TL;DR: Daughter's new BP boyfriend wants my marriage blessing. I show him a formula for a happier marriage and life, but he isn't interested. Shortly thereafter his behavior causes my daughter to lose interest.
Following up from an earlier post, I’m sharing the story of “the proposal talk” I had with my daughter’s boyfriend.
My 21YO daughter, Jill (not her real name) met a boy online shortly before Labor Day. Their relationship heated up really quickly and within a couple of weeks she saw him as her future husband. Mark (not his real name) is in the Navy, and really head-over-heels for her. It’s immediately clear to me that she sees him as an express-ticket out of our house and an ideal wallet for her baby-making plans. It is even clearer to me that he is a BP as BP gets and has no idea what really is happening in this relationship.
The turning point:
So around the middle of November things are really heating up. Jill is busy making plans and her school work is suffering. She is going “all-in” on this guy and I learn he has already bought a ring. To make matters worse, she has absolutely no respect for the guy; not that he earned any. He spends every available moment with her, and no time with his friends. When he isn’t around her physically, it is a constant stream of “I love you” texts with expectations for the same.
So one fine evening in November, he starts talking to me about getting my “marriage blessing”. He knows my concerns about the pace of this relationship, but she wants to know I’m onboard before he proposes so he brings is up... Completely unscheduled in our living room with the whole family around. After a couple minutes of him going on about how he will be an amazing provider, loves my daughter, and plans to give her everything she could ever want in life, I stop him in his tracks and tell him to get his jacket on; we are going outside to talk.
So I tell Mark that he is not demonstrating value or leadership in this relationship. “Jill walks over you, and you simply take it.” I say to him “I want my daughter and future grandchildren to be in a happy family, and that requires a happy husband. Your inability to take a leadership role, show high value, or maintain frame makes it clear to me that one day soon you will wake up frustrated and miserable.”
I go on to compare it to his Navy job…
“At work when new recruits show up, your frame has to be solid; you have to know your shit and be on your A game. The new recruits and your superiors will smell weakness and your respect will tank” … “It’s no different here, Mark. You have to be the leader in this relationship. You have to set the tone and bring her into your frame of reality.”
Considering his background, I sympathize with him and offer a recommendation –
“Mark, you have had a hard hand dealt to you growing up, and for the most part you have played your hand well. BUT, you have not had decent male role models and that left you with a gap when it comes to some key life lessons. Im the dad of the girlfriend, so essentially this really isn’t my place. But whether it is for this relationship or some other down the road, you need to get over the Nice Guy approach dominating your life. I recommend reading No More Mr Nice Guy. There are some insights in that book that would help you considerably. “
With that, I let him know that when he can consistently display leadership and high value with my daughter, then the marriage will have my blessing.
Fast-forward to this weekend:
Three weeks passed, and no changes at all. I told Jill that our conversation was confidential, but I would let her know about the NMMNG book and encouraged her to read it too. She later reported to me that he had forgotten entirely about that book until she mentioned it.
That statement was made in a midnight “I cant take this anymore” moment from her. She is so done with this sappy, clingy, needy, manner-less, excuse-prone joke of a man. Once the floodgates opened, she went on for hours about how many decisions she makes in the relationship and how she can’t see a day when she can rely on him for money matters, or just about any other key decision in their marriage. It was a complete-and-total meltdown. At one point my wife explained about how she appreciates knowing key components of our marriage are just handled and she doesn’t need to think about it. My wife actually used the terms “alpha” and “beta”. Jill blurted out that she wished Mark was the Alpha like I am. HOLY SHIT – My daughter referred to me as the Alpha!! I decided to play a Youtube audio expert from Rational Male – “You cant negotiate desire”. It was like someone turned on a light bulb in Jill’s head.
So, Mark is about out the door and we all learned some pretty valuable lessons during this experience. For my part the lesson arrived nearly too late:
BE THE KIND OF MAN YOU WANT YOUR DAUGHTER TO MARRY. If you aren’t that man now, decide what needs to change so you become that man. An extension to that is BE THE MAN KIND OF MAN YOU WANT YOUR SON TO BE IN HIS MARRIAGE.
I was never BP-Beta as Mark, but I was a long LONG way from Alpha. With the sincerest appreciation possible, I thank the creators / moderators of this forum and Rollo for masculinity information and support. It almost arrived too late.
EDIT - Removed the link to "RedPill awakening is contagious" post because it breaks a rule here.