all 153 comments

[–]Poemi 242 points243 points  (35 children)

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As someone married with kids, and old enough to be many RedPillers' father, I'd say there's some truth to this. As usual, however, it's more complicated than we'd like.

  • Many women do want their man to a dominant authority figure, but you can't actually treat most of them like children. There's a lot more subtlety that goes into being dominant without being quite so obvious that you're dominant. At its extreme, this ends up be the egalitarianship that some women say they want. Generally, however, what they want is the illusion of egalitarianism, with the comfort of being dominated. It can take some work to figure out how to do that. But like a street magician, it just takes practice.

  • Some women (younger ones in particular) have "daddy issues". Although the symptoms appear similar, do not confuse this with the more general case of a well-adjusted woman wanting a dominant/alpha male! Girls with daddy issues are usually more trouble that they're worth, because they're using you to work through an unfulfilled relationship with someone else.

  • To some degree, this dynamic fades with time. 10 years into a relationship, particularly with kids, everything becomes more mellow (assuming your relationship is fundamentally solid). A lot of the angst of being young fades with time.

  • Don't ever think that you've got it all figured out, and she's the one that always needs to change or else. Women are often confusing, but that doesn't mean you're right all the time. Any woman worth having and keeping is worth a little compromise and critical introspection on your own part.

[–]introspeck 44 points45 points  (1 child)

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As a man married almost 30 years, this is spot-on.

We had our tumultuous times early in the relationship, before we got married, but we worked it out by being adults. I did almost "next" her at one point but the threat of it brought her around. Never needed to do that again. It's easy to say "next that bitch!" over and over, but at some point you may decide that a relationship is worth working for.

what they want is the illusion of egalitarianism, with the comfort of being dominated.

Truth.

Any woman worth having and keeping is worth a little compromise and critical introspection on your own part.

Yes. I strive to be a man worth having, and she works to be a woman worth my love. I am not a god-king; I make mistakes, and I need to know when I have, and correct them. I can still be the strong one in the relationship. I don't take her every criticism at face value, yet I do need to listen enough to figure out when I could actually use a course correction. Or at least realize her "emotional truth" which is behind her complaints, and address them within my own frame.

[–]Ahsinoei 9 points10 points  (0 children)

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Your wife is a very lucky woman.

[–]s0nicfreak 77 points78 points  (6 children)

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but you can't actually treat most of them like children. There's a lot more subtlety that goes into being dominant without being quite so obvious that you're dominant.

It's like parenting a teenager, really. They still want a lot of the same things, you still need to do a lot of the same things, but if you treat them like a child it's just going to lead to resentment and rebellion.

[–]1 MMachiavellianRed 87 points88 points  (1 child)

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And we go full-circle again, "she's the most responsible teenager in the house."

[–]Poemi 35 points36 points  (1 child)

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Much better comparison.

[–]Hatorader 14 points15 points  (3 children)

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I'm so glad that someone on TRP finally said that once in a while a women might actually be right. I don't think I've read any comments yet that have mentioned this and you saying that has lifted a lot of pressure I feel between my girlfriend and I. I can actually let her be right sometimes. Thank you!

[–]Poemi 15 points16 points  (1 child)

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Yeah, a man saying that you should treat women like children because men are always right does seem a bit...childish.

[–]libglip 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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Children can be right, too. And when you, the parent (or husband), see this and actually say, "yeah, you're right and I'm wrong", that does not break your frame or diminish their respect for you; if anything, that respect INCREASES.

I don't have to be right all the time, just right eventually....

[–]BluepillProfessor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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Read Athol Kay Married Men Sex Primer where he explains the Captain/First Officer dynamic. Think Star Trek. Picard always says: "Options, Number One." The FO can even take over and relieve the Captain at times so, yes, obviously the FO is sometimes right! A good Captain listens carefully. Watch the Next Generation for more.

[–]2asd1100 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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Good response, but I feel your missing the fact that a person matures.

Daddy issues means the girl didn't have a safe environment to mature or never had to because the standard for responsible behavior has set to low. Not all women are like that, and a lot of modern day women overcompensate and keep their inner child under a bitch shield because they where reprimanded for being open and vulnerable.

A well adjusted women wants a dominant partner not as a emotional crutch but as a foundation on which she can explore her feminine nature. This shouldn't fade just because of old age, encourage her to let herself go emotionally knowing you're there to keep the balance.

Finally you need to set a standard for people, they need to change unhealthy behavior, if they want to be around you. This is what self respect boiled down to. What do you think politeness is? men(&women) didn't tolerate bad behavior around them so general rules of conduct appeared organically as a reaction.

This is especially important when it comes to an LTR. If she isn't flexible while dating she'll probably be even less flexible after you're commitet to her and she gets halpf of your stuff in the worst case posible.

[–]wazzym 8 points9 points  (0 children)

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I am just going to leave this as a response to OP:s Video about lying to your children about eating candy http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-high-cost-of-tiny-lies

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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My daughter was born on Tuesday. This is in Vienna, Austria and I was really surprised. I see my role as a protector, authority figure and provider. So during and after the birth, wearing my protector hat, I saw myself as overseeing and judging the nurses and doctors and everyone and preparing to kick ass verbally if wife and baby don't get everything they need. Yeah, I could say I was a bit bossy, if not verbally so then at least in body language and demeanor surely. I usually am. I cannot not bossy - I am happy to relax if and when I see a proper candidate take over the job and call the shots, but when that doesn't happen I just feel I have to make sure everybody is doing everything right and everybody is getting everything done for them...

At any rate, ALL the other new dads there were entirely different - basically they were second mothers. No amount of bossiness in their body language. Hugging the baby for hours, being completely "molten". Absolutely in nurturing mode, not protecting mode. Weird.

I don't know, it somehow disgusts me. I respect men more when I see that "sharp" look about them, when they look like they are prepared to handle dangerous situations, decide difficult stuff quickly and so on, not the kind of "second mother" nurturer look...

[–]Poemi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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You'll probably be a good dad.

And a good dad does occasionally melt for his baby girl. :)

[–]SonofLelith 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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Thank you for a very rational and sound post.

[–]1kick6 0 points1 point  (6 children)

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Generally, however, what they want is the illusion of egalitarianism, with the comfort of being dominated. It can take some work to figure out how to do that. But like a street magician, it just takes practice.

When in doubt: err on the side of more dominant.

To some degree, this dynamic fades with time. 10 years into a relationship, particularly with kids, everything becomes more mellow (assuming your relationship is fundamentally solid). A lot of the angst of being young fades with time.

The number of divorces that occur in the 7-10 years of marriage range would cast doubt on this mellowing you suggest.

[–]Poemi 6 points7 points  (5 children)

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Well, I did say your relationship had to be solid. That involves years of work, but perhaps more importantly, requires picking the right woman in the first place.

It's a good question: how many divorces happen because one or both parties weren't willing to put the effort into maintaining a salvageable relationship, and how many of them were effectively doomed from the beginning because one or both parties didn't have their eyes open and married the wrong person?

More of the former than the latter, would be my guess.

[–][deleted]  (46 children)

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    [–]_social_caterpillar[S] 2 points3 points  (17 children)

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    [–][deleted]  (15 children)

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      [–]_social_caterpillar[S] 0 points1 point  (14 children)

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      Exactly, I don't know either. I get no enjoyment out of saying that women like to be treated like children, they just do it to themselves...

      [–][deleted]  (13 children)

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        [–]_social_caterpillar[S] -1 points0 points  (9 children)

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        But you know what he did instead of treating her like a child?

        The bf did pretty much what I said here:

        "If they [misbehave] you have one benefit with women that you don't with a child: NEXT."

        I get that there are shitty women out there.

        I've had very few experiences with shitty women. Most of them have been sweethearts.

        And there are good women out there, far and few and in between, like all good people are...but they're there, waiting to surround themselves with other good people.

        Agree. There are a lot of great women out there. I'm just observing their tendencies.

        [–][deleted]  (8 children)

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          [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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          Thank you for putting into words exactly how I feel about all of this.

          [–]psyyduck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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          Thanks for posting this.

          [–]_social_caterpillar[S] -5 points-4 points  (5 children)

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          We live in a gray world. There are masculine men, feminine men, masculine women, feminine women, and everything in between. Hell look at all the genders on Facebook. An accurate generalization is impossible.

          When I say "women" it is short for feminine women. Feminine women are those that completely embrace their feminine side. They're dainty, delicate, love putting on makeup and looking good, love attention, like to be protected, etc. Obviously all women are not like this, but that particular subgroup is what I'm referring to. That traditional view is what I refer to when I say women. I do this for convenience.

          When I say "men", I am referring to the traditional masculine male.

          Not all women like being called feminine and not all (though fewer) men like being called masculine. But I'm not referring to these exceptions. I'm speaking for the majority that do.

          I can't speak for others on here, but usually when I say man and woman, I mean masculine and feminine, which are qualities that any individual can possess. Even homosexual relationships often have a masculine and a feminine individual though they are of the same gender. The feminine will almost always be more childlike than the masculine.

          [–][deleted]  (4 children)

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            [–]_social_caterpillar[S] -4 points-3 points  (3 children)

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            I make initial generalizations and then evaluate on a case-by-case basis. Everyone does this. If I gave you a red apple, you would believe it was ripe. I could call you out for generalizing. I could say "But how can you jump to conclusions about this apple being ripe! What if it was actually unripe and just wanted to express itself with a different color! How can you be so irrational as to judge this apple without knowing anything about it!" This example is a little contrived but you get my point. Humans make snap decisions because we are compelled to stereotype by our nature. There's a reason they say first impressions are lasting.

            Also, humans are very predictable. Put candy next to a checkout counter, and people will buy it. There's a reason so many stores do this. Post a picture of a cute girl with a nice rack holding a kitten and it will make the front page of Reddit guaranteed. Try this out if you have a nice rack, you'll probably get a kick out of the attention too.

            You can't deny that humans, as special and different as we like to say we are, have some very predictable tendencies. Advertisers know this. Hollywood knows this (there's a reason so many movies have similar plots, it's all one big formula that they know people love). Politicians know this. TRP knows this. No one likes to hear it though. It goes against this whole idea of this wonderful glob of mystery that we are all supposed to be. Most of our daily decisions are actually made subconsciously, not consciously.

            I'll be blunt, I see humans as extremely advanced animals. We do everything else other mammals do: eat, shit, fuck, form social groups, take care of our young, fight over land, protect each other, etc. I don't put humans on a pedestal. We are just rationalizing monkeys. It may sound a little depressing, but that's why TRP is so bitter to swallow at first. I don't expect you to understand.

            Done.

            [–]RedFlagsAreGood 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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            And there are good women out there, far and few and in between, like all good people are...but they're there, waiting to surround themselves with other good people.

            So where do we find these women and how do we distinguish them from women who are only on best behavior until the ring goes on?

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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              [–]RedFlagsAreGood 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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              That's solid advice. Thanks.

              [–]foooow -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

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              She blames "patriarchy" for infantilizing women.

              [–]s0nicfreak 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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              But you don't delegate with children, particularly young children. You might value their opinions, you might conscript them to do some chores, and you might even ask their input. But ultimately, you're not discussing a decision on equal footing, like the president and his adviser or me and my man.

              I disagree with that. It's just that usually children aren't more of an expert on anything than adults (or, adults assume they aren't).

              My kids are actually more of an expert than I am on a lot of computer and video game related things (because they have more free time to dedicate to it than I do) so I do discuss some things related to that on equal footing with them. My 6 year old daughter knows more about fashion than I do, so I'll take her advice on that.

              With children, just as with women, if you expect to know more about everything, always be right, just because you're older/a man, it's going to cause problems. It doesn't take children too long to realize they know more than you about certain things - and due to your refusal to accept this, they will discount everything you say.

              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                [–]s0nicfreak 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                But my point is, you're treating children wrong if that's how you treat them.

                [–]lolyzor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                When I look at my mom she will always go for feel good solutions, solution that makes her feel at ease, while my father is doing cold logical approach, and for that reason you man is wrong for taking your advice on things. You may not feel that you are doing that, since it is your normal way of thinking, but for a third person that is quite easy to spot..

                [–][deleted]  (23 children)

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                  [–][deleted]  (22 children)

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                    [–]Daell 5 points6 points  (1 child)

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                    You got the bait :-D

                    [–][deleted]  (5 children)

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                      [–]lupilipid 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                      You could have worded it better dude. It was rude to call her a land-whale.

                      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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                        [–]foooow 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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                        the faint sound of a pin dropping in an adjacent room

                        :)

                        [–]Hardparty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                        You have more of a brain than most of the women I've been with. Never had me a smart woman before

                        [–][deleted]  (13 children)

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                          [–][deleted]  (12 children)

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                            [–]lolyzor 0 points1 point  (9 children)

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                            an attractive woman, with solid hobbies, a passion for her career (even it's a stay at home mom, I ain't hatin), high personal expectations, a solid moral framework, good work ethic, and a desire for constant self-improvement

                            Add submissive and you got yourself a perfect unicorn, yeah tell me where to find them I will get one for my self and my best friend, these qualities are mostly found in men, sorry but I have not met women like that, that is just idealization of women..

                            [–][deleted]  (8 children)

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                              [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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                                  [–]lolyzor -2 points-1 points  (4 children)

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                                  Lol let me repeat myself again , I have yet to meet such perfect women, you are doing the same thing all women do, you tell us oh guys there are perfect women out there but you have not looked hard enough, well where are they? Don't just say they exist show me where?

                                  [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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                                    [–]lolyzor -1 points0 points  (2 children)

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                                    haha I knew you would turn this around on me, haha, listen my father is well known man, he is a dean of one university and I am quite young, girls approach me all the time, they are pretty they look great but I have yet to meet those high quality women" and I meet lots of them. Women you are talking about dont exist. My father is red pill as hell, and my sister is almost a unicorn but she still suffers from most of the traits that normal women suffer from, but it is not as bad as usual, so dont ever tell that to a man, he will really believe you and think he just should wait for that perfect one, you for one are still suffering from the same problems all women suffer from, idealization, hamstering, not accepting reality etc, so do a service to all men out there and dont spread that bullshit about ideal women, read the side bar for more info..

                                    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                                      [–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (4 children)

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                                      It's an easy comparison, but the dynamic plays out beyond just parental and romantic relationships. Consider what so many people are looking for from their ideal teacher, boss, political leaders or God. You're describing what authority looks like at a fundamental level.

                                      [–]_social_caterpillar[S] 5 points6 points  (3 children)

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                                      Sure, I may look for different things from a good teacher (patience, nurturing), a good boss (motivating, inspiring, fair, focused) , and God (forgiving, supportive, accepting), but the amount of parallels between what a child looks for in a parent and the TRP methodology to what a woman looks for in a partner, are so similar its amazing.

                                      [–]TRP-Talk 43 points44 points  (16 children)

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                                      Shhhhh!!! You mustn't let them know we know this!

                                      Also, I can't be the only one here to have noticed that sexually mature adult women who take themselves very seriously respond extremely well to language that is evocative of how a loving father would playfully talk to his daughter. I've had several girlfriends now with whom I've shared an incredibly rich discourse of infantile language, baby talk, pet-names, etc.

                                      I think it relates directly to your post. Sexually mature women in long term relationships instinctively respond to a sexualized replication of the emotional dynamic they shared with their father. It sounds off, in that I don't think many women would enjoy being told their boyfriend is a pseudo-father they get to fuck, but how else can you put it?

                                      The infantile discourses I mentioned always develop organically out of our conversations, and they're extremely private; they disappear whenever we're in public. And they're not just some pure contrivance of mine; there's no way I'd find myself doing it so often if it wasn't satisfying something deep within them. Only a fool persists in his folly.

                                      DAE?

                                      [–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (4 children)

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                                      I know I purposefully looked for a man like my dad. I'm sure there are other women who would accept that idea, especially if they have a positive relationship with their fathers.

                                      [–]FugitiveAlpha 16 points17 points  (1 child)

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                                      Yep, I've dated women that brought this up after a while. They want to call me daddy and such, said they "sota kinda have a daddy fetish but not MY DADDY EWWWW". It wasn't a fetish, it was just that she loved being "fathered" as much as i love being mothered (i like being cared for in that nurturing way).

                                      I'd be willing to bet that a great many women feel like that, but are kinda afraid to talk about it because being attracted to "daddy" feels kinda gross. When in reality, they are just looking for what their daddy taught them was masculine. Just like I'm pretty much looking for what my mother showed me a good woman was (she set a high bar)

                                      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                                      Exactly! My mother in law and I are very similar in a lot of ways as well! Both of our parents have successful relationships so I think we both wanted what they had and subconsciously decided to look for that.

                                      [–]TRP-Talk 8 points9 points  (1 child)

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                                      I couldn't agree more.

                                      A strong masculine father ideally creates a lasting bubble of trust and security in which a daughter's feminine qualities can be fully expressed. In your case, and correct me if I'm wrong, you sought to replicate the positive dynamic you shared with your father because it was long-established as a frame that was mutually beneficial to both parties. You got to be a delightful girl under the responsible paternalism of your father, and your father got to be proud of his wonderful daughter. And to think that somewhere a feminist is screaming about the patriarchy!

                                      What is significant is that you recognized this fact consciously, and sought it out deliberately in your partnerships. This level of self-awareness, of knowing why you're motivated to behave in a certain way such that you achieve a desired result, is a highly valuable quality. TRP often laments, with some justice, that this quality has become vanishingly rare amongst modern women.

                                      In other words, Women do what they do, without necessarily knowing why they do it, usually motivated by Machiavellian biological urges that are deeper than their conscious minds, and then they fraudulently misrepresent the character of their reprehensible actions by retroactively justifying their own behavior to themselves in a flattering way. It's a credit to your character that you skip the bullshit completely and recognize what you want, why you want it, and then go and get it.

                                      I want to add though, that in the case of my current girlfriend, her father has a medical condition that prevents him from being an engaged and active father. No doubt, he dutifully ensured her emotional and financial stability throughout her adolescence, for which he deserves great respect, but presently, he's more or less a couch potato in a house run by her mother. Overall, they were/are a successful family unit, and she has no history of abuse or neglect whatsoever, which is a more precious thing than most young men realize: her fundamental conviction about the universe is that it's a happy place to be.

                                      That said, the relative absence of her father means that my role in her life as a long-term boyfriend is very much paternal, but unlike her father, I exchange my commitment to her not for the sake of posterity, (unless I have a child with her) but rather for the sake of access to her sexuality. This exchange of my commitment for her sexuality is actually the explicit basis of our relationship, and the terms are inviolable. Unsurprisingly to TRP, rather than this frame being oppressive and inhumane, within the restrictions created by the rules of the game, a massive amount of healthy creativity is possible. It's like chess, in that there are 10120 possible games, all within the confines of the rules.

                                      I offer this conception of frame to TRP with some reservations. Don't even try to establish a frame such as this in a relationship with a girl who isn't happy. Don't try it with girls who have been abused or neglected. Don't try it with girls who are attention whores or turbo-sluts. In my particular case, I found a girl who I evaluated to be worth the commitment, and I established such a frame to ensure as best I could that she remains worthy. I still have to soft-game her daily, but that's to be expected. I find it highly effective to regularly communicate absolutely unambiguous ways for her to satisfy my expectations. I create as few incentives as I possibly can for bad behavior.

                                      My final reservation should be obvious: Before you even dream of establishing such a frame in an ongoing relationship with a worthy girl, ensure that you are worthy yourself. But that's why you come to TRP, isn't it? We show you the path to creating worth for yourself.

                                      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                      You're right in that it was mutually beneficial, but wrong about me being able to be "a delightful girl". My father was a military man who expected me to always be working to better myself. Our relationship was always strained because I felt like I could never be good enough for him, HOWEVER I am currently extremely successful now and I'm pretty sure it's because of his efforts and he is very proud of me. I also saw that he was very good to my mother and while he was a strict dad it was because he cared and was involved. All of my loser high school friends have one thing in common: no dad or a vegetable/practically comatose dad.

                                      Saying I'm self aware is like the biggest compliment I've ever gotten lol. The downside to that is that it's so hard to be friends with people who aren't (and I have yet to meet a woman that is self aware), it's so painful listening to them complain about their lives when it all looks so obvious to me, but of course if I say anything I'm a horrible bitch lol. So I just have to suck it up and smile and nod. I've been getting better at it. :)

                                      To be fair I didn't realize what I was doing with my first boyfriend, but after dating the next one for a few months I noticed a LOT of similarities between the two, and my dad lol. It weirded me out a bit at first, but my dad is the best man I know so it only makes sense I would want that.

                                      I agree with your "don't try this with unhappy girls". I have struggled with depression for most of my life (I'm better now though!) and a lot of the advice I see here would not have worked on me at that point, but really I probably shouldn't have been dating anyway lol. And communicating ways for your girl to make you happy is awesome! I'm always asking for "direction" from my husband, I just want to make him happy but I need some hints at the very least!

                                      [–]projectself 23 points24 points  (2 children)

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                                      This is spot on.

                                      And one of the best ways to screen for a good woman is to find out what her relationship with her Dad is.

                                      When I want to go fishing, I do not ask my 12 year old daughter for permission. Likewise, when I want to go fishing, I do not ask my girlfriend for permission. She might be invited to join, or not, but at no time does she get a vote on my activities. You can say I treat them the same, but it's not. I tease both of them in different ways. I have told my daughter "don't eat that donut, you'll get fat and no one will ever love you" with a laugh and a smile.. I tell both of them to do things for me. I provide security and acceptance on my terms to both of them. It is a healthy dynamic and works well in most male female relationships.

                                      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                                      [deleted]

                                        [–]thefoolishking 2 points3 points  (5 children)

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                                        Could you give an example of what you mean by infantile discourse?

                                        [–]TRP-Talk 21 points22 points  (4 children)

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                                        It's not as extreme as how people talk to babies, and not quite as silly as how people talk to their dogs, but it's not too far from either. It's mostly the tone of voice, which is soft, affectionate, and warm. The exact words are less significant than the manner in which they're said.

                                        Suppose you're at a pet store and you see a puppy in the window. Very few people are going to talk to that puppy using the tone of voice appropriate for a businessman or a professor. They'll say, "Oh, look at that little puppy dog with it's tail wagging all over the place and it's floppy little earns and it's just the cutest little thing I ever did see!"

                                        It's somewhat like that with the women I've dated, but a lot more involved; you might even say theatrical. There are running jokes, nicknames, code words, private meanings, references to past experiences, and they're all going on simultaneously, and most of the time they take place in that tone of voice. It's like pillow-talk, basically, but taken to new heights. Keep in mind I'm 25, and most of these women are between the ages of 18 and 22, but they really love it.

                                        With my current girlfriend, she talks about how I have an "indoor" voice for speaking to her, which she feels privileged to hear because it's "closer to the real me", and an "outdoor" voice, which is almost completely different because it's deep, authoritative, and commanding. A good mix of both throughout the day keeps her highly engaged.

                                        She rarely every causes trouble, but when/if she does so, the "indoor" voice disappears immediately, the "outdoor" voice takes over, and the simplest chastisement produces instantaneously better behavior. All it takes is a little, "I'm not happy with how you spoke to me earlier. I want to talk to you about how that wasn't respectful." When she's back on her best behavior, the "indoor" voice of affection returns, and she knows she's back in my good graces.

                                        [–]ButterMyBiscuit 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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                                        *furiously scribbles down notes*

                                        [–]FugitiveAlpha 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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                                        You have good frame control.

                                        [–]pluvoaz 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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                                        You've just described my Dad voice. No need for yelling, just a firm 'Hey!' is all it takes to snap my daughter to attention. She also responds when I whistle.

                                        [–]BluepillProfessor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                        Bows down to the OMG AMOG.. Thanks.

                                        "Pillow talk and innuendo, private meanings and past references running simultaneously...."

                                        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                                        [deleted]

                                          [–]TRP-Talk 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                                          I replied a little further down in the thread to someone else who asked the same question. I don't know if I can explain it more; I was under the impression when I made the post that many other men would understand what I meant either intuitively, or would have their own habits of a similar nature. Perhaps not?

                                          I've been in several relationships in which private discourses develop between me and my girlfriends. These discourses evolve and expand throughout the life of the relationship. They're private, they only make sense to us, but most importantly, the tone of voice we use when speaking in this way is very similar to how adults talk to babies.

                                          I made the argument that the playfully infantile character of these discourses is highly similar to how a father would playfully talk to his daughter, which explains why the women I've dated found that manner of speaking so appealing, in spite of the fact that they were adults with an entirely different tone for public speech. I figure that the mood involved in speaking such infantile discourses is one in which a woman can let herself be a child again, where she can enjoy the happiness of being spoken to by a loving father, but in this case, not an actual father, but the pseudo-father that a boyfriend or husband represents.

                                          It's all a bit torturous when stretched out like that, but it's just a theory. What I am certain of, however, is that perfectly adult women with mature voices really seem to enjoy being spoken to as if they were children, and they love replying as would a child, and in spite of the fact that it's really weird when you think about it, it's actually quite a lot of fun.

                                          [–]incraved 6 points7 points  (3 children)

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                                          I disagree with:

                                          never argue with the child

                                          You should not just dismiss your kids like they are some little shits. If I have children I definitely will try to teach them and let them feel their opinion has a value and not just dismiss it.

                                          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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                                          [deleted]

                                            [–]incraved 5 points6 points  (1 child)

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                                            I was just saying that this analogy fails at this point. I wasn't arguing about how to deal with women shit tests.

                                            [–]Jessie_James 5 points6 points  (3 children)

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                                            The crucial point I think you missed is that you can be much more successful if you treat a woman like your child (with care, respect, honesty, fun, security, etc) than treating her like A child that you don't care about.

                                            [–]_social_caterpillar[S] 7 points8 points  (2 children)

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                                            Maybe I should have emphasized this, because a lot of people seem to think that treating someone like a child is some dismissive, demeaning, patronizing act. "Treating someone like a child", the phrase, has a negative connotation. There are also positive qualities you can have when interacting with kids. Consoling them, protecting them, teasing them playfully, taking them on adventures with you, being patient with them, teaching them new things, encouraging them, empowering them (but at the same time guiding them because they will make incorrect decisions), admiring their imagination, wonder, and innocence. Still, you have to make sure that the child respects you and looks up to you. Most women will readily admit they love to be treated this way. But if you present it as treating them like a child, they get offended.

                                            Just because you treat someone like a child doesn't mean you treat them like garbage. Just because we treat women as children, doesn't mean we are misogynists.

                                            [–]Jessie_James 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                            Well said! I agree.

                                            [–]lolyzor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                            spot on!

                                            [–]16 Endorsed Contributorzyk0s 22 points23 points  (0 children)

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                                            I have this petty fantasy of witnessing an argument between a child and their feminist mother, who would probably try hard to exert authority over their kid, and tell the younger child "hey buddy, don't you know you have rights? Don't let your mother talk to you like that, you deserve respect! It's not because you're younger that your desires don't matter". Then turn to the furious mom and say "what? I thought you were for equality".

                                            [–]sir_wankalot_here 10 points11 points  (0 children)

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                                            Subsitute women for humans in general :) Most people don't like making decisions, so if you act like you know what you are doing, they will naturally follow.

                                            [–]dawg826 22 points23 points  (3 children)

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                                            I take most of this as a given, but your insight about screening men to be fathers is an interesting one. That lends some logic to the illogical nature of women.

                                            [–]_social_caterpillar[S] 26 points27 points  (2 children)

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                                            Interesting how strong father-like qualities are the key to unlocking her legs, in effect allowing you to become a father.

                                            [–]positiveeagle 16 points17 points  (0 children)

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                                            "Call me Daddy."

                                            [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

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                                            I've always tried to live by my "never have sex with someone you wouldn't want to raise a kid with" rule. A lot of my high school friends had oops babies with awful people. :(

                                            [–]AdmiralVonJackass 11 points12 points  (2 children)

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                                            Maybe our problem is we're exclusively fucking women that haven't reached full cognitive maturity yet. There definitely seems to be a correlation between what TRP finds disgraceful about females, and immature behavior.

                                            [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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                                            Maybe the problem is that the immature women are also most fertile?

                                            [–]stemgang 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                                            immature behavior

                                            ...which persists until menopause.

                                            I, for one, cannot wait that long.

                                            [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

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                                            Best summary:

                                            Beta: treats a woman like a little boy treats his mother.

                                            Alpha: treats a woman like a father treats his (teenager) daughter.

                                            Prediction: boys who have sisters (and functional dads) are more naturally alpha. They get the clue from father.

                                            [–]_social_caterpillar[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                                            I say you're spot on. Except having a functional dad (positive male role model) is way more important than a sister. And a younger (more childish) sister is better.

                                            [–]TeasingPenguin 3 points4 points  (1 child)

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                                            Top quality post, I love quality content

                                            [–]_social_caterpillar[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                                            Thank you.

                                            [–]heist_of_saint_graft 13 points14 points  (7 children)

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                                            This is all there is to it. Don't be subtle about it. Make her call you "Daddy" to drive the point home.

                                            A father stands against his child's emotional outbursts because he has the child's best interests at heart. He is a benevolent leader. He rewards good behavior and punishes bad behavior. He uses his superior experience and vision to help guide his child toward becoming the best grown-up the child can be.

                                            Be that. Be her Daddy.

                                            [–]reiduh 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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                                            Creatures of rationalization, call me "mi Papi".

                                            [–]BooksofMagic 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                                            A father stands against his child's emotional outbursts because he has the child's best interests at heart. He is a benevolent leader. He rewards good behavior and punishes bad behavior. He uses his superior experience and vision to help guide his child toward becoming the best grown-up the child can be.

                                            This is exactly how I parent my kids.

                                            [–]Jade196 3 points4 points  (2 children)

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                                            I'm a woman, and if my partner started referring to himself as my "Daddy", my lady parts would dry up in 3 seconds flat.

                                            That's a little too Oedipus complex for me...

                                            [–]infapwetrust 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                            You are the minority

                                            [–]I_like_to_debate -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                                            You're my kinda gal :)

                                            [–]I_like_to_debate 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                                            I don't want to be my wife's father.

                                            [–]nsummy -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                                            I think you've watched too many Dolemite movies

                                            [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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                                            I agree with most of This except for the generation bashing part. A lot of men on here are 18-35 and they aren't better when it comes to being spoiled as kid. Off course a kid is going to cry when you take away its candy, kids have always done that. And spoiled brats have been around for ages in numbers, they're not just appearing out of nowhere. I've seen a lot of adult men behaving like children by cheating on their loving wife, so being an adult doesn't make you better, your actions and the way you behave do. And this part of the red pill keeps annoying me, the "this generation is fucked" circklejerk. And don't bring me evidence of how this generation fucked because you better keep in mind that your (grand)fathers complained about your generation and so on and so on, even the fucking Greeks complained about "todays youth" and how fucked they are.

                                            [–]1ThumpNuts 11 points12 points  (4 children)

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                                            I think TRP just entered a new "Enlightenment Period."

                                            Check out the break-through posts lately about treating women like children and such. I'm in the process of actually applying this in all aspects of my life and I noticed:

                                            A. I usually did this without really knowing I was doing this, and I was usually very successful.

                                            B. Now that I am aware that I treat women like children I am more effective at it and am able to increase the amount of 'parental influence' stronger AND more subtly, with more success.

                                            C. The women in my life I did not treat like children did not benefit ME in the least, AND did not benefit FROM me at all. PLUS, I have the reputation of being an aloof jerk, arrogant, or a shy and passive guy -- when I am far from any of those things.

                                            I really think this revelation is an important one [maybe not the 'Holy Grail'] and may blow up [in a good way] the effectiveness of TRP movement.

                                            [–]TRP-Talk 6 points7 points  (3 children)

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                                            Your 3rd point got me thinking...

                                            The contempt that women feel for beta males is because beta males, rather than embodying the role of sexualized pseudo-fathers, inappropriately expect women to be sexualized pseudo-mothers. Beta males behave like adult children who supplicate to their pseudo-mothers hoping for sex, because that was how they received attention from their mothers. Naturally, women find such childish behavior in adult males absolutely repulsive. The absence of alpha male role models for young boys to aspire to means that boys learn to receive what meager attention they can from being pathetic. Do not women complain that beta males are clingy, needy, pathetic, whiny and childish?

                                            It sounds awfully weird, but: Women don't want to fuck men who behave like children. They want to fuck men who behave like fathers.

                                            [–]Daredfenomeno 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                                            This is absolutely fucking genius. When you said the beta=want pseudo-mothers thing my head exploded.

                                            [–]dawg826 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                                            Do yourself a favor and read ALL of it.

                                            http://members.optushome.com.au/davidquinn000/Exposition.html

                                            edit: Meant it for daredfenomeno but a great read for anyone.

                                            [–]jjshinobi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                            Treating them as a pseudo-sister, and having subtle pseudo-sibling rivalry doesn't work for LTRs either.

                                            [–]willyfresh916 9 points10 points  (1 child)

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                                            This is turning so many gears for me right now. It's all coming together. It's all making sense.

                                            [–]reiduh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                                            It seriously has always made sense, now!

                                            [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

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                                            SIDEBAR

                                            [–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                                            Its not just what we say. My main one is half my age, and she has flat out told me she wants the kind of dynamic TRP extols. Me being more of a father figure, having abundance, not rising to her bullshit, and enforcing limits and expectations of behavior for her.

                                            [–]TeasingPenguin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                                            No study or proof but I've always heard the old saying, "Girls like someone who reminds them of their father"

                                            Maybe not physically but psychologically

                                            [–]1Hyooge 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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                                            It's why there's occasionally chat about a male/female relationship is very like a father/daughter relationship. There is respect and mutual love. There is strength and a guiding hand on the father's side, but not a treatment of immaturity towards the girl.

                                            Subtle leadership ignites comfort, and I have found that the more I appear in control and stress free around girls I know, the more satisfied and safe the girl feels in my company.

                                            It isn't sexist to say men are naturally physically stronger than women and this alludes to the fact that women want a man stronger than them because without that, they'd be at risk of other males controlling them even in a lawful society.

                                            [–]fruitofmyloom 1 point2 points  (2 children)

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                                            I was watching the video of the cruise and this father is a bad, bad father. There is a simple solution: if the cruise is for two nights, they swap nights.

                                            This father has clearly set up a dynamic where one wins and the other loses.

                                            Not only that, he makes a huge deal of it.

                                            [–]FugitiveAlpha 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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                                            he also allows her to hit him and his camera.

                                            [–]fruitofmyloom 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                                            I honestly didn't watch past him goading the kid. Nothing she does after compares to his failure as a father.

                                            [–]mercuryg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                                            it essentially means he knows how to handle kids! It's almost like she's screening you for being a good parent for her kids!

                                            Mind = Blown

                                            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                            Never having kids...

                                            [–]TheYellowPill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                            Dear god. Is that a baby unicorn?!

                                            [–]Hardparty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                            WHO'S YOUR DADDY?

                                            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                            This thought occurred to me a while ago, so I put "read a parenting book" on my to-do list. Any suggestions?

                                            [–]pi-py-pie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                            This link you posted leads me to believe I may have found the original source of the massively universal cultural phenomenon that sprang out of seemingly no where - that what is apparent is explained by the opposite. Act masculine? Compensating for something emasculating (tiny penis). Willing to fight someone? It's because you're scared. Don't support gay marriage*? It's because you're secretly gay. It's all born in the nonsensical bullshit that lack of self-esteem is the root cause of aggression. This explains a lot.

                                            *Just for the record, I support gay marriage, not that it matters. I only mention my opinion to illustrate my neutrality in observation.

                                            [–]wtfbiscuit 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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                                            I have huge respect for that little girl at the end.

                                            [–]_social_caterpillar[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                            Yeah the dad is kind of a dick.

                                            [–]RidleySmith 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                            You sir, did indeed just blow my fucking mind

                                            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                            Sometimes I wonder if women were to actually put their emotions aside they would probably benefit a lot from this discourse. I honestly think red pill'ers are just analyzing why things turn the way they do. We are trying to understand an area that has a stigma because it involves 50% of the population and that is why I find it so fascinating. I think this way of thinking is caused by the displacement of men in a time of changing cultural norms while women are allowed to stayed static due to chivalry's consequences.

                                            Here is one thing that gets me about all of this. Are these actions manipulative to those that suffer from "Daddy Issues"? I understand the need to analyze why women do the things they do but I think these actions snowball into gender manipulation.

                                            [–]lostale 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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                                            Have you ever encountered a theory called Transactional Analysis? It describes people as having three ego states: the child, the parent and the adult... it may help shed further light to your revelation.

                                            [–]_social_caterpillar[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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                                            Funny you mention it, I actually happened across that concept just yesterday as I was watching a leadership course for work.

                                            [–]watersign -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

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                                            lol, i fucking love this sub. this is so true, not only do women like to be treated like children, they like to be disrespected too

                                            [–][deleted]  (6 children)

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                                            [deleted]

                                              [–]foooow 1 point2 points  (5 children)

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                                              I don't ever want to be called "Dad" while I'm having sex.

                                              Is this some kind of incest-related fetish you have?

                                              [–][deleted]  (4 children)

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                                              [deleted]

                                                [–]I_like_to_debate 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                                Daddy is just as fucked up imho. Whatever floats your bloat though.

                                                [–]foooow -1 points0 points  (2 children)

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                                                What's the difference between 'dad' and 'daddy'?

                                                "daddy" sounds like incestuous pedophilia.

                                                [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                                                [deleted]

                                                  [–]foooow -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                                                  correct

                                                  [–][deleted] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

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                                                  Makes no fking sense this is not how to get a girl this is how to please a child. doesn't work