top 200 commentsshow all 229

[–][deleted] 200 points201 points  (87 children)

She WISHES she could feel the tingles for a nice guy - someone who takes care of her, someone who's a bit boring, but also a safe bet for the future. The exact same way I wish I could feel attracted to some ugly but lovable fattie chick who's the chillest person ever, doesn't shit test and has 0 chance of breaking up.

But ATTRACTION IS NOT NEGOTIABLE. We don't choose who we want to fuck. Women love the alpha assholes, and we love the young, prime pussy hot girls, even if they have a shitty attitude.

[–]demonon 52 points53 points  (15 children)

Attraction is not a choice.

-David Deangelo

[–]solarbang 4 points5 points  (6 children)

Amen, that's the one thing to take away from David Deangelo, if anything, that's it.

[–]__var 2 points3 points  (5 children)

What's wrong with David Deangelo?

[–]djvita 5 points6 points  (3 children)

i read in puahate that he never had any approaches he was just a keyboard jockey marketer, he compiled info from other people during the pua ebook boom but thats it. he supposedly never went out, no fuck closes nada, supposedly

who knows.

[–]MerlotMcGee 7 points8 points  (2 children)

I honestly can't speak to any of that, I don't know his real life reputation. I will say that I had zero game at the age of twenty. I was a quiet, no-dating nice guy who couldn't look pretty girls in the eye and put them on pedestals. I read his book Double your Dating, and discovered that even just putting my chin up, making eye contact, and faking some confidence, worked. I got names, numbers, dates, and a girlfriend, even though I was predictably afflicted with Oneitis. It was a start though.

I'm not into pick up artist stuff, I prefer to build my SMV and try to let it show than read palms at bars but I can say David Deangelo helped at least open my mind to a new way of thinking about male/female relationships.

[–]djvita 6 points7 points  (0 children)

i concur pirating his ebook was my gateway drug into self improvement and trp

[–]DownvotesCatposts 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Same here. David D opened the door for me. And he wasn't exactly a con-artist about it, he clearly let everyone come up and talk about their different styles during his programs. He also would constantly give credit to the other presenters for ideas, as well as having three tables full of books that he would read passages from - while carefully repeating the authors' names.

[–]solarbang 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nothing. I love his stuff. I got his books and dvds. On a side note I just got banned from r/offmychest for sticking up for trp and telling it how it os. Lmao.

[–]voicesfrom 89 points90 points  (39 children)

You can be alpha and not be a dick - it's not mutually exclusive.

"Nice" guys are called that because they're ONLY nice and have no other qualities. No charm, no confidence, no initiative, sometimes not even much individuality. Why the hell would any woman go for that?

[–]1exit_sandman 57 points58 points  (0 children)

"Nice" guys are called that because they're ONLY nice and have no other qualities.

That's the problem - the guy had other qualities, fairly positive ones to be honest, and those most women profess to desire.

No charm, no confidence, no initiative,

He just lacked these.

[–]deepsouthscoundrel 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I wish I could upvote this more than once. This, right here, is the crux of the issue: if your only redeeming attribute is "niceness" then no woman will be attracted to you.

[–]thredditsowaway 4 points5 points  (13 children)

Exactly. I bet she'd even feel different if he had a set of abs and a bit of facial hair.

[–]voicesfrom 1 point2 points  (12 children)

No doubt, but there's not much you can do about that (short of testosterone shots I guess, but those do... BAD things to you).

She probably doesn't even find him that "cute/grounded/funny/etc" - because if any of those were standout qualities, they wouldn't be slashed together/etc.

Cute guys... don't usually get girls unless you're Bieber and want to end up doing 20-to-life.

Grounded is a positive but only in terms of marriage/settling down, definitely not in terms of physical attraction.

Funny guys can get girls, but real sense of humour comes from being confident enough to push the envelope of what's politically correct and/or polite, AND enough to be self-deprecating on occasion so that it doesn't come off as just arrogance/douchey.

This guy? Didn't have it. Any of it.

[–]Metallicadpa 1 point2 points  (6 children)

No doubt, but there's not much you can do about that (short of testosterone shots I guess, but those do... BAD things to you).

Wait what? What do you mean by this?

[–]voicesfrom 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Which part?

Testosterone leads to more/leaner muscle mass and facial hair: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone#Pubertal

Testosterone does bad things to you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone#Adverse_effects

So yes, if you're taking it, I'd get advice from a couple of GPs and only do it if necessary.

[–]Metallicadpa 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Yeah but you don't need to supplement testosterone to have abs, and just because he didn't have facial hair it doesn't mean he is incapable of growing it.

[–]voicesfrom 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Oh right. No that wasn't what I meant (even if my comment does kind of look that way now that you mention it).

[–]manwhy 4 points5 points  (4 children)

No doubt, but there's not much you can do about that (short of testosterone shots I guess, but those do... BAD things to you).

There's literally no difference between the testosterone that the body produces naturally and testosterone exogenously administered through pinning. Except that when people pin they choose to have more testosterone than normal because testosterone is fucking awesome.

[–]Babeman12 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Higher sex drive, inflated confidence, decreased chance of knocking a girl up. If done responsibly it's seriously win-win.

[–]metallica11 7 points8 points  (12 children)

You know after reading the red pill I had hoped that women were attracted to good, genuinely confident men in addition to assholes. then I learned the harsh truth that women are in fact, the most attracted to men who are, in fact, real assholes. You can't have the same"tingle inducing" qualities to the same level as a true asshole will bring. There is just something about a very masculine, overly cocky guy that just really turns women on just like a youthful feminine women in her prime turns a guy on. She can be a complete idiot but as long as she has the right curves, femininity, and youthful glow, smart men will be captivated by her. likewise, a Smart, Intelligent, good girl will be captivated by a overly cocky arrogant masculine man with an IQ of 100. And there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. It is so hardwired into our survival "firmware", it's like convincing ourselves that cold water is not satisfying when we have trekked in the 110 degree sahara desert for a day without it. you just can't. You will drink that water. We really are victims of our hindbrains

[–]voicesfrom 39 points40 points  (8 children)

I don't know. I think TRP has a selection bias for not only not-confident men, but also interactions with less-than-ideal women.

Think of it this way:

Just as there would be no need for an alpha to come to TRP for advice, there would also be no need for stories about a smart, intelligent, reasonable AND hot woman, because there would be nothing in either of those situations which would be relevant to TRP.

TRP is, by definition, for guys who are not naturally alpha and their interactions with girls who have issues and/or are bitches (to put it bluntly).

And while you're absolutely right that acting like an asshole IS attractive on a very basic level, there's a difference between acting like an asshole to engender that attraction and sexual desire, and being an asshole. It's a nuanced and fine line, but it exists, and it's a disservice to confident men to say that assholes get better tail. It's not true.

Personally for myself, while I could sleep with a brainless blonde 10, I would hang myself if I was ever in a relationship with one. There is an element to sexual chemistry that isn't purely physical and confidence and intelligence in a girl is a huge turn on for me. I'd pick a confident/intelligent 8 over a ditzy bimbo 10 any day of the week.

So chin up. It's not as bad as TRP makes it seem and we're not all completely apes beholden to primal urges.

[–]MrArtfulDodger 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Really well put. People on this subreddit stress being an asshole to get girls but all you have to be is a masculine man. Girls that want you to be a full blown asshole all the time are broken.

[–]Robalypse 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Agreed. I think and have observed from other red pill sources that guys that are mainly assholes have a hard time keeping a woman around for a LTR. How many of you have a buddy that is straight alpha archetype that has never managed to keep a chick around for more than a year? I can think of a couple. Even the women they nail consistently are of the stripper or bimbo slut variety which has never floated my boat.

The magic formula, at least in my case as a married dude, means just injecting a healthy dose of cocky asshole into my personality and earning that attitude. It keeps things fun and interesting, but you can still be a good guy...just not a nice guy. I look at it as being a bit like Wolverine. Kind of a dick but you know what side he's on. I use that example as I've watched my wife drool when Wolverine is on screen, even the cartoon version where she once commented, "damn he's sexy." That was a lightbulb moment.

[–]dman8 1 point2 points  (0 children)

at least in my case as a married dude

As a married man there is a lot to take from TRP.

*Look after yourself

*Be the confident strong husband your wife wants

*Keep your life interesting. Nothing worse than moping around home all day or being a sadsack.

Do those three things and not only will it help your relationship but it will make your whole life better.

You can be nice to your wife and not lose respect. You can do housework and not lose respect. The only way your going to lose respect is if you stop respecting yourself.

[–]seddition 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I disagree that there is no need for an alpha male to come to RP. The people at the tops are there because they constantly hone their skills and read and learn. Just because you're an alpha male doesn't mean you can rest on your laurels.

[–]clear_lights 5 points6 points  (0 children)

No, he's correct... to an extent. Game has diminishing returns- it isn't something that you can keep increasing when you're near the peak IMO. Sooner or later, you're down to stop using it and settle with a LTR. I mean, even George Clooney is getting married now. Besides, there are people who are just THAT lucky-everything fell on their lap that there is no need to learn about anything at all.

I grew up with two guys (they only know each other through me) whom I'm still friends to this day. One guy I know just "got it" without needing to read about sexual strategies or psychology because that was his personality growing up. He played sports, instruments, etc. He was that token extroverted guy in class who everyone got along with and girls lusted for because he pretty much had alpha traits to begin with. I'd say his father and brother played a HUGE deal in this- his dad being a womanizer and his brother being part of a band so I'm sure they've helped him in regards to some TRP philosophies.

The other was just straight up blessed with genetics and wealth. His sister was a supermodel who was 7 years older than him. By default, he was the talk of the town. Although he wasn't as outgoing as the first dude, he exuded confidence in his own special way, mostly through trial-and-error and meeting all different kinds of people without needing to read any books or topics concerning masculine identity.

Would it have helped them had they come to this subreddit and learn? Absolutely.

But what's the point of having multiple plates when you've already found that HB10 that pretty much has all the qualities you would ever want in a woman?

tl;dr - there's no skills to hone if you're living a life similar to a celebrity, especially since thirsty women are all around you without even trying

[–]1critter_about_towne 0 points1 point  (0 children)

TRP is, by definition, for guys who are not naturally alpha and their interactions with girls who have issues and/or are bitches (to put it bluntly).

Meh, speak for yourself. And maybe a lot of people who use this sub. However, not everybody; some of us just like semi-philosophical discussion of sexual strategy and evolutionary psychology from a primarily heterosexual male perspective.

I'm not saying I mind if you assume I lack(ed) game or had to develop 'alpha' traits instead of finding them within myself and gravitating to this sub as a place for like-minded individuals; after all, you have no way of knowing who I am, and if you choose to see me as a recovering neckbeard, that's okay. It's just innacurate, and I'm a stickler for being a bit more scientific and accurate around here.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

there are certain realities that do apply, almost, universally that are worth bearing in mind.

I've literally had women chase after my penis because I could sit down with them and have a conversation about quantum physics or speak in poetic verse "on the fly". I don't mean to say that's common, but I know it happens because it has happened to me, more than once.

What i get a lot is "you're different". Now I'm not saying that is as good as being the typical good looking bad boy, it's not. I'm just saying that there isn't only a single path to being appealing to women. You're not going to be able to fully transform your character into what you're describing as an "asshole". That doesn't mean you can't differentiate yourself from the pack (which in and of itself can be attractive to women. they can even get bored of the "assholes").

I think TRP, as far as I view it, is a method for standing out. It is a way for a "nice guy" to layer on some workable strategies that sort of appeal to certain parts of what a woman is looking for. I think you can view it as a checklist. most women are attempting to do a mental checklist of your qualities before she decides (all unconsciously, or mostly unconscious) how attractive you are.

Is it fair that some guys are born with some of the most important checkboxes already ticked off? No of course it isn't but that doesn't mean you can't go down the list and fill in some of your own.

[–]Comdvr34 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Seems like every women with class dated a drunk asshole for an unusually long time. Then dumped him and married a winner.

[–]ExpendableOne 4 points5 points  (2 children)

"Nice" guys are called that because they're ONLY nice and have no other qualities

Nah, nice guys have plenty of stuff besides that going on for themselves too, even if it isn't always so apparent. They are called nice guys because they value their altruistic/considerate nature and because it differentiates them from other guys(which they may see as being destructive/unhealthy).

No charm, no confidence, no initiative

All of these could be attributed to just inexperience. They are mostly temporary "faults" that would eventually go away, or traits that would naturally develop during a relationship(especially if that guy is really devoted to making it work). It's a lot easier to get a nice guy to develop confidence than it is to get a charming, confident and assertive guy to be nice(confidence either comes from a lot of experience or it comes from a delusional sense of grandeur; neither of which really express consideration and altruism; being assertive also conflicts with being nice in the sense that it requires men to push/disrespect boundaries and putting your desires above the desires of others). Humility, fairness and altruism can result in someone being viewed as lacking confidence/initiative too.

sometimes not even much individuality

Everyone has individuality. Things that makes them who they are. Things that they love and hate. The fact that some people might be more flexible with how they express themselves or are just open to embrace more doesn't mean that they have no individuality. When you really know who you are and what you like about yourself, changing for other people isn't such a big deal.

Why the hell would any woman go for that?

Because charm, confidence and initiative really aren't the first things women should be looking for in a relationship. Companionship, attraction, support, respect, humility and flexibility are qualities they can build relationships on. The real question should really be, why would women focus all of their attention on these traits, when it isn't in their best interests to do so and when they are still expectations, or double-standards, placed on men based on traditional gender roles(guy has to be strong/assertive/confident so that the woman doesn't have to be)?

[–]voicesfrom 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Because charm, confidence and initiative really aren't the first things women should be looking for in a relationship.

I was putting together a comprehensive rebuttal but you've just gone ahead and attempted to tell all women what they should and shouldn't be attracted to... so... I'll let your argument speak for itself.

[–]awesomesalsa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wtf? Being assertive means you enforce your own boundaries. It doesnt mean violating other people's boundaries. Thats called being a dick

[–]enticingasthatmaybe 3 points4 points  (5 children)

No charm, no confidence, no initiative

Otherwise known to the bluepill community as being an asshole. I'm an asshole, you're an asshole, we're all assholes here. Embrace it.

[–]voicesfrom 12 points13 points  (4 children)

No dammit. Don't embrace it.

Pity the jealous/insecure guys who think it's "being an asshole" that actually gets girls and not, you know, a combination of biology/sociology knowledge and basic social skills, and fight against the stereotype that you have to be an arrogant douche to get girls.

They're guys too, and while I guess there's less competition the more of them that utterly fail, I personally think a lot of them, if shown the light, can turn out as decent guys.

Don't be bitter. Bitter isn't cool.

[–]enticingasthatmaybe 1 point2 points  (3 children)

You embrace it because you shouldn't care if people see you as an asshole. Live your life devoid of what other's think. That is where you find freedom.

I mean, what does it take to be a true douchebag? I'm sure many of us self proclaimed "assholes" fall far short of bumping into old ladies at the food court simply to knock her food out of her hands.

[–]voicesfrom 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That's what I meant though. Don't be an asshole just because some people think you are.

I don't care if people think I'm an asshole. At the same time, I don't think I'm an asshole and I'm not going to suddenly going to act like one because some other people think I'm one.

^ That's not embracing being an asshole because you're not.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I think only sociopaths can truly not care what others think. Something about their mirror neurons not working or some shit.

Normal people can't help but take into account what others think. The key isn't not caring, the key is caring in the appropriate framework.

[–]enticingasthatmaybe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree that one should only care about the important things, but others will think their bullshit drama is important and they will label you an asshole when you shrug off their menial bullshit.

[–]awesomesalsa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I met a guy once who literally said that confidence was the same as arrogance

[–]Asahiii 72 points73 points  (7 children)

Funny how when a dude brought up 'alphas' in an r/relationships post about TRP the whole sub lost their shit, and waxed lyrical about how disgusting and unfounded the idea of alphas even is, but when a girl brings up the idea that she's used to dating alphas on r/OKC eveyone totally understands where she's coming from.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]lemonparty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I had no idea how a healthy relationship was supposed to work

    This is the bullshit line they use on everyone (including themselves) to justify fucking their way through the bad boy lineup.

    Without fail, when it's time to transition from AF to BB you hear some variant of this stream of bullshit.

    [–][deleted]  (4 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]kagian14 5 points6 points  (3 children)

      Yeah, she wanted a guy that would make her wanna rip his clothes off. Obviously a nice guy's not what she should be looking for

      [–]boredinclass2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Im not sure if any girl would say no to that kind of sex...

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      She wants the kind of guy who would get her animal tingles going, but who just happens to be kind and thoughtful too, ie the male unicorn.

      [–]kindlebluemoon 27 points28 points  (4 children)

      Everybody is telling her to stick it out, give him a chance, etc. Horrible advice, will only end in tears for both of them (well, mostly him).

      [–]Here2lrn 30 points31 points  (0 children)

      He might get a few rounds of pity sex out of it. Probably an improvement on his sex life so far.

      [–]Redpiller456 9 points10 points  (0 children)

      And a new subscription member.

      [–]diablo_fuentes 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      To be fair if you ever tried online dating, women tend to not give men enough of a chance. Yeah 2 dates is more than enough to determine if two people are compatible, but some of these girls only give you 30-45 minutes before they come up with some BS excuse to leave.

      [–]throwaway1643 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      but some of these girls only give you 30-45 minutes before they come up with some BS excuse to leave.

      That's perfectly fine with me, saves my time ... It's ridiculously easy to setup dates on okcupid, and there'll always be plenty of other girls.

      [–]cagethepepper 30 points31 points  (6 children)

      Yeah. I know a girl who would go out on weekends and go home with a different guy, only to never see him again. Then she wouldn't shut up about not being able to find a guy. Every. Single. Time. Topic number 1 for this chick. May be worth noting she was 27 and starting to panic because all her friends were in relationships and she was back at university.

      Then she finally finds a guy. Never met him, but saw a picture. Total vanilla looking guy, very average (the girl, for the record, was also very bland, wall fast approaching). But I thought to myself "Shit, they're on equal footing, she's not that good looking either. If this dude is crazy about her, she should go for it before it's too late or before he changes his mind".

      I then overhear her talking to her friends about this guy, citing all his qualities, however: "Oh...I dunno, he's just too nice."

      There you go folks. You can't be nice, you have to be attractive.

      [–]lesbianDREAMS 13 points14 points  (3 children)

      When women say "too nice" they mean boring and not challenging

      [–]pcmaniacxx 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      I have one question. What is the middle ground for the 'not challenging' part between agreeing to everything (being that nice guy) and being rude?

      [–]dropit_reborn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      The more attractive the rest of you is, the more assholish you can be and have it rationalized as "charming."

      [–]Riusakii 6 points7 points  (1 child)

      It's not about how attractive he is, it's the fact that he is a beta. Look at what she said.

      [–]cagethepepper 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      Attractive by being more masculine.

      [–]Flaye2 30 points31 points  (1 child)

      She's probably dating nice guys because she could no longer pull in those bad boys.

      So now she is transitioning from having "ones she can't keep" to "ones she doesn't want."

      [–]lemonparty 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      and suddenly decides that the reason she's making the transition is because before she "had no idea how a healthy relationship was supposed to work" -- but now she suddenly does.

      [–]Xbitz 22 points23 points  (2 children)

      Shes getting old, the type of men that used to bang her are going for early 20s girls.

      So she has to lower her sights, rationalises it as a "choice"

      [–]1wakethfkupneo 44 points45 points  (4 children)

      "Women are completely oblivious to their own natures" - deep truth I've read on some manosphere blogs. Accept that fact and everything makes sense: hamstering, giving horrid advice to men about how to seduce women, AF/BB ... all the way down to cases like this: she really wants to give that clueless guy a chance, she comes on the internet to seek advice, she wants to believetm ... but she can't and cannot understand why.

      [–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 33 points34 points  (1 child)

      Women have no incentive to understand the nuances of human sexual dynamics. In that vein, most women succeed simply by existing. Recall that their mating strategy is to get pretty and simply wait. Top that up with a heavily-frontloaded SMV.

      Men, on the other hand, have every need of that knowledge. Men can easily fail and fall through the cracks. There are tons of men that no one wants to fuck. Men need to figure out what the problem is and how to fix it -- in this case, repairing their abysmal SMV's.

      Just the nature of the game.

      [–]tway01012 3 points4 points  (1 child)

      Upvoted. But I will say I am not down with the association of Fox Mulder to hamstering. Mulder was always right. Always. Fuckin' Scully.

      [–]TheGingerPill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I was about to bring up the X-Files... and you already hit the nail on the head. Scully is the hamster logic and Mulder observes the nature of things to form conclusions.

      [–]Rainymood_XI 16 points17 points  (3 children)

      tl;dr no tingles

      Watch how she in 30 years will 'settle' for exactly this type of dude because he has a stable (high) income and is respected in his field.

      Ugh, disgusting... that they can get away with that, GOD.

      [–]cagethepepper 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      In today's economy? Best of luck to her!

      [–]riverraider69 49 points50 points  (2 children)

      She's actually making an effort here. Maybe she is a genuinely nice person?

      My 20s was filled with dating emotionally unavailable "bad boys."

      Ah. the wall.

      [–]zephyrprime 11 points12 points  (0 children)

      Lol, yeah. I was wondering why she was even giving this guy a chance but then I read that line and realized what was happening. The wall. You have a 30's something girl who's looks are gone and cannot pull in the hot guys anymore.

      [–]lemonparty 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I had no idea how a healthy relationship was supposed to work

      and then suddenly when the wall approached, she had a revelation!

      [–]DazPatrick 56 points57 points  (47 children)

      It's funny, a woman knows she should want a nice guy, but sexually she gets wet for alphas. Like men who would only prefer good prime pussy to a chill girl that doesn't shit-test.

      [–]2 Endorsed ContributorFLFTW16 69 points70 points  (39 children)

      Imagine getting nothing but slim, cute, 18 year old supermodel virgin pussy, and then trying to date a 33 year old chubby career woman with a couple of gray hairs and N-count that takes more than one hand to count. Is your dick going to get as hard for the 33 year old when you have been accustomed to 18 year old virgins? No. No it won't.

      [–]cascadecombo 5 points6 points  (37 children)

      What 18 year old virgins are you finding? Because those rarely exist.

      [–]2 Endorsed ContributorFLFTW16 83 points84 points  (3 children)

      It's called a hypothetical.

      [–]TheVTM 9 points10 points  (2 children)

      Where is this hypothetical heaven you talk about?

      Thailand?

      [–]2 Endorsed ContributorFLFTW16 7 points8 points  (1 child)

      Btw I live in Bangkok, Thailand. (not joking)

      [–][deleted] 46 points47 points  (14 children)

      Also, someone who desires sex with a virgin has obviously never had sex with a virgin, its probably the worst sex you can experience.

      [–]cascadecombo 36 points37 points  (4 children)

      If you are going for a one nighter yeah, but if you going to LTR the girl, that means she is down to learn whatever you want to teach her basically.

      [–]Comdvr34 8 points9 points  (6 children)

      Amen, in fact the best sex is usually after the first kid, no more banging the cervix

      [–]bubbleki 24 points25 points  (4 children)

      pshhhhh. I never have that problem. Small dick FTW.

      [–]Comdvr34 12 points13 points  (3 children)

      The first step is admitting it.

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]Comdvr34 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        I said I'm not gonna look, I'm not gonna look, not looking, aw fuck it let's see, Argh Why did I look? I have terrible willpower.

        [–]Cross_of_Coronado 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        And those that do exist, exist for a reason.

        [–]PersianDj 9 points10 points  (7 children)

        Maybe in America they are rare,but its not tough finding a conservative young virgin waiting for marriage if u know where to look.

        [–]cascadecombo -1 points0 points  (5 children)

        I assume people are talking about life in america on this forum.

        [–]MojoMoley 4 points5 points  (1 child)

        Yup. Realized this the other day. That's why I'm glad I live in Germany. There's almost none of that shit that gets talked about here about women and alpha appearance present or relevant here.

        Some good advice here though. Like lifting and working to be the best man you can be.

        [–]blue_27 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Well ... there are 72 of them waiting for you in Paradise, if you do it right. No no no ... this wire goes here, and that wire goes there. No virgins for you!

        [–]CSMastermind 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        I wouldn't say rarely, plenty of girls to college as virgins at 18.

        [–]cascadecombo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Ok, let me put it in my frame of mind.

        Rarely do you find a girl who you want to sleep with who is a virgin at 18.

        [–]aazav 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        Virgins are overrated. They don't know what they are doing.

        But your point is taken.

        [–]Kakistokratic 12 points13 points  (0 children)

        Except Male alphas are expected to excel in absolutely everything, while women are apparently alphas if they just look awesome yet have the personality and agency of a stick. I mean don't get me wrong, I'm with you on the prime young pussy. It's just as I get older I'm experiencing more MGTOW tendencies. Like someone already said. We don't choose what we find attractive.

        [–]1iluminatiNYC 8 points9 points  (4 children)

        Um, those men who prefer good prime pussy to a chill girl that doesn't shit test deserves every shit test he gets. Heck, point him out, and I might make up shit tests for someone so stupid. Granted, good pussy is good pussy, but peace of mind makes it so much better. Any fool who wants good pussy that bad needs to be hooked up with the women who stay chasing alpha. They DESERVE each other.

        [–]Granny_Whisperer 2 points3 points  (3 children)

        To avoid shit tests is to give up on having sexual relations with women.

        [–]dancingwithcats 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Alphas can also be 'nice guys' though in that you don't have to be a total dick. That doesn't mean one should engage in beta behaviors either. Alpha males are not necessarily assholes unless someone deserves asshole treatment.

        [–]kanaduhisfruityeh 35 points36 points  (7 children)

        Is this story real? Or is it just fabricated to hit every single cliché?

        Seriously. Dating "emotionally unavailable bad boys" in her 20s, then meeting a nerdy nice guy guy she isn't sexually attracted to on a dating website. This stuff sounds like it was taken right out of the playbook of stereotypical female behavior 101.

        [–]RedSpar[S] 20 points21 points  (1 child)

        Well it was posted on the OKCupid subreddit. For a second I thought a RP'r wrote it as a joke but cliches are cliches for a reason. I know many women just like this.

        [–]1exit_sandman 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        This. These things look textbook-like, but it might also be confirmation bias that redpillers tend to single threads like that out and post them here.

        [–]myprimetime 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        they are cliches for a reason.

        stereotypes don't pop up out of thin air, they are based on a trend

        [–]Endless_Summer 9 points10 points  (0 children)

        Uhh, why do you think it's stereotypical behavior to begin with?

        Do you have a point? Because this is completely normal and common female behavior.

        [–]1WishIHadMyOldUsernam 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        It's obviously a wannabe scriptwriter floating his ideas for his next romcom hit. Expect to see Rachel McAdams as the OKC girl, Johnny Galecki as the "nice guy" nerd she tries to date, and Channing Tatum as the non-asshole alpha she eventually falls for. It'll be hysterical!

        [–]enticingasthatmaybe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Women who don't land in a successful LTR follow this script more than they don't. This behavior is typical, which is why it is cliche.

        [–]busior 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Well I had a cliche like that myself. Been dating a 30yr old girl who was average looking. Lots of dick sucking (said she loved it - like 3 times per date), bought me presents, paid for dinner etc., but I just couldn't feel attracted to her. Dumped her for a freeeesh 22 yr old pussey and damn was that pussy fresh and tight.

        [–]2asd1100 9 points10 points  (6 children)

        He's awesome and I really don't want to end up hurting him. I don't know what's wrong with me... you'd think after a year of online dating dealing with flakes/fades no call after sex type guys, I'd be overjoyed I finally found someone decent who has potential.

        My 20s was filled with dating emotionally unavailable "bad boys." The ones who never gave me the loving relationships I wanted, kept me on my toes by being assholes to me the entire time. Being a glutton for punishment, I'd stick around because I had no idea how a healthy relationship was supposed to work. I'm inclined to think because I'm so used to this treatment... I'm now subconsciously seeking it out and don't know how to react while dating someone who's not an asshole. I realize this deficiency in myself, and I've been working hard over the last 2 years to remedy that.

        so close to figguring it out, but captain hamster saves her from reality once again thanks to his sister :Feminist Cultural Programing

        And the girl is okay, with decent self awareness and really kind at hearth:

        So I guess I'm asking... do I let this guy go before I screw him up entirely? Do I see him again and hope excitement and feelings of lust build? Will I ever be content with someone who's just "nice?" I'd like to see him again. I just fear I'm leading him on.

        But here comes the mainstream to teach her that men aren't worthy of human decency and honesty:

        Maybe since you at least like spending time with him you can have another date or two and maybe he'll calm down and get more confident and surprise you.

        Introverts just take a little longer to come out of their shell, is all. If you give them the time they need to get comfortable with you, you might be pleasantly surprised.

        You'll probably have to initiate a lot of things. Don't take that as a sign he's not into you. Take your time. There's a lot to be said for letting sexual tension build. You'll be tearing each other's clothes off soon enough. edit: just to say that "escalation" to an alpha is "invading personal space" to a nerd. It's possible he doesn't initiate physical contact because he respects you. I have a cough friend like that.

        (never mind that that will tell him that you are actually more into him than you actually are, fuck his confusion, you need to get yours)

        That guy sounds like me throughout my 20s. Give him a chance.

        (because even a chance at a reluctant pussy is o so precious, this guy is marginally encouraging her to pursue getting raped, i.e. fucking a person you aren't into, without getting paid)

        This person kinda sounds like me, maybe I'm not quite as slow as him, but I'm similar. I suggest you give him a couple more chances if you think he's worth it. I'm just as timid when first meeting a girl, but I do become more "alpha" as time progresses. And as others have said, you'll most likely have to initiate a lot of typical first things like physical contact and more serious relationship discussions. It might seem like a lot of effort on your part, but he might be worth it! Just assume his uncomfortable behaviors imply he's head over heels for you and go from there.

        (this guy argues that you should even make the first moves on a guy you aren't into)

        You are trying for a real relationship, cutting him loose now would be a mistake. You are out of your comfort zone and that is exactly what you need because your comfort zone will never get you what you want as it can't let you grow. Maybe give him an openly "your interested" signal, this will let most of the worry disappear from him. Once that is gone, his confidence will grow and you will find what you are looking for in every way.

        (relationships are not build on liking one another, they are about lying, they sooner you start the better)

        [–]noworriescc 2 points3 points  (5 children)

        You hit the nail on the head what was bothering me the most about the responses. So many of their responses are based on the presumption that you can suddenly BECOME enamored with someone over time by just TRYING. I know their advice is bullshit because she's being expected to change, compromise, and coddle HIM because he can't be bothered to MAKE A MOVE!

        P.S. I hate this horrible dichotomy that if you're intelligent (marginally) than you're better than others and are excused for not being sensitive to others or living in your head. Girls like to be taken and if you're not smart enough to take a chance and hold a girl's hand....shit's not going to work out. These guys on't want a GIRL, they're just as bad as the "alphas" that they disparage.

        [–]2asd1100 0 points1 point  (4 children)

        not smart enough

        not man enough, biologically it is not a question of intelligence but testosterone directed impulse. Using intelligence to force yourself to behave like a man is a copping mechanism, until your confidence catches up with your behavior.

        They want her to much, they live for her, a failures is simply to great of a risk socially to take. This is what happens when male courtship is transmitted by a female sensitive environment.

        Let me make this more of a one liner: rapists are the men that don't get slapped as kids for being "fresh".

        [–]noworriescc 0 points1 point  (3 children)

        I brought up intelligence because she said it was a valuable trait to her.

        Frankly, I don't think it's a manly/womanly, smart/dumb thing insomuch as it's fear(emotion)/life (rationality) situation. This guy has tricked himself into being pralyzed by his emotions. "it'll hurt SO MUCH IF I GET REJECTED! WAAAH" Emotional. Weak.

        NOT sexy...doubleside..A woman doesn't want to have sex with a child they coddle and they don't want to mother their mate. Very unsexy.

        [–]2asd1100 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        it doesn't matter in this context.

        I don't think it's a manly/womanly,

        It actually is, women get turned on by male desire. The reverse only works indirectly by jerking off our ego which sometimes gets translated into actual action, but it's infinetly more easy to just start stroking our dick.

        A woman doesn't want to have sex with a child they coddle and they don't want to mother their mate.

        I've met a couple like that, the chick had a narcissism the size of canada, she absolutely loved the praise and the pity she god from nurturing an adult baby, needless to say, they have a 9 month old byby girl, and now she gets of on motherhood.

        [–]noworriescc 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        "I've met a couple like that, the chick had a narcissism the size of canada, she absolutely loved the praise and the pity she god from nurturing an adult baby, needless to say, they have a 9 month old byby girl, and now she gets of on motherhood."

        Well, I misspoke; I meant a healthy, mentally stable, desirable woman.

        Moreover, you do bring up a good point about women being turned on by male desire. It is true that women are turned on by the desire of the men they desire. Further, I do see women who hold a candle to an uninterested guy and it rarely gets anywhere.

        [–]2asd1100 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I do see women who hold a candle to an uninterested guy and it rarely gets anywhere.

        which is agonising and unfair for both parties, the saddest part is that despite her indifference, the guy is living the dream

        [–]SamGill 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        I feel sorry for the guy, putting up with this girl who doesn't really want to be with him and has to debate in her mind and with reddit whether to see him again................hopefully he will find a girl who KNOWS that he is the right one for him.

        and i do hope that she finds what she's looking for.

        [–]BluepillProfessor 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        She doesn't know that 'butterfly feeling' is called FEAR or at least anxiety. Am I good enough for him? Does he have other girlfriends? Does he like me? These anxieties ramp up the Hamster and increase your SMV in her eyes.

        Does he do whatever I say? Is he trying to impress me? These REDUCE the anxiety and act like a stick in the hamster wheel spokes.

        TLDR: Sexual attraction depends on angst. Create it or suffer the fate of the niiice guy.

        [–]MrOaiki 4 points5 points  (1 child)

        Just because someone is nice, doesn't mean you fall in love with the person. You people simplify situations like this, by saying she is wrong because she doesn't fall for a guy just because he is nice. And her questioning and rationalizing around this behavior, is met by comments like "short circuit in the brain".

        Do you men fall for a woman just because she is "not a butch"? Is fulfilling certain static criteria enough for you to fall in love with women? In that case life must be hard, falling in love with every second woman serving you or saying hi in the elevator.

        [–]joncho 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        You don't get it. The problem is not that he is nice but that he is boring. When she says he is too nice, it's basic powertalk and it's saying he is boring.

        [–]imathrowit 10 points11 points  (32 children)

        so is this a behavior thing or a looks thing ?

        [–]RedSpar[S] 33 points34 points  (18 children)

        Oh I'm sure it's 90% a behavior thing. The guy she is dating is meek, shy and doesn't take what he wants and it deletes all of her vaginal tingle subroutines.

        [–]PersianDj 34 points35 points  (12 children)

        This place shows way too much negligence towards looks.

        Tall ripped gorgeous guys can get away with slightly beta behaviour.Girls give them a lot more chances then they would to a normal guy.

        [–][deleted]  (4 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]bluedrygrass 1 point2 points  (2 children)

          Because they also drown in moneys.

          [–]joncho 9 points10 points  (1 child)

          Mostly status. Just rich guys get pussy but not at that level. For a women fucking a famous musician is much more attractive than some unknown rich guy.

          [–]a_nus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Expanding on your point. Observe the current booming software industry. So many rich engineers, yet they get less pussy than a broke, drug addict musician.

          I read an article a while ago about escort services booming amongst software engineers. Makes sense. Stereotypically (they're beta), they got the money but not the social skills to attract pussy.

          [–]1exit_sandman 7 points8 points  (0 children)

          Keep in mind that it's also a lot easier to be confident and assertive when the girl is tripping over herself to please you, and to develop that kind of frame the more often you experience being desired - and good-looking guys should experience that A LOT more often than average ones.

          [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (4 children)

          agreed, if you're especially handsome it doesn't even matter what comes out of your mouth. it's just like guys ignoring red flags when the girl is extremely hot.

          even on TRP posters engage in a lot of wishful thinking they can overcome their bad draw at the genetic lottery etc. with all these strategies because they can't admit to themselves that they might be powerless.

          [–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 7 points8 points  (3 children)

          Not true. Being good looking isn't immunity to rejection. It's entirely possible to fuck up even with good looks. You're given more room to slip up, but there's still a limit.

          TRP never suggests that a genetically disadvantaged man can pull 10's left and right. But they can raise their SMV, increasing the quality of the women they can pull. That's the whole point. A short, poor man with strong game, confidence and frame will do better than one without.

          [–]Granny_Whisperer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Even more than the quality TRP allows a man to increase the quantity of pussy. We shouldn't dismiss the value there is in having sex with many different women.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          not absolutely immune, you're right, but women that are riding the CC select for attractiveness and will just approach the most handsome guys on their own, no game needed on the guys' part - it's an entirely different dynamic. I don't think a genetically unfortunate guy (let's say short and weird face) can outdo aforementioned handsome guy with 0 game because women are too sensitive to good/bad genes subconsciously.

          [–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          I used to be that good-looking loser. I was born with fortunate genetics, but had seriously shit game. Most of the men you're thinking of have some level of game, they don't need nearly as much as a less-advantaged guy. Trust me on this, if you have no game you will strike out just as much as a less attractive man. As soon as I discovered the manosphere my success went through the roof.

          Good looks simply get your foot in the door. You can't close if you act like a chump.

          [–]__ROOSTER__ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Actually it gives to much emphasis to looks.

          Looks can only be controlled to a limited degree. Race and height to no degree.

          Focus not in areas of either diminishing or no returns.

          Frame has unlimited returns. UNLIMITED.

          [–]raceAround126 7 points8 points  (8 children)

          I would say both! In equal measures.

          If you are too fat or too skinny, sadly you're going to portray a few negative images. Nobody likes a negative image.

          If you look like you are built even just a little - enough to be dangerous put it that way - then that's the looks taken care of. The rest is basic, personal hygiene, teeth, etc.

          But even if you have the bod, you can still fuck it up with behavior. If you are overly nice, do shit like pulling out her chair for her, open the car door for her, then all you're going to do is arouse contempt.

          You have to make the girl work for it! She has to put the effort in, not you. Then it's simple watch for the shit tests, reward good behavior, punish bad!

          Read the sideline. Between workouts of course :)

          [–]Aughin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          The outside bears witness on what is on the inside. If you are muscular and have good posture it tells women you are interested in sports, which is a masculine drive. The posture tells them that you are proud and satisfied which tells them you can carry yourself and not let emotional distress weight you down.

          [–]sinfulmentos 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          I'd like to add on that the worse thing you can do is be a quality man (wealthy, good looking, fit, tall, funny) and then on top of that beckon to her every whim. Every girl says they want a prince charming but if you end up being prince charming for her, the only thing that will happen is her perceived SMV of herself will rise astronomically, she will think she is above you, and she will not only lose respect for you but get a massive ego as well. Maintain frame always.

          [–]1WishIHadMyOldUsernam 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          If you are overly nice, do shit like pulling out her chair for her, open the car door for her, then all you're going to do is arouse contempt.

          You can still do these things (occasionally), as long as you also take charge in other ways. Like ordering her drinks and food for her at the same date where you pulled out her chair (though honestly that's the maitre d's job). And definitely don't make a habit of doing those "nice" things, it'll just become expected behavior and yeah, she'll resent you for it.

          [–]lono12 0 points1 point  (3 children)

          Still bluepill. Looks isn't just how much you can bench or how ripped you are. It's your face and your height and your race. Looks is mostly things you can't control

          [–]raceAround126 0 points1 point  (2 children)

          Are you telling me some guy clocking up 125kg has any choice but to blue pill?

          [–]lono12 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          yes. lol there's a lot of power lifter betas in the gym man. Better get your head checked.

          [–]raceAround126 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Well, possibly.

          My point was, if you look like a cold McDonalds cheeseburger, then no amount of personality is going to make you anything more than a beta bucks.

          If you look alpha, as in with the decent build, clean appearance, looking more like a hot-cross bun, then there's far more liklihood of you being more alpha simply due to the effort to get there and the attention you just get.

          Not that I want to turn this into an "I'm more alpha than you" pissing contest... nor do I like using the word alpha as most of the "alphas" I've met down the gym act like 5 year olds...

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          It's more about height than weight.

          [–]Devinity 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I expect he's probably not tall, handsome, and jacked. Even if he is tall, he probably is scrawny and has a bad posture, like a lot of nerdy guys.

          [–]1kick6 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          She flat out says he's "cute." One could surmise that it is, therefore, a behavioral thing.

          [–]lono12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Cute as opposed to handsome or hot. Cute means he looks like her safe best friend. Nothing sexy about cute.

          [–]Riusakii 2 points3 points  (3 children)

          Just read a few of the comments in the post and almost everyone is asking her to settle for mediocrity instead of going for what she really wants.

          Bad advice all around. If she truly feels no tingle she needs to let him go. If she chooses to stay it will only be a matter of time before she strays towards an alpha and cheats on the beta.

          Today's lesson:

          Never settle.

          [–]Granny_Whisperer 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Woman approaching the wall has to either settle or acquire a large number of cats.

          [–]CauisCosades 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Not only that, they are wasting each other's time.

          [–]big_girls_blouse 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          If I could up vote this a hundred times I would... Worst sex ever.

          [–]scarygood536 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          My Okc girl tingles all the time. I'm a nice guy, but I tell her what I want and what I'm going to do to her. She loves it and tells me she loves it. She begs for me. She always wants to jump my bones. She sits there and complains about her bestfriend trying to get with her. According to her is really nice but is a "ken doll" to her. He has no penis. She spends her days thinking about me not all the other dudes she's annoyed with. Why? She's looking for a relationship and she knows I just want to use her. She is so crazy about me. Girl don't want a asshole but they don't want a push over. They want a man that knows what he wants and goes and gets it. Assertive, confident, and sticks to the beat of his own drum. To me that's what being alpha is about, not good guy or bad guy. Although, you can't be afraid to say it like it is even it means hurting a feeling

          [–]Dark-Ulfberht 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          You know what I thought the whole time here: God help that poor fuck she's "dating."

          All these people are telling her to deign to allow him to "prove himself" to her. I hope he bangs and bolts.

          I have such a different background than people on this sub. I always assumed that, after 20-21 or so, virtually all men knew the deal. I assumed they were all just out to get theirs, and did it to varying degrees of success.

          So, I must admit, when TRP came about, I dismissed it as being a somewhat more bitter version of pick-up artistry. It did not really occur to me that vast swathes of the male populace didn't have the whole farce figured out, even if they couldn't say so in polite company.

          It might have had to do with the fact that I spent all my 20s in the military. One learns very rapidly, upon seeing a guy come home from a deployment to a cheating spouse who has filed for divorce, maxxed credit cards in his name, and has filed restraining orders against him. It really sucks to be a commander and having to enforce orders requiring him to live in the barracks and yield the vast majority of his paycheck even as she spends it on her boyfriend. (But you know, we fucking warned his stupid ass not to marry a stripper.)

          This shit is so common in the military that virtually all guys see the farce for what it is after a couple years in.

          But, transitioning out of the military, I found that people weren't just playing along with the farce, but actually believed it! Seeing things in this light made me realize that perhaps TRP was necessary for huge swathes of millenial hipsters who seem to think that they will gain acceptance through self-effacement.

          [–]incraved 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          Honestly if I were her I wouldn't date him either.

          There is a difference between being shy and being a complete fucking pussy.

          This is not "alpha" vs. "nice guy", this is a complete loser in social life which tells you something about him.

          [–]noworriescc 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          She's a sexually active woman...he can't even hold her hand.

          I actually think that neither of them are really into each other but feel obligate to stay together because.

          edit: letter

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

          [deleted]

            [–]Overkillengine 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Men die sooner than women on average. I think it is because they want to.

            [–]Johnny10toes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            I fucked a fat chick once. Didn't really do it for me. I didn't even get off while we were doing it.

            [–]Theopaulson 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            This rings true for my relationship with my wife. "Why is she not putting out or at least being effectionate?" Duh, I am not making her vagina tingle. Slowly started working in that and voila she changes. Nice vs asshole isn't the discussion. It's the difference between a nice soup and sandwich you could get any day and that one meal you remember forever. A soup and sandwich is nice. Sometimes even great. But mostly nice. Yaaawn. Be interesting and fuckable. Someone worth spending time with

            [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

            I can't remember the last time I treated a woman like a human being. My sex life just gets better and better.

            [–]aazav 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            She (they) like the perception of danger that comes with power.

            [–][deleted]  (3 children)

            [deleted]

              [–]HalfwySandwch 4 points5 points  (1 child)

              This is a good question to start from, read the side bar for more information.

              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

              [deleted]

                [–]zephyrprime 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                The thing is, this girl is actually more self aware than most girls. She is at the point where she sees the "glitch" in the matrix. These guys are nice and on paper they seem to be logically better than the jerks she was dating before so she "should" like them more but she DOESN'T. She should want to fuck them but she doesn't. That's the issue.

                This girl is starting to realize the problem. She's realizing that her sexual desires are counterproductive. She is seeing her own romantic prejudices towards men for the first time. Before, she believed in fairy tales and what the world told her. She used to think that the problem was that the jerks weren't giving her what she wanted. Realizing this stuff about herself is the beginning of the redpill for women.

                [–]learningBen 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                There are so many women who are attracted to an assertive "nice guy," why is it so important for us to change into a dick "alpha" to get with this type of girl? Why don't we focus on the realization that some girls are like this, and avoid them?

                [–]joncho 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                This girl would probably be attracted to a nice alpha. When she says he is too nice she is saying he is boring. It's women basic powetalk. She is saying she is not so desperate to get a partner to have to make such a big effort to tolerate the boredom this guy produces on her. This is not about the guy being nice.

                [–]redjimdit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                God am I glad I am weird enough that I don't have to put up with the average woman. And that my wife isn't one of these dreadful types.

                [–]1favours_of_the_moon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Most women seem unable to evolve.

                A dude can suppress his nature. He can hold back and become passive. We've all seen it. But most women can't do that. They are what they are, despite what they wish they could be, what they think they should be, and even what they think they are.

                [–]Ratcliff01 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I'm calling bullshit. I think this was written by a dude.

                [–]aa223 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Too bad we can't use the hamster mobius loop to make a perpetual energy source.

                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                What is the opposite of "nice"? People will go on about bad boys and assholes, but it's not the badness of these guys that give the tingles, it's the fact they're not handing the power over, they're putting themselves first. Some men are able to do this without being bad, they're just confident.

                To some people being confident and not pandering to women's desires is being an asshole, even though it's the ideal way to be for a man.

                Be confident, be interesting, be a challenge, be challenging, say no or "I disagree". You're not an asshole.

                [–]14578542799953267663 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                its kinda sad that women are such slaves to their instincts.

                i would prefer a more challenging lay...

                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                make no mistake, men are too. it's only that people who take the pill become aware of the truth.

                men hamster less, which makes men look less clueless - many a bluepiller is just as baffled as this hamster here though, trust me.

                [–]tuesdayed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                She didn't say she was tired of dating alpha males, just that this guy she happened to get with on OKC was beta and she typically goes out with alphas.

                They've only been on two dates. It's hard to say how things would progress if they were to continue dating.

                Maybe the physical attraction wouldn't be there no matter what, or maybe that attraction will come when she knows him better. Instant attraction or sparks with someone doesn't work out well most of the time anyway, unless you're looking for a ONS.

                Maybe he'll always be like this, and maybe he'll become more assertive once he's more comfortable with her. He may not ever behave like an alpha, but he could at least have enough confidence and initiative to make her feel wanted and sexy (I think that's at least part of the problem).

                [–]Gami_Lon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I have a friend that's going through this right now.

                I have a theory on this:

                I think that when men date a lot of women, they get better at dating. For instance, I can tell if a man is a player in about five minutes. Players are just SMOOTH. They're comfortable, they're confident, they're relaxed.

                But the irony of all this is that they're not available.

                So my friend is dealing with this right now. She used to date a player, and he was smooth and he made her feel special, but he was also fucking everything else in town.

                And now she's dating a 'regular' guy and she's just not thrilled about it. The other day she was telling me that she needs to "let go of the past." Which basically means that she needs to stop pining over the guy that was fucking everything that walks.

                [–]4FF41R 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I am a guy and I can relate to that.

                I love my wife and she's great and all, but she doesn't excites me as much as my lover does. I try to be as excited with her as I am with my lover, but it's just not happening.

                We all have an ex-girlfriend that was just very special, especially in the bedroom, we never thought of her as marriage material, but as we look back we can't help but smile and wish we could have another ride on that.