair share already and then has additional duties piled on so she cannot do what she wants? I think it describes a pretty shitty Captain with mutiny on the horizon.

Surely there is a fair compromise a leader could conceive. Hmm, what could you do to make it more fair? Help her fold the laundry? Do the dishes? Or hire a cleaning service? Be a leader and figure out what the hell needs to get done and get it done.

Yes TRP is sexual strategy and being the aloof asshole works to get laid. But I doubt your going to keep getting laid with this woman employing this strategy.

[–]Endorsed Contributorfluviant 10 points11 points  (1 child)

A bit of a recurrent theme I've seen lately is the idea that it's entirely possible to "fry the hamster" with too much alpha/dread. That frying is what leads to mutiny. They can only do so much before feeling completely used and unappreciated.

[–]RedPillWife_June2014 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for enunciating what I was trying to formulate! There is a /relationship/ here.

Personally I descended into a pit of hell called clinical depression under similar feelings (used/unappreciated both at work and at home). Drugs and therapy got me out after 15 months but a Captain should NOT damage his FO this way!

As feminism can hold an extreme point of view, so too can TRP - frying the hamster is a very, very bad thing to do. Don't go there, there is more than one way to "lose" your wife.

[–]1RBuddDwyer 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I think it describes a pretty shitty Captain with mutiny on the horizon.

I think this is the OP's point. The Captain, after evaluating his situation, realizes that mutiny might not be that bad after all. Once the First Officer realizes that the Captain is serious, and will deal with mutiny accordingly, then power shifts back to the Captain, who must decide how to use it. Hence, the Cardnial Rule of Relationships:

In any relationship, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least.

Another way to look at it is this: what good is having the power in a relationship when you don't use it?

[–]Planner_Hammish 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Take charge of your family; if she is saying that she is not getting enough time to pursue her own hobbies, instruct her to stop watching TV and take up those hobbies.

Don't get into "well I did this, and you did that", because it is going into her frame, and it is a logical argument to an emotional problem. It's more like "you have not expressed any interest in hobbies, and you need to take time for yourself to be a good wife and mother".

[–]1independentmale[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

What about when she wants to do something for herself, like take up a hobby, etc... but she cannot because she has to do other things around the house.

She can. She's choosing not to.

If household chores are eating her alive and she truly has no time, then something needs to give. Maybe you step in and take on a few more chores. Maybe you hire a maid to come in a couple of times a month and help out (they're not expensive). Maybe some chores can be automated or changed to greatly reduce the amount of time they take. If the kids are old enough to help out, they need to be doing so.

My bet is she would have the time if she decided to make the time. We make the time for the things that are important to us. If family is the only thing truly important to her, then she's going to spend all of her time on her family. There's nothing wrong with that, but she can't then complain that "it's not fair." Drop the kids off with family or a sitter and go do something.

Too many people live in a world of "I can't." It's easier for them than saying "I will" and putting forth the effort to make something happen. This, however, isn't your problem, with the exception that as her husband you should at least try to help her break out of this rut. Remember, though, you can lead that horse to water but you can't make her drink. Offer suggestions and when she rejects them all, go enjoy yourself with the confidence that you tried to help.

[–]rp_divorced 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The proper frame is to find a way that allows you to take care of things around the house and allows you time for your hobbies. This is a time management issue, not a fairness issue.

How old are your kids? Make them do some of the work as chores. Get up an hour early and do a load of laundry or pick up the house.

If you do these things and she's still complaining about fairness, then that's her problem. She can learn to manage her time better just like you did and enjoy her own hobbies.

[–]Enphuego 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Are you sure it's a well thought out complaint? She may just be sick of doing chores right now. You could just take her out to do something fun.

You could also sign her up for Yoga and remind her to go each day if you feel like she wants a hobby but doesn't really have the follow-through to get one.

[–]PizzaismyJam -1 points0 points  (5 children)

How about you help her, as marriage should be equal?

RP is a very different thing from chauvinism (though in many cases the line is thin).. however, do for her as you'd want her to do for you.

The golden rule if applied by females would save males a LOT of trouble.

Be the change you want to see.

edit: I'm not entirely sure if you are indeed unfair to her, or she's hamstering because she wants you to do even more.

[–]1RBuddDwyer 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Because the OP says:

I have earned the right to do whatever the fuck I want to do.

I am trying to reconcile the OP with the fact that I already do half the household chores and half the childcare, and have no time to do whatever the fuck I want.

Also, marriage is not equal. One of the base tenants of Red Pill theory is that men and women are not equal, and egalitarianism does not work in long term relationships.

[–]BluepillProfessor 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Now you say you do half the household chores and have no time to do what you want? Which is it? I think you mean IF you did your share of the household chores then you would not have all the time to do what you want. So about that.

I agree that marriage is not equal but have a different conclusion. A leader doesn't rely on his subordinates to do MORE work than he is doing. The Boss is the first person in the office and the last to leave. The Captain doesn't get to stay out with the boys playing Poker while the XO is manning the conn all night and then has to clean the decks. You are right though, it is NOT equal. You should be doing MORE than her unless she- not you- is the real Captain of this ship of yours.

[–]1RBuddDwyer 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Now you say you do half the household chores and have no time to do what you want? Which is it? I think you mean IF you did your share of the household chores then you would not have all the time to do what you want. So about that.

No, we currently split the chores about even. What I was asking about is when I do get to a point where I can make time for myself (either by taking time off from work, or staying up later at night), how do I handle it when my wife starts to complain that I am taking time for myself and not spending it on her, the family, or household stuff. She has a habit of setting herself up for martyr status by doing nothing for herself, and getting mad at me when I do not do the same. What I am also trying to reconcile is that right now there is not a lot of time for me to have any time to myself, and the chores are more or less evenly balanced. How far should I push to have my own time. How important is it? This is what I am struggling with, and why I asked the question. I feel like we are trapped in a co-dependent relationship where neither one of us is really happy because we do not have separate identities. This needs to change, and I am trying to find a way to change it.

The Boss is the first person in the office and the last to leave.

That, to me, is a boss who does not know how to effectively delegate, especially if he is doing mundane tasks.

You should be doing MORE than her unless she- not you- is the real Captain of this ship of yours.

So who really has the power in the relationship then? If the Captain is doing most of the work, is making the decisions, captaining the ship, etc... Where is the respect for chain of command? I'm sorry, but the Captain does not swab the decks, he runs the ship.

[–]1independentmale[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

how do I handle it when my wife starts to complain that I am taking time for myself and not spending it on her, the family, or household stuff

Give her a peck on the cheek, tell her you love her and go do your thing.

You don't have to convince her that it's OK for you to go out. You only have to convince yourself. If you're comfortable in the knowledge that you've done your fair share, go enjoy yourself and don't let her hamstering sway you. You've earned it.

You can also invite her to come along. Offer to line up child care. I did this often, but was regularly met with snide remarks about who I was going with or where we were going or what we were doing. My wife didn't want anything to do with any of it. That's fine, I just went and socialized with my peeps without her.

[–]PizzaismyJam -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If such is your predicament, then you are doing your fair share, and you shouldn't let her push you around, simply ever.

RP and common sense tells you she will try to do as much as you let her (as EVERY person does).

If you reward bad behavior (nagging, etc), you will get it. Here's the Summary on Operant Conditioning

I don't share the belief that he's "worked" to do as he pleases, because for as long others can think too, every action will bear a consequence. If you believe you are entitled to act in a particular way, then RP is not the forum for you, as continous self-improvement has already been discarded (through entitlement)

I failed to find that marriage should be unequal in rp theory, but I would like to see where you read it, as I could be wrong.

Men and women are not equal, as no person on earth is. That doesn't mean they are lesser than you, or deserve to be treated worse.

RP is evolutionary psychology applied to relationships. Not justified chauvinism.

Edit: If you are looking to treat relationships, like you treat employees you are gonna have a bad time.

Power differentials do nothing for long term relationships, as she doesn't owe you anything just because you exist, and unlike a job, no one is financially rewarded for it. I feel bad for any future women you might encounter, that are treated as minions, "Captain".

[–]matisseman 3 points4 points  (0 children)

"We accept the love we think we deserve."

[–]TheOnlyBliebervik 5 points6 points  (3 children)

I needed EXACTLY that. My girl tries to not let me do things with my buddies, like smoking cigars or whatever. The problem is it makes her increasingly angry when I do go out with my buddies. I don't know when she's going to get over it and stop trying to control me.

[–]1independentmale[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

She'll get over it when you stop letting her anger affect you. She does it because it works to secure your compliance. Laugh it off and go do your thing.

[–]dj10show 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The point is that you still have control over your life. She does it to the point where you've had enough, next, and on to the next one.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Amazing post, totally agree this should be sidebar.

[–]1favours_of_the_moon 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It's not your friend Bob who's an asshole. As always when a woman accuses someone of something, she's projecting.

[–]BluepillProfessor 8 points9 points  (2 children)

The more you comply, the more control she has over you and, by consequence, the less interest she has in fucking you.

Let her get mad. All she has is words and they are powerless over you if you declare it so.

The only power she has over you is the power that you give her.

Holy Mother of God! NOW I understand why so many frigid, sexless, harpy controlled marriages turn around ONLY when you reach the point where you really don't care if you file for divorce. Because reaching that point mentally REMOVES ALL OF HER POWER. If you hold frame in the face of her browbeating then the threatpoint of divorce is the only power she has.

The problem is, as OP found out, that as often as not once you get to that point, by definition you are going to have an extremely hard time forgiving her cruel, calculated campaign of Beta abuse.

Recovering Beta's need to understand something about women. ANY woman will make you fall in love with her, fuck you every day for years to seal the deal, and marry you. Then she will ALMOST ALWAYS start to withdraw the sex (often on the honeymoon) AND quickly turn into a vicious shrew who criticizes your every word and action, and makes your life a living hell. She will drive you to an early grave, and then piss on it. IF you let her.

[–]1independentmale[S] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Then she will ALMOST ALWAYS start to withdraw the sex (often on the honeymoon)

I didn't get to have sex on my honeymoon. Should have annulled the marriage the next day, but we had a baby girl already who needed her daddy (and I thought I was in loooooove and was all too eager to please: "It's OK, I understand, I hope your headache goes away soon, blah blah blah"). Wish I'd have known that fucking headache was going to last 15 years.

Live & learn.

[–]BlueChilli 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I didn't get to have sex on my honeymoon.

Me either brother. My bitch was too tiiiiiiiired.

Ah well. If someone had told then me all I know now, I wouldn't have believed them. Had to learn it the hard way. First hand experience.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (24 children)

What happens if, for example your wife is crazy.. and every time you 'try to go and do something' she threatens you, or your close friend's jobs? It's like the one thing she has that keeps me in line.. "oh if you do this, im gonna call in on your friend for this or that, or i'll call your job, etc.." I know shes probably only half bluffing, because she has called my job, and told them, that I am 1) stealing 2) doing meth, neither of which are true, but it's the embarrassment that gets me.

[–]jcob-ross 11 points12 points  (3 children)

Holy shit. And you put up with that? I'm from mid/eastern europe. Not so many crazy women here.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

its mostly based on fear of my friends getting fucked over.

[–]jcob-ross 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I would record her, consult a lawyer or two and then decide. She's got you by the balls and she knows it.

[–]rp_divorced 9 points10 points  (0 children)

She sounds like she's in the upper echelon of crazy and if you stay you only have yourself to blame. Take the hit now and get it over with. Even if you aren't guilty of anything, your employer may fire you if she keeps making the calls because they don't want to be dragged into your crap.

For others who have experienced similar threats, my ex made threats to call my employer but what you have to remember is that if she makes that call then she's biting the hand that feeds her. Most women wouldn't give up the child support and alimony that the state will force you to pay. Why give up a guaranteed paycheck that she "earned" by doing nothing more than spreading your legs for a few years.

The only power she has is your fear that she MIGHT do it. My advice is to hand her the phone the next time she makes such a threat and ask if she wants you to dial the number. Then remind her that she suffers just as much if you lose your job.

As far as threatening a friend's job, well, that's silly if there's truly nothing going on that is a fireable offense. What employer would listen to a third party's rants without seeing the crazy? The employer wouldn't risk being sued.

edit: pronouns

[–]1independentmale[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I would divorce her yesterday.

First, I'd get my life in order. If you are doing something wrong or illegal, stop it now. Play her game until all evidence of your wrongdoing has been eliminated and you're clean and good.

Then, I'd give my boss a heads up. "Hey, I'm having some family problems and am going to file for divorce. My wife has threatened to call here and make false accusations against me. I just want you to be aware of this in advance."

I would never be with a woman who made up lies about me. The first time it happened that bitch would be out on her ass.

[–]stalinbaby 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I was actually considering this kind of thing while reading OP's text, e.g., just get in bed with her? There are some crazy women who will pour boiling water over their husband's head while asleep, or just resort to other forms of physical conflict.

I'm sorry, but divorce seems to be the best option against crazy. Run from her as fast as possible. Next time, try not to get yourself attached to a crazy person. It's a no-win game.

[–]Enphuego 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You've got to talk to your boss about it. You start with the line "I'm trapped in an abusive relationship and my wife threatens to call you to report X, Y or Z if I do what I want to." Tell him that you are going to stand up to her tomorrow and he may get a phone call.

Then when she threatens you, you hand her the phone, look her dead in the eyes and say "I fucking dare you to call him."

She won't.

[–]Gencooil 5 points6 points  (14 children)

Seriously? Why do you put up with her? At this point, your current problems are 100% on you for not leaving that manipulative bitch. Leave her already! Jesus H. Christ in a chickenbasket...

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (13 children)

My fear is she will go through with EVERYTHING that she has threatened in the past.. and it would cause an unnecessary headache with me, my friends, their jobs etc... I know it's on me at this point, but she's got me in so much fear.

[–]Gencooil 4 points5 points  (12 children)

At some point, you're going to have to call her bluff. Why? Because she is going to up the ante after everytime you relent, because it's a succesful tactic and it's worked before. Perhaps you should re-read the OP's post, where he asked himself "what's the worst that could happen"? In your case, she's going to call your friends, family or boss? To tell them what? That you're a massmurderer? A pedophile? You beat up little puppies? What? If it indeed is something to be ashamed of, confess to the parties involved and next time call the manipulative bitch's bluff. Also, you might be married to a sociopath or malignant narcissist, in which case you need to dump her ass asap.

Good luck.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (11 children)

I've always chalked it up to her being bi-polar with the wrong dosage/combination of meds, and think to myself it'll blow over soon enough...

[–]rp_divorced 5 points6 points  (1 child)

If you think it will blow over then you need meds. You're making excuses.

[–]RedPillWife_June2014 0 points1 point  (0 children)

/u/hexhook 's reaction is very common in a mental health situation - it is very difficult to recognize a problem until it is a big, big problem. There is often denial that there is a problem.

I think he's done with that phase, though.

[–]Frozen_Tundra 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Utter madness. You are making excuses as already mentioned. Lawyer up and GTFO.

[–]Gencooil 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Does the fact that she's bi-polar give her the right to treat you like shit and make you feel scared? Fuck that broad. Seriously.

[–]frequentlywrong 2 points3 points  (2 children)

In other words you hamster it away. You had plenty of good advice in this thread. Take it. Record her. Tell your boss you are dating a crazy woman and she might call him.

Also do you have naked pictures/videos of her? Get them. Suggest they are going online if she does go through with her threats.

[–]RedPillWife_June2014 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also do you have naked pictures/videos of her? Get them. Suggest they are going online if she does go through with her threats.

Don't wrestle with a pig, you'll just get dirty and the pig will probably enjoy it. Doing this would most definitely NOT be holding frame.

[–]RedPillWife_June2014 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I've always chalked it up to her being bi-polar with the wrong dosage/combination of meds, and think to myself it'll blow over soon enough...

If the meds aren't right, get them right. You don't want to be fighting against the tide.

If she won't get that corrected, it's game over. You can't fight that. Telling her she's biting the hand that feeds her won't do any good if she can't physically think straight. (If her meds aren't right it's a physical chemistry problem... but you probably knew that.)

I don't think divorce is right but I don't know what the next option is if she won't get that straightened out. It will not get better on its own, without some sort of treatment.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

That was my thought.. I think if shes on the right meds, she's golden.. but it seems, (and I don't know if this is because of the illness itself) she only wants to take the ones that fuck her up. klonopin, and Seroquel.. she wont take antidepressants because it makes it 'harder for her to get off' so ... I dunno.. hopefully with some talking she'll get it straightened out.

[–]RedPillWife_June2014 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Maybe try a different anti-d, there's several out there. Of course I don't know her details and I'm not a dr... but if it's an SSRI there are options. She should definitely not be taking them willy-nilly, that will definitely make things worse. Instead of "just" depression, its becomes depression + withdrawal = double whammy... and if it's willy-nilly, then it all becomes a roller coaster. I'm sorry, it must be a tough time. Hopefully switching will help her with the negative side effects so she can get on an even keel. If it's anything like my experience, she wants to be able to have that even keel and not feel like Dr Jeckll and Mr Hyde.

[–]Gencooil 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Call the parties involved beforehand and tell them they might be receiving calls from your mentally unstable GF/wife. Apologize for any inconvenience this might cause. She now has nothing over you.

[–]colombia40 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Excellent post. I would like to further the discussion on your #1 point of your method to reaching freedom.

"Perform a realistic analysis of the consequences of each decision you make. If they are acceptable, or the odds are in your favor and you're willing to accept the risk, proceed."

This is a tough one. Often we spend way too much time waiting for the right time or when the odds are in your favor. This can cause many a man to sit in a job, relationship, or rut for too long. Sometimes you have to go through an initial rough patch were the odds are not in your favor before things pull a 180 to being greatly in your favor.

I agree you have to be realistic and look at the consequences of each decision you make.

Sometimes it just a matter of asking yourself, "what is the worst thing that will happen if I do X."

Most of the time it is not that bad at all.

We are all a lot more resilient than we believe most of the time.

[–]Idontgotnopancakemix 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I am new here and didn't really fully understand the idea of frame until this. Thanks for sharing!

[–]dontlikemyfire 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Inevitably, the texts over the course of the evening would turn from rage and threats to begging and bartering and eventually into sorrow and apologies.


I have seen this in so many situations, whether girlfriend, friend, relative, etc. Women do this any chance they get. Stake out a very extreme position and/or react emotionally and irrationally, then when she doesn't get the response she was hoping for, begin to tack back to a more moderate position, usually ending with an apology for her behavior.

The key is, like OP says, to 'hold frame' when the initial onslaught comes, and give her time to realize how irrational she is being. Keep in mind this is not a solution to prevent her from doing it, but just (in my experience) the best way to handle it.

[–]bama79rolltide 11 points12 points  (1 child)

I enjoyed your post, and I have a touch of insight.

I am a Christian. I say that because when it comes to male and female relations, I always resort to Adam and Eve.

Eve rebelled against God. Adam's dumbass followed the woman instead of God. This still occurs today. The woman took the lead, and the consequences were heavy. That still applies.

God himself says in Genesis 3:16 that her punishment is painful childbirth, and "your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you". Clearly, the church does not dare touch this verse, except for pastor Mark Driscoll, who has a hard line approach and has been highly controversial lately.

The woman in Western Culture has simply been allowed to believe that her vagina gives her entitlement and domain. I won't say that there aren't decent women out there, but they are a rare breed. Sadly, the feminists movement and hard liberalism has caused a society of a hookup culture. It sounds like fun, but in reality, it is detrimental to our spirit.

I've had many plates, and the sex is good, but not great. As men, it is not smart to commit and marry due to the consequences of alimony, child support, and all sorts of emotional and monetary pains. We suffer. Society, including other men, do not care. This is not how we are meant to live.

The power she has is the power the state allows. You have to be careful. Be smart, and be well brothers.

[–]1Dev_on 0 points1 point  (0 children)

don't need to spice it up, if you're in charge, things go your way.

everyone likes that

[–]Dreamtrain 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is why oneitis is so toxic, you essentially give the other person a grand amount of power over you, EVEN if you're in a LTR, even if she loves you, she is human, she can make mistakes, and most of all, when the ups and downs of life brings you down her hypergamy kicks in and you can't fault her for it, she's biologically predisposed to look for a better, stronger man if you're weak, what values she was taught at home will make a difference if she stays and fights with you or she "just doesn't feels it anymore" but "still loves you" and leaves.

A bit off topic but this is what makes a woman with a large count of partners (or as known over her, a cock carousel rider) undesirable for a LTR. She knows she has a choice, and she is used to it, she won't fight alongside you, she has incentives to divorce most of all at the first sign of something that'll take her effort. There even was a study about it on how they found women with low partner counts had more fulfilling marriages.

So anyways, rant off, don't get oneitis. I think sometimes as men we are predisposed to want to give everything we got to the woman we have by our side (and its worse when you aren't even dating her), so if you do have oneitis it's nothing really to be ashamed about, just pick yourself up.

[–]fauxscot 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Friend.... that's not redpill, IMO. That's entirely just being an adult. A really good, perceptive, activated adult.

Self-actualization. Vision, supported by self-knowledge, and a world manifested through personal effort, risk, and persistence. I detect less manipulation than personal empowerment. It's what is missing from most lives.

The challenge (to me, anyway) is always screening one's acts to avoid hurting other people unnecessarily. Ethical behavior demands that we consider our effect on the innocents around us, but it does NOT demand self-sacrifice. As the Navy says, "The ship comes first". Keep yourself safe, ready to be an effective force in the world, and with a clear mandate to live a happy life. As a side benefit, share your meme with others, particularly the young and troubled who are trapped in victimization patterns. Give them a positive example of a life well lived.

If women (or men, if reversed) can't find this compellingly attractive, I think they have a serious problem with life.

I applaud your conclusions and actions. Every now and then, a good antidote story emerges and this is one. I'm sorry things were hard for your old mate, but you will be better off and you will make better choices now that you found the font of wisdom.

[–]All__fun 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Wonderful Post bruv!

Just curious how old are you now?

If only you has this mindset in your youth. You would have been a BEAST!!!

[–]1independentmale[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I am in my mid thirties. Yes, I wish someone had taught me these things as a teenager. Can't even imagine how different my life would have been. This was my father's job, but unfortunately he was a good beta lapdog for my mother and still is.

It's OK. Better late than never. I still feel young and have many decades of life ahead of me to enjoy.

[–]smokingmonkey420 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Amazing post.

Coincides with a recent realization I had when it comes to making a decision. Often times, we worry about making a move because we are concerned with what others will think of us. Recently, a girl invited me out to the gym after I had already asked her out twice before. I declined, fearing that I might come off as desperate. I wanted to go, but didn't because I was afraid of what she MIGHT think.

What's the worst that could've happened? I would've gone home alone. What's the best thing that could've happened? I get to fuck her.

Our fears and doubts deceive us and hold us back. Keeping us coddled in safety.

Now, I ask myself, "What's the worst that could happen?"

[–]Rougepellet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm convinced the tradition of men sleeping on the couch because their wives are upset is a strictly western thing (maybe some parts of Europe as well). I'm African and when my parents argue, my dad never goes to sleep on the couch because that fucking bed is big enough for 2-3 people. Instead of giving your wife a diamond ring, you might as well give her your balls to wear as jewelry if you let her boss you around.

[–]useyourmouth 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Lately, I've caught myself responding to shit tests at face value, as if they are legitimate, rational questions, seeking a reasoned response in defense of my actions. This provided some much needed clarity. Greatness.

[–]candyred1 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Wow, your wife sounds like my husband. I found this sub recently and I am just blown away, most of my experiences in relationships and seeing my girlfriends going through the same thing, I always thought that men were the jerks and women were the ones taken advantage of in relationships. My husband isn't physically abusive but boy do I have to walk on eggs and get treated like a child, etc like you described. His ex was manipulating, controlling, and any little thing would set her off (still does, unfortunately they have a child together). So when our relationship started I thought wow he has gone through the same kind of terrible relationship that I have in the past. Things were great now, so I thought. Then gradually he became more and more like her. Phone calls between them usually result in her hysterical and screaming threats over like a shirt of their daughters that wasn't returned right away, and HE is the one completely rational and sane during the conversation. But with me its the opposite, I'm the one asking him to stop yelling and be rational while he has tantrums and gets close to a heart attack over the most ridiculous things. Its almost like either be abused or be the abuser. I guess my question is, do you think that is the some of the reasoning behind the way your wifes behavior?

[–]1independentmale[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I guess my question is, do you think that is the some of the reasoning behind the way your wifes behavior?

Yep. She was emotionally, physically and sexually abused by her father as a child. I was a teenager in love, a white knight who thought I could rescue her. Unfortunately, I found that when you rescue a damsel in distress, you only wind up with a distressed damsel.

These things do go both ways, so I'm not surprised to hear your story. I've seen plenty of men act like emotionally unstable women. I have a hard time with it because I find them so pathetic. At least when a woman acts up, I can see the scared little girl inside and have some empathy. When men do it, I just see a little emo bitch who can't handle his shit. I want to knock him on his ass and tell him to man the fuck up. I suppose I'm only contributing to gender stereotypes with this mindset and should work on this, but, meh... who has the time?

[–]vicious_armbar 1 point2 points  (0 children)

she'd get hysterical. She would scream and cry and demand and threaten, but what then? If I simply ignored the noises coming out of her mouth and did what I wanted to do anyway

I laughed. This is an inspiring story about strong boundaries!

[–]AgentSmith27 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Your SO should be your friend, and a person who genuinely wants to make you happy. You should genuinely want to make them happy.

If this is not the case, then the LTR is broken. If one person is trying to control, manipulate, or make the other persons life miserable, something is very very wrong. This means that at least one person doesn't give a shit if the other is happy.

I think in your case, you were walking on egg shells because you wanted your wife to be happy. Clearly, she was miserable and didn't care if you were miserable. The actions you took prevented you from being the brunt of aggression, but it probably didn't solve the underlying problems. In fact, you probably gave up on caring if she was happy (not that it wasn't justified).

This seems to be the natural course of events for an imploding relationship. Once you focus on "battle tactics" instead of figuring out why you are battling to be with, its basically over.

[–]othereal 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Good to read your experiences and advice. My wife acts like she is on TRP and so I am staring to suspect she is taking advice from one of her red pill guy friends. Is this possible? She's eastern European.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Well the beauty of TRP is that when you adopt a red pill frame, she will fall into step with it rather readily regardless of what her friends and family may say about you.

The caveat is you cant have been full blown beta for a very long time, there is a point of no return but it's really hard to reach and usually you'll find out if that point has been reached when you employ dread game tactics required to turn a relationship that's been bad for the man for a long time around.

[–]othereal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the comment. I just reread it, and it helps to put the right frame into focus.

[–]barzerobar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for sharing. This was very inspirational.

[–]binrobinro 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's a nice, common-sense approach.

[–]EvisceratedInFiction 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Commenting to save this, inspirational as hell. Never heard it laid out so logically before

[–]Planner_Hammish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Bravo. I love reading success stories like this. The examples especially of how you go about it, i.e. "give her a kiss and go", because they help me visualize how I should approach a similar situation in my own life.

[–]CockFlavour 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well written, thanks for taking the time post.

[–]DjBottleservice 0 points1 point  (0 children)

God I wish I read this years ago, but what's important is that I'm here now. Thanks for this post, it really hit home.

[–]damnmaster 0 points1 point  (1 child)

How do you answer when faced with those redirections? Does ignoring work? Or do you actually have a method to pull back into the original point?

[–]1independentmale[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You don't have to answer. You can stand there and say nothing at all, or simply walk away. If you must talk, be prepared with some canned phrases:

"I'll listen when you've calmed down." "I love you too much to argue." "I bet it feels that way." "I understand." "I hear what you are saying."

I especially like the last two. Repeated several times while she's ranting, these will calm her down, she will think she's won, then when she's done you give her a hug and repeat your intentions: "I love you. I'm going to the party now. I'll see you in a few hours."

[–]franksinatramyway 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I wish I read this 8 months ago.

[–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First wife is still pissed at me. Haven't been with her for 13 years, but she is still pissed. I did exactly that the entire time I lived with her, what and when I wanted. She had another issue going on that made living with her a nightmare, but there was no way I would allow her to dictate what I could and couldn't do. She was bipolar and would start fights just to lose them so she could feel like a victim instead of guilty about something. Took a while to figure that one out.

Being a huge car but, I would spend as much time as I wanted in my shop, building cars and having fun. Got me away from her screaming and violent behavior too, but left my kids as her only outlet. Earlier last year she said with obvious disgust that I would do whatever I wanted no matter what she said. I replied 'yep, and I still do.' If it wasn't for the divorce rape, getting rid of her would have been a high point in my life.

Never let anyone control you unless you are well paid and have the ability and opportunity to surpass their authority based upon your merits. The only people I allowed to dictate to me were those with more rank in the military. I still did shit my way, and that caused many pissed off people, until they discovered my way worked better, then they adopted my method. Good luck with treating your wife like a Captain, General, or even an NCO. It will end poorly.

[–]djvita 0 points1 point  (0 children)

how can she have more power?

for the bluepillers before an ltr its boobs/ass ie the prospect of sex.

in an LTR, the mans need for companionship and affection.

these in a nutshell are how women trap men

good post bro