all 140 comments

[–]19 Endorsed Contributordrrrrrr 136 points137 points  (21 children)

I prefer to not take it seriously, as I think taking it seriously IS the shit test 90% of the time. It's a test of whether you are secure enough to know that her "but Kelly says men should take their girl out once a week to a nice dinner!" is just irrelevant bullshit. Just subvert it, "well go date Kelly's boyfriend. Oh she doesn't have one..."

I wouldn't even take this shit seriously. My GF used to get this shitty magazine, decently soft-feminism but just vapid, called Bust, and she would try to get me to read some relationship articles from it. I wouldn't fall for it and I didn't debate it, I'm not interested in debating these subjects in real life. I never actually got into the ideological debate and refused to engage with her on that subject - 3 months later she's cancelled her Bust subscription.

If I had taken it seriously, she would have held onto that subscription and started reading other harder feminist drivel as a way to "nobly resist" me. If she can tell you hate her reading this type of stuff, she has to keep doing to prove something to herself. When you just ignore it, like it's too infantile and childish to even warrant a serious response - WHICH IT IS - then it goes away in a hurry.

Don't shoot her down with logic unless you're 100% sure she's authentically trying to learn from you. Shoot her down with dumb, self-amusing shit. If she's genuinely trying to understand your ideas, like if she asks what you think about who should pay for dinner, then yeah, that's when you are serious. But when she's putting some bullshit in your face like "what do you think about it? I hope it's what I think about it otherwise Imma get massively offended so you better think the right thing!" then just troll it out. Absence of attention really is one of the best tools in your arsenal.

[–]1Modified_Hackware 83 points84 points  (3 children)

That's fine for you. The OP is a noob.

Your frame of reference is RP. His frame of reference is serious shit testing, he has no credit history on his frame to draw from in all likelihood.

Her: And? How many of those qualities do you think you have? This is not a question, it's a bold relationship fitness test

Him: Words - not the best but whatever.

Her: And? What are you gonna do about it? Again, this isn't something OP in his state can just brush off like a RP vet, it's a critical shit test for someone entering the fold

OP responds well enough for his level of competence which was a clear demonstration of outcome independence and a rejection of feminist dogma through his own values on what his relationship with her is. Not what some feminazi writer thinks.

We'll never know either way but I would bet this approach has better outcomes for OP rather than just swatting the article away from the get go. He doesn't have the historical frame to carry that message across - reputation counts for a lot.

[–]2 Mredpillschool 59 points60 points  (2 children)

We'll never know either way but I would bet this approach has better outcomes for OP rather than just swatting the article away from the get go. He doesn't have the historical frame to carry that message across - reputation counts for a lot.

This is important to make note of- if you've just arrived at TRP and you're learning new stuff, immediately copying the style of /u/gaylubeoil or other cocky submitters may not work out. The attitude/personality change needs to be organic. You can't beat the shit test by agreeing and amplifying if you don't have the historical frame to carry the message.

But it's important to start reframing the relationship so you eventually do.

Very good insight. ♂

[–]Upvote Me!trpbot[M] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Confirmed: 1 point awarded to /u/Modified_Hackware by redpillschool. [History]

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[–]trptw 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think a more extensive PSA on this could be extremely useful to other newcomers. I was somewhat red pill to an extent before coming here, but when my LTR felt like it was falling apart I came here for help and everything in the sidebar immediately made sense to me. So much so that I decided that two days after really "swallowing" the pill, I was going to use this stuff in my relationship in order to salvage it, starting with a party that night.

The change was violent. I went from failing every shit test (trying to prove her wrong, exactly the opposite of what she wants) to trying one of the strategies in the "shit tests 101 post" on EVERY SINGLE SHIT TEST literally overnight, and she nearly imploded. The tests got worse and worse all night until she literally accused me of smelling her roommates hair in front of her.

I held frame and by morning she had apologized profusely for the way she acted, i forgave her in an "amused mastery" sort of way, and things have been AMAZING since (and after all the roommate shit, her roommate started hitting on me, funny how that works). But such a rapid change after having not dealt with shit tests effectively in the two years we'd been together sent her hamster spinning so fast I thought it might do permanent damage. She was hysterical at one point.

Anyway, what I'm saying is if I had read this post before that night I could have worked the methods in gradually to have a less volatile reaction that wouldn't have hurt her AND would have saved myself so much headache. I guess it worked out in a way that I got my relationship to where it needed to be EXTREMELY fast but I think I would have preferred a smooth transition.

[–]bautron 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I want to reinforce something i read in your post. About the girl nobly resisting and avoiding that.

Not underestimating a potential passive aggression is important. It also is a great incentive to preferr dissmissing a subject over taking it seriously.

All in all, RP makes me feel really confident and feeling strong. But i will take the mental note to not over do it.

[–]ugghhf 3 points4 points  (0 children)

99% of the time the correct answer is to straight up ignore what she says.

[–]ShagggyDog[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

I see your point. But I have to give you a little bit backstory on why I couldn't go with that approach and had to be moderate about it.

I have been with her for more than four years and we have a hell of a story (probably unique) but that's another story. I was away for two months this summer and I cheated on her with a HB8/9 20yo American girl. And, since I think cheating is for pussies and I wanted to keep my LTR, I let her know the story after I came back and let her decide. She immediately showed that she still wants me but she couldn't handle the truth (as it is really sad and upsetting and I am really sorry that I did it to her as human being). I had to make compromises to make her feel better while she gets over it, and at the same time not give her any promises about future. It was virtually impossible to roll back the relationship status without giving away a little bit of frame.

Now this story was a symptom of that backstory. I would call it a trust test rather than a shit test, since she trusted me %100 before summer. Plus, I just said I wanted to look serious. Because laughing at it would push her off the ledge and make drama. I am kind of in a pickle since I ate my cake and want to have it too. Interestingly enough, this was the story that brought me to TRP. I have a lot to share about my summer story and how much RP gold there is in it. But I have been waiting until I get a good grasp of the concepts. I will probably share that along with how my LTR went in future.

Thanks for the input.

[–]19 Endorsed Contributordrrrrrr 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah, that makes sense, idk why you're getting downvoted. Depending on the girl and depending on how she reacted to nuclear dread (cheating on her with an upgrade), it's realistic to expect to rebuild some trust. No one can perpetually be casually dismissive in the self amused way for 4 years.

[–]tallwheel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah. I would have read the article aloud with her and laughed my ass off at it the whole time.

[–]Jessie_James 21 points22 points  (6 children)

A long, long time ago my (now) wife showed me one of those magazine articles, and I laughed in her face. I said something like "That crap is written by some staff writer whose only goal is to get you to buy more magazines. You aren't falling for that crap, are you?"

That was the end of that.

[–]generic_name 10 points11 points  (5 children)

"That crap is written by some staff writer whose only goal is to get you to buy more magazines. You aren't falling for that crap, are you?"

That's usually my reply when my wife shows me something on parenting. "does that person have a Ph.D? What are their credentials? Oh they don't even put their name on the article you're reading? Then who gives a shit what it says?".

[–]MagnanimousGenius 86 points87 points  (2 children)

Appreciated reading that, my LTR tended to bring up a bit of feminazi bs in the past but I usually shot her down with logic and moved on, same kind of line as

Me: No. I'm not gonna set my relationship based on the opinions of a random feminist on the internet. It is surprising for me that you want to do that. But you are free to have your standards and make your decisions. (Pressure Flip)

Wonderful. Made this argument to a teacher when she was telling me off for calling out on all the flaws in her feminist shit, these people aren't scientists, they just have biased opinions

[–]billthane 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Cool, reasonable logic seems to work well in feminist debates, with the occasional barb. For romantic arguments, it starts getting muddy... Seemed like a pretty well handled situation from OP and you though.

[–]2asd1100 15 points16 points  (0 children)

We are from an eastern culture with soon-to-be-gone-but-still-a-little patriarchy tendencies

still gynocentric, women game is just more refined and society is more ceorcive if you choose not to follow.

I know it's gonna be hard to find an RPW in this country, but who cares. I won't settle for bullshit.

you have no idea how hard guys from anglo saxon countries have it. Be gratefull.

You handled it great, I sprinkle some:

I read it, do you have anything to say for yourself? are you unhappy with the relationship? If you want a pussy for a boyfriend I completely get it, but I am not that man so we better break up know because you are wasting your youth with me. Don't get angry we can still fuck on occasions.

Never be afraid to downgrade her, never be afraid of blowing up her passive agressive games in her face and never let her become sick with "man-hate". I think patrice said it, it's a sickness that nestles in a womans insecurity, that part of their brain that was created to push them to please their men gets filled up with man hate. Clean that shit right out.

[–]1Watermelon_Salesman 25 points26 points  (9 children)

I have started swallowing long before I find here

Yeah, I'm starting to second guess the whole pill-swallowing analogy.

[–]1wiseclockcounter 2 points3 points  (0 children)

wait, it wasn't a suppository... ?

[–]TestosteroneFilled 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Seriously though.

Maybe injecting is better?

[–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's a Matrix allusion to a scene to unplug. It's being over-quoted. It wasn't an injection.

Anyone who's actually ever injected a red pill would not think this is a good replacement quote.

[–]DoctorWelch 0 points1 point  (3 children)

(I didn't get it)

[–]1Watermelon_Salesman 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You clearly didn't get it, did you?

[–]DoctorWelch 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nope, just woke up...now I get it.

[–]clam61 28 points29 points  (32 children)

i think you did fine because you got the result you were looking for

people who say you should have been this way or should have been that way are try to give a canned solution for a dynamic situation. in other words, no one knows your gf so they cant tell you the best way to handle it. not all women will react the same. if you are too asshole-ish some might get pissed off and be really stubborn about it due to some pride-ego thing. I know that's how my ex would have reacted.

for the poster saying "leave the faggy" i think he is confusing being an asshole with being TRP. if you are really TRP then you don't need to act like a hardass. people on this sub who act like hardasses are overcompensating IMO and is the one annoying thing about this place.

[–]pantsoffire 8 points9 points  (0 children)

to give a canned solution for a dynamic situation.

I feel this should be taught along side Critical Thinking. Wither Sidebar or all through schooling. Unfortunately that is exactly what our children are taught in those same enviroments. Do we really have to wait to be in Uni in a Philosophy 101 class to discover this? Wouldn't knowing and practising crital thinking from a young age require men and women to question the status quo, in regards to social situations as well as the RP outlook on life?

[–]ilphae 3 points4 points  (0 children)

if you are really TRP then you don't need to act like a hardass.

Nice one man. This is so true.

A real fighter never starts a fight, but finishes them decisively.

Overly direct approaches and bullying are a clear giveaway of insecurity and weakness. It makes one look very childish.

[–]Perch1 18 points19 points  (18 children)

Handled it like a pro. Just keep doing what you're doing, it'll probably be fine.

[–]sumdumguy-throwaway 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Me: No. I'm not gonna set my relationship based on the opinions of a random feminist on the internet. It is surprising for me that you want to do that.

This, times a million.

I don't know how many times some chick has showed me some article, written by god knows who, taking it as some high authority on whatever was being written about.

chances are the article was written by some nobody, getting paid per word, under some deadline pressure. It is all crap.

[–]2 Mredpillschool 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't know how many times some chick has showed me some article, written by god knows who, taking it as some high authority on whatever was being written about.

Well, usually it's written in a way that appeals to her innate female desire. She likes the idea of the subservient beta, wants to betatize her alpha. So when somebody writes something that she agrees with, it gives her more ammo for trying.

[–]AchillesOtherLeg 30 points31 points  (11 children)

I don't think the pressure was strong enough. I might have said something like.

"Well I'm nothing like this and I'm never going to be so if this is what you want the door is over there".

Some might call that an over reaction. I call it hammering the point home. Presenting you with an article and saying "how many of these qualities do you have, what are you going to do about it?" is massively insulting and direct. The magnitude of a shit test should dictate the magnitude of the shut down.

[–]Risky_Clicks_NSFW 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Context is important, LTR over 4 years, subtle dread is much more effective in these relationships than overt dread you require in Shorter term relationships. IMO.

[–]TekkomanKingz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

She doesn't seem like the type to respond to subtle dread

[–]pantsoffire 15 points16 points  (7 children)

With out being there and experiencing the facial expressions and body langauge and tone of voice and emphassis on certain words... I believe we are a long way from giving such clear cut advice.

[–]AchillesOtherLeg 20 points21 points  (6 children)

To an extent the tone of voice is irrelevant when the message is so clear.

We consistently talk about power talk and direct communication here and this is as clear as it gets.

1) Presents article that describes feminised man 2) Insinuates he is lacking 3) demands he change to reflect feminist ideal.

It's a heavy duty shit test. Her language puts me in a mind of an HR manager trying to get buy in. Not good.

To illustrate this point consider the reaction you'd get presenting an article to an average hamster dictating a red pill relationship ideal and saying "how will you change to reflect this?" while looking expectant of an actual answer. We both know it would make my suggestion look mild.

[–]1Modified_Hackware 26 points27 points  (4 children)

I agree.

For those who are struggling to see what a monumental shit test this is (As in she has respect in utter free fall for you at this stage) imagine taking an article on when to next your girl.

On it it says.

  • Always fucking with your phone.

  • Doesn't fuck like a whore.

  • Doesn't suck your dick each morning.

  • Doesn't cook dinner every day.

  • Doesn't dress well.

  • Has a body fat higher than 20%

Do you think having presented that to your girl and then asking her what she feels about it and how many ticks in boxes she has... Do you think you'd have a rational conversation afterwards? She would go fucking berserk.

The least a man can do is hold his ground and be strongly outcome independent.

Or ya know, you could say

You know honey maybe I should buy you flowers once a week from here on. Thanks for the nudge.

See what happens to your relationship.

[–]AchillesOtherLeg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Quite right and I also think people who recoil from this level of directness are acting out of unjustified fear. I would be extremely surprised if her response to my statement was...

"oh well i'd better use that door right now then because a feminised pussy is what i want, nay need!" <walks out>.

There are times for caution, for restraint, these aren't those.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Why even buckle and take this sort of behaviour seriously, showing her behaviour is affecting you? Why not laugh in her face?

[–]AchillesOtherLeg 2 points3 points  (0 children)

you cant just laugh at something.

you first have to establish that it is beneath serious consideration else you just look like you're stonewalling with humour. sooner or later you will be explicitly asked for a serious response. Avoidance is a Beta behaviour and i think it's being encouraged too much.

Once everyone is set straight then you can laugh because laughing is shorthand for that shit we talked about before.

[–]1Ill_mumble_that 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Laughing it off doesn't work for heavy shit tests like this unless you have a very very aloof history to back it up.

The best option would be to agree and amplify.

Go down the list and start making amendments. "You know, it says nothing in here about wearing adult diapers, but don't worry I'll just add that to the list. Let's see what else could we do, did you write this list? You should be ashamed if you did, it's horribly incomplete! There's so much more a perfect man should do!"

[–]pantsoffire -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

  1. An extent, argueable. Voice is irrelevant, unusual. Message is so clear, opinion.

  2. Well, maybe. "Direct Communication." We can come back to this at your leisure.

  3. Yes, she does. 3A. Asks- is he lacking. 3B. Asks if there is things he could/ should/ etc change.

It's a minor, small calibre shot across the bow of his ship/ their relationship.

Your turn.

[–]drallcom3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you have at least some wit and intelligence, such an article provides you so many opportunities for fun and laughter. You can agree and amplify that thing into the stratosphere.

Taking it even the slightest bit serious is a mistake.

[–]beaudee 6 points7 points  (0 children)

/u/cali_gunner: I see that you've deleted your posts before I could comment:

complaining about downvotes and getting all riled up over the internet seems pretty beta to me.

[–]suloco 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Well handled, OP. The pressure flip was spot on.

[–]Ojisan1 4 points5 points  (1 child)

started swallowing long before

Could we all stop using this phrase, please? Yes I know it's a pill analogy and all that, but does every self post have to start with "I swallow"?

Kidding (sorta. But sorta not.)

She backs down while I listen to the sound of victory in my mind.

That's a great line. Not even listening to her hamster her way back into your frame.

[–]1KyfhoMyoba 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I prefer the term, "ingest."

[–]mtndewlover 1 point2 points  (1 child)

The nice, if potentially perilous, thing about being completely open with LTRs about the red pill is that, once it sinks in, it completely immunizes the woman against feminist bullshit. I couldn't imagine my wife trying to point out qualities in a clearly feminist article and implying that I should adopt them. Her brain would literally have to be forced by an evil demon into a different time space continuum, time travel backwards, relive the last 4 years at hyperspeed, and catch up to me. Possible, yes. Likely, no.

[–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You obviously have never seen the transdimensional hamster-wheel. A prototype was shown in Event Horizon.

You don't need testicles where we're going - only an open wallet!

[–]armenia4ever 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Holding frame with girls countries that are still heavily men dominated is key.

There is the rather gorgeous girl from Turkmenistan I met at school. (i thought she was Asian). She mentioned how she needed to get her brothers permission to do things including hair cuts.

My ears perked up.

I pressed for more information. She tells me she is okay with this and this is just how it is in her culture. She even didn't speak unfavorably of arranged marriages. I brought that up too). She also mentions she doesn't like TV, but does like to read literature.

Unicorn detector is slowly going off...

[–]SunshineAndLollypops 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Then when you date her, hours of end of TV nights.

[–]1Zanford 1 point2 points  (0 children)

She sounds like a major bitch. "How many of those do you have, what are you going to do about it." She's not even being subtle. Geez. Fantastic reframe by baiting her to walk away. It's a pressure flip, shows willingness to walk, and grace under pressure. Excellent.

I love her lack of accountability. "It just came up somewhere and I clicked on it." Oh, and then you read it by accident? Fwded it to me by accident? Started a fight over it by accident?

She sounds like a major bitch. You're gonna need to ramp up the aloof asshole game, give her intense sex, etc. Make her swallow and take it up the ass if she isn't already (based on her attitude I'm guessing not).

[–]∞ Red Pill VisionaryRollo-Tomassi 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Women's standards crumble given the right incentive:

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/12/14/womens-standards-crumble-easily-given-the-right-incentives/

Maxim #39: A woman’s standards are like a house of cards: kick out one from the bottom and the whole edifice crashes down.

[–]IpponDropkick 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think you killed it and some of the reactions suggested here are asinine. You're the goddamn captain, you're confident in that. If the captain gets a stupid suggestion, he doesn't flip out and overreact. He calmly states his case (I'm not changing who I am based on a random article on the internet) and moves on. You had a good approach and got a good result.

[–]Handiesandcandies 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have a mild justice boner.

[–]DrakeSaint 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My input is the amount of people with RP mindset ready to go which call themselves "newbies" and others who self-proclaim alpha status and swallowed pill with nothing but hamster affirmation is too damn high.

And your post gives credibility to it. You're not in learning phase if you can deflect that so masterfully.

[–]monsieurhire2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah, good old "You current appliance isn't good enough! Time to get a new applianace!" agitprop.

[–]forgeror 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Nicely done OP. BTW. Do you have the link to the Feminist article? Just asked out of curiosity.

[–]ShagggyDog[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I actually don't. I read it on her phone. You can find a crapload of similar articles with a quick search though. It was nothing new to the community, so I didn't share it when I could remember it.

[–]TekkomanKingz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great job, now the key is to have her watch RP YouTube videos and read RP articles.

They try to brainwash us now they'll be the ones getting indoctrinated with RP!!!

[–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Backing down from a direct challenge like this would not be holding frame: it would in fact be showing that you are weak and felt weak by being challenged by this. You did everything exactly right.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not how a typical shit test is handled but that may not be a bad thing, OP seems to be in an LTR and taking some slightly more BP inroads and concessions; engaging in her bullshit makes him seem attached at face value but his words show his mental freedom of choice and fortitude of will.

I would not call this a blunder but I would encourage the OP to shrug off shit tests instead blowing them the fuck out of the water. Your girl will start carrying negative emotions associated with being BTFO over this and other things and if she isn't directing them inwardly or at the source of her fuck up she will direct them at you. Shrugging off bullshit does a damned fine job of extincting behavior because there was no reward for her behavior.

[–]i_meant_lulz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nope I think you answered well. She seems controllable for now. If she was a bitch about it, then I would have nuked it on the spot. I'd recommend you take more control of what stupid articles she reads online.

For ex, tell her you don't want to see any similar articles written by a feminist on her phone.

Set the tone for what you expect of her.

[–]Miamiheat87 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You did a great approach to handling it. The woman isn't going to leave you if you are indifferent about the matter. There isn't a better way of handling it.

[–]ConfidenceMatters -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

The fuck are you doing running straight into a shit test like that?

And? How many of those qualities do you think you have?

"It's complicated."

Why? Why is it complicated!?!?!?!

"Cuz I odn't wanna get you pregnant." Sly smirk.

Ignore and move on.

Never give this type of cunty behavior the time of day or credibility by tackling it seriously.