all 112 comments

[–]16 Endorsed Contributorss_camaro 19 points20 points  (0 children)

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Women, though admittedly products of evolution, act within social and legal parameters. That means TV, schools and the courts.

You might not learn to hate the scorpion on your back, but it sure has been weaponized to sink your ass, if you give it half a chance. Don't spend your best froggy years drifting with the corpses of Davy Jones.

[–]1rife_omeqa 26 points27 points  (2 children)

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Excellent post. I went through a similar enlightenment after finding TRP.

I'm going to butcher this explanation but here we go; Assume that an outside observer holds both sexes as equal. They've been told their whole lives that everyone is equal and that women can do everything men can do and that women are just as valuable as men in every way.

When this outside observer looks at TRP through a lense of equality they easily dismiss it as misogynistic because TRP does not hold men and women as equals in all affairs. Any TRP discussion that highlights women as less than perfectly equal proves this misogynistic characterization to the observer.

Kurt Cobain said "I'd rather be hated for what I am than loved for what I am not". TRP doesn't hate women. It endeavors to teach men what women are so that they can be loved and truly appreciated for what they are, not what they might seem to be for a time.

The bitterness of newcomers to TRP is the product of them loving the illusion of a woman with all the virtues of men. Only to have that illusion shattered.

Expecting women to act contrary to their nature is a recipe for disaster. TRP is an understanding of the nature of women, as well as the nature of men, and understanding how they best cooperate for mutual benefit.

[–]Mr_Niche 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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Directions unclear. Listening to Nirvana.

[–]RPL23 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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"The bitterness of newcomers to TRP is the product of them loving the illusion of a woman with all the virtues of men. Only to have that illusion shattered."

freakin brilliant.

[–]2emptyform 91 points92 points  (2 children)

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Indeed, and if you look over at RedPillWomen, they are growing in numbers too (5k) and seem to be happier than ever. Sometimes I read that shit and my cold heart actually warms a little at how adorable they are.

Women are like children, but that can be a HUGE compliment. My favorite part of being in relationships with women is now unlocking their child-like wonder they have for the world. A good woman's joy makes me feel joy, I just have to be a strong leader.

[–]3 Endorsed ContributorSkorchZang 5 points6 points  (1 child)

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Likewise! Well said, sir.

[–]chillmonkey88 12 points13 points  (6 children)

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Right there with you in your point. I went through a break up that I didn't think was possible... then discovered red pill with hatred in my heart. Not at women, but just this one. Asking things like "how could she choose that guy over me? I'm on a whole different level than him... I have my shit together he doesn't even have a car! Or a job!" Then after venting on a few subs about it... rp helped me better understand and take a step back and see what was this made up betrayal. I'm back in control of my brain and better for it. I might be a MTGOW right now, but fuck it... I'm not sweating women, practice pickup when I get time but most of all I feel red pill got me to practice what red pill preaches at its roots... be a better man. Always better yourself everyday no matter what... because of that I do adore women more and no longer hold the grudge I did for so long. Good post op.

[–]whoops_fap 1 point2 points  (5 children)

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Whyd she choose him?

[–]chillmonkey88 10 points11 points  (4 children)

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I work a lot and she said I didn't give her enough attention...

Translation - I was being a beta provider workaholic and he was the rapper wannabe bad boy type she was attracted to. She loves the pop-hip-hop scene... (Lil Wayne, nicki manaj, Rihanna, Eminem - mainstream rap)

[–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 6 points7 points  (2 children)

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He gave her tingles, you didn't. No shame, we've all experienced that at some point I think.

Funny how simple all of it is.

[–]chillmonkey88 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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Bull's eyed... I'd say that's side effect of red pill... failure is just learning curve activated rather than a dreadful heartache. I have no qualms against her. I didn't fit the cookie cutter guy she wanted. No big deal... I can take away I work too much, and I shouldn't go after girls that have standards that clash with mine. I'm better for it and look at all women like that now rather than try squeeze into their ideal-man blue print, I hold my ground and make them fit mine, if not, next!

[–]chillmonkey88 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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It is funny now after the pill... old bp me would still be sad and think of how to change. New rp me says, OK I do work a tad much but her loss the next one needs to qualify herself to me and not visa versa.

[–]foooow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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As I'm sure you've figured out, women are literal slaves to fashion and fads. She will dump the other kid she left you for the moment the next fashionable thing moves into her line of sight. Be glad that you didn't waste any more time with someone like her. You're going to be alright- good luck with the next girl!

[–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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The only thing influencing your happiness is expectation. When you take away any expectation, there is nothing to detract from that happiness. This is a large part of Buddhism, and a very pragmatic point of view. Women are not men with tits. As soon as you learn to hold women up to feminine standards you find it so much easier to be satisfied with their behaviour. It's same way that I know my dog will shit on the floor if I don't walk him; I know how he'll behave as a consequence to my actions.

I personally love women, but having said that it's important not to excuse shitty female behaviour. A lot of comments in this post are bordering BluePill apologetics. Expect a dog to be a dog, but if he bites you need to discipline him.

[–]laere 7 points8 points  (3 children)

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What are trickle truths?

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (1 child)

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It's when a woman tells you something that is a lie ("I didn't hook up or dance with any guys at that party last night I swear") that then becomes a half truth a few weeks/months later ("Ok so I danced with a guy and he tried to make out with me but I didn't") and then she trickles even further ("OK so I did make out with him but I was drunk and nothing happened after that!") until finally the full truth comes out ("Ok so I blew him in the bathroom! Gosh you should have just let this go! I was drunk and I can barely remember it!")

[–]laere 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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Oh that makes sense.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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Girl- "I got too drunk last night :("

....

Later

....

Girl- "I feel really bad, I have to admit that time I got really drunk Eric kissed me"

....

Later

....

Girl-"I'm really sorry, I slept with Eric that night when I was drunk, I was so out of it, I didn't know what was going on"

....

The actual truth- the girl has sucked Erics dick and will do it again.

[–]deepsouthscoundrel 3 points4 points  (4 children)

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Thank you for stating so eloquently stating what I've been contemplating for a long time. I can't thank this community enough for helping me understand women better than I ever have, which has in turn helped me love and appreciate women for who they are.

[–]cdx75xmx[S] 10 points11 points  (3 children)

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Sometimes there's a lot of negativity in this sub, and sometimes the impression given by this sub is that it's an anti-feminist reactionary movement, but TRP is so much more than a reaction to feminism, and there's a lot of very GOOD things coming from this sub. I think it's easy for posters to want to play into the role that feminists strawman us as, and that's unfortunate but completely understandable.

What I've taken from this sub is a new respect for gender roles, a greater sense of brotherhood with my friends, a better understanding of women, and an appreciation for the proper roles of the feminine and masculine in society.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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I think you have to go through the hate to reach acceptance.

I view it similar to the stages of grief, ie. You are grieving the loss of your fantasy only when you accept what women are really like will you stop grieving.

[–]Raggos 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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Wonderfull read, however my grammar nazi is cringing inside, could you please edit and fix all the mistakes? Like the toad (instead of scorpion) saying it's in my nature?

Thank you for sharing! This sub needs more people like you!

[–]cdx75xmx[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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Just fixed the frog/scorpion thing. Wrote this in a hurry on my phone, but specify what other mistakes I made and I'll fix them. Thank you for the support!

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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I feel like you love what women were supposed to be. Their "gender role" per say. The women today however do not need to exhibit such traits because of all the prevalent white knighting.

[–]eatingcheetos 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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Thank you for this! Restored my faith in this sub.

[–]3 Endorsed ContributorSkorchZang 16 points17 points  (21 children)

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Congratulations on your hard-won insight. Very worthwhile.

In parallel with this, I would also consider why, as a man, you still feel obliged to bow to feminist scarecrow words and apologize for yourself, to wit: sexism, misogyny, etc.

Misogyny is simply the fair recognition that all women deserve for their preponderantly shitty behavior. It is a fine thing, a masculine tradition found across cultures as old as the earth, and it deserves appreciation and cultivation.

If the blue haired chicks have successfully planted doubts in your mind that prevent you from accepting the above right now, then just remind yourself how women themselves respond to misogyny (by spreading their legs), and who the worst misogynists on the planet are, always have been, and always will be (women themselves).

[–]cdx75xmx[S] 16 points17 points  (5 children)

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To clarify, when I condemn "misogyny", I'm not condemning the word as it is used by feminists - I am condemning hatred of women, the literal definition. Feminists use "misogyny" to mean anything they don't like, and of course I'm not ashamed to hold views they would incorrectly describe as misogynistic.

If you've swallowed the red pill fully, there is no reason to hate women. Women are what they are, and they are what they are for good reason. If you can't accept that, it's your problem for holding blue pill expectations of them.

[–]whowhathuhumm -4 points-3 points  (4 children)

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If you've swallowed the red pill fully, there is no reason to hate women.

This is an incorrect assessment on both counts and it's not born out of blue pill expectations. Chalking shit behavior up to being in their nature doesn't mean reviling said shit behavior is wrong or bluepill. Understanding motivation doesn't necessitate accepting or blowing off bad behavior, which is a recipe for being a doormat.

[–]cdx75xmx[S] 18 points19 points  (2 children)

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Reviling the natural tendencies of women doesn't get you anywhere. You can be pissed at things you can't change if you want to be, but I see it as a waste of energy.

[–]1 Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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Amen brother.

[–]soulracer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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That seems to be hardest truth for new people to actually swallow. This is because it's easier to be angry at what you don't like than changing yourself to successfully adapt to it. Enlightenment is the easy part. That's the realization. It's what you do with it after, day in, day out that the real hard work.

[–]steadymotion 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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But even still, if you don't tolerate bad behavior in women, it doesn't mean you have hatred for women. Hatred for women in general is senseless. Hatred for a woman who kills your family, that makes sense.

[–]stevince 20 points21 points  (14 children)

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I don't think hes bowing to feminists in this posts, I just think hes stating that there's no point in hating women for doing what is in their nature, in the same way there's no point in hating a dog for killing a cat, its in his nature

Once a man can accept that, his outlook on women will become more positive as a whole

[–]3 Endorsed ContributorSkorchZang 5 points6 points  (13 children)

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Quite. And I would like to bring that desire for positivity (i.e. being a nice guy, in the end) into some question & perhaps even disrepute with you.

Nature's inherent amorality does not absolve the dog who killed the cat from being shot or poisoned in retribution for his act by the pissed off boy who was, perhaps, the cat's owner.

You and I understand that his act of retribution will not teach dogs not to kill, but the boy doesn't give a fuck, he is not a nice boy and he won't be easily placated by our reasonable platitudes; I put it to you that he is fundamentally right.

[–]weekendtane 7 points8 points  (9 children)

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Your thesaurus is leaking

[–]eatingcheetos 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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Stop using words big words

[–]weekendtane 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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ok

[–]foooow 1 point2 points  (6 children)

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Which word(s) did you not understand?

[–]weekendtane 2 points3 points  (5 children)

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I understood them, but a lot of these words are awkwardly used and some (disrepute) are just plain wrong. Signs of somebody trying to sound smart.

[–]foooow 0 points1 point  (4 children)

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I see, so you are a different type of grammar police officer. You give tickets to people who don't want to sound like a peasant?

[–]weekendtane 0 points1 point  (3 children)

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No just people who use words incorrectly to seem superior. I'm sorry if I have offended you, buddy

[–]foooow 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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people who use words incorrectly to seem superior. < sorry if I have offended you, buddy

I'm pointing out that you seem like you were offended by a post who was, as you say, "using words incorrectly to seem superior". He was doing no such thing, yet you reacted by trying to shame him.

You tried a form of bullying but you just ended up exposing yourself as insecure about your vocabulary. When's the last time you cracked open a book?

[–]weekendtane 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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Whats a book? Perhaps you could sugggest a good one about how the holocaust didn't happen

[–]icyhot39 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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Thank you, I made the same point but it fell on deaf ears.

[–]soulracer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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The problem with the analogy is that you introduce the 3rd character. There are only men and women, so only the dog/cat, scorpion/frog. You're basically saying you're hoping a god, in your analogy the boy, punishes women for their bad behavior. There is no boy to protect us.

[–]icyhot39 3 points4 points  (2 children)

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So, now that you're Red Pill, women get a free pass to do whatever they want? By what standard should we hold them accountable? Have they no accountability?

Blue Pill mysogyny stems from a lack of understanding, or a refusal to accept, the nature of women.

Jesus Christ. You make it sound like it's misogyny if we hold women to a standard of expected behavior (our own standard that is).

To be somewhat fair, I partially agree with you. However, natural tendencies do not excuse bad behavior. Men are more aggressive (testosterone) than females, does that excuse us for raping and beating our wives?

The question then becomes, what is reasonable behavior for women (and men)? And by what standard is it measured? Personally, I'm a fan of Ayn Rand's 'rational self-interest' argument, but it has its weaknesses.

[–]cdx75xmx[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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Jesus Christ. You make it sound like it's misogyny if we hold women to a standard of expected behavior (our own standard that is).

"Misogyny" has been so overused and misused by feminists that it's understandable to have a reflexive/defensive reaction to it. To clarify: I am using the literal definition, which is hatred of women.

Holding women to the wrong standard isn't misogyny by this definition, but repeated disappointment from holding women to the wrong expectation can definitely lead to it, and has for many of us.

I agree that there are general moral standards that should apply to both men and women equally, but each gender also has it's unique standards. Hyper-feminine behavior and hyper-masculine behavior both risk violating moral standards, but that's not what TRP is concerned with. All women are hypergamous, but not all women have personality disorders, ya dig?

[–]icyhot39 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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Hyper-feminine behavior and hyper-masculine behavior both risk violating moral standards, but that's not what TRP is concerned with.

Are you sure?

[–]RedPillsHere 2 points3 points  (5 children)

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This is not to say that women are less "noble" or "virtuous" than men, it is to say that they are different and that holding them up to a standard incongruent with their nature is unfair to yourself and to them.

What you said here is contradictory. They are different because they are less noble and virtuous. It's just in their nature so we shouldn't hold it against them for being less noble and virtuous.

[–]vaker 2 points3 points  (4 children)

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The hamster is strong in OP.

You've been holding women up to a male standard.

Let's hand out pussypasses everywhere instead...

How about this gem:

women are rational actors. (Most) women are biologically programmed to find a mate with the greatest genes (alpha fux) and also secure a provider (beta bux).

Mindlessly following biological programming (that may not even be optimal in the current civilizational environment) is not the same as rationality.

It's sad that TRP got to the point where bluepill nonsense like this gets upvoted.

[–]cdx75xmx[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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Expecting women to be women isn't the same thing as handing out a pussypass. I don't expect women to help me move out of my apartment, back me up in a fight, or love me as I love them. I'm not going to hate them for not being like men, I'm going to acknowledge that my expectations for them must be different.

So apparently you hold women up to the same standard as men, despite their obvious differences. Do you get off on being constantly disappointed?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children)

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Nope I really think the OP has fully digested the pill.

[–]vaker 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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Hacking their instinct based behavior to your advantage = RP.

Excusing bad behavior from them and being a doormat = BP = OP.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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Listen to Black Phillip. He explains the concept well, the OP seems to have confused a lot of people. The book of pook and also the way of superior man also strongly address this.

The idea of hacking is manipulation and game. Accepting reality and self-improving (game usually is a part of this) is redpill.

The whole idea of the red pill is becoming realist about women. Yes women get away with shit. That's how it is. If you want to hold her to a male standard you Will be seen as a weak insecure bitch. Logically not fair just how it is. Control what you can control accept what you cannot.

[–]NoFatChicks88 1 point2 points  (10 children)

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Well said. I've always tried to let the beat-down guys know that it's not a woman's fault for choosing the better mate given the fact that they have the opportunity to choose.

We also have to acknowledge that men had just as big a part in cultivating this dating/romantic/sexual market into what it is today.

[–]3 Endorsed ContributorSkorchZang 1 point2 points  (9 children)

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No we don't have to religiously acknowledge equality everywhere, especially where it doesn't exist.

Just because some men perhaps participated during the genesis of the dating/romance industry from its inception and to the present, doesn't magically mean that men played an "equal" part in this, on par with the massively, disproportionately bigger part played by women in that area to this day.

[–]icyhot39 3 points4 points  (8 children)

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Well said. This whole post & comment section is reeking heavily of excusing women's bad behavior, because well, they can't help it, because well, they have a vagina. It's making me sick.

[–]MichaelKeaton 5 points6 points  (6 children)

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I agree. I can't every get over the whole "women do this shitty action that doesn't line up with the standard that you're holding them to but it's ok because it's in their nature"

Wrong.

It is never OK. It's in mens nature to have sex with as many females as possible. Does this excuse all cheating. Not at all. I expect every female to be able to identify these shitty behaviors (shit testing, etc.) and eliminate them. If they are unable to do so, they are an inferior person not worth my time.

[–]cdx75xmx[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

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Why do you choose to be mad at women for being women? Yes the scorpion stings, but it is its nature, don't let it on your back and cross the pond with it. My main point is that if you have the same expectations for women that you do for men, you are going to be disappointed. If you choose to continually be let down by, and even become hateful of, the way women are, then you are doing yourself a disservice and wasting your time and energy. I'm not mad when a woman acts like a woman, I expect her to.

[–]MichaelKeaton 2 points3 points  (2 children)

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But that's exactly my point. Men can have undesirable qualities that can be attributed to their "nature". I'm saying this is never an excuse since we aren't monkeys, but grown human adults capable of rational thought processes and logical application.

Men are more violent and aggressive creatures. Does this mean it's OK for them to hit other men and women when they get angry because it's in their nature? No.

I'm not saying I expect women to be physically strong or capable of all the things men are capable of, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say they should be able to identify immature, weak behaviours and stop them. The only reason they don't is because men tolerate them or in this case excuse them.

Btw, I don't necessarily hate women for these immaturities but I absolutely think of them as lesser creatures. In mind, there is no question that they are. I like to think of it this way - take any given action and apply it everywhere. If everyone were to do this thing that you are doing or handle this situation as you (general you) are, would the world the better off or worse off? (IE everyone shit tested people all the time). If the answer is "the world would be worse off" DON'T DO IT. The majority of stereotypically female actions, if done by everyone, would absolutely make the world a MUCH worse place.

[–]elevul 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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Agreed. This is something that bugged me a lot about TRP: this acceptance. Yes, women be women, but we're not animals, we're humans, with a goddamn brain. And the same way men are expected to behave and think rationally, women should be as well.

[–]MartialWay 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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If I were rational, I would be shacked up with an ugly girl that was thrilled to have me, instead of doing everything needed to bang an array of girls with perfects abs/asses/faces/tits. My needs and desires aren't exactly rational either, so I can't fault them for having irational needs and desires too.

[–]MartialWay 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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You're a LOT better off learning how not to be full of shit and handle shit tests better. A shit test isn't just an opportunity for you to fail, it's a chance to succeed, to just blow her mind and get a level of worship, devotion, and sexual repsonse most men never dream of.

That's kind of the essence of TRP in general and this thread in particular.

[–]BluepillProfessor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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They are subconscious, mostly so good luck with that.

[–]cdx75xmx[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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I'm not "excusing" all women's behavior, just acknowledging that you can't change what hundreds of thousands of years of evolution have created. If you want to be mad at women for not being unicorns, go right ahead, you'll be mad your whole life.

[–]charlesbukowksi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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[–][deleted]  (41 children)

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    [–]signals101 17 points18 points  (21 children)

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    TRP ultimately gives license to everyone...to do whatever the hell they want whenever they want

    I think you've missed the point of the red pill.

    The red pill is about understanding yourself and others as we truly are not the bullshit fairy tale that's fed to everyone.

    There are definitely limitations and consequences, it's just that they aren't the ones you're told about.

    [–][deleted]  (20 children)

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      [–][deleted]  (4 children)

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        [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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          [–]aOs_Student 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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          We are the same on the inside soul wise but on the outside biologically we are different(Masculinity/Feminine). If you can't see the differences then there is no point in talking to close minded people like yourself.

          [–]elevul 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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          Men are driven primarily by reason and logic, women by emotion. What's weird about that?

          Is this a biological matter, or it's because of how men are educated?

          [–][deleted]  (9 children)

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            [–]aOs_Student 1 point2 points  (8 children)

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            What I'm saying is we do all the same things to different degrees.

            Except in Western society women can get away with more than men can...Double standards and what not. You are over generalizing something like the redpill which has many different degrees of how deep one can go...Hence the creation of MTGOW...

            [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                  [–]aOs_Student 1 point2 points  (3 children)

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                  I have to say, "double standards" and "women get away with more" sound like excuses to me.

                  Haha what? What planet are you from? I can easily find some examples...

                  Here's one example I found not too long ago, "21 year old woman has sex with 8 year old boy 50 times and gets two years in prison."

                  [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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                    [–]3 Endorsed ContributorSkorchZang 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                    You're clearly new. Here's how you say it in the local lingo:

                    "Man up, Shitlord!"

                    [–]aOs_Student -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                    Suck it up, princess.

                    Wow, so you think rape is okay? The fuck is wrong with you?

                    [–]OKJaded 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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                    Dig deeper. How does it all relate to the sexual marketplace and mate selection. Its about accepting reality and rather than accepting excuses, its making changes.

                    The Wall isn't a consequence. Its reality. A woman's actions simply dictate what her value is other than her physical looks. We have hundreds of thousands of years of evolution and mate selection hardwired into our DNA. To think that we (both men and women) can 'out think' all that ingrained behavior would be a folly.

                    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                      [–]barneygumbled 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                      I don't know why you're still confusing "excuse" for "explanation".

                      We can all overcome our biological programming, but it's difficult and requires strong rational thought, discipline and willpower, and this applies to men and women. TRP poses that women are more prone to emotional behaviour and thinking, meaning they're more likely to be swayed by instinct.

                      Note that I say "more prone", and "more likely" rather than using absolutes. Men are obviously prone to overly impulsive and emotional action.

                      I assume where the feminists take issue with us is that they conflate "more prone to emotional thought" with us saying something like "LOL teh womenz stupid!!11!".

                      I also think people across all gender-related ideologies have some deep-rooted issues with how they view sexuality - our assertion that women are more hypergamous is conflated with slutty behaviour, when it's actually nothing to do with that. As you rightfully point out, plate-spinning is encouraged here, and yet there is a lot of contradictory and yes, ultimately sexist negative judgment of hypergamy. This phenomenon is not logical and betrays a certain amount of bigotry.

                      To grossly oversimplify to make my point, men want to spread their seed far and wide, whilst women want as high status male as is possible to father their children. One can infer a lack of loyalty from both, but this subreddit isn't tailored towards both genders. We aren't here to explain anything to women, or open women's eyes. This is a space for men. Naturally, there will be much hamstering, but ultimately it's a place to take information that achieves results in modern reality, not try to change reality itself (like MRAs and feminists do).

                      The greatest value I find in this place is that it's probably the only space on reddit to discuss these ideas without universal derision. That's it.

                      [–]17 Endorsed ContributorWhisper 6 points7 points  (10 children)

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                      I actually find that TRP ultimately gives license to everyone, male or female, to do whatever the hell they want whenever they want and be completely justified in all the actions that show a lack of will power, as long as it's confined to sex, with no moral consequences whatsoever.

                      I think you somewhat misunderstand what TRP is meant to be. It's descriptive, not prescriptive.

                      In other words, it's not about "men should do this, women should do that"... it's about "people usually do this", and about "if you do this, this will be the result".

                      Now, this is an understandable confusion, because a lot of TRP advice is very prescriptive indeed:

                      "Don't let your date control the frame."

                      "Be outcome-independent."

                      "Lift weights"

                      "Don't wait until you're thirty to find a man for an LTR."

                      "Don't cut your hair short."

                      ...and so on and so on and so on.

                      But all of these things come with the assumed "... if you want success in the mating/sexual marketplace."

                      It's not a moral prescription. It's advice for achieving a generally desired result.

                      [–]cdx75xmx[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                      Bingo.

                      [–][deleted]  (8 children)

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                        [–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 0 points1 point  (7 children)

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                        And yet, so many posts are "You should..." "You are..." which goes directly against what you said.

                        "You should" has nuance in that it can be prescriptive of both morality and pragmatism. TRP endorses the latter. eg. "If you want to get bigger, you should lift weights." There is no moral statement being made here.

                        You're confusing that for moral statements, which is not what TRP typically promotes.

                        [–][deleted]  (6 children)

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                          [–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 0 points1 point  (5 children)

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                          That hasn't been my experience. Which sort of statements have you seen that you think are moral-guidance, rather than pragmatism?

                          [–][deleted]  (4 children)

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                            [–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 1 point2 points  (3 children)

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                            Certain behaviours are alpha, and others beta. How are these moral judgement? I'm not sure I understand what your complaints are about. Do you simply dislike the terminology?

                            If someone tells you that you need to lift weights to be a successful MMA fighter, that's not a moral judgement, it's instruction. That's all TRP is, a set of instructions for a desired outcome.

                            What else would a forum be about?

                            [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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                              [–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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                              I can't really find a coherent argument in anything you've said. The only thing coming close is that you think we're judgmental. Guilty as charged. Everyone makes judgments, we're just honest about it.

                              [–]aOs_Student 4 points5 points  (6 children)

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                              I will now prepare to be downvoted for having a somewhat different opinion from others.

                              Suck it up princess. Reverse psychology doesn't work here since people can easily see through your bullshit.

                              [–][deleted]  (5 children)

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                                [–]aOs_Student 5 points6 points  (4 children)

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                                So easy to read like a book...Are you a woman by any chance? Since your posts screams of hamstering.

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                                      [–]aOs_Student 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                                      How's that hamster of yours?

                                      I wouldn't know since I don't have one like you.

                                      What is yours telling you?

                                      [–]vaker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                      Ultimately, all of the things women do; hamstering, hypergamy, etc, etc is done by both genders equally. TRP is just a giant justification of all this activity

                                      What a sad sight. TRP has been overran by manginas. It's done. Put a fork in it.

                                      [–]NotMeUsee 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                      You're right some of the new members hate women. I basically stopped posting here because I always get cocky responses from what I can only assume are very young idealistic men. I dont mean that in a mean way. I believe in redpill but alot of whats going on here lately seems like "swag" to me. Its not appealing.

                                      [–]barneygumbled 0 points1 point  (7 children)

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                                      man and woman can peacefully coexist as they have for millennia.

                                      I skim-read your post and agree/disagree with bits and pieces on philosophical grounds, but this closing bit is just wrong.

                                      What feminism has dead right is that women have been far from "peacefully co-exisiting for millenia". Until the 60s probably, women have been treated like absolute shit. True, life for for the common man has been absolute shit in comparison to modern life also, but women were downtrodden on a daily basis worldwide until first and second wave feminism. Women were exempt from war, true. But then again, they were also the spoils of war.

                                      I've posted on a different thread recently about how the equality that feminism has helped achieve is a colossal wake-up call for beta men. This is where I'd agree with you. Fear and anger is the easy response to female sexual liberation. It is the response of the weak man. The response of those who are already alpha is a shrug of the shoulders and a pat on the head of these "strong, independent women". Those who are beta but want to become alpha (as I was and many of those who come here are) have a lot of work to do.

                                      Before second-wave feminism, society and religion was carefully engineered to placate and pacify the cretinous beta masses. Give them a wife to fuck and a job to slave away at every day and they wont get angry and rebel. None of this exists anymore, modern society is a desolate fucking wasteland for the beta male. This is the perfect time for radical self-improvement and self-interest at least until you're in a position where you are strong enough to help others if you so choose.

                                      We can either choose to view gender equality with fear and suspicion, or view it as what it really is, a monumental (and in my opinion, almost exciting) shit-test where you can either agree and amplify (go with it and improve yourself to stay in the game), or ignore and opt-out (MGTOW).

                                      The modern woman, in a metaphorical sense, is like a child taking baby steps in the real world. It's only been about 20-30 years since they've had real freedom, and as a population they're behaving like spoilt infants. The optimist in me believes that as time passes they'll mature, and naturally slip into their gender roles...But this will take a lot of time - probably not in my lifetime.

                                      [–]foooow 1 point2 points  (6 children)

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                                      Until the 60s probably, women have been treated like absolute shit.

                                      I disagree with this statement. Maybe you can change my mind. Could you give me some examples of how they were treated "like absolute shit" and by whom were they treated that way? I don't think saying "society treated them like shit" is a legitimate answer as it implies that there's been some conspiracy by all men to keep women down for the mere reason that they are women.

                                      And if you do believe that "women were treated like absolute shit until the 60s", what happened in the 60s that changed that? What magically changed everything. Did the men who "treated women like shit" just wake up one day and say "hey, let's listen to the women we had never listened to before"?

                                      [–]barneygumbled 1 point2 points  (5 children)

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                                      Honestly, a cursory look at the history of human civilisation tells you that women have been treated as second class citizens from day one until second wave feminism.

                                      It's like denying that racial discrimination existed in America after the abolition of slavery.

                                      [–]foooow 0 points1 point  (4 children)

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                                      Was it too much to ask for you to give me some real examples of such second class citizenship that you describe as "treating them like absolute shit from day one"?

                                      Because if you can't do it, you won't mind if I say that you are full of shit?

                                      [–]barneygumbled 0 points1 point  (3 children)

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                                      In Ancient Greece, the cradle of democracy, women had similar rights and protection under law as slaves. In Athens they obviously could not vote (female suffrage or representation wasn't even an idea entertained anywhere until the early 20th century).

                                      The lot of women didn't change much after that in the world until feminism.

                                      These are facts, I'm not going to let TRP dogma cloud my knowledge of history.

                                      [–]foooow 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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                                      so "not voting" is "treating them like absolute shit since day 1"?

                                      You are full of shit and you got called out and could not defend your baseless accusation.

                                      I knew you were full of it, because you are just repeating some bullshit you heard on TV (like "cradle of democracy", you really like repeating buzzwords). The idea that all men would treat all women like "absolute shit" for no reason is more than ridiculous. You admit as much when the best example you can come up with given unlimited time and "all those examples you see when taking EVEN A CURSORY GLANCE at history" is "they couldn't vote". Guess what? Most people couldn't vote until very recently.

                                      This is not "treating them like absolute shit since day 1". Glad you agree.

                                      I'm not going to let TRP dogma cloud my knowledge of history.

                                      You don't need TRP for that since you have absolutely no knowledge of history.

                                      [–]barneygumbled 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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                                      Firstly, you've committed the schoolboy logical fallacy of taking one small part of my argument and portraying it as the major and/or only point of my argument. I can only conclude that you're very good in debate and so I don't think I need to treat you or your requests with any respect whatsoever.

                                      Secondly, I'm shortening my arguments using metaphor, read between the lines. You're a random prick on the internet, I'm not going to write you an academic essay because you're demanding one.

                                      When I say "rights and protection from the law similar to slaves" what does that say to you? A woman is beaten by his husband? Nobody gives a fuck. A woman is raped? Nobody gives a fuck. A woman tries to speak out about these things? Just beat her, who gives a fuck? A woman wasn't allowed to do anything other than get married and have children.

                                      If you don't consider this kind of treatment appalling, then perhaps reframe it into race. Replace woman with "black man", do you think they're being treated like shit? Post-slavery, pre-Civil Rights Movement black people were not treated like shit by society?

                                      Use some common fucking sense.

                                      I'm not saying that "The Evil Patriarchy" purposefully thought of ways to hurt women on a daily basis out of pure cruelty. I'm saying that the society as a population treated women like shit in comparison to men in general.

                                      [–]foooow 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                                      You have no knowledge of history and you making wild claims like

                                      a woman is raped. No one gives a fuck.

                                      Just exposes you for the imbecile that you are. Keep living in your fantasy world where for no reason males treated females like "pure fucking shit" - but never give me any concrete examples...because you can't...because you made up the claim in the first place.

                                      You've been called out for your bullshit - and instead of being honest and admitting that you are talking out of your ass, you continue to make wild, unsupported claims.

                                      Just saying something, doesn't make it true, no matter how many times you repeat it.

                                      You keep saying "society treats women like shit". Prove it. Give some real examples. We are all waiting.

                                      A woman wasn't allowed to do anything other than get married and have children.

                                      A woman? Which one? I want names. Who stopped her from "doing anything"? You can't just say "society". Might as well say "the jews" were keeping women down. You are a lunatic.

                                      [–]DarkSayed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                      You've been holding women up to a male standard.

                                      Exactly! Women are not men. They do not think or feel the way we do. They do not aspire to the same things we aspire to, do not uphold the same nations of honour and chivalry we want to uphold.

                                      And even when we fail to uphold to these noble values - and we fail most of the time - at least we know what we should be trying to reach.

                                      Women? They're women., they do their own thing. Just don't take them too seriously or put them on a pedestal, and most definitely do not hold them to the same standards you hold men to. Then you can be affectionate towards them like you would be affectionate towards a cat. You know a cat would happily eat your face if you died. Do you hate cats because of this? No, because you don't expect more of it. You just enjoy the fluffy little fucker for what it is.

                                      [–]TheeRyanGrey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                      Women are less noble. Honor is a male trait. This isnt a slight on women just kinda how it is.

                                      but I agree with everything else. Trp helps me love women for who they are.

                                      [–]the1andonlykt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                      I really enjoyed reading your post. Just wanted to thank you for sharing such a well-written and insightful piece.

                                      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                      Great post!!

                                      [–]Movonnow 0 points1 point  (4 children)

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                                      You mean that those things...hypergamy, beta bucks....are not something one should get angry of because it is natural for women?

                                      You mean that this is their nature and that they are imperfect. And that what's important is to understand what they really are?

                                      And you mean that we shouldn't hate them because we are expecting too much from them?

                                      I am a newcomer and it's hard for me to understand what you said.

                                      The more I read on TRP about girls lying, cheating, not being trustworthy, not being able to love unconditionnaly, the more it makes me feel sick about them and the more they disgust me.

                                      [–]PBRistasty 0 points1 point  (3 children)

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                                      Op's right on the money. Once you realize that women have thier own set of biological imperatives, that are in line with thier primary biological purpose, thier is absolutely no reason for that anger.

                                      I am extremely bitter about the number of years I wasted before finding this place, but not at women for being exactly what they are.

                                      [–]Movonnow 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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                                      And so why the fuck does every women blames us for our biological imperatives (polygamy for instance)?

                                      Why should we accept them while they doesn't accept us?

                                      All my life I searched for someone like me : with values and a sense of honor. Principles (like loyalty, not cheating) that they would stick at even if temptation were here....

                                      That means I will never find a woman like that. Oh my God. If I had knew before I wouldn't have taken things so seriously. I would not have put so much importance on the girls I dated. I would not have been bitter and angry because they weren't acting as I wanted them to act....It would have keep me away from a lot of pain and frustration....

                                      Actually, women are of no real importance. I mean, if they are not reliable, if I can not depend on them.....they are just....girls. Girls that I'm going to have sex with. They are not partners, counselors, they are not this one supportive person during the struggles that I thought all my life a true and GOOD woman was supposed to be.

                                      As for the nice guy I am (I'm healing myself) who wanted to be a GOOD man, I was also waiting for this GOOD woman. I would turn down sex with a gorgeous woman because she was not this GOOD woman. And then I would have sex with a girl who was not this good woman because I have some biological need and then shame myself because I should have waited for this one etherical and perfect partner who doesn't EXIST!

                                      Lord! Have I been wrong!

                                      [–]TheSKSpecial 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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                                      Why should we accept them while they doesn't accept us?

                                      You don't have to accept them, just know that to rail against them is an ultimately useless battle in our current society. They're not going to change as long as it's acceptable, so you can either stay mad or move on.

                                      That means I will never find a woman like that. Oh my God.

                                      You might be able to, just not in the West. You might be better suited heading to SE Asia, or Latin America, or any other country with a less feminized culture.

                                      In any case, don't dwell on the past too long. You can either move forward and shape up to take advantage of how things are today, stew in your anger, say "fuck these women" and go your own way, or go back to wishing upon a star for your dream girl to come (which you already know the answer to).

                                      [–]Movonnow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                      You might be able to, just not in the West. You might be better suited heading to SE Asia, or Latin America, or any other country with a less feminized culture.

                                      Actually I live in Europe and it's the same here : very feminized culture.

                                      And I think I'm going to go my own way. My dream girl? Fuck that. She doesn't exist. All I can wait from women now is a pussy to fuck.

                                      [–]BluepillProfessor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                      Old Married Guy here turning his marriage around every day after taking TRP and coming up on a year of improvements.

                                      Some of the so-called "misogyny" is proper and very necessary in order to knock woman off the pedestal society has placed them on. Reading all these stories about female behavior- Alpha fux, Beta Bux, Hypergamy, Divorce-Rape, and the incredible ability of women to "recover" after they leave the love of their life while the man is devastated she swings. These stories power my Alpha frame. But don't marinate in them to the point of anger or hatred towards women.

                                      This thread has argued women should somehow be able to control their shit tests. Let me assure you they cannot. My wife has almost as many professional and graduate degrees as me, including a law degree, and she throws these unconsciously all the time. She can only control it when well rested: Pissed off, a bit tired, just watch that bitchy, controlling attitude fly. When I maintain frame and laugh in her face while calling out her behavior for the shit test it is, she immediately becomes quiet and submissive.

                                      [–]ExamplePrime 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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                                      Quick heads up, you wrote The Frog said it was in my nature, not the scorpion

                                      Not finished reading yet...

                                      I would agree. Before I even found this subreddit I was coming to understand a lot of these truths myself and coming to terms with them has helped me see women in a different light

                                      A good light, but a different light

                                      [–]DumbDumbFace 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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                                      Quick heads up, you "put wrote."

                                      [–]ExamplePrime 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                      Ugh, so I did

                                      Was reading it at 4am

                                      [–]shamanbard -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                                      This ought to be stickied or even side-barred.

                                      [–]thevirtualme -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

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                                      Thanks for all your useful scientific information and well done on all the academic sources you have backed up all of your points with.

                                      This book might help you: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Delusions-Gender-Science-Behind-Differences/dp/1848312202