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[–]drewbaccha 35 points36 points  (1 child)

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Conflating strategy with manipulation can get pretty messy. It essentially boils down to the psyche of a victim vs aggressor. The idea that applying behaviors to get a desired outcome as manipulative are typically portrayed by a victim mindset. i.e. "he tricked me by doing X" Only the attending party can filter their experience according to personal gain. aka "he said, she said."

Is someone manipulative for applying strategy to achieve a desired outcome? Training a canine to not urinate on the carpet is an act of manipulation by the dog owner. However this action is not deemed as spiteful or cruel. A man applying methods to encourage desired behaviors from his partner however is deemed as an malevolent and destructive.

Where is the contrast in either strategy? Is manipulating a different species somehow less significant? The truth of the matter is that neither are morally different. Both sexes are manipulative by nature. A back and forth of strategies are applied by each sex in order to achieve a desired outcome.

I think the chief concern of women is the idea that they are being deceived. That the choices they have made are irrelevant to the machinations of a grand scheme that they cannot control or maintain. Such a feeling of powerlessness can be very frightening, and I believe that feeling leads to the vitriol that we see on the debates to the issue.

Men share in dread the idea of being fooled.

[–]LuciusExitius 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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I would say that its more manipulation for the animal because they don't know what you're doing. If I tell a woman that if she doesn't stop talking to her X then I am going to leave, that's not manipulation, she either falls in line or we break up. She has the choice whether or not to do the action. If she chooses too then we continue if not then we don't.

[–][deleted]  (3 children)

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[deleted]

    [–]diogopim 14 points15 points  (0 children)

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    To answer one of your questions: http://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1wwpqc/why_women_love_assholes_an_alternate_view/

    If you are interested in learning about TRP, read the side bar. Most doubts will be explained.

    [–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (2 children)

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    That guy was way too liberal with his use of the word "abuse." To hear him tell it, playing hard to get is "literally torturing someone." Sounds like someone needs to cut back on the melodrama.

    Women have been playing the game for as long as anyone can remember. Don't get your panties in a twist just because some men are finally picking up the ball... AND DUNKING IN YOUR FUCKING FACE.

    Game on.

    [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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    but women have no power so it's ok for them to use sex as a tool /s

    [–]Exsel 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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    Yeah, I called him out on it. Naturally, my comment was downvoted (I don't care about the downvotes, just pointing out how easily that BS gets accepted) and his reply to me was short on facts and rich on more histrionics.

    [–]lexsird 156 points157 points  (15 children)

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    I'm another that just subscribed today due to that white knight EMSK post and all the politically correct jagoffs that danced around it. I just had to see WTF was going on here to stir the weasels up to such a pitch.

    I'm 50 and we sure as shit didn't have this kind of information around back then. You just had to wing it and learn from your mistakes and others and hope you didn't end up road kill from a divorce.

    I lasted 13 years in a marriage then it blew the fuck up and put me in a hellish depression. Eight long years later from that horror show and I'm sick and tired of suffering. I think it's time for me to become a pimp mother fucker and get my rock n roll game back on.

    I figure I have two choices, two paths, one is to just accept my doom at this point in the game or find some empowerment. There isn't much empowerment for guys surprisingly in today's fucked in the head politically correct culture. But that fucking EMSK post whined so hard about the red pill stuff that I just had to take a look at it. Is this a powerup of information to get a guy's head back in the game with a fucking plan?

    From the gist I'm seeing that it's pretty upbeat considering how fucking dismaying the subject of dealing with an estrogen overloaded society can be. Circle the damn wagons, get a battle plan and fight back? Sounds good to me.

    I see I have a fuck ton of stuff to read by looking at the side bar. Here's to it.

    [–][deleted] 33 points34 points  (3 children)

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    You sound like you fit right in here. Welcome.

    [–]lexsird 2 points3 points  (2 children)

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    Thanks, and I hope I contribute something while here.

    [–]2 Mredpillschool 26 points27 points  (1 child)

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    Start with the Misandry Bubble. It'll put everything into context!

    And welcome!

    [–]lexsird 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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    I read most of it, I skim read things. Plenty I agree with and it's got some good points. It really spells it out how marriage is completely fucked here in the west which I agree, but as a person of (some) faith it's a super disturbing thing to see decimated.

    I'm lucky compared to some poor bastards when it comes to the devastation of divorce. We split the stuff in a civil manner and didn't use lawyers, because frankly, fuck lawyers, right? It was just emotionally wrecking because I believed that you marry, that's for life, one honors one's sacred commitments. I was emotionally invested and committed, I don't fuck around when I do something.

    I now have a Pavlovian response when I hear someone got married; "poor fool!" That was a good read and summed up things nicely and covered somethings I hadn't thought of.

    [–]P1r4nha 22 points23 points  (4 children)

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    Also subscribed today. I'm not a stranger to the TRP philosophies, but I got them from books about human behavior, the PUA scene etc.

    I would argue they helped me out of a two year long depression in which I fell after my then first girlfriend dumped me. Learning how people work (yeah, so I was shy and socially inept, what can you do?) and realizing the mental abuse I received from my ex changed my world.

    Reading the PC, high-voted "oh yeah, I love my girlfriend, I would never do anything like this to her." made me boil inside. Lucky bastards, I envy them for never having to experience the humiliation of being in the same room with your GF while she talks to her friends about another guy in a language you don't understand, but fuck them for judging me for not being all rainbows after these experiences. Or the "why can't these people just be themselves?" comments. Well how do you think we got these damaging experiences? "This sub is just for guys who were to shy as teenagers or are still hung-up about the girl who rejected them back in high school." That's probably partly true, and that's what we're changing in here. Go figure...

    I'm still too nice (women have even told me that to the face) but my confidence is at least not so low anymore and I'm no longer depressed. I got good at detecting most bullshit and manipulation from women, but also people in general. My social skills in general sky rocketed.
    Usually I can't be bothered with manipulation, I just ignore it and avoid people that participate in it, that includes me avoiding to be manipulative as well. Nevertheless I'm sure commenting on this sub will be interesting and I'm sure I will also get some downvotes once in a while.

    The EMSK post pointed out correctly that the strategies can be used for evil and they probably have, but I would argue that the educational experience is far more important to ignore this information in here. Moral judgments are up to you, people. The strategies are tools, but what you make with them is up to you.

    [–]FloggedPanda 8 points9 points  (3 children)

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    For the record, the red pill doesn't advocate against being nice, but gives suggestions on how to realize when others are taking advantage of your niceness (not exclusive to women, but usually). There is masculinity and fulfillment in being generous, but only from a position of respect. That's the difference between providing for your family or volunteering and... Buying expensive dinner/movies/flowers for a girl who "likes you as a friend."

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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    I think the key is whether you are being nice out of genuine affection or to get sex.

    Do not be nice to her if you want sex, do not call her beautiful to get sex. It gives the woman the power to use sex against you.

    Call her beautiful if you think she looks fucking beautiful.

    [–]P1r4nha 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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    I'm not sure "nice guys" do that on purpose. I claim that these guys rarely have the thought: Alright, what nice thing can I do to her today so she finally agrees on getting me to put it in?

    Instead they lack the tools to create attraction. A lot of it comes from confidence of saying "no" to her for instance. Calling your girl beautiful doesn't seem to be a problem in general, I'd say. Sure, there's the problem of dishonesty if you really just do it so she's going to have sex with you, but that's the only reason I wouldn't advise that.

    The problem of being "nice" is that if she realizes that you are totally uncritical in every way and just want constant "harmony" no matter what she does. It's going to be boring and you're a wuss for just satisfying her shallow need of getting some feel-good compliments regardless of what she does. Doesn't mean not to be supportive if there is an actual problem, but honestly, most people (not just women) whine about non-issues anyway. If you're the nice guy she can complain to all the time and you keep supporting her on these non-issues.. that is the problem with being nice. So don't be nice unconditionally and you should be fine avoiding the nice guy problem on a large extent.

    [–]RebootedMale 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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    Our stories are very similar. Hit the gym. I'm talking something like crossfit with a trainer that will really kick your ass and make your core hurt like hell 3x a week. You'll be glad you did, us older guys need it more than the younger guys. It changed my life.

    [–]Evesest 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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    Love the attitude. We are upbeat because there's nothing to be depressed about. As long as I'm not one of the pandering Benedict Arnold clown men who throw the rest of the gender under the bus, I'll be proud and happy.

    [–]JoeyJoeJoeShabadou 69 points70 points  (3 children)

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    For those wondering why "women control most communication channels".

    I work in radio. For ratings when we send out diaries for people to fill out (on which stations they listen to/for how long every day/ect), the only people who reply are women. Men sometimes do to, but 85% of the time it is women. This means that pretty much every radio station on the planet tries to cater to women so they can get those high numbers.

    A classic rock station's audience might be 70% men, but if only women fill out the diaries, then that's all we register as who is listening.

    [–]Sunshinelorrypop 43 points44 points  (1 child)

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    Your station needs to employ a statistician...

    [–]Ragu35 98 points99 points  (13 children)

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    Welcome to all the new guys.

    Let this be the first piece of advice to you. Read the sidebar material, then go on and sort by the top rated threads of all time and read those.

    That'll prevent you from asking questions that have been answered a million times.

    Other than that, congratulations on taking the first step.

    [–]TheRedPirate 41 points42 points  (9 children)

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    A word of advice for all the new people, if you are going to be active in this sub, please create a new account. There are people watching us and ready to shadow ban people that subscribe or comment on these threads.

    [–]2asd1100 11 points12 points  (2 children)

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    and before posting or arguing head over to /r/asktrp and post your questions.

    [–]100 Modbsutansalt 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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    ♂ Good on you for recommending /r/asktrp and pointing folks there. If you're new that is the place for you. We have an entire network now to help this sub remain on topic, which is "the discussion of sexual strategies in a culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men."

    [–]theDarkAngle 40 points41 points  (13 children)

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    I'm not really a red-piller (not that I don't agree with the strategies presented here, it's just not for me at the moment). But I'm willing to bet there's at least a few guys out there who wouldn't be here today if they hadn't found this place, so those of you fostering novel conversation and supplying useful information deserve a pat on the back.

    I honestly think that if Elliot Rodger had found this place instead of PUA and PUA-hate, he and his victims might still be alive.

    The "manosphere" (god i hate that term but whatever) as a whole is hitting critical mass, and it's not only improving lives but saving them.

    To me, TRP, the MRHM, and MGTOW comprise a sort of holy trinity of the new gender awareness.

    TRP is the rational response. These are the men who just do what needs to be done.

    MRA is the idealistic response. These are the guys who see any situation and think it could be made better.

    And MGTOW is the melancholic response. These are the guys who just accept things the way they are, and abstain from their expected role either as a rational choice or as a silent protest.

    All three are growing movements. The MHRM has the most supporters "on paper", MGTOW probably has the most practicers in total (many are not even familiar with these concepts, but are going their own way nonetheless), and TRP probably has the highest potential for near-future growth (though it is also the hardest for an outsider to comprehend given limited attention spans - rights activists and separatists are familiar concepts, whereas sexual strategy is unfamiliar and the name is cryptic).

    Obviously, these are broad generalizations and there's a fair degree of overlap, but I think the fact that downtrodden men can come to this larger community of loosely-connected "movements" and have this kind of a-la-carte menu for ways to deal is kind of awesome.

    Anyway, that's just my complimentary tip-o-the-hat. Cheers guys.

    [–]HighRelevancy 19 points20 points  (1 child)

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    TRP is the rational response. These are the men who just do what needs to be done.

    MRA is the idealistic response. These are the guys who see any situation and think it could be made better.

    And MGTOW is the melancholic response. These are the guys who just accept things the way they are, and abstain from their expected role either as a rational choice or as a silent protest.

    I like it this bit particularly.

    [–]Draki1903 7 points8 points  (3 children)

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    Jesus Henry Christos, you Americans love your abbreviations.

    [–]anonlymouse 1 point2 points  (2 children)

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    I honestly think that if Elliot Rodger had found this place instead of PUA and PUA-hate, he and his victims might still be alive.

    He was clinically depressed. Not some armchair psychologist diagnosing depression, but receiving medication and counselling for it. That's actually a common theme among these mass shooters/killers. It's unlikely that a philosophy based on logic would have helped someone who didn't have all their logical faculties.

    [–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

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    The responses to that EMSK post are so AWESOME. The majority of men WANT to be forever-betas, white knights in shining armour, "marriage material". And I can only scream with ectasy, "Oh yes!!". Please go ahead.

    Meanwhile, in TRP-land, GayLubeOil writes, "The twist though is that she chose to be with me. She left a very nurturing dude who drove sixty miles to her work to give her flowers. He would text her poems. His whole life was her. She left this guy for me. Even though I told her im a dick. Even though I read her some of my most controversial Red Pill posts. Even though I told her that im difficult and our relationship will be difficult and that a lot of people don't like me for some very good reasons.

    There are plenty of politically correct betas roaming around"

    :-)

    [–]Tripleberst 271 points272 points  (51 children)

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    I'm going to go out on a limb and make my first post here. I've been lurking this subreddit for the past couple of weeks. I found this place after a friend of mine and I were having a discussion and he made an off the cuff reference to taking the red pill while on the subject of male/female dynamics. It seemed that he was laying on the hints pretty heavy that he wanted me to come look at this place but he still denies ever knowing TRP theory. I've always been pretty beta, if not worse and in my short time of reading here I've gotten much more confident and can manage my own level of happiness. I haven't had a regular partner since high school and even that was short lived and unsatisfying.

    I can only ask that no one here change anything that they are doing because I don't know how much longer I could have gone on living like I was. This subreddit was the kick in the ass that I've been waiting for.

    Thank you.

    Edit - And thanks for the gold

    [–]sparkleselite 73 points74 points  (13 children)

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    Hey this stuff hit me like a brick wall too. If you apply the things you learn here and start getting in shape you will climb over that wall. This is a wall that many men in their life will never even see.

    [–]VelociReactor 14 points15 points  (12 children)

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    Women hit the wall and it's all over.

    Men improve themselves and climb over it.

    [–]randomtask2005 5 points6 points  (11 children)

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    Some choose to take the path of least resistance (i.e. Continue on like nothing is wrong). We choose to take the more difficult path because we can.

    We are just a different breed when it comes down to it.

    [–]Mechbiscuit 10 points11 points  (1 child)

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    Whatever someone else thinks of TRP, I have my own opinion and I find it helpful. A kick in the ass as you say.

    Before, I didn't really get my place. I didn't understand that people already have preconceived roles for who you are and in a way TRP has given me context and more meaning.

    I always had the attitude of "be honourable" and "don't be a coward". Now that I understand my destiny (for lack of a better word) is to be confident, to be assertive and that the world will give me what I want - it's attainable - if I just ask for it.

    I disagree with a number of things on TRP but "how to be masculine" is not one of them.

    It's funny that I have to read these things on an internet forum rather than discovering them from friends or fathers.

    [–]CallMeMrBadGuy 22 points23 points  (13 children)

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    I really wish I could introduce this to this one guy who is in major need of it. Seriously at this rate he's going to marry some divorced rejected 40 year old post-wall post-carousel broad like a chump. Though unfortunately he has no backbone and no interest in changing anything about himself for as long as Ive kinda known him

    [–]lachiemx 16 points17 points  (1 child)

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    Sounds like he is choosing his sorrows long before he experiences them

    [–]AlmostRP 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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    Oh yes. So many bad life choices have no immediate repercussions.

    [–]1Mikesapien 16 points17 points  (8 children)

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    He's making his own bed; let him lie in it.

    When he sees how comfy YOUR bed is, he'll wonder why his is so shit.

    [–]Draki1903 4 points5 points  (6 children)

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    That's not what a man does when he sees someone else unhappy.

    A man offers help and lets someone else be unhappy only after the help has been rejected.

    Yadda yadda Ghandi yadda yadda be the change in the world yadda yadda best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, second best time is now.

    [–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

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    "Nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come."

    [–]17 Endorsed ContributorJP_Whoregan 191 points192 points  (77 children)

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    These outside subs will never learn. For every "you go, white knight!" pat on the head they get from feminists and knights, there are 10 other currently sexually frustrated men reading the post (i.e., lurking) and going, "What's The Red Pill?"

    Haven't these fuckers learnt that there is no such thing as "bad publicity"?

    [–]Rehydrate 140 points141 points  (13 children)

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    It's funny how people swear that this place is the devil, but a lot of us have positively changed our lives for the better. Sorry that I started lifting, have increased my self-worth, confidence, and value as a human being with the plus that I won't let someone make me or treat me like their bitch. I just needed this place to give me a little wake-up call.

    At the end of the day, the core of TRP focuses on bettering yourself in all aspects of your life.

    [–]Sunshinelorrypop 49 points50 points  (2 children)

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    The reason why it's hated so much by women is not so much to do with men improving themselves, it's because trp teaching men not to become beta-orbitors.

    Orbitors are the self-esteem fix that many women need to function without having a complete breakdown. Without someone to whisper them that they are the victims and they can do no wrong, they face a very unforgiving world.

    This is what is scary to them.

    [–]dreckmal 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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    I wonder if the validation they get from men is different 'feeling' than that from the women in their social circle.

    [–]Sunshinelorrypop 10 points11 points  (0 children)

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    Of course it has a ton more meaning to them. Women are always giving false compliments to each other as a kind of group therapy.

    A man hanging on her every word without her offering anything in return is a much bigger boost to her ego.

    [–]Dream4eva 9 points10 points  (0 children)

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    Apparently getting regular sex as a female and being somewhat confused about a relationship you're in because you lack the agency to seek out what you want is somehow tantamount to the rejection, confusion and depressions males face because everything in life they were taught about women is wrong.

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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    But you can't just hog all those alimony payments to yourself you sexist shithead /s

    [–]atworknewaccount 84 points85 points  (1 child)

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    I originally came here after reading some highly up voted feminist dribble that ended with basically "and that's why trp is bad". My immediate thought was " I need to get in on this". This emsk post is exactly the same thing.

    [–]rockymountainoysters 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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    So often in life, philosophy that attracts the most social villification is the very stuff that deserves a closer look because there's some truth in it.

    The truly worthless philosophies end up mostly ignored, and rarely provoke the kind of hyperemotional backlash we saw yesterday on EMSK.

    [–]Cross_of_Coronado 12 points13 points  (11 children)

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    Feminism is our cancer and we are theirs.

    [–][deleted]  (8 children)

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    [deleted]

      [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (7 children)

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      The way I see it, feminism is over. Woman are treated pretty damn fucking equal. The woman that traditionally would call themselves feminists don't anymore. THEY ARE ENJOYING THEIR EQUALITY.

      Whiney stupid bitches still use the term as a cover for their hate of men. They like to cover their hate with a thin veil of intellectualism. We should try to be above this and simply look out for ourselves.

      That is what TRP is about, self-interest. Let's not devolve into group-think and start crusading against some "cancer" that doesn't even exist in a tangible form.

      There are some good woman out there, and some you need to avoid.

      [–][deleted]  (6 children)

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      [deleted]

        [–]Endorsed ContributorWe_Are_Legion 6 points7 points  (6 children)

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        aw, you guys are giving it all away...

        Its not like we want to stop them...

        [–]17 Endorsed ContributorJP_Whoregan 63 points64 points  (5 children)

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        For every supplicating blue pill beta we pull off the market for post-wall, 35+ with kids females who ride the carousel in their 20's (who are depending on a slew of betas to choose from), the more we fuck up the feminist ideal. They (foolishly) thought they could "change the game" in their favor with no reaction from men. We seek to wreak havoc on that ideal.

        [–]Xiamon 6 points7 points  (2 children)

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        I think he means that by letting people know that their publicity is feeding the red pill's growth, the publicity may not be as heavy if they wisen up to that fact, so don't inform them...

        [–]NO_LAH_WHERE_GOT 14 points15 points  (0 children)

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        Humans have been terrible at wisening up to these facts for millenia. Seriously, philosophers before Christ were complaining about how we never learn. We never learn. (as a species and as large groups, not as individuals)

        [–]PM_ME_BOOTYSHOTS 9 points10 points  (0 children)

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        They're always going to want us as the enemy so that they can point at us and do the whole "I'm not like them" schtick.

        [–]Frankly_George 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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        They (foolishly) thought they could "change the game" in their favor with no reaction from men.

        They honestly have no understanding of cause and effect. It isn't so much foolishness as much as being emotionally driven with only a semblance of logic in their actions or words. They changed the game.

        The red pill is simply the equal and opposite reaction to that change.

        [–]16 Endorsed ContributorTRPsubmitter 55 points56 points  (3 children)

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        This is a highly uprated and gilded comment in that thread by /u/Bananafarmers

        I am a woman, and I just got out of a relationship where I was always left guessing, where I was always "almost" the girlfriend, where I couldn't get anything right. My emotions were always irrational, my worries were always unfounded- until, of course, I finally discovered the other "almost" girlfriends last week and finally broke it off literally yesterday. Anyways, I am not really adding anything good to this, but I was sitting here feeling lonely, sorry for myself, and REALLY shitty about men in general (superficial amoral users)- and then I read this. Thank you for making me feel better about men, and helping me figure out how to take care of myself better in the next relationship. I won't settle for anything less than open, loving equality again. It is great to have a reminder that you guys exist.

        • I AM A WOMAN! PAY ATTENTION TO ME!

        • Her comment pretty much confirms RP theory

        • And while she is "thanking" OP for making her "feel better", she is NOT fucking OP. She fucked the RP ex-bf. RP theory confirmed.

        Again, cut away all the bullshit. We are here for sexual strategy. Noting more. We aren't here to make girls "feel better about men, and helping them figure out how to take care of themeslves better in the next relationship". That's Beta Bucks.

        [–]bananinhao 26 points27 points  (1 child)

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        I had never heard of this before today, glad I know now.

        [–]Evesest 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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        Stick around. It's not a theory and it need not be proven. We are all far better equipped than the average man who is born into guilt and copes with it by throwing the rest of us under the bus.

        One cannot be a man until he learns to stop disassociating himself with the rest of us.

        [–]applestothehead 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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        "TRP is not a social movement aimed at changing society, TRP is about empowering the individual man to be the best person he can possibly be."

        This is too true.

        TRP critics use this sub as a scapegoat for their own accountability and failures, attempting to coalesce an idea of many relationship ills that are, supposedly, caused by TRP philosophy.

        The level of hostility this sub experiences is quite enlightening: Never have I seen an idea, that empowers men to improve their being, trigger such vitriol littered with fallacies.

        Seduction is generally slimy and a much easier target to criticize from a beta-feminist agenda, but their motives are clear. TRP touches upon too many truths that an excessive number of individuals would rather disregard.

        I think this surge in membership will mark the point of time that turns this introspective philosophy into a mainstream idea- hopefully, maintaining its core ideas without too much dilution.

        [–]mrniceguy100 18 points19 points  (0 children)

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        I am thrilled to see more redditors joining TRP. I joined only about a month ago, but it has saved me from my Beta ways.

        [–]dreckmal 8 points9 points  (2 children)

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        It is worth mentioning that however popular TRP gets, it will NEVER be accepted by the mainstream.

        We could, we just don't give enough of a shit to wrap it in a pretty pink bow, like the OP from that EMSK post did.

        [–][deleted] 32 points33 points  (4 children)

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        I'd say straight up that I believe in Unicorns and True LoveTM. Even considering today's superficial society.

        It's a shame that most women don't really believe. They prove again and again that men are the more romantic sex.

        Grand romantic gestures, poetry, epic novels about romance... all by men.

        The most romantic thing a woman has ever done for me was cook me bacon without being asked to. I married that woman.

        [–]colovick 10 points11 points  (0 children)

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        Well, on behalf of all the men here, I thank you for setting the bar high for us.

        [–]1xwm 2 points3 points  (2 children)

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        Boobs, Blowjobs, and Bacon. The three B's that make everything right with the world

        [–]ThanksRoissy 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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        I think sex and sandwiches has it's merits as well, but for some reason people don't like the SS.

        [–]1xwm 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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        Probably because of gluten free diets

        I'll still take the first S though.

        Maybe replace it with Sex and Steak....Everyone would love the SS then

        [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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        [deleted]

          [–]VarsitySlutTeamCpt 13 points14 points  (1 child)

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          Hah we might get 60k subs by the end of tommorow, thanks to whomever started that shit I guess

          [–]FuriousMouse 10 points11 points  (0 children)

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          Having read the EMST post I have to say; it is very likely the guy knew exactly what he was doing.

          His post is like describing candy to someone who has never had any, and then telling them to stay away from candy because it is low in nutritional value and not good for you. But if does make you wide awake and gives you a lot of energy to enjoy life.

          Surprise, surprise, everyone wants candy!

          [–]insane_psycho 31 points32 points  (9 children)

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          While i enjoy the fact that their is yet another surge in membership (and appreciate the irony that it came due to someone mentioning how wrong it is) Its going to be important to keep the sub on track.

          Seems like good subs always go to shit after they get too many members and id hate to see that happen here. There have been a little too many "revenge-porn" esque posts recently and i hope quality doesnt deteriorate.

          On another note, thank you mods for all the thankless work you put in.

          [–]2 Mredpillschool[M] 56 points57 points  (0 children)

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          Not on my watch!

          [–]LineOfCoke 14 points15 points  (6 children)

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          guys getting the anger out of heir system is part of the process. some guy get here so furious and disillusioned wih women they cant evn think about having any sort of ammcable relationship with women, until they bleed the anger out of their systems. its sorta like prial screaming or breaking things as forform of therapy.

          [–]oldschoolmailman 11 points12 points  (0 children)

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          The post in question was a pandering circle jerk, clearly written to please a large group of subs that already hate on TRP. The sub it was posted is a pathetic joke. It's advice for manhood is fucking absurd, often amounting to shit like "every man should know how to mail a letter". Thanks.

          These "oh shit, this post was hugely upvoted" events happen all the time. The crowd who cares about this will seek validation through upvotes. The redpillers will continue to do what we do- get better.

          [–]let_terror_reign 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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          When I read this, I got the same strong feels I got when the membership increased in fight club. TRP might be a huge illusion based on curve fitting in the end (my greatest fear) but I'm hoping it's accurate and plowing on. I now understand where I once felt confusion, see progress where I felt fear. Different culture and different background. TRP holds something of value for nearly everyone.

          [–]uvajay 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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          I rarely login to my account, but I jumped on just to add to the membership spike. I've been lurking this sub for a while.

          I forgot how I stumbled onto this subreddit, but I realized a lot of the views line up with my own. I was served a valuable lesson a few years ago and happened to find my way here.

          A few years ago, I made the mistake of a of "falling in love" with a gold-digging parasite. Almost immediately after getting married, she started withholding sex, trying to spend all of my money, and just generally acting like a cunt ... especially towards my family. She was in school, had no money and quit her job, drove a Jeep that I bought, and carried a credit card I gave her (with a low limit thankfully). Shit kept going downhill and I suspected she was cheating. I was right ... so I divorced her. Fortunately, I kept all of my assets separate and protected. It took her a while to realize how screwed she was and she wasn't getting shit. She then had the audacity to try and blackmail me for $100k. (We were only married 8 months). I was actually being civil up until that point, so I responded to her threats by throwing all of her shit in storage and changing my locks. I got my Jeep back, too. Oh, and no kids ... despite her trying to 'have an accident'. This is the cliff notes version ... the whole story is beyond insane.

          So, I've reverted to my original school of thought. Live life for your own happiness, not solely to please others. I worked hard and spent a lot of time earning 2 degrees and a doctorate. I built and sold a successful business before I was 30 ... and I almost pissed all of that away by throwing all my trust into someone who just wanted a payday. I'm still learning something new when I read this subreddit. As I learn, I hope my experiences can contribute back.

          Also, I don't want to come across as someone that hates women. I had to learn a lot of lessons from dealing with an extremely shitty person. TRP has helped me understand some of the "why?" questions I had.

          [–]AdmiralVonJackass 18 points19 points  (4 children)

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          Holy shit man, last time I glanced the sub was at 42k.

          [–]16 Endorsed ContributorTRPsubmitter 29 points30 points  (3 children)

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          It didn't jump that much. It was at 57k I think yesterday and over 59k now. That's still a big jump for a medium sized sub.

          The insane thing is that the post over there was awarded 52 reddit golds lol

          [–]1Mikesapien 33 points34 points  (0 children)

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          Nothing like a nice strawman bonfire.

          [–]theredpillager 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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          I've been sitting here browsing for three hours and the sub has grown tens of twenties every time I hit refresh. I am really looking forward to seeing the total number of new users resulting from the EMSK post. It's gonna be at or above 2k for sure.

          I should probably get some sleep...

          [–]MakeTheSexyTalk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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          Kinda feel like r/theredpill should all pitch in and buy this guy a lifetime of gold.

          "Thanks for getting the word out!"

          [–]ultrasuperthrowaway 37 points38 points  (1 child)

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          I am a middle class average American man who changed my life with RedPill knowledge.

          I WAS pigeonholed into being a trash worker all my life until REDPILL logic.

          There are MILLIONS of us and we will no longer accept our role as meaningless male providers and bitches to society.

          Stop letting society tell you what woman you can and cannot have relations with!

          WE WILL OVERCOME MEDIOCRITY AND DISPOSABILITY

          [–]theonlymikeonreddit 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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          I read that earlier, I couldn't even finish. Its like he wants to be a victim, he acknowledges that women use sexual strategy over us but we shouldn't because its wrong. Fuck that beta shit, I have a girlfriend that does as I wish, acknowledges that I am in control of the relationship, and likes it.

          [–][deleted] 37 points38 points  (32 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          It's a meme to hate TRP now, I think. Sort of like how Milhouse couldn't be a meme: TRP is allowed to exist here for a reason--to get men to drop out. It's not as if there aren't incentives already, but this sub is to serve as the inception point.

          You want the true redpill? Your corporate and government masters don't want stable families any more. They especially don't want you to have one. Stable families have passed the point of usefulness for them because having a strong family makes a man harder to control than just being a guy who bangs whomever he wants and thus can be moved to any place in the machine where he best serves his purpose.

          Want the true redpill? Live with traditional morals, and keep your eyes wide-fucking open. Observe, but don't engage. Pass through.

          That means that if you want a wife and kids, you find a girl, vet her hard, and do it the way they did it back in the day. Reading here for help controlling behavior and keeping a strong relationship is fine, but don't be a curl-bro with your red pill exercises, build functional strength and put it to use.

          At this stage in the game, if your protoplasm makes it to the next round, you've beaten the system. It's currently designed to breed you out.

          [–]3rdweal 22 points23 points  (15 children)

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          Do you have any evidence that a married father is harder to control than a bachelor? Doesn't having a wife and children to support and a mortgage to pay make you easier to manipulate in terms of distributing your wealth and labor?

          [–]MagicGainbow 16 points17 points  (1 child)

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          That and a man with wife and kids spends far more than a single man.

          [–]super-nsfw 13 points14 points  (0 children)

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          Holy shit can I ever confirm that....65% disposable income --> 5% disposable income.

          [–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (7 children)

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          I get where you're going, and it's valid, but here's how I see it different: if you're a married man, you have a wife that may not even need to work. That's one less worker, one less cog in the machine.

          If you're a married man, you're eventually going to protest against overtime, and so (especially) is your wife. That's two cogs with fewer teeth. Both of your are less useful to the machine as labor.

          If you're a married man and you have kids, you (hypothetically) should actually give a damn about what's going on in your community. This means standing in the way of certain vices. You're also (let's face it) not going to consume as much media or porn, and you and your wife pooling assets into a household actually offsets a lot of extra consumption.

          If you're a married man, you're going to fight for a future for your kids, who (believe it or not) actually stand a good chance in competition with with the kids of the elites, and can take their lunches because the children of nobility are seldom well-suited to govern (Marcus Aurelius).

          Are you tied down to a shitty job? Yes, if you have a shitty, materialistic wife and you're not an entrepreneur. Don't have a shitty wife though, and be an entrepreneur.

          TLDR; the true redpill is oldschooled.

          [–]through_a_ways 14 points15 points  (0 children)

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          I've read multiple stories about places like food co-ops and organic farms getting raided by SWAT teams for silly fucking reasons.

          The government (partially through collusion with private companies) don't want people growing their own food, living off the grid, becoming self sufficient. They lose tax money, companies lose profits, etc.

          Having a traditional wife is part of that narrative, and is also disadvantageous to big businesses because:

          1) less need for modern products, as you have a wife taking care of shit at home

          2) fewer workers, wages go up, since the women are at home

          3) fewer people buying useless shit, profits go down, since women buy more useless shit than men.

          Clothing markups are some of the biggest, as they're all made for cents in child sweatshops and then sold through brand names. Guess who buys more unnecessary brand name clothes.

          [–]3rdweal 3 points4 points  (5 children)

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          If you're a cog in the machine, then both you and your wife are going to need to work in order to scrape at the lifestyle portrayed as ideal.

          Not to attack you personally but if you think a typical married man is going to consume less pornography, I don't think your vision of marriage is congruent with what is he norm these days.

          If the government was not interested in stable families, then why are there so many tax breaks for couples and parents?

          [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          If you're a cog in the machine, then both you and your wife are going to need to work in order to scrape at the lifestyle portrayed as ideal.

          Exactly. You have to find a girl that doesn't share that ideal. My dad did really well with my mom because she's fine with quitting work to raise a family and living in a smaller house with a lower mortgage and driving a used car.

          Not to attack you personally but if you think a typical married man is going to consume less pornography, I don't think your vision of marriage is congruent with what is he norm these days.

          Once again, the problem is with what the 'norm' is. If you have a marriage like my folks, you gon' be fuckin' on the reg.

          If the government was not interested in stable families, then why are there so many tax breaks for couples and parents?

          Except family courts. But really, you got me with the tax breaks thing. I don't have an answer for that one.

          [–]3rdweal 1 point2 points  (2 children)

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          I think if the ideal sort of marriage you were talking about was widely available, we'd be mostly agreeing here. Sadly such situations seem to be increasingly difficult to come across, and I don't see that changing any time soon.

          [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

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          It's not, but if it comes your way and you pass it up for spinning plates, you don't win.

          [–]rpkarma 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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          Yes I do. Because that's what I want. I respect those who make other choices than I do, as long as they know what they're doing.

          [–]LS_D 3 points4 points  (2 children)

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          married men often have mortgages aka 25 years 'commitments' to keep paying the bills! that's why banks love 'marriage'

          [–]DafyddBreen 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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          Mortgages are only necessary in the US since women entered the workforce and since 1933 when the gold standard was completely abandoned.

          Now there is a surplus of workers desperate for any scraps available. Wages have remained somewhat static, whereas the price of housing has skyrocketed, partially due to the housing bubble but mostly due to the rampant hyperinflation caused by derivatives trading, fractional reserve banking and quantitative easing (banks inventing new money and loaning it out to governments at interest, who then give that money straight back to smaller subsidiaries of the larger banks free of charge).

          The federal reserve bank is a privately owned corporation.

          This is all by design.

          [–]1 Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 2 points3 points  (3 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          You want the true redpill? Your corporate and government masters don't want stable families any more. They especially don't want you to have one. Stable families have passed the point of usefulness for them because having a strong family makes a man harder to control than just being a guy who bangs whomever he wants and thus can be moved to any place in the machine where he best serves his purpose.

          I'm really surprised to read this here. This is what it all boils down to. It never was about liberation of women or the oppression of men, it never was a about left or right. It always was and is about power and and control via collectivism.

          Thanks for restoring a little bit of hope for sanity in me.

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

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          I'm not the only one. Neither are you.

          [–]LineOfCoke 4 points5 points  (5 children)

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          as a more traditionalist catholic member of trp im inclined to agre here. secular modern government hates anything that might split a persons loyalties like game lyand religion. they dont want youloyal to children, and they dont want you nelieving or thinking anything they didnt approve of first.

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

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          I was raised protestant, but I think I"m going to end up either hardline catholic, or mormon, just because of how capable both systems are at preserving families.

          Liberal Catholics are the worst though. I've seen some crazy hamsters there, and I think you'll agree.

          [–]Endorsed Contributorvacuu 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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          The destruction of traditional families and morals have indeed been accelerated intentionally. But this is only natural: ignorant and isolated cultures were easy targets for the more advanced and predatory cultures. If we are all made to be worker bees and no one has a father and therefore don't understand anything about the world, then that benefits the few who do have history, knowledge, and control.

          But this was inevitable, and temporary. It's hormesis on humanity overall, which will cause us to be better than before. TRP is a good thing, it's a logical response to the changes that are occurring. It's harsh truth. It kills love, families, and reproduction. We're going to keep pushing forward until TRP is widely known and used, and at some point another adaptation will take place, because TRP is not acceptable. Women will adapt and become desirable again, and those things that TRP killed will start coming back in improved forms. But there will be pain first.

          [–]PrismaticFire 8 points9 points  (7 children)

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          This is slightly off topic, but is it possible to find when you first subscribed to a subreddit? I think it would be really interesting to know when I first subscribed to /r/TheRedPill and see how I've changed since then.

          [–]Endorsed ContributorWe_Are_Legion 8 points9 points  (5 children)

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          Remember a significant event from then and date it.

          [–]Ragu35 2 points3 points  (3 children)

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          That's how I remember it. Day after Christmas 2013 I subbed.

          [–]1kulrajiskulraj 4 points5 points  (1 child)

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          I came in November of 2013. The community felt more close back then. Now it's become broad. Not a bad thing though.

          [–]FRSTKZ 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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          There were 12,000 people here when I found this place. I was reading /r/seduction and some chump was complaining about rper's taking pua to the extreme, and how it was hurting the pua community.

          [–]CapitalG 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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          Self improvement is a hell of a gift you can give yourself.

          [–]Squabbles123 7 points8 points  (4 children)

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          I just found this sub and I'm still trying to figure out exactly how to take in and use the information here, so far I'm still a bit confused, but I'll tell ya, I'm fuckin sick of women ignoring me.

          [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (3 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          Here is a step by step guaranteed way to either 1) Get women to notice you or 2) Make you stop caring about them not noticing you.

          1) Lift.

          2) Read (the rational male and no more mister nice guy if it pertains to you)

          3) Eat better and learn how to make your own food. To be a man you need to know the work that goes in behind what you consume, in my opinion.

          4) Approach different strangers (women and men) every single day. Have conversations constantly to tackle any anxiety you may have.

          5) Find a couple new hobbies that you can do with a male friend or by yourself. I've picked up swimming, bodyweight fitness, hiking, bike riding, cooking & grilling, and learning a language since I fully swallowed TRP.

          6) Try to tackle an extremely hard goal that takes a lot of time. For me it was 90 days of nofap. For you it could be building a canoe, or polishing your coin collection, or just about anything.

          I still haven't gotten laid since I found TRP but I am so much happier. I used to think about killing myself because of how fucking sad my life was. Now all I can think about is all the new shit I should do every day! If I could find a new job my life would be at the best point it's ever been at.

          [–]JustTwoBrothers 78 points79 points  (85 children)

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          I'm going to chime in with what NOPE_CHARLES_TESLA said, in that those little statements that seep out like "women control most communication channels" make this place seem a whole lot more crazy than it actually is.

          Come on man, you know thats not true. There's no female conspiracy to make TRP a pariah, but what there are is a whole lot of naive people. We don't need these "us vs. them" statements man.

          [–]CptDefB 96 points97 points  (1 child)

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          I'll bite... if only to point out the difference between controlling the communication channel (they don't), and having the channels of communication pander mostly to them (more accurate).

          Look around you. The vast majority of shit on TV is probably of little interest to men. Case in point being day time TV which is geared towards housewives who are likely the only people actively watching TV during the day. Then, look at the programming, Oprah, soaps in general, the View, etc. While not day time TV per se, have you ever watched an episode of Coronation St? The men on that show are absolutely retarded as far as women are concerned, as is the majority of males in syndicated publications. Homer is a great example. Is he manly to you? But it's funny. You can go through a ton of the evening time shows as well, and you'll see that masculinity isn't something that's promoted, praised or even looked at in a positive light. At best, the man of the house is the butt of the majority of jokes... Married with Children is another that comes to mind, as everyone knows Al Bundy got shat on regularly, and that was part of the point of the show.

          Saying women control media is naive. Men control everything. However, the message being put forward in media is misandrist in nature, especially as feminism has stepped to the fore. We're at the point now where it has been going on for decades... Married with Children and Coronation St are old. The indoctrination started before you were even born, same goes for me, and I would assume the majority of men here.

          I'll just continue to extrapolate... indoctrination has been going on for decades, family unit has been effectively broken up by women -needing- to work (it's not an option anymore, 1 average sized income can't do shit for a proper family), children look to their caregivers (mostly women), and the media they see (misandrist in nature) to shape their world view... now we have a bunch of "BP" men, wondering what the fuck is up with women, and TRP to explain it to them. We've all been lead astray by this shit, not just men, women as well. TRP can show you enough studies of how unhappy the general female populace is, despite having access to more resources than ever before, and having the agency to acquire as much resources as they possibly can, with no barrier by their gender (in fact, helped by their genes and the value placed on women in general).

          How is it they're so unhappy?

          Probably because they were taught to be men, and that's fucking with their feels as they realize that being a man isn't great when you lack a penis and testosterone. Similarly, a bunch of boys get sold up the river with Disney-esque notions that they take into adulthood with them (because few parents are dropping RP wisdom these days -- they do not have time to be parents, and this is the bigger issue) and wonder what the fuck all these Strong Independent Women are doing with their lives.

          Aaaand, now we're here.

          If you believe that the feminine imperative hasn't weaponized the media, then I really don't know what to tell you. It's important to remember that it's not necessarily women doing these things. Men. Control. Everything. Power has been consolidating for quite some time, so A FEW (relatively speaking) men control everything. An example... all sorts of industries have rules and regulations governing how they interact with the end user/consumer. An industry that's relatively void of these rules and regs? Cosmetics. Obviously, with men controlling everything, this comes down to money. Women make the majority of purchase decisions and we've been shaming them into buying our shit since the beginning of TV... where we sold them all sorts of household appliances to make housewifery easier. We have always... always, pandered to women, at the expense of men, to make a buck.

          The more interesting food for thought is why that is... then you get into the family unit and labor and so on.

          last edit, I swear: Another "case in point" example... you don't need to go back very far to a time where TV was full of positive male role models. Men who were men, even if it was sometimes in the comical chauvinist sense, which wasn't often because these men were the heart throbs of their day. Women openly went wild for the manly men of the past the same way moms go wild for the sparkly vampires and emo warewolves of recent memory.

          [–]JustTwoBrothers 29 points30 points  (0 children)

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          I'm the last person you have to convince man. I'm here for a reason, because I swallowed that red pill a long, long time ago. I can definitely see it in the media that I watch.

          However, again, I just don't want people here to get into the habit of making these little side comments like women control communication, when it is factually untrue and makes the rest of us sound totally fucking ridiculous for saying. Media is very set on catering to women, but its men behind it. They make their money, and at the end of the day thats all its about.

          [–]through_a_ways 11 points12 points  (3 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          Come on man, you know thats not true. There's no female conspiracy to make TRP a pariah, but what there are is a whole lot of naive people. We don't need these "us vs. them" statements man.

          There's no white conspiracy to keep black people down, either, but it doesn't mean they aren't disadvantaged by many systems.

          Women spend more than men. Women consume more than men. Thus, it makes sense that commercials will tend to be more female oriented than male oriented. I wouldn't be surprised if television as a whole was currently more geared toward women than men.

          But it doesn't really matter if television is or isn't, because what he said is still right: http://www.rossispeaks.com/archives/11045

          [–]1independentmale 4 points5 points  (1 child)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          Women spend more than men. Women consume more than men.

          Sadly, by and large they're spending money that was earned by men.

          [–]16 Endorsed ContributorTRPsubmitter 17 points18 points  (0 children)

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          There's no female conspiracy to make TRP a pariah

          You must not be familiar with shitredditsays or /r/thebluepill.

          You're right that you shouldn't pay attention to them, but there's definitely efforts to get TRP banned.

          [–]5 Endorsed Contributorgekkozorz[S] 46 points47 points  (27 children)

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          I stand by what I said 100%. I don't mean to say that women have formed a collectivist thinktank which they're using to take down TRP, specifically. I am simply referring to the fact that women, as individuals, tend to have major problems with TRP's general type of community.

          Notice, for instance, the fact that feminists will very commonly use the term "Boys' Club" as a pejorative. As in, "ugh, TRP needs to be taken down, because it's a Boys' Club."

          The fact that it's a "Boys' Club" is apparently reason enough for it to have a negative social stigma.

          This is something women seem to understand on a basic level: if too many men form an organization of fellow men, said community needs to be either infiltrated or destroyed.

          [–]1Mikesapien 24 points25 points  (3 children)

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          Case in point: video games.

          Feminists want gaming, and they want it bad. It's male-dominated, and they're launching their campaign against it. Just look at any of the following:

          • female host of GDCA

          • Anita Sarkeesian's videos

          • deafening outrage at the lack of female assassins in Assassin's Creed Unity

          The list goes on. It's unfortunate that this wave of bullshit has to roll right up on shore along with the tide of interesting developments in gaming, like VR, gen 8, etc.

          [–]Cross_of_Coronado 10 points11 points  (2 children)

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          Thing is: Video games is a Multi billion dollar operation. You bring feminist Bullshit and I wont buy it. And females don't make up 50% of gamers. They mainly play casual games.

          [–]phantom_ranger 31 points32 points  (39 children)

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          You're fucking retarded if you think there's no female agenda to make TRP a pariah. Have you ever heard of Jezebel? Have you ever read any of the cultural marxism over at Slate, the Atlantic, or the Daily Beast?

          People like Amanda Hess derive their salaries entirely from efforts at making TRP-esque arguments socially unacceptable.

          [–]JustTwoBrothers 20 points21 points  (37 children)

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          You know whats crazy? The first thing you mentioned was Jezebel. I only heard of Jezebel because this place linked it.

          Just because these barely relevant publications hold these views don't mean there are small titted women behind a keyboard saying "we're gonna get these guys!". You can go ahead, put your tinfoil hat on and think you've finally figured out the matriarchy, but you can leave sensible people the fuck out of it.

          [–]rpkarma 22 points23 points  (0 children)

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          Dude for what it's worth (and I agree with you) Gawker (owns Jizzabel) is absolutely huge. And yes, the legitimately consider TRP/PUA/any manosphere stuff their actual enemy. It's no conspiracy, but it is good business. Those rage clicks pay the bills.

          [–]Ojisan1 13 points14 points  (0 children)

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          [–]Ralt 30 points31 points  (7 children)

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          I think it would be fair to say that most media has feminist tendencies and promote that ideology, but the channels are not controlled by women. Pretty sure they are controlled by very smart men who want viewers and money.

          [–]JustTwoBrothers 6 points7 points  (6 children)

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          I can definitely get behind that. And you highlighted another point: the men behind it these narratives.

          This sub is certainly destructive in the sense that it can blind people. Sure, women want this narrative to continue. But there are smart males in control of it all who just want to make that money, and who can really hate on it? I sure as fuck would.

          [–]Ralt 22 points23 points  (5 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          This sub is certainly destructive in the sense that it can blind people.

          Yup, there was a week where every time I hit up /r/TheRedPill it was nothing but vitriol and women hating. The day I was just done some of the good contributors had excellent theory posts and it reminded me to just seperate the wheat from the chaff. I really wish there was 50%+ less "BP Example" threads. I rarely remember to up/down vote but I've tried to really get in the habit of doing so in here to try and enact some of that community quality filtering reddit is capable of.

          [–]JustTwoBrothers 12 points13 points  (3 children)

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          You're a man after my own heart. I get really tired of coming here, and the top post being about some feminist saying some kind of crazy shit. That and BP example threads like you said.

          [–]Ralt 5 points6 points  (2 children)

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          We just have to vote for the content we want here. It's true the sub would be a bit more dead, but I'd be fine with that. Sure, good conversation can be spawned from the threads, but overall I think it lowers the quality. We do have good mods though, the creation of /r/TRPOffTopic has been helping.

          [–]JustTwoBrothers 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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          I'm totally fine with it if it lowers the time that new members take going from "angry" discovery to true RP. I think a lot of these new members see these stories and really start to buy that it is an us vs. them type of mentality, and start to get angry at women for trumped up reasons.

          [–]Ralt 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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          Indeed. If a guy has been hurt by a woman and comes here to vent, I love it and am glad we're here to explain or sympathize. What sometimes seems to happen when somone goes out and finds the bottom of the barrel to just sit around and inflame ourselves is the definition of emotional masturbation. I come here to build myself mentally like I do physically in the gym. I gain no value in my life from being linked to some crazy person someone found online. A moderate amount of real life examples to remind us of the social imbalances is excellent, but sometimes we go too far and lose sight of what really matters, ourselves. If anyone is reading this comment chain besides me and /u/JustTwoBrothers, please remember to contribute to the user moderation system that is voting so we can get what we want and what we need from /r/TheRedPill.

          [–]Ymeynotu 19 points20 points  (11 children)

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          Women all know Jezebel. It's not like you go out talking to TRP to your female friends right? Jezebel works the same, the girls don't discuss it with you.

          [–]JustTwoBrothers 11 points12 points  (9 children)

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          I just asked a girl I'm seeing if she has ever heard of Jezebel, and she responded with "its just a bunch of slutty articles about slutty women". The other one (a typical college girl that I see from time to time) responded to my text with "lol what is that".

          Not all women are feminists man, and I say that living in close proximity to UC Berkeley.

          [–]jmottram08 9 points10 points  (7 children)

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          So... she has heard of it and read it.

          [–]vaker 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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          responded to my text with "lol what is that"

          If anybody asks me about TRP, that is my standard answer...

          [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (10 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          You must not be friends with very many women.

          Bitches post links to Jezebel on my facebook feed constantly.

          [–]JustTwoBrothers 8 points9 points  (7 children)

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          Then I suggest you meet some new bitches.

          I don't associate with any of these feminist polyamory whatever types in my area, and you better believe this is the most liberal section of the country you can think of.

          [–]2 Endorsed ContributorFLFTW16 9 points10 points  (5 children)

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          Stop looking for a "conspiracy theory" when there isn't one being pushed. There is such a thing called mass movement where many people act toward the same end, but independently. No one said there is a conspiracy, just a society that doesn't tolerate RP thinking. If you don't understand that, head on over to the redpillwomen sub and read some of the reactions RP women get when they dare to speak their minds to BP women. They get the same treatment from this feminist, gyno-centric culture.

          [–]AIchemyst 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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          I wish I would have read this post before trying to explain how inaccurate those posts were. Karma lost, lesson learned.

          [–]Rainymood_XI 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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          Remember, just act TRP but don't actually use any RP terms and go on with your awesome lives.

          [–][deleted]  (18 children)

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          [deleted]

            [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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            [deleted]

              [–]100 Modbsutansalt 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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              When you see something that doesn't belong, such as off topic posts like the on you described, please report them. We have q brand new sub for stuff like that in order to keep the main sub on point.

              [–]MyRedAccount 3 points4 points  (9 children)

              sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

              Not only do some of them think it's a good thing, but some of them are actually trying to make the image more acceptable.

              I'm going to chime in with what NOPE_CHARLES_TESLA said, in that those little statements that seep out like "women control most communication channels" make this place seem a whole lot more crazy than it actually is.

              Come on man, you know thats not true. There's no female conspiracy to make TRP a pariah, but what there are is a whole lot of naive people. We don't need these "us vs. them" statements man.

              Has one less upvote than you at the time of writing.

              [–]2 Mredpillschool[M] 28 points29 points  (8 children)

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              I personally delete anybody trying to make trp more pc. fuck that.

              [–]1trplurker 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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              And we all thank you for it.

              [–]Overzealous_BlackGuy 8 points9 points  (2 children)

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              My problem with these types of spikes in subs is that you have a lot of dumb fucks who join thinking the silly shit reddit says is what TRP is about and then they become the new poster childs to why TRP is bad, the fact that we had to seperate the TRPgaming into a different sub shows that sometimes the subs aren't always the best thing. I like seeing this sub grow it's like justiceporn, but all i honestly see is stuff about picking up chicks, and pussypass stories, I want to see more about being a better man in general. I know it's not what everyone is interested in that but I am, I have a hard time picking up women but after that I'm fine, it's something I've learned TRP can't help me with, but I feel being better all around can help change some of that.

              [–]dustyterran 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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              I feel that we get a lot of posts exactly as you've just said, "I went to the bar and picked up", this sort of theme is very prevelant in the FR posts, and I don't believe it's particularly interesting.

              What's good is FR threads about how a man actually changed his life outside of getting his dick wet, how he took up hobbies, and became passionate about real shit, or how he developed stronger social skills and used them to excel within his job, I feel that the same old "I got laid last night" FR posts are boring and just breed more of the same shit.

              [–]1 Endorsed Contributorjsl2837 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

              For some introverts and socially awkward nerds, "getting laid" is 10x harder than all the other stuff combined.

              That's why we see muscular nerds who can out-lift 99% of other guys but have no game.

              We all have different strengths and weaknesses. TRP is all for getting outside your comfort zone and doing things that are difficult to you personally based on the new perspective gained from the redpill framework.

              [–]ZeroOn 7 points8 points  (2 children)

              sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

              I'm new here as well. Only been to this subreddit once before months ago, for like 5 minutes. That EMSK post reminded me of this sub. I'm currently post-breakup with my "oneitis", I had very strong feelings for her and basically lost control of myself, giving it to her. Add to this that I'm going through a flat line because I'm participating in /r/NoFap and let's just say the sex hasn't been that great for her so she left me. Today, I visited this sub once again and read through quite a few articles in the sidebar and it once again reminded* me of what I so quickly forgot the moment we started dating (* reminded because I've already spent time learning PUA and RSDTyler really thoroughly goes over the information found here).

              [–]willmaster123 6 points7 points  (2 children)

              sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

              See the idea of TRP is good, but a lot of it is torn apart by people who either take it to far or people who reject its idea completely.

              Men should be stoic, but not 100% emotionless.

              Men should be assertive, but don't completely turn into a full on asshole.

              Men should be confident, but don't act like a fool.

              Everything in moderation.

              [–]MinusIons 5 points6 points  (1 child)

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              What's with all this "should" business, here and elsewhere? People-not just men-should just be who they are or who they want to be, within reason, and not worry about what some group on the internet says they "should" be like. Those "shoulds" can't possibly encompass all personality types, male or otherwise.

              [–]MyRedAccount 8 points9 points  (4 children)

              sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

              It has been very interesting to watch. The mod team are masters of manipulating infamy. Many of the posters have amazing insight into all sorts of things too.

              If newbie's with an intellectual inclination read this I recommend checking out Whisper's, IllimitableMan's, and surprisingly GayLubeOil's stuff particularly. Whisper was IMO originally the most interesting, but I haven't seen anything great from him in a few months. Looking at his page he's stuck in video games or some shit like that. A lot of other poster's are really perceptive too, but those are the posters who's names really stood out to me.

              I've only been here since August or something though, so I shan't advise before then.

              [–]Mr_Mori 3 points4 points  (1 child)

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              Also give a nod to therationalmale and his website. The mans writing is astounding.

              [–]2 Mredpillschool[M] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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              And don't forget the sidebar!

              [–]LineOfCoke 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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              i like offensive_brutes comments here. hes pretty insightful when hes not trolling other subs.

              [–]Lithiumthium 10 points11 points  (4 children)

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              What works will keep working and people will still find it, regardless of any "crusade" against it.

              TRP is just one response against all the misandry that is out there, divorce rates going through the roof, every man unhappy with his situation be it a father who is unhappy with his LTR, a BP, a Beta and so on will relate to this sub and start changing his life.

              [–]lapinsk 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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              I guess it is true. Any publicity is good publicity.

              [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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              Thanks for the free advertising, /u/talshar, not that we needed it.

              [–]watersign 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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              In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

              George Orwell

              [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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              [deleted]

                [–]3Gf93bMtX3 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                Are mods prepared for this?

                [–]drunkmilkshake 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                That post was gilded 58 times?!? What?

                [–]FrankoIsFreedom 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                I also came here from that post, still not sure what im looking at but just wanted to chime in.. Infamous or famous, you still become famous. Which explains the membership spike _. The problem is when they stop talking, so keep them talking.

                [–]NotMeUsee 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                This post and all the support in the comments started my day off. Coincidentally my day is now made. Great work TRP! keep it up!

                [–]jova33 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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                So.... What you're saying is there's 1,206 new competitors out there...

                [–]Rainymood_XI 1 point2 points  (2 children)

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                So ... anyone has that link he's talking about? the 'EMSK post'?

                [–]LuciusExitius 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                When I first subscribed too this sub we had 3-5k members, never really took another look until now, almost 60k. Good work, let the word spread. Also interesting, I clicked on the link to the sub and now its gone, does anyone have a copy for the thread?

                [–]Oracle712 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                White knighting doesn't work. It's that simple. There is no negotiating or meeting the in the middle. Anyone who preaches that rhetorical nonsense is damn fool.

                [–]∞ Red Pill VisionaryRollo-Tomassi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                For the new subscribers –

                The Evolution of Game: http://therationalmale.com/2013/04/19/the-evolution-of-game/

                At its root level Game is a series of behavioral modifications to life skills based on psychological and sociological principles to facilitate intersexual relations between genders.

                [–]davevd 3 points4 points  (5 children)

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                Whats the difference between this and PUA culture?

                [–]1 Endorsed Contributorjsl2837 3 points4 points  (4 children)

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                Read the Introduction in the sidebar. It explains this very well.

                Game is an important portion of a sexual strategy. A lot of you probably came here from /r/seduction and are probably wondering why we'd need a new subreddit if one dedicated to game already exists. The reason is simple: Game is a facet of The Red Pill's sexual strategy. Determining good game is impossible to do so without first understanding the context given by The Red Pill's framework. Something I keep seeing over on the seduction subreddit is a problem taking over most relationship and sex forums: the desire to feminize the discussion (basically making it sound politically correct if read by a female).

                Footnote: /r/seduction was completely subverted a long time ago. Check out /r/TRPgame and /r/AlreadyRed instead. There's also /r/AsianMasculinity, an overtly redpill sub for Asians.

                [–]davevd 7 points8 points  (3 children)

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                So let me try to get this straight, TRP, is about the meta game and reasoning for game in the first place? I mean I think I get it, /r/Seduction or PUA culture is about the moves, whereas TRP is more about psychology adjustment and discussion given the state of play in the 21st century we find ourselves evolving in?

                [–]TheSKSpecial 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                You got it.

                (this post brought to you by the council for defeating the post-length bot)

                [–]1 Endorsed Contributorjsl2837 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                Yes. As you said, "meta game" is precisely the right term.

                It's like peeling an onion.

                First, you have the layer which discusses life strategies and sexual strategies for men in modern societies. Game is a facet of the theoretical underpinning of these strategies. PUA is, as you said, more tactical.

                Then you have the layer that attempts to explain why women think, feel, and behave like they do, i.e. evo-psych. Female vices have existed since caveman times but it was the Internet hivemind alongside the creeping feminism of modern times that exposed the workings of the female psyche to greater scrutiny. Based on these ideas, red pill writers attempt to explain how the female imperative affects the fabric of society. The theories percolate to the topmost layer to be incorporated into the corpus of Game and red pill life strategies.

                Another layer underneath deals with politics, philosophy, psychology, and anthropology. From time to time, some insights bubble into higher layers.

                For example, one such distilled insight:

                http://redditlog.com/snapshots/778225:

                Unfortunately, most guys have no self worth other than what they get by proxy from a girl.

                This is what The Red Pill is all about -- unlearning all the many ways society has programmed you to feel bad about yourself, and dropping them like a bad habit (they are literally bad habits, as in habitual ways of thinking that are emotionally destructive).

                People bludgeon you emotionally as you are growing up, and they hand over the stick as you learn to do this yourself, with the result that long after they are dead and gone you keep beating yourself up, carrying on their dirty work. And it's not even by design -- they are just acting out their own dysfunction, totally unaware of anything but the needs of the moment to vent their negativity on someone else.

                These are negative emotional memes, like annoying commercials that get stuck in your head. Once you clear them out of your mind, it's very quiet in there.

                It doesn't matter what the rest of everyone else you know told you about yourself; they only fooled you into thinking they had some type of authority. In reality, they only have as much power as you give them, and you can take it away at any time with no negative repercussions. In reality, they had no idea what they were talking about, and were just projecting their own issues on others.

                Monkeys have the same type of social structure. The kids of the higher-status ones beat up the kids of the lower-status ones, so that by the time they are adults, the lower-status ones know their place.

                This seems cruel, but it has a very important function: In case of famine, if there's only enough food to feed, say, two monkeys, it should go one male and one female, in order to continue the species/group/genes. There has to be some way to sort this out in advance.

                Why? Because imagine the alternative: All the monkeys get an equal share, of 2 servings divided 20 or 100 ways, and everyone starves to death together almost as quickly. It's better to keep a few strong than let everyone get weak and die. If there's enough for 10, then save the 5 highest-ranking pairs. Whatever it takes.

                And that's not even counting fights. Social status means that the monkeys know their place, so they will put up with a LOT of hunger before they will try to challenge the higher-status monkeys. And by that point, they are too weak to be effective, because they have been starving and the higher-status monkeys have been eating the whole time.

                So you see, ALL the social nonsense we all grow up with and are surrounded by every day of our lives is a remnant of the fact that the survival of any given group of people was precarious for almost all of human history.

                Every single thing boils down to jockeying for being the higher monkey who gets to eat first or only, when the food is scarce.

                This is why billionaires keep trying to get more money. Because maybe only the #1 guy will survive, if the shit hits the fan.

                And if something went wrong and instead of 5 males and 5 females surviving a disaster, you got the 9 strongest males and 1 female, it's about jockeying to be the monkey that gets mating access.

                Go look at a list of the richest people in the world. You could kick the shit out of any of them in a fair fight. You and many other people are just as smart as them or smarter.

                Same thing with the top monkeys. There's nothing special about them. So how do they stay on top?

                By convincing you to stay on the bottom! If they can convince you to doubt yourself, their work is essentially complete. You will never challenge them for anything. They win every fight because they convince the other guy not to show up.

                They trick you into buying into consensus -- the unwinnable situation where you need to gather everyone's approval before acting, except nobody agrees on anything. Or they have been media-manipulated into agreeing on a position that is automatically disempowering for you to adopt.

                Meanwhile, the people at the top ignore all of the opinions of those below them. Just like the monkeys at the top. They just act, and bully everyone below them into compliance.

                [–]otiswild 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                I think the concept of "meta game" doesn't encompass it, since PUA is a child of RP wisdom. That is, there are multiple branches from the root of RP: PUA, MGTOW, MRA, Marriage game. RP is a set of knowledge and mind, and with those tools you then pursue different paths based on what you want and how you calculate the related risks/rewards.

                I'd go a bit further: RP in and of itself has no morality, inasmuch as Newton's laws or Quantum physics have no morality. Any moral consequences related to RP derive from the use of it, not the RP itself. RP, like its component Hypergamy, doesn't care.

                [–]Miranda_is_amazing7 6 points7 points  (20 children)

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                As a female on this subreddit, I've subscribed to see and understand more about how some extreme TRPers see women, and how that opinion is spread. I'm more than willing to admit that some women deserve hatred for what they've done to men, but keep in mind there are a few of us rational chicks out there too.

                [–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

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                Please come check out /r/Redpillwomen!

                [–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (12 children)

                sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                Most of us don't hate women, we are just forced into a corner where we've been betrayed and are seeking to understand why. TRP (and many of the pre-socratic philosophers) outline a world view that allows us to understand the actions of women to a much greater extent than the nebulous word-view of contemporary american culture.

                [–]jaysire 9 points10 points  (10 children)

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                What struck me was that the whole point of the EMSK post was that trp men turn the table and become the emotional abuser instead of the woman. That isn't true at all, but it would be completely impossible to correct that notion in that thread.

                Many of us feel that the "bad" kind of feminism with raging hatred towards men or the feeling that women should do everything on their own makes for very unhappy women. Some of us feel that a more traditional approach where the man controls the family and ultimately bears the largest part of the responsibility is a key to more happiness. Of course it requires the man to step up to the plate and stop fooling around. You have to assume the role as a man. You have to become The Lord of the manor and once you do, there will be a kind of peace and harmony that was previously lacking. That is not emotional abuse.

                [–]MinusIons 2 points3 points  (4 children)

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                I don't really agree with a good bit of what you are saying, but you're reasonable and rational in your presentation of your viewpoint. I agree that what you describe doesn't really sound like "abuse" and I'm sure that dynamic works for many and is even what some men and women might want in a relationship. But that shoe doesn't fit everyone.

                More importantly though, I think what a lot of us non-redpill people have trouble with is that some or many of your fellow subscribers say things that sounds a lot more like abuse than what you describe. A comment I saw a few before yours read "my gf does as I wish and she likes it!" or something to that effect. It's hard as an outside observer to read that and not feel like someone is being taken advantage of in such a relationship. Or the guy is full of shit and just angry. That's the other vibe I get a lot.

                Also, I would be able to take it a lot more seriously if so many users didn't give off such a cult-like vibe with all their "enlightenment" talk. Any time some group claims to have "the one truth" that no one else gets, my bullshit radar goes off. Nothing is so black and white (or red and blue, as it were). No one person or group has figured out the big secret to something as big as being alive today in a world full of over 7 billion humans.

                Finally, I notice that a lot of people on here say their reason for subbing is because they loved a girl, got their heart broken, and then woke up to their "blue pill" ways and swallowed the red one instead. Many come across as angry and frustrated. I get it. I've been there. I've been cheated on. I've been led on. It sucks. But I've also done the leading on and realized it wasn't even on purpose. It's happened to most of us, male and female alike. But when those things happened to me, I was sad or mad for a bit, and then I moved the fuck on. I didn't need some strategy or tricks, I just needed time to find someone it worked with. So maybe some of the self-improvement stuff could help here, just so long as it's without all the stuff claiming anybody has to be a certain way to really be a this or a that. And if we're going to arrive at the idea that self-improvement is the best or most important part of this sub (this seems to be some people's opinion, at least) why have the red pill at all? Why not just visit the countless self-improvement subs with all the positivity and none of the bullshit?

                Sorry for the wall of text.

                [–]dustyterran 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                Hate is a very strong word. Guys come on here and go through a grieving stage as their whole perception of women is completely changed. Their whole view of the world is changed and while people experience distaste, I would rarely call it hate. Cynicism and distaste are actually much more accurate terms to describe someone swallowing the pill.

                However, I feel this sub gets a lot of flack because a lot of the newcomers come on and post about how their "x-gf" fucked them over or their mother is crazy or whatever else these guys think is going on. While we do have very good posts coming in daily, a big majority of it is ranting and venting, not much we can do to change that. Hopefully, people can look past it and find actual substance in this space and learn things that changes their lives in a positive way.

                [–]DoesNotMatterAnymore 4 points5 points  (3 children)

                sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                ...but keep in mind there are a few of us rational chicks out there too.

                I'm gonna repeat myself: TRP is a toolbox for men, if you are a good girl, and you love me for WHO i am (physical look+personality) , and not for WHAT i am (social status, money) i have no reason to treat you like shit, or use ANY TRP stuff on you. The saddest truth for me is that some women will love me for WHAT i'm, and then maaaybe for WHO i'm. While i love you for your being, i don't give a fuck how much money you make, for what social status you have.

                [–]Scarlett_Begonias 6 points7 points  (2 children)

                sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                I think the problem is that most of the men in this sub don't believe that "good girls" or "rational chicks" actually exist, and they advocate approaching every interaction with a female as if she's the worst possible example of a woman.

                [–]TheSKSpecial 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                Considering what brought most of those men here is because they were doing the opposite, treating every interaction with a female as if she was a "good girl" or a "rational chick", and consequently getting shat on by said females, can you really blame them for taking another approach?

                The reason why it's advocated in that way is because it works. It's effective, your personal feelings on the matter be damned.

                [–]otiswild 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                Hating is just a stage. That some fellows never progress past it is a tragedy, but hate is not wisdom.

                Besides, true RP wisdom/Zen would call hating women giving them power over you, power to control your emotions. Better to have little regard, give them no power; if they're not contributing to your happiness then why expend an iota of mental energy on them?

                [–]Miranda_is_amazing7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                Yeah honestly I follow it just to get an idea of how they reach their conclusions. I usually don't give it much mind but this post caught my eye.

                [–]JGH8763 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                If TRP concepts did become more accepted/mainstream/whatever, male-female dynamics would only get even more brutal than they are, and we would need additional dosages of red pills, and they would become even harder to swallow. It would basically just make things a lot harder than they already are. Women would increase their mating standards, and men would have higher standards of competition. The red pill illuminates the dark side of human mating, so if that dark side becomes much more illuminated, I'd be afraid to see what remains in the dark.