all 187 comments

[–]DaegobahDan 48 points49 points  (70 children)

Some of these links have terrible advice. Wall Street Oasis is a bit of a joke.

[–]JeromeMorrow13 19 points20 points  (13 children)

This. The signal to noise ratio is wayyy too high and I suspect a lot of people are posers/students. If you're interested in a certain field, then seek out people/alumni and get first-hand info.

Edit: Source: I'm a NYC finance guy.

[–]DaegobahDan 15 points16 points  (7 children)

I worked in retail banking in New York. I had many opportunities to meet some of the people that worked on for trading firms and finance firms. They were universally below average intelligence jagoffs that were very ambitious and hard working. None of them were exactly critical thinkers. They followed the script; they stepped on the necks of everyone in their way without a second thought; they got very rich. They were also generally pretty miserable. Working 110 hours a week tends to do that to you.

[–]analrapeage 1 point2 points  (6 children)

I will be working in i-banking this summer. Almost universally the people I have met in the recruiting process have been incredibly smart and very social. It attracts high-quality people, not sure where you got that impression from. Can they be arrogant and inconsiderate? sure, but no more so than others, in my limited experience.

[–]2alisonstone 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I-Bankers are definitely above average intelligence, because the good firms only recruit from certain target schools (ex. Harvard). But within the elite schools, they are usually not the best of the best in terms of raw intelligence and creativity. Those guys usually end up on the buyside immediately (which is where most investment bankers want to go in the long run) if they decide to go into finance (others go into science related fields, etc).

But at the end of the day, who cares? Investment banking is not as intellectually difficult as rocket science or encryption algorithms. Everybody knows that. They don't need someone with that type of intelligence. They need someone who can work 100 hours and someone with the correct set of social skills. A lot of people hate on bankers saying "Well, I am an engineer and the stuff I do requires more intelligence!". I think it is jealousy at play. Because the bankers became bankers to get paid, not to do intellectually stimulating work.

[–]reckttt 1 point2 points  (2 children)

So don't know anything about investment banking at all, but I was wondering why you need to work 100 hours a week? I always thought it was a 8-5, M-F job.

Also, are the hours that crazy at hedge funds and other market analysis jobs?

[–]2alisonstone 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Investment bankers "work" 100 hours a week because they are at the mercy of their clients. They are not grinding all 100 hours non-stop. The they have surges of work at erratic times. For example, a manager might fly to California to try to find some business. After a meeting ends at 5pm Pacific time, he sends an email to his analysts in New York telling them that the CEO of some tech company wants information on a certain company because he is considering buying it. Now, the analysts are scrambling at 8pm Eastern time to put together all the information, verify it is correct, etc, so they end up working until 2am in the morning. They're expected to be in the office at maybe 9am the next day in case different clients are visiting the main office, and you can't have all these empty cubicles around. It is somewhat similar to a firefighter's job where you don't know when the fires will break out, so you have to always be ready to go. You don't know when some CEO or rich guy will call, but when he does you have to be ready to go into crunch mode immediately and get a lot of work done by the next day.

I work at a hedge fund and I pretty much just work from 9-5. However, I do often find myself thinking about work when I am not in the office and if I have a moment of inspiration and come up with a great idea, I would work on it even though it is not my normal work hours. It may vary from fund to fund though. For most hedge funds, there is no real need to have very strict hours unless they are a trading firm that trades a lot during market hours. If it only takes you 30 hours to come up with great investments that make money, then you are doing better that someone who puts in 100 hours.

Overall, I find that most finance people exaggerate the difficulty of their jobs, because they know better. On this anonymous board, I am willing to say that I get paid a ridiculous amount of money for the little work that I do. But in public, I'll say that I work my ass off for 60+ hours a week. If I say otherwise, people will start thinking that they have the right to molest me because they think that I am cheating the system.

[–]reckttt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the great reply. Would you recommend a career in the hedge fund industry? I like math and from what I know working as an analyst for a hedge fund pays very well. But I have also heard it is really stressful, especially if your investments are not doing so well. Also, is the environment like that in the wolf of wall street?

[–]DaegobahDan 1 point2 points  (1 child)

In my experience broker-traders in retail outfits are very nice and very intelligent. It's the dudes that work the trading desks and on the floor of the exchanges that are the assholes. I do agree that they are almost universally very sociable, however. YMMV.

[–]analrapeage 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Brokers in general aren't smart--their job is almost purely sales. Traders on the other hand are all intelligent--thats the chief requirement of their job. Bankers are neither traders nor brokers, but have both sales and intelligence in their job description. But very few people, especially at the top firms, aren't intelligent. The interview process simply makes it too difficult and the competition is too great.

[–]garlicextract 4 points5 points  (1 child)

The signal to noise ratio is wayyy too high and I suspect a lot of people are posers/students.

You mean it's way too low. You want a high SNR.

[–]JeromeMorrow13 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Numerator/Denominator mix-up :D Most posts on WSO are crap.

[–]17 Endorsed ContributorWhisper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Concur. People with valuable advice don't spend their time writing guides on the internet. People who write pages of stuff on the internet are either

  • Poseurs seeking to give themselves a warm narcissistic glow.

  • Theorists with nothing better to do.

  • Compulsive explainers who prize the act of analysis solely for the enjoyment they personally derive from it.

Real players in sales and on Wall Street are none of these things. Most of them can most likely barely send email, much less have an internet presence. If you are a software engineer, you can get tons of good advice about how to do better work, and manage your career better, by reading the internet. If you are a salesman, or a stockbroker, or a finance guy, forget it. You have to get your mentoring in person.

[–]robostanleys -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

The Harvard Business School one is good I think, though not a lot of technical information. The "Concise Guides to Best Paying Careers" is something I wouldn't even wipe my ass with.

[–]liveyourselfhappy 1 point2 points  (54 children)

Agreed. I make more money than 97% of the population and I didn't even go to college. A clear path and hard work will trump any other advice in my opinion.

[–]DaegobahDan 13 points14 points  (51 children)

Absolutely. But I do think that people put waaay too much emphasis on money and income in this sub. To be in the top 50% of earners you only need to make $34k. The top 25? $68k The top 10%? $114k. The top 5%? $160k.

$160,000 will put you in the top 5% of all incomes in the US. It's really not that much. Dudes act like you need to make 250k at a minimum. It's a joke.

[–]liveyourselfhappy 3 points4 points  (9 children)

I couldn't agree with you more. I make a lot of money but being wealthy will not increase your self worth if you are lacking in other area's (woman, healthy friendships, achieving goals etc.). I'd honestly say I'd rather make 100k a year and be happy with my life and the path I'm working on than the other way around.

[–]DaegobahDan 6 points7 points  (7 children)

100k is still near the top 10%. Could you be happy only making $34k? That's a different story.

[–]_JustKnight_ 3 points4 points  (1 child)

In a similar situation, from what I've seen in Canada I'd have to go below 60K for it to start affecting my SMV.

[–]DaegobahDan 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Money doesn't affect your SMV. It affects your RMV. Unless you are so poor that you literally can't afford to buy presentable clothes, it's not going to make any difference. Remember, it's Beta Bux, not Alpha Bux.

[–]liveyourselfhappy 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Haha probably not. But thats more to do with hard work and dedication. If I was putting in the hours and only making 34k I'd be disappointed in myself for not better managing my life. I enjoy being able to buy the things I want, when I want. My hard work gets me there and if it wasn't I'd find a way it could.

In saying that though, I understand that some people perhaps put a lot of time into non profits and volunteer work. I'm not one of those individuals. If your happy making 34k and are using your time constructively to achieve your goals (not always money orientated obviously) than all the power to you because your living your dream.

[–]Hatorader 0 points1 point  (1 child)

What the hell do you guys do?

[–]pTymN 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've been programming since I was 8. I am a career programmer. I work very hard to expand my skillset, present myself well when pursuing opportunities, consistently produce quality code, follow the process and guidelines and keep documentation up to date, help anyone else in the company who needs technical help, and keep a positive upbeat attitude every day. I also get to work from home and be with my dog.

I started out in small companies in crammed offices doing shitty work for half a decade before it started becoming even a little good. I actually enjoy the act of solving the puzzles in my work.

[–]Ebenezer_Wurstphal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

very damn happy making 34k as a PhD student. Without a car and other obligations, that money is more than enough to meet one's needs

[–]neopet 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Very true, you have to play the long con in every aspect of life.

Depending on work I make roughly 130k a year, but since I'm so new in my field I have to put in serious time and move around at the drop of a hat. I'm on the tail end of a 14 day shift and in a few short days I'll be moving across the province to work a 21 day shift.

I had to make the call yester day whether I was going to take the extra long shift or fly back to my home city and party with my friends and 3 plates I set up over the holidays. It was a tough decision, and I might lose the attention of the girls after 8 weeks of being off working, but I feel my career should come first while its in it's infancy.

This certainly is not sustainable for any sort of a full filling life though. Money isn't everything.

[–]busyalterego 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I don't think you're considering cost of living. $160k in New York != $160k in Alabama.

[–]DaegobahDan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm not trying to make the case that $160k will go just as far in NYC as other places. Far from it. But that doesn't change the fact that $160K is the cutoff to be in the top 5% of all earners.

I didn't make the point before, but I will now: If you are like the 11 out of 12 Americans that DON'T live in NYC or San Francisco, $160k is PLENTY enough to "live comfortably." The insinuation I have often seen reported here is that you need to shoot for $250k or higher in order to be alpha. That's just not reasonable. If being alpha is being the "top 20 percent" (which it isn't, but some people still say that) then you really should only be shooting for like $75k.

[–]yougonnagetit 3 points4 points  (35 children)

Depends where you're from. If youre in rural Tennessee maybe 100k is living large. Where I'm from you can't live here comfortably if you have under 150k household income. And I'm on the relatively less wealthy side of town. A single family home runs 600+, and the ones under 800k are unimpressive.

And income/profession matters. If you're in a field that's highly respected you've gained SMV before even stepping into the room.

[–]DaegobahDan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"Comfortably" is the key word. Income does tend to cluster around big cities, but less than 5% of workers make more than $160k. Chances are it won't be you.

[–]2Red_August 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, there is a massive difference in the cost of living in a world capital vs. Everytown. You have the advantages of living in a city which are truly significant should your tastes be developed, or varied but housing is truly a nightmare, and frankly the whole cost of living. The pussy is great too, of course. There's a real, and significant price to pay to be, and feel in the centre of it all however - this is not to be neglected. Young people starting off on their careers working ridiculous number of hours often don;t walk away in their mid thirties with any real collateral - experience and/or monetary. It's a difficult choice often, and one doesn't always have every option open to them. It would be wise to seriously consider one's path, and reevaluate it along the way, and make the hard decisions as necessary. That's my best advice - you need to be precise. I've lived through it, and it paid off but frankly i also realise that a large part of it i dare admit was luck. People will always rationalise their decisions after the fact.

[–]DaegobahDan -1 points0 points  (31 children)

Also depends on respected by whom. My field is very highly respected in the halls of true power, but most people think its boring and it doesn't ever win me points in a SMP context. A field like being a doctor will be respected by more people but is far less likely to have your opinion taken seriously when it comes to setting national policy.

[–]GabeTheImpaler -3 points-2 points  (30 children)

halls of true power You've been watching too much House of Cards. The only thing that gets the gears of politics moving is money, and money is concentrated in wall street, so people don't give a fuck about poli-ticks because they represent the interests of corporations, not the people. Fuck, even in a fantasy show about politics, the main protagonist has to convince the audience that politicians wield true power as he rails against his coporate overlords. "When the tits that big, everyone gets in line"

Doctors are respected because we are the last skill profession that gets paid well. On top of that the vetting process to become a physician is beyond anything you will ever experience.

Something redpill guys have to deal with is acceptance. Most guys live in delusion, they wanna say hey, things aren't the way they are because of this or that, when you can easily explain shit most of the time. Doctors are respected more than bureaucrats because it's harder to become a doctor and you have to be smarter to become a doctor, the end. If you want you can get mad at that fact, you can whine, you can bitch but that doesn't help you.

You can get mad, you can bitch that the top 20 percent of men get all the pussy, that a massive percentage of that 20 is doctors, or you can get your ass in gear and start doing something about the fact you are not there yet.

[–]DaegobahDan 4 points5 points  (15 children)

you have to be smarter to become a doctor

No. You just have to have a good memory and the ability to read dry medical texts for 60 hours a week.

Also, being a doctor doesn't get you laid because you are an alpha. It gets you beta bux fucked. Women want doctors because of the lifestyle they will have, period. Anything beyond that is 100% due to the man himself, and has nothing to do with his profession. The same skills that will make you a good doctor will make you a good corporate lawyer or an engineer or a stockbroker.

[–]GabeTheImpaler 1 point2 points  (7 children)

The same skills that will make you a good doctor will make you a good corporate lawyer or an engineer or a stockbroker.

Do you think the inverse can be said for any of those professions? I'll give you a hint, absolutely not. If you think that reading dry academic texts for 60 hours a week is what it takes to become a physician, you just don't understand what it takes to join the elite in America.

When you have a patient coding, he is getting wheeled into your OR and all you have to go off is that his blood pressure is dropping like a rock, you tell me if that is just your ability to memorize shit. You don't spend 4 years and then another 7-8 reading textbooks, you spend it integrating knowledge from EVERY FUCKING SCIENCE FIELD(yeah that includes physics) and then applying it practically. There is a reason we technically start getting trained in fucking high school.

Whatever field you are in I'm pretty sure you can get into it with a GED.

[–]DaegobahDan 1 point2 points  (6 children)

you just don't understand what it takes to join the elite in America.

My father and his brother are both doctors. He didn't go to medical school until I was in kindergarten. I know exactly what it takes because I watched him make all the sacrifices. He's happy with it. I decided it wasn't for me.

Also all doctors are surgeons now? That family practice doctor making $150k a year is totally going to do some emergency surgery on that "coding" toddler, eh? You are so full of shit, it is hilarious.

Do you think the inverse can be said for any of those professions?

Yes. Yes I do.

EVERY FUCKING SCIENCE FIELD

including sociology? Wow. I'm super impressed. What about herpetology and astronomy? How about theoretical particle physics? What about BOTANY? Squeee! You are the coolest person I know!

[–]MCrazyHorseInvincible[M] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

No pissing contests. We are here to analyze what goes into social dominance, not struggle for it. Two weeks in the penalty box.

[–]MrMontage 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Actually Sociology is a premed requirement now so I guess yeah.

[–]GabeTheImpaler 0 points1 point  (3 children)

including sociology? Wow. I'm super impressed. What about herpetology and astronomy? How about theoretical particle physics? What about BOTANY? Squeee! You are the coolest person I know!

I guess I needed to spell out the major branches for you. I shouldn't have expected anything more.

I know exactly what it takes because I watched him make all the sacrifices.

Have you lived it? No? Ok, well then you have no idea and will never come close to it. There is no such thing as by proxy genius.

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        [–]DaegobahDan 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        Doctors are respected more than bureaucrats because it's harder to become a doctor

        Counting senior executive and judicial branch positions, there's only about 1000 spots in politics with real sway in the grand scheme of things. There are about 1 million physicians in the US. It's a lot harder to become a big time politician than it is to become a doctor.

        Also, even if you assume that every single doctor in America counts as alpha, they would still only make up 3.2% of the "top 20". In short, far from "massive". But if you want, we can all still pretend doctors are super-duper special to make you feel better.

        [–]GabeTheImpaler 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        It's not harder, you just have to be in with the right circles. Look at the facts man, IQ, average pay, attrition rates, doctors get vetted one thousand times harder and we get respected for it. Fuck, if I was to go to a party with a senator somewhere in his head he would know he is just a wig and a constituency whereas I am the sum of all practical scientific knowledge in practice.

        The 1000 spots are playing a role, like an actor. You wouldn't call taylor swift a musical genius, she got the role because she fills a cliche. You cannot compare the two professions, because one makes a difference, while the other is just a bunch of soulless middlemen.

        [–]DaegobahDan 0 points1 point  (10 children)

        Also, politicians do hold a vast amount of the power, that's why they are lobbied by Wall Street and not the other way around. That being said, my profession is very well respected on Wall Street as well, since every single bank and large investment firm has at least a few of us in senior staff positions. But good for you, jumping to conclusions.

        [–]GabeTheImpaler 1 point2 points  (9 children)

        Politicians are indentured servants, you do what the money tells you to do, or you are out of your job. They are not respected, they are laughed at, because you are just a paper pusher for the men with actual power. You are literally their bitch your entire life, while the rich boys play with their yachts and bark at you to vote for a bill. This is why the entire nation laughs at anyone in politics. Stop being so goddamn delusional, there is a reason the public opinion is ultra negative towards people in politics. When was the last time you heard a dad tell a kid to become a politician. Never, everyone knows they are leeches on society.

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          [–]GabeTheImpaler 0 points1 point  (7 children)

          Well I know for a fact that you are not one of those sought after politicians, because you are most likely sitting at home with a light cheeto dust covering your pubes. And no, that is not real power, the second your corporate overlord whips you and tells you to get into your gimp suit you will run scurrying into the shadows. There are no bills that wall street doesn't want passed, only tactical long term moves.

          [–]qwerty622 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

          i believe he's talking about single earners. household income is a bit different.

          [–]watersign 0 points1 point  (2 children)

          lol..if you live in the bay area or tri-state..you need to make 250k to raise a family in a decent area, IMO.

          [–]DaegobahDan 2 points3 points  (1 child)

          Household income though. Most of the people living in those decent areas are not 1 earner households.

          [–]watersign 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          i live in a high income area and make alittle over 60k. with obongocare and high cost of rent, im not exactly rolling in the dough. im getting out of here as soon as i get a new job in another state..these areas are dead ends unless you're working in banking or you're a "full-stack developer"

          [–]SWABteam 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Well hard work and kissing ass. fact is to get anywhere in life you will have to swallow your pride and not act like a fool everyone someone "disrespects you". Keep your head down, work your ass off and you will be rewarded.

          [–]tony_douglas 97 points98 points  (20 children)

          Some good stuff here, but I would take WSO with a huge grain of salt. I recently lost my job from a bank so I have the time to respond to a reddit post. Most people who are actually working dont have even 5 minutes to write a post, much less the 30-45 minutes this post likely took. WSO tends to be full of college kids and wannabes so it has a lot of manosphere overlap without the best credibility.

          I'll also add that I worked 2 different jobs on wall street while highly highly depressed. It is NOT fun and the stress and generally douchebaggery of the people you work with can make depression so much worse. If you are young and very depressed, you need to deal with that FIRST. Generally the last thing you want to do is find yourself on the street working for some douchebag natural alpha when you are unsure of yourself and lack self confidence.

          Lastly, if you find yourself on the street, cut out all the game bullshit. Get on tinder, hinge, etc. and just take girls out on dates. My last job I was making $95 k as a single guy living in NYC. I had little to no free time to spend the money much less waste time trying to "game" random girls who didnt make it clear they were interested, but when I got a chance I took out girls from tinder, hinge, friends circles all the time. A nice date while being a successful young professional is the best game there is... sure you wont be getting the gratuitous sex Div 1 football players get for free, but you will be able to find a lot of high achieving girls who dig that shit.

          [–]man0man 27 points28 points  (11 children)

          This comment is better than this post.

          [–]j-coordinate 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          Do you have any links that are good rp knowledge for careers if wall street playboy isn't good?

          [–]tony_douglas 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          WSO is an ok starting point but the best way to learn is to learn from the best. Read real biographies/autobigraphies and or watch videos on youtube. Watch interviews with top hedge fund guys like Ray Dalio, Soros, Paul Tudor Jones etc and learn how they got where they are. I found LOTs of parallels but it is up to you to understand and integrate into your own personality. If you are more interested in entrepreneurship watch vids with Elon Musk, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos etc and find out the common flavors. You need to look into these guys minds and understand how they view the world... trust me very few of them are thinking about TRP issues... they are focused on their money.

          If you follow WSO advice to a tier, you will likely break into wall st but it takes a lot more to get further than a basic analyst role.

          [–]blazingnexus 0 points1 point  (3 children)

          A nice date while being a successful young professional is the best game there is... sure you wont be getting the gratuitous sex Div 1 football players get for free, but you will be able to find a lot of high achieving girls who dig that shit.

          But won't they see you as BB?

          [–]desalinate 8 points9 points  (0 children)

          It's just low key exchange for sex. Bb is only a problem if you're ignorant about the situation.

          [–]Draki1903 11 points12 points  (0 children)

          You gotta play to your strengths.

          [–]wtf_is_taken 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Sometimes it makes sense to work with your environment.

          [–]JR550 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          I'd also suggest: http://www.futuretech.ox.ac.uk/sites/futuretech.ox.ac.uk/files/The_Future_of_Employment_OMS_Working_Paper_1.pdf

          An overview of which jobs computers will replace in the next few decades, and which jobs will stay around. (List at the end, from best to worst.)

          Worryingly, women prefer a lot of the most durable fields right now...but on the other hand, a lot of female-heavy service jobs are going to go down HARD.

          Look through the list at the end. If you're young enough, pick a career that looks like it'll stay around for a while.

          [–]LuvBeer 10 points11 points  (0 children)

          This site is like Heartiste minus 20 IQ points.

          [–]pilledwillingly 3 points4 points  (5 children)

          If anyone wants advice from someone who went from $20,000k in debt to $100k in the bank in less than 2 years: Energy industry contracting. If you've got the brains, be an engineer and specialise in the energy industry, either established or emerging. If you don't have the brains (like myself), be an electician/fitter etc that specialises in the energy industry or equipment used in the energy industry.

          Stay away from LTR, stay away from mortgages, stay away from pets and other long term commitments. With the right qualifications, someone is going to offer you $150k to get on a plane and go to the middle of nowhere for 8 months at a time, or some other shitty roster. Whether it be a mine, an oil rig, a gas pipeline in a combat zone, whatever. You saddle up, live on site, make a few hundred thousand, break out of there while you've got your sanity, and start your own business.

          Or go take your arts degree to starbucks and whine about there being no jobs.

          [–]disorderly 1 point2 points  (2 children)

          The line of work you describe is intriguing. Can you tell us the job titles or direct us to more resources specifically relating to technical careers in the energy industry? Are we talking about the oil sands?

          [–]pilledwillingly 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I'm Australian, so it's probably a different route for you yanks. But find a website for a mine, or oil company, and find out what they're after and what they're paying.

          I'm an electrical linesman, I do power lines. A lot of our work is centered around coal mines. They hire fitters/mechanics, plumbers, all sorts. And pay top dollar because they have to live on site.

          Who is building all those coal seam gas rigs? Those guys would be on sweet cash.

          Google says: http://www.santos.com/coal-seam-gas/employment-opportunities.aspx

          They have apprenticeships. If they don't give you an apprenticeship, find out who contracts to them, and ask THEM for one.

          [–]neopet 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          He said them, electrician and pipe fitter.

          Oil sands or oil and gas... It's all the same.

          [–]Seargyseargsearg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Or go take your arts degree to starbucks and whine about there being no jobs.

          So many of my friends now do this. I just laugh on my way to the bank as I am finishing my Engineering degree.

          [–]Fred_Flintstone[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Great tip. Another good job I know of is sales engineering in silicon valley. $200k in your second year. stays around that level but if you are very good you can be doing 400k a year, and the best (usually enterprise software sales rather than sales engineering) hit seven figures.

          [–]Endorsed ContributorAerobus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Generally, Wall St loves ex-military, because it means you do not complain all day long.

          From the Wall St Playboys AMA. It just goes to show how weak and beta men have become. Not complaining all day long is now a "skill." Pathetic. Complaining is what women do.

          [–]the99percent1 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          Not everyone wants to be a wall street banker... advice here is too specific to that field...

          [–]KMillionaire 13 points14 points  (15 children)

          All of these links actually kind of suck, and I've gone through about five of them now. Wall Street Playboys and Wall Street Oasis are silly and sociopathic. The entire Finance industry will be automated within 10 years, from quantitative trading to financial analysis to sales and marketing. Silly yuppies.

          The 80,000 hours blog or whatever only seems to apply to the UK, and even then, I really disagree with what I was seeing there.

          [–]Fred_Flintstone[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

          The entire Finance industry will be automated within 10 years, from quantitative trading to financial analysis to sales and marketing. Silly yuppies.

          Nearly all trading will go. IBanking wont change much. Sales wont change at all. equity research/asset management wont change much

          [–]KMillionaire 5 points6 points  (1 child)

          There will be a massive thinning of the herd in finance sales and analysis, in my opinion. Sales generally is already becoming threatened by new CRM and marketing automation software. As for analysis, algorithmic software is making a profound impact already.

          As for iBanking and eCommerce generally, who really benefits from that? The software engineers, executive leadership, and shareholders.

          So many jobs are going to be automated in the coming years. Only technical people and the owners of the means of production (business owners, entrepreneurs, and beneficiaries of software patents and IP) will inherit future wealth.

          [–]I_DidYourMom247 1 point2 points  (6 children)

          What business degrees would you suggest a current college student look into? Most websites I read project the most growth for Accounting and Finance. Also what is your life/career like?

          [–]RPDBF 7 points8 points  (1 child)

          Accountings good, anyone who says it will be automated soon doesn't know the profession, low level bookkeepers will but actual auditors wouldn't be

          [–]1Joelasaur -1 points0 points  (0 children)

          And the people who say this don't understand the direction computer science is actually taking.

          [–]mrp3anut 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          Don't get a business degree except maybe accounting/finance as long as you will end up as a licensed professional.

          If you are strong in math and critical thinking get an engineering degree in a core discipline(civil, mechanical, electrical, chemical/process).

          [–]KMillionaire 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Really? I would hedge my bets on technology and healthcare, industry-wise. I am currently in Enterprise Technology sales, and my outlook is very, very good with just one year of experience so far.

          [–]krazykoo 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Personally, I did two degrees: Marketing & Finance and it's been great. The marketing industry is changing so much, having a numeric background changes a lot of opportunities--especially with those two as it's extremely uncommon.

          [–]I_DidYourMom247 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

          Thank you for the personal advice. Different question.

          The state I live in has a financial aid program which pays 90% of your tuition (none of the fee's) but only up to like 128 hours, double majoring would require me to go to school for another year and a half. For that year and a half I would have to go deeper into debt (roughly $20,000) In your opinion, would it be better to graduate with less debt and just a finance degree. Or to pick up the extra debt and do the double major?

          [–]watersign 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          it pretty much already is. the only instruements that aren't automated will be obscure/exotic instruements like distressed debt or structured products (basically any thinly traded, illiquid market)

          [–]collidethrow 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          80,000 hours is a non-profit for people who wants to make an optimal positive impact in the world. Not for people who want to get rich. (AKA effective altruism).

          Given that, do you still disagree? If so, why?

          [–]KMillionaire 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Hmm. Given that context, now that article makes more sense. I suppose they were ranking careers based off of things like social impact, ability to make a difference, pay, etc.

          My remaining gripe with that article is that they did not do a great job of quantifying how difficult it is to make it in careers like Politics, Law, and Journalism. Entering those fields, "making it," and making a difference are exponentially harder than the article made it seem.

          [–]1rp_aware 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I agree with this. Investment advisors at large institutions have little room currently to think for themselves. It is very conceivable that they will be placed by automated money management software with a smaller group of relationship managers handling large bodies of accounts.

          [–]thenarrrowpath 6 points7 points  (36 children)

          making $40K a year at a soul crushing job with no skill set to jump into another industry.

          Fuck, I need to start learning how to code.

          [–]blacwidonsfw 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          I had that same realization 5 yrs ago. I'm glad I took the initiative. Good luck.

          [–]1rp_aware 2 points3 points  (20 children)

          If you're after the most money and the widest job market, learn either Java or Javascript.

          [–]thenarrrowpath 0 points1 point  (9 children)

          Thanks. I've been on and off with the coding for about a year. It just doesn't interest me, but I keep trying to learn something new every so often. I think I'll get on code academy and start up a java session. The widest job market aspect is really appealing, thanks for pointing that out.

          I really want to get into data stuff. I recently tried downloading MySQL to my 2011 mac book pro, but everytime I try to launch it, the MySQL server says its disconnected. My mac version is outdated and I'm too afraid to upgrade fearing that my hard drive might crash (I've heard horror stories about upgrading your mac).

          [–]1rp_aware 2 points3 points  (7 children)

          I think you want to really ask yourself then what does interest you. Don't learn coding just for the job prospects. When you're a programmer, as I am, 1/100th of the time is spent unveiling flashy new applications to happy clients. The rest of the time is spent making them, i.e. working with characters on a screen. If you don't love it, it will grind you down.

          [–]thenarrrowpath 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Current job is grinding me down, so why not make good cash, get free food and beer, and get to wear anything but slacks. I'm not trying to be an engineer building something from the ground up, but rather have some skills to get me in the door somewhere. I see a lot of jobs I know I can do in SF, but they want you to know MySQL or like you said Java. Working for a living sucks, so why not at least make good money doing it. Shouldn't have majored in the social sciences, but hey I wanted to go to law school back then, so stupid.

          [–]1rp_aware 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          Maybe you'll find you like coding. I'm not trying to discourage you at all. I advocate learning coding, 100%. Coding skills are bound to rise in value as corporations start to realize they can automate away half of their payrolls.

          That said, if you're thinking of making a shift in your life then use it as an opportunity to consider all options. If there's something you're really interested in, maybe set yourself up to at least have some time to devote to it?

          [–]GarandTheftAvto 0 points1 point  (3 children)

          Just out of curiosity, what is the postion that works with the Cisco routers and networks and plugs in all the Cat6 cables and makes sure they're networked correctly and stuff? I love that.

          [–]GC0W30 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Those guys are network administrators, but there are a few different levels of Cisco guys.

          You're looking at somewhere between $60K and $200K for that skillset.

          [–]omg_cats 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Network engineering. The guy who designs where all that shit should go is an Architect.

          [–]VIP_toilet 0 points1 point  (2 children)

          I was trying to pick one language but I have doubts about Java. Not that it doesn't have a super-huge market but because someone who's going to learn to code on his own will have to inevitably face degree holders and everyone with a CS degree can claim that knows Java because it's part of the curriculum, whereas languages with high job prospects and in demand like C#, Ruby and JavaScript require you to sit down and do the work on your own, even if you have a degree.

          Asking because I'm in the process of picking one language to learn: Are my assumptions valid?

          [–]1rp_aware 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          I don't know enough to answer. I didn't get a CS degree and taught myself Java, Javascript, etc.

          The whole internet is built with Javascript so that couldn't hurt.

          [–]VIP_toilet 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          If you're making a living with your self-taught skills you know more than me. Thanks for replying.

          [–]Draki1903 0 points1 point  (6 children)

          I'm gonna need a source for this.

          [–]1rp_aware 0 points1 point  (5 children)

          Java is at the top of every list and survey.

          As far as Javascript goes, I don't have a source offhand so I won't try and add my own two cents.

          I did a bit of Googling, and depending on what source you find, the #2 is not well-established. There's no clear contender.

          [–]omg_cats 2 points3 points  (1 child)

          Java is great if you want to live a soul crushing existence maintaining legacy apps.

          Specialization is the name of the game. Learn a framework: rails, Wordpress, Drupal, django, whatever. The jobs are plentiful and the salaries are almost shamefully good.

          I could write a whole how-to on hacking a tech career. I went from $40k to >top 5% in like 5 years. I've taken a couple really driven people under my wing and done the same for them.

          Trust me, specialize.

          [–]Yangel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Teach me pls.

          I'm poking around codeacademy's python and ruby lessons. I';ve got a few Python books, but I'm kinda stuck on how to do anything practical with this knowledge. :/

          [–]Draki1903 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Allright. Is there any carry-over from Java to Javascript?

          I've done a year of beginner coding in my degree, so we can skip the "the hardest language is the first language" part.

          [–]1rp_aware 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Not much carryover, they are very different.

          That said, if you get really good with Java, you'll have enough of an underlying sense for programming that picking up any new language will be a lot easier.

          [–]lift_more_cake 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Former developer who now sells development teams to clients for a living.

          JavaScript is not just the language of the internet, there is a lot of back-end stuff getting ported to that as well. The real high end developers are learning JS, Objective-C for mobile apps, enough Java to be dangerous developing on android, and for backend, F#, GoLang, Scala, or Clojure.

          A lot to learn, but once you know a couple programming languages, you really start to understand they are all very similar, sans stylistic or paradigm differences (i.e. functional v object oriented).

          [–]mustang_mike 2 points3 points  (3 children)

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]mustang_mike 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            First of all, the language doesn't matter so much as the CS theory/practices you'd learn, and Python is a good language to start out with.

            Secondly, you're completely up your own ass. I'm making $175k a year using that "basement dwelling bullshit" language.

            [–]nothere_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            ha! looks like im getting btfo

            [–]sd2001 1 point2 points  (7 children)

            No. You need to learn how to pay others to code.

            [–]thenarrrowpath 5 points6 points  (6 children)

            I'd love too. How about you float me say, a cool million and ill get my app idea started up.

            [–]sd2001 2 points3 points  (5 children)

            Seriously, don't let a lack of cash stop you. There's plenty of ways to leverage for cash and talent if you've got the hustle and drive.

            [–]ancientballsack 10 points11 points  (4 children)

            Seriously! The software engineer is like a modern day, blue collar construction worker....you're sitting around all day building other peoples shit. It's just as easy...if not easier to raise money and manage a team...or simply partner with an engineer. But seriously, if you're going to be truly red pill, truly alpha, taking control of your life...be the dude on a mission to build awesome shit that provides value in the world and surround yourself with a team of highly skilled, smart people to help you build it out. You have access to talented people all over the world with elance and odesk and other freelancer sites. I built a marketing agency in a couple of weeks by finding skilled people on odesk who were way more competent and skilled than me and could work for way less...I simply got them business and took 50%...got to 25K a month in recurring client revenue in less than a month...with no capital investment...just my time. The only skill that takes is hustle and some basic marketing chops which you can learn online for free. There's so much freaking opportunity out there, so many problems to be solved for billions of people and businesses...go solve them.

            [–]sd2001 5 points6 points  (0 children)

            ^ Hell to the yeah!

            Here's a quick pro-tip to get freelance dev's, programmers, writers, etc. to work for you to free.

            One of my favorite "hacks" back in the day when I was broke as fuck and every penny counted was to find guys that did good freelance work and work out a deal where I'd find them more work in exchange for them working on my projects.

            Basically, I'd become a temporary "sales person" for them...hitting up my contacts, knocking on doors, etc...whatever it took to get them steady work. In exchange, they'd work on my projects.

            Pretty much every freelancer out there always needs steady work. If you're a hustler and ready to knock on a few doors, you can get that for them and reap the benefits.

            [–]FuckYouIAmDrunk 0 points1 point  (2 children)

            I built a marketing agency in a couple of weeks by finding skilled people on odesk who were way more competent and skilled than me and could work for way less...I simply got them business and took 50%

            What do you mean? You find skilled people and they give you 50% simply for bringing in clients while they do all the work? Please elaborate because that really seems like a fairy tale.

            [–]ancientballsack 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            There are a few services that you can charge a recurring fee for...SEO, PPC Management, and Content Marketing...the market value for these services ranges between $500 to about $30,000 per month depending on the type client. I positioned the company as a customer acquisition agency for B2B Software Companies...super niche customer base. I interview a ton of people who offer SEO, PPC, and Content Marketing on elance and odesk...found some rockstars that I told I'd hire for the next job I land. Then I hired someone to scrape a list of all of the software companies on crunchbase and angel list, and run a simple script that would find the correct email for the CEO. I then bulk emailed 20 CEO's a day with a short email asking a simple question....with responses I'd ask to get them on skype...and ask a bunch of questions about their business...ask about customer acquisition strategy...once I fully understood the issues and bottlenecks that they had I'd pitch them my services. I charged them 50-80% more than I'd pay my team of freelancers to do the work.

            [–]FuckYouIAmDrunk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Very interesting, thanks for elaborating! But I have to ask, why wouldn't a company just cut out the middle man and find their own freelancers? I guess you have more experience in this field than they do?

            [–]MyDarkSideOfTheMoon 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            How's the medical/billing coding industry going? I really want to jump into that. As a guy making 8 bucks an hour with a trade school nearby is it true you can make good money off this job(by good I mean 34 plus grand a year)?

            [–]Stormhammer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            To put it into perspective, I was making $32,000 a year when I started out as tier 1 help desk ~3 years ago. Now it's mid-50s, and in a few years, six figures.

            [–]commenta22 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Think a few of these are well off point.

            [–]I_DidYourMom247 1 point2 points  (3 children)

            So, I'm a college student who's major is currently pre-business at a University with a pretty top tier business program. I was planning on doing Finance, what are some of you guys opinions on that?

            [–]aakksshhaayy 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            Talk to the business students at your school about why they are doing it/is it worth it, etc. Even better, try to get in touch with people 30 or older who are in the career path you are thinking about. I wouldn't trust random people on the internet.

            [–]I_DidYourMom247 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            You make a good point, but I feel like my fellow students are in the same boat I'm in. None of us have experience yet. I don't currently know anyone who is in the field my degree is in (finance). I was just hoping that someone in the business might see this and have some input based on their personal experiences.

            [–]krazykoo -1 points0 points  (0 children)

            Do Marketing + Finance, or at least a minor in Marketing, it's all Psychology for business in the end.

            [–]Dakota3335 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            I hope to one day start a business, but I must say there is no shame in learning a practical skill and having a stable job.

            [–]robotmirrornine 1 point2 points  (2 children)

            Here is some advice -- take someone out to lunch that is in your intended field and successful and 10 years older than you. When I was a stockbroker I did that and was told it was a dying trade.

            Also, the book "The Millionaire Next Door", which is excellent, points out via statistics that most high net worth individuals got there by, most commonly, being a general contractor (construction), and all by having their own business. That's not stated strongly enough.

            [–]Fred_Flintstone[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            This is top advice. Also to actually get a job its much better to make informational interviews with somebody in a senior position in the company, get them to talk about their career and the industry as a whole for a while, then the bonding will make them ask you how they can help and whether they can forward your CV. And they will have huge bias towards you in interview process.

            What did you move to from stockbroking if you dont mind me asking?

            [–]17 Endorsed ContributorWhisper 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            I consider many of the responses and downvotes against the posts here to be emotionally driven.

            Oh, great, this shit again. What's it been, almost five minutes?

            Well, for the benefit of the newbs, here goes. People will come in here, read a little bit, think "Hey, this alpha thing appears to be the coin of the realm, so let me establish myself by giving a bunch of shitty or cliche advice in a patronizing tone, then tell anyone who disagrees that they are just being 'beta'."

            Do not allow anyone to play on your insecurities to prevent you from disagreeing with them.

            Worrying about whether you are "alpha" or not, "emotionally driven" or not, "insecure" or not is, in itself part of the problem. A man who succeeds is a man on a mission. Do not let others impede your mission by getting you worrying about how your mission looks, or whether you are "alpha enough" right now... especially if they use such tactics to shut down disagreement.

            Salesmen bullshit for a living. They are all about frame control. Do not submit to their frame. Instead of listening to what they say, watch what they do. Just like with women. In fact, salesmen and women bear certain similarities, because they both succeed by shaping others' perceptions, rather than dealing with the limitations imposed by physical reality, and this causes them to have some similar values, and to behave in similar ways.

            Now, in a highly-feminized society, such skills are well-rewarded. Learn them. But you must learn them by watching, not by listening.

            [–]Fred_Flintstone[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Not claiming alpha/beta or anything like that. In the following paragraph I talk about how it was an emotional subject for me. I just want others to benefit the same way I did. I also want people to think before upvoting and downvoting. There were some good informational comments being downvoted to negative numbers as they were agreeing with the post. There were also criticisms that were being upvoted that only really amounted to 'you have a low IQ' or some variant - it didnt add to discussion.

            I actively welcome all disagreement but want it to be rational, not one line posts saying that 'this is all wrong' 'i disagree with most of this'. My response to all of those responses would be: "What do you agree with if you disgree with everything else? do you really find nothing of value in all those posts?"

            [–]ancientballsack 7 points8 points  (7 children)

            Yea fuck a "career" or a "profession"...its just glorified slavery. Entrepreneurship is where it's at...and the internet makes it pretty damn easy to be successful very quickly...you have access to billions of people. Learn to leverage the skills of others to build systems and businesses that make you money. I studied environmental studies in college...realized that most of the jobs I could get were shit...so I studied internet marketing, software development, seo, conversion optimization, product development (all free information on the internet btw...I also used groupinsiders.com to group buy online courses)...after 2 years I'm now quietly making 45K+/month....its a fuck ton of work up front...but my businesses take less than half an hour a week to maintain....I put all my time into growth and building better systems. Also, there's no fucking salary cap...I'm aiming to hit 450K/month in the next 6 months...by just scaling my current systems. You will almost never build true wealth by working for someone...and by wealth I mean freedom over your time, energy, relationships etc....not necessarily cash.

            [–]Stormhammer 4 points5 points  (1 child)

            Hey man, if you're legit, mind doing an AMA over on /r/entrepreneur?

            [–]pTymN 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            A well paying career is nice for self funding a startup. I agree, its not the end goal. Kudos on already making it. I'm encouraged to keep not giving up.

            [–]Seargyseargsearg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Bro you need to do an AMA. I would love to hear more about your startup process and how you did it all. Information is a powerful thing and as a young college student who recently found TRP I would love to know more.

            [–]Chenal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            How does lying on the internet feel?

            [–]Fred_Flintstone[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

            Yea fuck a "career" or a "profession"...its just glorified slavery

            There is truth to this but something else worth considering:

            As you move up in an organisation often your job becomes a sales / revenue generation job. When you are doing high-end sales you are basically an entrepreneur within the organisation. Most of what you make in a year will be from your bonus. Investment banking is high paying (though not what it used to be) as at the 3rd/4th level up you are basically a salesman selling entire companies.

            Its also worth getting a career and working on your business on the side while you get contacts, money and so on.

            after 2 years I'm now quietly making 45K+/month...

            Holy fucking shit mate! I just got told...

            [–]yummyluckycharms 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Ah Wall street oasis - the place where people with sub par resumes go to lurk and grumble in a field that is highly saturated.

            It does offer, however, an accurate portrayal of life in finance. The trick is realizing that what works in finance tends to fall flat outside of finance world career wise.

            [–]KainDrag420 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            I didn't see medicine anywhere here..

            [–]badmillennial 1 point2 points  (2 children)

            Wall Street Playboys is a goldmine of information.

            Their website reaffirmed my belief that it's usually best to allocate most of your energy towards making money until you're in your 30's. While running game in your free time, of course.

            [–]sd2001 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            Until you're in your 30s?

            Life doesn't stop in your 30s. In fact, it only gets much, much better because you have the experience and resources to really enjoy it. And more importantly, if you've started early (mid-twenties or earlier) then you should have enough leverage to where you can allocate others' energy to further your own pursuits. Let them trade time for money.

            Source: 36 and entrepreneur for 11 years.

            [–]SimplySerenity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Good to hear. Glad that I'm thinking about this shit while I'm really young. Pretty much just getting started.

            [–]Squeezymypenisy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Reading books and the Internet only gives you marginal knowledge.

            [–]easyrandomguy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            don't forget this one: get rich or die tryin

            [–]j-coordinate 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            So which is a good site to get good rp career advice?

            [–]DarkSayed 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Red Pill in professional life is like Red Pill in other contexts. The social dynamics remains the same.

            Just don't talk Red Pill with your colleagues. Someone may well use it against you if they want to screw you over for some reason.

            [–]Fred_Flintstone[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            The Gervais principle series mentions this. It is a huge taboo to discuss 'powertalk' - you will be outcast/humiliated/branded crazy/accused of all sorts of things.

            [–]TekkomanKingz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            IF IT DOESN'T APPLY LET IT FLY!!!!

            [–]zxsteven 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Gonna be a good afternoon today.

            [–]1aguy01 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Thanks, there's a lot of good information here.

            [–]karmacrunch 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Brilliant, I'm 18 but I have an internship in a asset management company this summer.

            Thank you so much for these links.

            [–]Fred_Flintstone[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

            You are well ahead of the curve. I only heard of AM after graduation

            [–]a_scourge -1 points0 points  (0 children)

            wut i thought TRP was passive income, drop the high powered career? which is it???

            someone tell me quick before i dump my top 1% career :)

            [–]dub121686 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

            Lots of good information in one place here.

            [–]lubeoil -1 points0 points  (2 children)

            I've been quite interested in starting a man's accessories line. Which is a fucking challenge for me because I don't know jackshit about fashion.

            Any advice?

            [–]Stormhammer 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            I'd ask over on /r/entrepreneur

            What sort of accessories? Look at your competitors, see what they sell, mimic, market and sell better. It's why there's a variety of chocolate chip cookies and frozen pizzas :)

            [–]lubeoil 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Bracelets, rings, scarves, and just shit like that.

            [–]occupythekitchen -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

            I love this sub it passes so much motivation and resources to be a better man!