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[–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 229 points230 points  (91 children)

Next week my youngest turns 18. The child support is over, she isn't getting it anymore. She has been living on the gravy train to which I was an indentured servant, and now it's gone. She is crying, has no idea what's happening, what she will do, how she will survive....on $4600 a month that her disabled veteran second husband recieves. The horror of it all when your actual bills are less than a thousand a month, but you can't manage money.

The whole reason she divorced me was because I wouldn't hand over my checks so she could have my account overdrawn in three days, and I wasn't able to earn enough for her shopping. She left, taking 72% of my military pay with her, awarded by the state despite her physical and mental abuse of our two kids and I. Her cheating, drinking, suicide attempt, and photographic proof of her violence didn't matter, but her having a vagina was enough.

Her short term, right now, instant gratification mindset is now coming home to fuck her in the ass. If her second leaves before the next two years, she gets nothing from him. Nothing from me, and her fat ass has never held a job for more than a couple months.

This is what marriage in the USA is friends. Shortsighted entitled whores and females bereft of human decency soaking up money for nothing, then finding themselves walking with no ticket to ride. Don't give these bitches the ticket, don't build the train for her to ride. Live for yourself, never get married, and remember if you lose frame for even a short time she can and will leave taking cash and prizes with her.

You're a man, you can rebuild, you can go earn a living and get back where you were when she came into your life, then move ahead. We build shit, they leech off us. Let them go earn a fucking living, don't subsidize a woman, it doesn't pay you back. The ROI is abysmal. All she really has is moist holes where your dick fits, beyond that she is of zero benefit.

[–]MGTOW_player 73 points74 points  (17 children)

I love your post. One thing though: you have no frame in marriage.

She has a nuclear bomb and you have a wooden sword, figuratively.

[–]FlamingD 16 points17 points  (11 children)

The trick is was -as far as I can tell- making her believe that you're sword is more powerful. It generally doesn't work for long anymore, if at all. It used to work when slut shaming was still acceptable and widespread, and women who divorced their husbands were outcast by their community. You can still see a little of that in small towns across the midwest, but it is dying fast. It wont be long before what you say is true except for the most remote locations on the globe.

[–][deleted]  (6 children)


    [–]sir_wankalot_here 9 points10 points  (2 children)

    When I said the same thing yesterday I got massively downvoted and called a sociopathic or pasychopathic abusive asshole :-)

    Always be Guy B whether it is business, women or life in general. Guy A has a weakness, and if you can find out his weakness it can always be exploited one way or another.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)


      [–]sir_wankalot_here 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Probably I should have started the post a little less provactively. Mutual Assured Distruction (MAD) is a valid tactic. Also it should be used only as a last resort.and when the stakes are extremely high. So you are dealing with a foe that has the upper hand, you know you can't win the best you can do is MAD.

      You then calmy explain here is the scenario, offer the person a way out, you get 25% of my assets final offer. If this does not happen I will do a MAD.

      In this case you MAD has to be done 100% legally. You need a lawyer that has a bit of a psycho streak in him/her. Legally you do everything to delay payment and just cause legal Chaos. The psycho lawyer will agree to it because they are profiting. For legal advice it does not hurt to sometimes get a female lawyer. Find one that is plain looking and actually had to work hard for their law degree. Sometimes these women secretly hate women who got a pussy pass, and men who give these women a pussy pass. Imagine if you are a plain woman, while you are busting your ass off studying, some good looking chick submits a paper that is garbage, gets a much better grade then you because she flirted with or fucked the professor ? Publically the plain woman can not admit the pussy pass exists because all the other women will gang up on her. Secretly she will have a large amount of resentment inside her. So maybe the woman is plain looking, but not fat. She just has not been blessed with good looks. Obsesity unless it is a medical condition is a sign of laziness.

      You can usually feel out if she secretly has this resentment. Drop small vague comments like how a good looking woman seems to get all the attention.

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I want to be guy A for my kid's sake, but I was always guy B at the core. pity the woman is finding this out after the fact

      I love my kid, but I know I don't need to be around all the time to lick his wounds growing up. however, I don't believe total absence is acceptable

      [–]SenorPuff 3 points4 points  (2 children)

      It really depends on if she's from a small community that values those things, or not. If she's an avid churchgoer, where divorce might literally cost her her soul(in her mind), or it might cost her all of her family and friends, you are on fairly equal footing. These women are unicorns, however.

      [–]EvianChronicles 10 points11 points  (0 children)

      I sympathize with the first post, but I must say, being married to a unicorn has been great.

      I discovered the red pill before it was on the internet as a reaction on my very feminist-upbringing. It failed 100%, and made me realize I wanted a oldfashioned wife.

      Lots of kids, sex and apple pie. Call me stupid but I love it

      [–]magus678 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      If you find a woman with these kinds of values there are usually some pretty serious trade offs. If you want a family they are probably worth it though.

      [–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      For the most part, but maintenance of your frame is important, she has to see you as the prize, not your income.

      [–]2 Mredpillschool 2 points3 points  (0 children)


      You have a nuke, and the wedding is where you willingly hand it over to her. "Here you are, don't use it!"

      [–]1renzy77 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      Part of me wonders if women are just as aware as men that marriage is a raw deal for men, and it makes them lose respect for a man (perhaps subconsciously) who willingly goes along with such a raw deal.

      It would be a like salesman who's able to get a buyer to pay double-price. It benefits the salesman, but I'm sure he can't help but feel disgust towards a buyer who's so easily duped.

      [–]MightyTaint 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Fuck this cannot be repeated enough. I have never heard it put so succinctly.

      [–]magus678 14 points15 points  (9 children)

      Taking this to heart man, really. The shit you went through is at least helping others to be wary of the same. Hopefully that is worth something

      [–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 13 points14 points  (8 children)

      That's the only reason I write about it, to warn others.

      [–]surgeon_general 4 points5 points  (7 children)

      Do you feel that your kids made the marriage worth it though? If you had it to do all over again, and your ex-wife wouldn't have had the kids with you unless you married her, would you marry her?

      [–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 10 points11 points  (6 children)

      My kids are a source of pain for me. She took them when they were four and seven, moved 1500 miles away, cut contact, screened calls on birthdays and holidays, discarded or kept presents for herself, and I was only allowed to see them for 12 days over the next seven years. Every time I would travel to see them, it would take three or four days to find her, and the state helped her avoid me.

      Her now second husband molested both my kids, now Im trying to help them get their lives turned around. She was abusive, neglected them, and lies about everything while spending none of the money on my kids. When she told me "oops, I'm pregnant" I was about to dump her ass, but instead decided to give my kids better life and protect them from the shit I endured. She seemed hell bent on making their lives shit hole like hers.

      I love my kids, but out of defense of my sanityI had to distance myself from them. If I never had kids I would be much happier. My kids wouldn't have shitty lives fucked up by their bipolar cunt of a mother.

      [–]aazav 11 points12 points  (4 children)

      Shortsighted entitled whores and females bereft of human decency soaking up money for nothing

      Simply put, "I'm not your bank".

      I'll relay a few stories.

      My art educated bi polar manic mother had a few very pretty female friends in the art world who were old, attractive and single. As a child, I was amazed how they could live so well without having jobs. Well, they had 4 or 5 husbands. While that didn't compute in my child mind, was that they had 4 or 5 husbands in the past and IIRC, if you live in Massachusetts or Florida (and a few other places) you pay alimony for the rest of your life when you get divorced even if she gets married again. So this woman was collecting 4 or 5 paychecks just by being hot enough to trap a victim for a few years.


      About 1/2 my cousins and friends (who go married) are happily married and 1/2 are divorced. Some had a rough time with batshit crazy or vindictive ex wives. Me? I want no part of that. Life is hard enough as is.

      I bought a house in Texas from a guy after his second wife cheated on him while he was paying child support to the first. His second wife cheated on him after he bought the house, the boat, the Corvette and the his and hers motorcycles. I bought the house from him to prevent him from going bankrupt. Yes, that's right. All it took was marriage to two women to go from high earner to almost bankrupt.

      What sane and intelligent man would put themselves through that?

      Not this one.

      I also lived in California for a while trying to make my dot com millions. It's expensive enough to live there. WHEN you get your divorce, you pay alimony until your wife marries again. Soooo, what's to prevent her from living with her boyfriend for several years while still collecting alimony? I'm not going to be that sucker.

      It costs so much to live in America today. Women who don't earn the bucks are put into this predator mode (even if they are that way already) to find a guy they can tolerate for a few years and then take his money since the system works for them and they feel entitled to do so. If they aren't thinking like that at the start of the relationship they often turn that way over time. They have nothing to lose and much to gain (in the form of a paycheck).

      Marriage in America is FUCKED today. Plain and simple.

      We're men, we can rebuild, but WHY SHOULD WE HAVE TO? Life doesn't last forever and I don't want a woman to be a tax on my future.

      [–]pantsoffire 28 points29 points  (36 children)

      I agree with so much of what you write. That last paragraph... Just exemplifies my views... We can rebuild. We need less. We require less. We will rebuild.

      And yet here (in Australia) we're throwing money at women because:

      Minority Group. At 50% of the population.

      Guaranteed Hire in a range of Industies. Because above.

      Priority Housing. Because children and Feminism.

      Pregnant or Single Mother teenager? Free University Degree. To get you back in the work force.

      Want to become a Police Officer? If your female- we've lowered the Pass Rate.

      And... The general populace complains about the self obssesd and overly entitled attitudes of young women.

      Well, fuck. Count me out. Sign me up for the get the fuck out of Dodge program. Developing Nation, Antartice or Mars- here the fuck I come.

      [–]MrMagwitch 19 points20 points  (1 child)


      [–]pantsoffire 10 points11 points  (0 children)

      I've been Red Pill... mindsetted since the late nineties as a teenager. There is NO issue concerning entrapment. I haven't had a girlfriend in ten years. Trust me, I'm clean and clear.

      [–]unseen1unknown 5 points6 points  (10 children)

      Fairly certain we have common law marriage here as well don't we? So even living with them is enough to fuck you after a certain period of time

      [–]pantsoffire 6 points7 points  (8 children)

      6 months. Living togeather that's it. That's all it takes.

      [–]aazav 4 points5 points  (2 children)

      In Australia? 6 months? FUCK!

      [–]Andress1 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      It's fucking crystal clear now.Australian government wants to strip you from your money and give it to women.Please don't let them do it.Don't even think about moving in with a woman that isn't your mom or sister.

      [–][deleted]  (4 children)


        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Australia is so fucking feminist, I've been waking up to that reality this year.

        [–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 4 points5 points  (11 children)

        I'm staying. I sacrificed for this place, they can fucking leave if they don't like me. Besides my cars are here, I like them better than any woman.

        [–][deleted]  (3 children)


          [–]Lytalm 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          Australia is a fucked up place...

          [–]TekkomanKingz 8 points9 points  (3 children)

          She left, taking 72% of my military pay with her

          How is this even possible? Veterans really need to contact their VA office for legal support. Happy Veterans day thanks for your service. This may be moot for you now but trust me, the spouse can't get that much from your army benefits especially upon divorce. There are federal and state laws which determine how much the spouse gets and it's nowhere near 70%. Whichever judge awarded that basically doesn't know the law and can be disbarred.

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)


            [–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 8 points9 points  (0 children)

            4 minutes is very offensive! I'm not easily offended, though I am opinionated. I'm working on my text game with old chicks tonight. No loss if I fuck it up, but so far I've gotten two naked without trying.

            [–]BluepillProfessor 10 points11 points  (1 child)

            Gratz bro, hope you can move on now. Your story is not exactly anything new but your words have iron forged truth in them. Thank you.

            [–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 11 points12 points  (0 children)

            I'm very moved on, and having all my income will be nice.

            [–]MrMagwitch 2 points3 points  (3 children)


            [–]CryptoManbeard 2 points3 points  (2 children)

            The problem with shared parenting agreements is at any time the woman can go back to court for custody and it will be as if it never existed. These things only work when both parties are in agreement. You absolutely can not pre-empt the legal process for child custody and child support. Many have tried, and all have been disappointed. The only way out of it is if you have one of these agreements and the mother is not intelligent enough to know they are toilet paper in the court's eyes.

            [–]pissoutofmyass 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Is your youngest in a spot to make it in life or has your ex not put in the effort to prepare your child?

            [–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            She will be fine, she is like her mom and swings from branch to branch. I'm not worried about her, she chews up boys and spits them out. Definitely an alpha female, that kid of mine could have been so much more than she is, but her mom made her into a broken slut like herself.

            [–]ImpalaPUA 92 points93 points  (23 children)

            Marriage only benefits the female. It's a financial disaster for both parties usually, where the lawyers end up winning.

            My favorite part of this for the TL;DR people:

            Marriage takes your one card away that gives you any measure of power over a woman. Your ability to walk away.

            [–]FrenchMaybe 37 points38 points  (1 child)

            The guy can't freely leave (without paying a price) but the woman can, that's the fuck up part. Even if she's the one that's psycho. It's literally a ball and chain wrapped around your scrotum.

            [–][deleted]  (3 children)


              [–]Subtletorious 42 points43 points  (14 children)

              Like all good rants a few facts get overlooked.

              Children outside of marriage does not remove liability for child support.

              In many jurisdictions, cohabitation creates a legal de facto marriage with all of the same access to property settlements ie divorce rape. (Can a de facto couple even use prenups?)

              In short, you're fucked if you do and fucked if you don't.

              [–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan[S] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

              Yeah you can't even LTR in a common law jurisdiction. I hear that's all of Canada.

              [–]unpluggedoasis 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Yup - canada you need to be extra careful. It has to be more femnized than the US

              [–]demoneyes905 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              The cohabitation statement is referred to by law as "Common Law Marriage" and is only in the following states: "Alabama, Colorado, District of Columbia, Georgia (if created prior to 1997), Idaho (if created before 1996), Iowa, Kansas, Montana, New Hampshire (for inheritance purposes only), Ohio (if created prior to 10/1991), Oklahoma, Pennsylvania (if created before 9/2003), Rhode Island, South Carolina, Texas and Utah"

              Thankfully most states have abolished this archaic law and so you probably don't have to deal with it.


              tl;dr this cohabitation rule is not applicable in MOST states BUT you should check your state to make sure you don't get screwed by common law marriage laws.

              [–]Subtletorious 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Such laws are in full force in Australia.


              Answered my own question. Yes, unmarried couples can sign pre-nup agreements (in Australia at least)

              [–][deleted]  (8 children)


                [–]PoopSmearMoustache 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                DNA databases baby, they will change the laws so your identity can be revealed in extreme cases should you ever find yourself on one of those databases.

                [–]1sailorJery 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                I can donate my superior sperm to sperm banks still

                Only if you're over 6ft tall

                [–]19 Endorsed Contributordrrrrrr 20 points21 points  (3 children)

                Guys, if you thinking about marriage, let me help you out to the best support hotline I know of. It's called r/relationships

                Look at the way married men live. Look at what their wifes who they at one point cherished as beautiful, loving angels have become. Do you want that? Do you really want to spend your whole life dealing with that shit? Even relatively alpha guys I know who hold shit down in their marriage... their lifestyle is a far cry away from the bachelors life. Don't marry; love a woman seriously with all your heart if you want to, that's on you, but never, ever involve the government in an area you don't have to.

                If you are a true "alpha" you can make marriage work - but that is because an "alpha" can make any dating strategy work. He could make the courtship strategy work, he could make the poly lifestyle work, etc, so simply being in the situation where you feel like marriage "could work" for you doesn't mean you should do it.

                Don't let random isolated data, like the 80 year old badass dude who served in WW2 and has been happily married for 60 years get you to think marriage is this beautiful thing. He's not you, he learned frame by having the lead a squad through Omaha beach, and his wife most certainly is NOT these modern day girls. A highly masculine man and highly feminine woman, in a culture that encourages monogamy, masculine-feminine polarity, and penalizes divorce... YES, that can work. This is what pro-marriage folks always will say - "my parents done been together for 50 years and they are as in love as ever."

                Yeah, well Edith didn't grow up posting her ass on GW and instagram whoring 24/7 from her iPhone 6 that she's financing despite not having a real job and student loans. Edith didn't grow up raised to think that men were a wallet and that it's okay to divorce if you "love him, but are not in love with him".

                DO NOT BE FOOLED BY AUNTIE EDITH AND UNCLE BENNY. Things have changed; patriarchy makes marriage work. We haven't had a patriarchy for a long time.

                Boycott marriage. Let betas be Captain-Save-a-Hos. Seriously, that's what they love, let them do it and drown trying to cater to these women's expectations for what marriage "should be".

                [–]mega_beta 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                There's a lot of good responses in this thread, but this one stands out for me. I'm a risk-taker, so I look at things in terms of risk vs. reward. These days, there is is simply too much risk and too little reward, even if you are that Omaha beach field commander.

                [–]totorox 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                cant beat

                also the government is involved without marriage contracts : just living together or sharing expenses for 6 months or a year is enough for family judges to grant child support and alimony these days

                sometimes the kid is not even the guy's... and the court acknowledges it but orders child support anyway.

                sometimes it wasnt even a sexual relationship : roommates get child support too because the guy "assumed the role of a father".

                it is a system of wealth extraction; do you think that you need to sign your name to a legally binding document to be subjected to it? You think the gov and the court will see anything but the money it can make off of you? Think again. Yes, the courts get federal kickbacks on child support and alimony, that's why it's so crazed up.

                now you may object i'm only talking about money but it's these money exchanges that affect the male to female and parent to children dynamics. It's because she knows she's entitled to your money that she acts like a C. The added privilege that she can ruin your life with simple, costless and lucrative false allegations doesn't improve her character either.

                A recent divorce settlement reached $995M. That's the governmental/judicial/business machine you're dealing with (and the money it earns to deal with you if you rebel).

                [–]1tombreck2 15 points16 points  (5 children)

                My plan is to have a son and a stable family environment. Marriage (I wouldn't get married but according to the state co-hab legally falls under the same bs) seems like the only way.

                [–]Rougepellet 14 points15 points  (0 children)

                Women are the gate keepers of sex. Men are the gate keepers of commitment. Getting married makes it much harder to withdraw commitment. She can still easily withdraw sex.

                [–]teeelo 12 points13 points  (10 children)

                Being married is a great thing when you are looking for a job, it makes you much for hireable. Doubly so if you have kids.

                Employers know that you have a reputation to keep as a Family Man, they also know that you are not in a position, ever, to do anything that would get you fired or lose out on a promotion.

                Therefore you make yourself an excellent corporate tool, willing to bend or break your morals to ensure that you aren't the one to be let go. Just don't tell the family what you do to put bread on the table.

                [–][deleted]  (7 children)


                  [–]Obsessory 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                  Sacrificing the work 'tang for future prospects. Give this man a RP cookie!

                  [–]crasher555 2 points3 points  (2 children)

                  Could you elaborate? I will be using this for my next interview.

                  [–][deleted]  (1 child)


                    [–]Endorsed ContributorDownvoteToDisagree 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                    It could be illegal for them to inquire about your marital status because of discrimination laws. If they ask, deflect it with an agree-and-amplify joke and move on.

                    [–]RamenAvenger 11 points12 points  (3 children)

                    Marriage is a legal arrangement regarding your finances and nothing more. You can have a wedding, live together, have children and love each other forever without it. You think it doesn't matter when you sign those papers, and that's true - they only matter when you split up. Primarily what you're really signing is the financial terms of a possible future divorce.

                    And you know she's going to take you for every dime you have if she can.

                    [–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

                    Quite right. Marriage is nothing but an incredibly unreasonable financial insurance policy for women nowadays. A vehicle for massive wealth redistribution from producers to parasites. Divorce is incredibly unethical towards men. I can think of maybe one caveat for marrying that does not apply to the vast majority of people: political reasons.

                    [–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (4 children)

                    Don't get me wrong, I plan on avoiding marriage my whole life for many of the reasons you just stated which essentially boil down to self interest. Indeed, if the choice is between 1. Assuredly not getting fucked over and 2. Potentially getting fucked over, you are a fool if you choose the second option.

                    However, there is one element I think you should reconsider:

                    I see guys hamster a lot "why marriage is necessary" it isn't

                    It depends on how you define "necessary." If you define it as living a happy life, then I agree. However, if you want to paint with a broader brush, there are arguments to be made that marriage is absolutely necessary for society at large. Indeed, it is the yolk that holds together female reproductivity and male productivity. Any society worth its salt will protect this ceremony and make concessions toward it.

                    For a metaphor. Society is like a large organism. Feminism is like a mutated cell that spawns thousands like itself. Once it reaches the lymph nodes (marriage), the jig is up, and it is usually only a matter of time till the cancer spreads and the organism dies.

                    TL-DR Your choice as a man in today's age is not one that is enviable. That is, either enter the trenches of marriage to fight a losing battle, or hop on the bandwagon of hedonism and ride that shit to the bottom.

                    [–][deleted]  (3 children)


                      [–][deleted]  (1 child)


                        [–]guy2435 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                        The other half have given up and just decided to live out their days sticking their condom clad weiners in women and thinking that's success

                        Or be the third half, single successfully happy and riding that shit to the top while having lots of sex on the side.
                        Because as for personal success and happiness I don't anchor those to a woman. For reasons already littered across this sub. For family and survival or the species, I'd give that to the beta-bux and the alpha wolf. If I can't be an alpha wolf, I'd have none of those shit from women.

                        [–]17 Endorsed ContributorJP_Whoregan 88 points89 points  (80 children)

                        • We have a nation full of self-absorbed, entitled, selfish, narcissistic millennials with their faces buried in their iPhones.
                        • We have over 90-million people in this country who are no longer in the workforce and are mooching off the state
                        • We have a government that has amassed $17.5-trillion dollars in debt, it is climbing every day, and there's no sign of it stopping anytime soon
                        • We have a school system that drubs masculinity, curiosity, and competitive spirit out of little boys' psyches from a young age like it's some sort of mental pathology
                        • We have a divorce rate that stands at 55% and climbing, meaning there is a better chance than not that your child will grow up in a broken home, with government replacing daddy, and mommy badmouthing daddy all the while
                        • Your child's individuality will be driven out of him/her, and will be trained in school and beyond to abandon all personal desires to become good little cubicle worker drones who's principal purpose is to contribute to the machine of corporate capitalism
                        • Given the 35% obesity rate among children today due to shitty diets both at home and at school, as well as the promotion of sedentary lifestyles i lieu of active ones (i.e., PE is marginalized/eliminated in many schools today) there's a good chance your kid will grow up a fat tub of lard, no matter how much you try to prevent it at home

                        In the face of all of this, what kind of cruel, sadistic fuck does one have to be to bring an innocent child into this world today? I've already told my parents that if they want grandkids they better start hounding my little brother. I'm too much of a (whats the feminist term?) "humanist" to introduce this fucked up society to a child.

                        [–]TakeYourSoma1 32 points33 points  (53 children)

                        Don't forget that homeschooling is constantly degraded in the media and targeted by the government, while private schooling is out of reach for many people.

                        Starting a community of like-minded people is not advisable. You will get targeted.

                        What are we men to do?

                        [–]17 Endorsed ContributorJP_Whoregan 78 points79 points  (39 children)

                        What are we men to do?

                        1. Fuck marriage
                        2. Enjoy the decline

                        Pursue your personal desires, achieve your goals, ensure your own happiness in a vacuum, independent from the desires others socially impose on you, and in the mean time, get your dick wet along the way.

                        We didn't create this shit-hole, we were just born into it. When life hands you lemons, find a kinky slut with a fruit fetish and see if the lemons fit in her empowered, stretched out vagina.

                        [–]1rife_omeqa 20 points21 points  (12 children)

                        Enjoy the decline

                        When I was a kid and first heard the story of Nero playing the fiddle while Rome burned I didn't understand the narrative at all.

                        It makes more sense to me than ever. I feel like I should be playing one right now. I feel like my entire life will be one of fiddle playing while I sit back and watch it all burn.

                        At some point one has to accept that some things are beyond repair and that the only recourse left is to tear it down and start again from the beginning.

                        [–]1sailorJery 4 points5 points  (5 children)

                        but Nero was a crazy despot, and we're supposed to be the leaders, why not try and actually put out the fire?

                        [–]1rife_omeqa 7 points8 points  (3 children)

                        What are you saving by putting out the fire?

                        The things burning are already perverted, deformed shadows of what they once were.

                        The courts do not dispense Justice. The Police do not protect the citizens. The media does not further the public knowledge. Politicians do not act in the best interests of their electorate.

                        The structure of our society does not value the contributions men make. They systems I am inherently subject to, do not further my wellbeing. All my inferiors prosper at my expense while I gain nothing. 300+ million people in America and 90 million of them are on some form of public welfare. I do not collect welfare, I never have, my generation never will in the future with Social Security going out the window. Why should I wish to stop that system from burning to the ground when it offers me nothing?

                        but Nero was a crazy despot

                        "and those who could not hear the music thought all those dancing were crazy". Those who do not see the flaws, the perversions and injustices think all those that do see them and act accordingly as crazy.

                        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (20 children)

                        So I was wondering. I agree with your comment regarding decline. Obviously we should try and milk it for what its worth. From a investment perspective, ideas on how to capitalize on this knowledge?

                        [–]17 Endorsed ContributorJP_Whoregan 14 points15 points  (19 children)

                        Financially? Invest in gold, guns, and ammo. Remember that part in Wolf of Wall Street where Matthew McConoughey's character says the stock market is all a "fugazi", it's fake, nobody knows what it's gonna do?

                        Well, given all of the factors I listed above, the stock market sits at nearly 17,000 points, one of the highest levels in history. Given the fact that wages have been essentially stagnant (adjusted for inflation) for the last 15 years, does that make any damn sense? Of course not. I'm not a financial advisor, but I know I'm putting my money in precious metals.

                        This nation, and our generation in particular, has lost it's will to be great. It's the "me" generation, "give me what I'm entitled to". That can only lead to eventual decline.

                        [–]ClassicGoth 3 points4 points  (2 children)

                        If you want to get ahead in the (post-apocalyptic) world, invest in vodka and cigarettes. They'll be worth more than gold.

                        [–]R3dTim 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                        If you want to get ahead in the (post-apocalyptic) world, invest in vodka and cigarettes. They'll be worth more than gold.

                        Ammo, booze, smokes, and medicines. For sure.

                        [–]1KyfhoMyoba 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                        Don't forget food. Freeze dried food.

                        [–][deleted]  (1 child)


                          [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (3 children)

                          Silver used to double every 5 years now it sucks as an investment. Gold isn't guaranteed to make money either.

                          [–]17 Endorsed ContributorJP_Whoregan 8 points9 points  (2 children)

                          Precious metals are never to be used as a means to "make" money; they are to protect already earned capital by moving out of paper money assets like stocks and into something that is less fungible. You don't move assets into precious metals to "make money'; you move assets into precious metals to "protect already earned money". I'm of the opinion that this nation has reached critical mass in new earnings potential. Call me an idiot.

                          [–]Obsessory 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                          Yup, All of this ranting is true...I'd also mention the planet getting completely ass raped by corporates, and religious radicals (frankly, christians as much as Islamics) going awol. I firmly believe that our generation, or maaaaybe the net generation will have the highest standard of living that humans will ever have. Then it's gonna drop into a black hole of anarchy and oppression and MAYBE, something will come out the other side...

                          [–]kingofpoplives 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                          the stock market sits at nearly 17,000 points, one of the highest levels in history

                          Thank you quantitative easing!

                          Forget gold. I have my bitcoins secured and am ready for hyper-inflation to commence.

                          [–]sir_wankalot_here 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                          Get yourself a chunk of land in a rural area some place. Don't make yourself a target. Just by living in a rural area you will save a bundle of money and have a more relaxing life.

                          Cops everywhere are lazy, they want to get the most arrests with the least amount of risk and effort. That is why they like to hang out in densely populated urban regions. This is a universal truth, even under the Soviet and Chinese communist regimes, the people who lived in Siberia and Mongolia where pretty much left alone.

                          [–]demoneyes905 2 points3 points  (2 children)

                          Putting money in gold blindly is putting money on an investment driven by mostly speculation.

                          You're better off putting money in a no-load total market index fund such as the ones offered by Vanguard (especially admiral levels as their management fee is < 0.0017%) if you had to put money in one thing and let it sit there. Hundreds of studies have shown this is the most optimal hands free way or passive way to grow your money as far as investments go. If you want more information, read "Bogle's Guide to Investing" or "The Intelligent Investor"

                          [–]MrMagwitch 1 point2 points  (0 children)


                          [–]CryptoManbeard 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                          Financial advice from JP Whoregan, love it LOL.

                          You're philosophy is sound but the application is off. On the spectrum we move every day from free market capitalism to crony capitalism. Wages are stagnant but wealth is not. All of the regulations are essentially forcing middle-class business owners to sell their business to large corporations.

                          Example: In the trucking industry you used to be able to get financing for a truck over the weekend and start driving on monday. Today, with all the restrictions on drivers and regulatory requirements of trucking, this is pretty much impossible. The net effect is that all of those drivers who would have owned small trucking companies are now working for a very small amount of extremely large trucking companies. With every regulation passed, it gets more advantageous to band together to reduce overhead. Why pay for 2 logging systems? 2 routing systems? Double the regulatory attorneys?

                          This change in business is happening in many industries.

                          My point in saying this is, it makes perfect sense to be investing in the stock market right now. This is because in short order, ALL of the small business market will be gobbled by corporations, raising the value of these companies at a much higher rate than what should be normal. You want ownership in these companies, because the government is going to keep doing what it's been doing, passing new regulations, making it impossible to be your own boss. Ride the wave....

                          Also, it's a good idea to get invested in companies that operate overseas as well. Some of the traditional blue chip American stocks are actually stagnant in the US but because they are so invested in developing countries they make boatloads of cash. There's always going to be developing nations, the growth isn't limited to just the US.

                          [–]EurasianAesthetics 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                          Here Here! You sound just like me, this is exactly what I believe. And yeh, I read ZH too.

                          [–]MagnanimousGenius 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                          We resist. We educate other men

                          [–]sir_wankalot_here 7 points8 points  (1 child)

                          Don't forget that homeschooling is constantly degraded in the media and targeted by the government, while private schooling is out of reach for many people.

                          Homeschooling is targeted in the same manner illegal immigrants are targeted. In other words a lot of lip service, nothing happens.

                          The reason is economic. Whether or not you send you kid to public schools, you are still paying for it. Technically speaking everyone who pays taxes is paying for public brainwashing. So if your kids doesn't go to school, the government still collects the money.

                          Pretty much the only two useful skills I learned from school are reading and mathematics. One you have those two skills you can get a book on the subject and teach yourself. Personally I think my writing skills are extremely poor. It wasn't until the internet came along and I started to read a lot of things and then comment on forums that I learned how to write. This wasn't until I was in my late 20s.

                          Homeschooling doesn't cost much and once you have your kids into a routine they teach themselves. So every morning they tell me what they are going to do, and they only come to me if they get stuck. I am amazed by my kids ability to learn things.

                          Looking back, I wasted 12 years of ny life in a classroom not counting travel time where I learned absolutely nothing, or in some cases things that where down right wrong. I didn't learn anything useful till I was 30+ and it wasn't in a classroom.

                          [–]satoshi_btc 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                          What are we men to do?

                          Be the change you want to see in the world.

                          [–]pissoutofmyass 21 points22 points  (0 children)

                          We have a nation full of self-absorbed, entitled, selfish, narcissistic millennials with their faces buried in their iPhones.

                          You do realize this behavior originates with baby boomers? They scuttled the economy and are banking on the tax dollars of the millennials to fund their retirement and healthcare programs until they die, soon after the programs will be so beaten down they won't be financially supportable. A bit of an obsession with iPhones is nothing compared to the damage they've done to societal morality (modern feminism and the emergence of the normalized beta male).

                          The apple doesn't fall too far from the tree.

                          [–]Radicality_ 12 points13 points  (1 child)

                          You bring up some good points, but they don't capture the whole picture.

                          The problem isn't that society will fuck up your child as a matter of course. The problem is that the time and effort required to make sure society doesn't fuck up your child will compromise your pursuit of personal interests and desires if parenting itself is not an interest.

                          For example, if someone's interests and desires are money, travel, and tang, of course he shouldn't introduce children to the world, because he won't be there to protect or counteract the negative influences of larger society if he hopes to reach his own goals.

                          But what if the act of raising children is a personal interest? I had a high school teacher who once said, verbatim: "One of my passions is being a father." Guys like him won't think about society corrupting their children, because they're the type who feel rewarded by raising good kids in spite of the world.

                          A man is only a cruel, sadistic fuck for bringing a child into existence if he doesn't prepare for the responsibility of an important, long-term task. It's unfortunate that a lot of people fail this task, and it's partly why society is the way it is.

                          [–]1ThumpNuts 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                          AMEN brother. You said everything I left unsaid in my comment.

                          [–]OhYouPoorSOB 9 points10 points  (0 children)

                          Gee that sounds like it belongs on zerohedge. That's how depressing (but true) your post was.

                          [–]MakeTheSexyTalk 10 points11 points  (1 child)


                          You know what the solution to all of those problems are? Strong male role models for our children.

                          TRP men should be having kids, not opting out.

                          [–]IridiumForte 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                          Thanks for describing my life

                          [–]demoneyes905 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                          I know divorce rates were high in the US but I honestly didn't believe the divorce statistic until I looked up the official census and government reports myself. Seriously, that is alarming.

                          It works out to roughly 52% divorce rate. HOLY...SHIT

                          Source for anyone interested:

                          [–]totorox 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                          We have a school system that drubs masculinity, curiosity, and competitive spirit out of little boys' psyches from a young age like it's some sort of mental pathology

                          That has been medicated since the 90s. ADHD, Ritalin, and more.

                          [–]RejectionEquality 8 points9 points  (8 children)

                          The real problem isn't marriage. It's the desire to procreate.

                          I 90% agree with "fuck marriage" but no seriously, fuck procreating. Get a vasectomy whether you are married or not, the younger the better. Your balls will thank you for it. Mine did.

                          The human race is slowly, surely on its way out. You're NOT likely to have the next Einstein. You're likely to have a convenience store clerk or a food service worker. Nothing wrong with those fine folks, but the point is your kids are not special.

                          [–]alpha_n3rd 1 point2 points  (4 children)

                          Genuinely curious how vasectomy affected your ejaculate?

                          [–]RejectionEquality 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                          Given that sperm accounts for 1-5, sometimes 10%, of ejaculate (depending who you ask), I can say: not much at all, from a statistical point of view.

                          From a qualitative perspective, again nothing really changed. It's still warm, thick, and smells a bit like Chlorox.

                          [–]1independentmale 5 points6 points  (2 children)

                          No affect at all as far as I can tell. Seems exactly the same as before.

                          [–][deleted]  (1 child)


                            [–]pantsoffire 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                            I got to disagree. Making a decision to remove that possibilty isn't beta. I could easily argue the permanence of that decision. It's a personal choice, just like your opinion. Opinions arn't facts. You don't get to color him beta just like feminists don't get to decide who is or isn't a Real Woman.

                            [–]MFWTKTA 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                            Haha I really want a child, but I don't want to pass on my genetics (I'm rather ugly if I say so myself) and in the country I'm in, in the state society is, I don't think it would be fair to do so. If I did I'd like to move somewhere in the country live a good life secluded from the bad parts of society when avoidable at small cost but in a position where we can also take advantage of the good side of society keeping it at arms reach. Also want a wife too but it feels like the whole love thing is temporary for women and even for some 'unicorns' though I guess they wouldn't be classed as one anymore. With what you said, it makes me really want there to be test to be able to have kids but then it would be almost impossible to enforce, as well eugenics should be a thing in my opinion, if not by law just by common sense, if you have a really bad disability, problem, disease, etc that is likely to pass on to a child then why not have a surrogate farther/mother to be fair to the child. There a girl I love who I can never have, this whole thing is far to complicated for me, I don't even know anymore. I would just try to get all the money I can but I can't even do that. My dream to move to US will never happen. Now this feels more like a cry for help than anything. I don't know I'm just confused. Hah I can't even think straight anymore. Meant to get help for Physios and possible paranoid schizophrenia and few other things that I don't think I have, that won't be happening. If there was a way I could raise my SMV and get to the US I would do it but there is no way for the second one, defeating the purpose of the first one. I would work towards it if I knew the way. Anyway yeah I wish we lived in a world where you could raise a child knowing that it's going to have a great life but I can't say that anymore, though I can say my child will be safe due to the healthcare and less disease in the world due to better technology. I'm sorry I forgot what I was even going to say. I agree with what you say the world has got better in many sense but worse in others, people are no more than a number anymore it seems.

                            [–]the_real_chronos 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                            Dude the US isn't what it used to be. Shut the fuck up and stop making excuses, make your life as better as it possibly can be and go create your own American Dream.

                            Go travel, see the world, find another place you want to live in if you really want out of your country, and then go carve your way into the world.

                            [–]FrenchMaybe 15 points16 points  (1 child)

                            Good luck with marriage, it's Russian roulette except 5 out of the 6 chambers have a bullet inside. Here's hoping you hit that 1/6.

                            It's like playing Russian roulette with a fully loaded Glock 19.

                            [–]MGTOW_player 35 points36 points  (10 children)

                            Vote with your actions, gentlemen. Because the gynocentric political system will not change to better our lives.

                            NEVER MARRY FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER.

                            Period. None.

                            If a woman was really a NAWALT and cared about men/you, she would forego marriage for your benefit and refuse to entrap you in any way, no matter your deluded persistence to the contrary.

                            [–][deleted]  (8 children)


                              [–]1johnnight 6 points7 points  (3 children)

                              Let's not build rules based on exceptions.

                              [–]MrMagwitch 4 points5 points  (3 children)


                              [–][deleted]  (2 children)


                                [–]DoctorWelch 6 points7 points  (9 children)

                                I have a question. I have read the LTR stuff and I will never sign a marriage contract, that is for sure, but I still wouldn't mind having a family in the future.

                                So, essentially my question is whether or not you guys think being straight up and honest with a woman about the relationship dynamic would be a good strategy. Obviously not telling her everything about TRP or trying to explain things like hypergamy and dread to her, but basically be like, "Listen, this isn't going to be some fairy tale romance. You are not a princess, and I am not a prince. You will love being with me, but you will have to follow me. If you are not comfortable with that, then goodbye." Or something along those lines.

                                I guess I've accepted everything about TRP except I'm still frustrated about the fact that we basically have to trick women into being good for an LTR. I want to just tell them whats up and if they reject it then move on, but I doubt that would ever work. Even if they agreed they would probably just be lying.

                                I guess the real question then becomes, if you are actually in an LTR with a woman you feel is one of the best you are going to find by RP standards, how would you tell her there will be no marriage contract? Just reject it and say you won't do it as if it is an obvious fact that you wouldn't do something like that and move on like its no big deal or what?

                                [–]ZenNate 9 points10 points  (8 children)

                                I don't think getting married or not is the real dangerous thing -- it's having children. Read this before deciding to have a child. It's a personal account of the worst case scenario in a divorce. None of it has to do with assets being divided. It's all about how losing income and not being able make a child support payment will effectively destroy your life.

                                Plus there is the emotional devastation of losing the child. This guy could only see his child twice a month and it destroyed his relationship with his son because it happened when the kid was 3 and so a permanent son-father bond wasn't able to take hold. The child rejected the Dad.

                                I'd like to have a child someday too, but I'm not sure the tremendous risk is worth it.

                                [–]ClassicGoth 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                                I actually have reproduced (inside marriage, now ex-marriage), and let me tell you: Children are as expensive as fuck. Figure that you can either pay for 2 kids or 2 new Mercedes payments every month.

                                I love my kids, I do. They're not "my world" or anything, but I love 'em. But sometimes I'd really rather have the Mercedes.

                                [–]DoctorWelch 1 point2 points  (5 children)

                                Yeah, it seems children are the real thing that makes marriage dangerous...yet children are really the only reason I would want to get married anyway.

                                Kind of sucks that the only reason to do it is the thing that makes it dangerous as hell.

                                I think the key to all of this would be to basically read the marriage law in your state and make sure the woman is going to agree to a prenup that is so far in your advantage that it essentially balances the whole thing out.

                                Edit: Maybe I will just get married and never have kids with my wife but donate to sperm banks to make sure I actually reproduce.

                                [–]Saturnalia93 32 points33 points  (15 children)

                                Agreed. At the very least, fuck state-sanctioned marriage. Talk about setting yourself up.

                                [–]TakeYourSoma1 45 points46 points  (12 children)

                                The alleged defenders of the institution of marriage would do well to fight our insane divorce and alimony laws instead of gay marriage laws. I can think of few other examples in the legal system where a person just gets absolutely railroaded. Saddam Hussein got a fairer trial than the average man going through divorce proceedings.

                                [–]17 Endorsed ContributorJP_Whoregan 44 points45 points  (11 children)

                                It's never going to happen, because no politician, Republican, Democrat, Ind, Green Party, Libertarian, not one of them would ever run for public office on a platform of family law reform. The National Organization for Women, XOJane, Huffington Post-Wall, Jizzabel, and the entire fem movement would label that guy a sexist and campaign that he hates women.

                                See, politicians know that, for the most part, men are dutiful by nature, and they will get out and vote because it is their civic duty to do so. But they also know that women are fickle by nature, and therefore need to be pandered to in order to get the woman vote. Women need to be scared into voting, i.e., "they're gonna take my birth control", or "they're gonna make abortion illegal omg".

                                Men vote based on a number of different factors; the economy, foreign policy, various non-gender social reforms (healthcare, etc), aligned moral values, etc.

                                Women don't give a shit about any of these things, generally. How do we know this? Look at where their primary concerns lie: free birth control, abortion access, and other "women's issues". Social concerns that have little to do with real problems, i.e., "are ISIS militants coming over the southern border" or "will our national debt have the Chinese crushing the US on the world market".

                                Conservatives and liberals alike have conceded family law to women, and it's never going to change, and if it does, it won't be in any of our lifetimes. Hence OP saying "Fuck Marriage".

                                [–]Overkillengine 34 points35 points  (8 children)

                                The quickest way to "make change happen" is for so many men to nope the fuck out of ever entering marriage contracts that women start screaming for changes because not even provider males will trot up to the corral for a "settling" marriage anymore.

                                Never negotiate from a position of weakness.

                                [–]17 Endorsed ContributorJP_Whoregan 32 points33 points  (7 children)

                                The quickest way to "make change happen" is for so many men to nope the fuck out of ever entering marriage contracts that women start screaming for changes because not even provider males will trot up to the corral for a "settling" marriage anymore.

                                The problem with your solution is that for every 2 Alpha men declining marriage, there are 8 Beta men frothing at the mouth for the opportunity to get access to some periodic duty sex in exchange for meeting the whimsical desires of a post-wall 32 year old who's convinced him he's "the best" because she's "chosen him" to "settle down" with. We are still massively outnumbered.

                                Also bear in mind the massive social stigma that friends, family, extended family, etc, put on men in the family to find a wife and marry up. There's still a huge cultural pressure on men to get married, a cultural pressure that is residual from the "old days" back when marriage meant a damn. The same Beta who worships his peer women, make no mistake, is also susceptible to the pressures from his mother, grandmother, aunts, and cousins that it is his "duty" to settle down and "raise a family".

                                The Beta male, by nature, frames his life around not disappointing people. And if his family makes it clear that not marrying will make him a "disappointment", he will wife up a Wall Slammer, make no mistake.

                                This is why I don't think it's really gonna change any time soon. Yes, there is a slow decline in the marriage rate, but I think it's more because a marginal percentage of men are making themselves "unmarriageable" by becoming Omega video game herbs in their parents basements, and an even more marginal percentage of Alpha cads are making the conscious decision to swear off marriage.

                                But there are still plenty of "eligible providers" out there, dutifully slaving away at a job, establishing provider credentials, all in hopes of snagging Suzy McPostwall.

                                [–]1rife_omeqa 16 points17 points  (1 child)

                                The same Beta who worships his peer women, make no mistake, is also susceptible to the pressures from his mother, grandmother, aunts, and cousins that it is his "duty" to settle down and "raise a family".

                                It's difficult to overstate the impact this has on our society. Every teenage boy growing up right now has 5+ women keeping him in his beta provider place and urging him to find a nice girl to settle down with.

                                Every beta male who's already settled adds to the problem by setting an example for the younger generation. If I go to family Christmas lunch this year I'll see 10+ couples. Each one of them has the exact same composition; 1 beta provider and 1 post wall high maintenance woman. These are the average couples in today's culture. The male who makes jokes about not upsetting "the wife" and "a happy wife is a happy life" etc. They play nicely in the pen their wives have setup for them. This is the status quo that young men grow up expecting and being comfortable with.

                                The status quo won't change. It's reinforced on too many levels. It's also the nature of the 80/20 rule. Most men grow up being grateful for any female attention they receive. The 80% are trying to find a woman to settle for. The 20% think the 80% are crazy and the 80% think the 20% are whatever their mothers/sisters/aunts/grandmothers/feminist media call them. Usually it's no life, loser, neckbeard, woman-haters.

                                [–]Overkillengine 5 points6 points  (1 child)

                                I am aware of those factors. I didn't say it would happen soon.

                                Just that it would happen faster the more men wake the hell up and realize what a shitty contract marriage is.

                                Maybe only a generation or two sooner, but better than not at all. Until then all we can do is cover our own asses.

                                [–]pissoutofmyass 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                I don't think it'll ever happen that a majority of men opt out, or even enough to have a significant effect.

                                Why? Because of the 80/20 rule. 20% are getting it, and the 80% that women won't sleep with except in a "serious" relationship are so sex starved they'll get on their knees and slave away for it.

                                [–]southernfriedcode 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                Are we really outnumbered?

                                Perhaps a bit silly, but recent events like gamergate are proof positive that men in this country are starting to wake up to the feminization of everything seen as masculine.

                                I know games are quite far removed from the stability of society but it is at least a glimmer that people are starting to wake up.

                                [–]guy2435 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                Also bear in mind the massive social stigma that friends, family, extended family, etc, put on men in the family to find a wife and marry up. There's still a huge cultural pressure on men to get married, a cultural pressure that is residual from the "old days" back when marriage meant a damn.

                                I could attest to this one. From a few of my visit to my mother years ago, she introduced me to friends of hers and she says I'm single, they ask for my age, I say 40, they looked at me odd like something is wrong with me followed by "Why aren't you married yet?", I give them my standard answer, "No luck in love I guess." and give them my meek poor boy smile. The younger ones they ask me if I'm a woman hater, I joke a response "I love women, in fact so many of them, its difficult to choose." this usually gives a laugh, but some will give me a look like I did a fucking crime. Just for fun I told them I'm gay, "Good for you.", my mom's eyes went wide, a "wtf why would you tell my friends that, now you'll never going to get married" eyes, in my mind I was laughing so hard. Damn they might be more accepting if I was gay than I am a straight single 40 year old guy.

                                [–]alpha_n3rd 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                                There's still a huge cultural pressure on men to get married, a cultural pressure that is residual from the "old days" back when marriage meant a damn

                                Ugh tell me about it. The words of my family encouraging me to marry echo in my head whenever my wife flips out.

                                [–]MightyTaint 6 points7 points  (1 child)

                                The question quickly becomes, why the fuck does the state need to be a part in where I put my dick on a regular basis?

                                [–]Mybicepshurts 23 points24 points  (3 children)

                                You guys crack me up! If no one gets married but just the dumb asses then America is doomed. Hell I've been married 27 years. yeah it's a bunch of work but I'm proud of my boys. You just got to Red pill up and run the fucking show. And that also includes managing your dogs. I fuckin hate people who can't control their pets!

                                [–]circlhat 11 points12 points  (0 children)

                                Marriage isn't marriage today, it is divorce corp and it screws over both men and women with legal red tape and if children are involved dear god.

                                There was a time when getting divorced was difficult, now a women can take half of what you own and for some odd reason get paid to baby your kid

                                [–]Obsessory 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                Hilarious. Alpha BL is AMAZINGLY effective on large dogs. I've alpha'd the two dogs I'm w/ at the moment with dominant voice and body language and one just slinks off everytime he sees me while the huge dominant one literally kisses my ass and submits every time he sees me. So fucking hilarious.

                                [–]2 Endorsed ContributorFLFTW16 38 points39 points  (18 children)

                                I will be the lone person to offer a contrary viewpoint, then. I respectfully disagree with the OP. I think men that give up the idea of marriage & family are giving in to defeat. You are taking a temporary circumstance and making predictions about the distant future, the very same thing you accuse men who marry of doing by entering a lifelong contract!

                                The question in my mind is: will I be a product of my environment, or will my environment be a product of me?

                                Things look like shit right now, that is indisputable. But there are many instances in history where things looked hopeless, but good men put their energy toward a brighter future and turned the tide and eventually won.

                                A couple of examples: Religion: for the first couple of hundred years of Christianity it was regarded as a strange cult. The Romans took great pleasure in beheading Christians, or feeding them to the lions in the Colosseum. To be a Christian was to have a target on your forehead. They held secret meetings and told no one of their beliefs. The wider society treated them as worthless. But they persevered and today Christianity covers all corners of the globe and is the largest religion in the world.

                                Those early Christians were in a fight club or TRP forum of their time. They went against the grain of society. Many were sacrificed and lost everything, but they saw themselves as understanding truth, and once you open your eyes to truth you can never close them again.

                                Revolution: the first few years of the American revolution against Great Britain were a disaster. The Americans were outgunned, outclassed. They couldn't even afford boots or uniforms. They were going up against the greatest military machine the world had ever seen, the highly disciplined, well armed, well equipped and resupplied British army and navy. To make matters worse, only about 1/3 of Americans wanted independence, 1/3 wanted to remain loyal, and 1/3 were neutral to what was happening. But those who wanted freedom from Britain persevered at great cost. At a critical point in time the French came to assist and helped the Americans win independence. But remember, the first few years were met with defeat after defeat, even by America's top commander, Washington. What if they gave up early on?

                                Look at the LGBT crusade that has been going on. Just some 30 years ago gays were heavily closeted, and there have been many highly publicized incidents of hate crimes. LGBT peoples coordinated and pooled resources to change the laws, change the culture, and today gays can marry in some states. Did gays change the culture by saying "Just give up, enjoy the decline!" or by saying "Fuck the status quo, let's change this!"

                                You have to always remind yourself that your perceptions may change, or that you may be wrong about the current state of things. Very few were suggesting "fuck marriage" in 2007 when the housing market was booming, the stock market was doing fine, and most of the middle class was sharing in the prosperity of the time. Come 2008, 2009, the economy fell out the bottom, the stock market fell, the economy went into recession, women's skirts became longer, people buckled down and prepared for poverty. Some people outright killed themselves and their families when the recession hit. At the same time as the middle class was getting squeezed, rich people just held onto their assets. They never gave up on marriage. Rich people know that stability in life is very important, which is why they marry and stay married.

                                What if all this 'fuck marriage' talk is really about economic insecurity? What if things will change for the better in the future? Society can swing wildly in different directions. Red pill awareness is really just starting to gain traction. There are signs that more and more average people are fed up with feminism's bullshit. It starts with discontent and disbelief.

                                If you tell a girl you are dating that you will never get married and she stays with you, in my opinion that is a red flag that she is a low quality person. A quality woman wants marriage and family. A woman that stays as a long term girlfriend likes the idea that she can dissolve the relationship and branch swing with maximum convenience and the least amount of emotional fallout.

                                Marriage is a thousands-of-years-old tradition that spans all human cultures. It's not going away. Ritual, tradition, and binding agreements are male inventions. Marriage was a male invention to tie woman to man, to make her feel secure to have children. High quality women have a high preference for traditions and rituals. Low quality women ride the carousel then "go through the motions" to look socially acceptable. Don't abandon marriage, abandon CC riders that, through their actions, show they don't respect tradition.

                                [–]magus678 17 points18 points  (0 children)

                                Great post, and well written, but I would still have to agree with OP.

                                The day may come where marriage is something approaching equitable for men, but I think our best chance to make that happen is withdrawing our support of it until it does. Our modern society is set up in such a way that peaceful noncompliance is practically all we can do.

                                We have to hope that eventually women gain some insight and finally put that slavering beast called feminism down.

                                I wouldn't say I'm optimistic, but there are still some women whose brains still work. Maybe over time we will create more

                                [–]circlhat 8 points9 points  (11 children)

                                Marriage is fine, a contract with the state is not.

                                My LTR doesn't believe in government anyway so I got lucky, there is no reeason to get married and you can still fight to change laws.

                                There are 0 benefits , if you remain separate you can have separate debts

                                If one of you fucks up your credit the other person is right next to you.

                                [–]MGTOW_player 16 points17 points  (2 children)

                                "Marriage is a thousands-of-years-old tradition that spans all human cultures. It's not going away. Ritual, tradition, and binding agreements are male inventions. Marriage was a male invention to tie woman to man, to make her feel secure to have children. High quality women have a high preference for traditions and rituals. Low quality women ride the carousel then "go through the motions" to look socially acceptable. Don't abandon marriage, abandon CC riders that, through their actions, show they don't respect tradition."

                                Your advice is based on a marriage concept which NO LONGER EXISTS.

                                But let's just throw our freedoms and security to the wind because our gynocentric society and legal system wants us to! We're just disposable males after all! Sperm donors and ATM machines.

                                FLFTW16, I know we have argued respectfully about this in the past, and here I am arguing with you again, respectfully.

                                But the advice you give, from the perspective of a man who thinks men should strive for a society which goes back to benefiting men, is pointless self-sacrificial gynocentric advice which will hurt far, far more men that it will ever help.

                                The past 50 years are a testament to that.

                                To all men: Anyone who suggests men to marry is not giving advice to help you.

                                I know nature does not care about your happiness. It just wants you to reproduce no matter how fucked or miserable you are in the end.

                                Men must reject this system which EATS US; built on our biology over the millenia and exploited most expertly "recently" by our gynocentric programming in both men and women and thus the legal and financial systems which are born out of this programming.

                                We are humans after all, not animals! We must stop marching men to their doom. Otherwise things will never change and will continue to get worse for men.

                                [–]2 Endorsed ContributorFLFTW16 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                                I like respectful debates, so I appreciate and upvote your rebuttal. I think men need to hear both sides and decide for themselves. In some ways I think going on strike and MGTOW is the right response. If the only women a guy ever interacts with are CC-riding feminists, by all means abandon marriage.

                                There are guys out there that find red pill women that want a traditional, male-led relationship, that want a family, they will stick by their man and not branch swing. Guys that enjoy tradition and stability that find a woman that enjoys the same should take the plunge together. As someone said in a different post, all military flag officers are married, almost all presidents are married. Rich people get married and stay married. People of wealth, power, prestige, and good breeding form dynasties. Those who stay married are like neo-royalty. If you want to be them, act accordingly.

                                If a man wants to sire bastard children and never stick his own neck out by marrying, it is his right to do so, but he is abandoning patriarchy--the only familial system that results in civilization--by doing so. Since I am not a nihilist, and I want a positive future for Western Civ, I think there is still time to turn things around. So my advice comes from a place of optimism. That being said, I also believe that men who get "disposed of" have a duty to burn shit down. The government has empowered women to win cash and prizes for destroying families. But a man can negate this with his capacity to destroy life and property. Men are cuckolded and robbed only by their own unwillingness to exact justice for crimes committed against them.

                                Hopefully this further elucidates my philosophy on marriage. I don't advocate men just "go in" and hope for the best. It really must have dire consequences. Just as women have the threat of force, so do men.

                                [–]1sailorJery 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                all military flag officers are married, almost all presidents are married.

                                That's all politics. Flag officers are appointed by congress and President's elected. Being married is a shrewd political decision, but not a shrewd happiness decision. Unless you find yourself a woman like in House of Cards and she lets you sleep around so long as she gets to fuck around, but then marriage has changed from being a basic unit of society to a sham. Which is what is usually argued here anyways. Marriage is a sham.

                                [–]1oldredder 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                so much no.

                                Religion is poison, more now than ever before.

                                Marriage? Women? Invest what in them for what return precisely? So much no today.

                                I wouldn't trust anything more than 0.5% of women on EARTH to stand a chance of being a decent wife & I'd go right to 0.00000% in any nation with divorce-rape laws.

                                [–][deleted]  (3 children)


                                  [–]Burner1701 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                                  Yeah, you've probably been apart for 6 years for a reason. I don't know why you can't spend more time with your son though, can't you live nearby and take him for alternate weeks or something? My sister and her ex were amicable and did that all through the kids' childhoods.

                                  [–][deleted]  (1 child)


                                    [–]dj10show 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                                    "really good government job" = tried to/got her fucks, now she wants to come back to her bucks.

                                    [–]VegasHostTre 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                                    Amen. Reminds me of the best advice I ever got regarding relationships

                                    "If your bitch ain't crazy, its because she's cheating."

                                    -St. Bernard Frog-

                                    [–]KissTheBridesmaid 6 points7 points  (1 child)

                                    Great post, thanks! I decided a while ago that marriage is not for me. I live in Europe where divorce rape isn’t as bad as in the states, but it’s still not a wise gamble, and getting worse by the day. More importantly for me it’s just not the lifestyle I want. I do not want to spend all of my spare time with a woman, and unfortunately in marriage this is what they demand.

                                    My life is much better when I spend the majority of my time with other men. It makes me productive, relaxes me, helps me improve and motivates me. Most time spent with a woman is emotionally draining at best. It’s the last thing I want to do when I get home from a long day at work. Don’t get me wrong, in moderation they are an absolute delight, especially at the beginning of a relationship when they are trying to show you how perfect they are by doing everything right. But eventually the nagging/complaining/draining starts.

                                    Marriage is supposed to be a mutually beneficial partnership that allows a man and a woman to carry on their genetic line. The man requires a woman to reproduce and to rear children. The Woman requires a man to provide her with the environment and resources to do this.

                                    The roles are complementary. Each participant in this partnership has evolved to fill this role. Evolutionary adaptation has not only provided women with the tools required to raise children, it has also ensured this process is pleasurable for them. In this situation women fulfil their biological and evolutionary ‘destiny’.

                                    Men have definitely not evolved to enjoy sitting at a desk for 8 hours a day. But men have evolved the ability to put up with shitty situations if it means providing a safe environment for our offspring to be raised in. This can be anything from risking your life in a war in order provide collective safety for your group / country, to working a dangerous job in a coal mine, to boring the fuck out of yourself in a shitty office job. In the past, women were (rightfully) extremely grateful for this arrangement. Why women stopped being happy with this baffles me (well only to a certain point, as women are also hardwired to have a higher propensity to complain / ask for help / position themselves as victims).Nevertheless, the above described situation is no longer possible, since women have decided they don’t like it that way, ironically landing themselves in a position that makes them even less happy.

                                    So anyways, more ranting to myself here than anything else, but this here is the part I would appreciate some input on:

                                    I am now 35. I have been led to believe that the fact that I do not have children and never have been married, will make women think there is something wrong with me. Considering the sources, I would usually dismiss this, However in their attempts to shame me out of the bachelor lifestyle, these white knights and women have (albeit inadvertently) pointed out that as an older man, marriage or having kids means pre-selection. Even if you are divorced. It means that in the past, a woman wanted your offspring /commitment. If you are 40, never married, no kids, women may assume that this was not the case for you. Do you think there is any substance to this theory?

                                    [–]TekkomanKingz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                    In Europe that perception should not be a concern as it is not pervasive like it is here in the U.S.

                                    No reason to get married in Europe unless you are bringing in a wife from outside the EU.

                                    [–]10J18R1A 4 points5 points  (4 children)

                                    I'm STILL waiting for a reasonable answer to "why should MEN get married?" And I'd continue waiting, because there isn't one. All it is is financial insurance for the woman. It does not add love to a relationship, it doesn't strengthen a relationship, and if it's all about the ceremony and the commitment, those can be done without the one sided business contact.

                                    The post nails it...the power to walk away is a necessary one to retain.

                                    But I'll await an answer.

                                    [–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan[S] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

                                    You'll be waiting a long time dude. All you're gonna hear are male hamsters.

                                    Now if that guy is upper middle class and wants to enter high society, fair enough he's being machiavellian, not an idiot. Everybody else getting married is an idiot. Well, specifically the men, the women are doing what's best for their sexual strategy, which surprise, surprise, will see you out on the street if you allow it to flourish to its natural conclusion.

                                    [–]10J18R1A 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                    Oh, I know it. It's just so fun to see the badly misused statistics (married people live longer, that must mean signing this contract is the cause!) and extraordinarily illogical rationale(it makes it harder to leave so you have to work out problems- I'm, what?) that spews forth from women with an obvious self interest in keeping the institution of marriage alive, as well as from men who are seeking justification for what they'll consider a regret 73% of their income later.

                                    I'm aware that was a run on sentence, but that's what men should do when marriage is on the table, run on. Marriage has shit to do with love and everything to do with obtaining financial security for doing nothing more than what you're supposed to be doing , being a good wife and if it comes to it, mother. Sacrifices aren't refundable.

                                    [–]BluepillProfessor 9 points10 points  (0 children)

                                    Love your work IM. For the record, I am currently happily married and have been married for more than 21 years- more than 5 of them happily.

                                    All of your allegations are true.

                                    Marriage takes your one card away that gives you any measure of power over a woman. Your ability to walk away. You need to be able to withdraw your commitment at any time and be able to imply that you can actionably do that via dread game without a massive nuke going off. Even your ability to affect dread is weakened once you're married.

                                    [–]zuk1 8 points9 points  (5 children)

                                    Fuck marriage.

                                    What are the pros? I can never think of any. You can do anything you can do married in a normal LTR, marriage is purely to satisfy a womans urge to get married. If she can't be happy with you UNLESS you're married than obviously you're getting married for the wrong reasons, and this is the case nearly 100% of the time.

                                    There are plenty of cons.

                                    [–][deleted]  (4 children)


                                      [–]zuk1 2 points3 points  (3 children)

                                      What are the pros in western culture then.

                                      [–][deleted]  (4 children)


                                        [–]mrxentrix 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                                        That's dark

                                        [–]jm51 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                        Are prenups really helpful or can they be busted in court?

                                        [–]Purecorrupt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                        You should do an AMA. I'd be curious to hear your opinions, theories, and experiences on the entire subject.

                                        [–]Moneyley 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                                        Excellent post. I hope that getting married becomes a package that's attractive to a man as it is to anybody getting a job. Women speak of equality but a marriage is a one sided binding contract that basically says to the man "yea your screwed but sign here and here because its what is supposed to define you"

                                        [–]NotReallyEthicalLOL 3 points4 points  (3 children)

                                        What if you're marrying them for the stock? I want a legacy, and I need women to do that.

                                        [–]TekkomanKingz 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                                        I have several problems with this post:

                                        • The true definition of a unicorn would make them exempt from such activities described in this post, am I wrong?

                                        • Not at all factoring in international marriages and expatriation options which typically benefit the male more so than the female. In the Philippines you cannot get divorced, therefore the Men hold all the power. In many countries outside North America and Western Europe women stand to lose a lot in divorce and therefore it is discouraged. There are ways to protect yourself while reaping the benefits of the institution to bring a decent woman here from overseas. Not only can you use a pre-nup but you can combine it with I-864W form which absolves you of any responsibility to the federal government in re-compensating them for any public benefits used should you divorce your alien wife. She just needs to have had worked in the U.S. for 10 years and paid social security. Returning to expatriation: Marriage is the easiest way to residency and citizenship abroad. You can establish businesses in your wife's home country and capitalize on education and qualification disparities if you are from a developed nation and if she is from a developing one.

                                        • As mentioned by other commenters it has social benefits. The IRS is less harsh on you (as long as you are the primary breadwinner of course) you are considered more employable and you spend less time focusing on women. You are able to take sex when you need it and focus on more on making money and improve yourself as a man. Spinning plates takes time and energy. You are able to take advantage of cultural connections in your wife's homeland for business purposes. As long as you marry foreign, do a background check on the family, katfax, get a balanced and fair prenup for all parties that won't be thrown out in court (nothing but financial matters should be apart of one, there are no mythical prenups which contain weight gain contingencies) and get a post-nup if your income goes up significantly, along with not marrying a foreign woman with no work experience i don't see the problem. You've done your due diligence you can rest easy at night knowing worst case scenario the divorce will take 30 days and not 3 years.

                                        [–]TheWindyCity 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                                        "If you ain't no punk holla we want prenup WE WANT PRENUP! Yeah It's something that you need to have 'Cause when she leave yo ass she gonna leave with half"

                                        So true Kanye...So true...

                                        [–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                        Be funny to see how things pan out with him and Kim K.

                                        [–]krakosia 5 points6 points  (1 child)

                                        Hi Illimitableman. Are you alright? This post doesn't seem in alignment with your usual writings. Did something change?

                                        [–]TekkomanKingz 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                                        A comrade in arms got fucked up the ass that's probably what happened.

                                        [–]Julian_Berryman 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                        Your post makes a lot of sense and I have seen a few marriages in those around me play out badly. My parents, friends, my brother.

                                        Despite that, I still got married very young - we're still together. Upon reflection it was a case of one-itis I suppose, but even looking back I can't identify any red flags that I overlooked naively. I don't regret the decision, but only because I was very lucky and married an amenable women who was raised with traditional values. This wasn't down to some expert character judgement on my part, it was pure luck. I was completely blind to the value of those traits then.

                                        By saying this it might sound like I'm trying to perpetate the myth. It hasn't been easy. It certaintly doesn't come effortlessly, and it is really hard to maintain frame 16 hours of every day, for 14 years (in my case). So there have been times when I have slipped and things went off an even keel. Nothing serious has ever happened as a result, because I'm pretty good at identifying when things are starting to falter. Nevertheless, it is exhausting.

                                        Financially speaking, should we ever seperate, in my country, the government can garnish 12% of my gross salary for my son, maximum, that decreases (as a percentage) as I earn more. That also decreases if I have him overnight more than once a week on average. My wife and I also earn roughly the same, and have similar earning potential long term, so I'm not going to get butthurt about her taking half of my (our) stuff.

                                        So what's the point of this post? Well, of everyone I have ever met, I am probably in the most fortunate position when it comes to marriage. So if this the best it can be (from my perspective), getting married is pointless. I don't have anything in my life that couldn't have happened had I remained single, except I am now shackled to a situation. I'm not bothered by what I am shackled to, but sometimes I think having the freedom to run away at a moments notice, even if I think I never will, is a mental safety net I will not get to enjoy.

                                        [–]AchillesOtherLeg 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                        For the marriage advocates who say that the key to marriage is to maintain a high SMV.

                                        If you successfully maintain a high SMV then you continue to have access to whichever women you require so still no need to marry.

                                        [–]crazydave1979 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                                        Sometimes my parents ask me when I'm going to marry my gf.. I usually say, well I have a lot to lose.. Can you think of anything I have to gain?? I never get an answer

                                        [–]General_Fear 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                        Someone here said "cohabitation creates a legal de facto marriage"

                                        Divorce lawyers are lobbying government to expand common law marriage. Because according to them, "single women who cohabit need protection" Bull. Divorce lawyers just want to increase business and line their pockets.

                                        So don't be surprised if the state you live in passes common law marriage and makes the law retro active catching men who live together with their girlfriend.

                                        [–]MoneyStatusLooks 2 points3 points  (2 children)

                                        It's not as bad as you make out. You can do marriage smart:

                                        1) Pre nup is madatory.

                                        2) Have your SMV so sky high, run dread etc. Women know when they are on to a good thing. If you have your shit together and are a 9/10 man in status/money/looks/frame, and are married and have kids, shes not gonna throw it away on the off chance a 10/10 man comes around. And to be fair, when a 10/10 man comes around your 9/10 bitch is now 40 with kids, he won't be interested.

                                        Women chuck it away when cashing out is greater than future benefits. If you have money and are bringing her no emotional benefits/are emotionally abusive, thats when she will chuck it away. Or if you have NO money, and there is a better potential beta bux around the corner, then she will chuck it away.

                                        What I do find interesting is there is some form of male solopsism going on here. That apparently women will just so easily throw it away and that a man is defeated and has no control over the outcome here. Let me tell you this, if you have your shit together and chose the right woman, she aint gonna be looking elsewhere.

                                        Did you know that some crazy amount of businesses fail. I think its something like 9/10 in the first 5 years. No one is going around telling you business is toxic. There is some kind of confirmation bias going on here and as much as you don't want to here it, like attracts like, if you are neurotic and crazy, you will attract neurotic and crazy. Or unbalanced and insecure you will attract unbalanced and insecure. It's just male solopsism is completely unable to recognise that they have their own part in this and they are responsible for attracting everything in their life. No more victim mentality.

                                        If you are balanced and have your shit together, you won't settle down with someone unless they are on the same kind of level as you. The fact most people cannot see that kind of introspection or won't look at their own flaws is kind of funny. Especially here, since that is encouraged.

                                        Personally, at some point in my life I want to be married and have kids, but I know that:

                                        The only way to actually rest assured that your not likely to be screwed over is 1) pre nup 2) be the evolutionary jackpot for your partner. And even if there is a 50/50 chance of it failing, I am going to do everything in my power to reduce those odds before I commit. This is because I know having a wife, family and legacy will be something that will make me happy at some point. So instead of pussying out, I am going to do it right.

                                        Also if you pick the right woman. You know, sweet, good middle class parents, raised properly, both her parents still happily married, she will find it shameful to get a divorce even though society has changed. My current LTR said that if she got married she would find getting divorced completely shameful and like she made a huge mistake in her life. This is because her parents had the christian/death till us part model and she has seen that her whole life and thats her model. But good luck finding more of those, thats probably a 1/100 right there.

                                        Oh yeah, and good luck getting a woman like that to agree to have kids with you without marriage. Their frame will be just as strong as yours that marriage and financial protection is mandatory if they are going to breed to you. And to be honest, it's pretty much a fair exchange if you want a high value woman. You can't just have 100% of the power and they have none, thats not a relationship, thats abusive slave/servant relationship. Anyway, i digress, this is long enough.

                                        [–][deleted]  (1 child)


                                          [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                                          This. Was. Epic. Godbless for your brevity. I am 23 and will avoid the FUCK out of this bullshit

                                          [–]esperanzablanca 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                                          I have seen my own wealthy friends pass from living in a mansion, to live in a cochroach infested 4x4 place in a skid row just for marrying and thinking they got "the right one". If you have some wealth, you need figureheads and secret accounts with your wealth. I'm homeless for the state I live, so go ahead, sue me ... And every parent, if you have male kids, shoul teach this to their kids, to preserve the legacy of the family and the wealth, you must be very wary of the scam of marriage.

                                          [–]jcslzr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                          as I see it, the married man ends up in a very weak position, where is hard to keep being desirable and feeling like a man...before you marry you call all the shots once you are married you are at the mercy of your wife, you go from James Bond to Pewee Herman, you wont get the same response

                                          [–]1oldredder 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                          Special exception: politics where both are politicians. I'll bet Hilary Clinton has saved Bill's balls more times than he can count & herself makes bold moves riding on his reputation, including behind-the-scenes stuff.

                                          For Bill Clinton his marriage makes sense. Yes, she's got him by the balls but she gives him a lot of saves and lee-way too.

                                          For the rest of us it's a dumb fucking idea.

                                          [–]Bearhardy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                          Slow clap, that was a beutifully put rant let ne tell you

                                          [–]wickedwildewolf 2 points3 points  (2 children)

                                          I live in a country where divorce is cheap and quick, and laws don't favour women. That's a much different reality.

                                          [–]1oldredder 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                                          please share where this is

                                          [–]le_king_falcon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                          Ahh being Redpilled by the divorce. Such fond memories /s

                                          I had an LTR once who could never understand why marriage would never ever be on the table.

                                          I told her about my mother's behaviour during her divorce. Marriage never ever got brought up again despite us dating for another 18 months.

                                          Anyway this was a good post about something that needs repeating and reinforcing whilst we go about correcting the signal to noise ratio of the sub.

                                          [–]pickledpeas 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                                          I'm pretty sure that schizophrenia and other neurological disorders are more prevalent in males.

                                          However you are bang on with most other points. Thanks for the read.

                                          [–]mctoasterson 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                                          Putting aside some of the vitriol in this rant, it is a good overall point. I think that critics of TRP are often lacking in substantive rebuttal of points like these. They get lost in some of the seeming anger and bitterness that comes through in the tone of these rants. However, its clear that critical thinking is present in your assessment. TRP is, on the whole, about critical thinking and applying it to social and sexual dynamics.

                                          So many of us go through life without the slightest bit of introspection as to why it is we are doing what we are doing.

                                          My perception is that for a growing contingent of men, the only answer they can come up with to the question "Why did you get married?" is "because it seemed like the next logical step". I would argue that this is not a good enough answer for someone who has really thought about the implications for his long term happiness.

                                          [–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                          My perception is that for a growing contingent of men, the only answer they can come up with to the question "Why did you get married?" is "because it seemed like the next logical step". I would argue that this is not a good enough answer for someone who has really thought about the implications for his long term happiness.

                                          Hear, hear! Exactly what I'm getting at. Although it is a rant, it is meant to sound like we've both had a few beers, you're having girl problems and I'm laying it out like a honest friend that gives a fuck would. That means lots of swearing.

                                          [–]NotReallyEthicalLOL 1 point2 points  (6 children)

                                          If you get a pre-nup what does she have over me?