all 125 comments

[–][deleted]  (60 children)

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[deleted]

    [–]SharK3D 61 points62 points  (16 children)

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    TIL only gays are attracted to muscle http://imgur.com/DXR9JnV

    [–]t21spectre 14 points15 points  (2 children)

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    The video of the interview. She just has that OMG fuck me look.

    edit: "I have to tell you, my heart is beating so fast for you...both of you guys are near friends..."

    Yeah sure, that's probably why...

    [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

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    Just look at her, biting her lip and fidgeting with her arm, and those eyes of longing desire. Yeah, god damn.

    [–]Nepenthenes 29 points30 points  (9 children)

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    Damn. That look. She was ready to jump him on the spot. o_O

    [–]Nutz76 22 points23 points  (5 children)

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    what that gif doesn't show you Is her hand reaching down to her crotch and her almost touching herself. oh, and his wife is right next to her.

    [–]Nepenthenes 3 points4 points  (3 children)

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    I... cannot tell if you're running with the lighthearted juke I tried to make or mocking me...

    [–]be_tru 13 points14 points  (2 children)

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    No, that actually happened.

    [–]itwasninjas 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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    THAT! JUST! HAPPENED!!

    [–]Nepenthenes 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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    Yeah, I saw the video again and was all "Well I'll be damned."

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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    [deleted]

      [–]Nepenthenes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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      Geez, it was a fucking joke. Lighten up!

      Edit: I just watched it again. Fuck what that other guy said. I can hear it in her voice. Something's definitely going on there.

      [–]Clauderoughly 10 points11 points  (0 children)

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      She be 'mirrin !

      [–]Meterus 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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      Heehee, the guy should all the sudden look at the woman & say "My eyes are up here!"

      [–]Kiddmorbidd 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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      Knew it be flex Lewis gif

      [–]TranceAroundTheWorld 9 points10 points  (0 children)

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      Women spend all their time fawning over talentless twinks. I've asked women if they like men with muscles and their replies are "ew gross". However, the men with muscles are the ones getting laid.

      [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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      For any redpiller who doesn't lift, fucking lift. What it does for your mind and body is incredible.

      Seriously. THIS. I've lost 30 (Still roughly 10, 15lbs away from my ideal) but I've noticed females have become more receptive to me now that I have noticeable muscles. Hell, one of my coworkers gets all flirty whenever shes feeling up on my biceps.

      [–]ursogaydontlikeboys 4 points5 points  (20 children)

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      i'm not shitting on bodybuilding at all, but i don't think it's the ideal type for a woman. there was a study (aka survey lol) that showed college-aged girls a bunch of different pictures of the male body types and the "ideal" type they chose was a photo of brad pitt from fight club.

      http://cdn.stronglifts.com/wp-content/uploads/brad-pitt-fight-club.jpg

      like OP said, don't define yourself by what women want, so if you want to look like the governator in his prime go for it. personally i prefer the toned look much more, so that's what i'm going for. i'm just saying, in my experience, most girls like tone and lean moreso than big and bulky.

      [–]SwordfshII 44 points45 points  (1 child)

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      I don't workout for women. I workout to be strong (and I am). If women like it it is a bonus, if they don't, well fuck them

      [–]abcd_z 31 points32 points  (4 children)

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      Yes, but that study was almost definitely based on self-reporting. That is, what women said they were attracted to. I wouldn't accept it as a trustworthy source of information, because (as stated upthread) what women say they want and what women are actually attracted to aren't necessarily the same thing.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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        [–]MC_Cuff_Lnx 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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        That would be slightly more objective, but it's hard to say that what you're measuring is really attraction.

        [–]frazzleddd 17 points18 points  (1 child)

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        Because its brad fucking pitt and its a survey. Women either don't know what they want or lie about what they want.

        [–]FountainsOfFluids 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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        Quite true. I'm more interested in the studies where they have brain scans and vaginal sensors recording while showing pictures. Those studies are very interesting. I don't recall at the moment if they said anything about ideal male bodies. But I do recall that women were turned on by photos of lesbians even if they didn't consciously think they were.

        [–]hermit087 7 points8 points  (1 child)

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        Having a somewhat skinnier body like Brad Pitt or Bruce Lee would be a good goal, but most men would still need to lift extensively to reach that. If you don't want to be a 250lb gorilla thats fine, then you can simply dial back your diet and lifting once you reach your goal, but until that point you should train as if you are a bodybuilder.

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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        The key is more low %fat than huge muscle gains. The only people I know who lift and aren't attractive are people who are always bulking and simply look fat.

        [–]RedeemingVices 10 points11 points  (0 children)

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        Bodybuilding doesn't just refer to the big mass monsters who compete in events like Mr. Olympia, it also includes other forms of bodybuilding, including all-natural ones. Zyzz was a bodybuilder, but wasn't a human version of a Belgian Blue cow. If you're lifting with aesthetics as your primary goal (as opposed to strength or conditioning), then you're bodybuilding.

        [–]Boss_Monkey 3 points4 points  (1 child)

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        I once read this from an evo-psyche perspective. One of the best ways for a bro to mate guard is to say the other man is "too into himself". Women are primed to be attracted to men who are more giving and less self-invested. Makes sense from an evo-psych perspective of gathering resources.

        Anyway, it went on that women see men who work on their own bodies all day as heavily self-invested and not as attractive as men who are fit, but don't look as self-invested.

        TLDR, women are self-interested in acquiring your provision. Any sign that you are super self-interested is a deterrent.

        [–]mctoasterson 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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        That seems relatively ironic considering the Tyler Durden character said things like "Self-improvement is masturbation".

        [–]2Marsupian 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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        A lot of people start lifting for self-improvement and keep lifting because it's fun.

        I enjoy almost any form of physical training because moving your body, putting it to it's limits and improving over time is fun. In the end all that matters is being happy and I'm happy when I'm training.

        [–]floor-pi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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        You can't look like Brad Pitt in Fight Club without 'bodybuilding' fairly extensively, lifting competently, dieting strictly etc.

        [–]FountainsOfFluids -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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        I've always said that my goal is to have a body like a pro beach volleyball player. Lean but strong, ready for just about any sporting competition. And that's because I believe that an active life is the happiest life, and lean strength enables the most successful activeness. It would be true whether women liked it or not, but I think we'd all agree that biologically speaking, that's what women want the most whether they know it or not. A guy like that is going to be telegraphing that he can do anything that a woman wants from a man.

        [–]InflatableRaft 60 points61 points  (1 child)

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        I remember hearing a saying about this: A man's worth is judged by what he can do, but his self-worth is determined by what he chooses to do.

        [–]17 Endorsed ContributorHumanSockPuppet 9 points10 points  (0 children)

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        It's funny, because I can see a feminist using that exact same quote with a different spin on it.

        Either way, it's a good quote if you use it right.

        [–]Invincibull 42 points43 points  (10 children)

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        What's also tiresome is how even the people who support your training will say "you're getting too big, women don't like that." Then if you try to explain that this is strictly for your own benefit, that's when the ridicule and accusations of being gay or narcissistic start flying.

        The reasons are understandable, though:

        1. Most men never break free of the conditioning since childhood to believe that their lives revolve around winning the approval of women. They start out trying to impress mummy and end up spending every waking moment worrying how to impress women. To men like that (probably at least 95% of the male population), it's unimaginable that a guy could possibly have better motives. To them, if you want to be a millionaire/cllimb everest/get a haircut/buy a nice car, it could only be to impress women. It's pointless to listen to or argue with anyone who thinks that way.

        2. Simple resentment. Deep down, everyone knows that hard exercise and being strong and muscular are good for you. Most people feel guilty about not doing it, so anyone who does keep in shape is a threat and a reminder of their own wussiness. Hence the attacks.

        Women also do this if they perceive a man with high value, as a man like that makes women feel insecure. But that topic deserves a thread of its own.

        [–]thegman84 17 points18 points  (1 child)

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        "you're getting too big, women don't like that"

        • Lazy betas don't want you to get big because it makes them look bad.

        • When women say it, it's a shit test. If you stop, then she has control over you and you've failed.

        [–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

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        also, women say it who fear you will end up out of their league.

        [–]t21spectre 5 points6 points  (1 child)

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        "Sour Grapes":

        When someone says something critical or negative because they are jealous, it is something that they cannot have, or are willing to work for, so they regard it as being of little worth and not desirable

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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        The other way around is quite common for people, but those people usually aren't lying to themselves.

        [–]abcd_z 12 points13 points  (3 children)

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        Then if you try to explain that this is strictly for your own benefit, that's when the ridicule and accusations of being gay or narcissistic start flying.

        To be fair, if a woman claimed she dressed up and wore makeup for herself and not for anybody else, we'd probably downvote her out of the subreddit.

        [–]FascistComicBookHero 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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        Except that strength and size are more than skin deep and useful in so many ways. Being strong can save your life, for instance.

        [–]QuietlyLearning 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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        What bring humans pleasure is linked in some way to sexuality.

        [–]UnpluggedMaestro 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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        Interestingly, almost EVERY woman I know says this about makeup. Apparently they feel confident and empowered with thick makeup, heels and a slutty black dress. Go Grrrl Power!

        [–]scratcher2 9 points10 points  (1 child)

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        My mother saw a guy driving around in a Mercedes (a decent one, but not flashy) and immediately felt the need to vent about how she's not impressed and he probably can't really afford it. It's incredible she's that closed minded, so I put her tried to reason with her, what if he's been putting money away for years to get that car? What if that's his dream car and cars are his passion? She kept on shutting him down as a deadbeat. She eventually stopped taking when I kept throwing common sense her way.

        [–]UnpluggedMaestro 10 points11 points  (0 children)

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        She probably feels guilty about wanting his D and had to rationalize him away as unattractive.

        [–]theVet 37 points38 points  (5 children)

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        Women are not attracted to muscular men

        Yeah right, that's why all the movie heroes today are more muscular than they have ever been. Women want it but they don't want you to know that they want it.

        [–]Ormild 32 points33 points  (4 children)

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        "I don't like guys who are too big."

        Girl's panties are getting wet when Captain America, Thor, James Bond, Kid from twilight, etc are all taking off their shirts.

        [–]FountainsOfFluids 11 points12 points  (2 children)

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        Let's be honest. The kid from Twilight was skinny. But that other dude in the movie was pretty built. I think they had one of each so the girls could have their preference.

        [–]Ormild 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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        Yeah that's who I was referring to. I didn't know their names so I said that kid from Twilight. A lot of girls still prefer the skinny guy's build though.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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        That's cause he felt like snapping the neck of the girl, so he was dangerous and her girliness made him not do it.

        [–]Camerongilly -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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        If you grow traps, delts, and abs, it makes you look bigger without gaining much actual weight.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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        [deleted]

          [–]16 Endorsed ContributorGayLubeOil[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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          Lol sorry wrote this at 3am. I gain 10 pounds a year

          [–]jakethesnake76 11 points12 points  (2 children)

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          Any(Body) who is unplugged from the Matrix , is a loss of a power source, and a threat to the future of the Matrix so yes when a man gets independent from women he is a big threat i as most of you are living proof of this. i have had old friends who are no longer (Allowed) to talk to me because i have taken the Red Pill.

          [–]16 Endorsed ContributorGayLubeOil[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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          Im a twenty something. Could you please describe to me the process of how a wife isolated your friend from you?

          [–]jakethesnake76 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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          i used to go to church with her, when i started asking questions about
          why they were so dogmatic and dictatorial, they kicked me out. He was in this church and told me his wife wouldn't let him talk to me anymore. As i have swallowed the red pill principals through listening to this alpha man on the radio, i have been able to awaken several of my friends . But i have to be judicious about whom i talk with.

          [–]mctoasterson 13 points14 points  (0 children)

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          To give yourself a hilarious and infuriating contrast to this, try making a statement about women wearing make-up "for men" or "to be more attractive to men".

          9 out of 10 women will suddenly develop a pissy/condescending tone and say something like "I don't do it for men, I do it for myself" etc.

          [–]Nutz76 20 points21 points  (4 children)

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          It's more than masculinity. Men's worth as human beings is by what they provide society on the large scale, and by what they provide women on the small scale. Warren Farrell said it best:

          Women are sex objects, men are success objects.

          [–]billy0246810 10 points11 points  (0 children)

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          I personally prefer, "women are objectified as toys; men are objectified as tools."

          [–]Meterus 1 point2 points  (2 children)

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          I like the way Easy Rider put it: "Men use women to get head, women use men to get face".

          [–]UnpluggedMaestro 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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          Women use men to get ahead, men use women to get head.

          [–]Meterus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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          Well, the original Easy Rider saying was, well, for the men, pretty straight-forward. For the women, "getting face" meant social presence/respect/protection.

          [–]The Private ManZamarski 14 points15 points  (0 children)

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          The only person a man has to impress is himself.

          [–]robot_army_mutiny 9 points10 points  (1 child)

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          When I stopped giving a fuck what women thought, it was like a blast of freedom. I still find myself subconsciously reacting, though, when I go out without bothering to put on nice clothes or showering after hiking or something, and a woman treats me like I'm some kind of scumbag hillbilly. But quickly I remember how women think, and laugh to myself.

          Most women are really transparently judgmental when you pay attention to them. When I get dressed up to go out with friends or family - with nice clothes and looking sharp (like I've got money and take care of myself), they are sooo friendly. But when I've been working in the yard and go to the store to buy a cold drink, and I look like I work with my hands, I'm invisible - worse than invisible, offensive.

          When I realized what I'm being evaluated on, and how easily I can manipulate that by what I wear, how I stand, and how I speak, it all began to seem like a stupid game. It's like "Wow, that's what you care about? LOL, you're stupid and I don't want to know you."

          So I like to go out dressed like a bum now. It separates the genuinely nice women from the ones who are just looking for a med student to hitch their pony to before they get old and can't make men act stupid over their cleavage.

          [–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (3 children)

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          In that time iv gained approximately a pound a year and am starting to get bodybuilder proportions at 225 pounds at six ft.

          So..you've gained 7 pounds in 7 years?

          [–]Invincibull 9 points10 points  (1 child)

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          Hopefully he gained at least 60 pounds of muscle while losing 53 pounds of fat.

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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          Ye, that makes much more sense.

          [–]16 Endorsed ContributorGayLubeOil[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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          typo 70

          [–]Human_Isomer 8 points9 points  (0 children)

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          That makes so much sense. Thank you so much for making me realize this. It really adds to the mentality of don't give a fuck about what other people think about you. Especially women.

          [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

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          Society is one big shitball of mediocrity, and it hates anyone who is better than average.

          [–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 4 points5 points  (3 children)

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          I have lots of muscle mass due to my military job, and most women are not into it. I dont give a fuck what they are in to, unless they want to fuck me that night. I dont want to get any bigger than I am now, but I am cutting weight to get my definition back. Most people just assume i am fat and lazy, and I am ok with that because I know what my capabilities are.

          I get a ton of shit about my cars though. I keep having people tell me to sell all the old stuff and buy a new car that I dont have to work on. It has dropped off lately thanks to the auction shows where they see these cars can bring lots of money, but they all assume I am building them to sell so I can support a woman. I am building them because I like driving a 10 or 11 second car, and I like the style of 60s and some 70s vehicles. Its what I like to do with my time, it isnt for profit, its for me.

          [–]orc_czar 6 points7 points  (2 children)

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          A lot of women seem to resent men who are passionate about their hobbies. I think it's because deep down they know that they are too dull and vapid to develop a genuine interest in anything.

          [–]boner_drone 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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          They resent people with interests because they lack them.

          [–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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          Usually its competition for attention, but also its about money. They want all the money, all the control and none of the responsibility.

          [–]rhettdu 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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          It's because if you're not in a female space, they can't control you.

          You've taken yourself out of their sphere of influence which means you can do whatever the hell you like. Guess what's more terrifying than a guy you can't control? nothing.

          [–]modAutoModerator[M] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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          Don't forget to set your link flair!

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          [–]ryeprotagonist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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          bro, you nailed it. women resent ANY man's hobby as it is of no use to women.

          [–]treefrog24 2 points3 points  (8 children)

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          Great point. Here is why I think those women are wrong for thinking bodybuilding isn't something useful to women. Being physically bigger makes other men respect you. This respect is 100% noticed and valued by women.

          [–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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          Except for the fact that women HATE competition especially for a man's affections.

          Look at everything involved in courtship (dating) and marriage. It's all about staking her claim and warding off any potential future mates.

          [–]be_tru 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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          They need competition to feel that the man is valuable. This is why spinning plates is so important.

          [–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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          That is a good point.

          Also shows the bipolar nature of things... What women say they want and what women actually want.

          [–]boner_drone -2 points-1 points  (4 children)

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          That's 100% true but it's still about status. It's indirect.

          And a very buff guy is still AMOGed by a skinny guy who has status from things like being known for music, art, even skateboarding, or political status, being a boss in a company, etc.

          That's why guys have a drive to get famous.

          [–]treefrog24 -1 points0 points  (3 children)

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          Obviously. money trumps everything, Yea but take the skinny successful guy and add 20 lbs to him and see what happens. Take 2 men with exactly the same job, personality and money. Only difference is one is 6'5 210lbs. The other is 5'7 140lbs. Size will make a difference in success rate of these two people with women.

          [–]boner_drone 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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          Only difference is one is 6'5 210lbs. The other is 5'7 140lbs

          Now take a skinny guy who is 6'5", say... Mystery.

          And a 5'7" guy who is built, say.... Shawn Ray.

          Sorry, if you are trying to control for a single variable, you don't get to use two variables.

          You can't work out to get taller. And height is known to be positively correlated with female attraction.

          [–]treefrog24 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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          My point is physical size makes a difference. If you are denying that then you are delusional. I'm done, I'm not arguing about this. Feel free to continue.

          [–]boner_drone -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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          What part of "height is known to be positively correlated with female attraction" did you miss?

          I'm done, I'm not arguing about this.

          It's not much of an argument anyway.

          [–]RedeemingVices 1 point2 points  (2 children)

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          Another reason people shit on you for bodybuilding is that they're jealous and have to rationalize it so that you're a freak instead of a badass. That way they don't have to feel shitty about their own doughy, unattractive bodies.

          Also, 225 at 6 feet is impressive. What's your bf%? I was ~165 at 6'2", been working out about 7 months, currently at 208, but with at least 17% bf.

          [–]16 Endorsed ContributorGayLubeOil[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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          I think my body fat is in the 14 to 17 range. I can see abs in the morning but after I eat I immediately bloat up. I think im very sensitive to sodium also I retain alot of water. I like to bulk on the shieko squat program.

          [–]boner_drone 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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          I'm impressed with it, guys are impressed with it, I just don't see the evidence that women work the same way.

          [–]Endorsed ContributorpuaSenator 0 points1 point  (6 children)

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          I don't really agree on society defining us on how useful we are to women. I'd say it's more about "society defines how valuable we are towards society." For the most part, society doesn't give a shit if you're a bodybuilder that likes to make model cars. Society cares more about the value you add to the world.

          I see nothing wrong with this either. I think we should use our limited time to add value to the world. But that doesn't mean slaving away. It means find something you're passionate about and make a mark with your passion. The same way scientists may not revolutionize everything, but every scientist is passionate about what they do, and for the most part, just add a tiny drop of new knowledge in a huge bucket.

          If you're going to live your life just working 9-5 building someone else's empire, while you use your wages to go tinker on mundane stuff, I'd say you're just another worker ant. Instead, go home and tinker and create something to offer the world.

          [–][deleted]  (4 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          [deleted]

            [–]Endorsed ContributorpuaSenator 3 points4 points  (3 children)

            sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

            Sure they do. Maybe not society as a whole, but they certainly contribute to "their" society.

            [–]boner_drone 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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            They tend to seize assets more than create wealth.

            Generally, they destroy wealth of others, to increase the value of their own holdings.

            [–]Endorsed ContributorpuaSenator 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

            When I mean society I should have been more specific. I mean those that are directly part of their social circle. I assure you, warlords among their peers are revered and they are getting quality woman. Society as a whole my not like them, but their local social group does revere them. He's bringing them money, power, and so on.

            [–]boner_drone 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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            Ariel Castro contributed to "his" society. He got women and had power over them.

            If you're going to discount the negative effects on everyone else, then sure, anyone can be good.

            [–]drivendreamer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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            It all comes down to screw women, get currency.

            Women do not know what they want, so do not play by those rules. Make a plan and stick to it

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

            sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

            10 pounds a year up to 225 is pretty fuckin good man ~

            What style training do you use? Whats ur height? And are you on gear?

            A lot of what goes on here at TRP is men coaching other men how to be more masculine Pursuing Masculinity for its own sake is a trap

            I disagree with your argument, but would love to hear about your training / dieting techniques ~

            Don't define yourself by how useful you are to women, define yourself by how useful you are to yourself, how happy you make yourself, so it makes no sense that persuing masculinity is a trap.

            The problem in your argument is in this last sentence, being a masculine man, is what makes a man happy, excluding NAMALT exceptions.

            If you mean persuing it for the sake of women I suppose you have some flimsy argument, but I call that killing two birds with one stone.

            Last, there is a difference between a natty build and a hyper masculine geared-to-holy-hell build like coleman or yates, in how women view the attractiveness of it, and I don't think it's possible for most guys to break the threshold without getting on some serious gear. A masculine natty build will bring bonus points to the pussy table just about anywhere you go. 225 is pretty big though, depending on your height you might have broken that barrier.

            [–]16 Endorsed ContributorGayLubeOil[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

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            Im six foot. In the beginning i did 5x5 and madcow, then I moved on to Sheiko and Smolov: Brutal eastern European programs to get mass. If you are in a place where gear is legal I recommend Test and Boldenon slow keep able gains with zero to no sides.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

            Thx, and I edited my post about 100x there ~

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

            Society also defines femininity as how useful a woman is to men. Shocker.

            [–]16 Endorsed ContributorGayLubeOil[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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            The whole objective of 3rd wave feminism was to expand the definition of femininity. I would say that the movement has been pretty successful overall. While your statement would hold true in 1960 it is not true anymore.

            [–]Sofrates 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

            [–]16 Endorsed ContributorGayLubeOil[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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            Redpill is more fun because it has a well established opposition

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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            That is really crazy that anyone would shit on you for working out. Are you sure this is a society thing vs. their own personal issues?

            [–]elheretic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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            Yes, that is why many men use the beta provider as the template for an Alpha.

            Some of the myopic and vision-impaired among you have been complaining that they can’t see the practical use of this series. This final installment will make it clearer for you.

            Before we get started, let me get one thing out of the way that you should keep in mind throughout this article. Although I say being a pure alpha can be a bad thing in this society because modern society is so rigged against excessive alpha behavior, make no mistake about it, if you have to be excessive it’s definitely better to be too alpha than be too beta.

            Now that we got that out of the way, I want to introduce you to the alpha fallacies.

            The Alpha Fallacies

            Everything good a modern man can be must represent an alpha trait. Everything that represents an alpha trait must represent something good for a modern man to be.

            These differences between these fallacies are subtle, but they aren’t exactly the same. However both play a big role in much of the confusion men have when they debate idealized manhood.

            The point of this whole series has been to point out why these two fallacies are actually fallacies, especially for middle-class men. For middle-class men in modern society, the best response to take in many scenarios is often the beta response. And for middle-class men in modern society, many alpha traits can also be extremely counterproductive and even self-destructive.

            Alpha Dissonance Modern developed, monogamous societies are set up so that a model man is one that is not excessively alpha, and such societies are set up to curb any excessively alpha displays by use of alpha proxies. (See part 4, linked above) Alpha proxies aren’t limited to just governmental bodies but also social norms, etiquette, media mesages, public opinion and modern customs. Our society has set us up to believe being alpha is the best thing for a modern man can be and that all things great about modern men are automatically alpha traits, yet at the same time our society discourages and punishes men the moment they engage in any excessively alpha behavior, whether it’s growing a harem (look at Tiger’s shaming), monopolizing resources (antitrust laws), engaging in fistfights (look at Ronnie’s arrest on “Jersey Shore”) or murders of romantic rivals along with other brutal, aggressive and domineering aspects of alpha male behavior. These conflicting messages society sends us where alphaness seems simultaneously celebrated and encouraged yet is punished and discouraged creates what I call alpha dissonance.

            Here’s an example of alpha dissonance. A reader named Alpha Male left this comment in response to part 4:

            "My definition of an alpha male is really parallel to that of a leader and any truly great leader is not a jackhole."

            Here we see the alpha fallacy #1 in play. Modern men are discouraged from being assholes. In fact, being an asshole can be very counterproductive, especially if you are a middle-class man, because if you do it on the job the good employees under you will leave the company and the supervisors above you may view you as a liability because of the sexual harassment and employment discrimination suits they can get hit with (again, note the use of an alpha proxy at play to level the playing field, in this case the legal system and courts). Also, if you as a middle-class guy are an asshole in a social situations, even if you’re a leader among your peers, it can really backfire against you, because you’re not so poor that you have nothing to lose and no fear of consequences, and you are not so powerful you can just thumb your nose at the rules and buy yourself an out.

            http://therawness.com/the-myth-of-the-middle-class-alpha-part-6/

            formatting is a bitch

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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            [deleted]

              [–]16 Endorsed ContributorGayLubeOil[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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              What makes me happy is advancing myself. When I do well in my graduate school or manage to put up more weight for more reps I am happy. Being stagnant makes me unhappy, there is nothing worse for me than feeling average.

              [–]PittHarman -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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              A person (man or woman) is valued by what he/she can provide to others. That's it.

              Individuals may value themselves however they like.

              When there is a balance between the two viewpoints then life is easy. These days there is a huge dichotomy between the two and society is anything but tranquil.

              For some reason society is trying to mesh the two. Feminine feelings and desires are being assessed a value on par and superior to the value given to masculinity's greater utility.

              Since utility trumps feelings and fantasy, the next step to save this sillyness is denigrating the utility. Bring its value down by re-tooling the masculine. This also results in the de-valuing of feminine utility in the family.

              Bodybuilding, powerlifting, fly fishing, mountain climbing, gossiping, glitter painting nails and shopping/gathering etc are wastes of time to society in general but are enjoyable to the individual.

              You will never get any support from people because society is in a confused time, trying to equate self worth with societal value.

              Society and its governors will denigrate and complain and whine and moan and cry and punish and commit abuses even worse than the family court system until the injustice becomes clear.

              Simply don't listen. Build your utility so you have the resources to enjoy what you like. Don't equate them though.

              [–]chainlinks -4 points-3 points  (1 child)

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              Agree with the sentiment, but let's be honest... bodybuilding is narcissistic masturbation. This is coming from a former Personal Trainer of 7 years with a B.S. in Kinesiology.

              [–]16 Endorsed ContributorGayLubeOil[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

              Im also a PT of six years and I agree with you completely. Bodybuilding is masturbation but its a great alternative to going to clubs or watching television.