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[–]16 Endorsed ContributorTRPsubmitter 189 points190 points  (25 children)

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Wah! Why can't they treat us like ya know...a human!?! Ugh, so objectifying! /s

Also, this redpill gem from /u/MoogleVivi:

A nine or ten. If it's a hookup, I don't really give two shits about your personality or how great (or not great) of a guy you are, your hopes and dreams, or how many kids you want. I'm not saying the guy has to be a ten on the looks scale, just that at the end of the night, there's a really damn good chance that if I'm debating on sleeping with you, how attractive I find you will play a big part in my decision.

And yet these same hamsters get upset when men say LITERALLY THE EXACT SAME THING about choosing women to sleep with. I'm talking about the exact same words being criticized as sexist if they come out of a man's mouth.

[–]aresta[S] 61 points62 points  (21 children)

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Look dude, it's as simple as this we know and women know. When it comes to sex and relationships women are realists.

Women know they better stop fucking around and find a hubby before they are too late. Women know men care about looks so they know to put on makeup. Women know men don't like sluts, so they lie about the guys they been with.

Pretending to not know is a big part of what gives women their strength. Women don't have muscles like we do but they sure know how to gain social power and influence.

Asian women that date White guys hamster away saying it's not looks not social mobility etc..just Asian guys don't approach me etc..

When Black men asked why they date White girls... I love me some White pussy.

[–][deleted]  (19 children)

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[deleted]

    [–]aresta[S] 57 points58 points  (18 children)

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    they don't hide it until it comes time to settle with Asian beta.

    [–][deleted]  (17 children)

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    [deleted]

      [–]aresta[S] 18 points19 points  (10 children)

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      [–]Devinity 8 points9 points  (9 children)

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      It's so fucking annoying. You can be in great shape, make a lot of money, be well-traveled and interesting, but if you're asian (or worse, an asian of below average height), the most average white guy is going to one-up you.

      Source: 5'8" asian guy.

      [–]Sturmgeist781 8 points9 points  (0 children)

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      Can confirm.

      Source: 6'1" white guy

      [–]Dark triad expert: - http://illimitablemen.com/ - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 2 points3 points  (3 children)

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      This is fucked up, why is it that way? Anyone got any insight? I keep seeing this repeated over and over, but where I live we have a tiny asian population so I don't get to observe this phenomenon.

      [–]_JustKnight_ 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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      For women social status is everything. White people are inherently seen as higher status in most of the world thanks to European colonization. There are advantages to being the most successful race on the planet.

      Source: South Asian guy, white worship is rampant in our culture. Being called "fair skinned" is considered one of the greatest compliments. I know from dating an Asian girl for a few years that their culture is very similar.

      [–]MeatheadEsq 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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      I'll agree with justknight's statement about race as social status.

      But, I'll add that Asian guys generally don't present themselves well. Many Asian guys act and look like white nerds: scrawny, timid, and unable to conform to social norms. They thus experience the same rejection.

      [–]hq8 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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      And when Asian men are alpha they become like Rufio, surrounded by lost boys.

      [–]MeatheadEsq 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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      I keep hearing this, but I don't see it. I'm a half-asian of average height. I've been working out since high school, came from an affluent neighborhood, and am "well-traveled and interesting." My success rate is as good as any of my "cool" white friends...and I only go for hot white girls.

      Is there a hurdle? Sure. I'm also not going to deny that ceteris paribus, girls will pick a white dude over an Asian one. But, if a girl picks the "most average white guy" (pudgy/5'9/$50k) over a fit, successful, socially competent Asian guy... that Asian guy is doing something wrong.

      [–]Devinity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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      Probably depends how apparent it is that you're of asian descent. My brother looks much less asian than I do and he's got a hot white girlfriend, so I think that may be a factor.

      [–]Cross_of_Coronado 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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      Are Asians really that fucked? Are we talking about Koreans here, or Japanese or Chinese?

      [–]RedSpectrum 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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      Asian americans of all ethnicities

      [–]Pattheboss56 15 points16 points  (0 children)

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      A quote that hit me hard early on in Redpill was Rational male "women are realists turned romantic, and men are romantics turned realist".

      Women definitely know how their sexual strategy works and capitalize on it, but they will deny it until the day they die and say they want that Disney relationship.

      [–]5 Endorsed Contributorgekkozorz 15 points16 points  (1 child)

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      This is why I love it when feminists complain about Teh Male Gaize.

      Because Channing Tatum and Ryan Gosling are popular because of their wonderful personalities, right?

      Women are always going on about how it's "problematic" and "shallow" when men have a preference for petite 22-year-olds with great asses and long, feminine hair. We're always told that we should be attracted to women for their careers, personality, sense of humor, hopes and dreams, etc.

      And then they go and say this - "I only bang 9's and 10's, I don't care who they are as people."

      [–]valesauce 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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      She seems like she wants to know my dreams and hopes after she meets the first man to give her a real orgasm.

      [–]19 Endorsed Contributordrrrrrr 133 points134 points  (12 children)

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      Women's memories / recollections of their past hookups are highly subjective, especially given that hookup culture is synonymous with alcohol, whether in college or nightclubs or bars. Women will often remember guys as being more alpha than they were as a way of making it seem more reasonable that they failed to lock down his commitment (as well as thinking if this 10 was into me, I must be pretty hot).

      In reality, attraction is not a choice. She does not understand what attracts her, she does not know why she feels it for a certain guy, so she understands it as "he is handsome" or "he is fun". In reality, it's that he has status, power, AND enough good looks to not discount him from the running. Your SMV is composed of several areas which together let you bat at a certain level - and guys who "get" game on an instinctive level will optimize how they present their SMV to make it seem a bit higher.

      Don't ever take women's words at face value when it comes to men, ever. Just never do it, I'm sorry, no matter how well intentioned or smart the woman might be, she doesn't understand what she is attracted to on a specific level. My own GF will say dumb shit like "oh I'm not attracted to guys with muscles" and I'll say I'm 200 lbs and relatively big. "Oh yeah, well, other guys with muscles I mean. If you get more muscley you will be gross too, I hate veiny muscles!" Then 6 months later I cut down to 8-9% BF and got pretty veiny, and she loved it.

      What happened was that she, student who thought of herself as highly intelligent, highly evolved, etc, didn't like the idea of being the type of person who got wet for dumb muscle-bro types, so she honestly convinced herself that was the case.

      Indian women who "aren't attracted to Indian guys" are completely like this too. I've dated 4-5 Indian girls who all said this. It makes them feel badass and cool and selective to say, so they say it. In reality, what they are saying is, I don't date low value men of any race, and a lot of Indians happen to come across as low value from the get-go due to their lack of knowledge on how to present themselves in America.

      The women who understand how female attraction works go on to write romance novels and make easy bank selling simple female fantasy tropes. The rest of women understand their attraction systems the way that the average person understands cloud computing. They have a vague idea of what it's all about, and can learn about how to use it well, but they certainly aren't fit to explain it to the class.

      [–]1aguy01 19 points20 points  (0 children)

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      It's like when women say "I need a guy that can make me laugh" but they just laugh at anything an attractive, confident man says, even though he usually is not really funny. The less attractive guys she friendzoned are great clowns that make her laugh, but that doesn't get them laid.

      [–]Dvelli 18 points19 points  (1 child)

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      fucking Bravo! I think this is one of the hardest parts of TRP, to stop treating women like they rational, thoughtful human beings when it comes to the topic of sex. I especially like this part of your post

      Women's memories / recollections of their past hookups are highly subjective, especially given that hookup culture is synonymous with alcohol, whether in college or nightclubs or bars. Women will often remember guys as being more alpha than they were as a way of making it seem more reasonable that they failed to lock down his commitment (as well as thinking if this 10 was into me, I must be pretty hot).

      [–]southernfriedcode 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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      Women's memories / recollections of their past hookups are highly subjective

      This is the key point. Memories are subjective to begin with. Women don't just rationalize hookups but everything else in their lives as well. Relationships, careers, friends, everything is hamstered away.

      [–]subcover 9 points10 points  (0 children)

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      "The women who understand how female attraction works go on to write romance novels and make easy bank selling simple female fantasy tropes."

      Yes, but I remember a few years ago it was hypothesized that some frequent bestselling author of those stories was actually using a computer program to write them. They are so formulaic.

      And since it is an algorithm, we can discuss it here on TRP.

      [–]brotential 5 points6 points  (1 child)

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      Damn, this is exactly what I thought when reading that askreddit thread. Another thing the thread omits for obvious reasons is how hot these women are. For all we know these broads who fucked "male 10s" are old, fat, homely, or any combination thereof rendering them desperate and thus hypergamously inclined to regard a male 7 as a 10, or to settle for being a 10's pump and dump. The fact that they are bragging about it on reddit lends credibility to this suspicion.

      [–]1KyfhoMyoba 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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      Well, that's not very likely. I'm not saying that it never happens, but I'm a 6 to 7, my count is into 3 digits, and I've NEVER banged a 4 or below. Most guys have SOME standards, not all guys, but most, and I would think that the 9 and 10 guys would have even better standards than I do.

      It's just that social media allows ALL the girls, especially the below average ones to interact with more men and allows for more hook ups. The bottom men will still be sexless and thirsty, but as you approach the above average, they will be getting more and more pussy, even though it's not (likely) the 7-10 range.

      [–]16 Endorsed ContributorDemonspawn 4 points5 points  (5 children)

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      The women who understand how female attraction works go on to write romance novels and make easy bank selling simple female fantasy tropes.

      And this explains why /u/girlwriteswhat is so much more in tune with the IS of reality rather than the Ought that so many other MRAs discuss.

      It's also why I bemoan the separation of TRP and MRA. Back when the two were virtually the same movement (TRP focused individually while MRA focused socially), the MRA focused on IS and reality rather than this insipid desire for equality above all else that it has now.

      [–]Ironhigh 113 points114 points  (1 child)

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      That entire thread translates to:

      I'm a plate and I'm proud!

      [–]1 Endorsed Contributormordanus 19 points20 points  (4 children)

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      I've been reading trp for a while now and every now and then things like this still take me off guard. It blows me away to hear women actually talk about this shit.

      [–]aresta[S] 22 points23 points  (3 children)

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      See women for what they are not the angels you want them to be. When you see things like this the world makes much more sense.

      [–]LineOfCoke 3 points4 points  (2 children)

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      yeah but for the critics, the skeptics, the newbs and the haters, this kinda shit is the thing that shakes their worldview like a snomglobe, and when the particles settle shit dun changed.

      [–]1wiseclockcounter 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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      snomglobe

      totally thought you were pulling out some willy wonka shit on us, lol.

      [–]1chivalry_augustus 40 points41 points  (14 children)

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      The thing is, this right here is why normal guys are having such trouble in relationships. Every woman you know and are interested in will have, at some point in her life, fucked a guy who is well above her station. Add to that the entitlement level of most women nowadays and you get into the stupid logic of women whereby they believe that their sexual value is their relationship value. Then these girls, say they're 5s, are turning down guys who are within their relationship range (5s and 6s) because they're still thinking of that 8 or 9 they fucked before (or the string of 8 or 9s).

      Yeah, you can add strings to your bow as a normal guy but you're kidding yourself if you think that, because you turned yourself from a 5 into a decent 7, you suddenly make her wet in the way some other guy did before. And it's alright talking about sluts being the worst ones for this, but it's the girls with a low count who are the worst for this - the girls who have had 3, 4 or 5 guys. These girls are picky, and they think that because they're picky and because through their pickiness they have fucked a higher quality of guy that they have a greater value and are more deserving of said higher quality guys.

      It's a convoluted mess for many and that's why you see guys who are solid 7s walking around with 4s, because the whole world has deluded the 4 girl into thinking that she can fuck 8s and the 7 guy into thinking that he can only fuck 4s. And if you can only pull a 4 and 4s are all you have ever pulled, what are you going to think as a logical creature that you are? And if you're a 4 who has pulled 8s, what are you going to think as an emotional creature that you are? You see, our nature is being used against us, while women use theirs against themselves, and the result is a clusterfuck in which 99.99% of women are not worth dating, because you'll never be their Prince. Even if you're their alpha, you'll never be their Prince.

      The dynamic changes slightly as they get towards their late 20s and start realising the difference between guys who will fuck them and guys who will love them, but don't kid yourself that it ever changes in favour of the men. The majority of men love women, the majority of men worship women, the majority of men would die for the sake of a woman's devotion. But all they get is a half-arsed commitment from a woman who has run her race, who has ground herself into the dirt, had her fun, and will get the best of both worlds. Guys who had to scrape around for the 4s, despite being solid, decent guys, will end up being the playthings of girls who have done better, and who will always be gripped by the memory of the better men she had in her life, even if only for mere moments. Yeah, you're a great guy, but ...

      People can rattle on about being alpha all they want but guys like me will never get over the hurdle of realising that no relationship with a woman can ever fulfil us. That no amount of one-night stands can ever fill that hole inside. That all the feelings that once gripped us where women are concerned are now blindly flailing in the darkness, seeking a release. And that, somewhere, the world has completely gone to shit and there's no refuge for any of us who just are normal, no better than, no worse. Just normal. You could be with a girl for ever and a day, but you're as replaceable in her life as a light bulb, and no matter how ugly or handsome you are, if she's young enough and available enough, she can replace you promptly and without much fuss. No amount of red pill strategy changes that, no amount of game or pussy can fill that abyss.

      I know, I know. I'm a wimpy beta for saying it, there is no 'one', etc., etc., women don't love as men do, blah de blah. I know, I know. But don't kid yourselves, any of you, no matter how alpha you are, that you don't yearn for that poetic love, that fantastical love, that real love, not just a simulacrum of love. Women cannot fill a void, yet life cannot fill the void of lovelessness. Some men cannot do without love, yet men like me who realise that there is no love can barely tolerate the idea of knowing what women really are. For all the talk of men being shallow, too, I would counter that by saying that men in love are utterly devoted. I have seen men in love and they will live and die by their love. Women in love? It's a hollow, savage kind of love. Once you swallow that pill, that is what hurts you the most. Seeing the feminine ideal of love and what it truly represents, that is what tears you apart.

      But you can only keep on living. Me? I feel more and more like a MGTOW. Not because I don't like women but because I can't bear them any more. Excuse the ranty nature of this post but it's just how I feel, not for me, but for men as a collective. I just cannot tolerate it when I see my brother fucking a 3 just because. And he's the one who's lucky, apparently. It makes me feel fucked up.

      [–]Dark triad expert: - http://illimitablemen.com/ - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 12 points13 points  (1 child)

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      The fact women are so shitty nowadays is the reason I've come to appreciate my mother more than I ever did before TRP. I know that's a woman who unconditionally loves me, and will do so regardless of who or what I am. No other woman is going to have that kind of loyalty or compassion for me and make the same level of sacrifice that my mother has and will do for me.

      A mother will almost always put you above herself in terms of priority, a wife or girlfriend will not, they will always put themselves first and expect you to do the same, unlike your mother, these women are selfish and out for themselves completely and utterly and perhaps most heartbreakingly of all, they are incapable of that type of love. A mother sees you as her baby no matter how old you are, she will always love you in the way that only a mother can. Mothers are a real treasure because no matter how old you get you're on the receiving end of maternal love. A lot of guys look for this same kind of love in their romantic lives but it is short-sighted, any woman other than your mother cannot love you like that, romantic non-familial love doesn't work like that. Romantic love in women is far inferior, it is utterly conditional, fleeting, and opportunistic without loyalty. None of the loyalty or compassion of motherly love is there. They don't want to give you motherly love, they want to receive strong paternal love (loyalty, makes her feel special, makes her feel safe blah blah blah.)

      You see another way women "win" is they look for a man that was like her father, strong, makes her feel safe and etc and they can have that when they find it in a guy who has those traits. If a man looks for the kind of love his mother gave him, he will be utterly disappointed because no woman will show him those traits and even in the obscure scenario where he does manage to find a simulacrum of such a thing, the relationship will quickly degenerate as he "failed to take charge", unlike your mother, you can't be vulnerable with these women without being punished, they will detest you for weakness, they will find you unattractive and at the very worst a woman scorned will hate you for it.

      Being a man is fucking hard and underappreciated shit. I salute all the husbands and fathers out there basically giving up their happiness for the greater good, most of them are fucking miserable because they're always in last place. A woman is only expected to put her children first, as a man you're expected to put women and children first. You're the least important person in the equation and that hits home most at the emotional level where like any human you have psychological needs that nobody else is there to fulfil. We're taught by BP society that relationships are mutual and reciprocal, that you should share these things with your significant other, but the men here can all attest doing that spells disaster for the relationship, these women aren't really interested in your weakness, and even if they do care about you like that, as soon as you show that side of yourself to them a switch flips and the hamster starts explaining why they "don't feel the same about you anymore." I've said it before and I'll say it again, you are the end of the line, the kid can look up to its parents, the woman can look up to her man but who do you have? Nobody but yourself. It's a tough red pill to swallow. This is why good male friendships are so important, they can relate to where you come from without immediately disrespecting you for showing human weakness. When it comes to a women you need to be solid as a rock, stoic to the end, slaughtering shit tests, basically you'd be very sexy if you had the emotional resilience of a robot, ironically, something many women project onto men as a caricature of our emotional complexity, little do they know...

      [–]valesauce 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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      Actually all my relationships with women are better than with my mother. Blue pills are made by bad mothers, whether by abuse or by bad choice in father. Mine was an unfit mother and neglected me, I never felt loved despite her dealing with my bs. I'll take conditional love over unconditional neglect any day. Having a cute girl adore me makes me stronger because it is better than what I had as Asa child.

      [–]chainlinks 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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      You sound like a man who has been scorned but I like your vibe man.

      I'm not sure how long you've been in this place you're coming from, but for me the angst didn't last forever.

      I've been single for almost 6 years now and I'm finally starting to come around to the idea of a woman being your sidekick rather than your soul mate.

      I'll be honest I've had a decent amount of success with women my whole life (I'm no higher than a 7) so maybe that comes into play, but I think what really help me turn the corner is reading some biographies on great men (i.e. Steve Jobs, Ben Franklin). Getting a close up on men that achieve great things I've noticed some patterns... But I'll leave that up to you to discover.

      Good luck brotha, it gets better.

      [–]Pubesauce 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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      I used to possess a lot of anger at the world for the way things are. I still do to a lesser degree. However once I truly accepted that romantic love is a myth, it cleared up a lot of that turmoil I felt inside.

      I've come to the conclusion that the closest you'll come to having a true "soulmate" is the bond with your child (or with your parents) or the bond you shared with best (male) friends as a kid. From what I understand, in some other cultures the most important relationship is between a father and son. And I think they may be on the right track as far as having a more fulfilling life.

      It hurt tremendously to accept that romantic love is just a cover for the real relationship dynamics which amount to little more than a business deal. You are valued for what benefits you can bring to your partner's life and vice versa. When that value drops, you're likely to get dropped as well. We do our children no favors by carrying on this idea that someone will "love them for who they are" one day. It's nonsense and it ends up causing more trouble than the blunt truth would in the long run.

      [–]Yoda7 5 points6 points  (4 children)

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      The only solution is for the quality men to drop out and refuse to be a part of the problem. I will not bang 4s just because that's what is there. That's reactive. When a bulk of the good men are no longer feeding the system, maybe it will face a correction.

      [–]valesauce 1 point2 points  (3 children)

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      Not saying it's you but there's a lot of red pill 3-5 men who think they are 7+. I'm short poor and introverted, I can get a woman to call me by a title of my choosing. What's their excuse other than being a little bitch?

      [–]Yoda7 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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      Im a solid 6 - 6.5. Some areas of the country are good for dating and some are bad. Im in an area that has a surplus of men, and a xenophobic culture. If you didnt grow up here, you are an outsider for good. Unless you are amazing, like 8+. The women here know they can pick up a phone and get 3 men there by the end of the day if they want. They just dont care about meeting new people. Theres no social scene. It sucks. If you got the game to pull that off, good for you. I dont, and honestly Im not going to jump through those hoops. Not worth the effort. So Ill do my own thing. When the time is right Ill move to an area with a positive scene.

      [–]valesauce 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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      Focus on making it fun for you. If you hang around women who are dull and gaming them is a chore then yea life sucks. Turn it into a game and focus on women who are responsive and not too bitchy and fun to be around. I'll take a 6 I can train into an 8 who adores me over a 10 who is is a fucking cunt.

      [–]Yoda7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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      The thing is, dealing with those kind of women are draining and frankly kinda insulting. They aren't any better than me and I feel not good enough on the most part. I have an extremely low tolerance for bs now. So the first sign of games I delete their number and never hear from them again usually. Possessing a vagina isn't a super power, nor does it make you a god. So I'm certainly not bp or bb in my approach.

      [–]dallz_beep 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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      no amount of one-night stands can ever fill that hole inside

      You were doing so well until here.

      Where's the fire in your belly? Where's your powerful male drive to do awesome things with your life? Women are chocolate cake. Surely you can find other interests and not take them so seriously. They're just permanent mental teenagers.

      When it's time to have kids simply go foreign. There's a big world out there with plenty of higher caliber women for all of us.

      The truth has set you free, yet you yearn for a fantasy you had back when you were still in chains.

      [–]trp_que 35 points36 points  (4 children)

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      I wonder how many girls that claim they only "go after 10s" simply end up hooking up with a guy that had solid game and they rationalize him as a "10" aesthetically.

      [–]HahahahaWaitWhat 21 points22 points  (0 children)

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      Based on my experience? All of them.

      I'm pretty sure I'm too skinny to be considered a 10 myself, and yet I've had more one night stands than I can count. Meanwhile there's no shortage of "nice" guys that work out every day and struggle to ever get laid.

      The simplest explanation is that these women are simply full of it.

      [–]bertstare10 9 points10 points  (0 children)

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      I dunno man... how many of these 10/10 guys are going to be sleeping with some 7/10 just because they can't get any?

      I'm def not a 10/10. My buddy is very very attractive. He only sleeps with girls who are also on his level.

      [–]karmaisdharma 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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      No one here seems to realize they aren't using the scale 1-10 as 1 being ugly 10 being hottest guy ever. It's 1 being looks don't matter at all in a ONS and 10 is that's all that matters.

      [–]1aguy01 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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      A big part of attraction for women is the intangibles. A guy who is physically an 8 (barely top 20% of men) but has a great personality and high-status is going to be a 10. A guy that's physically a 10 but awkward and unconfident will be rated much lower.

      Women use a totally different rating system. If a girl is hot, she's hot. Personality does not make a girl more or less fuckable, just more or less bearable. Not so with men. Personality and leadership can generate huge increases or decreases in attractiveness. Look at JayZ. He is one of the ugliest dudes I've ever seen but he has huge status and confidence and has probably fucked 1000s of bitches.

      [–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (2 children)

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      Don't you understand though? Just because she spent the entire prime of her youth and fertility riding 10/10 Alpha cock doesn't mean that she wants that forever. People change. By the way this change has absolutely nothing to do with her declining looks and fertility. No way Jose.

      [–][deleted] 67 points68 points  (42 children)

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      This is why prostitution should be legal. It literally levels the playing field for men and women. At least some ugly dude who didn't win the genetic diceroll can still have a chance without countless years of confidence building and weightlifting. Just let the motherfucker make capital and get some top grade pussy, and go on with his life.

      It's easy to reframe TRP theory to be manipulative but NONE of it compares to the hypergamous sexual and dating strategy that women employ to get what they want from men. TRP doesn't even fucking come close. It can challenge or defeat their strategy with enough work, but nothing is as widespread and easy as female sexual strategy. These women are fucking shooting three-pointers while guys are still learning to dribble. Goddamn.

      [–]aresta[S] 68 points69 points  (36 children)

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      There are a lot of countries where prostitution is legal. It doesn't change the dynamic at all. Men want desire not just the physical release of an orgasm. Men that have wives, don't want "duty sex" men want women to want to have sex with them. A prostitute having sex with you is nothing more than "duty sex." Sure you can say you know what a vagina felt like with a condom... but it does nothing for your situation. You get your orgasm and you are back to being undesirable.

      [–][deleted] 26 points27 points  (15 children)

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      You have a good point. Still, it's better than nothing. A dude who is getting sex from extremely hot women on a regular basis is going to view women in day to day life differently. Ask anyone who takes sex vacations in places like Germany, where a session with a girl is a mere 50 euros. I dunno about everyone here, but I couldn't give a shit if a girl desires me or not after I've just had sexual satisfaction. Getting it regularly solves a lot of problems. Then again, I subscribe to the MGTOW-lite lifestyle.

      [–]Dvelli -1 points0 points  (14 children)

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      A dude who is getting sex from extremely hot women on a regular basis is going to view women in day to day life differently.

      He isn't getting it, he's paying for it. Having sex with a cheap hooker (50 euroes is cheap in the sex business) is pretty clinical; you bust your nut and you get out. More expensive girls really put in the effort to treat you like an alpha, even if you aren't. You have to understand these women are doing a job; they derive very little pleasure from it.

      [–]HahahahaWaitWhat 6 points7 points  (1 child)

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      I've had countless experiences with the 50 euro girls in Amsterdam. Almost all of them were fun as hell, and not at all clinical or mechanical. I can only recall one occasion that felt more like business than pleasure, and while suboptimal, it was still better than a below-average one night stand.

      [–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (10 children)

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      You're arguing semantics more than anything else. Getting, buying, obtaining, having, whatever. He's having sex; that's my point. Incels and TFL guys, even if they truly want female validation, can still gain a hell of a lot by having accessible sex with beautiful women.

      [–]Dvelli -4 points-3 points  (9 children)

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      It's not semantics at all my friend. There is a distinct difference between having sex with a hooker who costs 50 euros an having sex with a girl you picked up at a bar. My point being, unless you spend quality money on quality hookers, you are merely paying for an experience which rarely lasts longer then 30 mins (most 50 euro hookers will specify this sort of time limit).

      Getting a girl to have sex with you in inherently different to paying for it. If you can't appreciate this, then I have no interest continuing this discussion.

      [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (8 children)

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      No, it's semantics because you were arguing against my verb choice rather than my point. When you buy something, you are still getting it. The word "getting" doesn't imply lack of purchase. The two words can overlap.

      If you can't appreciate and understand the English language, then I have no interest in continuing this discussion.

      [–]BluepillProfessor 0 points1 point  (7 children)

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      Let's borrow from a certain former President and ask what exactly is the meaning of the word "getting it."

      If "getting it" means you bust a nut with duty sex then you are correct. If "getting it" means you have an encounter based on actual mutual sexual desire then you are wrong.

      You can relieve the physical issues with a prostitute or with fapping. You can only relieve the emotional and mental issues by attracting a girl and making her WANT to fuck you.

      This is not semantics. This is reality.

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children)

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      If you pay for an item, you are getting that item. If you pay for sex, you are getting sex.

      Here's a link that might help you stop hamstering: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/get

      [–]Sleep-less 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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      I think he's arguing that when most people "get" sex, a large factor in their enjoyment of the experience is the mutual attraction. Making a girl WANT you.

      This would be lacking in most encounters with a prostitute, and as a result, may not quench these people's true desires.

      Apologies for any mistakes, I'm extremely tired.

      Edit: an example.

      Imagine I see all these people making ice cream together, they're working hard, they're enjoying themselves and at the end of all their hard work and their discipline, they are enjoying a nice bowl of ice cream.

      I try and make ice cream but no one will partner up with me, and I can't make ice cream on my own, it just doesn't feel as fun as other people seem to be having.

      So I say fuck it. I head to the nearest store, grab a bucket of ice cream and BAM. I have my ice cream and I barely had to work for it. All these chumps started from scratch, worked hard, and had to LEARN to make ice cream! Suckers.

      But my ice cream doesn't seem to taste as nice as theirs, they're really enjoying theirs...

      [–]BluepillProfessor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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      Not a chance! My hamster runs on steroids and Ritalin.

      Again, you are paying for SEX. What you want is EAGER, WILLING SEX FROM A GIRL WHO VALIDATES YOU BY WANTING YOUR COCK. You don't get that from a prostitute.

      [–]vaker 8 points9 points  (0 children)

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      He isn't getting it, he's paying for it.

      Unless you've hit the genetic lottery, you're always paying for it. With your time in the gym, your investment in clothes, your attention to her. Might as well cut to the chase.

      [–]thredditsowaway 22 points23 points  (2 children)

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      This point is so fucking important. When men complain about not getting laid, about being rejected, about the nice guy/jerk paradigm, they're not complaining about blue balls... they're really saying "I wish I was the kind of guy that girls want to have sex with." That's far more important than the sex itself, that desire is the real motivator.

      [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

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      Yeah, Actually Getting Fucking Laid really changes a permavirgin's view on things. I think it's a good first step to progress. Take women and pussy off that damn pedestal. You are essentially appeasing the incessant signals of your brain.

      "The mind makes a terrific servant, but a terrible master."

      [–]southernmost 16 points17 points  (2 children)

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      It's A LOT easier to have abundance mentality and deploy dread game when you're only 100 Euros away from guaranteed pussy.

      [–]robesta 8 points9 points  (1 child)

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      I agree. Real live pussy is better than jerking off and it reminds women that just offering sex is not enough keep a man's attention.

      [–]southernmost 15 points16 points  (0 children)

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      It also gives us a baseline cash to ass transaction cost. Who's going to waste 200 bucks buying some entitled princess dinner with no guarantee of sex when you could get doubled up by a pair of Slavic Barbies for that same money?

      A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down.

      [–]1veggie_girl 11 points12 points  (10 children)

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      men want women to want to have sex with them

      Imagine playing a an online game and investing hours into raising your skills and then just mopping the floor with your opponents. It gives you a feeling of superiority in that realm. Then compare that to someone who goes out and just buys a cheat/hack for the game and does the same thing. The person knows he's paying to win, and because of that it doesn't stroke his ego. But then there are other people who are just naturally talented and always win regardless of time/money invested, they just enjoy it and usually don't develop the same emotional attachment.

      If petty sexual conquests of women is what is stroking your ego, you don't have very high priorities in life. Pussy ain't shit.

      [–]subcover 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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      I agree pussy ain't shit. Because I have access to it.

      When I hadn't yet experienced it a few times, it was a big deal.

      It's important for man to get control of the pussy situation adequately, then he can go on to other things, and indeed pussy should not have power over a man.

      [–]Lj27 6 points7 points  (2 children)

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      If petty sexual conquests of women is what is stroking your ego, you don't have very high priorities in life. Pussy ain't shit.

      I don't think emasculating a man for his priorities is a good answer- but I do get your point. What is a good priority then? Buying a fast car? Nice house? Traveling? I don't think any of these things are unique to men. Validation from the opposite sex and sexual conquest are kind of embedded in our genetic makeup whether we want to buy into it or not

      [–]1veggie_girl 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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      I'll defer to this which is currently posted on trp front page http://i.imgur.com/LFOaXLn.png

      [–]chainlinks 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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      Agreed.

      These days my personal validation comes from whether or not I am acquiring the resources to be a good provider for my family in the future.

      ..but man, there's still nothing like slaying some new strange. To quote Marty from True Detective "it just seems to smooth all the other shit out."

      [–]valesauce 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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      Veggie girl different people have different things they want to achieve in life, you should respect that. Some of us wanna deadlift 2.5x our body weight, others want to make millions, and some want to cum on as many females as possible. I could tell you everything you do in life has no point but that's my opinion, it's your life your rules.

      [–]1veggie_girl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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      Some people want to collect chewed bubblegum, it doesn't mean I have to agree that it's a good way to live your life.

      [–]manwhy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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      Some people lose. Some people win. Some people "cheat" to win. The only difference is between winning and losing.

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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      Thank you for this amazing response. The online game analogy is fucking brilliant, because a lot of them DID start out being so time and skill dependent, and now practically all of them are extremely easy or pay-to-win moneysinks, haha.

      Sex isn't that much different from online gaming in terms of process. You put in a certain level of work for a certain level pleasure (and they have done studies on this). When you make pleasure accessible to everyone rather than an elite group, the psychological value of said pleasure goes down a little, but the result is an overall happier and more robust society.

      If sex was more acceptable and open-ended to everyone involved, maybe some of the mind-games would be taken out of the equation, and women riding the cock carousel wouldn't be such a big deal to most guys because, hey, we've all enjoyed a healthy sex life!

      A man can dream. And they say we don't want equality!

      [–]manwhy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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      There are winners, and there are losers. Some of the winners "cheated", but it doesn't matter--they're still winners.

      [–]1aguy01 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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      It depends on the country. Brazil is renowned for how good the prostitutes are at making men feel desired. Patrice O'Neal talks about it. He took a trip to Brazil, then came back and dumped his GF because hookers made him feel more wanted than his own GF. And pricewise those hookers were $30 for a whole evening, including dinner.

      [–]Nerd_Destroyer 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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      I disagree. First of all, I was in Amsterdam and I was told that the men are nowhere near as desperate as they are in, say Egypt where there are no women or america where there's effectively no women for a portion of the male population. The women complained that the guys don't approach them as much, same with Norway. In fact women approached me way more there. You can fuck a 9 (with make up) for $70 any day of the week in the red light district.

      Second of all, I personally like duty sex. I'm really into women submitting/rape fetish and it turns me on to know they're not in the mood. Conversely i dont like doing all the work while they lay there as I feel like I'm kinda her pleasure bitch. But that's just me

      [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (1 child)

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      It can become legal. But it will always be massively shamed by society.

      Everything that removes female power from sex is hugely shamed and taboo. Porn, hookers, male sex toys, being with third world women.

      Think about why dildos are sexual freedom and fleshlights are creepy. Anyone who openly devalues pussy to that of a dick becomes a pariah.

      [–]subcover 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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      Who gives a shit. Go visit a hooker in another town. Chances are, nobody you know will find out.

      [–]1exit_sandman 4 points5 points  (2 children)

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      This is why prostitution should be legal. It literally levels the playing field for men and women.

      No it doesn't, we already had this discussion here. Guys (like me) who are coming from countries where prostitution is legal unanimously said that it doesn't change a bit. Okay, it may serve as a release valve for people who would otherwise have a total breakdown, but all in all, gender dynamics aren't changed a bit.

      [–]mushioov 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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      Well at least it solves some problems as you said so it should be kept legal / legalized. Problem?

      [–]Espada18 11 points12 points  (4 children)

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      After 4 years of travelling, I've started to notice that women with that sort of mentality are really popular within western cultures. Its a completely different over in the middle east; I've even witnessed middle eastern women develop this sort of mentality after moving to the west and it is extremely cancerous; does anyone want to fill me in with the cause of this mentality?

      [–]LineOfCoke 8 points9 points  (3 children)

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      this is what happens when you dont throw rocks at whores until they die.

      [–]csmass 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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      Sadly, yes. There is a biological reason and a very strong one that we should follow, but feminism prevents that. Women and men can't be equal biologically. Equal in work? Sure. Equal in obtaining education? Of course! Why couldn't or better yet, why wouldn't we want women to be educated? The issue is with mating. You control the sex, you control the men and ultimately society. The people that put forth feminism don't care about equality or progress. They have a hidden agenda to control the world ultimately, and it is plain as day.

      [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

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      Some post:

      Yeah, it's either great looks or great chemistry. Great chemistry might lead to dating down the road though.

      Why would I date something I already had for no effort? It's like the theater giving me a free pass and then trying to charge me for a ticket as I'm leaving.

      [–]Endorsed Contributor2comment 20 points21 points  (5 children)

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      Hugh Grant, Elizabeth Hurley, Divine Brown scandal is a really good example of men seeking casual sex really not caring about trading down for the encounter. He could have had anybody back in those days. But it didn't matter, because he was just looking to get off.

      [–]TannhauserOverture 4 points5 points  (4 children)

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      Wayne Rooney fucked a granny, didn't he?

      [–]RedDeadRepentance 11 points12 points  (3 children)

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      Didn't the Governator have a bastard kid with an ugly maid as well?

      [–]TannhauserOverture 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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      [–]tallwheel 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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      I seem to recall there was some famous politician guy. His name was "Bill" or something. He had some high position in government, can't remember what position. Anyway, one time he had this not-so-attractive young bitch named Monica suck him off in his office. And I was all like, "Man. He could do way better than her!"

      [–]1KyfhoMyoba 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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      In Bill's position it would have been problematic to meet and fuck someone else as willing and eager and drama free as Monica.

      [–]alreadyredschool 11 points12 points  (0 children)

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      and my friends drool over

      preselection, always relevant

      [–]the_low_s 8 points9 points  (0 children)

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      This is just... WOW! The answers the woman gave... Just wow... I remember a few weeks ago, my friend (a semi like beta) talked to a girl and wanted to hook up with her. He came back with a drink spiled all over his face and i asked him what went wrong and he said.. I quote: "well she asked me if looks are important for me and i told her yes, if i dont find you attractive i would not talk to you, then she said "oh your one of those assholes" and threw her drink in my face". And now you read those kind of answers that come from woman. Just wow, but then again, im long enough in this subreddit, so those kind of things should not suprise me anymore, but they still do.

      [–]EvilNando 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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      well this confirms that im an ugly mofo, will keep lifting til my abs can make up for my ugly face

      [–]JudgeRedPill 20 points21 points  (42 children)

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      All so true. This is why I lift, I'm well groomed, well dressed, make sure to know how to work a room, and have my finances in order. You just have to be firing on all cylinders at all times to attain happiness. Red pill 101. Turns out that having a great body and a nice face goes a long way. Plus I love being able to lay some solid fucking pipe when I need to.

      Only problem is that I'm 5'10", but I still do really well with the ladies so it's all good.

      [–]Lionstrong 25 points26 points  (1 child)

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      I'm 5 feet. I'm sure you could imagine what dating was like for me. I'm married now to a 6ft tall woman.

      [–]IamAwaken 12 points13 points  (1 child)

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      That firing on all cylinders should be said more often. Really when it takes effect is when everything is improving or going right.

      [–]JudgeRedPill 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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      Women love seeing a man using all his horsepower. Knowing our full potential is what makes them fall in love with us.

      [–]monsieurhire2 13 points14 points  (28 children)

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      Lol, you're 5'10. The horror! It's 2 inches away from 6 feet! It's so fucking arbitrary. I mean, I thank god I'm 6 foot 1 or 2 inches, but I really don't get how they magically know the 5'11.999 guys and give them shit versus the 6'0.00000001 guys.

      [–]muffcheese 24 points25 points  (15 children)

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      Bro i'm 5'9, and its considered short. Srs no joke

      [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (3 children)

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      I'm 5 11. My 6 4 coworker thought that was below average.

      My theory is that actual small people are invisible and just excluded from comparison.

      [–]manwhy 7 points8 points  (2 children)

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      It's the 80/20 rule again. 80th percentile is ~6'2". Men at or above that height might very well determine that 50th percentile men are below average.

      [–]vidi_veni_spensi 4 points5 points  (1 child)

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      In Holland? Because 80th percentile in US is 6'.

      [–]manwhy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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      You're right. I looked it up before I posted, but the info must have been faulty.

      [–]Diarrhea_Van_Frank 5 points6 points  (3 children)

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      I'm 5'8. One of my plates recently told me "When I met you my first thought was that you were short." "You're 5'5, dummy. I didn't hear you complaining when you were naked." -grin-

      Height makes a difference, but if you can make up for it in charisma you're golden. Obviously as a short guy you've got an obstacle and some girls just aren't gonna go for it regardless, but I just don't let it bother me since I can't change it anyway.

      [–]bossbang 6 points7 points  (1 child)

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      I am 5' 5". First rule of being short: don't give a shit.

      [–]muffcheese 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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      To be fair, I probably would not have spent so much time in the gym if I wasn't short. It seems most bodybuilders in my gym are 5'5" to 5'11", so I'm not alone in my thinking.

      [–]ADDvanced 4 points5 points  (2 children)

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      No it isn't. I'm a product designer that has to deal with ergonomics and measurements of men/women on a daily basis. 5'9" is statistically average in America, you are not short, or tall. You are literally right in the middle.

      [–]1critter_about_towne 5 points6 points  (1 child)

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      He knows that. He's saying he's considered short... as in, average isn't good enough.

      [–]Devinity 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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      People only really pay attention to the tall people in groups, so they consider those people average height.

      [–]salami_inferno 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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      Yeah the average height they use includes all male, including the older generations that are noticeably shorter than the younger generations.

      [–]zephyrprime 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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      Yeah and old people actually do lose height because of spinal disc compression and wearing away of joints.

      [–]ADDvanced -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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      That is simply not true. The standard measurements we use for ergonomic data were mainly collected in the 50s and 60s by Henry Dreyfus, outlined in his book, "the measure of man and woman". It is a bit outdated now, but not the height, mainly that people have poor diets now and are a lot fatter.

      [–]Fzed600 12 points13 points  (3 children)

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      Most women have no concept of height, distance, or size. Just lie about being an inch or two taller.

      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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      Women actually do have worse spatial reasoning skills in general. This may be one of those hunter vs. Gatherer differences.

      [–]monsieurhire2 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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      Lying is always a good strategy. : - )

      [–]1whatsazipper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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      They really don't. Most women consider me taller than I actually am based on a realistic measure. I've started to inflate the actual number because women (and people in general) go with what they think versus what something actually is.

      [–]GreatWalker 11 points12 points  (1 child)

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      They don't.

      Girls can't mentally measure for shit. I'm 5'7 and tell girls shorter than me that I'm 5'9 (when they ask) and they have no fucking clue. It's the same reason why girls think that an 8 inch dick is average - because all their boyfriends said their's was.

      [–]mrninja1097 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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      Not trying to brag but you're so right, I had a girl say my dick was a foot long or more and I just laughed in her face. I'm on the larger end of the spectrum but nowhere near that.

      What really bothers me is when girls try and shame guys for being average but either can't take a decently large penis of start to wince when you put in a second finger.

      [–]bluemyselfearly19 3 points4 points  (3 children)

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      I'm 5'10 myself, so I don't despair. I exercise regularly and have good posture, so I seem a bit taller at times too. I might be at a disadvantage if I were in somewhere like the Netherlands. Most of the people who I've met with the tightest game have been shorter guys who are 5'6-5'7. It also helped that one of them did wrestling and competive MMA for sometime.

      Eisenhower was 5'10, and I don't think that it affected his success.

      [–]monsieurhire2 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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      Of course you can overcome being shorter than 6 feet, but you will have to endure extra shit-testing that 6 foot plus men don't have to endure (unless they are freakishly tall).

      [–]1critter_about_towne 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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      It's true, being statistically below average in the long bones does lead to extra shit tests. Or maybe not extra ones, but just specifically-targeted ones.

      Therein lies the advantage...

      Once you know how to deal with those specific kinds of shit tests, you've got a major part of your challenge pre-defeated. And in my experience women can become intrigued with guys who are supposed to be low on the pecking order (due to our cultural perception of height) but don't 'know their place' and instead act like they are the best thing since Robert Downey Jr.

      [–]doomred 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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      Lose 2 more inches and be the next Napoleon.

      [–]1redpillbanana 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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      It actually makes a huge difference on dating sites where people can exclude people from their search results based on these criteria. That's where the 6'0.00000001 guys make the cut - 6ft is a nice round number with which to filter a search. It's the same with women who are 39 years and 11 months old vs. 40 years and 1 month.

      [–]ben0wn4g3 3 points4 points  (3 children)

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      I swear, height is my only 'issue' and I'm 5'10" AND A HALF! So put me a pair of shoes on with a big heal like boots and I'm a solid 6' , I'm also quite a big guy overall, like big build , in good shape but STILL apparently being average height if not a bit over I can still tell if I was I dunno.. 4 inches taller I would clean the house. Height is hugely selected for it's crazy and women want taller than average. I'm starting to think you can't break into the 9-10 zone unless you're over a certain height, thats why I'm an 8 ;). (I don't mean you can't fuck a 9-10 women I mean you can't be considered a 9-10 man)

      [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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      Being 6'6" is an instant conversation starter in a bar. It probably got me at least two phone numbers a night anytime I went out

      [–]zephyrprime 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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      If you're 5'10.5" and you're not succeeding, height is only a very minor issue for you. Stop making excuses and figure out your real problem.

      [–]ben0wn4g3 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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      Who said I had a problem? I just said if I was 4 inches taller I could clean house. Chill.

      [–]neveragoodtime 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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      So if we left evolution up to the women, we'd all be 8 ft tall monsters by now. Fortunately, us short guys just tightened up our game and kept on scoring.

      [–]1critter_about_towne 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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      Well it's not entirely that simple... there are actually physical advantages to being shorter (and generally a little bit stockier) that show up in some sports and certainly show up under 'caveman conditions.'

      [–]vidi_veni_spensi 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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      Fuck that noise, I use lifts with thick-heeled shoes and I become 6'-6'1''; did wonders for me, don't care about "deceiving".

      [–]greypickup 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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      What happens when you take your shoes off? Suddenly becoming a few inches shorter would seemingly look worse than never have been wearing the lifts to begin with.

      [–]Ozymandias30 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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      They say that they only hook up with 10's and then end up in bed with a lesser guy that pushes their buttons. " I wouldn't usually go with a guy like you" blah blah.

      [–]bh3244 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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      you are better off not listening to anything women say about dating/attraction.

      none of it. its all garbage.

      [–]MattBoBat 4 points5 points  (2 children)

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      You can't blame women for acting like women.

      If reading those comments doesn't motivate you to make yourself as close to a 10 physically as you can, then I don't know what will. A lot of times a guy can jump from being like a 6 or 7 to an 8 or 9 with minimal efforts.

      [–]neveragoodtime 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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      Yes, but these women are acting like shallow men.

      [–]Mengs87 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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      It's the red pill, dude. They keep saying "oh just be yourself" when what they really want is someone NOT like you (i.e. assuming you're a 6)

      [–]1PaulRivers10 15 points16 points  (16 children)

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      Being alpha means having the best genes.

      (rolls eyes) Being alpha is about either social status or a drive to be successful. It has little or nothing to do with genes.

      Being attractive has something to do with genes. Being alpha is not very gene related.

      I've only ever hooked up with guys that I would consider to be a 10. Like the ones that look like movie stars, and my friends drool over, and i would never in a million years be good enough for

      Here's the thing about that - to refer to a phrase, have you ever noticed that women never give blowjobs in their stories?.

      Woman are going to tell you that they sleep with whatever guy is the most socially acceptable for them to hook up with.

      They're not going to say "I hook up with whoever's next to me when I'm drunk and decide it's time to go home".

      They're not going to say "I hook up with the guy who's been gaming me all night".

      They're not going to say "I hook up with the guy who ignores my telling him I'm not interested in him repeatedly" (Well this one happened to me)

      They're not going to say "I hook up with the guy who I think my friends would want to sleep with, and that's all I care about".

      The most socially acceptable answer for a girl to give is to say she hooks up with "good looking" guys.

      Let's look at what you quoted.

      I've only ever hooked up with guys that I would consider to be a 10.

      Humblebragging - "I can get a 10, and duh, that's who I hook up with to have sex with because I'm attractive and can make it happen!

      Like the ones that look like movie stars

      She wants to hook up with guys that she feels all the other girls want because the other girls want them.

      and my friends drool over

      She wants to hook up with guys that she feels all the other girls want because the other girls want them.

      and i would never in a million years be good enough for

      This is part of the humblebragging. See, she's "totally" getting 10's when she's hooking up, the fact that none of her boyfriends are 10's is, uh, just because she's not good enough for them. Yeah. Let her faux humility (it's far harder for her to lie about the attractiveness of her boyfriends to her friends without being called on it or looking deceptive) convince you that the guys she's hooking up with are really 10's, and not 6's that she wishes were 10's.

      Asking a fish how to fish didn't work before and it hasn't magically started working now. Women say "looks" because it's the most socially acceptable response. They pointedly leave out the things that matter more to them than looks do. (Not saying looks are irrelevant, but they aren't #1)

      [–]aresta[S] 8 points9 points  (15 children)

      sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

      Being alpha is about either social status or a drive to be successful. It has little or nothing to do with genes.

      Dead wrong. Alpha has always been about best genes. The whole dichotomy exists because alpha men spread their seed, as opposed to beta men who raise the alpha's children. Evolutionary psychology is completely based on that.

      Woman are going to tell you that they sleep with whatever guy is the most socially acceptable for them to hook up with.

      Saying looks are all that matters is damaging to social reputation it makes them appear shallow, the best thing would be to say personality.

      She wants to hook up with guys that she feels all the other girls want because the other girls want them.

      Yeah because they look good. Look at Channing Tatum and other popular male icons they are attractive. Look at the criminal model guy, he was attractive.

      Acting alpha comes from a position of excess. The guys that are confident with women generally are the ones that naturally get positive responses from women and also naturally look good.

      [–]1PaulRivers10 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

      Dead wrong. Alpha has always been about best genes. The whole dichotomy exists because alpha men spread their seed, as opposed to beta men who raise the alpha's children. Evolutionary psychology is completely based on that.

      Sure it is. If you don't shower, don't have any money, and dress in rags, but have good genes, women will be all over you because you're alpha, right? Because it's all about genes! (riiiiiiiiight)

      In human societies, genes are not top on the list, because they're not the most important thing to being successful. Not even close. That's why we have the family unit - because passing the parents thought patterns, ideas, and way of thinking along to their children became far more important at some point to human beings being successful than genes did.

      Alpha is a term referring to the leader of a group, or being successful, depending on your definition and situation. Genes have very little to do with that in modern society, particularly compared to behavior.

      Saying looks are all that matters is damaging to social reputation it makes them appear shallow, the best thing would be to say personality.

      Don't know if you've noticed, but that's not true. Looks is perfectly fine for a "quick fling". Women have been raised now to be paranoid about commitment, personality is about commitment.

      Yeah because they look good. Look at Channing Tatum and other popular male icons they are attractive. Look at the criminal model guy, he was attractive.

      There are a million guys out there who look similar to Channing Tatum. It's his social status that means he's considered incredible hot while other guys who look like him get "meh" from women.

      Acting alpha comes from a position of excess. The guys that are confident with women generally are the ones that naturally get positive responses from women and also naturally look good.

      They're considered good looking because they have social success. Whoever is socially successful becomes the new standard for what "looks good".

      Ex - Steven Tyler - http://cdn.business2community.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/steven-tyler.jpg

      Those 70's rock guys were all just ugly as fuck. Yet, they were getting laid all the time, girls were bringing them food, money, etc. Why? Social status. Looks for women are practically defined as "what looks like high social status?". As soon as someone comes along and achieves social status, what's "good looking" is redefined to meet what they look like.

      [–]Just_some_throw_away 2 points3 points  (11 children)

      sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

      Alpha has always been about best genes. The whole dichotomy exists because alpha men spread their seed, as opposed to beta men who raise the alpha's children.

      Really? I'm new here and I'm still not quite getting this one and there seems to be quite a bit of disagreement on it... What I got from the introductory reading was that Alpha means not being the guy who raises other Mens children. Its means using the male beneficial sexual strategy. Be that spinning plates or finding a sexually exclusive and disciplined woman for a LTR.

      If im wrong please explain how.

      [–]VegasHostTre 2 points3 points  (3 children)

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      The alpha male to animals in a jungle is about good genes. Alpha male to humans is simply about your ability to dictate and hold frame.

      [–]Lightfiend 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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      "Good genes" is so misleading. A gene is only "good" insofar as it is adaptable for a given environment and is thereby spread to the next generation.

      For example, if randomly women only became attracted to red haired people, then only genes associated with red hair would be adaptable in such a circumstance.

      Evolution doesn't care if a gene was adaptable thousands and thousands of years ago. That only explains how the gene got here, not how it will perform in the future. It only matters if a gene is adaptable today.

      [–]aresta[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children)

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      Okay so I'll explain alpha and beta get thrown around a lot. Now in Evo Psych it's purely based on genetics when we are talking caveman times.

      Alpha men were men that had sex with a lot of women, beta men were men that were the more nurturing/catering side. Now that's not to say you are either a beta or an alpha, but in general those are complimentary traits.

      An alpha is often desired by a lot of women so him committing to one woman is unlikely. A beta male however could give full devotion to the woman. So the ideal way for a woman to both get the good genes of the alpha, while getting a consistent provider would be to cuckold the beta with the alpha.

      Now in reality and modern times, genes don't mean everything. Clothes/status all blur the lines. In general when we talk about alpha males here we refer to men that are high value. In a relationship, a man does need to display alpha and beta traits.

      Check out the married man sex life forums, he explains relationship game perfectly.

      [–]subcover 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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      Friend, you too can act alpha and I don't even know what you look like.

      Just lose the beta cues.

      It works for me. I walk into a room and women notice. I am under 5'6" and overweight. I used to be 5'6" but as one gets older one shrinks a bit. Yes I am not a young man. I also don't know what to do with that attention other than enjoy it, because I am married with kids and have no intention of cheating.

      We can't run the experiment of seeing how I would do if I were 6 feet tall. We can try different profiles on Tinder or FB and see what women there are reacting to, but they don't react to presence there. Maybe you can build a bit of presence there with an artfully written description, but it's not the same.

      We can run the experiment of seeing how I do when I get all dressed up. It doesn't matter much. My wife says that's because I don't have a good shape so clothes don't look good on me -- I believe that is true. So I am really using only "presence" or attitude.

      I do think expensive shoes can be useful. And they're comfortable. I hate wearing clothes that are complicated or uncomfortable.

      [–]Lightfiend 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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      She wants to hook up with guys that she feels all the other girls want because the other girls want them.

      Yeah because they look good. Look at Channing Tatum and other popular male icons they are attractive. Look at the criminal model guy, he was attractive.

      Not always, it could also be social proof, or a type of "bandwagon effect."

      [–]kinggluejar 10 points11 points  (3 children)

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      This post is great but you had to fuck it up with your commentary(which actually started pretty good, I laughed out loud at the google fiber bit).

      This is why TRP tells you to avoid sluts, women that have casual sex, bang guys way above their league. And when they settle down, they settle down with a guy much uglier than the guys she used to bang. And this kills her respect and attraction to him.

      This is where you lost me. Redpill doesn't tell you to do anything and you shouldn't do something just because you're told to. Redpill just shows you the world for what it is. If you can take anything away from redpill, it's that there is nothing wrong with sluts but only an idiot or a chump with no self respect would commit to one.

      [–]aresta[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

      sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

      This is where you lost me. Redpill doesn't tell you to do anything and you shouldn't do something just because you're told to. Redpill just shows you the world for what it is. If you can take anything away from redpill, it's that there is nothing wrong with sluts but only an idiot or a chump with no self respect would commit to one.

      Well saying something is idiotic, and telling someone not to do it are practically the same thing dude.

      [–]VarsitySlutTeamCpt 10 points11 points  (11 children)

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      Holy Moly, these shallow ass bitches lol

      [–]aresta[S] 52 points53 points  (3 children)

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      Let's keep it 100 here.

      If you could have any girl you wanted, you wouldn't choose the chubby girl either. We are all shallow, however it's mainly women that really get to exercise this selectivity in dating.

      [–]VarsitySlutTeamCpt 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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      Nah I'm with you bruh, I'm shallow too but to some people, lets not try to act like ya'll aint.

      Edit: and imagine if someone asked me this question and I answered I only fuck 10s? The outrage haha

      [–]aresta[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

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      No outrage, no one would believe you lol. However on askwomen no one doubts for a second these girls can't fuck a 10.

      [–]LineOfCoke 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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      what it is is the societal pretense that women are not shallow. so when you discover they really are its like getting doused with cold water. Men are openly shallow, theres no surprise moment when a man behaves in a shallow way. Theres no misconception.

      [–]insane_psycho 16 points17 points  (1 child)

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      Men are extremely shallow too. The difference is that we are honest with ourselves and don't try to lie and bullshit about it.

      [–]EducatedCavemen 14 points15 points  (0 children)

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      Shit woman say:

      "You are just not my type" or "I don't want to ruin our friendship" Translates to "Muthafucka you ugly!"

      [–]TogiBear 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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      Shallow is just an adjective sensitive people use to take the blame off themselves and onto another person, so they can play the victim card for sympathy points instead of facing reality.

      If they don't find you attractive, then find someone who does. If nobody finds you attractive, fucking do something about it.

      You can also take the feminist approach and tell all your grill friends on social media, "IM BIG AND IM PROUD."

      [–]bossbang 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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      No, shallow is an adjective used to describe a characteristic of a person. In and of itself it's just provides context for the subject.

      It also doesn't apply to just another individual, most people are shallow and delude themselves that they are not.

      If you use other people's shallow attitude as an excuse to bow out of the game, you have a problem.

      However, if you refuse to acknowledge the truth about the way some people are, you also have a problem.

      Don't be ignorant about what it is: shallow is a word, and words are tools used to describe the world around us. Understand it, accept it, respond.

      I'm all for not using it as an excuse, but condemning the word for macho bravado is stupid. Be aware of your surroundings and you're better equipped to deal with them.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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      [deleted]

        [–]bossbang 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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        Just because something is true and you admit it, doesn't change it's nature.

        If I ran someone over and admitted it, yes I'm being honest but I still killed someone.

        Honesty doesn't override the characteristics of what you're being honest about.

        No, it should come as no surprise that any human wants attractives mates for sexual activities. It's a "well duh!" statement in the extreme.

        I think the issue that makes men angry is that when men admit this, we are shallow "assholes" but when women admit it "you go girl!" Double standard. Also, women are the ones who can actually be selective about these things whereas most guys can't even if they'd like to.

        I agree that naturally good looking guys live life on easy mode.

        [–]DEVi4TION 3 points4 points  (1 child)

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        this is a dumb thread and everyone knew this since fuckin high school. nothing ground breaking here.

        mental masturbation.

        [–]Mengs87 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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        Exactly. Would a girl say "Oh I just want a dreamy 3. Yeah, short pudgy with lots of acne please" Come on.

        [–]1critter_about_towne 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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        User /u/o0OIO0o laying down the truth about human mating instincts (the simple version, of course, but certainly central to the realistic discussion of sexual strategy).

        I just looked at his account live and he's been downvoted for speaking true things in a simple, respectful manner. This... is why we can't have nice things.

        *Edit to fix user name link.

        [–]bertstare10 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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        i guess the question is would you rather be the one who is perceived as hook up material or the one who is perceived as the guy who's going to date her after she's done all that hooking up?

        haha. modern feminism has completely destroyed any chance I'll ever get married.

        [–]csmass 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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        I'll take neither unless I am super horny,.and then it's a ONS. Although, I don't have a yearning for herpes....

        [–]SpinalArt 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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        True but I've seen out of shape guys with a lot of game pickup girls. It might take longer and ONS aren't falling out of the sky like they for handsome guy but if you have good game then that sets you apart from A LOT of guys.

        [–]LineOfCoke 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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        the real problem here is that this mentality doesnt go away when they get married.

        [–]housecat1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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        Honestly this is a load of bollocks I know plenty of average looking guys who have had casual sex with girls on the same level as them.

        [–]valesauce -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

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        It's only natural to one night stand someone you find physically attractive. I wouldn't want a 5 for short term either. I wouldn't resent my wife if she was moderately attractive compared to a 9\10 slut, I would appreciate her for what she was: a non slut who supports her man in raising a family. Cultivate a sense of gratitude, that's how you win at life. Appreciate the sluts who will put out and commit nasty sex acts that you would never ask of a woman you respected, and appreciate the 18 year old 6-7 you bagged to bear your children.

        [–]Lightfiend 2 points3 points  (13 children)

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        Being alpha means having the best genes.

        If this is the case, then why does TRP exist in the first place?

        [–]LineOfCoke 1 point2 points  (2 children)

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        because you can fake enough of it to get your dick wet.

        [–]Lightfiend 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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        Fake being alpha? That sounds pretty beta.

        Is it so hard to just admit that some people learn how to be more confident, dominant, and attractive - and it's not just something that is prewritten in our genes? I'm pretty sure that's what we are all here for to begin with.

        [–]LineOfCoke 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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        well I guess i could concede that there is a difference between the sort of alpha that is genetic and natural, and then the Social Alpha which is the alpha within the context of human civilization, and a given society. Its true that its not exactly the same thing. in nature being alpha is more about size and the propensity for violence and sex. In the context of civilization being alpha certainly implies a more intellectual skill set that could be learned.

        I am at my core a beta. I'm too compassionate, and I avoid confrontation and lack ambition. The best I can do is fight my natural inclinations. But that doesn't change what I am in an objective sense.

        [–]16 Endorsed Contributornicethingyoucanthave -1 points0 points  (9 children)

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        I'm not sure what you're trying to ask here.

        Maybe a short primer on evolution will clear things up. In every population, there is variation. Traits and behaviors vary, but so do preferences - meaning that in a species that practices sexual selection, some individuals will prefer behavior A and some will prefer behavior B.

        If it turns out that behavior A confers selective advantage over behavior B, then a sexual preference for a mate that exhibits behavior A (that is, finding "A" attractive) also confers selective advantage.

        As a result, the underlying reason why you have the instincts you have, when it comes to sexual attraction, is not culture (though certainly, cultures undergo natural selection too - a great example being that monotheistic religions have out-competed polytheistic ones), it's not a random thing - it's that among your ancestors, those with similar instincts (that is, attracted to the same things) left more and healthier offspring.

        So, if women prefer behavior A over behavior B, we call A "being alpha"

        And women have that instinctive preference because of evolution - because the behavior confers some real advantage. To put that another way, it's "the best genes."

        TRP exists because we want to (1) correctly identify those traits and behaviors and (2) cultivate them, or accentuate them, or hell, just advertise them.

        [–]Lightfiend 1 point2 points  (8 children)

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        TRP exists because we want to (1) correctly identify those traits and behaviors and (2) cultivate them, or accentuate them, or hell, just advertise them.

        Yes, ie - being alpha isn't just about having "good genes."

        [–]enticingasthatmaybe 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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        Being alpha is about triggering female instincts to let her animal mind know you have the best genes.

        It has always been about "the genes".

        Dominance = strength = safety for her and her offspring

        [–]1whatsazipper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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        You can have 'the genes' and get nowhere with them if they aren't expressed in a phenotype.

        That is, plenty of men can have the propensity for 'alpha' behavior but they don't exhibit any because they've been living a life beating them into beta behavior.

        Selection doesn't occur at the level of genes. It occurs at phenotypes and behavior. The introduction of a highly neuroplastic brain and transmission of information beyond the lifecycle of reproduction alters the game entirely.

        For example, most men have the genes to become substantially more physically attractive than they currently are. They can develop their body and mind through the rigors of fitness, training, sport, and competition. Yet, most don't.

        [–]16 Endorsed Contributornicethingyoucanthave 2 points3 points  (2 children)

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        being alpha isn't just about having "good genes."

        Let me offer you an analogy: imagine that men are cars and that women are people shopping for cars.

        You own a dealership and you want to increase sales. Someone tells you that the most sought-after cars are those will low miles. The second most attractive feature is good gas mileage.

        Surveying your lot, you have signs on cars that read, "giant rims!" and "6-disk CD changer!"

        But armed with this information about what customers actually want, you decide to change the signs. If a car has low miles, you obviously put that on the sign. But some of the older cars have 100k miles on them - for those, you advertise a different trait: "great gas mileage!"

        Being alpha is about having good genes.

        Game is about advertising.

        [–]Lightfiend 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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        So TRP isn't about becoming more alpha, it's just about appearing more alpha?

        You don't think learned behavior matters at all in what makes someone actually "alpha" or not?

        The way I see it, someone can have really great genes and be a 10/10, but if they don't know how to lead, or have fun and make her laugh, or have any kind of social skills, they are going to get out-performed by guys who may only be 7/10 or 8/10, but actually have alpha behaviors.

        Genes are certainly important, but I think saying "alpha" is only genes is a gross over-simplification. And if we really believed that, I don't think most people would be here trying to learn how to be more alpha.

        Also, the whole idea of "good genes" changes depending on the environment. Maybe in tribal times it was optimal to be physically strong, but in today's times intelligence and social skills are just as important.

        [–]1whatsazipper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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        This is the topic where TRP goes off the rails. The 'genes' argument doesn't make sense as posited and really doesn't survive scrutiny.

        Humans are adaptive and responsive, from muscle tissue, behavior, creativity, problem solving, and skill acquisition. A lot depends on how we direct ourselves, and what results that lead to. Hardly a selection at the level of genes.

        If it were selection due to genes, then women would have some method of scoping out genes. They don't - they have to observe layers away from that; additionally, if they did, more men would have greater success, because many have the requisite genes but have not themselves fluorished.

        [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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        [deleted]

          [–]1whatsazipper 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          What are the required genes for being 'truly alpha'?

          [–]neveragoodtime 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          Now here's what ends up happening these women that now sleep with these 10s, will view their husbands/boyfriends as never good enough.

          Excellent insight. These girls get used to having a taste of what they can't have, of course they're not satisfied with what they can have.

          I don't believe alpha is all about genes, it's a mentality and set of behaviors that telegraphs to the female your higher value. Women learned to use these cues over thousands of years, when they probably were more closely tied to genes. But now we have more control over our behavior and can short circuit her evolution. Of course good genes help.

          [–]SillyAmerican 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          Been on a disgusting hot streak lately. Went out with a girl i met off tinder and she didnt let me bang boards. FUCKING AWESOME! Its refreshing to get a break from the slewies. we hung out again and there was some heavy petting but still no sex. FUCKING AWESOME! She seems like a cool, smart girl, and not a slut. In my opinion, the best way for a girl to land a guy is to NOT have sex with him right away.