all 157 comments

[–]1redpillbanana 85 points86 points  (5 children)

This is what happens when a woman attempts to negotiate herself into desiring someone based on their non-sexual qualities. You can't negotiate desire is a key rule for both men and women.

If your wife is not attracted to you, she'll find fault in every little thing you do, because she's trapped with you and social pressure is forcing her to be loyal to someone she doesn't want to have sex with. You might be the perfect husband and she'll still yell at you because you didn't wipe the spots off the crystal. I'm convinced that the majority of wives have settled and stay only because of a combination of kids and social pressure. Women who were outwardly sweet and kind will completely disrespect their husbands in public, and their husbands just sit there and take it because they'll otherwise get screwed in the divorce.

If a woman is truly attracted to you, she'll forgive almost anything and move the earth for you, no matter what your faults. Check out this Wikipedia page (which I still can't believe exists):

Vaujour had 28 years to serve for attempted murder and armed robbery; this was his fourth escape attempt. He made his way to the roof by threatening guards with a fake pistol and nectarines painted as grenades. On top of the jail he was picked up by his wife Nadine, who had taken helicopter pilot lessons especially for the escape.[5] They landed at a nearby football pitch and fled in a waiting car.[2]

[–]Bulldog44 28 points29 points  (2 children)

Vaujour had 28 years to serve for attempted murder and armed robbery; this was his fourth escape attempt. He made his way to the roof by threatening guards with a fake pistol and nectarines painted as grenades. On top of the jail he was picked up by his wife Nadine, who had taken helicopter pilot lessons especially for the escape.[5] They landed at a nearby football pitch and fled in a waiting car.[2]

Thats a dream woman right there. What I wouldn't give for a woman that would bust me outta the joint in a helicopter lol.

[–]occupythekitchen 26 points27 points  (0 children)

They probably had one of the best fucks shortly after this

[–]1redpillbanana 2 points3 points  (0 children)

...and she probably spent months learning how to fly a helicopter (a huge cost in time and money) to help him escape.

[–]5 Endorsed ContributorStayinghereforreal 107 points108 points  (10 children)

The trouble is the men that excite her will not marry/commit to her. She knows this in her reptilian hindbrain.

So what is a woman to do? Opt for beta bux, of course. The strategy is as old as time, and is playing itself out constantly.

Any guy who was the hot guy in high school remembers how many of the homely gals would hopefully present themselves as potential mates. This dynamic is ever present in culture. Even 45 year old gals still pine for the alpha stud to come over and knock one out. But they understand in their hindbrain, at some point, that is not going to happen, so they resign themselves to Hagen Daz and the portly, bald, middle-management dude willing to put up with them. They are not happy about it, but they go ahead and live that life, until it falls apart.

This will not change, folks. The only thing you can do is lift, earn, improve and try to be closer to the stud's status versus the portly, bald middle-manager dude's status.

[–]HeadingRed 58 points59 points  (7 children)

"The trouble is the men that excite her will not marry/commit to her."

The other side of that is often she won't commit to them. Women often say "I want him to want me just for myself" which means "I don't need to do anything better or special to keep him". It's the delusional thinking that she does not need to up her game to get him to commit when she already knows he has options.

Women don't need to compete like men do in their teens\20's even 30's these days. Women have a list of what they want in a guy but they don't think about what they need to do in order to keep him.

So let's say miss 20's\30's decides she wants to settle down. She may hit the gym a bit more but does little or nothing as to looking at her behavior or attitude. At the end of they day she is doing what so many women accuse men of- taking them for granted.

Women- if he is the man your your dreams his is probably the dreams of many other women as well. What are you doing to show that you are the right choice? You want a top-level guy in the looks, personality, success area- what do you bring to the table that makes you the one?

[–]1aguy01 36 points37 points  (1 child)

This is why we used to have Home Economics classes, to teach women how to be good to a man.

[–]HeadingRed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's more than that- it's how to run a house. Add value to the relationship. Raising kids, keeping the home running well is no easy task if you want to do it well. My grandmother probably spent 3-5 hours a day on the house- and that was after her kids were grown and left.

My neighbors wife stopped working after their 2nd child turned 3. She will go back to work when the youngest gets to junior in highschool. They have less income because of this but they decided to make sure their kids were taken care of rather than have a nicer car in the driveway. These are not fundie homeschool types- pretty much textbook democrats and while Christian not fundies.

Home econ gives you the tools and training to run a home- there is nothing unimportant about that. It's the hardcore feminists that are to blame for shaming the important (and proud) task of taking care of a home and family.

[–]HeadingRed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The point I was making is I know if I want to keep a quality woman I need to keep on improving myself and not take my foot off the gas so she knows she made the right choice. I am stating that women who want to keep a quality man should think about doing the same.

At the end of the day its this- do you want to spend the rest of your life with someone who throws in the towel and decides they don't need to be as good as when you met them? We all age, time marches on. I don't expect my woman to look like she did at 30 when she is 60- that's unrealistic. But I will take care of myself, better myself financially and keep on doing the best I can.

[–]the99percent1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

or marry down. If you are an 8 that 6 will always love you.

[–]2jagrmeister721 51 points52 points  (27 children)

I think the question is why a woman who has an SMV of 5 is not "attracted" to her husband who also has an SMV of 5. This was called assortive mating. It's because the erosion of traditionalism moved female relationship mentality back into her hindbrain, where primitive mate selection criteria only orients towards the top 20%. That's how hookup culture works. They're actually able to punch above their weight by offering no-strings attached sex to men of higher SMV. When it comes to LTR, they can't suddenly move their perceptions and mindset back into the cortex. Their attraction cues have been solidified. And they can never be attracted to men of equal sexual market value, because they've had much better.

Everything is relative; if we drove ferraris for ten years, a bmw would seem like nothing to value. That's why stable civilizations in the past never had anything like hookup culture. It doesn't lend itself to quality long term relationships and families.

[–]1aguy01 28 points29 points  (13 children)

That's why stable civilizations in the past never had anything like hookup culture.

Many cultures have. And they all collapsed shortly after.

[–]Bulldog44 27 points28 points  (8 children)

And interestingly enough, they collapsed because the majority of men who no longer had incentive to participate withdrew, and women were so easy that men stopped marrying and instead took advantage of the free sex. Seem familiar? It is already happening here.

[–]Daisy_DukeNukem 10 points11 points  (4 children)

Except, Are we talking about Victorian England and Ancient Rome? Because this sounds an awful lot like ancient Rome. In short, prostitutes were everywhere, and men were shamed out of sleeping with other high status men's wives, so they settled with slaves and prostitutes. The Wives eventually too slept with male slaves, and a lot of these ended up poorly. In essence, the couple stayed together entirely for political/superficial reasons, to look good when they threw a party for the other nobles. It's all super interesting stuff.

I guess my only problem is with the talk of "soon collapsed" because sexual immorality has existed and will always be pervasive in every age of society. Rome ran rampant with this, but lasted for hundreds of years even through these practices.

[–]1exit_sandman 3 points4 points  (3 children)

The problem of Rome was also that they relied to much on soldiers and mercenaries of foreign stock and that the Christians outbred them, so basically it ultimately was due to decadence. Permissive promiscuity is one indicator of decadence, but by no means the only one.

But considering how long they could feed of their initial momentum - and, in fact, built their empire even during their moral decline - the success of Rome is staggering.

[–]MrEiffel 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Well yes and no.

The Romans have always had a very liberal opinion about sex, just read about their prostitution system. They did not become "decadent" after 1 A.D.

The Roman Empire fell because it was an accidental Empire. It's entire governmental structure was based on Roman citizenship which was very sparsly distributed to conquered populations and even old allies (Sabians). As a consequence, when the empire grew larger due to conquests they were very succesful in building an administrative structure to maintain it, but since the Roman citizens became an increasingly tiny population (not because they weren't breeding lol, but it was one city compared to half of Europe), the tax base eroded and no true loyalty from new conquered populations developed towards the Empire.

[–]usul1628 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually, Carcalla, who ruled from 198-217 (not so far off from the imperial golden age which ended in 177), granted citizenship to everyone in the empire, pretty much explicitly to tax them. Even long before then, local nobility were always quickly added to the citizenry as a means of control. You mention the Sabines, they were all made citizens during the reign of Romulus. The rest of the Italians were all made citizens at the end of the Social War in 88BC. Anyways, the big failure of the Principate empire was reliance on the Senatorial and Patrician class to rule the empire and run the armies when other men were clearly more qualified and seized opprotunties by force. After the crisis of the third century and Diocletian reformed the government, the whole military and civilian beaurcracy was open to all citizens. That being said the biggest problem with what you said is that the conquered populations had no loyalty to Rome. By the fourth century AD when things started to unravel permanently, the lands the empire held (basically same land as was held around Augustus's death) had been part of the empire for between 350 and 700 years, the populations considered themselves Romans, spoke the same language as everyone else, etc. But when more barbarians than imperial citizens started living in these areas, that's when they lost their loyalty to the empire.

[–]usul1628 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There's enough Roman oratory that's been preserved that it seems like the Romans were complaining about moral decline since before they had conquered Latium, much less Italy or the Mediterranean.

[–]usul1628 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I'm dying for an actual example here. Of a civilization that collapsed after hookup culture took hold or one when men withdrew into themselves.

[–]BrunoOh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Read Sex and Culture by J.D. Unwin.

[–]switchme808 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Which previous cultures did this happen to? I'm ready to read.

[–]usul1628 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I'm pretty sure he didn't list any examples because there are none. Certainly none of the famous ones. Rome's biggest period of decadence, for instance, was a solid century and a half before it started to decline, and was still 450 years away from falling in the West.

[–]gran_helvetia 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I bet it was the hook-up culture and not a major economic and cultural crisis accompanied by multiple 'barbarian' invasions

[–]PookIsLovePookIsLife 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm also curious which cultures this happened to in the past.

[–]1exit_sandman 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think the question is why a woman who has an SMV of 5 is not "attracted" to her husband who also has an SMV of 5.

I doubt that the 5 was ever really attracted to her comparable partner. She just knew better than to give in to her desires.

[–]JayViceroy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is termed the "alpha widow."

[–]barmaleo 19 points20 points  (2 children)

There's a joke about a man who had to choose between three women to propose to - the pretty one, the generous one and the smart one. He took the one with the biggest rack.
The joke about woman picking a husband goes on for half an hour.

[–]1exit_sandman 7 points8 points  (1 child)

And ends with her ending up on the 5th floor without any of them.

[–]1KyfhoMyoba 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Schadenfreude: German chocolate cake for the soul.

[–]neveragoodtime 15 points16 points  (0 children)

It goes the other way as well: Men don't know what to look for in a wife. Half of it is being able to tell if she's sexually aroused by you or settling on you. BP men are raised to not know the difference, or not care. I honestly didn't think it mattered, that as long as I didn't cheat, a woman would never have a wondering eye or lose attraction, they are perfect little adoring commitmentbots. The other half is understanding her red pill traits, is she giving, caring, submissive, young, low partner count, wise? Men need to be making the right informed decision, because the risk is on them, and she just doesn't know any better.

[–][deleted]  (7 children)


    [–]Overkillengine 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    But the flip side of that is even if it is unintentional, it is not unreasonable to be aware of the behavior and to take precautions no matter how much people try to shame you into leaving yourself wide open for betrayal and abuse.

    [–]1exit_sandman 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Yeah, I think this is something that Redpill should understand. Most women aren't out to get you, not deliberately. They don't meet in subcommittees and plan out how to make the lives of beta men miserable.

    Exactly. Never attribute to malice what you can attribute to thoughtlessness/naivety/stupidity/whatevs.

    [–]MetacognitiveMan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Hanlon's razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

    [–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Unless you can actually prove it's malice, then they are:

    [–]truchisoft 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    No Red Pill literature says women are doing this on purpose, hell, even bonecrackr's 2004 book says that they are as much a victim as we are. He, even in his anger phase, understands that women are only doing this because we are letting them, we don't set the boundaries right.

    [–]tellhimhello 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    It's the opposite. When a girl can't leave a guy she's dating because the stigma of not being able to keep a guy, the next logical step is marriage. also, logically, there's always someone better out there for you. Feminism is not recommending girls get married or have kids out of wedlock.

    [–]theultmatecad 22 points23 points  (25 children)

    The post is solid gold but I question whether women feel any guilt about this situation you described.

    Yes. She hates feeling this way. Yes she knows she should appreciate all the things beta bucks does for her.

    I just dont think many women have it in them to feel guilt or any responsibility for this scenario that we see all too often

    [–]MetacognitiveMan 6 points7 points  (9 children)

    You may be right. If they do feel guilt then they'll provide obligation sex...just enough to cross their threshold of guilt. Oh, husband wants to do a different position than missionary? They shut it down:

    • "That hurts, stop that." Of course it hurts, you're clenching up and not turned on at all.
    • "That's too perverted." Everything not previously approved (missionary) is perverted to you.
    • "You're too close to my butt hole. I told you I don't ever want anal." I haven't ever intentionally tried anal with you, why do you always assume I'm doing it now when I'm just tired of missionary and want to do another position like doggy style. Yes, there was that one time when my dick slipped and grazed your butt hole.

    [–]BluepillProfessor 2 points3 points  (8 children)

    As Arch first pointed out to me, you can identify this type by your points and also importantly by how they immediately jump up to expel the icky Beta semen.

    Starfish is another clue.

    [–]MetacognitiveMan 1 point2 points  (6 children)

    So they're just prostituting themselves where their payment is lack of guilt.

    [–]BluepillProfessor 1 point2 points  (5 children)

    Exactly- and the real problem is that is EXACTLY how they feel being "forced" to have sex with an unattractive Beta who is not leading her and the family and who (probably even more important) is not giving her strong (positive) emotions.

    My wife confessed to me how it felt like she was being raped when we had sex during the dark times. She would look at the ceiling and wait for it to be over. "You were like a little boy who kept bugging me for his candy and it was so disgusting."

    [–][deleted]  (4 children)


      [–]BluepillProfessor 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      My wife texted that to me saying that maybe I was even more out of her league than she thought.

      Was this meant by her to be disrespectful as in - I, your wife, am way above your league or was it meant as more forlorn as in- I, your wife am way below your league.

      Either answer has a solution but they are very different.

      I don't believe your wife's sexuality is shut down and I know it can be redirected and that you can very likely redirect it towards you.

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)


        [–]BluepillProfessor 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        A wife often primarily gets her body image from her husband. This woman seems to be crying for help and reassurance. Are you giving it to her? This was an opportunity to reassure her or whatever. You can make a gigantic impact on this problem in a very short period of time with just a few words and gestures. Probably. If you reassuring your wife doesn't help, there may also be some mental illness/depression/past trauma which requires medical intervention. IMHO.

        Some of this makes no sense. Your wife thinks you are above her league in attractiveness but she also thinks that having sex with you is like Beta rape? Again, this screams medical or mental health issue. This is not a normal reaction.

        Is it possible you have over-used Dread and caused your wife to "give up?" Are you initiating every day or so and getting shot down on these facts?

        Do you use Nonsexual Kino and positive verbal banter most of the time and then: Instigate-Isolate-Sexual Kino-Escalate- Fuck.

        [–]MetacognitiveMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Good stuff. Thanks for making me think.

        [–]MetacognitiveMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Damn. You are 100% dead on accurate to my experience. Thanks.

        [–]neveragoodtime 15 points16 points  (2 children)

        Guilt over not being attracted to her caring husband makes her feel bad. Convincing herself that she's not attracted to her husband because he is bad makes her feel good. So she believes she is married to a bad husband so she can feel good about her lack of attraction to him. This is where we see wives turn on their husbands, and force the path of divorce rape. They don't file for divorce because "things just didn't work out." They file because they've convinced themselves their husband is the devil to avoid the guilt.

        [–]1exit_sandman 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        Guilt over not being attracted to her caring husband makes her feel bad. Convincing herself that she's not attracted to her husband because he is bad makes her feel good.


        It isn't female-specific - if you feel you are shackled to a woman you have no attraction for, you start resenting her too. However, women are overall apparently a lot more likely to feel they "settled", which makes it a more female than male problem.

        [–]neveragoodtime 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Hell, a female is more likely to feel shackled to a man because she's less likely to take responsibility for her choices, or understand the rational process she took in order to commit to her beta bux. A man is more likely to accept and live with his decision, as long as she doesn't turn on him and make it hell.

        [–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 11 points12 points  (1 child)

        Oh they definitely feel no guilt. Like the law of entropy, all thoughts must progress from making themselves feel bad to making themselves feel good. It's the basis for the hamster. Their internal feelings must make them feel positive, reality be damned.

        Women find ways to rationalize their feelings, any little thing will do. "He wouldn't clean up the towels in the bathroom. That's why our marriage fell apart". It's not the real reason, that being that she was never attracted to him and feels like crap for it. But it's one that makes her feel good, so to her it's reality. She can make herself genuinely believe it.

        I wrote a little about female scorn a while back. It's definitely something that our genders are at odds with.

        [–]theultmatecad 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I will check your post out. Thanks

        [–]a_nus 2 points3 points  (3 children)

        Women who are conscious of it feel guilt. The rest just feel frustrated.

        I've witnessed women openly admit their guilt and cognitive dissonance. Needless to day it was usually the less basic ones.

        [–]SubtleObserver 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        I'm curious. What is your idea of a basic women?

        [–]Overkillengine 11 points12 points  (1 child)

        I'll offer a partial checklist: Ugg boots, lucky jeans or yoga pants, selfies every day, pumpkin spice lattes and they can't even. Usually has a playlist of the same exact songs their clique has.

        [–]JayViceroy 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        A woman's loyalty is tied to her feelings and emotions. The man that does not turn her on sexually, has no power over her in the long term.

        [–]theultmatecad 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Well said. I am using this

        [–]Traz_Onmale 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Can't feel guilty when everything was done in good conscience. She believed in the lie that sexual attraction isn't important. She thought she was making a better, more rational choice by marrying BB. Then, as life sucks and would be infinitely better by being single again, can you really blame her for divorcing?

        [–]theultmatecad 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Agree. She believed the lie and became unhappy. She also never realized a lie was told!

        [–]JACKDOGBOB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        They genuinely cannot feel empathy I believe. Part of this is female nature while the other part is Disney princess culture.

        [–]DaegobahDan 22 points23 points  (7 children)

        I think the bigger issue is that marriage is no longer about raising children. It's a very recent phenomenon that marriage should be about "love". It's the main factor driving divorce. In the past, marriage infidelity on both parts was largely overlooked since you evaluated your marriage on "Is she a good mother?" and "Is he a good provider?" not "Are they fucking someone else?" Unless we swing back to that idea, marriage will continue to be a bad investment for men AND women.

        [–]LifeAtPeace 9 points10 points  (5 children)

        This is true. Marriage is longer what it used to be. A lot of things were overlooked earlier for the sake of keeping the family together (for the sake of kids). Now marriages are all about "what I can get by marrying this person". Men think of getting great sex from a hot woman (consistently) and women think of a big house, SUVs, foreign trips and lavish lifestyle. I am yet to meet a woman who wants to marry without expecting any of the above.

        [–]DaegobahDan 10 points11 points  (3 children)

        It's funny how things like that work. I am committed to a life of poverty (not that I don't make a lot, I just don't spend it and I buy solidly built but no brand name wares). In my blue pill days, I wondered why none of my relationships progressed to marriage. Now I am grateful that I cockblocked myself without even knowing how. So glad I am not married right now.

        [–]1Starswarm 2 points3 points  (2 children)

        I am committed to a life of poverty

        Please elaborate? You can't just throw that out there.

        [–]switchme808 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        He just means a frugal life I think.

        [–]DaegobahDan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I don't care for fancy things. I dislike people who are. For example, I bought my couch from Simmons (the mattress company) for $400. It is super comfy and no one knows the difference. But if you tell people that I own a $400 couch, all of the sudden I'm a cheap skate. No, you're an idiot for paying $1000 for something that you can buy that is perfectly serviceable for less than half of that price. I only buy used cars and I never repair them unless its under $1-200 bucks. I just ride them until they die and then go get a new one. I save a ton of money on the car and on insurance, since I only rock with liability. (My health insurance is great so no worries about me.) I always drive decent, workhorse cars. They aren't going to impress anyone, but they don't embarrass me either. Et cetera.

        In reference to my earlier comment, from the outside it doesn't look like I make a lot of money, probably in the $25 -$30k range. So beta bux hunters passed me over even though I was 100% exactly what they were looking for: a weak, whipped man loaded with cash. Thankfully, my habits made me so unattractive even as a beta bux chump that I avoided getting married until I finally got a clue.

        [–]rztzz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        ive met one. She dumped me for a teacher. Not some alpha teacher either but just a nice, slightly handsome middle school teacher. Funny thing is, I get it with her because she genuinely wants a simple life. Feel like I missed out on that one.

        [–]1bicepsblastingstud 8 points9 points  (0 children)

        Hell, you can have emotional intimacy with anybody. Even other men. But the only person you’re allowed to have sex with is your wife. Sex is the thing that separates your marriage from any other relationship. Not staying up watching TV.

        This is an extremely powerful line. Well done.

        [–]Glenbert 8 points9 points  (3 children)

        This all implies that the attraction wasn't really there to begin with. I don't know how common that really is. In my experience and observation, it's more likely that the attraction fades. It fades and the man knows sweet fuck-all about how to earn it back.

        [–]RedHeimdall 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        No, I think OP is right... A lot of the time the girl is not sexually attracted to the guy, even in the beginning. She's excited by the idea of becoming a "grown up," she's excited to have a lavish wedding and be the center of attention, she's excited to have the approval and praise of all her peers, she's excited at the idea of "playing house," she's excited at the idea that she won't necessarily have to be a breadwinner anymore, etc. And while she's excited about all these things, she may have relatively enthusiastic sex with the guy.

        But once the excitement of all these things fade, she's just left with the dude. Once you strip away all of the exciting things that go along with the courtship and the wedding, now comes the real test of sexual attraction. Once she's gotten the approval, the status, the attention and all that, and it's now just her and her man alone in their house, how badly does she want to fuck him? Not much, because she never really wanted to fuck him that much. She showed some enthusiasm in fucking him before because she was going to get all this other cool stuff along with it. Now that she's gotten all that other stuff, and a fuck is just a fuck, she's not interested.

        This is why we want girls who are eager to fuck us for nothing but the fuck. We want girls who view our cocks as alpha seed delivery hoses.

        [–]1exit_sandman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        This all implies that the attraction wasn't really there to begin with. I don't know how common that really is.

        Not that uncommon, I think. If a woman feels pressured to marry, she'll compromise and talk herself into feeling attracted to her guy. And it may actually work for a few years, but at some point, she'll feel unfulfilled and unhappy.

        [–]couchpotatocarl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        How many times have women rebounded for the sensitive nice guy after her unbearable alpha insensitive ex. It happens. She's not attracted to the nice guy, she just needs validation after so much previous dread.

        [–]fasterpussycatdie 13 points14 points  (3 children)

        Ever go to a wedding where they read their own vows and the woman talks about how she's marrying her best friend? Pity that poor goofy bastard, he's doomed.

        [–]ProductivityMonster 20 points21 points  (2 children)

        it's just a doesn't mean she isn't sexually attracted to the guy. Stop listening to their words anyway. The wedding is just a me, me, me show for a woman.

        [–]blue_27 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        With a dress that costs thousands of dollars, but is only worn once?

        [–]BrunoOh 7 points8 points  (0 children)

        Paid for by someone not her.

        [–]16 Endorsed ContributorGayLubeOil 18 points19 points  (2 children)

        Your giving women a lot of credit, they dont think this much. They just follow the feelz wherever they take her. M

        [–]17 Endorsed ContributorArchwinger[S] 25 points26 points  (0 children)

        True. A lot of this isn't conscious.

        She feels bad because her husband is a good guy and she doesn't desire him.

        Therefore, his actions are making her feel bad.

        If she feels bad, her husband sucks.

        Therefore it's only right that she acts in a manner that stops her sucky husband from oppressing her with all that love.

        [–]thenexttimebetter 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        I'd add that even women who were attracted to their boyfriends originally lose that attraction with marriage. Because women aren't sexually attracted to men who do things for them.

        So, you can start out having lots of sex, and even "slow down" to regular sex a few days per week.

        But once the knot is tied, she respects u less because you're no longer a solo man with his own priorities. Instead, your priorities are her priorities. And she does want to have sex with herself.

        This is why, if u choose marriage, u must maintain your own life, and your own interests. You must lead in the relationship. Yes, it's important to be a good man, but it's even more important to first be a MAN. If not, your woman will not be attracted to u. Endgame will be an affair.

        [–]NoMoreFucksWereGiven 22 points23 points  (6 children)

        As a female (I realize that makes me unwelcome here) who reads this subreddit with some regularity, I wanted to add that I agree with this post almost entirely.

        Both in long term relationships and more casual sexual relationships, I often have to choose whether to be with the man who thrills me sexually but does not value me, or to be with the man who loves and cares for me but wouldn't know how to dominate me in the bedroom even if I wrote him an illustrated instruction manual. For most women, settling for one or the other is the only option.

        As another commenter mentioned, it is the job of the female to make herself a good catch for her "dream man," because he will likely be the dream man of other women as well. This is only half of the point.

        But as men reading this post, and this subreddit in general, it might also be important for you to know that females in general want a man who can walk a steady line between dominating her and blowing her mind in the bedroom with your superior power, and knowing when to treat her as a partner in an an actual relationship. That is how YOU, in turn, make yourself appealing.

        Redpill theory works amazingly well for one night stands, because women DO (in general) want this in the bedroom. If that's your goal, then go for it. But if you want women to swoon and drop their panties for you while respecting you and maybe even loving you in a relationship context, then Redpill is only half the story. I only mention this because some men here seem to want more than just one-nights, and I thought a key piece of the discussion was missing for those guys.

        [–]NimbleStorm 8 points9 points  (0 children)

        From personal observations as well as some FR, it's been suggested to find that right balance between AF/BB, to sustain attraction in an LTR.

        Thank you for reenforcing the duality that is female attraction.

        [–]Holden_Frame 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        It's actually pretty common to distinguish between "plate" game and LTR game.

        Discussions on LTR game almost always acknowledge the importance of the alpha/beta balance along with the whole "first mate" dynamic.

        Admittedly, it's far more likely to see comments from anger-stagers which aren't of much practical use.

        [–]1exit_sandman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        But as men reading this post, and this subreddit in general, it might also be important for you to know that females in general want a man who can walk a steady line between dominating her and blowing her mind in the bedroom with your superior power, and knowing when to treat her as a partner in an an actual relationship. That is how YOU, in turn, make yourself appealing.

        The problem with the dating advice that gets thrown at us by the truckload is that men are usually only told to do the latter, and tune down the former as much as possible. The whole "well... men should be forceful and dominant and charge-taking as well and this doesn't automatically make them sexist misogynist patriarch oppressors" is a rather recent phenomenon which if you ask me is strongly tied to the surplus output of men who had none of this.

        [–]RAGING_ERECTION 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        This is called satisfying both sides of a woman's dualistic sexual strategy - AF and BB at the same time.

        It is a key component for any LTR outside of a hookup and getting the balance just right is very difficult but it can be done.

        [–]anon_inOC -1 points0 points  (0 children)

        Have an upvote for username and comment

        [–]sealteamaus -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

        you have trained your hamster well

        [–]LifeAtPeace 7 points8 points  (2 children)

        Attraction is not magic. It’s not some random spark you either feel or don’t. Attraction can be generated. You can make women want to fuck you.

        This is exactly why marriage is a bad idea. Attraction is lost or attraction is generated. Women can lose attraction for husbands after a few years in marriage and they can fuck other guys that attract them. To keep a woman attracted to you for life time is impossible. At some point in life (may be 10 years, 15 years or 20 years after marriage), attraction is lost and all that husbands get is duty sex.

        After having said that, if anyone still wants to get married, it is better to be prepared to be cheated on and still be ready to be the BB for the wife. Because in the current judicial system, divorcing a cheating wife is a bad deal for men.

        Life time monogamy is a myth.

        [–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Attraction is not negotiable. Never has a woman decided later she was attracted to me but wasn't earlier; nor have I ever looked at a woman and decided this time she's attractive but last time she wasn't.

        I decide immediately, the woman decides immediately and it's settled in seconds without a word spoken.

        [–]redpillmofo 8 points9 points  (5 children)

        That an intellectual and emotional connection is key.

        Isn't it though, for a relationship? Is it even possible to build a relationship purely on sex? What women (people in general) look for in a relationship is not the same thing they look for when they just want to fuck, we all know that. It's not that they marry beta guys because society tells them to, they marry beta guys because those are the guys to marry. What kind of woman would marry a dude she wants to fuck, but who is unreliable, doesn't call her back, doesn't give her money, doesn't talk sweet to her, doesn't give her emotional support, etc. Women innately know that's a bad guy to marry.

        The problem is that modern (western) women are so emotionally immature that they don't realize that what they desire is not the same thing as what they need. For example I would love to eat a whole cake right now, but I don't do it because I have self control. I know that what I want is not the same thing as what I need. A lot of women can't seem to make that distinction anymore. So they're walking around in life, they have a perfect husband who gives her everything she wants, he does the dishes, he irons the clothes, he walks the dog and he feeds the kids, and yet there she is, UNHAAAAAPPPPYY. And then she fucks the first sleazebag who gives her tingles just because she wants to. No self control, no self reflection, no pride, no sense of decency. Just a big grown up teenager.

        [–]16 Endorsed Contributorzyk0s 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        The feminization of men is a big part of the picture, technological progress is another. Half a century ago, the average man was still masculine, therefore sexy, and able to provide in some capacity. You could build a relationship based on sex (and provision) because people fucked early, had kids, then the man spent 12 hours at work while the woman would be equally busy at home. They would really only interact with each other at the dinner table and in bed. If he made enough money and she could cook, the former was pleasant, and if they were matched in SMV, so was the latter. And very importantly, this situation was seen as unchangeable, so everybody involved had to try to make the best out of it.

        [–]LifeAtPeace 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        No self control, no self reflection, no pride, no sense of decency. Just a big grown up teenager.

        Very true. This is not the problem with just western women but with all the women these days. A couple of years ago, I was still reluctant to believe that AWALT. I trusted two girls I work with and thought of them to be different. But a year after knowing them I could see that they are all the same.

        [–]couchpotatocarl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        The only time women are different is when they are guided by strong men (great father/husband). You want to find a respectable woman, observe her male relatives.

        [–]1exit_sandman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Isn't it though, for a relationship? Is it even possible to build a relationship purely on sex?

        Sex isn't everything, but without sex, everything is nothing.

        [–]Araneuscosmicus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Is it even possible to build a relationship purely on sex?

        Just to state: I started going out with my ex-girlfriend of 8 years when we were 16. We had sex literally every one-three days for those entire 8 years, as well as me being her first, purely because I made it part of my arrangement in the deal (subtly, there were no contracts, I just fucked that behaviour into her)(Not out of disrespect, she was a fucking great woman, it just happened the way it did). She would even often complain that all I thought about was sex, then she'd keep doing it anyway. Every single time, without fail, she would make it to orgasm and at least 70% of the time she enjoyed it when we fucked. The relationship started on nothing but sexual attraction, with her picking up my hobbies as time went on and building rapport with me in order to keep me. We lived together and everything, no kids, but no marriage either. She finally decided she wasn't happy anymore when I turned my eyes to another woman who did certain things better and we broke up. That and her miserable/lonely 'best-friend' convinced her it wasn't normal behaviour. Likely through jealousy. Funny thing is, she's now a massive camwhore, cosplaying for the gratification (though I'm sue she'll say its because her new boyfriend does it and it 'makes her feel good')(yes, he dresses like a clown for a living). Likely because I stopped wanting her in any valuable way because she could be a right cunt at times. [ - Taken from public profile, not personal. Her being like that is all new to me. Though Instagram was slowly corrupting her mentally while I was with her.]

        So yes, I firmly believe that, if you're good enough at what you do and you set the precedent early enough, you can build an entire relationship on sex and the rest will follow. Especially if she deems you worth the time and effort. How you frame the start of the relationship will be how it progresses in the long term.

        [–]eeebooboo 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        wow that's actually really true I did this in a relationship and it ends hellishly ,I'm a female by the way

        [–]1aguy01 6 points7 points  (2 children)

        Nah, when women put this emphasis on sex they end up riding the CC, because hypergamy. Society needs to encourage women to commit to good providers, because that's the only way those guys will get pussy. If they don't get pussy they aren't as motivated and productive.

        [–]Bulldog44 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        Which causes them to stop participating altogether, which puts even more of the burden of providing for women and their spawn on the government, which eventually runs out of money. It has happened before and it is happening again right here in the west.

        [–]AUAUA 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        That's why i am interested in Bitcoin. Society is changing fast and collapse seems possible. Bitcoin is essentially the red pill for money, finance, banking and remittances.

        [–]Endorsed ContributorAerobus 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        This is an excellent post. The only problem is many women will read this, and only a few will open their minds to accept it and use the knowledge to not mess up their lives.

        EDIT: I highly urge you to crosspost this to RPW.

        [–]2 MRedPillWatchTower 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        I highly urge you to crosspost this to RPW.

        Already did it for him.

        [–]almualim1 2 points3 points  (2 children)

        Damn, this really hit home for me. I'm currently in a LTR and I basically married my high school sweetheart. I am the only person she's been with and vice versa. But it does currently feel like she's not attracted to me, even though she is affectionate towards me. The sex life is bad at this point and I've been following TRP for a few months and trying to establish my Frame. Any recommendations on what someone can do to get out of this state or a series of steps to fix this? I've gone through most of the required reading but wondering if there's any set of readings specific for people trying to bring a change in their LTRs.

        [–]couchpotatocarl 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Dread. People who are closest to you will resist any change you try to make for yourself. Similar environments/people make it more difficult for a person to change. You need to disconnect from your current environment/people and reconnect after you've changed yourself.

        You two have a routine. You disrupt that routine she will force you back into it. Unless you disconnect while you upend your routine, learn, and grow.

        [–]rpodhod 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        The greatest danger of "bluepill* courtship" is that you succeed and get a woman you are not supposed to. Flowers, poems and validation help you get into LTR. Instead of using those bard’s tricks to fuck a random starved wife and never see her again, as intended.

        *for lack of a better term

        [–]JACKDOGBOB 8 points9 points  (4 children)

        Dont go so easy on them. They dont know what they want or are supposed to want. Not every man can be the equivalent of Channing Tatum. Honestly I think alot of the aformentioned marital problems are much less common when the wife is a virgin.

        [–]brotherjustincrowe 12 points13 points  (3 children)

        One who hasn't been ruined by Twatlight and 50 Shades Of Shit, no less. Good luck with that. You may as well hold out for a woman with telekinesis.

        [–]JACKDOGBOB 7 points8 points  (2 children)

        Oh believe me I understand what Im up against. Im prepared to not marry if she doesnt come along. However, when it comes to marriage I wont negotiate. No hymen, no diamond.

        [–]sociosexualstatus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Bro I'm totally with you on that one, amen.

        [–]1aguy01 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

        It's the only sensible road.

        [–]john-b 4 points5 points  (2 children)

        "This is part of the reason why society has worked so hard to normalize divorce and glorify women who do it." I'd say it was more intentionally done to break up the family unit. Broken families equal broken men, and broken men do not resist tyranny. They obey it.

        [–]watersign 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        THIS. it's part of the NWO. Think of all the young boys out there who are raised by single moms. These kids aren't going to revolt against the system that is fucking them. They're going to revolt if their smart phone apps stop working.

        [–]1KyfhoMyoba 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Google the phrase: How to create a nigger slave, and read the first entry.

        Blow. Your. Mind.

        [–]edwardhwhite 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        They'll have some chemistry with these guys. But not more than with guys they have a strong attraction to.

        [–]13409852034 1 point2 points  (5 children)

        Solid post, thank you.

        There's a few good books that explore this as well. Women's Infidelity I and II go into this sort of stuff in depth. I found them insightful. They explore why a woman cheats, and why a woman's attraction has been "mislead". The website looks "commercial" but the books, particularly the first one, is pretty eye-opening.

        Also, regarding the idea about a woman having a relationship with the wrong man - by mistake - an article in Scientific American explores how the pill can actually physiologically mislead a woman into choosing the wrong man.

        [–]17 Endorsed ContributorArchwinger[S] 4 points5 points  (4 children)

        Thirty nine dollars for a pdf? That woman is very proud of her writing.

        [–]13409852034 2 points3 points  (2 children)

        I don't mind supporting someone with fresh ideas.

        Also, it's actually less expensive than the majority of non-Kindle indie self-published writers (i.e., blog to audience building to book).

        For example this guy is a well-known example of someone who sells e-books for over $100, and hundreds of people are happy to buy it.

        Most of these guys have cornered the market on niche topics for a captive audience. They blog regularly for a few years, build a huge audience, then release a book. 10% of blog readers buy them and the writers do well.

        I think a lot of Red Pill writers could do the same!

        [–]BluepillProfessor 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        I wish I had thought of that. Nah, I am going for the broader audience. $4.99 on Kindle I am thinking.

        [–]denmaur 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Another awesome, eye-opening post.

        [–]love2fap 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        should be titled: number one mistake of married men marrying worthless women.

        [–]colombianguy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        It's an easy mistake to make, though, especially when one is in love. And that is what many have been taught to believe by movies and novels and whatnot--that all you need is love. Well, what happens when that love and attraction wanes?

        Someone wiser and older than I once told me that a man should never commit to marriage while he was under the spell of love. He went on to add something more controversial: any woman that a man is considering marrying, if he could not walk away from her in that moment then his mind was not yet clear enough to make that big of a decision.

        And he is right. What sane and rational man would make a decision of such magnitude while intoxicated or high, which being in love is?

        [–]BrunoOh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        It's another reason I am glad to be a man. Women are only sexually attracted to a minority of men. We do not have such a curse.

        [–]Chrysoscelis 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        This post is so completely legitimate.

        [–]VimesV 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        This is one of the best posts I've seen on here in a while. Thank you for taking the time to think and write this out so thoroughly.

        [–]Boss-1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        This hit home for me a bit, cause I feel this is how my 9 year relationship devolved. I'm not making this mistake again. In a new relationship right now with a good woman, but i'm not letting it drag out like it did before. If it seems to be heading to the crapper, she can go then.

        [–]CastratedBetaOrbiter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Half my asian and indian friends have wives who have flat out admitted to their husband or their girlfriends that they married their husband for financial security and stability.

        A few even told him (or me) that they don't find their husband attractive, but they know that other women won't find them attractive either, so she doesn't need to worry about him leaving for other options.

        I'm sure that means they're free to look around while he's being beta bux.

        [–]niceguy_gone_cad 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        There aren't enough attractive guys for all women Nowadays less than ever.

        [–]Zachar1a 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Supposedly it was a letter written by a woman, but the author was really a man.

        [–]robocopsboner 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I'm going to read this later, but just going by the title, it's your fault if you marry a chick that isn't attracted to you. You can tell this shit easy. A girl can't fake that shit forever, so unless you have a shotgun wedding (again, your own fault) any guy who isn't a complete asshole should know when she's not in to him.

        [–]marriedalpha -1 points0 points  (0 children)

        Seems like for some of them they, self destruct instead of opt for the alpha tingles.

        Doubling down on the hagen dazs and bible studies until they are so past the point of redemption that no respectable alpha would bang her let alone open a door for her.

        I think THIS is the most common outcome in American Marriages where both parties are miserable.

        I see it all the time.

        [–]VanityKing -1 points0 points  (0 children)

        I usually agree with most of what is written on TRP, but I somehow disagree with this article. The rationale behind being married in the first place for a woman is not that they want to be fucked by an Alpha stud for the rest of their life, but for the prospects of financial security and having a life-partner to pass on genetics with and raise a family. Sex honestly doesn't seem like an absolute necessity in a marriage, just the idea of having someone that will support you no matter what and will always be there to listen and love you is reason enough to consider marriage. The problem with marriage these days is that society looks down on those who don't marry as social pariahs that nobody wants to be with. Marriage honestly just isn't the right choice for many( if not most) people, and as long as we continues to treat marriage as a goal or accomplishment we will continue to have domestic abuse, cheating, and divorce rape.

        The answer is very simple people; stop getting married just because it is what society expects of you. You can be perfectly happy in life with a partner that loves you without signing away half of your assets in a state-mandated contract. And if you feel that the person you're with is someone you trust and love more than yourself (AND ARE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN THEY FEEL THE SAME) then by all means, put a ring on it. Just remember, "Til death do us part" not "Til I get bored of you and leave you for someone better".