top 200 commentsshow all 240

[–][deleted] 366 points367 points  (22 children)

Improving yourself forces others to examine their own inadequacy.

Nobody wants to do that so they stifle your growth.

[–]SassyVelociraptor 47 points48 points  (1 child)

They're bringing you down to their level to justify to themselves why they can't or aren't doing what you're trying to do. Stick in there, buddy.

[–]itwasninjas 3 points4 points  (0 children)

they are giving you shit tests consistent with the shit tests they have failed already

[–]CarnageReincarnate 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Misery loves company. Its as simple as that, its not about you, it's about them

[–][deleted]  (6 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Cacciaguida 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    be smart and delete this post and use another account

    [–]johnniegreen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Awesome. Be sure to post the results.

    [–]the99percent1 10 points11 points  (0 children)

    consequently, people do want to see you put in the effort but ultimately fail. Because that just validates their position of 'why bother'. 'Look at that guy who tried and failed.'

    Dont fall for them..

    [–]Dark triad expert: - http://illimitablemen.com/ - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    [–]loin_fruit 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    I believe there was a thread a couple months ago, that was saying that the reason women say they don't love big dudes who could snap them in half is because they're self conscious of their appearance, and know they can't get the big muscly dude.

    [–]dark-hokage 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Saving this comment. True words

    [–]1wiseclockcounter -1 points0 points  (5 children)

    This sounds like it could be projection though. How can you be sure of what others are actually thinking?

    [–]1AreYouAware_ 32 points33 points  (2 children)

    The crab bucket is a well known phenomenon. While women are notorious for doing it, men are not exempt either.

    Look at any dieting message forum and you'll find examples of people looking for advice on how to deal with friends and coworkers who make a special effort to give the dieter extra food, leave candies out on their desks, cajole them into taking second, and more.

    [–]fuckingkike 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    The crab bucket phenomena is also used as an excuse to ignore valid criticism.

    [–]Dorrog 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    That's the hard part about changing. You are stepping into new experiences while your brain is adapted to a different reality. You don't have the experience and automatisms of the new reality yet. So you still test and sometimes fuck up, but you can not be sure if the backslash is guaranteed or not.

    [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    You may have a point, but whenever someone tries to stop my upward movement, the question is always "Why?"

    Normally the answer is that they're selfish and don't want to see someone improve.

    [–]alfredo_linguini 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Who gives a damn what they're thinking? Just keep lifting.

    [–]Position5hero 176 points177 points  (49 children)

    Women don't like the idea of someone becoming an alpha male.

    For them, it's genetics- the idea of wanting the seed of someone that was at some point in their life prior deemed unworthy, disgusts them, makes them feel stupid, like they can be tricked.

    To draw a parallel, it's the same as how men sometimes feel tricked/taken advantage of when the girl they thought was a 9 last night with full makeup wakes up next to them in the morning and they realize she's a 5 with no makeup.

    [–]zxDanKwan 174 points175 points  (8 children)

    This.

    Or, to put it another way: Women judge comparatively, while men judge objectively.

    When a guy rates a chick as a 5/10, it's because that is the final result after tallying up all of her pros and cons. It has nothing to do with other women or the man, himself. Simply a pure and objective evaluation of that individual girl.

    When a woman rates you as a 5/10, it's in comparison to what she thinks she can pull. And, as we know, when they hit the wall, they start to reevaluate what they can pull, standards get lowered, and they settle for BB, while still dreaming of AF.

    When a previous Beta turns Alpha, and the woman starts to find him attractive, behind the scenes (and unbeknownst to him) he is causing that woman to reevaluate what she thinks she can pull before her biology is ready to admit that is necessary.

    In other words - a women's solipsism cannot accept that her rating could or would ever change (because, of course, she could never be wrong about that). So, if she at some point in the past rated you as below her and now you are going above her, the only explanation she can possibly fathom is that her own worth is declining, and that she is now seeing you as attractive because she is becoming less attractive.

    If we could find a way to harness the energy produced by the hamster as it tries to cope with this, we would have near limitless energy for the entire galaxy.

    TL;DR - don't listen to what they say, watch what they do. Any woman telling you not to work out is just trying to maintain her own value by keeping you below her.

    [–]Iramohs 14 points15 points  (2 children)

    You deserve some gold my friend. I also highly recommend that people reading this save this post for future reference.

    [–]zxDanKwan 13 points14 points  (0 children)

    Huh... Explained an aspect of solipsism. Found the answer to endless energy. Got gold.

    Today was a good day.

    [–]BadJokeHour 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    this dude is more in tune with the female mindset than 99% of men.

    [–]confuseacatlmtd 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Those are great points. I also think that there is an aspect of her needing to admit that she was wrong and being unable to deal with that, as well as anxiety that she missed her chance to bag what turned out to be an alpha.

    [–]ilk425 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    As a newbie it's still so weird to look at an issue in the way a woman sees it, but with posts like yours I'm starting to get the hang of it. Cheers man

    [–]zxDanKwan 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Just remember that a woman always sees herself as the protagonist of every interaction (while a guy can see that he may not be the one everyone is focused on).

    She is always the center of her universe. Therefore, her judgement is never to be called directly into question - this is why we do not confront women with logic. A logical argument is clearly saying "you don't think correctly". Drives women up the wall.

    Instead, by ignoring, or agree & amplify, and other methods, RP men focus on indirectly challenging women, in such a way as to lead them to their own conclusion that what they said was wrong.

    It's like Inception. You've got to make them think it was their idea to do what you want.

    Edit: a great way to get that hamster working for you is to tell her she "can't" do what you want her to do (either not allowed or incapable, pending on the action in question)

    [–]Dorrog 14 points15 points  (13 children)

    This is repeated often but I'm not convinced. At 22 you are still defining yourself. Plus even becoming an alpha at 30 means you have a certain intelligence to do so.

    I interpret it more like trying to avoid conpetition.from guys and shit twst from women, checking if you are serious about it. Plus in general people is change adverse and will oppose any change.

    [–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (4 children)

    I don't buy it either. I think women absolutely do try to keep their beta orbiters down, but I don't think a woman gives a fuck if some hot stranger she just met today used to be a loser in highschool. Women are EXTREMELY present-minded, they're terrible at judging a beta's longterm potential and they're terrible at critically evaluating a perceived catch's past.

    [–]humankin 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Women are EXTREMELY present-minded

    In this context yes but "living in the present" is definitely not something women are commonly good at as seen by women being more neurotic than men*. Men don't do well here either but better than women, especially in the outliers.

    * This was empirically determined. Look up OCEAN personality typing.

    [–]1AreYouAware_ 7 points8 points  (6 children)

    Consider the findings of the study recently done in which it was found that when people were shown photos of attractive women, asked to rate them, then were told that some of them used to be fat, that men and women alike both down-rated the former fatties.

    I think this suggests that there's a possibility that this sort of evaluation happens in and to all people, and in more areas than weight. We are absolutely judged on our pasts, and on how others judged us in our pasts.

    [–]hairaware 4 points5 points  (2 children)

    Makes sense to me. With ex overweight people there is a chance there could be some loose skin. Thinking long term people who have always been skinny have less of a chance at putting on weight in most circumstances. Once you build those fat cells theyre there for life.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–]hairaware 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      You were an addict. The reward responses in your brain for sugar and carbs are huge. Its like quitting smoking x 100. gl

      [–]humankin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      That sounds like a case of contrast bias only the comparison was between what is seen and what is extrapolated. Of course people would cognitively fail in this way outside of the lab so it's still useful research.

      [–]Dorrog 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      It makes sense. Think about what you think. If they tell you some girl was overweight you think she might still have issues coming from her overweight past, or will lack certain experiences, while a girl that had always been thin will believe more in herself.

      But I don't think it's such a definitive factor, just introduces more doubts hence more shit tests.

      [–]Gunnilingus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      There might be some merit to your point, in that if an individual exhibited unattractive qualities in the past, it is implied that they have the potential to revert back to those qualities. Certainly if a woman used to be fat, I would expect she's more likely to become fat in the future than a woman who is naturally skinny, and that would factor into my evaluation of their potential for an LTR.

      [–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      It's true. To explain it you need to understand the primitive biological forces at play. Women are attractive to "naturals", men who exhibit these qualities without having had to put in any work, as it signifies the potential of their DNA. Alpha imitation is a fairly common phenomenon in the wild; lower totem males will sometimes adopt the behaviours of the top alpha to entice a mate. Females in turn developed keep methods for identifying true alpha genetics. When women say "Be yourself", they really mean it -- they don't want the added difficulty of discerning a beta poser from an alpha.

      It all comes down for selecting the best genetics. Even a 16 year old can be an alpha.

      [–]1whatsazipper 5 points6 points  (4 children)

      There's no reason to believe this. I see it repeated a lot but I think the real reason is closer to:

      Improving yourself forces others to examine their own inadequacy.

      Nobody wants to do that so they stifle your growth.

      Nothing to do with some abstract idea of 'genetics' and trickery.

      [–]Position5hero 5 points6 points  (1 child)

      I'd argue a combination of both.

      Women mostly sexually desire men based on their SMV, as you know, and this is basically their view on his value in terms of providing them with good seed, this is the basis for attraction in BOTH genders, as it's your bodies/minds way of encouraging you to seek good genetic material to either put in yourself, or good carries for it

      [–]1whatsazipper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      It's not like putting on make up, though. It is neither a topping nor a deception. If the men in question didn't have the required genetics to get to that point, then it wouldn't be a possible transition.

      [–]_psylock 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Women would much rather have the guy who inherently has those alpha genes, and not the guy who was 'born beta' and somehow made himself acceptable.

      [–]1whatsazipper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      People do not know what the genes are. They can only assess their outward manifestation (i.e. phenotype). If two genetic sets ultimately result in the same expression, albeit one of which took a longer time to reach that expression, then they will be selected upon in a similar manner.

      If you walk the walk and fit the image, then it doesn't matter how you got there. On the other hand, women are revolted by incongruency; that is, some chump trying to imitate a desirable man but who doesn't fit the bill. He may still be a work in progress or never get there.

      Either way, women do not assess your genes below that level. They don't run around with a PCR machine.

      [–]through_a_ways 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      To draw a parallel, it's the same as how men sometimes feel tricked/taken advantage of when the girl they thought was a 9 last night with full makeup wakes up next to them in the morning and they realize she's a 5 with no makeup.

      More like really good plastic surgery. Makeup fades, long term paradigm changes don't.

      "Alphaness" is also definitely less genetic than looks. It's definitely genetic to some extent, but also heavily environmental/situational.

      [–][deleted] 35 points36 points  (16 children)

      I feel you OP. I've learned that, ironically enough, you can't rely on the people who love you to encourage you to change the way you are. If they really care about you they will be predisposed to point out where your plan of action could fail, because at the end of the day: they don't want you taking risks. The people who love you the most will always steer you towards the least risky path.

      Example A: You're an overweight smoker. Your parents will encourage you to eat better and quit smoking to combat the health risks of your current state.

      Example B: You are healthy, of average weight, but unfit. Your parents will encourage you to stay the way you are because with a lifting/fitness lifestyle you are more likely to injure yourself than your current mediocre state.

      Or that you will get a meathead look that will keep the best quality mates away. Or any stupid reason they can pull out of their asses because “if it ain't broke don't fix it.” The reasoning behind that line of thinking is that making ANY alteration is going to come with a degree of risk, so only do it when its absolutely necessary. People, even the ones who care about you, won't ever see an enhancement as necessary.

      edit: typos

      [–]humankin 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      A hypothesis as to why:

      The people who love you the most will be the ones you rely on should you fail. You're also the person that will hold them up should they fail, especially in old age.

      This expands even to career choice. Parents in certain cultures prefer their kids to take the well-beaten paths to financial success because their kids are a retirement plan.

      [–]ShinyBrah 4 points5 points  (14 children)

      If anything, a "meathead" look will just attract better quality women 1000x than before.

      [–]markasstrick123 9 points10 points  (13 children)

      Women logic= I can't stand guys that obsess over how many grams of protein they need to get in a day, I like guitar players now that's sexy--- responds well to muscles and healthy skin, friend zones guitar player for being skinny and socially awkward (they usually are).

      [–]Pubic_Lice 13 points14 points  (0 children)

      Nah, most guitar players I know (that play in public) are above average smv.

      [–]jelloba 6 points7 points  (7 children)

      Women really cannot stand guys who make working out the central pillar of their identity. They don't like to hear about PRs, or macros, or anything technical.

      What women really, really like is a guy who is ripped. Any background details are superfluous.

      [–]markasstrick123 4 points5 points  (6 children)

      Basically they want you to be magically ripped, it's hilarious

      [–]jelloba 13 points14 points  (3 children)

      It's a general theme; the "Why" or "How" of anything isn't important to most girls.

      Have you ever been told that women wear makeup not to impress guys, but because it makes them "feel good" about themselves? Okay, that's true, but why do they feel good about themselves? Because they look better... and therefore are more attractive... to men.

      [–]markasstrick123 5 points6 points  (2 children)

      Women tell me that all the time and i'm just like 'haha sure.' women wear it because they know their physical attraction dictates the way they are treated in life.

      Women need to understand that having a strong, healthy body is extreme dedication. Destroy yourself in the gym, eat healthy, supplement, recovery, sleep... you're working 24 hours a day. We could just get into relationships with women who are really into fitness, then they would understand our struggle.

      [–]jelloba 5 points6 points  (1 child)

      I just wish that they would be honest about this shit. Of course I go to the gym for the physiological benefits that working out brings, but I freely admit to also doing it for the sake of being more attractive.

      [–]markasstrick123 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Brb being alpha brb doing imaginary push up brb chest is too big

      [–]markasstrick123 22 points23 points  (4 children)

      This is true. Unless you have an alpha father (you probably don't), he's going to swoleshame you. Same goes for family, friends, and peers. They can't seeing women checking you out and flirting with you more than they do to them. Haters are a good sign.

      Check out bobby maximus on twitter. He works at gymjones (the guys who helped the 300, repo men, man of steel, immortals actors get into shape). Look at all of his pictures. He's what we all should strive to be like. The guy is alpha as fuck. The guy can cycle 2 miles in 10 minutes, do 838 dips in an hour, rack pull over 600#, etc... look at pictures of his kid, we are all extremely jealous of him. The kid was doing planks at the age of one and he's got him cussing at people at age 5. The kids going to be an absolute beast. Having a father who is an athlete must be nice!

      [–]WazzuMadBro 1 point2 points  (3 children)

      Same goes for family, friends, and peers. They can't seeing women checking you out and flirting with you more than they do to them. Haters are a good sign.

      Story time. Dealt with the "friend" hater last night. This dude on the surface is extremely alpha. I mean the prototype. Big, jacked, rides a harley and everywhere he goes men show him respect.

      When I go out with him he sees me as his wingman but does not expect or like me to out succeed him with women. And boy did that happen last night. Im not sure what I did for sure but I was pulling girls left and right and even had ones I hadnt even talked to orbit near me to get my attention (talking a 8 and 9 here too I was shocked) and when talking to me would completely ignore him even after I tried my best to pass the attention of one of them his way (because I actually am a good wingman). Oh but I DID notice him trying to basically steal some of the girls out from under me. When Id talk to a new girl he would go after the ones I had just finished talking to and kept getting shut down by them and they would come back to me everytime.

      He was pissed and on the car ride home he just out of nowhere made a comment about how this one girl I hit on had a big nose. The same girl I watched him trying to chat up multiple times when I was doing something else and who shut him down and came back after me. I was dumbfounded he would make such a shitty hating ass comment like that but it helped me realize he now sees me as more of a threat and competitor than he did before.

      Good wingmen sure are hard to find. Good friends are even harder.

      [–]1ImRasputin 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      HeWazzMadBro

      That's pretty badass, to be honest. Can you explain your night out in-detail, I mean from what you described you were god of pussy. How did you do that?

      [–]WazzuMadBro 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Alright well it started out at a bar closer to my place. It was packed and kind of a sausage fest so we both decided to go to a country bar on ladies night and it was prime. I mean the place was easily twice as many women to men which made things easier and I have the outdoorsman look which meant I fit the profile of the type of guy women there would be most attracted to.

      I was already having a good day and had landed a date with this cute younger blonde in a class of mine (by the way im 31 going to a big commuter college) so I was in a good mood and honestly didnt give much a shit about how well I was gonna do that night and just wanted to have fun and dance and drink. It also helped that I had an in with a girl there already who played for the colleges volleyball team. I danced a lot with her and were both kinda goofballs and while people were dancing all proper we just kinda did shit and tried to dance but were having fun. This got me noticed by other random girls I believe because I kept getting my arm grabbed by girls walking by me and had random orbiters like the two who came and stood in front of me to get my attention while me and my bud were smoking and joking outside (less joking more acting as his therapist at this point unfortunately).

      At one point I was dancing with the volleyball girl (who told me on multiple occasions Ive been in her dreams, and yes I plan to smash soon) and another girl whose number I landed and made out with on the dance floor. Had another girl straight up ask to come home with me and got 3 other numbers. Coulda and woulda done better but my friend who wasnt getting any attention and who drove was butthurt wanted to leave suddenly and go back to the original bar. I shoulda said no and regretted it later because the next bar was a cockfest. I actually didnt get laid so Im hardly the god of pussy. Still was a good night though and Im gonna end up fucking two of the girls from last night so Im not upset over it.

      tl;dr- I was in an outcome independent mindset and just wanted to have fun. Setting was very opportunistic. Social proof.

      [–][deleted]  (10 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]TekkomanKingz 19 points20 points  (2 children)

        Hollywood you are gonna get attacked for promoting escorts on here. Despite the fact IMO it's hands down the most traditional and best way for a young man to lose his virginity.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–]TekkomanKingz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Works well for the average everyday young man as well.

          [–]r3dp1ll 2 points3 points  (5 children)

          what about incall? is that more risky? I'm going to have to wait for my roommates to leave to do outcall

          do you think it's better to tell the escort you're a virgin?

          also how much cash should i have for an hour?

          [–][deleted]  (4 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]TimeToBugOut 17 points18 points  (3 children)

            Nothing wrong with getting big. Get as big as you want.

            But if your objective is to maximize your attraction, you also need to be proportional. You can be big AND proportional, but it's hard.

            People idealize different proportional standards. I prefer the Greek proportional ideal (and I believe most women do too).

            [–]Pubic_Lice 7 points8 points  (1 child)

            I just want traps and lats big enough to fly like a squirrel with.

            [–]markasstrick123 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Think Michael fassbender and Tom Wisdom in 300.

            [–]blarghstar 45 points46 points  (4 children)

            Redpill is about not believing what you're told.

            [–]1AfterC 29 points30 points  (2 children)

            It's also, importantly, not believing everything you're told here. Particularly in a sub ballooning in size as it is now, the eternal September phenomenon will creep in, and soon experts of one month will be telling you what to do.

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

            [deleted]

              [–]fanfanye 11 points12 points  (0 children)

              I used to be annoyed by the guys that think the sidebar is the infallible bible.

              Now I'm not even sure if people actually read the sidebar.

              [–]theprofessorsnumber[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              Amen dude. Its just amazing how many people want to keep you down. So glad I found this sub

              [–]leodoestheopposite 28 points29 points  (0 children)

              "Your Friends will want you to do good, but not better then them".

              [–]GeneralDoli 12 points13 points  (0 children)

              Tell them you're planning on going to prison and want to bulk up before you go in, let them flip the fuck out wondering why.

              [–]Goldfulgore 23 points24 points  (1 child)

              Ignore everyone.

              I went your path and I can tell you my mom was full of shit.

              Women have no valid opinions, they just say what they feel.

              You friends are beta, ignore them.

              [–]1IVIaskerade 30 points31 points  (14 children)

              Fuck even my mom "don't get that big its unattractive and smart girls don't like that"

              The best response to that is "Oh well, I guess I'll just have to not look for smart girls."

              [–]Surf_Or_Die 21 points22 points  (2 children)

              Even better; why the hell would I give a flying fuck about their intellect? If I want to hang around intelligent people I'll hit up the motherfucking physics department. I want a sexy piece of ass who makes my dick hard.

              Maybe not in those words to your sweet mother but that's the gist.

              [–]Idle_Redditing 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              [–]G_Star 9 points10 points  (1 child)

              You're totally right. If you're anxious, depressed, shy, small, etc., people want you to remain that way for the rest of your life because it's more beneficial to them. Your friends want you to remain the pussy because that's how you fit in to their community. If you change yourself at all, the entire community changes. You could end up taking their women and sacrificing their genes in the process. Your mom doesn't want you to change either. You've been placed in the beta role for a reason. You're supposed to get resources for the family so alphas can get busy fucking bitches and doing important shit. It's more beneficial to her to keep you down. You're supposed to be making 40 grand a year in a shitty job you hate with a fat wife that fucks you twice a year. It's literally her instinct to help create this reality for you. Try not to let it affect your opinion of her.

              If you want to make it to the top, you have to deal with all this shit. They will test you to no end, maybe for the rest of your life, who knows. So make choices for yourself and listen to no one until you know you can trust them.

              [–]1oldredder 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              And similarly: if a true alpha male who is known as such decides to consciously step down from the mantle, isn't forced down but suddenly just "changes" just "gives up" (in their eyes, whatever his reasons) they will flip their fucking lids. The rest of the "tribe" around him expect him to fulfill his role and will not accept a choice was made to be "other" as if it was better. This is entirely different than being challenged by anyone & visibly failing and thus losing alpha status. That's not a choice.

              I get this on occasion when I'm actually challenged by women about relationships & I make it clear I haven't had a real LTR in over 12 years, I refuse to have another, I see no benefit in it to me and they are flustered. Near upset/disgusted. It's not just that I'm saying women I know (such as them) aren't good enough for me (they're not), it's that at some level they think I'm relationship material & are angered by the fact a man who can be... refuses to be by conscious decision.

              It's totally different to show need/lust/thirst and to be rejected because then it's not my choice. To make the choice ahead of time that pussy is fine, hot women are fine but relationships are poison/unhappy/not for me and to say so with 100% confidence grinds against the very fiber of the tribal-soul.

              I don't belong to the tribal soul, I belong to me.

              [–]a_chill_bro 5 points6 points  (11 children)

              We've all got some alpha in us by default. We're the descendants of millions of years of natural selection. We made it this far for a reason. Being alpha is a choice. Lift and become the man you really are and need to be.

              [–]Adolf_ghandi 4 points5 points  (0 children)

              smart girls don't like that

              Because men care about a woman's intelligence since stone age. /s

              [–]varisforge 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              Smart girls stop thinking when the tingles take over. We are all animals at some level. Make yourself the best goddamn animal you can be and then be the natural you on top of that.

              [–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              You can get too big, but the work required to get there is beyond most men, they simply don't have the time. You won't end up too big unless something extraordinary happens, or you juice. So go lift, because what follows is a warning, not something to aspire to.

              Also it's not about size, it's about symmetry and definition. I have a big chest, thick neck, big arms, and my legs are bigger than non obese waists, but my symmetry is fucked. I didn't get it in the gym, I got the mass from being worked almost to death for an entire year, and driven to exhaustion every day for the first five months.

              The chances of this happening to you are pretty much nil. I am an outlier, way out on the bell curve, and it is due to an extremely physical job in the military during a war. The only way most will get to my size or bigger, is with roids. It destroyed my knees, shoulders, and elbows. It's not a good way to go about it. I had no choice. They worked me harder because I could do more, and they thought I was lazy because I was very efficient.

              [–]p5ych0naut 4 points5 points  (1 child)

              I think you're full of shit. are you bodybuilding and lifting for your benefit, or for theirs? If you are only bodybuilding because you think "girls will like me if I do" then you are still a big fucking beta. people who say "be yourself and girls will come" are actually right. it should be as easy for you to get laid as a fat slob as it is being a beefcake. THAT'S fucking alpha.

              in fact, if you get all muscled-out you are more likely to look like a complete fucking tool and douchebag, rather than someone who is alpha. People who are overly concerned with their looks aren't masculine, they are a little pansy bitches. in fact, the future I foresee for you is this: you are going to work superhard building up your body and will do little to no work on your social interaction or the way you handle conflict. Eventually your body will make you feel more confident, and you will go out trying to score. Then, due to your complete lack of psychological alpha-ness, you are going to continue to strike out. A few months will pass like this, and in a year you will be just as lonely and depressed, only now you are going to be completely mindfucked because you will really not understand why you can't get laid. you would think to yourself, "I put all this effort into my body, and people still don't like me!" you'll probably swear women off entirely, claiming that they are just illogical, stupid creatures, and that there is no point in wasting any time on them. You'll start hitting on men, but they too will realize what a fucking beta you are, so really, nothing you do will work. your only hope is changing your own expectations of how other people should act, and changing the way you REact when you think you can use that reaction to mold other people's behaviors.

              seriously, it's people like you that give TRP and men'srights a bad name. You think being alpha is about displaying some kind of image to the world. You think it's about manipulation, and being disingenuous. You think it's about being inhumane, about discounting peoples feelings. That, if you just act a certain way, you will get everything you want. Being alpha has nothing to do with how you treat other people. It has to do with how you view life, how you choose to behave, how you choose to interpret things, and how you pick yourself up and continue fighting after failure. Ultimately, it's about being true to your self and to the fiber of your being, and not letting your disappointment with how people react to that, change the way you think, feel, and act.

              now, I'm sure a lot of people might post back, "I tried that and it doesn't work!" Well I'm sorry to inform you, but human beings are an incredibly varied species. Just because you tried being yourself and were unable to get laid, doesn't mean there aren't a whole host of women out there who like your personality type, and are just waiting for someone like you to come sweep them off their feet. People like this would fare far better in their game if instead of trying to change yourselves to fit what they expect women want, they instead expanded their pool of potential mates. far too often, they strike out a handful of times with women who are, more or less, the same, (because they go to the same school, hang out in the same social circles, grew up in the same place, or whatever), and assume that since all of their experience with women indicate that women are one way, that all women, the world over, must be that way.

              seriously, guys who find it difficult to get laid: GO OUT MORE. HANG OUT WITH DIFFERENT GROUPS OF PEOPLE. IF YOU FAIL, DONT CHANGE YOURSELF (unless that's what YOU want), CHANGE YOUR SAMPLE SIZE! (and if worse comes to worse, try moving to a different city, a different state, or even a different country. Hell, even visiting a foreign country can increase your chances for getting laid. Awkwardness and uncomfortability tend to disappear with a language barrier. in fact, everyone I have ever known who tried to get laid in a foreign country succeeded! I mean, here in America, our girls swoon and fall for foreigners all the time. Look at how much they love British accents!

              Anyways, dude, the takeaway is this: don't bother beefing yourself up unless that makes you feel good. Beefing up "to get laid" is a laughably stupid plan. All you need to do is stop trying to manipulate your way into girls pants, expand your social circles, and stop getting discouraged from trying to get laid just because you've failed so far.

              [–]sweatynut 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Be direct and get to the point.

              [–]NakedAndBehindYou 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              I once heard the "crab in the bucket" phenomenon explained like this: people don't like it when you change because as you change, the old ways in which they could manipulate you work less effectively.

              The more manipulative and narcissistic people are, the less they will want you to change at all.

              [–]FerrusMan 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              I hear you man. I've been unplugged for over a year (I'm in my mid forties), and what I've also noticed are some major huge fights with people close to me, as in related to me. I'm talking loud voices and lots of f bombs. Every one of them has been about me essentially telling them I'm not putting up with this lack of respect any more. Or if female, telling them I'm done with them unless they cut out the bullshit disrespect act. I'm not literally standing there saying "stop disrespecting me", but you get the idea.

              I agree, people want to keep you in your place. I guess it's just like a pack of animals, you are rising in the pecking order, and other animals don't like it. So the first attempt by you to rise higher, gets met with an over-reaction attempted slap down. I've learned to expect it now, and give back more than I get. Mostly it's about being ready to end the relationship unless they accept you.

              [–]Locastor 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              The general public's cluelessness about muscular hypertrophy is a source of unending comedy. You'll need some serious gear to "get big".

              [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              thats a good beginner attitude dude, but just make sure lifting doesnt revolve around validation because even though youre getting more attractive, it doesnt mean that sloots will trip and fall on your dick. This is only the beginning brah

              keep up the no bullshit attitude :)

              *oh and losing the virginity isnt a huge deal anyways just get lose it to a prostitute and see how its overrated.

              [–]TheCarm 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              hell yea im on Arnold's Blueprint right now, and its amazing!!! highly recommend

              [–]RedPill115 9 points10 points  (19 children)

              I suppose I'll get downvoted for this, but take a minute and look around at the most attractive girls you know, and who they're dating / sleeping with. It's easier to figure out who they're dating, but if you're part of a group you'll figure out both.

              What physical characteristics do those guys have? In my experience:

              Physical Things They Do Have:
              - Not fat
              - Skinny, or the "6 pack" look where they have muscles but not overly huge muscles

              Physical Things They Don't Have:
              - Very Strong, but kinda fat
              - Huge absurdly huge muscles

              The lifting crowd will try to convince you that there's no limit, but watch reality and there is. You're better off being overly ripped than being fat, but the ideal body type is somewhere between skinny and well defined.

              I've seen people try to shame people with "don't get that big" when they're just being a pain in the ass about you actually being in shape to. But like it or not, there is a point where having more visible muscle seems to reduce your SMV. Just look around sometime at bodybuilders girlfriends - in my experience, if you see a really ripped guy he's usually dating an average looking girl.

              [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (8 children)

              I won't downvote you but I don't share your experience on this at all. By my observation the only men pulling the most attractive girls I know are guys with serious muscle mass. Anybody close to what you might call bony is lucky to get a 7, unless they're in the "tall privilege" category.

              I live in the rural midwest. You'd think women wouldn't be that unobtainable here but the value of a skinny, only average-looking girl is so inflated its insane. If you're not ripped, very tall, or of high SMV then you better be OK with fucking chubby girls because thats all you're getting.

              [–]RedPill115 0 points1 point  (6 children)

              I won't downvote you but I don't share your experience on this at all. By my observation the only men pulling the most attractive girls I know are guys with serious muscle mass.

              Out of curiosity then, how would you describe the social scene where you're seeing this?

              Mine is:
              - Midwestern college
              - Social dancing - swing, blues
              - Friends from high school, other friends mostly from the middle class

              Anybody close to what you might call bony is lucky to get a 7, unless they're in the "tall privilege" category.

              I'm friends with a large variety of guys, in my experience with my groups it's good to be tall, and it's bad to be short. But the normal height guys get laid just as much (or little) as the tall guys. It's just that the tall guys stories are like "We went out together dancing", whereas the average guys stories are "I met her at dancing, she stopped by my place, we went out dancing somewhere were you don't go then came back to my place and watched a movie and fooled around".

              I've talked 2 guys (one of them was me) who are on the taller and good looking side, and there's a surprising amount of "...You guys definitely looked like you were going at it" responded to with "No, I'd think so to, but you know all that public flirting that was going on? That was it. We'd leave together, she's be like 'thanks!' with this big grin, jump out of the car like she was being chased and leave". Or for me a variation on "I don't want to ruin our friendship".

              I live in the rural midwest. You'd think women wouldn't be that unobtainable here but the value of a skinny, only average-looking girl is so inflated its insane. If you're not ripped, very tall, or of high SMV then you better be OK with fucking chubby girls because thats all you're getting.

              In live in a major city in the US. Dunno about rural areas.

              Are you talking about guys who look like A: http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/68/ac/61/68ac611758686cbb3bbdb116f90c3afc.jpg

              Or like B: http://funnymama.com/store/120415/79939_v0_600x.jpg

              I've never seen a place where guys like B are actually getting laid more. Guys like A, it's more debatable.

              [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              I can't see B because that site doesn't allow hotlinking but A is what you need to look like to pull the scarce few hot, thin women around here. Its the high school/rural community college scene.

              Can not wait until I can move to a more populated area where there are social opportunities like joining a dance club. If you can find something like that around here its going to be a 40 year old and up crowd.

              [–]RedPill115 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Unfortunately, the dance scene isn't nearly as popular as it used to be. I got into it when it was peaking, like 7 years ago or something. Still better than what you're describing, though, for the most part.

              All I have to add is that after making social connections with guys, their are a lot more guys sleeping with girls than you think. But it's only the guys who either look good or have high social popularity that you'd think are doing it. Girls are no less shallow than guys - they like to show off that they could get a piece of eye candy. More of those girls than you'd think are not sleeping with those guys (more than you'd think means more like 50% are, and 50% are not), and more of the less eye-candy guys are getting laid than you'd think, they just aren't out showing it off to everyone.

              The biggest player I know, you'd never know it from hanging out with him in public. You'd have to hang out at his house to see the stream of girls come through.

              [–]drallcom3 0 points1 point  (3 children)

              I've never seen a place where guys like B are actually getting laid more.

              They operate in different social scenes. Definitely not college educated swing dancing. More like highschool dropout nightclubs.

              [–]RedPill115 0 points1 point  (2 children)

              I'm not going to disagree with you, because you could be right and I don't know.

              But that's not the same as the constant claim that "women" as a large group always like more and more visible muscle. It's certainly true that what makes me attractive in college dancing scenes is very different than what would in other social groups.

              Women chase after social status, and that social status varies wildly. But in most common groups, it seems like there's a point where to much muscle does start to reduce your social status and smv.

              [–]drallcom3 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              Well, the B in that picture is a tasteless steroid monster. There's a point where you have too many muscles, not an easy thing to do, and you become a joke to the general population of women.

              [–]RedPill115 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Well that's only really my point. That there is some point where it becomes like that. Some people's body type could never reach that point, but many others could. (Though like I said if you do it's easy to get away from that - just stop lifting and the muscle will go away).

              [–]markasstrick123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Ahh, the suburbs. Fuck all that nonsense, people there are insane. Women there are hideous as well demanding Ryan gosling. Glad I got out of there.

              [–]AdviceTRP 5 points6 points  (1 child)

              There is a point where having more visible muscle seems to reduce your SMV.

              I agree with this to a degree. But I also think, at least for people not on steroids, you don't need to worry about it.

              I can't think of a single natural bodybuilder who has crossed the threshold into "too big". In reality, anyone here who pushes their body to it's natural limits along with maintaining a low bodyfat is never going to be "too big".

              [–]RedPill115 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              I don't keep up with the bodybuilding scene, but I think it's possible if you have a certain body type.

              I know I've seen some guys who could lift forever and never get into overly bulky muscles, while people with other body types seem to be able to develop them in a couple of months. I'm sorta in the second category - I started doing 5x5 felt like the visible muscle was growing to much. It just doesn't...fit my other features well. Dunno how to explain it really. Like if you ever watched Stargate (the tv show), the nerdy scientist character ironically looks pretty good with big muscles, whereas it's hard to imagine the lead guy (Richard Dean Anderson) not looking kinda weird with overly huge muscles.

              All I can add is that like I've said, when I go into the uptown area and see a lot of guys who are "ripped", they're so very often with girls who aren't ugly but aren't insanely attractive either.

              [–]antariusz 4 points5 points  (2 children)

              It's not so much that there is a limit to the type of women you can pull, as there is a limit to the amount that a man can push his body naturally, without steroids/testosterone/growth hormone.

              If you want bigger muscles, you'll have to settle with more fat. If you want bigger muscles AND less fat, you'll have to spend more time and effort on training and diet, and not everyone can bodybuild as a full-time job.

              edit: And we have a word for men who are able to spend a large portion of their life working on their bodies AND have great genetics, enough to be paid just for looking good... underwear models. Strive to look like an underwear model.

              [–]Gunnilingus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              The key is bulk/cut cycles. Go HAM in the gym and the kitchen for 12-16 weeks, gain 20-25 pounds, if you do it right then 60-70% of it will be muscle. Then you cut for 6 weeks and drop 15-20 pounds of fat and you're left the same as you were before but more ripped and 5 extra pounds of solid muscle. I've also noticed that you retain a significant portion of the strength you gained during the bulk after the cut, even though you're 15-20 pounds lighter, so after a few bulk/cut cycles you embarrass other dudes in the gym who are much bigger than you but can't match your strength.

              [–]MartialWay 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              Just look around sometime at bodybuilders girlfriends - in my experience, if you see a really ripped guy he's usually dating an average looking girl.

              Then you have a very unusual experience.

              The lifting crowd will try to convince you that there's no limit, but watch reality and there is.

              There is, but only a fraction of a percent of men would ever be "too big", and it's a silly thing to worry about 6 months into training.

              You're better off being overly ripped than being fat, but the ideal body type is somewhere between skinny and well defined.

              That's interesting, because when I walk by the romance novels in the grocery store, the guys on the cover are pretty yoked. As are many Hollywood stars nowadays.

              [–][deleted]  (2 children)

              [deleted]

                [–]RedPill115 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                Agree with your first comment.

                What you said is true, but kinda gets away from the point. Is your friend who's absolutely huge doing better with more women because of his size? Or does it not matter? Or does it seem to be a little bit of a drawback?

                [–]AbsoluteAltitude 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Those same people will either be gone from your life in a year, or be telling you how much better you look/act.

                [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Women in particular want men who already are, not realizing most of them had to be made (by themselves) for that to happen.

                [–]HaveSomeChicken 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Keep in mind that while bodybuilding and getting jacked is good for self-esteem and attitude, some intellectual activities would also benefit.

                Read as much as you can. Learn as much as you can. Work out as much as you can. Eat as much as you can. Build social relations as much as you can. Do that, and you will always have an edge and will succeed in life.

                [–]2RedPillSafe 1 point2 points  (10 children)

                I don't get it...

                • Why are you still a virgin?

                Probably the better question is:

                • How much will your appearance matter AFTER you get your first sex?

                Studies show that moderate muscle is "as good as it gets" for natural SMV and then your "game" (social abilities) will be the thing that increases your SMV above that.

                So basically you have:

                • Medium muscle build equals maximum natural SMV.

                • Social skills (game) either adds or subtracts from SMV.

                ...just don't focus entirely on your appearance.

                There are naturally tall and good looking (muscular) guys with no game that don't get women.

                [–]EurasianAesthetics 2 points3 points  (9 children)

                That's so untrue. Most great looking guys don't have to do anything. If you have model aesthetics you just don't need game at all. You just have to know how to open your mouth and respond or talk a little. Unless you're actually autistic, this isn't very difficult to do.

                [–]2RedPillSafe 2 points3 points  (7 children)

                I was just posting with a guy who was 6' 3" and 200 lbs who was lifting and ripped and he had no game and no women.

                Think of it this way...

                Women seek men who have commanding personalities. They sense confidence and social skill because those are traits of leaders.

                If you expect your appearance to be your entire SMV then you are lowering your potential because it's the "masculine mind" that they want, not just the looks.

                This guy is still a virgin. He ought to get laid and then come back and tell us where he wants to go next. We can improve his game after he gets "in the game".

                In effect he's MGTOW but with a delusion than Alpha just means muscles.

                Alpha is more than superficial.

                Often I encourage new beta converts to go MGTOW, but this guy seems "too comfortable" in his male vanity. He needs to get in the game and stop fantasizing about how he's going to look.

                (in other words he doesn't lack confidence, it's just that he's stuck on appearance)

                [–]EurasianAesthetics 2 points3 points  (6 children)

                Yeh, but how attractive is his face? That's the most important aspect by miles, not how tall or jacked he is. Unless he has a shit face, then your comment doesn't make any sense to me, because I see the exact opposite. I know a lot of introverted, boring, antisocial men who are 8+ /10 and they all have hot girlfriends.

                What I see with good looking men who don't have game is the woman actually sees this as a positive. She's like "ooh, he's not a player, he's not gonna go out there cheating on me, I can keep him to myself"

                [–]2RedPillSafe 0 points1 point  (5 children)

                We had at least two threads recently going the other way.

                Your SMV is defined by:

                • Your natural SMV with some benefit going to extra muscle. (appearance)

                • Your social skill in demonstrating confidence and leadership. (Alpha)

                ...it's the combination of these two that determines your overall SMV.

                An added wrinkle is the PUA techniques where people "fake it" and that can provide a temporary bump in SMV but that falls away if things go LTR where authentic frame holding masculinity is the most important.

                Appearance is just one of the factors.

                The "Alpha Core" is really an internal connection to your instincts. This leads to greater intuition and an amoral view of human interactions. So the "Alpha Core" is the self improvement side of Red Pill.

                [–]EurasianAesthetics 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                To a degree, but i've seen many many ugly dudes with heaps of game still relegated to the scrap heap when the hot guy just carries a normal conversation next to him. That's one thing I find so annoying in these communities is the almost exasperated efforts to denounce looks, it's not just about being the 'alpha' either. Most groups will have guys who don't lead the pack , but they're the most attractive and women always rorate towards them for sex, and the alpha for answers, but that's it. The ugly alpha dude might lead the group of 20 to the venue, but the hot guy is walking in the middle or back of the pack with 2 girls laughing with him.

                [–]2RedPillSafe 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                By numbers:

                • Hot Guy : Natural SMV 9 + Alpha SMV -1 + PUA 0 = SMV 8

                • Ugly Guy : Natural SMV 4 + Alpha SMV +2 + PUA +1 = SMV 7

                ...if the math is bad you won't win.

                [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                [deleted]

                  [–]2RedPillSafe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  The math is what it is... you are given the tools you are given and must use them wisely.

                  [–]EurasianAesthetics 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  You have to realise that a very good looking face, no matter how beta the male, will always release endorphins and feelings of wellbeing whenever a woman looks at said face. She just melts automatically by looking at him, it's science.

                  [–]Gunnilingus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Be careful - while you're right to an extent, you absolutely need confidence/game to get girls no matter what. I'm 6'2", 215, 8-10% body fat and fairly good looking, but when I was stressed out and depressed due to my work and family issues I went through a 5 month dry spell because my confidence was shot. In my opinion, the principal benefit of working out is not the fact that it makes you look good, but the fact that you know you look good. Women can sense when a man knows he's hot shit and they eat it up.

                  [–]kar3154 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  I have started rigorous self improvement. I can see my abs come in. I do a sport involving pulling my weight literally. (Swimming). I do not do lifting I do bodyweightfitness. It has changed my life for the better. I am happier, more confident, and I no longer take shit from people.

                  [–]OC_maybe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Please listen to this objectively. Being alpha does not mean being bigger and more aggressive, or being so self-assured that you can't discern the advice of those who truly care about you from those who are just jealous or want to boost themselves up through comparison. Its about being a leader of the pack, being the best version of yourself that makes people want to emulate their lives after the way that you live your life. If you want me to break it down for ya its this, Work out because why the fuck not be attractive energetic confident etc. but don't think that you are an alpha because you are big, you'll just become a beta that no one likes.

                  edit: phrasing

                  [–]SlipperyGrappler 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  True alpha is an athletic build like a wrestler or MMA fighter. Being huge and bulky makes you terrible in fights.

                  [–]scubar 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  True, I recently got an amazing potential job oppurtunity that is going to require me to move across the US. The amount of people that don't want me to make such an amazing leap is quite amazing. The Redpill really shows you that everyone truly is in it for themselves first.

                  [–]zerooneb166er 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Women are very averse to what they think is not genuine in a man. When you decide to improve yourself, she sees an incongruence between who you were and who you are trying to be. She is afraid of this, and there are a lot of good reasons for it.

                  1) If you are incongruent (which you are not, but this is how everyone will see it), then you are perceived to be dishonest. For a woman, this triggers her greatest fears about men. In her eyes you could hurt her or take advantage of her.

                  2) If you are not predictable, she can't make accurate calculations on your future behavior. This means she can't keep you in a little box and control you. Again, you are a threat. It's true that powerful and high value people are like this too, but you didn't start in a high value 'box'. You were in a low value box, and now you are coloring outside the lines. You are rebelling against the system, her system.

                  So continue to better yourself. My best advice is to read as much as you work out. The people who feel threatened by you will fall away, and will be replaced by people who get it just like you do.

                  [–]OnlySubsILike 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  I'm all for getting in shape and healthy and ripped and all, but I my opinion is that this sub constantly just says "get as huge as you can for the sake of it" and nothing else is acceptable. Maybe you're just really into swimming, triathlons, climbing, and other activities in which just "getting big" isn't productive. If you're short and you just pack muscle with no aim you end up just looking like gimli from lord of the rings. If that's what you want so be it, but seriously this sub is all about doing what makes you the best you you can be - EXCEPT when it comes to shit like this.

                  [–]Aphoc 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  "you don't need to get big, just be yourself and girls will come."

                  is like saying

                  "you don't need an education, your mother will always love you."

                  [–]masturbator9000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  I agree. There's a lot of people that are going to give you shit for bettering yourself, and that's usually when you find out who your true friends are. The ones that start making sarcastic remarks meant seriously about strength, your physique, your wealth - those are not your true friends. They hate that you're exceeding expectations and hate being surpassed.

                  Been lifting for almost a decade and everyone kept giving me shit for it at first. It starts with your parents telling you that you'll stop growing and mess up your back (ironically, at that point I was already one foot taller than both my parents). Women's reactions are the best though. "Don't get to big, masturbator9000. It won't look good". Fast forward a year and a few pounds of muscle on the scale - she creams her pants even more for you. Repeat every year.

                  They hate it because they fear you'll advance to the next league. Ignore them, do it anyway. Don't take it personal because you probably have areas in your life where you hate it too that someone else is advancing and leaving you behind.

                  [–]PolishHammerMK 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Yeah the people you know suck.

                  They've all been brainwashed with that shit, don't let them get you down, you're doing great.

                  Keep up the good work.

                  [–]Transmigratory 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  I noticed this too. More profoundly with two of my closest friends actually; one male and one female.

                  Male: he'll casually try to downplay alpha shit. Beta me would've complied, but RoA* me just shuts him down. You can see his beta hamster trying hard to "prove me wrong". Note: he's beta as fuck, too pussy to make moves with women he's interested in. Rationalises that my success is due to physical differences. Which IMO is bull as one of the most alpha guys I know doesn't have the physical gifts (height) that a school of RP thought idolises.

                  The female: believes I'm being an arsehole. Though upon hearing my conquests and other bits (i.e. me establishing frame) now she's all over me. But it conflicts with her disapproval. Though she's better than the guy, actually, because she's kind of more RP. Sorta but not quite.

                  *RoA=Road to Alpha... I decided to make "Alpha" an end goal, vaguely defined so I can always keep up the self development.

                  [–]BluepillProfessor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Rollo talks about the crabs in the barrel who prevent the enterprising crab from escaping by dragging him back.

                  Don't get dragged back.

                  I do agree that you don't necessarily want to look like a freackish body builder. At some point when you are healthy and in the top 5% of men in terms of muscles, abs, and build then you quickly reach a point of diminishing returns. Your efforts in the gym would be better spent reading, working on a new skill or any number of activities once you get to that point.

                  [–]2trway14 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  A woman does want you to become an alpha, but her genes and tingles make her feel that you're not a real alpha if she had to help. It only counts when you achieve despite all the bullshit that's thrown at you. Her subconscious wants to know: are you confident enough in your understanding of the world, and of women, that you know what she wants and needs better than she does herself?

                  In other words, women want to see you being strong and charming because that's who you really are, not because you're playing a character. It only generates tingles if it seems genuine, because only then does it say something about your genes.

                  For a very detailed discussion, see /r/TheRedPill/comments/2ct2sb/arch_feminist_tracy_clarkflory_cant_stand_that/cjixsgs

                  [–]crazydave1979 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  They are right.. You don't need to get big.. Getting ripped is where it's at.. Soon as the veins starting popping out on the arms I noticed a huge difference from the girls, even compared to when I used to be bigger

                  [–]Mudmen12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  how big do you plan on getting

                  [–]ThousandTruths 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Exactly. Most people are losers and hate to see when an underdog starts succeeding.

                  People around me where saying the same shit, but now admit that I look amazing.

                  [–]draketton 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Cypher mode is a real thing.

                  Some people are extremely immersed in, or indebted to, social and professional circles that want them to remain blue pill.

                  They can learn RP lifestyle from the internet or from their upbringing, gain a realistic understanding of the benefits of living life that way, and still consciously reject it because they need the support of these people who want them to remain blue pill.

                  [–]1rlh1271 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  True but people have serious misconceptions about lifting in general. Hell look at what the girls themselves say. "I don't want to lift weights because I don't want to get big." People think weightlifting = arnold sized motherfluffer. It's not at all easy to become body-builder sized. It takes years of dedication, commitment, proper diet and an adamant sleep schedule. Not to mention the know-how of proper lifts, macros etc. It's possible when you say you want to get big, they misconstrue that into: "I want to get to body-builder level in 6 months time."

                  [–]bama79rolltide 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Lift until it hurts. Then do one more set.

                  [–]GreatWalker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Fuck the haters, lift on bro

                  [–]Xstinaballerina 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I think you're reading too much into this. I know a body builder who is still very much a Beta male. The confidence aspect is everything, however. The thing is, a lot of girls do find too big unattractive. There are girls who love it, too. Just do what you are doing for yourself, and no one else- that in itself is more Alpha anyway.

                  [–]Subtletorious 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  But again the standard has shifted. Once slut meant any woman who had sex before marriage, now it means a partner count greater than 100.

                  The label is influential but no longer powerful, and women are masters at hamstering.

                  [–]johnbranflake 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  People told me the same shit, 50lbs later and those same people compliment my gains.

                  [–]hamstercide 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I've had the same happen to me. I've had people question my habit of working out and athleticism, my heroes (e.g. Elliot Hulse), my attitude towards cutting out all kinds of bad things, and other things I would rather not spend my time remembering. Keep forging ahead, maintain your resolve and cut out the toxicity from your life in any way you can. New people you meet will appreciate you. For whatever reason individuals of low character will try to keep you down, but in doing so they will reveal themselves for who they are. I've had the misfortune of being stuck in close proximity with a lot of these kinds of people (my roommate), the most important thing is [b]ignore them and don't take what they say to heart[/b]. If you attach yourself emotionally to them you will play into their sadism and only end up hurting yourself while giving them the higher position over you. Good luck!

                  "don't get that big its unattractive and smart girls don't like that"

                  Yeah ok mom. Because it's that easy to accidentally get too big. One time I woke up with a body like Schwarzenegger's and though "oh shit, I might have lifted a bit too much last time in the gym, better tone it down a bit".

                  [–]spartan1337 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  It should be common knowledge that girls dont like veiny roided up monsters, they prefer the ottermode, skinny but toned look, brad pitt in fight club, so if youre lifting for grills youre doing it wrong.

                  [–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Special exception: in a leaderless vacuum people will demand an alpha leader even from one unsuitable to do so if everyone else is even more unsuitable.

                  [–]HEADPOCKET 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I appreciate the sentiment but most of the meatheads I know are the most beta guys I've ever met.

                  [–]averagepidgin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I know exactly what you mean... I think ultimately what it's coming down to is that very old saying, "Be a man". I think really what's happening is that people like to be comfortable, and when there's a real man around, there's no tolerance for bullshit. So, what happens is that yea, they try to keep you where you're at. Undermined, the underdog, they're all "rooting" for you. But secretly, they just know and see the man-ness underneath, and the reason they say all that, is because they're scared. They're scared of the real man that is you.

                  [–]InterNetting 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  You don't need to look like arnold in his prime and in fact you really never will. Arnold is a true alpha male not only due to his amazing genetics but also due to his confidence, drive and success. You do, however, need to work out and get in shape and stay in shape. You need to fill out your chest and shoulders and arms, achieve a slim waist with visible abs and adonis belt. Having said that, does the statue of David satisfy all of those conditions? Yes, it does, and you'd be hard pressed to find any woman who sees you looking like that thinking you're anything but a fucking stud.

                  [–]zerooneb166er 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Women are very averse to what they think is not genuine in a man. When you decide to improve yourself, she sees an incongruence between who you were and who you are trying to be. She is afraid of this, and there are a lot of good reasons for it.

                  1) If you are incongruent (which you are not, but this is how everyone will see it), then you are perceived to be dishonest. For a woman, this triggers her greatest fears about men. In her eyes you could hurt her or take advantage of her.

                  2) If you are not predictable, she can't make accurate calculations on your future behavior. This means she can't keep you in a little box and control you. Again, you are a threat. It's true that powerful and high value people are like this too, but you didn't start in a high value 'box'. You were in a low value box, and now you are coloring outside the lines. You are rebelling against the system, her system.

                  So continue to better yourself. My best advice is to read as much as you work out. The people who feel threatened by you will fall away, and will be replaced by people who get it just like you do.

                  [–]jamesez501 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I can easily relate to this. I have a friend who gets butthurt when I don't want to go get food with him because it's unhealthy and a monetary waste, same with drinking. Any time I refuse when he asks me about it I'm a "dick". Fuck em all dude. They're mad because they can't help themselves.

                  [–]zerooneb166er 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Women are very averse to what they think is not genuine in a man. When you decide to improve yourself, she sees an incongruence between who you were and who you are trying to be. She is afraid of this, and there are a lot of good reasons for it.

                  1) If you are incongruent (which you are not, but this is how everyone will see it), then you are perceived to be dishonest. For a woman, this triggers her greatest fears about men. In her eyes you could hurt her or take advantage of her.

                  2) If you are not predictable, she can't make accurate calculations on your future behavior. This means she can't keep you in a little box and control you. Again, you are a threat. It's true that powerful and high value people are like this too, but you didn't start in a high value 'box'. You were in a low value box, and now you are coloring outside the lines. You are rebelling against the system, her system.

                  So continue to better yourself. My best advice is to read as much as you work out. The people who feel threatened by you will fall away, and will be replaced by people who get it just like you do.

                  [–]zerooneb166er 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Women are very averse to what they think is not genuine in a man. When you decide to improve yourself, she sees an incongruence between who you were and who you are trying to be. She is afraid of this, and there are a lot of good reasons for it.

                  1) If you are incongruent (which you are not, but this is how everyone will see it), then you are perceived to be dishonest. For a woman, this triggers her greatest fears about men. In her eyes you could hurt her or take advantage of her.

                  2) If you are not predictable, she can't make accurate calculations on your future behavior. This means she can't keep you in a little box and control you. Again, you are a threat. It's true that powerful and high value people are like this too, but you didn't start in a high value 'box'. You were in a low value box, and now you are coloring outside the lines. You are rebelling against the system, her system.

                  So continue to better yourself. My best advice is to read as much as you work out. The people who feel threatened by you will fall away, and will be replaced by people who get it just like you do.

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Dude you're gonna lift and get huge accidentally. People are going to mistake you for an IFBB pro in like two more months.

                  [–]BhiQ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  To be fair, most intelligent girls, don't really prefer a body builder type because it implies you're spending too little time on intellectual activities I guess.

                  HOWEVER the added looks and confidence are definetly worth it, just make sure you don't go to the gym over everything else - A balanced life is important too.

                  [–]KingMinish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  My mother thinks its great that I'm lifting, she tries to show me off to friends. Its weird.

                  Its also really nice to have a supportive family.

                  [–]thecuntselor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I disagree. When I started to get my shit together I got comments like "you seem to know now how things work" from guys I consider to be alphas. I think I got their respect when I started to be a real man instead of a whiny beta.

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  becoming an alpha is not all about bodybuilding. read, study and learn shit.

                  [–]Mrmanbackman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  gaining muscle is good but just make sure you don't gain too much. you should build muscle in relation to your bone structure and size.

                  [–]RedRisingHood 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Smart women still like muscles - can confirm

                  One thing, once you have established your frame as an Alpha, don't say how you were Beta and read articles online etc and changed. The one thing the girls will hate is the idea that it wasn't genetic, you were the invincible winner from birth and not one fuck was given

                  [–]VarsitySlutTeamCpt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Funny thing is that theres a post about OP whining how an alpha douchebag knows several languanges and has PHD, crab mentality bro

                  [–]_psylock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  What they partly mean is don't get so big you look like some monster or orc, that's really unattractive. But what you said about them wanting you to stay a beta so they can weed you out easier is totally true.

                  [–]Ragu35 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Gains goblins always tryin to steal those gains!

                  I went through the same thing. Everybody making fun of me for going to the gym. Just keep pushing forward. They're just jealous.

                  [–]lurking_got_old 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I'm super late to the game here but you need to take a hard look at these "friends." If one of my friends started to work out and noticeably try to improve himself I would do nothing but pump him up and even join in. I've had friends like what you're describing in the past and it's toxic. Every improvement you make somehow hurts them and they try to knock you down.

                  Keep up the good work and try to cultivate friendships that pull you forward instead of holding you back.

                  [–]1whatsazipper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  People are really put off by discipline. A consistent, perseverent work ethic is an anomaly and people often fall into two categories. They find it threatening and try to tear you down, or they find your style contagious and follow you.

                  Overall, people fantasize about "the natural", "the genius", "the prodigy": Accomplishment without putting in any effort. This is exceptionally rare and for all intents and purposes useless. Even if you have a good genetic foundation, most men have to put in substantial work in order to cut their way to the top. That goes for any activity with which discipline yields results.

                  [–]drqxx 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  People want you to do well.

                  Just not better than them.

                  Onward to glory!

                  [–]derkonigistnackt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I'm 5'10 and 155, in school I was 127... even though I'm around 10% bf and I've been doing martial arts and lifting since I'm 20, my oldest friends and my family tell me the stupidest shit ever ("you are fat", "you look like Johnny Bravo", "you are going to look like a jock without a neck"). If you study too much or work too hard people will call you obsessive,... fuck 'em. This has nothing to do with alpha or not, I refuse to be mediocre.

                  [–]1TrainingTheBrain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  This is something you will face across the board of life’s endeavors.

                  LIFTING

                  When I started Lifting I got the same nonsense as you. I don’t need to lift weights, follow intermittent fasting, or stop eating a shit ton of processed bullshit food.

                  REASON

                  They didn’t like my decision because it put their lifestyle in the light and made them reflect on their shitty health choices.

                  WORK

                  When I was in the military and was the one always volunteering to stay late to get the job done and skipping breaks to assist my guys so they could learn their job as well as having someone on hand who knew what was going on I was called a kiss ass. This was coming from the guys who lived in the office, under the boss’s desk.

                  REASON

                  They hated because the guys respected and followed me. They knew their laziness caused them to lose face with the troops; their only response was a petty attempt to get me to feel as though my actions to outwork them were weak. Results speak for themselves.

                  BIG DECISIONS

                  I've decided my next vehicle is going to be a Wrangler, a car I've always wanted, as opposed to a Civic which is considered more ‘practical’ I've been called irresponsible and impractical.

                  REASON

                  Whenever you do anything that someone else wishes they could do, they hate.

                  Our society is geared towards beta males that make decisions based on the consensus of those around them.

                  CONCLUSION

                  Be the ALPHA, make decisions for yourself and stick with them. To be honest, the times when people are talking shit are probably the times where you’re doing it right.

                  Edit: Spelling

                  [–]enjoythesurface 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  The funniest thing about all those people is they're the first to compliment you when you reach your goals. I had a girl I was attracted to before I got big say the same thing and I never got her in bed. Low and behold, I put on 20 lbs of muscle and she was the first lay I had after I reached my goal.

                  [–]john-b 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I'm physically handicapped, but been lifting steadily 6 days a week for two weeks now. Had an overweight woman I know scoff at the fact that I lift & that I take protein powder. I was shocked.

                  Going to the gym is half the battle on self improvement, every behemoth fat girl I see there I instantly respect, they're at least taking action.

                  I will say however I'm annoyed at most of the girls that go there. You know the ones i'm talking about. They purposely wear tight yoga pants, some of them so thin you can see their thong up the ass as they do squats.

                  I goto the gym to improve myself, not to be active in gaming chicks. It's a bit distracting.

                  [–]Trengingigan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Keep improving your life. We do want you to become better :)

                  [–]evilassaultweapon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  You're on the path to beat my life's path by a year. Keep it up!

                  [–]DarkSayed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  People don't judge themselves in absolute terms, they judge themselves relative to their social circle.

                  [–]bat_mayn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  It's hard when it is your own flesh and blood keeping you down or doubting you. But all you have to do is stay strong, and they will have no choice but to respect it - unless they are a festering malignant narcissist.

                  [–]NotReallyEthicalLOL 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  You'll probably lose your old friends as you improve. It's a symptom of humanity.

                  [–]fuckwithpurpose 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I'm starting to be very quiet about all the self improvement I am doing, and I believe I am getting along far better with people as a result. I know part of it is I've already cut out a lot of the cancer so the average is better, but new people seem to enjoy the mystery and actionable trickle truth of self improvement more than just progress updates and factual explanations. I don't know what you're talking about with people, but try going stoic if you're not and see how their reactions change.

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  yeah you are totally getting that big by just starting out... how about SS+gomad tho? could you pull it off do you think?

                  [–]squareball 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I know this is an old post, but maybe you'll read it so what the hell: it takes YEARS to get big. And not even that -- if you stay natural you will be limited by your genetics which probably means you won't turn into a huge guy anyway.

                  [–]FrogDie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  There's a heart of truth in being 'too big', but that takes a LOT of working out.