all 153 comments

[–]trpthrowaway28 393 points394 points  (10 children)

what if you say "I just got out of a bad friendship and I not looking for new friends right now?"

[–]Rock2MyBeat 34 points35 points  (0 children)

She'd probably laugh and start sucking your dick.

Edit: contractions are hard on Swype.

[–]Mr_Andry 42 points43 points  (0 children)

Had to read that twice. Good one.

[–]widec 13 points14 points  (0 children)

But I'm sure there's people out there who would love to be your friend!

[–]ric2b 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Now I'm hoping a girl says she wants to be just friends just so I can use that!

[–]1exit_sandman 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's golden.

And someone actually gilded it!

[–]RedHeimdall 64 points65 points  (7 children)

"Let's just be friends" = "Your SMV is too low for me"

[–]brotherjustincrowe 11 points12 points  (0 children)

"Friends" = "you play host to my parasitism."

[–][deleted]  (4 children)


    [–]Smekiz 7 points8 points  (1 child)

    Who the fuck thanks people for not raping you? Shit is fucked up

    [–]1Padre55 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Had the opposite experience, more "it was so great being with you! You did not pressure for sex, so let's go have sex!"

    I think God had a real sense of humor when women were put on the planet

    [–]∞ Red Pill VisionaryRollo-Tomassi 22 points23 points  (2 children)

    Playing Friends:

    The LJBF rejection also serves as an ego preservation for her in that having offered the false olive branch of ‘friendship’ to him in her rejection she can also sleep that night knowing that she (and any of her peers) wont think any less of herself. After all, she offered to be friends, right? She is absolved of any feelings of personal guilt or any responsibilities for his feelings if she still wants to remain amiable with him.

    Men get a LJBF rejection because of a process. These are the “friends first” mindset guys; the guys who put far too much emphasis on a solitary woman and wait her out until the perfect moment to attempt to escalate to intimacy, at which point her most comfortable rejection (Buffer) is to LJBF. This is made all the more easy for her because of the process the guy used to get to that point.

    Virtually all guys who get to the point of a LJBF rejection come to it because they fall in line with some variation of what I call a Sniper Mentality. They patiently wait for their one target, to the exception of all others, constantly attempting to prove their quality in doing so – meaning they emphasize a comfort level and try to be friends before lovers. In essence they believe that desexualizing themselves will make them more attractive (by virtue of not being like “other guys”) because they’ve bought into the idea that a woman must be comfortable with them first before they initiate intimacy. Once the AFC gets to a point where he’s mustered enough courage to initiate, and he feels she ‘should’ be comfortable enough to appreciate him as boyfriend material, the Sniper takes his shot.

    Friends Like These:

    “No, thanks.”

    So then how do you go about it? Some have offered the blunt “I have enough friends” line, but you’ll deal with the social fallout of such an overt counter-rejection and most likely get the “you’re an asshole response”. Depending on how comfortable you are with that I’d say it’s fair game, but don’t expect her not to behave like this. Women’s easiest recourse at that point would be to think all you were interested in was fucking her. I realize how shitty that seems, particularly when most guy’s getting the LJBF are there after having tried for months to get to the point of pressing the issue of intimacy and applying all the effort and personal investments (not limited to just missing other better opportunities). How could she possibly come to the conclusion that all you wanted was to get in her pants? It’s her only social acceptable, ego-preserving recourse, despite all you did to “prove” yourself up to then.

    There’s couple of better ways however. One is allowing her to deliver the LJBF and let it roll off. You don’t have to be a prick and say “thanks, but no thanks.” You could simply let the rejection go and strategically withdraw – so long as you think you can do so. Cut off all contact and move on to spinning plates as you should have been anyway. This is simple pragmatism, if not a bit introverted, but the end result is the same – she gets the message that you’re no longer wasting yourself on her as a cause.

    The other way is a the assertive counter rejection. This is not an overt “I have enough friends” response, but rather a drawing of attention to the social contrivance she’s using and explaining it to her in direct terms.

    After her LJBF, you can say, “I really wish I could be your friend, but I’d really thought we meant more to each other than that after so long, and honestly, I’m looking for more. Sorry, but I guess I was wrong about you.”

    I wouldn’t use this verbatim as some kind of script to follow, but this approach effectively puts the onus of the rejection back on her and makes her aware of the LJBF as a rejection. It’s very similar to a neg hit in that it puts her into a position of not qualifying for your own intimacy. The idea is to defuse any “he just wanted to fuck me” ideas and draw attention to it as a rejection. The problem with a LJBFs as a social convention for women is that it’s gotten to a point where it’s a default, autonomous response, and not a real rejection of intimacy. It’s become such a useful tool that women no longer understand the latent function of it. When they’re made aware of it, in a responsible way, recognizing the rejection aspect is unavoidable. In a rational world it’s a Man’s responsibility to approach, initiate, be decisive, etc. with a woman, it should be incumbent on a woman to give him a straight rejection or acceptance of his approach. Unfortunately not all of us are mature enough at any given stage to do so, so we develop social contingencies to cope with uncomfortable circumstance.

    [–]2fatpernis 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    My gut says the counter rejection is too butthurt/weak a response.

    These days I'm never in a position to counter reject because I never come close to the friend zone in the first place. But if I had to, I would just withdraw my attention and go for other women.

    The counter rejection is weak. Withdrawing attention might not be a strong response, but at least it is a smart response. Thoughts?

    [–]redrandoman 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I think it (withdrawl) can be viewed as a stong response because if they come back to you or ask why you've been distant etc. It can easily go right back to them. E.g. "We ain't in a relationship, stop being so needy."

    [–]rpdoomed 68 points69 points  (22 children)

    This is truth. The biggest key here is being able to walk away. The ability to walk away from a situation that isn't to your exact specifications and liking is going to help you in more aspects of your life than just avoiding the friend zone. Here are some anecdotal, and quick FR, where being able to walk away has helped me in my life:

    1 - Plate tried to con me into an LTR by saying if we were going to keep having sex we needed to date. I kicked her out of my house, she drove back 5 minutes later, apologized, and we kept fucking for another few months, before I got bored.

    2 - Had a job offer that wasn't to my liking. It was better than what I was currently getting, but not what I wanted to find. I said no, told them what it would take to get me, and they contacted me a few days later to tell me they would hire me on my terms.

    Being willing to walk away is a key in life. It inflates your personal value, SMV or otherwise, and it is a key mentality that will protect you from oneitis.

    [–]SwissPablo 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    It's important to ask why do some men prefer to stay rather than walk away. They think at any moment the woman will suddenly have a change of heart and realize what she's missing. Even the farthest hope can keep a hungry man going, and women know this.

    Say no, because once a woman has made her mind up it will never change.

    [–]Overkillengine 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Hope is the greatest lie men ever get taught.

    [–]ilikepamela 14 points15 points  (17 children)

    While this is true, I feel most of the time if you don't have a backup plan you might not be willing to risk it as much. For example, in this case you already had a job that you liked, so saying no to a better paying job that is not what you want was a risk-free decision since you had your other job as a backup plan.

    If you were not employed (had no job or worked at McDonald's) and then they offered you the same well-paid job that you don't necessarily like, would you have done the same thing and walked away?

    [–]LoyalLuBu 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    if you don't have a backup plan

    That's why it's important to have a backup plan. People mentioned abundance mentality regarding relationships, and it's true in the employment domain as well. Be attractive to as many companies as possible, keep your resume up to date, and have a solid emergency fund to work with if it takes a while to find a situation you're satisfied with.

    If my employer pulled some bullshit, I'd be fine with seeking out a new job, and with quitting before I found something if it was really bad. I have enough reasonably liquid funds to sustain my lifestyle for a few years without any earned income, so I can afford to be picky. Your level of wealth isn't too different from your SMV in terms of how they offer opportunities.

    [–]chairmobile 10 points11 points  (11 children)

    Well the point of trp is to improve your value to the point where you do have options, or the potential to have options.

    The unemployed guy taking the fast food job is the lonely beta taking the friendzone; it's the best they can get so they force themselves to make do. Trp means you turn down such shitty arrangements because you have value enough to already have better.

    [–]GoDiscuss 10 points11 points  (4 children)

    Right, so if you're starting at SMV Ground Zero, you may have to endure some shitty situations as you work your way up. Maybe even some shitty friendships with shitty girls (if you virtually have no friends).

    [–]chairmobile 19 points20 points  (3 children)

    Well I'd say if your smv is that low you should be focusing on improving yourself, not wasting time on dead end girls who already see you as a beta.

    In the same way, it's better to invest in your education (even a technical school or community college can greatly magnify your job value if you out in the effort) rather than pursue a dead end job. In the short term, sure you see no girls or make no money. But that's all small fry not worth your time.

    Don't settle for that shitty job or friendzone. If those are your options, turn them down to improve yourself until they aren't your options. This is the core of trp.

    [–]GoDiscuss 8 points9 points  (2 children)

    I think you're right, but I thought we established as a community that you should never go full Monk Mode. Social interaction of some kind is necessary to improve social skills, which are an essential part of SMV.

    I'm not saying let a girl trample over you or even abuse you in the slightest. I'm saying maybe you should talk to a boring girl and try to get along with her as best you can if you aren't capable of having more interesting friends at that point in your life. Having a few boring girls around may even translate to pre-selection for a girl a bit higher in SMV, so that can be the first rung on your ladder.

    [–]chairmobile 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Fair enough, that's a valid point.

    As long as you can keep yourself from becoming satisfied, settling temporarily isn't the end of the world.

    [–]1wiseclockcounter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I agree with your point. While they may not be the best prospects available, meeting people, gaining experiences, and having stories to tell is pretty indispensable. Realistically, it's impossible to be careening towards your goals so quickly that you don't have time to hang out with people at all. Making time for chance encounters, even with people you would never want to hang out with normally, or who render your fate unpredictable, can be a valuable choice. For example, just this past thanksgiving, I was out drinking with friends and decided to get home with the most annoying and deluded of my friends from high school instead of my other dude and his girl because the annoying friend was with some guys who were drunk enough to provide a story worth telling. I don't keep company with these people, but a small investment of my time can give me a story worth telling. Do this for every opportunity where you have the time and before you know it, you have a pretty solid list of casual stories to draw from. The key is to view people as a utility in those times of your life, not a priority or some psychological necessity.

    [–]rpdoomed 0 points1 point  (5 children)

    This closely resembles what I would say.

    If you were not employed (had no job or worked at McDonald's) and then they offered you the same well-paid job that you don't necessarily like, would you have done the same thing and walked away?

    This is a more complicated issue than what I was in, however I would say that allowing yourself to fall into this category is your own fault. As a man, it is your responsibility to do the absolute best for yourself that you can, and it is also your responsibility to dig yourself out of a tough spot since you allowed yourself to get in a pickle like that. You take the responsibility for your own actions.

    [–]chairmobile 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Absolutely. Neglecting education is a fool's course.

    [–]the_red_scimitar 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    True enough, and completely sidesteps the question.

    [–]rpdoomed 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Why would I give the answer that's completely obvious? It's a question that answers itself. Of course I'd take the fucking job, given the hypothetical situation. HOWEVER I would continue looking for a job that matched what I really wanted. Why the hell would I be content with what I considered to be a job that doesn't pay me what I am worth.

    It's a dumb question because anyone with half a brain will obviously do what it takes to survive or quickly remove their person from a bad situation. Being jobless or working at Mickey D's Fat Burgers counts as a bad situation. Why even ask the question?

    [–]the_red_scimitar -1 points0 points  (1 child)

    Yeah, see, we don't actually know you are "someone with a brain", now, do we? So the dumb part was... yours.

    And the return question: Why would you skip around a question? There are more answers to that. But meh, fine. Everything you wrote is kinda from a fucked up asshole attitude anyway, mmkay?

    [–]rpdoomed 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Cuz we're all about being nice guys in here! The only "Asshole" response was to yours. It's not being an asshole to point out that it's your own responsibility to take care of yourself.

    I am a coach on a high school sports team, and if I answered every stupid question to come my way, I'd be a very busy man. Merely asking a dumb question does not automatically qualify the waste of my time. That's akin to a girl thinking she deserves your respect because she has a vagina.

    [–]dntdxxmbr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    So you discovered outcome independent here as in the dating world works.

    [–]the_red_scimitar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    This is why the canon includes abundance, and the mentality to go with it.

    [–]Wile-E-Coyote 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    That's why you have at least plans A-D, if not further. Hell, I know if things go really south I've got a bag in my closet ready to go with everything I may need to go most places in the western hemisphere, and a complete backup of my computer on an external drive. When you see plan A, B, and sometimes even C fail enough times you learn to always be ready.

    [–]hb8only 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I read your nr2 as "Had a handjob offer.." and I was in shock at the end :)))

    [–]WeCantHaveFun 21 points22 points  (4 children)

    I looooooooove the friend zone. So many easy lays that way.

    There are some caveats: spend nothing, give nothing not even a like on fb or whatever, only spend time with them if you have absolutely nothing to do. They're great to take to the bars since they're always bad mouthing you, making the preppie kid look like a player.

    The hunter becomes the hunted.

    [–]OptimusPAUL 15 points16 points  (0 children)

    You are an asteroid. You are using the pull of a black hole to sling shot you to new frontiers.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)


      [–]WeCantHaveFun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      It's so funny how they get a guy to jump through hoops and then get bored of him.


      and yes I do notice every little disrespectful comment

      Always coming over the top works for me. Let no slight go unreplied. Whatever shortcoming however small she has, pick at it, always with a shit kicking grin.

      She'll never come into line, but she'll always fuck.

      [–]ConcealingFate 17 points18 points  (1 child)

      There is a cute co-worker who wanted me to keep an eye on her while we were out so she doesn't do stupid shit when she drinks like she did during Christmas party. I straight up told her I'm not her bodyguard or some shit like that and walked away.

      Since then, she tries to get my attention at work when she notices me and it's kinda funny.

      [–]Iramohs 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      A girl tried to do the same thing with me at a concert. I ended up making out with her 10 minutes later after grinding on some random girl.

      [–]NeopolitanAfterglow 76 points77 points  (40 children)

      My last LTR started off in the friend zone. She told me she's not ready for a relationship (1 year since her breakup) and we can only be friends. I was even such a pussy that I literally cried and said I'm not interested in that. It's bf / gf or I have to move on. She said "OK, let's try bf / gf " and bam, 4 1/2 years of regular sex.

      The friend zone is a self constructed prison. Never sentence yourself to that.

      [–]Ermgotthis 213 points214 points  (23 children)

      Cried out of the friendzone ? LOL.

      [–]Endorsed Contributorcocaine_face 81 points82 points  (10 children)

      It was obviously very manly crying.

      [–][deleted]  (3 children)


        [–]pantsoffire -1 points0 points  (2 children)

        "Can vampires cry?

        Once, maybe twice in their lifetime."

        Once, maybe twice in front of most women. Funerals- that's probably it. We all know what happens when you show humanity, I'm sorry. Weakness. They fall back on the ideal of a fucking macho as fuck guy samurai viking warlord who hasn't cried since prenatally. Becuase a real guy will either be their bitch ass guy friend or their inhuman superman. But maybe you can linger in the inbetween, as the guy they can't "figure out" because you ain't soft but you are not trying to fuck them. Good luck weirdo.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)


          [–]sidjo86 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          [–]NeopolitanAfterglow 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Robert DeNiro in Analyze This? (Too lazy to look for a video)

          [–]NeopolitanAfterglow 12 points13 points  (3 children)

          Well, I mean, yeah. Phone crying, but it was the real deal.

          [–]jotch 24 points25 points  (0 children)

          I'm not even mad, thats amazing. High five. Just dont get your tears on me.

          [–]ElKod 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          Damn man, she must have really liked you or thought it was a good enough display of emotions to believe you have some! High-five here. You are one in a million..

          [–]Endevour 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I can't believe what I'm reading.

          [–]loddfavne 8 points9 points  (0 children)

          Gotta hand it to him for originality.

          [–]idkbanana[S] 35 points36 points  (0 children)

          Well shit.. I know what I'm doing wrong (not crying)

          [–]Squeezymypenisy 20 points21 points  (10 children)

          Haha I honestly though I was being trolled on 4chan when I read this. How did you cry out of the friendzone? Do tears make her horny?

          [–]fuckeh 8 points9 points  (1 child)

          It shows her you care and value her, and it's a display of passion. A lot of women would be turned off by it but I can understand how it might work.

          [–]NeopolitanAfterglow 8 points9 points  (5 children)

          You're probably imagining me crying on her shoulder followed by pity sex. Actually, it was phone crying late at night resulting in a gf / bf agreement. Our first date was about a week later, which involved a rooftop makeout session and an F close immediately after.

          Strange that we technically entered the exclusively agreement before our actual first date.

          [–]Squeezymypenisy 13 points14 points  (0 children)

          I mean this is the internet, but it sounds like you just lived a disney movie moment. I never thought anything like that was possible.

          [–]Weedwin31 1 point2 points  (3 children)

          But still, it sounds really bluePill, basically you begged for a relationship, i think she has the power in that relation by the way

          [–]NeopolitanAfterglow 1 point2 points  (2 children)

          Of course it was BP. I was on an 18 month dry spell, so the crying was more about that than it was about her.

          But then after the first fuck, she immediately fell for me and the tables turned. She was almost instantly baby crazy, asking for marriage. (Thank god for the vasectomy.) I pretty much maintained a consistent 65-35 power advantage over her from that point on.

          [–]through_a_ways 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          She was almost instantly baby crazy, asking for marriage.

          That doesn't mean anything. If anything, the more quickly she asks for marriage, the less power you have.

          [–]Shadowrunner32 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Women don't expect perfection. You can screw stuff up and still succeed. Just less likely.

          [–]kragshot 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          True shit. If a woman is willing to have an intimate conversation with you, she is willing to fuck you under the right circumstances. If she will spend 30 minutes talking to you alone under casual surroundings, then she will most likely be willing to spend 15 minutes making out or fucking you...but you have to make her want to do so. If you want to either fuck her or date her, it is your job to make those circumstances manifest in your relationship with her.

          To paraphrase the late, great, Patrice O' is your job as a man to give that woman "other options" where she doesn't see any existing.

          [–]1TVTestPattern 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Thanks man... now I'm crying too.



          [–]1exit_sandman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Kudos that it worked, but wouldn't recommend.

          [–]watersign -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

          wow..i would never do that, id just whip out my dick

          [–]brotherjustincrowe 11 points12 points  (0 children)

          No, we can't be friends, because heterosexual men and heterosexual women can't "just be friends" if there's sexual tension. Period. A girl you want to fuck who wants to be "just friends" is an ungrateful mooch, no better than a freeloading roommate who doesn't pay their share of the rent (but helps themselves to your food/weed/beer and shit-talks you).

          You're not entitled to her pussy, and she's not entitled to your time or attention.

          [–]Roshambo_USMC 8 points9 points  (4 children)

          I always picture DeNiro in Heat talking about always being ready to walk away, and he does just that at the end of the movie. This is how you have to be: completely secure/outcome independent. Once you become this solid, and especially when your target sees the interested competition right in her face, the tide will most likely turn in your favor.

          Why this works so often with different "types" of women across the board is beyond me (as a logical male), but it seems to work everytime I employ it.

          [–]brotherjustincrowe 5 points6 points  (1 child)

          AWALT. As in, not logical. Feels > reals.

          [–]Movonnow -1 points0 points  (0 children)

          Girls are like Chuck Norris.

          It it looks like a chicken, if it smells like a chicken, if it tastes like a chicken BUT if feels says its a cow, then it's a fucking cow.

          [–]PlusGoody 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          Spoiler Alert for 20 year old movie. The entire point of the third act is that De Niro does NOT walk away, and gets taken down by the heat as a result.

          [–]Roshambo_USMC 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          He walks away from the girl, following his own advice from earlier in the film when he talked about being able to walk out on a woman, hence my analogy. He goes back for revenge, but he left that woman in the car and dipped out, even with her staring him down.

          [–]deville05 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          You mean to say.. Lets do all the relationship stuff without all the sexual goodness?!.. Where do I sign up?!

          [–]zerogravityii 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          This is exactly what I believe in. I refuse to get friend-zoned by someone I'm attracted to. That way I have nothing to lose.

          [–]seattleron 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          Showing you can, and will, walk away shows you're a real man. You have options. You don't put up with games or bullshit. This is what she wants. Maybe it won't work, but there's a 10 times better chance that works thab being an emotional tampon with a dick.

          [–]jedlucid 6 points7 points  (2 children)

          to quote Patrice O'Neal "sometimes you have to take an L". Its tough, you miss the companionship, but after a while you fill it with more of you reaffirming your own ideas and you'll soon be harder to talk to.

          [–]kragshot 5 points6 points  (1 child)

          True shit, man.

          I ended up nailing a girl who tried to FZ me six years before. After the walkaway, I saw her six years later when I was spinning a club set. While I didn't completely dismiss her, I didn't make any time for her while I was partying with the other folks in the VIP section...away and above her on the main floor.

          About a week later, she cornered me at the club and demanded that "we talk." I turned it back on her with the "Okay. Talk." She began stumbling over her words at that point because she expected me to just fall back into place, fawning all over her, and I didn't even come close to it. Finally, I said; "You wanted to talk...stop meandering and tell me what you want. My friends are kind of waiting on me for the midnight toast."

          She did the meek reply; "We're friends aren't we?"

          I replied; "I didn't need that from you then...I certainly don't want it now. I have plenty of 'female friends.' What I wanted from you was a more intimate connection. So...what's changed? I've got to go...folks are waiting."

          At the end of the night, I came out to my car to find her leaning against it, asking me to come back to her place so "we could talk about it, a little more." Yeah. I ended up "stringing her along" for about eight months before turning it into a 3 year LTR where she knew what the deal was...yeah, I still wanted her...badly. But just like then, I was willing to take an "L" just to get my point across and not be used as a tool by her. It worked out in the end.

          [–]jedlucid 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          this year i pulled out of 2 FZs with rigorous over the top meanness. it's refreshing to know I won't have to deal with either of them. I fucked one before it was over, the one i didn't wanna fuck, but that's not the point.

          [–]Ermgotthis 13 points14 points  (2 children)

          I'm hitting on this girl at work. Chatting playfully as we don't work in the same office. At some points, she kind of states that it seems I have a looooot of chicks going on, which I don't deny. I frame her, telling her that I appreciate talking to her because she doesn't fall in the usual BS I serve chicks, and that I like the fact that she resists me.

          At this points, she says that now that I know it wont work on her, she'd be glad to continue this conversation on a friendly manner.

          I told her that I didn't believe in M/F friendship, that I didn't care if it worked or not, and that I just enjoyed having those playful conversation with her. Basically, told her clearly that my conversations were NOT friendly.

          At which point she just agreed to keep on talking to me and "play" with me.

          Don't know where this is going, but stating clearly when it came up that I weren't going to talk to her in a "friendship manner" kind of made her accept it for what it was. I didn't tell her "We date or we don't see each other", I just told her "I'm gonna keep talking to you, and it's going to be seductive, just accept it". And she accepted it. Game's on.

          [–]thesaint2 8 points9 points  (1 child)

          Better to avoid Office girls, next you will neck deep shit in office politics which you have fucking idea about.

          [–]PedophilePriest 16 points17 points  (3 children)

          You can take it a step further as well. Whenever a girl suggests to me that were friends, or should be friends my answer is always "No. I cant be friends with any woman unless I have already slept with her."

          [–]other_worlds 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          That's my rule and thats my response when a girl asks me to buy her a drink.

          [–]Just_for_boobs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Variation: "I can only be friends with a woman that i have already slept with. We can be friends. smirk"

          [–]raceAround126 11 points12 points  (5 children)

          I've side this a few times to girls.

          Only once did it ever go badly. It was a girl I was kinda interested in and maybe beta'd up a little. It wasn't what I said it was my general demeanour. I smiled too much and wasn't gruff enough.

          Anyway, she smelled the beta. And then she said, "I think we should be friends!"

          I just said, "No thanks" and walked away.

          Yeah... seeing a woman go absolutely ape shit at you in the middle of a pub... well... embarrassing.

          I was still transforming from beta to alpha, so I took it like a prick I'm sad to say!

          [–]LosingMoneyAllDay 5 points6 points  (4 children)

          Really? If she so much as huffed at that response, your best bet is to just laugh at her and look amused at her acting like a child.

          [–]robot-b 0 points1 point  (3 children)

          I like Tom Leykis' approach: 'Now, now sweetheart, I think its time to calm down, dear'

          [–]CoyoteCS 0 points1 point  (2 children)

          I miss his show when it was on the radio out here in California. He speaks the truth.

          [–]robot-b 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          heaps of his stuff on youtube and you can stream from his site or subscribe if you need a fix

          [–]CoyoteCS 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          It's moments like this that I realize I'm not a smart man. I don't know why I never thought of looking him up.

          Thank you for the suggestions.

          [–]1exit_sandman 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          Solid advice, with one exception:

          If you’re in the friend-zone already, the best way to escape it, is to let her see you dating, or attracting, other attractive women.

          One shouldn't do that to remind her that one is desirable, but to remind oneself that one is desirable and that there are ectually better women out there.

          One shouldn't do anything with the sole intent to make her change her mind.

          [–]JackGoldsteinWrites 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          Solid advice. I've used 'I have enough friends' a few times.

          [–]smokingmonkey420 4 points5 points  (7 children)

          You could always mindfuck her. Say "sure we can be friends." Then ignore her entirely.

          [–][deleted]  (6 children)


            [–]Overkillengine 6 points7 points  (1 child)

            At first, definitely. Until the realization sets in after enough time of getting nothing of what she expected out of you.

            Which can be fun if she then brings that up, since you can then reply (if at all) "Yeah I'm not getting anything out of this either." Then more silence.

            Poignant silence.

            [–]smokingmonkey420 1 point2 points  (3 children)

            Exactly. Tackling this problem head on plays into her frame.

            I love "playing the beta." It's what she expects. It makes her comfortable.

            Women hate confrontation, so when you stand your ground in this situation, you are rolling the dice and showing your hand. Putting her in the drivers seat.

            Law 32: Play to people's fantasies.

            [–]dogberry23 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Women hate confrontation, so when you stand your ground in this situation, you are rolling the dice and showing your hand. Putting her in the drivers seat.

            Sorry, I do not get it. Why, in this case, standing your ground is not the right thing to do? Isn't it all about "holding frame", in the end?

            [–]smokingmonkey420 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Personally, if it gets to that point where she suggests "just being friends," then I feel like you fucked up. She wouldn't ever consider saying something like that with a man she was deeply attracted too.

            If you refuse her offer, you're basically telling her that you want to be exclusive, which isn't any better of an approach. It's far better cry than the beta orbiter who will agree to her terms on a superficial level, but really just wants to get in her pants, but still not a good approach.

            So if she brings this up, you either soft next or hard next her. Either tell her "ok" and proceed with radio silence, or tell her to hit the bricks. In either case, she gets no relationship from you unless it's on your terms. End result is she chases you or moves on.

            [–]theoctopuss 12 points13 points  (0 children)

            This happened to me just last weekend.

            I was hanging out with a girl I had known for a few months. We were watching fights at a buffalo wild wings with her friend and her friend's husband. We leave early to hit up a local sports bar, so we hop in my car and go. On the way, we pick up a different friend of hers (who's also a girl).

            We get to the bar and I see a guy I know outside and talk to him for a second. Both girls are smoking, so I just went inside because it's cold. They follow me in, but I go right to the bar and get a drink. I go talk to my buddy I saw, then about 15 minutes later I go find girl.

            We go to the dance floor and dance a little, then head outside for a cigarette. I w as getting bored of the shitty music, so I told her I'm going to leave. We go inside to get the coats and drinks, which is where I give her the ultimatum, stay or come with. she decides to stay, so I just said "ok, see ya" as if nothing we wrong and left her there.

            She apologizes the next day, but I ignore her message. She texts me a few times after, and I finally respond after 2 or 3 days of no contact. We hang out with her friend, but then she says she has to go. Girl wants to go with, but I get her to stay.

            She put up LMR "I'm on my period!", but you can guess what happened. I fucked her, then she sucked me off until I finished and she swallowed.

            Fuck the friend zone. It's all about frame.

            [–][deleted]  (2 children)


              [–]brotherjustincrowe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              I've got a couple of good-natured fatty orbiters. Balk at the thought of sticking it in them, but they're good for a chat (one's a waitress at the local diner and the other works at a bookstore in town I frequent).

              [–]1TVTestPattern 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Excellent post.

              Take this advice guys... not just with women, with all relationships. Work, friends, sports... everything.

              Stand up for your dignity. If you won't, why should I?

              [–]systemshock869 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Beta male orbiters are the butt of the men’s communities jokes. These guys drive their crush everywhere..

              Oh my God I met this guy. I went to a concert with a group, most of whom I didn't know. One particularly attractive girl arrived with her beta orbiter /chauffeur. She introduced me to him like he was the sweetest guy in the world, then she sat by me and didn't really talk to him the rest of the night. I am fairly empathetic and could tell by his eyes exactly what he was going through. Sit there and be the good little friend. She flirted with me pre concert and proceeded to dance with me at the concert. At the end of the night we all chilled some more and then when she was ready to leave she called him up to take her home. Poor schmuck. Been there, done that.

              [–]kragshot 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              Back when I was single, I was DJing a set. A real cute Korean girl came up to me and started a convo. I asked her to come back to the green room with me and she replied; "I don't know...I just wanted to talk to you and be friends...."

              I looked her in the eye and said: "Talk to that guy over there (pointing at some lonely-looking guy at the bar). I'm sure that he'll be your friend and there for you. I just finished a shit-hot set, I'm hard as hell, and I'm looking to fuck. If you're not down for that, then we can just call this done and I can look for a girl who is. Nothing personal. You be good."

              I then walked away...I don't know what prompted me to do that shit, but I was so high on that set I just pulled off, I didn't care. Didn't even look back at her to see how she reacted. Not even five minutes later, she walked back up to me, doing the looking down, hair-twisting and biting her lower lip thing and asked me if I was still "hard as hell?" I was...but not for too much longer.

              Just my testimony; that shit works. And even if it doesn't work...what do you have to lose? The attention of some girl who doesn't want to date/fuck you? You have better things to do with your time. Fuck the "friend zone." Dating and macking are investments in time like anything else you do...make them adhere to your schedule, not the other way around. If you're trying to hook up at a function, you best believe that they are there for the same reason. But be prepared to defeat the eventual shit test that you'll be put to...because it is going to happen.

              The "friend zone" is the most common one that you as a man will ever encounter. The dichotomy associated with the friend zone test is that supposedly, if you say that you don't want to be "friends," then how are you supposed to be interested in her as a person?

              The way out of that is simple when you think about it. You are not interested in "her" as a person; you are interested in her as a woman.

              "I have enough friends in my life. I need a woman in my you want to be that woman? If not, then move on so I can find the one who does want to be that woman." That puts her on the spot by challenging her womanhood...because every woman wants to "tame" some man and be "the woman" and you are challenging her by saying that "she can't be the woman."

              Study that shit and see if I'm wrong.

              [–]HellhoundsOnMyTrail 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              Had this with a girl on OKC that was messaging with me this last week. Said she was only there for friends though her profile included 'short term dating.' I took to mean she simply wasn't attracted and let her know it would be disingenuous of me to hang out with her under false pretenses. Sucked but at the end of the day, I'd rather have that than waste my time thinking I had a chance.

              [–]Endorsed Contributorcocaine_face 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              No, in this context that's probably not what it meant.

              "I'm just looking for friends" on dating site = "I don't want to date clingy guys, and I want to hang out and probably fuck before we even think about being anything more than just hang out partners."

              There are exceptions and it would depend on how it was worded and what it was in response to, but a, "I'm looking for friends" doesn't equal rejection on a dating site, unless you went very explicitly sexual, and then it probably just means, "Slow down!"

              Read the essay on powertalk in the sidebar for more examples.

              [–]the_red_scimitar 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              When that happens pretty early on (like first or 2nd time meeting - I won't say "dating") - I tell them nope, and that that was clearly not the intent in meeting. I'm not at all shy about letting them know.

              [–]Observerwwtdd 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              As I said once...I've got enough friends....I need someone willing to go that "extra mile" for me.

              [–]watersign 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              man and woman cannot be friends. period.

              btw..if you want to get out of the friend zone..just whip out your dick

              [–]gt35r 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              I finally dropped the bomb on the girl I made the post about a few days ago on here. The way she went about texting me was unlike any I've seen before, her train of thought was weird and almost crazy. I had to drop the nuke and tell her I have no interest in being friends, and am only sexually attracted to her.

              "So I'm just an object"

              I mean for christs sake she asked me out of nowhere if I watched porn, which I jokingly responded with "every waking minute of my life". She wrote literally a 3 message story about how it's going to ruin my life and cause other bad habits to form, and she's telling me because she cares about me. I have the screen shots, it's fucking weird man.

              [–]AlfaGTV6 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              I would like to see this. Make a post?

              [–]Gypsyfy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Wow fantastic post. I feel like a lot of trp posts have this quality of painting women as hypergamous satanic sluts and men as guardian angels of virtue but this post has the good trp truth without the passive aggressiveness of most.

              [–]unknowinglyRP 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              Does this mean you can’t be friends with women? Not at all.

              I'm only referencing and mentioning this due to the influx lately of people in this sub talking about being friends with women.

              Why on earth would you want to be friends with a woman? It just baffles my mind.

              [–]hollowcrown51 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Same reason you'd want to be friends with a man. You enjoy mutually enjoy each others company and what each other has to say and share common interests and activities.

              [–]Masonjarteadrinker2 0 points1 point  (2 children)

              I can’t stand sexual tension, and if sexual tension remains unresolved, it can turn to frustration, and lead to a negative experience.

              This is very true, actually happening right now but it's the co worker and we already fucked drunk, I want to keep doing it but also don't because of the drama that could ensue.

              [–]symko 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              Cool bro, just remember, don't shit where you eat. I have a strict "don't date coworkers" policy because human resources does not give a shit about you. They are there to protect the company and if they extend an olive branch, it'll be going to her.

              [–]Masonjarteadrinker2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Yea I feel you, I would get at it if I could again but she's got a kid and a BF on top of that we work together and I have a GF. All the subtle flirting gets to me though cause I just want to tear her up, I'll leave it alone though, not in the mood to get int o funny business here.

              [–]12ToneRow 0 points1 point  (5 children)

              I've been thinking that female "friends" could be a great way to expand your pool of potential partners. The more women you know, the more sex you'll have. Just because she doesn't want to fuck you doesn't mean that her friends won't want to. I've been experimenting with this idea. So far so good.

              The funny part is that the woman who just wants to be friends, at least in my own case, will be confused when you treat her like a (male) friend.

              [–]mormon-nigger 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              this same kind of thread comes up every few weeks or so. I have found it's important to maintain female friends, maybe even 1 or 2 that i once had a romantic interest in. obviously if they are high value females they can be used to build social circle, walk into nightclubs that you would otherwise never get into, end up at random house (mansion) parties in the hollywood hills, etc. It varies depending on the female and the strength of your game / friendship. Obviously if she is not a high value female and is not romantically interested in you, has no social circle, etc, her friendship alone won't gain you much of anything

              [–]Just_for_boobs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              In theory, it's a good idea to be friends with high value female for the social proof and access to other females. Sometimes i ask a girl, if she has more female or male friends to gauge her attention whore status. Guess what, most girls have more male friends. Again, in theory, you should look for a large group of girls(rare) and befriend the heart of the group.

              [–]Endorsed Contributorcocaine_face 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              I find it hard to maintain women in my social circle that don't want to fuck me.

              [–]fhghg 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              This is tricky. To a quality woman you might look like a beta bitch. I have some arrangements with women like you describe and it's really just constant shit test material. And think of the logic. Either you want to fuck them and can't, don't want to fuck them indicating low libido, or look like a liar one way or the other. It basically makes you look desperate, non-selective, lazy, and dishonest. The only way it's a good deal is if your sex girls think the arrangement girls want to fuck you. You can't pull this off very easily with words. It takes action. Best I've found is just put the sex girls first. Always. 9/10 times the sex girl will hamster this to mean she got lucky and those other dumb bitches can't get with you like she can. This much should be obvious.

              [–]Overzealous_BlackGuy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              What happens when you've (intentionally) been friends for a while, and you end up having sex with your female friend?

              Is this curiosity, good timing of events and emotions, or a sudden realization?

              [–]videogamema5ter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Good post. I needed something like this two days ago. I'll have to keep this in mind for the future.

              Seriously, she just said "Hey, let's just be friends." and I responded with "Uh, okay."

              I have a lot to learn.

              [–]1Padre55 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              This one is, well, nuanced.

              Example, pre selection, if you are talking to Ms Thing and other women see it..value raised.

              Emotional Tampon status=value and time wasted Walking Wallet=time wasted, money wasted, approach to women issues

              I'd say always be flirty and uninvested, know them but not too well, no long chats about nothing.

              This is one area I diverge from TRP orthodoxy as usually my female friends are interested sexually in the first place. Literally have not had one who did not allude to making the beast with two backs for "fun!" Or commenting on appearance or introducing me to single friends etc.

              Things vary

              [–]PlusGoody 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              There is way too much drama being proposed here. Drama = butthurt = justifying a woman's assessment that you're not worthy.

              Your strategies should dramatically reduce even the opportunity for a "LJBF" ploy, because, to be blunt, you shouldn't be friendly to a woman you want but don't yet have. You should be mostly ignoring her and then, when the time is right, pouncing on her. You'll know you're doing it right when the rejection you get aren't "I don't like you like that, LJBG" but "get away from me you asshole." (If your SMV isn't especially high, she'll display actual signs of revulsion -- but who cares.)

              If you fuck up and manage to be in a position to get the LJBF -- then walk away with a smile and WITHOUT A WORD. It's not likely she'll come crawling back (because LJBF is in a woman's mind one of the strongest possible ways she can reject a man to whom she is completely unattracted), but you are still maximizing that slim chance.

              [–]pantsoffire 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Anyone else feel this is an almost one dimensional view of redpill, or rational male or return of kings or what ever we choose to call it? For months now this sub has been becoming a wonderland fantasy fuck of; my life is so fucking good because got mad business sense now brah/ am commited to identifying my self/ masculinity by pussy I'm fucking. Almost like the subversive srs folks got our basic shit figured out.


              [–]Movonnow -1 points0 points  (3 children)

              Does this mean you can’t be friends with women? Not at all.

              You lost me here.

              Being friend with a woman. What a bunch of nonsence.

              [–]fhghg 0 points1 point  (2 children)

              Arrangement then. I have arrangements with women that don't involve sex.

              [–]Movonnow 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              As long as you do not give away your ressources for free in hope of getting something of them later, I'm fine with it.

              [–]fhghg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              I don't care what you're fine with, bro.

              [–]EurasianAesthetics -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

              God i'm sick of reading about the friend zone. You're getting put into it because you're a weak beta, stop whining and man up. Get jacked, ripped and make her your biatch.