all 105 comments

[–]rubronegro 53 points54 points  (1 child)

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

This is inspiring.

Currently going through the same thing with my ex. She's the most vindictive creature I've ever known. She is the reason I sought counsel and swallowed the red pill.

We were never married (thankfully), and now she is on a war path to drive more gray hairs out of my scalp.

Before I read this, I had already been saving every exchange regarding our child. Screenshot text messages where she contradicted herself, was verbally abusive or both; emails have been saved as well.

I even created an online calendar to document the daily care of our child (the same daily care that I am financing 100% of the time). I know it will be a long, strenuous battle. This post just made it crystal clear that I should continue my path of fighting for my child's best interests with righteous intent.

Have an upvote.

[–]plumbobber 6 points7 points  (0 children)

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

It's amazing how almost 100% of women use these same tactics. They then chalk the evil up to "don't mess with Mama bear".

[–]ImBloodyAnnoyed 35 points36 points  (0 children)

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Lawyer here. Non-family attorney.

Accept the fact that you are at the mercy of a judge.

Yes. Unless you have ungodly good lawyers who can make the record for a successful appeal (unlikely and ruinously expensive), it's mostly true.

Document everything. I mean EVERYTHING.

A million times this. Not just in family court, EVERYWHERE, EVERYTHING that might turn into a legal issue. Hell, documenting stuff can avoid a legal battle. In civil court, documentation is 9/10th of the law. Write down everything, make notes, date them, email them to yourself. It's massively important.

take a long view of things. It will be a long process, likely much longer than you anticipate.

Yes. It fucking takes forever.

FYI, I'm not defending the system, it's broken on many levels. I defend my clients.

[–]skinisblackmetallic 112 points113 points  (14 children)

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

It took ...... tens of thousands of dollars...etc.

Congrats on beating the system.

Everything OP says is great advice. I just wanted to add that if you don't have the financial requirement, you need to be very realistic about your plan. You can't win if you can't make the lawyers richer. It's a sad reality.

[–]long-lostfriend[S] 80 points81 points  (0 children)

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I'd also recommend father's rights organizations. They can refer you to lawyers who may offer you a discount or charge you on a sliding scale.

[–]the_monk_of_tomorrow 22 points23 points  (8 children)

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I agree. I actually had my trial this past monday. My crazy-ex showed her true colors in front of the judge and saw that she was indeed crazy. Documentation is key here. That and showing the best interests of the kids. Also being proactive in requests are important.

I find myself nodding my head in agreement with 100% of everything mentioned.

source: had custody trial this past Monday. The same path applied.

[–]skinisblackmetallic 10 points11 points  (4 children)

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Even if you dont have the bucks, your strategy basically still applies in a longer game. Have yr shit tight, document like memento and wait. The bitch WILL fuck up. Consistent logic wins in the end.

[–][deleted]  (3 children)

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

[deleted]

    [–]skinisblackmetallic 13 points14 points  (2 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    I can never remember how that movie goes.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    It's impossible to know how that movie goes, it's like ADD put to film.

    [–]SgtBrutalisk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    There are two narratives, one in black&white, the other in color, they converge in the scene where the Polaroid photo develops.

    The protagonist gets amnesia from a home invasion, accidentally kills his own wife with excess insulin shots, spends the rest of the movie trying to avenge her death because he has no other reason to live. There is a lot of backstory on the official site, turn your volume down a bit before visiting.

    [–]throwaway-o 5 points6 points  (2 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    My crazy-ex showed her true colors in front of the judge and saw that she was indeed crazy.

    Mind sharing what transpired?

    [–]the_monk_of_tomorrow 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    No problem..

    My ex had been trying to get primary custody of my kids since we divorced (2 year ago). The judge gave me primary custody because we had proven she had been an unfit mother and I had a more stable home to allow the kids to grow up in.

    During trial, we obviously had our witnesses up. She had one of her friends testify that I was lying about different scenarios and I had mistreated my kids..etc. She was called up to testify. Not only did she keep interrupting the judge and everyone who was testifying at the time, the judge was definitely tired of her interrupting the process. No problem.

    I had a letter written by her that she had submitted to our mediator (a year prior). My attorney gave her the letter and told her to read it in front of the court. When she saw what it was, you could see her heart sink. She started crying when she started reading. The sentence started out with, "I know I have not been in the right and 'the_monk_of_tomorrow' has been the perfect father. I also have been the perfect mother but since I have been in a mental hospital countless times. This does not make me a bad person."... The letter was a collection of ramblings she had put on paper thinking it would excuse her from her actions during our time with a mediator. I had submitted my own report listing out in detail all the things she had done to abuse me and our kids. Knowing full well she was full of shit and her own documented showed how much shit was flowing from her testimony, she had no ground to stand on.

    The story goes on and on and I can write a whole post on this but it's not necessary. My point is, just stick to your guns. Do what's right in the interest of the kids. Follow court orders to the letter and you will come out on top. Any crazy bitches that try to intervene will fall flat on their asses.

    [–]throwaway-o 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    Wow. Amazing story. Thanks for sharing.

    [–]down_with_whomever 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    I want to add that " get everything in writing " is good advice not just for this situation but so many situations where rules are involved. Unfortunately that is the world we live in.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    Thats not beating the system, its just loosing a little less. The only winning move is not to play.

    [–]milly_nz 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    Don't be a thicko. He didn't beat the system, he just used it. Trying to make this some sort of heroic journey is offensive. And fuck up for beating up on lawyers. Everyone had choice to represent themselves, or obtain whatever legal advice they like. If you wouldn't talk shit about doctors fees after they'd saved your life, then don't be an illogical lawyer-blamer.

    [–]skinisblackmetallic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    It is what it is.

    [–]itstrueimwhite 27 points28 points  (4 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    I'd like to add to set a Google alert to your own name as well as your child's. When I set one to my daughter's name, I got an alert that lead me to this site called CafeMom. It's a complete shit fest where the women talk shit the guy. It seems she used this site anonymously to vent when we would have disagreements or situations would arise.

    It was fucking great because on the site she would say that I had said or told her something, and I would also have the email conversation she was referencing and it would be a complete lie. I sat on that site for about 5 months before it got brought up in court, and you should have seen her face. Priceless.

    [–]redditor157 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    This is one of the greatest comments i've ever read.

    [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    Google alert? So it looks for your name being posted online somewhere?

    [–]itstrueimwhite 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    Yes if any new items become available in Google's search directory for the criteria that you post, it will send you an email letting you know.

    [–]rubronegro 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    You just won the internet, my friend.

    [–]itwasntme19 18 points19 points  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    yeah, don't get married. that's how you win

    [–]Opioidus 14 points15 points  (7 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    Congratulations, will you get child support from her?

    [–]long-lostfriend[S] 27 points28 points  (4 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    If I end up getting primary custody. It's pretty standard in my state and would be garnished from her wages as it currently is from mine.

    [–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    I finally started receiving cs after 14 years. Sweet justice.

    [–]Marc_Vesper 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    that's fair if she's that bad

    [–]qualia00 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    Even if she wasn't "that bad", whatever that means, he should be getting child support.

    [–]Marc_Vesper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    yup.

    [–]bonekeeper 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    Ohhh no he didn't! He did!

    [–]Marijuana_was_taken 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    Like in war, once you conqueror something, you move on to the next.

    [–]TheCastle 14 points15 points  (6 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    I went through a terrible divorce and I didn't even have kids to deal with. All I wanted to do was escape from a terrible and abusive relationship. Holy shit she went for everything I had. She wanted me to have to pay her 200 bucks a week for 2 years, give her large a check to make up for the fact I needed to buy a car during the divorce. She was fake crying to gain leverage during a super awkward meeting where people were deciding what to do with MY money. She got people angry at me and tried multiple times to get people to threaten me. She tried desperately to destroy my reputation among people I met regularly in various social circles. White knighting was a massive fucking problem I kid you not. All I wanted was to escape her bullshit and I had to deal with HELL for it.

    It Was The Worst Fucking Experience In My Life

    There is only one time marriage should ever be a consideration. Its when you and your not crazy girlfriend decide TOGETHER that you want to have kids and begin to plan it out. Otherwise NEVER FUCKING DO IT.

    edit: On a side note, had I been paying attention to this subreddit so many years ago it would likely have saved me from this situation. Even though I don't agree with everything that is said here the fact that a man can and will be abused by a terrible girlfriend is a VERY fucking real thing. Men, especially monetarily successful betas need to fucking know. Avoid this situation entirely so you never need to bother with this advice at all and live a much happier life.

    [–]3 Endorsed ContributorSkorchZang 8 points9 points  (3 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    Think it was Heartiste from the sidebar who writes that there are only two kinds of women: fucking crazy and not yet fucking crazy.

    [–]TheCastle 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    I think in my case I ended up just being a beta who won the shit sandwich lottery. My ex is likely reading this stuff and its been years.

    [–]slagathor3 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    That is like what my boss tells me.

    "There are only two kinds of women. Those who are medicated and those who should be."

    [–]3 Endorsed ContributorSkorchZang 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    That stuff looks so haw-haw and misogynistic, until you start getting just how deep the folklore insight here is.

    Women are constantly changing as they navigate their journey from virgin, to maid, to mother, to old hag. Whatever she is now, she'll be a different person in a few years time, often unrecognizable.

    Doesn't mean they're not worthy of love at any of those stages, but sadly the crazy only increases with age, never the other way around.

    [–]16 Endorsed Contributorss_camaro 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    There is only one time marriage should ever be a consideration. Its when you and your not crazy girlfriend decide TOGETHER that you want to have kids and begin to plan it out. Otherwise NEVER FUCKING DO IT

    FIFY

    [–]TheCastle 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    If your goal is to literally start a family and its your primary reason for the relationship marriage does make sense. For ALL other cases it makes zero sense to do.

    [–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (2 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    What convince you to marry and have kids with a crazy woman?

    [–]long-lostfriend[S] 54 points55 points  (1 child)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    Blue pill "Nice Guy"-ness.

    I am over it.

    [–]theozoph 18 points19 points  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    Important life lesson here.

    [–]grimby4444 9 points10 points  (2 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    What was her childhood like? What was her attachment style during your relationship?

    [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    Would like to know as well for preventative measures in my endeavours

    [–]long-lostfriend[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    Standard BPD. Pushed the relationship hard. I went along out of thirstiness.

    Learn from my mistake.

    [–]still_very_alive 23 points24 points  (7 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    Congrats. Though title was a bit misleading; I was expecting to hear that you actually got primary custody already. Then again, I suppose it's still too much to expect. Sucks that you had to go through so much bullshit.

    Edit: Weren't you the guy who black-knighted that high school girl after she hit you or something?

    [–]long-lostfriend[S] 39 points40 points  (6 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    Well, I did win far more than I initially set out for. I didn't move for primary custody until after all of the false police reports and alienation bullshit started. Basically, the judge ordered us both to counseling on how to co-parent (the first time she has actually been ordered to do anything like that, and something I have been asking for from the very beginning). She is reserving final judgment regarding residency of the kids for a couple of months to see how well the ex and I can work things out on our own.

    My attorney was even surprised at how completely things turned out in my favor. He went from considering primary custody as a longshot to telling me that I should consider the possibility of housing arrangements to accommodate them permanently.

    And, yes, I am the one who went after the girl who flipped out and her lying mother. The shit with my ex was a primary reason why I wasn't going to let a teenager come to the conclusion that false accusations and bad behavior have no consequences for women.

    [–]Glenbert 9 points10 points  (3 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    Can you elaborate on that last point? I really can't figure out what it means.

    [–]Spartacus321 25 points26 points  (1 child)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    There's a post called "getting ready to black-knight a high school girl". I think it was one of the top posts of all time. He wrote it.

    [–]The-Pussy-Whisperer 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    Have you shared the story of the downfall of marriage-lostfriend? I'd love to hear it (research purposes).

    [–]long-lostfriend[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    With out revealing too much identifying info, there was a lot of sabotage on both sides. I have owned up to mine. She likely never will own up to hers.

    In many respects I wasn't a great husband, but I never have been a slouch as a father.

    [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (1 child)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    Never getting married, never getting married, never getting married

    [–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    I'm getting married, but transplanting myself in another culture. Fuck my society that have benefited from The industrial revolution and have allowed themselves to stagnate their women into disgusting .....

    Yep.

    [–]throwaway-o 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    A lot of judges have varying degrees of the "God complex"

    All of them. Otherwise they would have become tradesmen, doctors, engineers, carpenters, et cetera. Due to various reasons, they crave the power that their stupid muumuu confers to them, just to feel normal.

    Think of their life choices as fueled by a addiction stronger than cocaine... except far more destructive to everyone around them.

    [–]Mouthpiece 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    This is really excellent advice on how to handle the court system. OP kept his eye on the long game, kept solid frame, and was willing to suffer short-term setbacks as the price of winning the ultimate battle.

    Family law cases—divorce, custody, alimony—often turn into disaster because the parties let their emotions push them off the rails. Understandably, because it's an emotional process. But those that survive are the ones who keep a level head and controls their emotions instead of the other way around.

    [–]texasusa 3 points4 points  (2 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    It is really a disgrace that the legal system is geared towards paying 10's of thousands of dollars to stand a chance in court. There are too many attorneys for clients and they all charge outrageous amounts of money. I had one attorney quote me $ 300 a hour ( equals $ 600K per year ) and that guy was sitting in a run down strip center.

    [–]long-lostfriend[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    It's a fucking racket, but she had to fork over just as much, if not more before all was said and done.

    I would have rather worked out a compromise with her and saved all of this time and money, but she wouldn't have any of that at any stage of the process. She honestly believed that the court system was her unquestioning ally and that she would get her way no matter what. The reality is that when she filed for divorce, she brought in this third party (the state) that both of us have to answer to.

    I will be paying down my debt to my attorney for quite some time, but it will be money very well spent.

    [–]texasusa 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    No doubt. My friendly divorce cost $ 8k because my wife insisted that attorneys get involved. My pre attorney offer was the same after the attorneys got involved but I am $8k poorer. I received custody of my kids because thankfully she was having a affair and could not be bothered with parenting. I think family law attorneys only have one goal in mind - racking up $$ fees.

    [–]riyuugonepro 4 points5 points  (2 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    Holy shit if you win this one, it's going to be the sweetest win when you'll see her dumb face in the rear mirror with your kids in the back. Hahahah

    And also, lucky kids to have a responsible father. Luckily the mom won't resent you too much and they will be able to enjoy their mother as well.

    [–]long-lostfriend[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    The mother already resents me. There is nothing that's going to change that.

    The thing is, unlike her, I am not trying to cut the kids out of the other parent's life. I may find her to be pretty worthless, but she is still their mother. I'm not doing it out of revenge toward her; I am doing it for them.

    [–]riyuugonepro 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    I got that. Just stating that in the best of world both mom and dad are necessary, but now if one of them is crazy, it's best to cut contact as to not damage the kids.

    They might have a crazy mom, but at least their father won't let them down, and I'm sure they will be eternally grateful for that.

    [–]culofiesta 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    Number 4 is the best advice. If you have a crazy ex, just stay out of the way and let her fuck herself up. It will happen.

    Besides that, are you sure you want to post this if the case isn't finished yet? Don't endanger your chances.

    [–]long-lostfriend[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    That is why I am being as vague as I am, along with using an anonymous account. I want to help out my fellow men who are in a similar situation without screwing myself over.

    [–]jethreezy 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    I recommend every man living in America to watch Divorce Corp.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorVZPurp 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    For everyone else:

    Don't get married.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 7 points8 points  (5 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    I think #3 and #4 were the key points in your victory.

    Especially #4. You have to make sure you give her enough rope so she can hang herself with it in the court room.

    AWALT... the crazy bitch ex is a trope because it happens so much in reality. Remember the opposite of love is not hate but indifference/apathy. Women will do craycray shit and you can record it all and play it in the courtroom especially if you are in a one party state (IE. only one person needs to know about the recording of a conversation). Having solid and hard evidence that proves she's full of shit is worth it's weight in gold.

    [–]long-lostfriend[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    Yes, and the trick on your end is to keep everything businesslike and maintain that frame, thereby keeping yourself from giving her ammo for court.

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    [deleted]

      [–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

      Yeah... No offense but finding out the fiance/hubby is a registered pedophile basically made your case a slam dunk. No judge is going to place a child with a woman who is involved with a pedo, just because the risk involved to their reputation and/or the child in question.

      I find it ironic that a woman can be batshit crazy and get full custody of the kids but marry a pedo and she could be a fucking saint and they'll give the kid to the father.

      [–]Traz_Onmale 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

      AWALT... the crazy bitch ex is a trope because it happens so much in reality.

      It's one of the downsides of female hypergamy / male hypogamy.

      [–]Superdundop 2 points3 points  (3 children)

      sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

      Thanks a lot for the story, it's personally given me hope. One question though, how did you settle on a lawyer. I've been trying to find a good one for months and frankly there really isn't any reliable resources that seem trustworthy on the quality of lawyer.

      Congrats again.

      [–]long-lostfriend[S] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

      sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

      Google "fathers rights organizations." See if there is one in your area that can point you in the right direction.

      One other suggestion: find a lawyer who will be straight with you and tell you what you need to do outside the courtroom to improve your case. Knowing my ex like I do, she likely chose lawyers who were telling her that she was doing everything right and who were more than happy to rack up the hours at her expense. A good attorney will be realistic with you and tell you to stop doing the things that might fuck up your case.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

      [deleted]

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

        I like that lawyer, she's vicious!

        [–]Hateblade 2 points3 points  (2 children)

        sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

        Thanks man, I'm going through this very thing and I can concur from what I've been through so far. I've made some mistakes that I regret, but the things you mentioned, coupled with good ole RP values can go a long way to saving your family, your freedom and your sanity.

        Thanks.

        [–]long-lostfriend[S] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

        sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

        Yeah, in the initial divorce I did things the wrong way, and she came off like the helpless victim. As a result, I have been divorced for four years and only now is the injustice being rectified.

        One other mistake I made early on was to try and pull punches with her, refraining from using all of the evidence I could have used for the sake of being amicable. That only works when both parties are willing to do that.

        The checkmate move in this case something she had put up online with her name and a picture of the kids, in which she was asking people to protect the kids from her predator ex. I found that while googling her name for something to use, and I sprung that on her at trial without giving her any advance notice that it existed. Guys, no matter how much you hate your ex, don't use social media or websites to trash her in a way that makes her identity or yours known. It will come back to bite you in the ass. (Plus, it's a chick move to try and get everyone to ostracize someone you despise.)

        [–]Condorman80 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

        Congratulations! I know from experience this is a brutal process. Good job keeping your emotions in check and staying focused on the end goal.

        [–]19 Endorsed Contributordrrrrrr 2 points3 points  (4 children)

        sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

        From what I've read and heard from other guys who made it through divorce court to break even (which is as close to winning as you can get given the state of things), the way you win is by being a sociopath and sticking to your 48 laws of power.

        Men lose because the system is biased, but also because they tend to play to tie. It's bad game theory - in this system you have:

        Woman = play to win, Man = play fair to break even and do right by his morals. Outcome = Man loses.

        Woman = play to win, Man = an emotional beta wreck, just goes along with a few tantrums here and there. Outcome = Man is raped hard.

        Now if you can manipulate your woman into playing fair or emotionally compromise her to the point where she has trouble effectively carrying out her lawyer's plans and minigames (which there always are), AND you play to win, then you win. Which given the bias of the court means a fair / somewhat balanced decision. If that fails and she plays to win AND you play to win, it's down to skill, and with the right moves you can... tie.

        I wish I could find this article from this old dad forum where this guy explains all of the power moves that you can make (and how to resist / force her power moves to backfire). It was one of the most enlightening posts I've read, explaining how alimony and CS tax worked, why court officials and appointed psychologists / counselors are basically salesmen who are paid to get you to agree to a SETTLEMENT, which will never be in your favor. How similar to interrogation rooms you can say a bunch of positive-proving things in the mandatory in forced session with some bitch with a psych degree, and the 99 positive things will be ignored when she stands up and court and recommends the mother get custody based on this 1 thing.

        Everyone in the entire process is there to get you to back down and just fold your cards in and accept the bum deal. My friend's wife had a shark attorney who would put her up to these games with the kid, like having other men over doing fatherly shit with him when the husband was supposed to come over for visitation, or even minor things like changing visitation plans at the last minute and trying to gaslight the mix-up as the father being forgetful. It worked, he sees his kids 1 time a week and pays around $3500 dollars a month of CS.

        By accepting that you are going to be raped if you play nice, you wind up with a real opportunity to fight back. I have no experience with divorce court as I'd never get married, but from what I've observed the RP to swallow seems to be similar to 48 laws of power: You will lose unless you play to conquer, unless you play the long term game of maximizing your leverage (power) over her, and reducing her mental fortitude to the point where she cannot execute her plan properly.

        [–]long-lostfriend[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

        Men lose because the system is biased, but also because they tend to play to tie.

        I agree completely, and I lost the first time around because of that. You have to set aside the notion that your ex is working for anyone's interests other than her own (not even those of her own children, most of the time).

        [–]mauinion 0 points1 point  (2 children)

        sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

        Great stuff man! I am getting ready for a similar battle. But, I have to ask, is your friend really paying $3500 a month for CS? Is that a typo?

        [–]19 Endorsed Contributordrrrrrr 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

        Yup. No alimony because her income is slightly higher (yet somehow too small of a difference for alimony to go to him from her, go figure). It scales with income; I am not sure what his income is but I'd estimate about 130k. Still hurts though - that 130k is already about 80-90k after taxes I would imagine, so he's left with about 40k, 45k of actual money to spend in SF after the 3500 a month. Definitely not what he had in mind when he took out loans to go to a top 20 b-school. He can probably project good salary growth over the next 10-15 years or so, so he is fine, but she can file for increased CS too if his situation improves. And because she is smart, she probably will be getting a damn good lawyer.

        [–]life036 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

        Congrats. My brother went through the same situation and came out pretty well in the end, just by doing the same exact things you laid out here.

        Heed this man's words.

        [–][deleted]  (2 children)

        sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

        [deleted]

          [–]long-lostfriend[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          I would definitely bring up the cheating, even if there is no hard (heh) evidence.

          I would say that the thing he needs to protect himself from is allegations of violence toward her or the kids. Since he has been in a military/law enforcement role, some are predisposed to believing them to be bullies off the battlefield.

          What I would do is get something written from her that acknowledges that he never hit her or the kids. It doesn't need to be the main subject of an email or anything, but simply something in passing clearly affirming that can be a good insurance policy.

          [–]Grasshopper21 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          Your title and story do not match. You immediately state that "you have a good chance of getting primary custody of your kids". If you have actually won primary custody congratulations. If not, please come back with the final verdict. It's always great hearing how a man won in family court.

          [–]long-lostfriend[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          I have won what is called expanded possession. Since my divorce was finalized, I hadn't even had standard possession, and my ex had the sole right to determine where they live, where they go to school, etc.

          All of that has changed now. Even if I do not end up with primary custody, that is a victory for me.

          [–]SQQQ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          congrats bro!

          [–]m1serablist 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          call me a paranoid but your ex doesnt know your reddit username right?

          [–]long-lostfriend[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          Absolutely not.

          [–]BransonAllen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          Thanks for sharing. A good friend of mine is going through the same type of situation at the momnet and I'm going to forward this on to him.

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          [deleted]

            [–]long-lostfriend[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

            Crazy isn't always genetic. And, trust me when I say that my daughter is being given doses of Red Pill reality every time there's a teachable moment.

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

            Fantastic. You're likely to be a good father.

            [–]enlightenedlackey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

            Congratulations, my father went through the exact same thing with my half bro and sister. Knowing exactly what you've gone through I say again, well done mate, enjoy the time you can have with your kids.

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

            Congratulations, that's how my father won custody of me back in the day.He recorded every single thing.

            [–]PrinceofEden23 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

            Congrats man, but for everyone else out there, marriage and children should probably be avoided at all costs. Especially if you can't afford the time and money to have them, with each gain is another sacrifice given up.

            [–]kragshot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

            Gratz, man.

            [–]whowhathuhumm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

            won took.. tens of thousands of dollars

            Well, system weasels pulling a government check and lawyers won at least.

            [–]watersign 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

            congrats man, now enjoy the rest of your lif!

            [–]BluepillProfessor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

            opportunity to be the bitch she is on the stand, while I came off as the one who harbors no ill will and just wants what is best for my kids.

            Her final shit test and you maintained frame all the way through trial. There should be an award for guys like you. Oh yah. The reward is that you won! A woman without male guidance and a regular injection of baby batter into her innards may become increasingly erratic. Usually she will provoke the husband even more which is why maintaining frame is absolutely critical. It will infuriate her as she struggles to reconcile her dissonance in divorcing this "rock."

            [–]disciplinewithin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

            VICTORY! Congratulations! You are an inspiration to us all! GENTLEMEN: MAINTAIN FRAME!

            [–][deleted]  (5 children)

            sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

            [deleted]

              [–]long-lostfriend[S] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

              sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

              Yeah, if you are marriage minded, vet the woman thoroughly. I would recommend marrying someone younger, someone whose sexual partner count is extremely low or nonexistent, who has a pleasant and submissive demeanor, and who realizes that she is fortunate to have you.

              Good luck finding that in the West, bro. If you do find her, she's not likely to be older than 21.

              [–]sentientleaf 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

              While I agree you have a better shot with a woman from non-Western culture, do not marry the unexperienced western woman either. I've seen this personally go down. If she takes good care of herself, which, why would you marry if she didn't, then give it 5+ years and she'll start slowly regretting the fact she didn't live out her "roaring 20s." Once the abundance eyes start to wander, depression creeps in. They often don't even know why, but neither of you can "fix" anything at that point. You can be a high value, high quality man, run dread game, improve yourself constantly, etc., but the fact is: she settled on "one person," and where's the fun in that? "It's time for fun! I got married too young!" Consider reading sex at dawn. It's built in.

              [–]long-lostfriend[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

              It is a risky proposition with an American woman, but I wouldn't rule them out completely.

              In a lot of situations, the woman is already predisposed against the party, "Sex and the City" lifestyle. Often she has spent significantly more time socializing with happily married women and considers their approval more important than that of her same-age peers. These types are not impressed by tales of flings and hookups and demonstrations of sluttiness, whether she has a man in her life or not.

              If you can find one of these semi-rare jewels, you are in luck. As long as you do your due diligence in Game and maintaining your level of attractiveness to her (and to others), the chances are pretty slim that such a woman is going to suffer from "the grass is greener" syndrome.

              [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

              Many people are having kids and divorces at 22 nowadays.

              [–]babybelly -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

              sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

              when i think of my future ex i imagine her as the devil herself knowing all the tricks and using all the advice you have given us here against me. i may overthink things but my future ex is truly scary.

              [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

              sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

              OP,

              I still can't start my own threads, so let me ask you: how did you save money for the divorce? You were still living together, she knew what you make, so how did you squirrel away money for getting an apartment, furniture, etc.?

              [–]long-lostfriend[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

              Oh, perhaps I wasn't clear. The ruling this week was not the divorce itself, but rather a motion to modify the custody of the kids.

              I was caught completely financially unprepared for the divorce itself, and I was taken to the cleaners on that one, and the kids ended up primarily under her control, with a completely unsatisfactory arrangement that severely limited my role in their life as a father.

              In the intervening two years between the divorce and the motion to modify, I swallowed the Red Pill, got back on my feet, and planned the things I had to get done to rectify the situation. Getting this motion all the way through final trial took longer than the original divorce itself, and became a clusterfuck of side issues due to all of the false accusations of child abuse that magically arose when I dared to assert my rights as a father in the kids' lives.

              To answer your question in another way, I think that every married man should be prepared with a secret, untraceable "disaster fund." That means either keeping cash off-property and out of a bank, or buying precious metals and holding them yourself where there is no paper trail and there is ease of access. I am also a fan of cryptocurrency and would recommend that men start checking out Bitcoin as a viable means of making funds both readily accessible and able to be virtually disconnected from your identity.

              Even if you are confident that your marriage is a happy one and have no intention of divorcing your wife, from my experience I would tell every married man to be prepared for the worst with a clandestine financial "exit strategy" should the shit hit the fan.