all 164 comments

[–]abcd_z 53 points54 points  (19 children)

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I figure she might've been shy, the first thing she said is that she was hungry and asked me if I didn't mind going to a restaurant.

"Sure, but we'll each be paying for ourselves. Is that okay with you?"
"No!"
"Okay. Goodbye, then." -leaves-

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (1 child)

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"I only buy dinners for people I'm sleeping with. Is that okay with you?"

Option 1: "No!" "Okay. Goodbye, then." -leaves-

Option 2: "Maybe...." "Okay! Let's go to my place, order a pizza, pour a glass of wine and watch this movie I was going to watch tonight. We can talk about what you should wear at that restaurant next week."

[–]tsotha 12 points13 points  (15 children)

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I wouldn't be that blunt, but yeah, he could have headed the whole thing off by making it clear she was paying her own way.

On the other hand... it's not a bad thing when a girl like this gets burned. Maybe he'll save some other guys from a crappy date.

[–]1veggie_girl 27 points28 points  (0 children)

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I doubt she will learn a damn thing. Instead she will just complain "where have all the good men gone." Women need to be told something in order to learn, they do not learn on their own (see innovation as a male-specific trait). Kinda wish OP would call her on her shit, but then again he owes her no favors.

[–]abcd_z 2 points3 points  (13 children)

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Why not be that blunt? If she's offended by the thought of paying for her own meal on a first date, she's not the sort of woman I would want to waste effort on anyways.

[–]tsotha 1 point2 points  (12 children)

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I wouldn't be blunt because blunt offends some people irrespective of the message. If you come across like you think she's taking advantage of you she'll be offended if that's not the case. I'd give her a chance to volunteer to pay half, and then ratchet up from there.

[–]abcd_z 3 points4 points  (11 children)

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And if she never volunteered?

[–]tsotha 0 points1 point  (10 children)

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As I said, I'd ratchet it up from there. I may end up being blunt; I just wouldn't start there.

[–]abcd_z 1 point2 points  (9 children)

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At what point in the interaction would you bring it up if she didn't? Before you headed to the restaurant? Once you're at the restaurant? While ordering? Once the food has been prepared?

Also, what does "ratcheting it up" look like to you? Can you give a hypothetical dialogue example?

[–]tsotha 4 points5 points  (1 child)

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Definitely you bring it up when you arrive at the restaurant (but before you enter) at the latest. Once you sit down it's too easy for her to say she doesn't have any money and just assumed you were paying.

First off I would have planned it so there wasn't enough time to go to a fancy restaurant before the movie. There's plenty of time for that after the movie if you decide you're hitting it off. Nothing worse than spending a whole meal with a stranger with whom you're not clicking.

But assuming there's time, when she asks if it's okay to go to a restaurant I'd probably say something like "I really wasn't planning to go to a restaurant." That way I'm leaving some ambiguity - Maybe it's money. Maybe I already ate. Maybe I just didn't want to spend that much time talking to her yet.

That gives her a chance to say "Oh, don't worry, we'll go Dutch." At which point I decide what I really want to do. If she doesn't volunteer something like that I'll say "Why don't we just pick up a snack at the coffee place instead?" The point is I'm going to keep steering her away from the fancy restaurant unless she volunteers to pay for her own meal. She'll get the idea. If she keeps pushing you know she sees you as, literally, a meal ticket. Probably time to end the date right there.

At some point I expect there will be women who say something like "I can't believe you won't buy me dinner." Then it's time to be blunt.

[–]abcd_z 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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Huh. I can see that working.

I suppose it's just a matter of personal style.

[–]nophoney 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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At what point in the interaction would you bring it up if she didn't?

probably 5 minutes before she started crying and making a scene as the white knights are watching closely.

[–]1mrust -1 points0 points  (5 children)

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Assuming the story is as presented, there were many warning signs. She picked an expensive restaurant contrary to the plan. If she wasn't looking for a free meal, she would have eaten before the movie.

To answer your question, I have been in this situation with no warning signs, and I ratcheted up when the bill arrived. Best is to handle it implicitly. Don't reach for your wallet until she does. A classy girl will ask if you want to split the bill at this point. When the waiter comes around you waive them off and tell them you're not ready. The girl will likely excuse herself at this point and go to the bathroom (or do a runner if you're unlucky) so that you can "handle it"

If she still doesn't get the hint, my next play would have been "the bill isn't going to pay itself"

The most important thing is to keep the conversation light and definitely do not become confrontational. In this case it was just a matter of cultural expectations. If I had demanded she pay her half, I never would have gotten the lay.

[–]tsotha 3 points4 points  (1 child)

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I don't think that's really viable. If I'm understanding the timeline correctly, once that sat down for dinner she started poormouthing so when the check came she could say she didn't have any money.

When the check comes you can bet your last dollar she's gonna say she doesn't have any money and had assumed you would pay.

[–]1mrust 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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Yeah, the first paragraph was for the given situation. I was saying it was already clear before they sat down that she was looking for a handout.

The rest of it was just personal experience in the case of no warning signs. Wasn't clear if /u/abcd_z was asking for how to escalate for the bill in this particular situation or in general.

[–]avinasser 5 points6 points  (1 child)

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Man, you are dreaming. You wait that long, a bitch is still just as likely to leave you with the bill. The guy in the story was smart to leave before he had to deal with some bitch saying that she has no money to pay. Actually, she had already said that. And what the fuck, you go on talking about conversation.

[–]Delixcroix 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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OPs Story girl looked like a real class act haha.

[–]TerryYockey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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Exactly what I'd've done.

[–]wtfiku 161 points162 points  (29 children)

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The true story is the girl is broke but wants to eat out. So she searched Craiglist and looked for a poor bastard to pay for her dinner bill. She probably already yelped where the fuck she wanted to eat already. Did you really think the bitch just randomly picked a restaurant out of nowhere?

[–]sway_usa 25 points26 points  (0 children)

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Exactly. You know how hard it is for a girl to choose a restaurant in a part of town she's lived for years?

This girl was using you bro. WELL DONE!

[–]Sturmgeist781 90 points91 points  (21 children)

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This is why men lead and pick where to go. He could have nipped this in the bud by choosing where to go and refusing to bring her to a restaurant regardless how hungry she is.

Her hunger is not his problem.

[–]rubronegro 63 points64 points  (19 children)

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Point of it all; he lost a jacket. She was not worth losing that jacket.

[–]Camplify 49 points50 points  (10 children)

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meh, 23 dollar jacket vs 20 dollar movie that they were going to see later if they didn't go to the restaurant. I say fuck the jacket.

[–]Sturmgeist781 36 points37 points  (8 children)

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He got out of that "date" relatively cheap in the grand scheme of things.

[–]monsieurhire2 40 points41 points  (7 children)

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Yeah, but he did it in a weak, passive-aggressive way, the same way he let her lead him into a fancy restaurant. Notice how he said he was a "nice" guy? If her were really "nice," he would just say, "No, I'm not ready to take you out to a meal, you're moving to fast for me. What kind of guy do you think I am anyway? I don't buy dinner on the first date. Let's just get a coffee." The older I get, the more I hate this weak-minded, cowardly bullshit. The proof is that he left his jacket at the restaurant. At least he could have walked out with it. He never should have let her lead him into the restaurant in the first place. At no point did he say, "Get whatever you like, but I'm not paying for it." The girl assumed he would observe the "traditional" custom of paying like a true "man." He let her assume it because he was a passive aggressive little bitch instead of a man.

[–]sternje 9 points10 points  (1 child)

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weak-minded, cowardly bullshit.

he was a passive aggressive little bitch instead of a man.

I agree he should have said no to the meal, but I know I've been there and I can't be the only one on TRP that has been in that place in life. That's why we're on TRP. But it doesn't help to berate the poor fellow, because that's like berating a younger more inexperienced version of ourselves. Should he have handled it differently? Ideally, yes. But this is a common trap a lot of young men fall into. Call the OPs post a cautionary tale; the poor guy was naive and got duped. His fault? Partially. Hopefully he learned his lesson, but let's not chide him this harshly.

[–]monsieurhire2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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No, I've been there too, when I was in college, I took this girl out, and she kept ordering expensive beer after expensive beer. She blew through my entire budget like it was nothing. Probably had been on many dates with rich betas who didn't bat an eye on dropping $100 bucks on a meal and drinks. It was a group date, so when I realized I didn't have enough money for the next leg of the date, I ditched her and left her with the group. I never should have asked her to go in the first place. Also, I should have put my foot down, but I was 20, weak-minded, and also subjected to the "man pays for everything" peer pressure of being with a group of guys who were paying for everything. I just wanted to point out that the guy's behavior is not exactly model TRP behavior.

[–]SuchaN3rd -5 points-4 points  (4 children)

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So dinner is a bad first date? Have fun being single.

[–]monsieurhire2 4 points5 points  (3 children)

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It's almost like you don't even read the posts on here at all. I see you have no link or comment karma so I suspect that's the case.

Here, let me help you.

Basically, "dinner" dates as first dates are scams that women run to get free meals. That's a pretty strong factional consensus on here.

If you want to take a girl out to dinner, make sure that she's your girlfriend first, although some guys will still go dutch.

Honorable women will often refuse to let you pay for them.

For a first date, go for coffee. If they don't like that idea, they're not into you, they just want to engage in a form of legalized fraud or robbery, where they lead you on for a free meal.

Also, there is nothing wrong with being single. I was just in an LTR for a year, and I have more time and energy to do the stuff that I want to do now that she's out of my life. Do I miss the amazing sex? Sure. But not enough to give up my freedom and compromise my happiness.

[–]SuchaN3rd -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

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I see what you're saying and while that may be the case for you and others, I have had many good experiences with dinner as a first date. So, while you say my karma is low, that's due to the fact that I'm new to Reddit, not that I don't have experience in the real world with this.

[–]monsieurhire2 5 points6 points  (1 child)

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Do you pay for these dinners, or do you just go dutch. I'm saying don't pay for a woman's dinner. Dinner as a first date is one thing, but this guy was almost roped into paying for a woman's dinner. If the woman is trying to get you to pay for the dinner, that's a sign that she doesn't actually like you for you, it's a sign that she wants a free meal with free attention to validate herself. If she really liked you, she wouldn't care one way or another. My last LTR really liked me a lot. She never gave two shits that I insisted that we split everything. Her ex-hubby on the other hand, why, he had to lavish her with thousands of dollars of gifts; she basically married him for a nice lifestyle. I, on the other hand, got to hear stuff like, "I've never had this much fun without spending money!"

I know this Chinese guy; nothing wrong with him, decent looking, nice car, good job, but obvious failure with women. He mentions in passing about how he keeps taking women out to dinner and it goes nowhere. A banker told me a similar story. Both of these guys are nice guys, and that's the problem: they get taken advantage of.

Also, you have to ask yourself why you are having these "good experiences." Might it be because you are wealthy and handsome, or maybe just wealthy, and the women are impressed by your display? Or maybe you're just an overall catch, and it seems like the dinner is doing the job, when in fact, you could take them to a back alley and the result would be the same.

[–]cyber_rigger 26 points27 points  (5 children)

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$180/2 = $90

$90 > $23

$67 gained

He out-conned her.

Maybe she won't try this again.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

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[deleted]

    [–]cyber_rigger 6 points7 points  (1 child)

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    New rules for men:

    1. Let her do all of the ordering.

    2. Wear a cheap jacket.

    [–]Jessie_James 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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    Brilliant. I was wondering what I was going to do for dinner tonight.

    [–]1kulrajiskulraj 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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    That's if you assume she ordered equally as him. Which is doubtful.

    [–]1bradyo2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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    Dude made a profit!!!

    Edit: /s

    [–]ENTP 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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    You can always go by the restaurant and pick it up later.

    [–]1ThumpNuts 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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    $23 vs $180. He made a good judgment call for "who he is." He is a non-confrontational Beta kinda guy and this was probably his best move.

    An Alpha would have taken charge from the beginning and seduced this chick.

    [–]19 Endorsed Contributordrrrrrr 30 points31 points  (2 children)

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    Yeah - girls do this methodically, as their main hustle. Run through 6-7 dinners a week, and for 90% of the cases, she just takes the free dinner and never calls back. And if the guy looks rich enough to her, she starts trying to see if he'll be a beta bucks for her.

    It's crazy, because maybe every year they will hustle a total of 20, 30k in value through gifts, dinners, whatever else. Yet if they put that time towards learning how to program, in about 6 months they would be shepherded by white knights into the tech industry, and easily start making 70k a year after 1-2 years experience. When a woman with a manipulative, hustler instinct gets into the tech industry, she tends to get so much easy money and promotions, it is disgusting. But she knows how to play betas, so whatever, it's the game.

    But because she is too lazy to say no to the free dinner, she will always be a value-leeching slug, and therefore never actually have real money of her own.

    [–]bonekeeper 13 points14 points  (0 children)

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    "will code non-compliant HTML and CSS for food"

    [–]Chippendork 1 point2 points  (2 children)

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    poor bastard to pay for her dinner bill

    I have unwittingly avoided this because I refuse to eat restaurant food. If a girl takes me, I won't even order. If I like her, I'll pay regardless, which might be pathetic, and might be establishing dominance; I'm not sure.

    Ideas?

    [–]heist_of_saint_graft 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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    I also hate restaurants. Won't go to an expensive one. Why even pay for girls when you go, though? A stronger Frame would be, "I don't go to restaurants. Go with your girlfriends if you want to go."

    [–]MildlyFunnyUsername 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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    I only pay once we've already got something going on, which kinda rasies the point of not going to a restaurant as an early-on date idea

    [–]iamnotfromtexas90 19 points20 points  (1 child)

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    I've heard it's a classic move for hot girls to 'charge it up' when stuck on a date with someone they aren't interested. ("Make him pay for your time, right beeotches?? OMGLOL!) I can't believe she tried to pull that shit in real life.

    [–]Texas_Rangers 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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    lol the parenthesis oh shit

    [–]garlicextract 80 points81 points  (70 children)

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    Good on this guy. Thought I was walking into a beta nightmare story, pleasantly surprised.

    [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

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    I know, right? I was like "I know where this is going..."

    [–]TheLameloid 18 points19 points  (1 child)

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    Although I lost a Jacket, I still don't lose hope that there are nice girls out there for me.

    Too bad he didn't learn a thing.

    [–]19 Endorsed Contributordrrrrrr 11 points12 points  (0 children)

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    I know right. With that attitude, you'll have a doppleganger of this girl next weekend! Better start buying a bunch of cheap 5$ jackets or something.

    [–]mykungfuisbetter 35 points36 points  (66 children)

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    I might be the contrarian here, but this guy is a retard. The Red Pill thing to do would be to hold frame, and not to agree to go to the restaurant in the first place even though the girl suggested it. Maybe if he had second thoughts, leaving BEFORE he ordered anything would be fine too. But walking in there, and he orders something too, and then leaving? This is just a passive-aggressive move and I don't think it should be applauded. Besides, he didn't even escalate. Maybe she would have blown him in the alleyway, but all he got was "negative vibes"....eh pass. I knew he was a loser as soon as he said he was taking a chick to a movie on a first date. Instant retard alert. Don't be this guy.

    [–]1veggie_girl 63 points64 points  (3 children)

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    This isn't a solid example of what to do. Just a nice story of someone finding the RP in them, slowly but surely.

    [–]mykungfuisbetter 14 points15 points  (0 children)

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    yup I'll agree with that

    [–]vox_veritas 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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    Just a nice story of someone finding the RP in them, slowly but surely.

    By running away when things didn't go the way he wanted, and letting a girl he'd just met make the rules?

    The guy didn't even have the balls to make it clear that he was terminating the night. So, instead, he leaves his jacket because he's afraid of what might happen if the girl figures out what's going on. Then he tries to justify it by saying "lol but it was only $23 on sale at the Gap."

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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    Try to put yourself in the shoes of someone hoping for a nice evening, and not picking up on the signs of a not-so-genuine girl. He has no intention to make a scene, especially that the outcome could be that SHE stands up and leave him there. He just want out of an unhealthy situation. He is not a jackass with a right repartee, just a guy hoping for a date.

    He is no alfa and knows it. played it safe and nice, and the jacket is a small price. good for him.

    [–]Jesterian 21 points22 points  (5 children)

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    Sounds like she was just there for the free meal. I think I'd probably enjoy doing what this guy did more than some bj in an alley. It's momentary satisfaction vs deep satisfaction.

    [–]HahahahaWaitWhat 6 points7 points  (2 children)

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    Deeper satisfaction would be correlated with minimizing time spent dealing with worthless idiots, not stooping to their level and one upping them over petty shit like this.

    Don't waste your time.

    [–]Jesterian 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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    Takes less time than talking it out with her.

    [–]HahahahaWaitWhat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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    I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm recommending the consensus advice in this thread -- refuse to let her lead the date and choose the restaurant.

    [–]mykungfuisbetter 11 points12 points  (0 children)

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    Yeah I hear you, we all get off on the "yeah she tried to screw me so I screwed her even better" type satisfaction stories, but I would say that is an emotional response. As an example of what to do and how to lead our lives as Red Pill, this is not such a great example.

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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    . It's momentary satisfaction vs deep satisfaction.

    This. Learn to savor the steak instead of wolfing it down.

    [–]garlicextract 5 points6 points  (4 children)

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    I agree with you in some parts, she definitely dried up once she was the one deciding where to go. I think it's pretty clear from his description that she wouldn't have blown him, or even given him a kiss though. I was just happy I didn't read an ending where he blew 200 bucks, dropped her off and never saw her again - she deserves it, even though he did it in the most passive aggressive, beta way possible.

    Serious question - what are some "foolproof" ideas for a first date? I don't take girls to movies on the first date (that's high school stuff) but I'm not really sure what to do. Outdoorsy chicks may want to go to a nice park, but it can't be too much of a "hike" type of thing, they don't want to be in the wilderness with a guy they barely know.

    Concert? Basketball game (I love basketball)? Any suggestions are welcome.

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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    [deleted]

      [–]mykungfuisbetter 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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      Nothing wrong with mini golf...thats fun. Maybe you can help her with her swing haha.

      [–]blazingcopper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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      That's the best part. They grind on you or press their ass to your crotch if they're horny. You have to have done Kino beforehand escalating to this.

      [–]mykungfuisbetter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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      Tried and true formula: 1) Cafe / coffee shop (something low investment) first for "coffee and dessert" at most, plan your meet after dinner time. 2) Followed by a quick venue change to a nearby bar for drinks. Drinks are key in my experience for successful dates :-) If you aren't 21, I will agree in advance that dating will be harder. But you can still venue change somewhere else or for a walk etc. 3) Step 3 is obviously your place or her place. Good luck!

      [–]1bradyo2 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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      I knew he was a loser as soon as he said he was taking a chick to a movie on a first date.

      I knew he was a loser as soon as he said that he put an ad on craigslist looking for a date.

      [–][deleted] -5 points-4 points  (48 children)

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      Agreed. He shouldn't have let it escalate to a level he was uncomfortable with in the first place. If I was out with a guy who I expected wanted me to pick up the bill and I was uncomfortable, I'd let him know before we ordered. Something like "Dude, you know we're splitting this right?" On a date? I'd probably say as soon as the fancy restaurant came into play I'd joke it off like "Heh. No. We're not even sleeping together yet. Let's grab nachos at the bar. I know you're out of work so I'm buying." Setting up the wrong impression and then ditching (and fucking trying to cover your tracks by leaving you're coat) is absolutely spinelessly anti-confrontational and a royal dick move to boot. If some guy did it to me I'd be ready to kick his ass.

      My take on events?

      1) Guy trolls for date on craigslist. Looks desperate. Girl sees a free meal and a longshot chance to meet a guy who might not be as desperate as she's pretty sure he is. Nothing going on anyway, so might as well. Keep it in public so nothing gets too rapey.

      2) Guy shows up and she pegs him as desperate as she expected. She shit tests by him by suggesting a fancy restaurant to see if he thinks cash is going to buy his way into her pants. He fails to lead in any way and confirms her suspicions. She leads THE WHOLE FUCKING WAY even to the table and he's following like a puppy. He's totally lost at this point, so now she's more interested in a decent meal and a cocktail than getting boned.

      3) Guy, rather than just owning up that he's lost control of the situation, eating dinner, paying and calling it an early night, gets mad and vindictive. He fucking ORDERS FOOD for the purpose of sticking her with a bill. This is the intended definition of creepy BTW: Guy who instead of responding to shit tests and flirts backs down, gets mad, and still doesn't grow a backbone. That's the type who will fucking stab you in the back or spike your drink out of spite and have a rape fest because he's not even confident enough to ask for what he wants.

      4) Now he sets up a scenario to fuck her over, and not in a good way. And goes through with it! Walks out on a bill (likely a crime, but she probably covered for his ass instead of telling the truth and saying she just met the guy and was expecting him to pay for his own food at least).

      5) Then he comes into a forum where he expects to get patted on the back for being an asshole (which he does, to my dismay). He's hiding behind his computer screen looking for online validation and whacking off to youporn instead of getting properly laid.

      Everything about this is weak willed, retarded, neckbeard, creepy stalker behaviour. This is not a lesson to emulate and I hope the dude learns something from what little criticism there currently is in this thread.

      [–]Adhominthem 19 points20 points  (3 children)

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      Did you really just conclude that this guy likely date rapes people because you don't agree with how he handled this situation? What the fuck man

      [–]through_a_ways 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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      Ugh but he's so creepy

      [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

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      No. I said he gives off an untrustworthy vibe... the same vibe that would cause me to never trust him with anything, and that would cause a chick to feel she couldn't trust him not to take advantage of them. In this case it's not an "I can't say he's fat, so I'll call him creepy" it's that the dude is honestly creepy, as in, don't trust this guy farther than you can throw him. And he lives up to it: he goes to dinner as a pair and walks out on the tab leaving the other person stuck with the bill. Doesn't matter if it was a girl or another guy, the guy is a spineless person who is too afraid of confrontation to ask for what he wants and when he doesn't get what he wants he gets pissed and vindictive then feels justified in fucking over the people he's with. That is the type of mentality that will have someone steal $20 from you when you aren't looking even though you would have given it to them if they had asked... or date rape because they aren't confident enough to get laid but feel entitled and angry.

      [–]SupALupRT 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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      That womenz privilege.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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      [deleted]

        [–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

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        No. A woman would have seen it as his responsibility to pay from the start, rather than hold his feet to the fire for agreeing to pay.

        [–]furythree 8 points9 points  (29 children)

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        Owning up to losing control of the situation and paying for the meal? Fuck that. Why punish yourself further

        [–]snoodleflap 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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        If some guy did it to me I'd be ready to kick his ass.

        two questions...

        1) you would really resort to attacking and trying to hurt another person because of this?

        2) if you are a woman, do you really think you could physically overpower a grown man?

        [–]SupALupRT 1 point2 points  (4 children)

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        Couldn't disagree more. She tried to take advantage of him and flipped the script. Being weak and clueless with women is not a open invitation to be a ATM card. Not surprised your defending her though. That's what nice guys are for right? To be used? While I don't agree with how he handled it I can definitely understand why he did it. As a woman you can't.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

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        He flipped the script and beat her by acting like a crazier chick than she was. That's a flagrant display of feminine/hyper-beta behavior, which is why he ended up whacking off at home on the internet instead of getting laid. This isn't an example of TRP, it's a story of the day a girl met a guy who was more of a woman than she was.

        [–]SupALupRT 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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        I disagree. Hyper-beta would of been to drop 180$ or whatever on her. He actually made a calculated move to punish her shitty behavior and escape relatively unscathed. If its ok for a girl to assume hes paying why cant a guy assume the same when she invited him to that joint?

        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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        Nope. That's just typical beta behavior.

        In a monkey troop, the beta male doing all sorts of favors for the female to try to gain her favor is a typical beta activity. If the beta male gets pissed, throws a tantrum, and starts throwing poo at the female then runs and hides from her, that's above and beyond the norm for typical beta mentality. That's what this guy did.

        It would have been fine for him to assume the woman is paying for inviting him. He could have waited for the check to come, and then tell her that since she chose the place, he expected that she was going to be paying, then wait for her to squirm (I think that would be retarded though since no social script in existence would lead to this turn of events, he'd just look dense). Then he could offer to pay his half. That would be taking responsibility for his own actions and "teaching a lesson" to the girl while demonstrating some semblance of alpha behavior. That's not what he did though. He ran away. He ran away from not just the girl, but from the restaraunt staff, lying the whole way. He's not just confrontation averse, he's pathologically so.

        And honestly, it should have never escalated to this level to begin with. It was only his fear of confrontation that allowed them to get to the point of sitting down in the restaraunt in the first place.

        The fact that he then goes and advertises his own humiliation on the internet to seek out validation is the most pathetic. He's actively looking for troop support from the other betas that it's okay to throw poo at females then run and hide because they are mean to betas. The fact that he actually FINDS support from the beta troop, in TRP of all places, is disturbing.

        [–]SupALupRT 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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        I think you misunderstand. No one is holding this up as a redpill or alpha example. There is just a certain satisfaction people always get when shitty people get their comeuppance.

        [–]SgtBrutalisk 1 point2 points  (3 children)

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        rapey

        creepy

        rape fest

        neckbeard

        Get out.

        [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children)

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        Am I being kicked off the internet for using "trigger words"?

        [–]SgtBrutalisk 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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        I got so upset by your comment that I threw my fedora at the monitor but because my arms are so feeble, it harmlessly bounced off.

        I am seriously considering verbally raping you. No free drinks, though.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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        Damn. Rape ain't worth it without the free drink.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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        [deleted]

          [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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          Naw. I see that. The thing is 1) This forum isn't here to school chicks on how to behave, so pointing out flaws in her behavior is just circle jerking in this context. We're supposedly here to study useful information on how to alter our own behavior to be more successful. 2) This dude is being lauded as a good example of what to do. I think he's one of the worst. It's a perfect example of beta behavior putting him into a beta predicament and then throwing a beta temper tantrum and getting himself beta results. There is literally no value in this story except to serve as a bad example. It has a "feel good ending" in that the guy one-ups the chick in the end, but that's the saddest part... he one-ups her in the most passive aggressive demonstration of feminine attributes possible outside of keying her car and reporting her for rape.

          He should have 1) told her no to the restaurant 2) failing that, selected a venue he was comfortable with or 3) failing that told her they were splitting the check or 4) failing that at least fucking paid for the food he ordered or 5) failing that at least owned up to the chick that he couldn't even afford his own fucking food and cried into his steak in embarrassment hopefully learning some self respect in the process rather than posting his failure on craigslist and getting a bro-hamster internet high-five for standing up to this creepy femnazi who was out to rape him.

          In all reality she was just acting how a chick is going to act and he's got to get used to it. The whole point of TRP is to expect this behavior and use your own masculine attributes to fend it off and/or capitalize upon it. TRP is not about turning into a crazy chick yourself and getting community props for doing so. If this place turns into men's version of a psycho-feminist support group for spineless beta males who can't cut it then I'm out.

          And yeah.. the dude is genuinely creepy. Would YOU hang out at the bar with a dude who when he didn't get what he want threw a temper tantrum, purposefully tried to fuck you over, then ran to the internet for validation? I'd kick a bro to the curb for that shit same as a chick. That's crazy chick behavior, not alpha male.

          [–]BlackBlueCaribou 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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          I completely agree in him not really doing the correct Red Pill things. Yes, he might be gradually getting there someday. Overall though, I still think it's damn funny and enjoyed reading the end. Classic...

          [–]Frensel 11 points12 points  (0 children)

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          Being too fucking scared to pick up your damn jacket is a "red pill" story? What?

          [–]BakerAtNMSU 17 points18 points  (0 children)

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          just the other day i saw a cheap windbreaker in my closet and wondered when i was ever gonna wear that again....

          now i know

          and knowing is half the battle

          [–]Lesic 6 points7 points  (5 children)

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          During my student days at the university I dated girls of various ages, from different classes of society, while being part of the lower mid class myself.

          Some of my dates were free with 0 money involved, some didn't cost me nothing, some were laughably cheap, some were exorbitantly expensive, some reasonable.

          Important thing to notice is that some girls from the higher classes, more rich ones, have much different opinion on what is expensive and what is cheap. Spending 80 euros on cocktails and two salads was absolutely normal and a part of every day routine for one of them.

          My part of the monthly rent for the house I was renting with five friends was 90 euros. There were no more expensive dates during the rest of our relationship that lasted two months, either we were at her place or she came to mu house, with occasional walks by the river, ice skating, free concerts, etc...

          [–]jurtis 11 points12 points  (0 children)

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          Hahahahah, I recently pulled some of the same shit at a nightclub. Chick was being boring, so I left without a word to anyone. Let's just say: she followed up.

          Not a lot of people do shit like this. Good read. Proud of ya, buddy

          [–]per1klez 7 points8 points  (1 child)

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          should go back to the restaurant and see if he can get his jacket back

          [–]Linoran 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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          She probably stole and sold it.

          [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children)

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          No girl you just met is worth losing your jacket over. Should have kept your frame and got coffee.

          [–]avinasser 2 points3 points  (2 children)

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          Practice trumps theory. If this story is true this guy deserves 30 beers. fucking smart.

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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          I get girls to pay for my food on dates. How many beers do I get?

          [–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (2 children)

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          Bravo, well played good sir.

          I actually learned something from this post. Mental note: Wear cheap jacket on blind dates.

          [–]rockmasterflex 15 points16 points  (1 child)

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          This is actually a brilliant strategem tho. Everybody has tons of sweaters and general over-wear that their grandmothers give them throughout their lives. Just bring one with you to EVERY first date. And leave it on the seat when you smell a parasite.

          I can just imagine how much effort women will go through to counter this strat by ditching first, using decoy purses....

          Also, use a google voice number, not your real number, for a first date. It helps. And its free.

          [–]abcd_z 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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          Or you could... just not spend money on her.

          EDIT: What? It's a valid solution.

          [–]Sturmgeist781 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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          Hahaha, fucking right.

          [–]mrscrillo 6 points7 points  (3 children)

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          If she didn't act like such a brat at dinner, would you have paid her tab? Were you punishing her for being a self-centered cunt who couldn't carry a conversation that isn't about her? Cause I feel like somewhere along the journey, after she ordered her fifth merlot maybe, or better yet right when you saw the menu and the prices, you could have straightened out who was paying or if ya'll were splitting the bill. A quick bit of communication could have diverted the situation, saved both of you from an awkward and angry feelings. But then again, it should be universally accepted meeting decent people on clist is not to be expected, meaning she is a social tard if she expected you to pay that shit

          [–]p3ndulum 15 points16 points  (2 children)

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          OP is not the guy who went on the date, he just found this story on CraigsList.

          [–]mrscrillo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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          oh.

          [–]jurtis 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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          FUCK. And here I was thinking that the OP was a total bro

          [–]CapnScumbone 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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          Ahh, dinner whores. Thankfully, my sensors are set for those.

          [–]LukeMooney 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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          If a bitch is hungry, give her something to suck on.

          [–]JohnPeel 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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          Why take her there and then why lose the jacket? FFS.

          [–]Espada18 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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          Reminds me of a girl who facebooked me asking me if I knew a place where she can get her nails done, so I meet her the next day take her there; she gets her nail done and everything and then she looks at me, asking me to pay.

          [–]Endorsed ContributorAerobus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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          You know, good for him. I mean it.

          [–]pericardiyum 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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          This made me smile. Thanks for sharing.

          [–]costaman 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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          I hope this man has a shit eating smile on his face that looks like mine. Paging /r/justiceporn

          [–]Fantastical14 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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          Awesome. That is female entitlement hamster at its best.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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          Good job man. That bitch must have felt so horrible. What a cunt would expect you to pay for all this.

          [–]ownage99988 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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          I would have told the guy what was happening, paid yours, and left.

          [–]1RXRob 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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          He felt uncomfortable and so he bailed. This should be a lesson that every kid is learning, not a funny story from an adult.

          [–]Jessie_James 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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          And this is why my first dates are always for (alcoholic) drinks.

          No movies. No dinners. No parties. No anything else. You can get rid of nearly every woman who is trying to use you this way.

          [–]tubulardude 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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          haha that was gold. good on him for pulling the trigger.

          [–]Abadoobie -2 points-1 points  (4 children)

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          He is an asshole and a coward. He's an asshole for making her pay for what he ordered rather than taking responsibility for himself. It's fine to refuse to pay for her or help her out of a situation she created for herself but he forced her to pay for choices HE made in the same way that she wanted him to pay for choices SHE made. He did the same thing to her as she was essentially doing to him.

          He's a coward because he ran away rather than having the stones to confront and handle the eventual conflict. This might make some feel like it was a victory in some gender war, or give them a sense of revenge or justice or power but it's sad and cowardly.

          He didn't have to lose his jacket, pay for her food or run away like a coward. He could have simply payed for what he ordered and left her to deal with her own choices. This was petty and cowardly and unworthy of praise. Better still had he stayed for her shock and surprise and outrage and explained exactly what was happening while he finished his meal with her panicking.

          Learn to handle conflict better, develop some courage and the fortitude to endure the uncomfortable. This story isn't TRP, this was juvenile and petty.

          [–]nineteenseventy 1 point2 points  (3 children)

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          Learn to handle conflict better, develop some courage and the fortitude to endure the uncomfortable.

          Tell me how your night would have ended in this scenario?

          I don't know where you grew up, but if you don't have a job or the money you don't go out to run a $200 bill. Man or woman.

          How would you feel if I came over your house to hang out and watch a UFC match and ordered $200 worth of ppv? And you knew I didn't have the means to pay you back?

          [–]Abadoobie 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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          Tell me how your night would have ended in this scenario?

          I already did, inform the server the table's bill is split and pay for my own portion. Then leave the girl to deal with her own mess and find something else to do for the rest of the evening.

          I don't know where you grew up, but if you don't have a job or the money you don't go out to run a $200 bill. Man or woman.

          I agree? Not sure why you're mentioning this.

          How would you feel if I came over your house to hang out and watch a UFC match and ordered $200 worth of ppv? And you knew I didn't have the means to pay you back?

          I would be annoyed. If I couldn't afford it I would be angry. But in this scenario the PPV was ordered on my account and I'm legally responsible for that. In the above scenario, she isn't ordering on my account and I'm not legally responsible for paying. The two are not the same.

          [–]nineteenseventy 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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          I would be annoyed. If I couldn't afford it I would be angry.

          Bingo.

          But in this scenario the PPV was ordered on my account and I'm legally responsible for that.

          Live a little. If the girl thinks she can pull one over one you then you better top her. Not to mention she never wanted to split and said upfront to OP, I have no job or any money.

          How would you have acted if she said lets go to a {insert very rich and expensive restaurant} but moments before she told you she has no cash or a job? Oh and then she starts ordering up a bill?

          How about if you were a poor college student instead? How would you react then? How would you act if your friend did order $200 worth of PPV. Would you have even agreed to it in the first place?

          This is the whole point of The Red Pill, stand up for yourself and control your life and don't let someone decide things for you, or spend your money.

          [–]Abadoobie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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          Bingo.

          What's your point?

          Live a little. If the girl thinks she can pull one over one you then you better top her. Not to mention she never wanted to split and said upfront to OP, I have no job or any money.

          This man failed to exert any control or dominance at any point. He was failing from the very start. If he decided to pay for her he should have kept it under budget or relinquished that responsibility. Instead he let her drag him around by the nose. Then it got too much for him so he panicked and ran away.

          How would you have acted if she said lets go to a {insert very rich and expensive restaurant} but moments before she told you she has no cash or a job? Oh and then she starts ordering up a bill?

          I would start by being content with ending this date at any time if I'm not getting what I want. She only has power over you if you're not willing to walk away. Always be ready to do that. If I was willing to pay then I would go. If I wasn't then I would have denied her request and done something else.

          Women play the social game to manipulate you into a position where it's socially, morally, financially or emotional costly for you to act other than how they want. Most often threatening shame or embarrassment. As long as you're aware of the game you can decide when to indulge it and when not to.

          Sometimes cutting through the bullshit of indirect communication with directness is how you do that. Call her on her manipulative, doublespeak bullshit and watch her scramble to defend herself, to maintain that illusion of social acceptability that her motives are in direct opposition to. Women spend a lot of time on their image to mask their underlying motives. If you know the motives(in this case free food and a night out) and you know the game, you can use it against them.

          By mentioning her lack of funds, she's indirectly getting you to agree to pay(what she wants). Once that is established, she'll leverage her affections(the thing you want) against you by making you worried saying no will displease her and you'll lose her affections. Since you've already agreed to pay and if she's willing to walk away, you have no leverage and no power. This dude felt powerless, so he ran away to hid from the problem.

          How about if you were a poor college student instead? How would you react then? How would you act if your friend did order $200 worth of PPV. Would you have even agreed to it in the first place?

          If I couldn't afford it I would deny the request. Assuming a friend did so without my knowledge or agreement, I would directly seek recompense for the funds and question his motives. Depending on what transpired after that, I would either be rid of this person or we would resolve the conflict. The money is gone either way and short of stealing his shit or taking him to small claims court, there isn't anything I can do to force him to pay. The damage is done. That isn't the case in the story above. She can't force him to pay for anything.

          This is the whole point of The Red Pill, stand up for yourself and control your life and don't let someone decide things for you, or spend your money.

          This man stood up only long enough to run away. That isn't admirable, that's sad. He also failed to exert any control at any point in the story. This is a tale of TRP failure, not success. He was only in that situation because he failed, his solution was to run away instead of standing up for himself. He let her run up the bill unopposed and then bailed when it got too difficult for him to handle.

          [–]avinasser -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

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          For the idiots who think his actions were blue-pill, they obviously were not. They were savvy. Some James Bond shit right there. That is all I will say.

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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          [deleted]

            [–]SweetiePieJonas -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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            I could have sworn I saw this exact scenario earlier today on reddit.

            [–]boogalooshrimp1103 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

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            i love it