top 200 commentsshow all 233

[–]DrakeSaint 260 points261 points  (48 children)

Let this be an example for all newcomers willing to understand frame. How to maintain frame 101.

[–]seattleron[S] 90 points91 points  (28 children)

Thanks bro. Glad I can contribute. I see these new guys and cringe sometimes, but I realize that was me not too long ago. Nothing better than helping a beta door mat realize he's done nothing wrong in life other than be a considerate human being to members of the opposite sex who he is trying to bed.

[–]DrakeSaint 54 points55 points  (1 child)

The golden part in your contribution is exactly how regardless of that woman's emotional state you stood firm in your decision to make her think about how she fucked up in her own house, away from your company.

The ultimate test was enduring the drama through all phases with the same stance from beginning to end, and I believe you passed it with honors.

[–]seattleron[S] 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Thanks man. It felt so MF'ing good.

[–]blazingcopper 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That statement from her mentioning the words "pregnant" needs to be setting off alarms in your head. That is a titanic red flag bro.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)


    [–]strppngynglad 8 points9 points  (11 children)

    What do you do when they don't listen? Suppose she didn't leave and obey.

    [–]19 Endorsed Contributordrrrrrr 7 points8 points  (1 child)

    Start putting her shit outside, if she starts to go crazy, don't call the police, call one of your friends. I have very rarely had a girl who didn't listen even after I started to open the door and tell her she's leaving right now in an "angry-calm" type of way.

    If shit gets violent, just remember, call a male friend or female friend you trust - not cops. As a 6'2'' guy if I try to escort a chick out forcefully and no one was there to witness it, if she has a little tiny bruising on her wrists, my ass in in jail.

    [–]NikolaTeslaMGTOW 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I know you are right. But reading things like this is extremely depressing, take about rape culture, it is a rape culture, for men. A giant brute man beast is restrained by something half his weight and 1/10th his strength, because if the woman gets a bruise the beast will be slain. What a world we live in. And I am not insulting you, its just funny how absurd the world we live in is.

    [–][deleted]  (8 children)


      [–]Apathie2 11 points12 points  (6 children)

      Nah man I've seen huge amounts of yelling and screaming and an absolute refusal to leave until you listen. As if everybody couldn't already hear her. Honestly I have no idea in this situation

      [–]Goldeny 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      I have been through this where she don't want to leave until you talk with her. Can't be physical. I think this happen when you don't hold frame before and so she is not scared to do this. It is already too late ! In this case you have no choice but to comply just to make her leave and then punish her by not see her again for a long time... And start from the beginning again, holding frame this time !

      [–]bleh321 9 points10 points  (0 children)

      That's when you know you're dealing with a crazy.

      I've been in this scenario once where I broke up with my girl at my home (NEVER BREAK UP AT YOUR HOUSE) and calling the police didnt' work.

      Long story short, I actually had to play her with manipulation to get her out of the house. Basically I turned the tables to make her think that I wanted to work things out saying and actioning a lot of betafying things. Only then did she leave the house. Once that occurred I disappeared in a flash going full ghost on her.

      Lesson: dont put your dick in crazy

      [–]Donald_Fuck 56 points57 points  (2 children)

      Holding frame is immersing them in your reality. It is underrated and the biggest sticking point I've improved in my game.

      [–]seattleron[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

      Yes. I made sure to mention her behavior and how I was basically punishing her for it. It seems to have worked perfectly.

      [–]smile_e_face 9 points10 points  (0 children)

      It's not even limited to just game. Holding frame is, as far as I can tell, the key to any kind of social power whatsoever. Over the past few months, I've been amazed at just how far you can get with a firm resolve and a refusal to accept other people's versions of reality.

      [–]Summertime_Dimes 63 points64 points  (23 children)

      Nice post, OP. I like everything you did, but would offer a slightly different perspective on the final act of your story wherein the contrite woman realizes the error of her ways and returns to apologize. Let me preface by saying you held frame immaculately. Well done. But did you hold frame too much? You probably know about the concept of win-win rather than win-lose, but for the new guys this seems like a perfect example which could have gone another way. YMMV.

      Opinions will differ on this one, but I read a post a while back (re:win-win...sorry no link) where one should positively reinforce a woman submitting to your frame. Essentially, the entire story would read the same except when she came back teary eyed and sorry, you demonstrated approval for her coming to her senses. A kiss on the cheek and a slap on the ass, no big deal babe - totally chill - nothing gets to you because your an alpha... or so the premise goes anyway.

      Some chicks need stone cold, unflinching discipline which is what you demonstrated in your story. Kudos. Some might respond to a very slight amount of tenderness and understanding, as positive reinforcement if (read: when) she submits to your frame, backs down, and apologizes. Unwinding the hamster is a good thing. The end result is you have conditioned her to back down, let her know that you don't/won't hold a grude, maybe get a sweet blowj out of the deal. If you are holding a grudge, you care - if you care, then you don't not give a fuck. Not describing your situation, OP. Just engaging in reductivism for the sake of completeness of this reply, to bring it on home.

      OP, I trust you did what was necessary for your particular situation. That said, how would she have reacted the other way? more shit? or sweet blowj? or some third option?

      [–]seattleron[S] 49 points50 points  (15 children)

      Good points brother.

      She would have probably been nice and sweet, but the problem is she would have forgot about it in 20 minutes. I did it because I was tired of these outburts every so often (not constantly tho, but enough to have used up my patience). I have done what you said a couple of other times, and found her attitude to be good for the next hour or so, but then like I said it's like it's totally like it didn't exist.

      I just wanted to set a precedent here with this one. Next time she comes over I will be cordial and let her know it's over and I don't care (if she brings it up), but I really just wanted to make an example that I am 100% over this kind of shit and will not tolerate it any longer. We'll see how it goes next time.

      [–]Summertime_Dimes 17 points18 points  (1 child)

      I know that exact type, bro. Like I said, its clear from your post that you know what's up - pick the appropriate act for the given scenario.

      100% let her bring it up. Good call, bro.

      then hit her with "Oh yea...I forgot all about that. No big deal. I don't allow crazy in my home so you are cool to come hang out if you can keep it in check. shitty grin." or some variant.

      [–]intelcorei5 5 points6 points  (2 children)

      You're right in insisting on your initial frame and not letting her apology affect that.

      Punish quickly, reward slowly. 12 commandments. You can thank her later for being contrite.

      [–]Yoda7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Is that like the 16 commandments?

      [–]Theopaulson 1 point2 points  (7 children)

      Hold frame and then throw in a subtle dread when she continues to be out of line. Damn fine show

      [–][deleted]  (6 children)


        [–]RedPillScare 2 points3 points  (3 children)

        Google "dread game" and drink from the Internet firehose of information. It's the art of letting her realize that you have options, and she is fungible.

        [–]Theopaulson 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        Maintaining frame: pretty much told her- this is not acceptable. Leave until you can handle yourself.

        Subtle dread: I may not let you back in if you continue acting this way. Leave until I feel like hanging out again.

        It is subtle to a girl but not to a thinking person. haha

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)


          [–]wazzym 10 points11 points  (3 children)

          This reminds me of an episode of south park where nannys come and try to correct cartmans behaviour and making him submissive lol.

          [–]Summertime_Dimes 3 points4 points  (2 children)

          The strategy can be effective among humans of any gender. Given the context of OP's post, I narrowed it.

          That the episode with the dog whisperer or the one with the creepy ass english nannies? or the same episode? No TV bro, been a while since I caught a rerun.

          [–]wazzym 4 points5 points  (1 child)

          Yes it's the episode with the dog whisperer because the nannays fail and cartman destroys them so they end up iin the mental hospital.

          [–]NikolaTeslaMGTOW 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          This sounds a lot like my childhood, but with some nuns and no dog whisperer, they never fixed me, and here I am, a red pill man.

          EDIT: holy shit this ep is so funny from red pill perspective, at the start he is just like red pill guy. Women are like "stay on the timeout" stool aka sleep on the couch. NOPE. AHAHAHAHAHA

          Oh man this is great.

          EDIT2 : HOYLSHIT, eric goes on a monologue about how the nanny never had kids cuz no one wanted her and how her ovaries and uterus are useless, AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA such red pill, much wow

          [–]cheesymold 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Shit I said the same- should have read your post first

          [–]NikolaTeslaMGTOW 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          You are being nice, because you still allow her to be fucked by you.

          Think Alpha, Be Alpha. TABA

          Yeah I just coined a new term, oh wait we already have FITUMI Fake it til you make it, but that sounds too japanese.

          [–]TRPete 28 points29 points  (15 children)

          Good work! Just watch out for the 'accidental' preganancy on this one, though....

          [–]seattleron[S] 23 points24 points  (14 children)

          Haha, one time she was drunk and sent me a "I think I might be pregnant" text. I didn't respond. She apologized profusely for it the next day, and said she was just drunk and being emotional.

          [–]bluedrygrass 62 points63 points  (6 children)

          The more i read about her behaviour the less i think you should consider her for ltr.

          [–]seattleron[S] 28 points29 points  (5 children)

          I'm not any longer, up until that point I was, though.

          [–]Strangeclouds420 25 points26 points  (4 children)

          And this is why I ride the fuck out of my plates before I give the GF title. The long wait is my shit test to make sure she's capable. Throughout the extended time period I get to observe the different aspects of her behavior and decisions. If a chick wants to be with me she's going to have to have been exemplary for 6-12months, depending on a combination hotness and personality. Most wont make it but that's the way it should be.

          [–]seattleron[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

          100% correct. So glad I held off.

          [–]Aroooooo 4 points5 points  (2 children)

          It doesn't bother you guys if the plate(s) you're considering for LTR are off banging other guys?

          I've no problem keeping plates as plates for as long as I wish. But when a girl is attractive enough for me to consider her as LTR material, I don't think I can keep her as a plate for long. The thought of her freely fucking whomever eats me, if I have interest in the girl beyond the sex.

          Of course, the paradox is that even in a LTR she's free to do whatever she wants. I'm not even sure if this is a question, or just ramblings from me.

          [–]Strangeclouds420 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          A good woman is naturally inclined to bang one man at a time, if that man has and maintains sufficient value. I'm not talking a 5-10yr wait. If she can't wait 6-12 months before gettin different dick then I'd rather be single.

          [–]ziggitypumziggitypim 7 points8 points  (1 child)

          Wow this girl is fucking crazy, dude

          [–]rockymountainoysters 6 points7 points  (3 children)

          Yeah that's not a red flag at all.

          Maybe a flashing red strobe light, a deafening klaxon, and a British voice yelling "Run away! Run awaaay!", but not a red flag.

          You wanna reassure us all about what protection you're using?

          [–]seattleron[S] 12 points13 points  (2 children)

          The one where I don't do anything without a condom, and I pull out.

          [–]Casanova-Quinn 70 points71 points  (23 children)

          "Blah, blah, babbety blah asshole blah."

          Say Nothing, still checking email on phone.

          (She starts crying and lays back down with me.)

          LOL I'm not new here, but it's still funny to me how women will completely change their attitude in a matter of seconds if you hold your frame. It's like there's a light switch in their heads.

          [–]seattleron[S] 69 points70 points  (5 children)

          It's crazy how that works. When she came to the bed and started crying, I was a little freaked out at first because it was a complete 180. I didn't show it, but I was really shocked at how it worked like a fucking DIY video on YouTube.

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)


            [–]seattleron[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

            I did not want to reward the tears. I wanted to go semi nuclear to make a point that ended up being well taken.

            [–]ioncehadsexinapool 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            I was really shocked at how it worked like a fucking DIY video on YouTube.

            This happened to me today and i still can't fucking believe it. I don't even know how to feel about it

            [–][deleted] 39 points40 points  (7 children)

            Holding frame is essentially just calling someone's bluff.

            You're an asshole, blah, blah, never having sex with you again

            So you respond with a simple "ok" or "whatever." And just like that, she has lost all leverage. She went all-in on a bluff and lost. Realizing she made a huge error in judgement, she attempts to get back to baseline (where you were before the bluff), by crawling back and begging for forgiveness.

            [–]seattleron[S] 10 points11 points  (6 children)

            Exactly. I just kept checking my emails, because I was not doing anything wrong in the first place.

            [–][deleted] 51 points52 points  (3 children)

            Yup. One thing that most guys will miss when they are learning about holding frame, is creating consequences for shit tests/frame tests (like you have done). If you don't nip that shit in the bud, they will constantly test you, because they know they can get away with it, even if you consistently pass. By telling her to leave, you are essentially reversing her shit test. She now has to behave herself to get back to "baseline" with you. Then once she gets back to baseline, she will be less likely to test you, because she already knows there will be serious consequences.

            This is "dealing with a child 101" here folks

            [–]jd_coud9 1 point2 points  (2 children)

            What if they were married and giving her the boot wasn't an option. What sort of options would he have then?

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            I'm not sure there are many great options, unfortunately. In my opinion, once married, all a man can do is make empty threats and bluff.

            [–]NikolaTeslaMGTOW 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            If you want info about marriage red pill there is a lot out there. The advice is a bit different but overall the same, you can use dread and other tactics but there is too much information to post. So basically search TRP for it, there is a lot of discussion on it. I'm not saying to be a dick like "lol google", I mean there are really good lengthy discussions about this that you need to go read because single posts won't begin to cover 1% of it. GL.

            [–]1independentmale 8 points9 points  (1 child)

            I was not doing anything wrong in the first place.

            This is key. Women just love to shame us, to make us think we did something wrong. It is systemic in relationships, especially marriages. The man is always "in trouble" for something or another.

            I reject it completely. I haven't been "in trouble" since I was a boy and I'll be damned if I'm going to let someone manipulate and control me like that. It pisses my LTR off, which I find terribly amusing. You know when a woman is just losing her shit and you can't help but let out a hearty chuckle? Good times.

            [–]netgrey 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Damn thanks for this, you just clicked something in my head for relationship frame. Who the fuck is she to treat me like a child.

            [–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 19 points20 points  (3 children)

            If you don't supplicate to her frame she'll supplicate to yours (if not immediately, eventually)

            [–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (2 children)

            Or she'll walk.

            Underlying the notion of holding frame is that if a woman cannot deal with living in your world then you'll let her go. If you can make that internal decision then it's less stressful because you've already decided ahead of time how this will play out.

            Basically the biggest challenge to holding frame is the fear that it will end the relationship. And the truth is, sometimes it does. There absolutely are women who will not accept that you won't be moved by their emotions. You have to be OK with them going and not coming back. Once your head is in that place everything else sort of falls into line.

            [–]1independentmale 7 points8 points  (1 child)

            "Aww hell, baby, you're really gonna make me go out and find some younger, hotter pussy to replace you? Rough life I'm leading here."

            There absolutely are women who will not accept that you won't be moved by their emotions. You have to be OK with them going and not coming back.

            No sane man wants those drama queens, anyway. On to the next one.

            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Yeah but be careful because not every shit test comes from a lunatic that you're just dying to get rid of. To maintain frame when it really matters you have to be willing to lose a relationship you actually value.

            It is easy to hold frame with a woman you've kinda been looking for an exit anyway. Harder when you really want to hold on to her but refuse to do so on her terms.

            [–][deleted]  (3 children)


              [–]DMAredditer 11 points12 points  (2 children)

              Best thing is, they don't realise it's an act.

              [–]NikolaTeslaMGTOW 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              I don't know if its "an act", it may be real. Basically the reptile/mammalian brain is saying one thing, but the conscious overlay of human brain is saying another. We have errors in perception and consciousness all the time, this may be one of those so they aren't acting, they are just blind to it like how men get stupid around hot women.

              The common example is, you tell your brain to move a finger. You are actually telling ALL your fingers on that hand to move, then a split second later the human part of the brain says "hey don't move those 4 digits" and sends a counter response.

              So basically woman says "prove you are a man worthy of fucking me" with her act, then you can either say you are worth or not (by action), then her reptile brain says "fuck him" or "don't fuck him" based on if you are alpha or beta and that neutralizes the human part of the brain.

              I'm not saying women don't know it, or they can't see it after the fact, or that some women are sociopath/manipulators even more, but I really think its mostly just a result of layered areas of the brain, basically like an undertow in the ocean, sure the water looks still, but its a torrent that will rip you out to sea and drown you.

              [–][deleted]  (2 children)


                [–]HushtheHipster 14 points15 points  (2 children)

                I don't know if you know anything about Behavior Analysis but your technique is spot on. If she has this emotional tirades and lashes out verbal assaults at you, you can't reward her behavior by giving her what she is having the tirade for in the first place. In BA, it's called extinction. On extinction, the subject will have a burst of the targeted behavior and it will get more intense and more frequent but if you keep up with it, (as you commendably did) the behavior will begin to fall in frequency and eventually taper off. The attention is her reward and sometime in her past reinforcement history she was rewarded by having these tantrums and learned that it is a way to get attention. This stuff is usually used to train animals but it still is good to know when dealing with difficult people.

                You're actually using a technique based in behavior science. Remember: Behavior is lawful.

                [–]VoyPerdiendo1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                Probably the best comment on here.

                [–]1tombreck2 38 points39 points  (21 children)

                Are you sure that you want to have a LTR with this girl?

                I enjoy reading stories like this that show what happens when a man maintains frame when under pressure. To be Alpha is to maintain frame.

                [–]seattleron[S] 47 points48 points  (1 child)

                Nope, not sure at all, that's why it didn't happen. And these outbursts are why. She is usually really good about keeping her shit, but every once in a while this happens and it reminds me that I am better off having FWB.

                [–]Stalwart_Shield 11 points12 points  (18 children)

                I was on the bubble whether or not I should make her a LTR

                Being that he used past tense there I'm going to assume he's reconsidered.

                [–]seattleron[S] 37 points38 points  (17 children)

                Yeah, she is cool most of the time, but these kinds of things remind me not to get too close. She's a great cook, wants to screw 4x a day, is smart, and her hamster is usually only out for a light jog, but then sometimes it goes all Ben Johnson and the example above happens.

                [–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 15 points16 points  (15 children)

                All women have a hamster, she sounds about as good as they get

                [–]seattleron[S] 11 points12 points  (12 children)

                Can you elaborate? Just not sure of your context here.

                [–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 48 points49 points  (2 children)

                All women do crazy shit you won't find one who won't. It's a matter of how crazy they are not if they're crazy. I honestly believe every woman will play pregnancy mind games if it will get them commitment. Its as much a female habit as it is a red flag. I don't think women without red flags exist they're all nuts to varying manipulative degrees. She also has a lot of redeeming features. IMO you won't find much better than a high sex drive smart chick that only occasionally goes fully hormonal on you. That's an opinion not a recommendation to ltr her that's your call.

                [–]ColdEiric 9 points10 points  (0 children)

                It's a matter of how crazy they are not if they're crazy. I honestly believe every woman will play pregnancy mind games if it will get them commitment. Its as much a female habit as it is a red flag. I don't think women without red flags exist they're all nuts to varying manipulative degrees.

                Just as we men are functions for war, stability and retirement, the women are functions for babies. And everything we do, will in some way relate to our primary functions.

                So it isn't surprising that a woman will do anything and everything for the sake of getting commitment, or that a man will get rid of those he isn't getting assistance from.

                [–]seattleron[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                Very true.

                [–]CRUSHPUSSY_MARRYAMAN 16 points17 points  (6 children)

                I'm no expert but I think this is one of the most fundamental misunderstandings of TRP. One of the harping points for TRP detractors is the existence of AWALT. Some new guys read about AWALT and take it to mean that all women are the same level of crazy, have the same size hamster, and can all be counted on to act the same way. This is not true. When we say AWALT, what we mean is that all women have the capacity to act like that, and more importantly, all women will have at least some inclination to act like that. It's a spectrum. To put it in basic terms, imagine a scale of 1 to 10. Some women are more level-headed and logical, and will only rate a 1 on the crazy scale. Some women are Jack Nicholson in The Shining and are full 10 on the crazy scale. Obviously a 1 and a 10 are very different people. But even the most intelligent, reasonable woman is STILL on the scale. Only the fabled Unicorn would rate a 0.

                [–]forgetful_storytellr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                I'm not saying the term bitch applies to all women, but all women have a little bitch in them.

                [–]seattleron[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

                Yeah, I get what he's saying, and he may be right. She really has a lot of good qualities.

                Forgot to mention she has a really good paying job, too.

                [–]sinfulmentos 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                I agree with what you're doing. She has good qualities but still a couple of dealbreakers, and as long as you continue frame she will either fall in line somewhere along the road and change her behavior and be commitment worthy, or get fed up and next herself for you.

                [–]Ulquiorra_Schiffer 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                I believe he's saying that all women are ridiculous and have a hamster that will go off the rails, but she sounds like she isn't as bad as most and has a good handle on it. Or something.

                [–]NolanHarlow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                What this guy said. TRP has a lot Of great advice for general demeanor and relationship management, but if you're looking to settle down you need to understand that the perfect girl does not exist.

                [–]1AlienSunrise 15 points16 points  (1 child)

                Well done. I always love when they have to say out loud " I'll really leave! Don't tempt me I'll do it!" Ok... then go. You're annoying and there's UFC on tonight.

                [–]ragerdat 6 points7 points  (1 child)

                Man its like teaching a fucking dog.

                [–]NikolaTeslaMGTOW 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Teaching a dog is easy. A dog won't claim rape and you end up jail being raped and lose half your shit.

                I saw a really cute looking chihuahua earlier today.... unrelated

                [–]1Ill_mumble_that 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                Women are incredibly simple creatures once you understand their elusive nature.

                Step 1: build attraction.
                Step 2: maintain frame.
                Step 3: repeat until you have a loyal harem that keeps coming back for more.

                To learn how to do step 1 and 2, keep reading TRP for examples like OP. This was a flawless example of maintaining frame.

                [–]TheeRyanGrey 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                women have two weapons: sex and emotional control.

                pebbles, really.

                the only way for them to win is if you open your tank and let them in to wreck it from inside. good shit my dude.

                [–]3 Endorsed ContributorSkorchZang 7 points8 points  (12 children)

                That's interesting, I'd have let her back into bed after she crumbles and apologizes, and she seems approximately sincere. To me, after the "catharsis" with tears, there's less need for holding the hard line, she needs the affection and gobbles it up. What's your thinking on that, are you getting signs that there's a distinct advantage to the way you handled it this time?

                Or it's just this particular girl/situation, you needed that extra mile of hard rock for her to crash into?

                [–]seattleron[S] 11 points12 points  (6 children)

                Yeah, it was more for this specific girl/situation. Game principles need to be applied harder to her because she can be stubborn sometimes. Plus, I have caved a couple of times in the past when she gets to that point and it obviously hasn't curtailed the outbursts completely. It was a little nuclear, but it needed done.

                [–]1xwm 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                Starts crying

                Nuclear launch detected.

                [–]manslutalt 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                I expected the zerg version :(

                [–]NikolaTeslaMGTOW 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                The sound is from sc1, the video is from sc2.


                The first game have more reverb/echo and sounds more robotic for the... adjutant.

                Speaking of beta and starcraft, Jim Raynor forgives Kerrigan for killing billions cuz feels. Gotta kill Tycus cuz he is going to kill Kerrigan. Male disposability and female victimhood at its finest.

                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                Perhaps for beginners like me a good rule of thumb would be: Hold frame for longer than you think you have to.

                You lose nothing if you hold it for longer than you need.

                [–][deleted]  (1 child)


                  [–][deleted]  (2 children)


                    [–]3 Endorsed ContributorSkorchZang 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                    I don't know about all that... Manipulating a man any way she can to commit to her is a girl's entire game, of course she's frustrated and irrational (and turned on) when it isn't working. Meanwhile from my side, it's never been the goal to get her to act more reasonable and civilized, just less bitchy, more feminine. Treating her like the child she is deep inside.

                    Shouting demands bad, submission good. So when the shouting and cursing turns to tears and desperate snuggles, we're almost home in my book. We all know you're never going to get a woman to be completely reasonable about these things no matter what you do, unless you like sullen "poor me" going through the motions unhappy woman-husks, which seems like a dubious victory to me. That's the only thing you get by fully forcing her to act reasonable. Win the standoff, lose the war.

                    Just how I see it.

                    [–]Endorsed Contributorfluviant 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                    I'm in complete agreement with you.

                    Manipulating a man any way she can to commit to her is a girl's entire game

                    And manipulation has more success when used on emotions rather than logic.

                    it's never been the goal to get her to act more reasonable and civilized, just less bitchy, more feminine.

                    Discipline in an interpersonal relationship is reciprocative with submission, not reasonability and civility. Spot on.

                    We all know you're never going to get a woman to be completely reasonable about these things no matter what you do

                    This is the most important TRP concept here. Persuade the woman with her emotions, not her logic. She responds more viscerally to her emotions.

                    Moreover on this point, you want to set a good groundwork with the woman. You do not want to have her doubt your logic/reason ever as a man. Make her feel like she should submit to you unconditionally. Do not make her feel like she should reason logically with you. Logic is not her forté, and you will have many problems in the future if you predicate your authority on her ability to logically validate every decision you make in her mind.

                    [–]BluepillProfessor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                    Athol Kay (May Peace Be Upon Him) talks about RP husbands going Alpha, getting their wife to fuck them like crazy (finally!) and then...the relationship ends in about a year because the hubby pushes it so far into IDGAF (I don't give a fuck).

                    If you want to punish her like that why not just throw her over your knee and spank her. I think you really DNGAF which is great for short term attraction. Not so much for the long game.

                    [–]vnjxk 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                    Replace sex with playing and her home with the corner, and that's how you deal with kids.

                    [–]1kick6 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                    I need to learn to hold it longer

                    No, you need to learn to never break frame.

                    [–]NikolaTeslaMGTOW 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    So what you are saying is women want a man like this


                    I'm sorry everyone.

                    [–]1TVTestPattern 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                    I like the cut of your jib young man.

                    Never compromise the basic integrity every person deserves by default.

                    I'd never tolerate a stranger walking up to me and freaking out all over me, so I certainly won't tolerate it from someone I know & want to trust.

                    Furthermore, I'm not sure I really trust someone who doesn't insist on this for themselves. If they aren't even an advocate for themselves then why should I?

                    Now... repeat this about 10,000 times with many women over years & years and you're done!

                    [–][deleted]  (1 child)


                      [–]seattleron[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      Thanks buddy. I'll take a Heiny.

                      [–]BitingInsects 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      I just realized how easily I would have caved in, and how I've caved before. She crossed the line acting like your GF, knowing damn well she talks to and probably bangs other guys. This is an eye opener - good to see all of this stuff in action to put it in perspective. It's basically like they're looking for that guy who will fail the shit tests and cave in for the LTR.

                      [–]sixtysixpixistix 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      I will not tolerate emotional outbursts for no reason.

                      Get a load of Capt. Von Trapp over here. Good job not putting up with any bullshit.

                      [–]throwbenny 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                      Reminds me of the time I was crashing at my buddy's house after a party and this drunk bitch decides to pour water on me as I'm trying to sleep. I called her a cunt and told her to fuck off. The next night we're all partying again and she shows up and instantly begins glaring at me. I matched her glare and she decided to announce to those surrounding that I had called her a cunt the night before. She then did that stupid folding-arms-checkmate shit and continued to glare. I stepped in her bubble, matched her glare again, and said "Yeah, so what." After a few seconds she apologized for pouring water on me. Granted in hindsight I should have probably treated her like a child and not flipped a tit at her, but live and learn. Not sure if that counts as holding frame or what.

                      [–][deleted]  (1 child)


                        [–]throwbenny 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Touche. Felt good though. Beta me would have crumbled

                        [–]Jammku 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                        Would it be considered holding frame to tell her to cut contact with those other dudes hitting her up? I can't stand that shit.

                        You know, something like "If you want a LTR you're going to need to get rid of those other guys emailing you." Or is this considered a beta trait?

                        [–][deleted]  (2 children)


                          [–]Jammku 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                          I've only been in LTR, so if this is going on during a LTR what would be the best course of action?

                          [–]mctoasterson 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                          This works. Three to one ratio on texts, deflecting and ignoring verbal shit tests and baiting, etc.

                          She will interpret your nonchalance as strength and whatever complaint she had in the first place will either unravel under her own second guessing or become moot.

                          [–]ProAssad 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                          Godamit i would let her in after coming back in 5min. Kudos for keeping frame.

                          [–]cascadecombo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                          I must say I found that interesting, I would have probably (if I had any interest in the girl for more than sex) let her back in after the apology and such. Would have given her shit for it and just ignored her, but still, I like what I see here.

                          [–]HistoricalStickler 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                          Now let's analyze this from the plate's point of view:

                          1) She immediately gives up all of her leverage by fucking OP.

                          2) In her mind, the act of having sex was more than just a physical act - she expected something MORE in return (respect, commitment, LTR, validation, or whatever).

                          3) OP gives her none of these things, because to him, the sexual act held no meaning beyond the physical, beyond that moment, there was no no implied or inferred quid pro quo.

                          3) Her self-esteem crashes through the floor, and she becomes desperate for OP to acknowledge the value of the "gift" she has given to him.

                          4) As it begins to dawn on her that she gave up the main thing OP wanted from her, she recognizes that she has substantially reduced leverage, so she resorts to shit tests, guilt, shaming, and finally emotional outbursts.

                          5) When OP continues to hold frame, his SMV skyrockets in her eyes. He is acting alpha. Immediately, and counter-intuitively, she is even more attracted to him than she was before.

                          So how does this play out in future encounters between OP and this plate?

                          If she learns the power and leverage that the act of sexual intercourse holds, she will want to restrict access to this power.

                          Alternatively, she may begin to view sex as a purely physical encounter, not as a means to an end.

                          Either outcome raises the plate's own SMV:

                          If she chooses to withhold sex, she becomes more valuable to some men because they want what they can't have.

                          And if she chooses the alternative, men also like women who appreciate a good romp in bed for what it is: a good romp in bed.

                          TL;DR: By holding frame, OP raised the SMV of both himself and his plate.

                          [–]Andress1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                          Just when i thought it could not get any better: "You still need to leave. I will not deal with these kind of outbursts and it's why we're not exclusive. Come back when you learn how to speak to me in a respectful manner."


                          [–][deleted]  (4 children)


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                                  [–]lesbianDREAMS 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                                  You know, us having all of this sex could get me pregnant

                                  I would have told her to get the fuck out on the spot. Probably a loss of frame but in no way would crazy tail be worth he risk. Either way, your way was more entertaining lol.

                                  [–]seattleron[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                  Either way, your way was more entertaining lol.

                                  Lol - I'm glad I finally have a cool story to contribute.

                                  [–]Stargazer34 3 points4 points  (5 children)

                                  Nicely done lad!

                                  Holding that hard frame like that got her to show and admit that she's an emotional mess and who the FUCK wants to make an LTR out of that shit. You're not mr fix it and now you don't have to be caught in that.

                                  [–]seattleron[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

                                  I kinda feel bad for her in a way. It's like I'm the first guy whose ever really lead her in that manner. It's like she's craving it so bad, and I've seen her be in shock sometimes at how I handle situations. Behind all of the emotional bullshit she's a good person, but I am not setting myself up. Hell no.

                                  [–]l0ng_time_lurker 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                  Being exposed to such behaviour makes me want to go temp-MGTOW. I have a plate that keeps pushing the idea of exclusiveness which I ignore/ don´t comment on, but I will have to next her for this. You should too.

                                  [–]40_SixandTwo 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                                  Well done on sticking to your guns and not letting her walk on you. That was heroic.

                                  [–]TheRpPhilosopher 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                  Good job on holding frame by sticking to your word man.

                                  [–]2asd1100 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                                  Interesting, usually after an apology and acknowledging what she did wrong I let her back in. I find it's quite educational. But some are beyond that or not worth the effort so I can see your point.

                                  [–]Pyrostic 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                                  This is brilliant. I had my first test the other day and posted here... I dropped the ball.

                                  [–]seattleron[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                                  I have dropped the proverbial ball so many times it's not funny.

                                  Digest the situation and come out better. It's only a mistake if you don't learn from it.

                                  [–]PersianDj 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                  This is just a weak emotionally wrecked woman.

                                  She'll be like this with every future partner .Some women just cant stay alone

                                  [–][deleted]  (2 children)


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                                      [–]vicious_armbar 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                                      "You know, us having all of this sex could get me pregnant."

                                      I would have said: "It's alright. I'll pay for half of the cost of the abortion." You have to let her know that if she gets pregnant she won't be rewarded with a relationship with you. That you expect her to get an abortion, and if she doesn't you'll have nothing to do with her ever again.

                                      [–]Burner1701 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                      Nothing to do with her ever again, except paying her child support etc.

                                      [–]lubeoil 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                                      You know, I would've let her in after she was crying and all. My thoughts would've been, ok, she's crying and is apologetic. She must've learned.

                                      From the way you did it, I guess that's not at all what I should be doing. When I say go home and come back when you learn not to talk to me like that, I guess no matter how much she cries, the punishment has been decreed and it will be carried out.

                                      Am I on to something or no?

                                      [–]gaylord__focker 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                                      "You know, us having all of this sex could get me pregnant."

                                      WTF. That right there would make me scared to death to keep even fucking her.

                                      I am curious if you still feel this girl is LTR material?

                                      [–]Jelqtil12 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                                      That's alpha as fuck. Good job standing your ground but what is frame?

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                                          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                                          Damn BP friends tell me I'm a dick, but dude you're a dick. Well done.

                                          [–]LandShark805 0 points1 point  (6 children)

                                          Unrelated to this, as a subscriber to both TRP and TBP (know thy enemy), I find that TBP brings up the more interesting RP articles. It's as if they are trying to help the Rp community by providing rage and irrationality to drive the fence sitter over to read the other side, and end up thinking, damn those bitches be crazy.

                                          [–][deleted]  (5 children)


                                            [–]LandShark805 1 point2 points  (4 children)

                                            r/TheBluePill/ They talk mostly about TRP. Seems dedicated to being upset over what's said in this sub.

                                            [–][deleted]  (3 children)


                                              [–]LandShark805 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                                              Tell them that, get back to us on how it went.

                                              [–][deleted]  (1 child)


                                                [–]LandShark805 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                                Entire point was TBP seems to identify the more interesting RP issues to read; they help without knowing it.

                                                [–][deleted]  (1 child)


                                                  [–]SpongeCroft 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                                  the pill is strong in this one. please apply water to burned area.