all 160 comments

[–][deleted] 93 points94 points  (0 children)

My wife's female maternity doctors (yes, both) did the same thing for me. These days it is something any expecting father should easily be aware of. Doesn't mean they are though.

[–]Shaft-of-Patriarchy 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Mandatory paternity testing is part of the boilerplate warning for all new LTRs.

Get it out of the way before you're even considering kids, that way when it comes up down the line there are no shocks, and if she objects you know she has something to hide because you already made her agree to it as part of your consent to the relationship.

[–]DoItLive247 7 points8 points  (2 children)

DNA/Paternity tests should just be a standard test that is administrated for every pregnancy/birth.

[–]LasherDeviance[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

True. But if it became mandatory, 200 million bitches worldwide would be exposed.

It would end up being a Supreme court issue.

[–]DoItLive247 8 points9 points  (0 children)

If it becomes a supreme court issue, so be it. Last time I checked paternity fraud is still a crime. It needs exposure!

[–][deleted]  (23 children)


    [–]skinnysandvs 17 points18 points  (14 children)

    Wait asian people have different ear wax?

    [–]SnickerSnak 22 points23 points  (12 children)

    Generally yes (also native Americans). They also have different sweat glands (the same genes encode for both) which is why they don't stink much when they sweat.

    [–]Kiyanavasala 13 points14 points  (0 children)

    That's... actually interesting.

    [–]MrShickadance9 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    That explains why Jeremy lin keeps getting NBA jobs...

    [–]1IdiDadaAmin 2 points3 points  (7 children)

    That explains my dry earwax and my odorless sweat...

    [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (6 children)

    Doesn't explain why every native I've met (I know a lot) stink when they sweat.

    [–]LasherDeviance[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    That's the beer coming out of them that you smell.


    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    You must be American. Real beer doesn't smell like that ;)

    [–]1IdiDadaAmin 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Good genetics is no match for poor hygiene.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Sweating while working is poor hygiene?

    [–]1IdiDadaAmin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Oh, i got nothin for that then.

    [–]SnickerSnak -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    I'd guess it's either diet or you know a lot of natives that have a bit of other races in them.

    The gene that causes this is actually recessive, the stinky gene is dominate. This means it's more likely to occur in a genetically homogenous society like Korea or Japan. Native Americans have been mixing with other races for so long many of them might have lost it.

    [–]charlie_bodango 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Does this gene apply to math, too?

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)


      [–]Endorsed Contributor2comment 2 points3 points  (2 children)

      Doesn't always work like that. Have a good friend who is half and half, Japanese mother, white father. He looked completely Japanese until 25 or so, slowly getting imprecise features from his father as he ages (kinda like if you see pics, Obama looks like his white grand dad actually but its hard to exactly pick out exactly what).

      OTOH, his brother is the opposite and looks almost completely white in the same way.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)


        [–]Endorsed Contributor2comment 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Perhaps, but I've been around asians all my life, mainly Koreans. And I know most half/halfs look exactly that, mixed, but he and his brother were really weird exceptions.

        [–]Burner1701 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Do you have a European SO there?

        [–]makethemsayayy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Did you have to learn how to speak Japanese?

        I want a cute little Japanese girlfriend who's innocent too!

        [–]100 Modbsutansalt 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        I had to look into this and sure enough they do regular tests nowadays for genetic abnormalities via a Maternal Serum Screening in the first and second trimesters. Another option is the cfDNA test that can be completed as early as 9 weeks!

        This is a monumental change for men's benefit, which I cannot stress enough how awesome this is. Guys, please, do yourselves a favor and take advantage of this ability to be tested so early in the pregnancy!

        Sources: <- Scroll down to "Second Trimester Prenatal Screening Tests". <- Scroll down to "Screening tests". <- cfDNA is discussed along with other options

        [–]1wantonton 20 points21 points  (21 children)

        Great advice.

        Just to clarify, I don't think you would get stuck with c.s. just by signing the birth certificate. That is usually a result of someone signing, THEN finding out something that let him know, or should have let him know, he was not, or likely was not, the father but took no action for an extended period of time. If you had no reason to know or believe the child was another's then you can usually contest paternity when you find out, provided you don't wait too long. As always, check with a local attorney.

        [–]token_stache 24 points25 points  (12 children)

        Depends on the state. Some have it that signing makes you the legal parent no matter what.

        [–]Newbosterone 2 points3 points  (2 children)

        Ohio law says you have 60 days to rescind an affidavit of paternity to contest the paternity. Under the presumption of paternity conditions, if you're married, and she has a kid, it's yours unless you prove otherwise.

        A presumption of paternity can only be rebutted by clear and convincing evidence that includes the results of genetic testing. In accordance with division (B) of section 3111.03 of the Revised Code, a presumption that arises when the husband of a married woman consented to artificial insemination or embryo donation is conclusive and cannot be rebutted, pursuant to section 3111.95 or 3111.97 of the Revised Code.

        Warning: I'm not a lawyer, if you're in this situation, get one.

        [–]LasherDeviance[S] 16 points17 points  (4 children)

        I'm in Texas. Dallas actually. TX is BP as fuck for all of the myths about cowboys and hard work. Dallas bitches are scandalous, Fort Worth bitches are a lot better.

        [–]Junahill 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I live in Ft Worth my friend, and they are indeed much better.

        [–]token_stache 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Damn thats a shame. I love an old fashioned southern girl.

        [–]BFMCBeaner 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Fort Worther myself too. When I want easy scandal, Dallas is the place to go.

        [–]1wantonton 1 point2 points  (3 children)

        Yes, signing the birth certificate does make you the parent. It protects you from paternity claims from outside the marriage, however it can be contested from within (by either the mother or father). So if a married women cheats, and the other man claims it is his baby, most jurisdictions won't let him do anything unless she acknowledges the affair. The husband, even though he signed the birth certificate, can, due to this info, can contest paternity. However, say he doesn't care and does nothing, then five years later he divorces, then he might not be able to contest because he waited too long.

        [–]token_stache 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        I know in one state you can't contest after signing, think it's either NY or NJ.

        [–]1wantonton 5 points6 points  (1 child)

        Federal law, 42 USCA §§654(20) and 602(a)(2), which requires States to abide by these laws to receive federal funds for welfare and/or child support enforcement, mandates that voluntary acknowledgment of paternity can be rescinded within 60 days or, after 60 days by alleging various forms of fraud.

        Again, speak with a local family attorney to see what, exactly, your rights are.

        [–]token_stache 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Thanks for the clarification. May save me ass someday.

        [–]LasherDeviance[S] 20 points21 points  (7 children)

        Dude. The first day that my woman told that she was pregnant, I told her that i want a DNA Test.

        [–]1H42 23 points24 points  (4 children)

        And she screamed: WTF? You don't trust me?

        And that is all you need to know. There is no such thing as 100% certainty when paternity is involved without testing.

        [–]Redrog1 22 points23 points  (0 children)

        I told my girlfriend if we had kids I was going to ask for a paternity test. She was confused first, then angry, then sad, then angry... The whole show. I remained calm and kept repeating that it was not about her, it was for my peace of mind, that I would ask for it always no matter who I was dating. She accepted it and has not been an issue.

        [–]rebuildingMyself 18 points19 points  (1 child)

        Lol I love how everything has to be about them. No, I'm not ensuring that the next 20+ years of resources are allocated to my child and not some alpha thug spawn. It's simply a childish spit at you, dear.

        Genetic heritage is something a woman has the privilege of knowing already and a simple test allows the same for men. Boo fucking hoo

        [–]makethemsayayy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Boo-motherfucking test that DNA or so help me god I'll dip to Mexico-hoo.

        [–]LasherDeviance[S] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

        Actually she said: I know that you are a MRA. If you get pissed, I'm fucked! I had a orgasm of joy.

        [–]OakTr3E 5 points6 points  (1 child)

        One semi-bad argument (but one that apparently seem to work) is: "It's not a big deal. You already know it's your baby. I don't. If you have nothing to hide it shouldn't be a big deal right? Why are you getting upset?" (shift the blame)

        [–]UndesirableFarang 11 points12 points  (0 children)

        I wouldn't even play that angle, just pass off the DNA paternity test as one of the routine tests. No point in raising the pressure and voicing accusatory suspicions unless you have to do so.

        [–]1H42 6 points7 points  (1 child)

        Google: non-invasive pre-natal paternity test . I saw USD $990 as a cost. You might find a better deal.

        [–]LasherDeviance[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        With my Aetna insurance, 330.

        [–]skoobled 8 points9 points  (1 child)

        I can think of logic that would work in making this part of the mainstream expected pregnancy process:

        Ladies, make sure HE lives up to HIS responsibilities to your child: get a paternity test during pregnancy to prove his fatherhood beyond reasonable doubt. Don't let him use doubt as an excuse to shirk his responsibilities. Get the test!

        Put this way, any honest woman would happily get it done. Any woman trying to avoid it is an instant red flag

        [–]makethemsayayy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Honestly we could probably trick feminists into doing this for us.

        [–]Burner1701 10 points11 points  (2 children)

        I thought the test separates out cells from the baby's blood from the mother's blood, not take blood directly from the baby. It works though. :-) My understanding is that taking blood from the baby directly, or getting amniotic fluid, requires an amniocentecis which carries a bit of risk to the baby. I wouldn't risk my potential baby's life to find it paternity early, but the new test with the mothers blood from 12 weeks is awesome!
        I had zero doubts with our baby 10 years ago and she came out and started growing my curls anyway. Good girl.

        [–]1cover20 5 points6 points  (1 child)

        Ah, that's better. Yes I was thinking of amnio and it does risk stunted limb growth. If you can take it from the mother's bloodstream that's better. But I thought the blood supplies (mother, baby) were completely separate.

        [–][deleted]  (7 children)


          [–]100 Modbsutansalt 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          There's a couple options available for paternity testing:

          1. Maternal serum screening which they'll use for genetic screening for abnormalities like Downs syndrome. This happens in the first and second trimesters and is already a default test.
          2. Cell free DNA test (cfDNA), which can be done as early as 9 weeks.

          [–]LasherDeviance[S] 4 points5 points  (4 children)

          You should ask because feminist bullshit says that a doctor can't tell you, and that goes against his Hippocratic oath.

          Checking for Downs Syndrome/Tay-Sachs/Sickle cell anemia, is a required test for all pregnancy. They can use the same blood for DNA test as well and that's what feminist movement keeps us from knowing.

          If a doctor says no, challenge him and find a doctor that will tell the truth.

          Doctors get paid from patients.

          [–]bouchu5413 6 points7 points  (2 children)

          OP don't know where you are from but at least in the US amniocentesis is not required, it is always offered though. Many people don't do it because the risk of miscarriage is 1:200.

          [–]Requi3m 3 points4 points  (1 child)

          That number is from inaccurate 1970s studies. According to wikipedia:

          A more recent study (2006) has indicated this may actually be much lower, perhaps as low as 1 in 1,600 (0.06%).[12] Unlike the previous studies, the number in this study only reflects the loss that resulted from amniocentesis complications and excluded the cases when parents decided for an abortion following the test results.

          That seems like a much more acceptable number to me if I'm guaranteed to not have a potato for a kid.

          [–]bouchu5413 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          These tests doesn't guarantee you your child won't have these genetic conditions.

          [–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          You should ask because feminist bullshit says that a doctor can't tell you, and that goes against his Hippocratic oath.

          You should ask because they will not outright lie if asked point blank a question but they will omit the truth if not asked. (IE. they do a blood test and the blood type of the baby is impossible by the combination of the mother and father's blood types).

          [–]Burner1701 9 points10 points  (24 children)

          The doctor would need the mother's permission wouldn't they?

          [–]WasKingWokeUpGiraffe 6 points7 points  (23 children)

          No, genetic tests can be approved by either parent.

          [–]Burner1701 4 points5 points  (17 children)

          But it's the woman's blood. I'd be surprised if a doctor here could legally order a test on blood drawn from a patient without that patient's permission for the test, unless they were unconscious. But I'm in Australia.
          Edit: Either parent can approve genetic testing of the child once it's out, if that's what you mean.

          [–]WasKingWokeUpGiraffe 8 points9 points  (13 children)

          No you don't understand; The blood sample is done on ALL pregnant woman to determine any genetic dysfunction in the child. You can then ask for a paternal test, in which case they'll use the same blood sample, and not have to stick the woman a second time.

          [–]Burner1701 6 points7 points  (12 children)

          I do understand. It's still her blood sample. Imagine you got a blood test done and someone else asked the doctor to add some more tests and send the results to them instead of you, and not tell you about the test, it's ridiculous. At least I'm sure it's ridiculous here, I'm no longer very surprised about the sort of bizarre things that are considered normal in the States (if that's where you are).

          [–]Derjenige 3 points4 points  (2 children)

          Though it's a lot different than "someone else" adding more tests and sending the results to them instead of you. The "someone else" is affected by the results of the tests a lot more than the actual patient is.

          [–]Burner1701 6 points7 points  (1 child)

          Look, I personally think mandatory paternity testing with this new non-invasive test should be automatic (ignore the cost issue). Having a man blindly raise a baby that isn't his is vicious. A woman never has any doubt so why should we? All I'm saying is that it doesn't sound particularly legal to test an aspect of someone's blood without their consent. I'd gladly sign a petition to remove that need for consent though.

          [–]makethemsayayy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Yeah and it doesn't seem completely legal that the man has 0 say in whether or not the child will be born, but is on the hook for decades of child support either.

          He could at least know if it's fucking his for God's sake. If you wanna get into "what sounds legal" none of the divorce shit would sound legal if we're actually talking about "equality".

          [–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Well if the woman is claiming the child is yours then she should have to prove it regardless.

          The reason they try to wait until it comes out is it gives 9 months of 'buy in' from the man and attempts to bond the man to the embryo so he's not likely to bail if he finds out the kid isn't his (think Earl Jr. from My Name is Earl as an example of that).

          Just make sure you tell the woman you want a DNA test ASAP and you can get it at 10 weeks from a simple blood test she'll be getting anyway. Any opposition to this is grounds for NEXTing and contesting at birth.

          [–]Burner1701 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I'm not OP and I don't have this problem, but I agree. Any reasonable woman shouldn't have a problem with a paternity test just for clarity. I'd like to see paternity testing as standard now the test is so easy.

          [–]insomniaczombiex 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          I believe this would fall under Moore vs. Regents of the Univ of California.

          [–]Burner1701 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          That sounds like a stretch. Worth a try but by the time it got through the courts the baby would be crawling.

          [–]yea_tht_dnt_go_there -1 points0 points  (1 child)

          No, they test the babies blood for the genetic testing. You don't need the moms blood too for a paternity test.

          [–]Burner1701 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Follow this link :

          Scroll down to the 3 types of testing. OP is talking about a test based on a routine blood test, that's the first one, NIPP. He thinks it's from the baby's blood but it isn't. Now read the other two methods, they are not routine at all and carry some risk of miscarriage.
          Edit: you know we are talking about during pregnancy right? It's different after the baby is born of course.

          [–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

          someone up the thread said that it was the fetus's blood that is being tested. so yes, it makes sense that either parent can order tests.

          [–]Burner1701 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Yeah, that was wrong. The routine test is a maternal blood test. There's no standard routine test that takes blood from the foetus. They can test the amniotic fluid and get genetic information from that but it carries risk so they only do it if it's medically indicated.

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)


            [–]Burner1701 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            It's the NIPP test, blood from the mother's arm like a regular blood test.

            [–]Phaint 0 points1 point  (4 children)

            How is he technically a parent without the child being born?

            [–]bells_320 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Because he technically penetrated her and supposedly, his sperm, created life within her.

            [–]pl231 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            I don't understand. Children arent fatherless until they are born... How is the mom the mother until the kid is born then?

            [–]WasKingWokeUpGiraffe 5 points6 points  (1 child)

            From the paternal DNA lab's website:

            Just contact Genetica DNA Laboratories, and our staff will work with the mother's obstetrician's office to make arrangements for DNA testing of the fetal samples.

            Simply call and state that you want a paternity test performed, the mother won't know if the obstetrician is alerted ahead of time.


            [–]Burner1701 6 points7 points  (0 children)

            I looked at your link. That's completely different, that's an invasive and specific procedure. There is no way on Earth that can happen without the mother's very specific agreement. It's an amniocentesis or actually going in and getting a piece of placenta, not just a blood test. It's also not of insignificant risk to the baby.

            [–]Xstinaballerina 2 points3 points  (2 children)

            Those tests have a risk of miscarriage. That's why they normally only push it for women over 35, when the risks for those conditions are higher. Feminism has indeed become quite a ridiculous movement of women just wanting to be pissed at men. But to say that waiting until after birth to perform risky tests is a feminist farce makes no more sense than saying that men piss standing up in order to assert their dominance over women.

            [–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            But to say that waiting until after birth to perform risky tests is a feminist farce makes no more sense than saying that men piss standing up in order to assert their dominance over women.

            Holy shit, and here I thought I pissed standing up because I have a dick and it's convenient to do so. Well let me get my oppression and domination on by pissing standing up now! /s

            Actually earlier in the thread you can get a DNA test for a kid at like 10 weeks which is what 2.5 months in? If she's not willing to do that then next her ass and contest the paternity.

            [–]Moldable_Clay 6 points7 points  (29 children)

            As... Someone that swallowed the pill a year or so ago, with a kid on the way in February, is it too late for me? I mean I was pushing paternity from the start or my name isn't going on any certificate.

            [–]LasherDeviance[S] 10 points11 points  (28 children)

            Find the right doctor, get some genetic testing done. It's only too late when you sign a birth certificate.
            My kid is due in May. The difference is that I know for sure that it's my kid.!

            [–]Moldable_Clay 5 points6 points  (27 children)

            Well... I'll level, I've been too into working, building my own personal finances and other forms of self improvement, I haven't been bothered to go to any appointments or anything, went to the sonogram, that's it, my "SO" handled all of that.

            I pretty much already have it set in stone that I'm not signing anything until I know it's my kid or not.

            [–]LasherDeviance[S] 7 points8 points  (3 children)

            Totally agree with you. What I'm saying I don't sign shit until you know for sure, and according to science instead of the feminist narrative, you can know before signing the BS(Birth certificate).

            [–]makethemsayayy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Wait so the feminist narrative is AGAINST paternity testing?!!?

            [–]Moldable_Clay -1 points0 points  (0 children)

            Alrighty then, I'm gonna put the kid out of my mind until paternity is certain. Here's to a "Betatizing" two more months (lol)

            [–]1wantonton -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

            Again, no. See my comments elsewhere on this post. Don't create shit just out of paranoia (if you have legitimate suspicion, that's another issue). Call a family law attorney, they'll likely tell you, w/o charge, exactly what signing the birth certificate means and how it affects a subsequent DNA test.

            [–]ElderlyTree 3 points4 points  (5 children)

            I wish I saw this post 7 months ago when she would still communicate with me.

            Fighting to get a test done now at 3 months old. Fuck

            [–]DoNotEatTheTail 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            This was my exact situation. It was a fight. The paternity test got done around 3-4 months old, but I never had a chance to be alone with my daughter until she more than 1 year old.

            [–]Newdist2 -1 points0 points  (3 children)

            Fighting? It takes 5 seconds to swab for saliva. Nobody has to know until the results come back.

            [–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            He probably doesn't even get to see the kid let alone have 5 seconds alone with the kid at this point.

            [–]ElderlyTree 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            Yeah, Mr. Thinkitthrough, that would work if she let me see him long enough to do it.

            [–]Newdist2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Sorry man, that sucks.

            If you're up for it, do you mind posting your story? Is she claiming that he isn't yours (to shut you out of his life) or that he is? I assume you have a lawyer either way.

            [–]srsh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            thanks for the heads up. Before your post, I believed this test was only possible after the child was born.

            [–]rebuildingMyself 6 points7 points  (3 children)

            I love this discussion with any woman who wants to fanatize about babies (never MY babies just babies in general) and us getting married. Just tell them any baby of mine will be paternity tested and watching their face change into tantrum mode is hilarious.

            In comes the shit tests. You don't trust me? You think I'm cheating on you? Blah blah. I simply let the shit test spewing die down and calmly say that I won't ever sign a birth certificate without knowing for sure. It's logical and if she's not a skank then what's to worry about? I find the whole thing amusing.

            Same thing with taking my last name or prenuptial agreements. Suddenly all this romance about a government contract starts to look like a government contract and it's not faaairrr

            [–]BluepillProfessor 0 points1 point  (2 children)

            They can't handle it when any of their power gets taken away. I will look for legislation on this very soon. For the chillen....

            [–]makethemsayayy 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Why would there be legislation on this?

            [–]BluepillProfessor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            There shouldn't be. I am saying anything that takes away power from women will be legislated away in short order.

            [–]thetruthbetold1 5 points6 points  (3 children)

            i will put it to you like this . if you are married the law sees you as the father and you will be paying the bill . if you are not married the moment you sign the cert of birth you are saying you are the father under contract and are responsible for the child in all ways . you do not ever need to sign a cert of birth , it is never needed other than to inform the state of its property . that is why you and the mother are the informants to the state . a DNA test will be needed as soon as she wants your money so it will get done at a cost to you of about 2000$ plus all back child support from the birth of the child yes that is right from the birth . and in some states you will get the hospital bill and you will in all states have to pay for insurance even if she has it from her job . they use your until it can no longer be used then they will use the state insurance she will get for free . never i repeat never sign anything without reading it first and knowing how to retain your rights .

            [–]jcrpta 0 points1 point  (2 children)

            you are saying you are the father under contract

            Been reading Freeman on the Land stuff, by any chance?

            [–]thetruthbetold1 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            no but i do read and understand what a contract is thank you . do you not undestand how a contract works or are you just taking the piss

            [–]jcrpta 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Because what you wrote is straight out of Freeman on the Land-type arguments.

            I understand exactly how a contract works and it has absolutely nothing to do with who the legal father of a child is.

            [–]ballonetje3 1 point2 points  (7 children)

            While this is true, and possibly legal even (depending on state/country) please keep in mind that a test like thid has consequences. The test you described has a 1% chance of creating severe handicaps for the baby, so if everybody starts testing thats a lot of handicaps. As for OP, your doctor is stupid. That 1% risk is way too high seeing the likeliness of the deficiencies in your case. There are safer tests in your case

            [–]grachuss 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Keep us updated. I've only heard about these being found out after the fact.

            [–]miss_sogony 0 points1 point  (4 children)

            Why don't you just NOT sign anything then get a paternity test later on.

            [–]100 Modbsutansalt 3 points4 points  (3 children)

            Why wait when you can have the paternity test completed in the first trimester?

            Also, think about how we can couch this to be to women's benefit as well so feminists can champion this for us! "If your boyfriend or husband finds out it's not his and decides to leave, you'll still have the time to decide if you will have it on your own, rather than after the baby is already born."

            See, it's actually a win-win for everyone to get tested early.

            [–][deleted]  (2 children)


              [–]100 Modbsutansalt 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              These new tests are already part of the battery of tests women undergo. Now we can perform paternity tests along with them with no risk to mom or baby.

              [–]football1010 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              This should be at the top of the forum.

              [–]RamSauce 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              I don't want to burst your bubble but the blood from the actual baby full screening kinds of tests mentioned here are only recommended for older women (35+) or people with a history in their family. It's dangerous. What if that is your child and she has a spontaneous miscarriage? Not that it isn't a great idea if you are getting the test anyway. I'm just pointing out that if that test is not preformed you shouldn't be too suspicious.

              Canadian health care system. This is what my doctor said. They don't make more money for recommending other tests like they would in a privatized Heath care system.

              [–]makethemsayayy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Careful there are blue pill doctors who will actively avoid telling the father it's not his kid. Lol right?

              [–]Nitrobroom 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              The post birth test is done with a cheek swab. How do they get the cells if the child is still in utero?

              [–]1cover20 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              I think this test is known to risk stunting the limb growth of the baby. I seem to remember that from my wife's pregnancies.

              [–]1RBuddDwyer -4 points-3 points  (6 children)

              The doctor actually pulled me into a separate office and asked me if I wanted him to do one.

              Holy shit. That is a serious breech of ethics and patient confidentiality by the doctor there. He is her doctor, not yours. For him to surreptitiously run tests like that without her knowledge and consent is a huge no no in the medical world. You got a huge break there.

              [–]BluepillProfessor 1 point2 points  (5 children)

              I don't agree and neither does this doctor. He is also the doctor for the fetus and the man/father has rights to the fetus also. I am encouraged that women don't get to run the show completely any more. This is a good sign but I suspect they will bar it by law in the future.

              [–]1RBuddDwyer 1 point2 points  (4 children)

              He is also the doctor for the fetus and the man/father has rights to the fetus also.

              Unfortunately that is not true. Up until the baby makes it out of the vagina alive, the mother is considered the patient, and the mother's Obstetrician is the only doctor. Until the infant takes its first breath, it is not considered a person and is not a separate patient. The doctor's interest in the unborn child's life is to the extent dictated by the mother and no one else. If she doesn't want to do something to the kid, then it doesn't get done. No one can override that.

              I am encouraged that women don't get to run the show completely any more.

              No, they still do run the show. Roe v. Wade and its progeny settled that issue. Pregnancy is a medical condition where the mother is the patient and she is the one who makes the decisions. The father gets no say in anything until the child is born.

              Look, I agree with the doctor and think his actions on a basic level were good, and I wish potential fathers had the right to do things like this. But the reality of the law and medical ethics is that there is only one patient in this situation: the mother. And doing medical procedures (like testing) without informed consent from the patient is still unethical under the current rules.

              [–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              Until the infant takes its first breath, it is not considered a person and is not a separate patient.

              Double standard... so then why is it when a pregnant woman is murdered it's considered a double homicide if the fetus is not a separate patient.

              [–]1RBuddDwyer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Punishing criminal conduct of the defendant versus privacy rights of a female patient. Two entirely separate aims. Double standard? Yes.

              Also, murder of an unborn child is a case by case basis. Eight weeks gestation, probably not. Ten days from due date, probably yes.

              [–]BluepillProfessor 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              You are legally correct but morally bankrupt. How far have we come from this simple oath engraved on a statue at the medical school I attended:

              I swear by Apollo the physician, and Aesculapius the surgeon, likewise Hygeia and Panacea, and call all the gods and goddesses to witness, that I will observe and keep this underwritten oath, to the utmost of my power and judgment.

              I will reverence my master who taught me the art. Equally with my parents, will I allow him things necessary for his support, and will consider his sons as brothers. I will teach them my art without reward or agreement; and I will impart all my acquirement, instructions, and whatever I know, to my master's children, as to my own; and likewise to all my pupils, who shall bind and tie themselves by a professional oath, but to none else.

              With regard to healing the sick, I will devise and order for them the best diet, according to my judgment and means; and I will take care that they suffer no hurt or damage.

              Nor shall any man's entreaty prevail upon me to administer poison to anyone; neither will I counsel any man to do so. Moreover, I will get no sort of medicine to any pregnant woman, with a view to destroy the child.

              Further, I will comport myself and use my knowledge in a godly manner.

              I will not cut for the stone, but will commit that affair entirely to the surgeons.

              Whatsoever house I may enter, my visit shall be for the convenience and advantage of the patient; and I will willingly refrain from doing any injury or wrong from falsehood, and (in an especial manner) from acts of an amorous nature, whatever may be the rank of those who it may be my duty to cure, whether mistress or servant, bond or free.

              Whatever, in the course of my practice, I may see or hear (even when not invited), whatever I may happen to obtain knowledge of, if it be not proper to repeat it, I will keep sacred and secret within my own breast. If I faithfully observe this oath, may I thrive and prosper in my fortune and profession, and live in the estimation of posterity; or on breach thereof, may the reverse be my fate![4]

              [–]1RBuddDwyer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              You are legally correct but morally bankrupt.

              Woah, let's set the record straight. I agree with the doctor in this case. That does not change the fact, however, that his actions go against current medical ethics.

              As far as what happened to the Hippocratic Oath, Roe v. Wade is what happened to it.

              [–]1H42 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              Drawing blood from a fetus does have some risks.

              There is such a thing as a "non-invasive pre-natal paternity test" (Google it). They just need a blood sample from Preggo, then they look for the fetal cells her blood contains. Then they do genetic testing, and you will know if its yours, or not.