top 200 commentsshow all 215

[–]Humble_harpdarp 280 points281 points  (66 children)

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I think you're giving them too much credit. I don't think most females even realize this as true. It would require a degree of self-awareness that's really rare, not to mention it implies malicious forethought and planning for manipulation, which I highly doubt. They just don't like it because it makes them uncomfortable, or they really don't understand it.

In my experience, most girls don't actually realize their behavior. They go through life attractive and fuck guys they're attracted too, right up until their looks fade. When guys stop finding them attractive because their looks fade, that's when they go "Wow why are guys such shallow assholes, I need a sensitive man." So they settle for someone who they don't really find attractive (but has money/stability) and they truly believe it when they say "I've matured now, I value different qualities now." They didn't sit their thinking about how they can get their beta bux, they just end up there. Eventually they'll divorce because an upgrade is available or they just can't stand being with a beta anymore, but they'll rationalize that too.

[–]SariaLystra 85 points86 points  (11 children)

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All this. Women aren't doing anything that they think is particularly malicious. In fact, they've been conditioned since birth to think that they can do anything and men are just their stepping stones. So if you expose it for what it is: hypocritical and manipulative, they undergo cognitive dissonance. How do you reconcile something that you've been doing all your life and think is ok with the reality that it is not? The answer is hamstering.

But another way it can be looked at is simply it doesn't make women look very good. After all, if feminists are all about gender equality, then how can they possibly support this practice openly, a practice that has put women in power over men? Although all ancedotal experience and a good amount of studies and facts would point to this, the women simply reject this because they presuppose feminist doctrine over anything else. This is simply being human: you have an idea of how the world works and when something comes along and tells you the opposite, your normal human instant reaction isn't to be open minded but to immediately reject it. Believe it or not, feminists are human too and they react the same way to avoid cognitive dissonance. Furthermore, shaming the truth also keeps feminism looking good publicly. It kills two birds with one stone.

[–]serialstitcher 67 points68 points  (2 children)

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Third wave/tumblr feminism in a nutshell.

[–]brendeho 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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one of the most frank and solid explanations ever read. thankyou sir

[–]2RedPill4LYF 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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This just kicked the fuck out of all the Feminists in the world. No wonder this thread got brigaded. You know a bunch of fat whores didn't get any sleep last night.

Drown in a river of your female tears, femcunts. You had this coming for a long time.

[–]t21spectre 27 points28 points  (2 children)

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if feminists are all about gender equality

Ask a feminist why, in 50 years of feminism, only men are still required by law to sign up for the draft at 18. Watch that Hamster go nuclear. THAT would be gender equality, but in reality they don't want true "equality," only the benefits of it without the responsibilities or negatives.

[–]Espiritu13 7 points8 points  (1 child)

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Their response is "No one should have to sign up for the draft."

[–]Sanju5 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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xD

[–]Goupidan 0 points1 point  (4 children)

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Could you explain to me what the male strategy is? Aren't males hypergamous too? Find the hottest girl and what not.

I am not sure what to think now.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

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[deleted]

    [–]Goupidan 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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    You make a lot of sense, thanks. I'm still having some trouble understanding the bigger picture though.

    I need some clarification: how is slut shaming (whether done by men, or by women themselves) part of the bigger picture? And is there a double standard where women are slut-shamed, but men aren't?

    /just in the process of swallowing TRP with some trouble formulating my own thoughts now...

    [–]isthatyourdaughter -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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    Could you explain to me what the male strategy is?

    Gene Simmons.

    [–][deleted]  (7 children)

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    [deleted]

      [–][deleted] 24 points25 points  (5 children)

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      They couldn't do it unless the male cooperated.

      [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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      [deleted]

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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        Which is why it is helpful to clue our uninformed buddies in and give them a chance to take the Red Pill, if they will choose to do it.

        It's like that Sopranos episode, 1st season, when the shrink tells Carmella, "At least now you can never say that you weren't told."

        [–]no_face -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

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        Hey, I sent the $4000 weeks ago. Quick, send me the £43 million

        [–]RPSavant -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

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        bingo

        [–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 16 points17 points  (0 children)

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        Without rationalizing away how they use one guy for money, emotional support, time, and the meat of a 'relationship' without giving up the pussy while giving the pussy to a man who provides none of those things, they will realize how shitty it is.

        We strip away the veneer they try to put in place, we show them for what they are by pointing out the actions. They see it as we are calling them horrible people, because if someone did that to them, or one of her female friends, it would be a bad thing. Doing that to some AFC is meaningless and easily hamstered away. They know right from wrong just as we do, but they choose to ignore it because they can, they have to rationalize it away so they don't see themselves as monsters.

        We are hated because we shed light on what they do. They claim we hate them because we don't want to let them use us, while putting the information out there for the AFC to find. When they find it, the gravy train ends and bitches have to work for a living. The emotional tampons are ripped out, then her validation and support vanishes. When she hits the wall and the attention slides down the back side of the bell curve, she has a harder time finding a host to leech her validation and attention from.

        So we are bad men because we try to point out what they do, how they do it, why, and how to avoid being that guy.

        [–]LukeMooney 19 points20 points  (3 children)

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        I agree, there's such little conscious thought by women and most men for that matter, more acting out of biology. Is why I think there's so many generalisations that hold true for such a high percentage of women. As men we're lucky to have the ability of conscious thought and self reflection to even come up with sub and the ideas inside it. Women, don't really think that much, not that unique at all. Which is funny because they say things like "you men are all the same", when in reality it's women that are far more alike.

        I think herd like behaviour that OP mentioned is a big one. The other one, I think exists because of the same reason feminism and misandry exists. And that, shamefully, is because men let it exist. If, every, or most men in positions of power actually said; "Shut up women, you've gone too far now, show some respect" and held frame about it. They would shut up. If most male redditors did something similar, I think the same would happen. It's because we're a minority, and men allow it. It always comes back to us, and by us, I mean the males that endorse the hatred of this sub. Women on issues of gender will nearly always side with women no matter how ridiculous. Men do not.

        [–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (2 children)

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        Most men don't think much either. I know I didn't used to think much.

        [–]2RedPill4LYF 13 points14 points  (1 child)

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        I also used to just agree with whatever women said when I was blue pill because I was trained to suck up to them. I would never disagree with what women thought when I was blue pill. It's no wonder so many manginas have jumped on the hate bandwagon.

        [–]1spicy_fries 13 points14 points  (0 children)

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        Yes, so much of this.

        My blue-pill frame of mind had always been... woman upset = I did something wrong

        [–]1KyfhoMyoba 12 points13 points  (0 children)

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        We know that women have better communication between brain hemispheres than men, but men do better between cortex and limbic system. This is where the hamster is born. All of her sexual strategies are very 'bottom up' sorts of things. Little or no consciousness of the nature of her behavior,which is driven almost entirely by her brain stem, and her cortex makes up some socially and consciously acceptable narrative to keep her sane and not ostracized. Rollo has a great post on the subject: http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/03/war-brides/

        [–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 10 points11 points  (5 children)

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        It goes further than just AFBB. Most female behaviour is an invisible script guided by their emotions. It's very easy for men to take on a solipsistic view of female behaviour. We are mostly naturally logical -- we operate on an If, Then, Else pattern of rational thought.

        Women aren't like that at all, for the most part. They act on how they feel in the given moment. They're not crazy; they simply don't resort to logic first. This explains AFBB, but also hypergamy, LMR, and attraction. There is no logic. I'll use the example of height being a common preference. Logically there is nothing intrinsically better about tall guys (except the odd time you need to reach a tall shelf). Yet biologically she's programmed to mate with tall, strong men. This ensured strong genetics that would continue to propagate, as tall strong men could fight off competition and predators better than scrawny weak ones.

        She's not thinking in this way, but she feels her heartstrings pull when she sees such a guy.

        TL;DR Don't use a male compass to measure up women.

        [–]NorrisYeager 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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        If Then Else? Oh no! We are programmed in FORTRAN? We're doomed man!

        [–]1Watermelon_Salesman -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

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        You're completely wrong on the tall thing, though. A bigger man means more security and protection. I'm 6'7" and all my girlfriends went crazy on the protection thing. They enthusiastically mentioned frequently how safe they felt.

        [–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 2 points3 points  (2 children)

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        That's exactly what I said, not sure where the disagreement lies. She feels safe. Her DNA programs her to feel that way.

        [–]1Watermelon_Salesman -1 points0 points  (1 child)

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        But there is some logic to that, isn't there? If a woman wants to feel safe, isn't the logical thing to look for a strong male?

        You say that the need to feel safe is programming. I think that calling it "programming" a poor choice of words. Programming implies a source for the program. Social conditioning is more like programming. Biology isn't.

        Her need to feel safe is evolutionary. Just like we look for beautiful women, they look for men who can provide security.

        I honestly see nothing wrong with that.

        [–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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        Yes, it's evolutionary, but not necessarily logical. A 5'5" man with a carry licence and 1000 hours of range practice is arguably able to fight off threats far better than a 6'5" man who happens to go to the gym twice a week. The former doesn't cause arousal in most women.

        It stems from even before our tribal hunter-gatherer period, our primitive ancestors would have operated the same way.

        [–][deleted]  (4 children)

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        [deleted]

          [–]iStillEatSnakes 17 points18 points  (3 children)

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          Reading your comment brings back some PTSD, i wanna punch my younger self in the throat.

          [–]PM_ME_BOOTYSHOTS 16 points17 points  (1 child)

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          ugh, same.

          That shit hurts still. Never again man, never again.

          The really fucked up part is that after I finally stopped wanting the sex or relationship (the crazy grew strong and then she had a kid) but I actually turned into her friend, like a real honest to god friend, and I thought she was my friend too. I was the godfather to her kid, I hung out with her brother. I thought she was actually my for real friend, and then she threw herself at me while drunk telling me she loved me and she wanted to try to be together and I turned her down because I DIDN'T WANT TO FUCK UP THE FRIENDSHIP that I spent a decade building out of the ashes of my unrequited desire. She promptly stopped talking to me. Just like that. Done. I heard she's getting married in a few months a bit ago, and the only thing I can think of is that I'm just fucking glad its not to me, cause she is going to destroy this guy's soul.

          Edit: Oh holy shit balls. It just occurred to me that this happened a week after I got a huge promotion and a new car. And now I'm pissed all over again. The day can't end quick enough so I can hit the gym and work this shit out. Beta Bux indeed.

          [–]iStillEatSnakes 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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          You should rename yourself 'pm me bootyshots the bullet dodger'. Because holy shit! Your story is pretty much the standard MO of these bitches. Ohhh new car and more money, my giney just exploded!

          I'll be seeing my unrequited love (we were such good firlds, but when i stopped doing her homework in college the friendship dried up too, betamax to the core). I stayed good vriends with her sister to whose engagement i'll be going in about 3 weeks. Can't wait to ignore the shit out of her all night!

          [–]NorrisYeager -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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          Same here dude. And kick my ass. But what gets me is that I mostly did it to myself. None of these chicks put a gun to my head an forced me.

          That's in the past now. Never again. And my son will not go through that either, I guarantee it.

          [–]DarkCircle 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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          I think you are right. The cognitive dissonance is so strong in a lot of these women that they won't accept that is what they are doing. Some women hate the red pill because if they swallowed it, they would have to realize they are crap people and give up a lot of benefits to be a decent person.

          [–]everyone_wins 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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          You nailed it here. Women have such low levels of foresight and self-awareness that OP's theory is just a projection of male thought processes onto women. Nothing could be further from the truth.

          [–]enticingasthatmaybe 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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          100% agree. Women aren't brutally cunning Dark Lords of the Sith.

          [–]zephyrprime -1 points0 points  (1 child)

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          Everything you said is true and nothing you said contradicts the op. They all realize it on a subconscious level. Very few realize it on a conscious level. The op doesn't think the women consciously sit around thinking stuff like this. However, make no mistake, even though they are not consciously aware of it, their subconscious awareness of it is extremely strong. Denying it and guarding the secret is part of the program too.

          [–]NorrisYeager -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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          Strangely enough it makes some kind of sense and I agree.

          [–]Goupidan -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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          You have a good point, but I am curious: what is the male strategy?

          Do young men find the fux with hot girls? I kind of see a contradiction where it's not good if a female does the afbb while she's young, but a guy can spin plates.

          How do we reconcile this?

          [–]Chet_Manly0987 98 points99 points  (22 children)

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          I personally want TRP to stay hated. I like it. I'm tired of wrestling with these people so that they can have a much better quality of life. You don't like TRP? Good. "Nobody wants crowding in Heaven."

          [–]1Zackcid 37 points38 points  (20 children)

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          For a lot of us, we gotta go through hell first, before reaching Heaven. After swallowing the pill, the average newbie will realize that he is bottom-barrel SMV and that he's got a long way to go. He'll look around and see the same alpha bros fucking every fuckable girl in vicinity. He'll feel bitterness and frustration, but he'll still try to make those initial gains. He'll hit the gym, but not see any aesthetic gains until the 6-month mark, by that time though, he'll be approaching heaven.

          [–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (18 children)

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          I think that's why the PU stuff is attractive at first. One of the commenters on here said that you can't be truly RP until you have reached the final tier of Maslow self-actualization. That's true. BP is so demoralizing to men they need to recover some pride before they can ditch the bitterness and reach enlightenment. I look forward to achieving that final tier, but I'm not a snowflake so I can't get there by magic... I've got to earn it the same way everybody else does.

          [–]2RedPill4LYF 7 points8 points  (14 children)

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          Talk about walking through the valley of the shadow of death. Taking the red pill is utter hell at first, but what emerges on the other side is a new man.

          [–]boscoist 4 points5 points  (5 children)

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          Taking the red pill is utter hell at first, but what emerges on the other side is a new man.

          No, your crippling lack of experience with its implementation sucks at first. But it is entirely a learning experience, and if you go in with the "slogging through hell" attitude its going to take longer and suck more. I may need a new post tonight when I have time, but I'm beginning to think that people on here are "taking" the pill and thinking things will get better quickly after working out for 6 months. Thats not the case, things will get easier with your appearance, but you still have to learn and internalize being conversational with people. Its purely accomplished by practice in the real world and I feel most of the people subscribed here are not taking that step, instead a few people make Field Reports of the odd success they had and not counting the path that got them there.

          [–]2RedPill4LYF 14 points15 points  (4 children)

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          For me, it was a confirmation of all my worst fears. It was all there in black and white clear as crystal. Prior to finding the sub, I'd been slowly coming to accept this way of thinking, but after coming here it was like an explosion of answers solidifying my notions. It also stripped me of a lot of dysfunctional behaviors. I could literally feel my old self dying during this process.

          Who I am today is the person I've always wanted to be. I have absolutely nothing holding me down anymore. There's no reason for me to fear shaming language. It's all just manipulation. I don't not hear it. I don't not feel the pain of it, I just don't care. I understand it for what it is, and so much more.

          I'm okay with being wrong. I'm okay with where I'm at in life. I'm happy with what I've got. The best part is now that I don't beat around the bush and just go for what I want, I'm fuckin get'n it. Even when things don't work out as planned, I still have this sense of self-validation because my happiness no longer depends on how happy I can make others with me.

          There's just so much to say that I probably don't make a whole lot of sense to you, and that's alright. I know I make sense to myself. That's something that always made me worry before was not being understood. I felt like if I didn't say all the right things, the world would come to an end and people would hate me and I'd be a failure. It was so silly of me.

          I've gone a few steps beyond accepting the red pill. I'm finally able to really get my own thoughts out on the table, and I don't give a shit what anyone thinks of them. In fact, it's interesting watching the range of reactions to everything I have to say nowadays.

          You're right in what you say. I didn't mean to imply taking the red pill will magically change you overnight. I meant it as the process of accepting red pill views is like going through hell at first. Once you finally start to wake up to reality, it's like you just drop all of these dumb weights that are holding you down. It's a mental reconstruction of all your thought processes. You learn so much about yourself and the world around you. Everything starts making a new kind of sense you just couldn't see when you were still blue.

          I'm still learning. That won't stop.

          [–]FreudianBulldog 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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          I like the Red Pill for the honesty it affords, but I think you have to have a balance between red and blue. Gotta dream with your eyes wide open, kind of deal.

          I think if you're too strong of a red, you have the potential to lose that magic. And I completely understand a lot of the disenfranchised young men who are waking up realizing they've missed the starting gun and all the fun.

          Either way I'm not really comfortable with the potentiality of losing that magic, to be quite hoenst. I want the best of all worlds.

          [–]2RedPill4LYF 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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          Becoming red pill is what brought the magic into my life.

          [–]FreudianBulldog 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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          haha! aye. it's a battle of ships on the high seas, afterall. gotta pick a side, i feel yah.

          [–]LibertarianLibertine -1 points0 points  (7 children)

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          I consider myself somewhat of a newb, and damn I don't know if it's due to the pill but I've been borderline depressed lately with my world view shattered.

          EVERYTHING is different now

          [–]2RedPill4LYF -1 points0 points  (6 children)

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          You've got to find something new to live for. You now see that seeking the approval of women has been an enormous waste in your life. Do a bit of soul searching. Think about what puts a smile on your face.

          [–]LibertarianLibertine 1 point2 points  (5 children)

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          I have. Nevertheless it takes time to process that my future will be very different than imagined before.

          [–]2RedPill4LYF -1 points0 points  (4 children)

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          I still am surprised by it after a year. It's a very different life than I was led to believe.

          [–]LibertarianLibertine 0 points1 point  (3 children)

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          It feels cold when hope is eradicated.

          [–]2RedPill4LYF 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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          You're still coming to terms with women not operating the way they claim to operate. You need to start living for you. The secret of happiness is the willingness to allow yourself to be positive. Stop judging yourself and dwelling on all the lies you've been told. You're free now.

          In a way, this is a blessing in disguise. There's no more impossible expectations from women that you have to worry about. You don't have to keep judging yourself. Do what you want and enjoy yourself because it's what you want to be doing.

          [–]footballtrav89 -1 points0 points  (2 children)

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          final tier of Maslow self-actualization.

          Just googled characteristics of this. Major ego trip...

          [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

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          I don't understand. I'm fairly certain I am not ego-tripping, as I noted I have not achieved this tier. Clarification?

          [–]footballtrav89 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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          I misunderstood you and you misunderstood me. Don't worry about it haha.

          [–]NorrisYeager -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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          It used to be that you could tell the caliber of a man by his enemies. Being hated by feminists is a badge of honor. Any man with a moral compass will relish this, amuse himself in tormenting those hags. They only have the power over them we allow them to have. They have shown to be a destructive force in society. The noble goals they may have had 50 years ago have been long ago reached and now it is a blight on society, a hateful ideology.

          [–]pushuptonofap 39 points40 points  (4 children)

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          yup. I have posed this to women a few times and they have said that men shouldn't know this stuff. They then hamster it by saying all this knowledge will make a real relationship lack genuineness.

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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          [deleted]

            [–]Johnny10toes 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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            Ignorance is bliss.

            [–]FreudianBulldog 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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            People dream with their eyes wide open all the time. Totally doable. You can have the best of all worlds. But if you start feeling your eyes sag, wake the fuck up.

            [–]iStillEatSnakes 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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            Lol, genuineness, new beer flavor?
            On a serious note, fuck that. Knowledge is power and you can't ignore facts that make you look bad because its not 'genuine' enough.

            [–]Hormander 22 points23 points  (0 children)

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            women want to get fucked by weightlifting frat bros who give them dark triad gina tingles, and want to get flowers, money, emotional support, and post-wall commitment the weaker men who don't have so many sexual options.

            http://abstrusegoose.com/50

            [–]Audiodragon 19 points20 points  (3 children)

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            Yes exactly.

            I would like to add, however, that many women do this instinctively or in full hypocrisy, meaning they either aren't even aware of it or are hamstering away by believing their own lies.

            So when you show them the truth, they cannot handle it. This is why judging them is futile. It leads to nothing.

            The same thing happens with passive men too, they can't handle it. Their whole life they have been taught that they should be nice, caring, giving, they should provide, etc. Notice how none of these things are action based. They are all passive. So when you tell them they need to confront, to struggle, to fight, to lift, to change, they can't handle the truth. It's so alien, so foreign that many prefer to stay in their fantasy world and keep getting disappointed.

            [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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            [deleted]

              [–]diogopim -1 points0 points  (1 child)

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              I always thought you should not confront them with the truth.

              [–]cascadecombo 14 points15 points  (0 children)

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              Pretty much, it'll never be flat out said, but they will confirm when spoken about in a different way.

              TRP is too straightforward so those who read it become shocked and upset it's spelt out so plainly. Just like women like to use soft words and soft tones when speaking about something they think will upset others they wish to have these topics wrapped in flowery good smelling gift paper hoping that the hard truth will be softened by everything else.

              [–]rebuildingMyself 20 points21 points  (5 children)

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              Don't forget the unspoken thought that nobody wants to wife up the town slut and women lie about their number

              [–]1Zackcid 24 points25 points  (27 children)

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              I'm of the same opinion, but I doubt any women would admit to this. This is most likely happening on the subconscious level. But seriously, knowledge is power and women knows this too well. Women weren't gifted with superior physical strength, so they had to gain power through other means. Those other means are social relations and knowledge.

              Think about it, if a group of women created a sub and started discussing sexual strategy and even threw in there a bit of misandry, would our jimmies seriously be rustled? I know I wouldn't give a fuck. Go ahead and share your ideas, ladies! We've got nothing to hide.

              On the other hand, women would have a lot to hide. A lot of their power stems from ignorance in the male population. But the moment guys wake up and understand what's going on...suddenly the tide has changed. I'm still a little bothered that most women feel no guilt about keeping men in ignorance and this illusion. Back in my beta days, I remember asking this chick that I've been orbiting "Mélanie, do you think I'm...lovable? I mean, do you think a girl would like to be my gf someday?" "Of course you are! Any girl would be lucky to have a nice guy like you!"

              She knew in the back of her mind what the truth was though.

              [–]rebuildingMyself 24 points25 points  (22 children)

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              The old "I need a bf like you, just not you" line. My favorite

              [–]1Zackcid 6 points7 points  (21 children)

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              Such a Classic, I bet the term "Hamstering" came from this. How else are females able to contradict themselves and be so oblivious to it like that. We had to come up with a term, somehow Hamster came to be

              [–]rebuildingMyself 45 points46 points  (16 children)

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              Not enough vagina-brain-mouth processing.

              My gf actually dropped this one on me early in the relationship:

              I thought I would end up with someone tall, dark, and handsome but I found you.

              Somehow this was supposed to be a compliment. Handled it like a champ (at least I think) by smiling and saying what don't we break up right here and now and you go find that person because my time is valuable to me. Got apologies the rest of the night and she felt like shit the next day. Great sex as well. You have to be talking out of your vagina to say something like that.

              [–]Menadian 22 points23 points  (14 children)

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              Well that is some serious dread-game gone right there :)

              [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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              [deleted]

                [–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                We got brigaded just yesterday, probably a remnant of that. Pay no mind to the downvotes, /u/Menadian is correct in his assessment.

                [–]dvrzero 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                Look, I realized that most down voted stuff is just brigaded/botted down.

                It'll even out when people read it. Just do your part and upvote good posts.

                Reddit is broken right now, there's rampant use of bots and no-lifers to down vote this sub and several others.

                We actually have enough people here that click arrows to still get a decent score on comments and threads.

                [–]VaselineCoveredCat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                This is what the red pill is all about, now please tell me why menadian was downvoted for essentially saying "good job"

                Because saying good job adds absolutely fuck all to the discussion, an upvote achieves the same thing without singling yourself out as a special snowflake who's praise is more important than the 5 dudes who upvoted before you, and if he gets even one upvote his piece of shit post will be above the guy who actually takes time to post something worthwhile. I know it feels like you want everyone getting on inside the sub with all the flak it catches from the rest of reddit, but reddiquette still applies.

                [–]d3gu -2 points-1 points  (9 children)

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                What's the difference between a shit-test and dread-game?

                Because I would say that

                what don't we break up right here and now and you go find that person because my time is valuable to me

                is definitely a shit test!

                [–]Dokkobro -3 points-2 points  (4 children)

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                Because it was in response to what her vagina said to him. And because he allowed her the freedom to be without him, a shit test is to purposefully make the other feel bad to gain control. I really don't see how anyone can't see the difference, but you may be a woman so idfk.

                [–]d3gu -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

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                Wow, it was an honest fucking query man. Go have a nap. Come back when you're less agitated.

                [–]Dokkobro -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

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                And that was an honest "fucking" answer Internet warrior. Ask an open ended question that makes you look like a bitch in a room full of dudes and get mad when one calls you out. You must be Weinstein.

                [–]RedFlagsAreGood -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

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                The difference is that he would be OK with the woman taking him at his word and actually leaving. Generally, taking a shit test at face value means that you fail it.

                [–]d3gu -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

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                Thanks for actually replying properly! I hadn't heard the term 'dread game' before and was confused.

                I suppose if someone fails or ignores a shit-test, they are actually winning in real life :D been there, done that! Haha, oh the tantrums and the wailing and the panicked phone calls. Wish I'd recorded it!

                [–]1KyfhoMyoba 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                Props.

                [–]iStillEatSnakes 0 points1 point  (3 children)

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                I don't like the word hamster/hamstering. I like hamsters, but the new definition kinda makes me not like actual hamsters. Its just word association, i know.

                [–]d3gu -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                Hamsters are awesome. I agree.

                [–]1Zackcid -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                We could replace it with a dog chasing it's own tail in circles I suppose... But dogs are too cool and masculine to be associated to the mental gymnastics women make.

                [–]1Zackcid -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                We could replace it with a dog chasing it's own tail in circles I suppose... But dogs are too cool and masculine to be associated to the mental gymnastics women make.

                [–]Complecs 13 points14 points  (1 child)

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                Some years ago, one of my ex girlfriends told me that 'her boyfriend needs to take boyfriend lessons from you!'. I was proud of it, for years. I considered it the highest of compliments, I didn't realize until just now what that actually meant. Damn.

                [–]1Zackcid 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                LOL. Crazy how 1 thing can be the exact opposite. Kinda like how (after discovering RP), I got called an asshole by this girl and I took it as the best compliment I've ever gotten. Still is, too! ;)

                [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

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                She tries to set you up with her friends, but none of them want you either unless they've hit the Wall.

                Of course they don't necessarily understand why betas are attractive to them (not fuckable, but attractive) at that point, but when a woman is ready to settle she'll settle for a provider.

                [–]dvrzero 11 points12 points  (0 children)

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                "You need to find yourself a nice doctor, or lawyer"

                Ninja: it aint cuz they're smart, see.

                [–]Schrodingersdawg 20 points21 points  (0 children)

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                Nicely written. We all know this in the back of our minds, but an occasional reminder is nice.

                [–]Ralt 8 points9 points  (2 children)

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                "You guys shouldn't know this stuff."

                This is the simple truth. I loaned a like minded friend my copy of The Rational Male to read over but he left it lying around and his SO started reading it. She is naturally a RPW leaning person but her initial reaction was "I don't want you reading this". She also however, talked with me about it and how true it all really is. She just didn't like that it had all been written down and put in a place for males to read and study and it was off-putting to have hypergamy so bluntly laid out in black and white.

                [–]∞ Red Pill VisionaryRollo-Tomassi 12 points13 points  (1 child)

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                Wait till she reads the next volume I'm writing…

                [–]Ralt -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                I eagerly await. However, get a better editor, your years of ideas and work deserve it.

                [–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

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                You mean that when I was composing her love letters, buying her plane tickets so she could visit her boyfriend on the other side of the country, being her shoulder to cry on when she got dumped by her boyfriend, holding her purse while she was getting fucked in the bathroom stall in the club, assuring her she was beautiful and perfect like a wish wrapped in a dream, and being her faithful orbiter all those years... she didn't ever have any intention of having sex with me?

                It's worse than that. The beta spends a lot of time convincing himself that he doesn't really want sex, because he shouldn't want it, because that's not what women want him to want... he should want love and romance, not that dirty gross sex that the girls so obviously don't want (with him, but they won't tell him why) because they talk all the time about how they really don't want sex that much. Which is of course exactly what we would expect of them: obfuscation layered on top of obfuscation.

                This is where the hover hand comes from. It's not just fear. It's fear plus the belief that the woman wouldn't want to be touched without her permission plus the belief that he himself would want to touch that woman because it might make her uncomfortable.

                Layers upon layers of BS that today's poor guys are swallowing for their entire lives.

                [–]1 Endorsed Contributorjsl2837 16 points17 points  (3 children)

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                Natural alphas don't need the red pill. They just run on autopilot and it works most of the time.

                From females' POV, if:

                • You need external knowledge to help you decipher females

                • You are painstakingly discussing the red pill with them, like you have something to prove, rather than happily banging pussy like an alpha would be

                Then you are a beta. And anything that comes out of a beta's mouth is creepy and untrue to them.

                They can hamster away and cover up the dirty truth of AFBB at the same time, so they're killing two birds with one stone.

                This is why I think RPers should never discuss RP concepts with people in real life unless you're already spinning plates or otherwise preselected - and even then it's a huge pain in the ass. You run a huge risk of being perceived as a beta loser if you're an Average Frustrated Chump.

                Even the godfathers of the red pill like Heartiste, Rollo, and Vox Day get denigrated as pseudointellectual mental masturbaters by red pill denialists looking to tear down RP concepts by any underhanded means possible. So what chance is the average red piller going to have with these prejudiced folks? No chance at all.

                Add in the white knights looking for female approval, and the natural alphas who are all too happy to humiliate a sociosexual competitor, and you're fucking yourself.

                [–]bossbang 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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                This needs to be it's own post. This is exactly why one should avoid preaching red pill. Yes, RP ideology should spread. But it needs to be disseminated in the right way due to it's nature.

                Delivered at the wrong point in your swallow or to someone who isn't actively looking for answers themselves is asking to nuke your image to that person, along with all the consequences that comes with that.

                Seriously, make this a standalone post.

                [–]Drafapula -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                Good post... NEVER talk about the RP with anyone who you value / contributes to your social status... I have made this mistake before... terrible terrible mistake to make

                [–]CreepAcceptance -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

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                I consider myself fortunate that a few of my closest friends have reached a RP style mindset independently and when together we now hash out a lot of the finer points. While we don't always agree, it's great to sit around a campfire with a few beers and argue about life, work, motorbikes and girls. I'd strongly recommend everyone on TRP has a few solid bros as it's absolutely invaluable.

                Otherwise outside of TRP I have no reason to discuss TRP except in vague principle by the everyday jargon with which people are already familiar (can't make a ho a housewife for example) or in sharp succinct social commentary when you need to demonstrate for some reason that you know the game and won't be played.

                [–]Dreamtrain 8 points9 points  (4 children)

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                You know I've only found disdain for TRP on the Internet. I've talked about it (obviously not "so this is something called red pill") with friends, with female friends, even my own mother who instilled in myself many things that made me hardcore BP for a good chunk of my life. Only my best friend who insists on being one of the guys and that male and female brains are the same has disagreed with me.

                [–]1bradyo2 14 points15 points  (1 child)

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                You know I've only found disdain for TRP on the Internet. I've talked about it (obviously not "so this is something called red pill")

                There's been many, many times here where we've seen direct references to RP theory on places like /r/askmen /r/askwomen etc, but because they don't use RP 'buzzwords', people laud it like it's the fucking 10 commandments.

                [–]1Gavlan_Wheel 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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                Only my best friend who insists on being one of the guys and that male and female brains are the same

                In my anthropology class, they straight up said this is true. They said that if you compare women and men all over the world and compare average abilities in everything, that it comes out the same.

                I actually believed this, because you know, college.

                [–]Hoodwink -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

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                Anthropology can be really good. If you've been watching TRP, you would have seen that "Feminist Biology" course, right? Well, I applaud actually differentiating when feminists get their hands on a subject because Anthropology has a lot of B.S. in it from feminists and it's mixed in with some gems - problem is that if you're young, you can't tell the bullshit from the science unless you get some experience. The same thing with subjects like Sociology. Old school sociology was fucking red-pill.

                [–]Drafapula 7 points8 points  (2 children)

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                good post, but most of us were never shoulders to cry on

                we simply didnt realize what women value in men

                1. looks... looks, and more looks --- ie the genetic indication of good genes

                2. social status -- again the genetic indication of good genes

                3. money --- again the genetic indication of a strong mind and intelligence

                basically we thought it was all about what we do or say.... its not. women were comfortable with the idea of pua because it never went far enough and played right into the orbiting beta rom com ugly guy gets hor girl narrative that society supports whole heartedly.

                now betas are learning the science behind alpha... the effects of testosterone, and facial surgery, frame, escorts --> we are learning how to be alpha and go against our very genetics..

                AND THIS SCARES WOMEN.... NO WOMAN WANTS TO GET FUCKED BY A MAN SHE PERCEIVES TO BE ALPHA WHO IS ACTUALLY AN UNDERLYING BETA..... THIS IS WHY REDPILL PISSES OFF ALL WOMEN.

                [–]1 Endorsed Contributorjsl2837 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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                Yes. Women are working hard to expose, humiliate, and eliminate the synthetic alphas. The massive rustling of jimmies is a macro-scale shit-test of whether the so-called synthetic alphas have the organic cojones to resist the predations of the femcoms i.e. feminist commies. Cultural warfare as mating ritual. Everything is sex.

                [–]bossbang -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                Another nail hit on the head. They consider a beta who swallows red pill and changing his behavior deception. They feel "tricked".

                [–]∞ Red Pill VisionaryRollo-Tomassi 9 points10 points  (1 child)

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                I can sum up in 4 letters why TRP is hated and/or misunderstood…

                tl:dr

                [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                Correct. Side note, I'm about 100 pages into TRM and I just wanted to say thank you for compiling everything. The book is excellent and I've had at least 20 "holy shit" moments.

                Thanks again.

                [–]Endorsed Contributornyrp 11 points12 points  (16 children)

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                I think men do not ferociously guard whatever is the male equivalent of this secret.

                That we prefer young, attractive women is well known and unveiled.

                Two different types, so unparallel mechanisms.

                [–]1Zackcid 20 points21 points  (15 children)

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                The two sexual strategies are unfortunately not equivalent. Every female on the planet knows what's attractive and how to increase her SMV. Look outside, every bitch is walking around in big butt leggings, short-skirts, low-cut tops, and finding a woman without make up is nearly impossible. They're dealing with visual cues and it's common knowledge to them.

                But us...it gets a lot more complicated. What makes us attractive is a mixture of status, dominance, wit, vibe, savyness, etc. It's easy to be misled and BPers have been lied to because of te confusion.

                [–]dvrzero 5 points6 points  (2 children)

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                Haha, no you're silly.

                Women are more sensitive right? Why do we attribute to malice what can be explained by just not wanting to hurt a beta's feelings?

                "Just be yourself", " you're perfect, a woman would be lucky to have you", etc. is just avoiding saying "stop eating so much cheetos fatass" because when you say that to someone who considers you a friend they stop buying you drinks and shit. You're weak if you can't take care of yourself and supplicate women for the hope of scraps.

                I don't get why guys get so angry at women at all. They're literally just saying what makes us feel better rather than helping us fixing us. Because the second you say "lose weight, shave neckbeard, stop wearing printed t-shirts" you get the beta male response of 'well, they should love me for me!' - which is exactly what a woman will say to you up until she is post wall. Then 'love me for me!' Becomes her fuckin mating call.

                This may be disjointed because I can only see my last two typed lines.

                [–]1Zackcid 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                I think both our comments are complementary and truthful. My main argument was not about malice, but rather how confusing and vague sexual attraction to males is. With women, it's generally straight forward: look-good. Have big tits, etc.

                I'm saying that with guys, it gets a bit tricky because it's subtle things like status, (perceived) popularity, personality, etc. With so many factors coming into play, it's no wonder women and men in the Blue Pill world are so confused about what works and what doesn't.

                [–]enticingasthatmaybe -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                "lose weight, shave neckbeard, stop wearing printed t-shirts"

                Because this is by far the better advice. Men generally would prefer to be told that they are making mistakes so they can stop fucking making them.

                [–]ColdEiric 6 points7 points  (5 children)

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                And just like that... the veil is lifted, and the bux stop.

                And just like that, the unladylike behaviour will also stop. And that is one of the reasons why I don't care.

                But I will of course, keep my mouth shut about TRP.

                [–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (3 children)

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                Why keep quiet about it? I'll start calling them on their shit, because IDGAF what they think. I don't need them.

                [–]isthatyourdaughter 16 points17 points  (0 children)

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                Why keep quiet about it?

                Because going around talking about social dynamics can easily backfire and make the person seem like a weirdo. Better to demonstrate your social acumen. Show, don't tell.

                [–]ColdEiric 5 points6 points  (1 child)

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                Because if you look at the 48 laws of power, you'll notice that sometimes it is best to if we would smile and agree with the bullshit, and sometimes it best to pull our cocks out and piss on the bullshit.

                I don't give a fuck either, but neither of us want yet another zealous, stupid whiteknight trying to chop our heads off. We already have 99 problems, haven't we?

                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                Good point. There's a time for everything.

                [–]d3gu -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

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                I think 'beta' isn't something people can decide just like that. I think it's a personality, which can only be changed through actual positive decison-making.

                That's like saying, 'Ssh don't tell the shy guys that confident men have more luck getting women'. They know.

                [–]Patriarchal_Bondage 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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                like a wish wrapped in a dream

                Died at this. Succinctly written, refereces Orwell with

                groupthink

                and is a spot on assessment in my opinion. Solid piece.

                [–]hohamocha 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                The only time a woman will fuck a beta is during college. When they are drunk. Alcohol raises a woman's testosterone and also inhibits her natural instincts of only letting alphas in her. Therefore, when she's shit faced drunk, she's willing to fuck 80% of men, as opposed to only the top 20% when she's sober. And women usually only get shit faced drunk in college. After that, it is extremely hard for betas to find sex.

                [–]TehFuggernaut 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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                Patrice O'Neal lays this out very well. He studied it because he was a fat guy that wanted to bang hot chicks. In one segment on a podcast I remember him saying something along the lines of," Guys, society isn't teaching women how to behave. So its your job to teach her how to act right, so that when you break up - I don't have to deal with her bullshit."

                [–]1mr_throwz 1 point2 points  (3 children)

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                Here's the thing with all of this.

                There are a few different "levels" of human social organization. I'll start with the oldest, which hasn't existed for many thousands of years.

                The oldest level of human social organization had it's day when human beings were still a very young species. (By "human", please interpret that as any species belonging to the genus "homo"). Now, I'm unclear if homo sapiens were actually ever in this level of organization - if we were, it was very early on and vanished shortly after the invention of fire and the "tribe". In this level of human social organization, we still very much resemble chimpanzees or other primates. There are a few alpha males, and a few lesser alpha or greater betas. These account for roughly 40% of the male population - because historically only 40% of our (male) "ancestors" produced offspring. You can surmise that a few alphas accounted for the majority of that 40%, with the lesser alphas and greater betas accounting for a smaller number. The rest of the men either died, or did not reproduce. In this level of existence, human beings are still very much living "in the body" - we interact with our environment with a small edge of intelligence (tools, fire, tracking, etcetc) but survival still very much depends, for both male and female, on physical robustness. Only the biggest baddest dudes reproduced. But then humans continued to evolve mentally, and began to live more "in the mind".

                Now enter the tribe. Humans have been getting physically weaker, but smarter, for a while now. Physical strength no longer keeps the lesser males in check. The lesser males can form alliances and kill the alpha males if they want. Weapons, numbers, and intelligence have evened the odds. And the lesser males are now intelligent enough that they can live on their own in small bands of "rogue males". Men, truly, do not need women. Only the species needs women. The TRIBE needs women. But women, who are weaker than ever now, need men to protect and provide for them. 40 males cannot watch over 100 females, 80 of which are reproductive. So by extension, the TRIBE needs men. The tribe needs male labor and male protection, but the male does not need the tribe. The solution: Marriage. In their supreme intelligence, human beings created a social custom whereby even a beta male, who while not being the strongest are smartest is still strong ENOUGH, and smart ENOUGH, to provide for a woman and her children (or able to provide enough for the TRIBE to divvy up the products of male labor) and to defend the tribe from attacks (attacks from rampaging bands of rogue betas who are raping and pillaging camps and villages). This male who is good ENOUGH gets sexual access. On the tribal level, there are still customs, rituals of "manhood", which test males to make sure they are ENOUGH for 1 female. Males who cannot pass the test cannot marry. Leftover women go to the alpha men (harems). Mostly everyone is happy. There is a loose division of labor and more equality between the sexes. We live in grass huts. Things are still looser and less formal, more liberal - this keeps us in grass huts. But then something happens... domestication of plant and animal. Just as man has domesticated both himself, and women (domesticating her innate hypergamy), he domesticates plants and animals. On the tribal level, because of the smaller population size, the animalistic (the ape) is held in tighter check; reputation and honor are more important.

                Now enter CIVILIZATION. Farming (agriculture), has really allowed human social organization to bloom and blossom. We no longer live in grass huts - we live in permanent cottages, and eventually, towns and cities. More male labor is needed more than ever. Therefore, the standards - the rituals of manhood - are less strict and even vanish in some areas. More men can marry, more men spawn children, and the population rapidly expands. Because of this rapid population expansion, two things happen: Anonymization of citizens (reputation and honor less important because people are more mobile and can move between social groups and "get lost in the crowd"). Civilization massively, even more so than the tribe (which was more liberal sexually and with labor division), depends on strict marriage institutions. Men need: jobs, access to resources, women, and sex. Religion is instituted to keep the animalistic and the tribal in check (you no longer face banishment from the tribe, but excommunication from church and community). Men who are disenfranchised (no jobs, no access to women) become more tribal and animalistic - the tribal forces are what lead to revolution and destroy civilization. As a civilization becomes more liberal (moving into an "anonymous tribal life" where women are free to be chimpanzees), it becomes more unstable and eventually collapses (lower birth rate, increasing male disenfranchisement - revolution).

                The reason women hate the red pill is because, if men are aware of this dynamic, women cannot live tribally or animalistically in their youth (alpha fux) and then later, when they're old, go for living civilized (beta bux). It removes the "group anonymization" of women - while that 30-something might not be the women who rejected a betabuxer in his youth, his awakened, unplugged, and associates her with that group - and can reject her and not submit his resources. Feminism is the liberation of women from civilized constraint to indulge in their animalistic hypergamy, and then later settle down with a civilized beta male. Red pill teaches beta males that they can be the rampaging beta rogue and live for himself (MGTOW), or manipulate female instincts and use them for sex, but not surrender resources (PUA). Red pill is literally the the psychic force amongst men that will either a) force women back into being civilized or b) destroy the civilization itself. One of these is a threat to female sexual strategy (alpha fux beta bux) and the other is a threat to the lives of women themselves.

                A long, disorganized, not thoroughly researched but long though of treatise on why Red Pill mindsets are so hated.

                TL;DR there are animal and tribal forces are work within human consciousness and biology, animal instincts being more basic chimpanzee like and older, tribal instincts being more organized with more sexual access for men and less animal consciousness for women, civilization being the most recent and unstable as it has to contend with both these forces and domesticate men and women. Feminism is the "liberation" of women from domestication while still seeking to keep men domesticated - it is literally "female supremacy" to "have it all". Red Pill is the "liberation" of men from domestication to either live for themselves (and not women) via MGTOW and not be beta bux, or to use women for sex (and still not surrender resources via marriage) via PUA and alpha fux. Nothing about Red Pill is good for "liberated women" because it allows low SMV males to manipulate female instinct to get free sex, and educates other low SMV males not to allow a woman to use them for resources. Red Pill is the natural counter-force to feminism which provides the impetus for a civilization to reform (via revolution) or to be destroyed (by weakening it from within until it destroys itself or is destroyed by a stronger, less feministic civilization).

                And all this plays out subconsciously for most men and women.

                [–]peonpete -1 points0 points  (1 child)

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                I really like that you spent the time to write this out. I've had this discussion with a number of people as I have a huge interest in evolutionary biology.

                Can I (politely) disagree with some of your conclusions on tribal and civilisation motivations?

                Early Social structures likely arose from our evolution, not our evolution shaped by social structures we arbitrarily adopted.

                The early men that chose to band together could better fight off predators (and reproduce) and take down bigger prey (and reproduce). So we're the the results of a lineage of somewhat co-operative men. The natural tension between men for mating rights of course still exists, and the boasting of which caveman took the most risks to win the tribes food to attract female attention has easy analogues to be found today.

                The 'sisterhood' also finds its roots in the same period. When the men went off hunting (dawn to dusk) they couldnt leave a small number of men behind with the women (cuckoldry) so they would have left them in a relatively safe location (a cave, in tree canopies, a clearing etc).

                So there's basically this tribal safe zone where kids (way more than 2 per woman) are running around. The only way a woman can look after 4-5 kids at once with potential predators around is entering into a social pact with other women to effectively run zone defense - that if ANY child leaves the safe area, you will stop it and you trust that your sisters will do the same for yours). Having your offspring eaten makes it difficult to pass your genes on.

                You're then absolutely correct - the strength in numbers replaces the individuals overwhelming strength.

                The early marriage thing (not Marriage, Inc) definitely benefits the less physically strong man. Pre-civilisation, without marriage, most of the women go to Grug, the equivalent of the 6'4"-built-like-a-truck dude, who if he caught me trying to get it on with his harem, would kill me.

                What I am, however, is smart. Therefore, my forebears must have been smart(-er). At the same time civilisation rose, so did religion.

                Religion is a really interesting stop-gap in human development. Its both proto-science (We didnt really understand how the world worked, so invented divine intervention) and an embodiment of social contracts with divine policing (The 10 Commandments as God's law is a pretty good thing to come up with if your citizenry is used to raping and murdering each other).

                At the dawn of civilisation, the smart became the priesthood (literate, reflective etc). What better way to shift things in your favor than to convince Grug there's a higher power who wants him to be with only one woman (and therefore leaving his harem to the other men).

                That it also has the benefits of keeping Betas engaged and productive is a welcome side-effect.

                When I sit down and explain this to people, I generally get one of four responses:

                Red Pill Dudes: Yeah that's totally right Blue Pill Dudes: NAWALT RP Women: Thats really interesting. teasing shit test Want to fuck? BP Women: I didnt really understand that, but for some reason I want to fuck you.

                [–]1mr_throwz -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                I think we agree on the main point: Marriage is the institution which cements human social groups together, by conscripting male labor in exchange for sexual access. Feminism is destroying that, and along with it, civilization.

                [–]Zaorish9 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

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                Good summary of a bunch of similar posts on this topic that I've seen.

                This points out that civilization is built by worker males having an agreement with natural alpha males. (i.e. the social contract). Worker males will build, code, write, calculate. Alpha males will "lead", pay them some money and promise to probably leave them a wife--ie, no polygamy, and shaming of female promiscuity.

                One of the terms of the social contract is that wives will be provided via shaming of female ape behavior, hypergamy.

                Feminism is female's attempt to simultaneously engage in female ape behavior, hypergamy, while at the same time enjoying all the fruits that the workers males built for them.

                It is unsustainable however as the worker males are slowly realizing they are not getting their deal any more.

                [–]blueeyedbull 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                Hey Gekk, great post. I think you are on to something real there. Yet, unfortunately I believe Beta's have been around since the dawn of time and now, in our current alpha male bashing society have more opportunity to exercise their attempt to get punani by being the fool.

                [–]YrSerpentinePad -1 points0 points  (16 children)

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                I'm new to this sub, but TRPers belief that being friends with women and not wanting to have sex with every single one of them is some kind of fault genuinely boggles my mind

                [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

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                You've missed the point. RP just means getting what you want, because no one owes it to you. If you want sex, get sex from women who want to give it to you. If you want a relationship, keep her happy by being who you were meant to be and letting her be who she was meant to be. If guys just want to get laid there are other areas for this. RP is about manhood, pure and simple.

                [–]d3gu 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                I agree. I think it's more about dispelling this idea that one ideal woman holds the secret key to all your happiness. We really don't! We're just people trying to get along like everyone else!

                I think TRP came about when guys started getting sick of those types of women who lead guys on just enough to get stuff (attention, gifts, social standing, drinks, security) and then play with his affections and feelings. I knew a few girls at uni like that. One of them literally had a dude or 2 hovering (orbiting) around her. She's not a bad person, and probably laughed these guys off as 'friends'. But I could see in their eyes they wanted more. I just wanted to yell HOLY CRAP, GET A FUCKING GRIP ON YOURSELF MAN, THERE'S MORE WOMEN IN THE WORLD THAN HER, ONES WHO WILL GLADLY TOUCH YOUR WILLY.

                [–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 6 points7 points  (8 children)

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                It's not that one can't be friends with women. I have several myself. It's just that most men want more with their female friends than is readily apparent. If given the opportunity, most men would fuck at least one of their female friends. The lack of fucking is directly because she does not allow it.

                A lot of betas also try to "friend" their way into sexual attraction. Those guys are not looking for actual friendship.

                [–]d3gu -1 points0 points  (7 children)

                sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                A lot of betas also try to "friend" their way into sexual attraction. Those guys are not looking for actual friendship.

                Thank you, thank you. You've put what I've been trying to write out!

                I think a guy and girl (or any combination, really) can be friends as long as both have platonic intentions. It pisses me off when guys (or girls) whine about being friendzoned, when they were never planning on being friends anyway.

                A friend is a person who mutually cares and looks after someone, with no ulterior motive.

                Sometimes romantic relationships come from platonic ones. But it's got to be a mutual, organic thing.

                It's really obvious and offputting when a guy tries to befriend you, and the moment you mention a boyfriend or just that you're not interested, they deflate and get all sulky. I was chatting to one guy at an open-mic night I'd performed at - he asked if I had a boyfriend, I replied yes, and he said (not kidding) 'That was a waste of time then' and got up and walked off!

                [–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 0 points1 point  (3 children)

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                Well, look at it from the other side. A lot of guys buy into the BP fantasy that just being a kind, supplicating, emotionally supportive man is the proper way to court women. These guys are just doing what they've been told all their lives is the "proper" way to attract women. When said strategy fails miserably, they become upset and can't figure it out -- their only explanation is that the girl must be a bitch. Why else isn't his strategy working?

                This is exactly why TRP is necessary.

                [–]d3gu 1 point2 points  (2 children)

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                Oh definitely, if it's an ongoing long attempted 'courtship' and the woman recognises this and leads him on anyway then that's very unfair. I agree.

                I meant more in the case when you get into a conversation with a new person at a bar, party, work, bus, you get me. And you're having a lovely time with your 'new friend' and you think 'hey, get me I'm meeting new people and being sociable, this person is really cool'.

                Then you drop the bomb that you have a gf/bf (e.g. if they say 'So is it cool if I get your number' or 'Want to meet up for lunch some time' and you think, well I should let them know I'm not available for dates), and they huff 'Oh for gods sake, no it's ok, whatever' and storm off.

                Hurts, man. Bad for me because I was having a nice, sociable time meeting new people. Bad for them because in their head I am now a bitch who used up valuable potential-shagging time that they wasted on a non-shaggable.

                edit: Your description of the BP fantasy is indeed how I expect to be treated by a boyfriend. Except the supplicating bit. I hate doormats or people who treat me as better than them, or more 'worthy' or 'precious' or that shit. What I mean is that I also expect my (male and female) friends to be kind, supportive etc. But I can only have one boyfriend at a time, so what am I supposed to do? Tell every guy I meet that I can't be his girlfriend? How arrogant is that!

                [–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                Hurts, man. Bad for me because I was having a nice, sociable time meeting new people at a party. Bad for them because in their head I am now a bitch who used up valuable potential-shagging time that they wasted on a non-shaggable.

                Yeah, I see how that sucks. It's a natural consequence of male courting dynamics though. Guys are expected to approach women and face all the rejection. Some betas who aren't used to much sexual success can get burnt out and frustrated easily.

                It's not worth wasting time worrying about it though. Most dudes who come into your life just want to fuck you, just how it is. The ones that don't are potentially great friends, focus on those.

                [–]d3gu -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                I understand that. It doesn't make it any easier, especially when you are trying to be polite and give guys the benefit of the doubt. It's almost like some RPers expect unavailable women to stay in the house and only socialise with other, unavailable women :(

                It also really grates on your own confidence and esteem, like 'is this all people want from me', 'am I giving off a certain signal', 'fuck this, maybe I should just go home' and you end up really resenting certain situations like bars or parties when you have gone on your own to have a nice time.

                I guess I'm lucky to have a really nice, varied, wide group of friends. I encounter the dickheads occasionally, but I guess I'm more confident in myself now to laugh it off as 'their problem, not mine'. I guess it still annoys me that they feel so sure that I am obligated to swoon over their epic courtship techniques. I remember when I was last single, it was so hard to explain to guys that I just wasn't interested. No, it wasn't them it was just I. WASN'T. INTERESTED. At least I can now use the boyfriend 'excuse' :/

                The ones that don't are potentially great friends, focus on those.

                I do :) They're all lovely. And most of them have got girlfriends now, so it's even nicer as I love to meet new people and it's awesome to see them so happy. Going to the first wedding next month!

                [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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                [deleted]

                  [–]d3gu -1 points0 points  (1 child)

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                  What I meant is that it was an unpleasant experience that kinda put a downer on the night. It was only a small open mic where everyone sits together, so it was quite embarrassing and awkward, especially since other people had heard the exchange. My boyfriend wasn't there, if I recall he was out with his best mate somewhere. He's not into open mic stuff anyway.

                  And as I've said elsewhere, I was not intending on making an 'orbiter', just making casual conversation at a small gathering, with a fellow performer (he had played after me). Isn't that what you would have done in my place?

                  Also, in our local little open mic community, it's kind of unwritten rule that you speak to and are friendly with the other musicians. I'd done it a thousand times before. It's not like I'd approached him in a bar, I just happened to be sat near him and told him I'd liked his performance.

                  [–]luxury_banana 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                  It can work if you're not attracted to them and they don't try to impose on you by trying to get you to go way further for them by asking you to do all sorts of things than an actual friend would.

                  [–]Villaintine[🍰] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                  It's not that it's a fault at all, there are qualitative differences between having male friends and having female friends. In the dumbed-down and generalized version for most intents and purposes female friends are either useful for sex directly (plates, FWBs) or indirectly (wingman/company to give the appearance of preselection).

                  [–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

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                  who gives a shit. if it's not a rule or on the sidebar its just an opinion of some individuals. if your feelings are hurt you're free to press the giant fucking red x at the top right.

                  "my problem with this place is some people at this place hold an opinion i don't agree with"

                  Do you realize how retarded that sounds

                  [–]kinklianekoff -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

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                  Please read read the material presented in the sidebar before getting "boggled". This particular concept is explained by searching rationalmale.com with the term "beta game".

                  [–]ryeprotagonist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  lifting the BetaBux veil and allowing those men to go forth finally knowing the rules to the game that they never knew they'd been playing...

                  ...sounds like the natural extension of equality that femtards always bang on about, doesn't it?

                  let them see how they like their new freedoms and privileges without the safety net of the Beta schlub waiting to catch their used up ass when they fall after their inevitable crash into The Wall.

                  [–]TheCastle 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  It was a good read but something I find disturbing is the act of taking a good point then interjecting "All girls make you hold their purse while fucking a muscular dark triad alpha in the club bathroom while not even considering you for sex while you pay for everything."

                  I am thinking about that situation logically and I have to say if you have a girlfriend with the spunk to pull some shit off like that with zero guilt shes not only likely to fuck you too but anyone else she decides to at the moment. I kind of admire someone who is like that male or female. LOL the situation described here is so over the top its making fun of itself.

                  I am paraphrasing yes. I do not disagree with the overall sentiment either. However, this assumption that everyone is the same is unhealthy. Dial it back a tad on some of the stuff and your good. If you are in the friend zone you aren't entitled to sex anyway so stop acting like your a victim when she makes you hold her purse. Part of being a man is taking ownership of your actions too you know. You cannot end up in a situation like this without it at least mostly being your fault. Your tendency to act like a victim and general outlook of the situation is a red flag that you need to sit back take a hard drink and stop being so god damn dramatic.

                  [–]lagspike 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  they hate it cause people here have successfully called their bluff.

                  they dont want people to catch on that they are full of shit, or how they really think. they are too emotionally unstable to feel bad about how they manipulate people, but don't want to be put on the spot when someone tells the truth.

                  [–]greycloud24 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  nope one of my roommates hates trp stuff. but than again he demonstrates the vast majority of female behavior presented by this community. so it could be that many guys are actually becoming women at least in their minds. the indoctrination of blue pill feminism is finally taking root in the young men of today.

                  [–]ProductivityMonster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  As someone who deals with very smart people day in day out (men and women at a top university masters program), I can say that these women are consciously aware (they have said to me when I baited them) of the advantages they have and games they play. They just don't care. And they still rant about feminism in the workplace wasting valuable class time. These bitches are positively sociopathic. But even less smart women are still aware of what they are doing, perhaps not to the same degree. This sub likes to rant about how illogical/emotional/irrational women are, but I disagree. I think they're more uncaring/manipulative than illogical in the places I live.

                  [–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

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                  Stay strong

                  [–]blushing_goddess -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                  To be fair, the red pill just isn't very female friendly. You have to have a thick shell and serious self-awareness to be able to deal with some of the things that are said here. Men stuck in-between the anger and hopelessness stages of grief and extremely bitter and loud towards women. The women on this subreddit are a little tougher. We can deal with not hearing flowery words directed at us all the time. We don't think we deserve them just for having a vagina.

                  Additionally, "women are like children" is insulting when you take it at face value, and when you hear that it's hard to have any desire to see what it actually means...because you might have to come to the conclusion that women are like children. "Marital rape should be okay and isn't rape" is scary to hear as a woman (especially when "rape culture" frenzy is telling us that we are in danger of being raped by anyone at any point) and sometimes the justifications for those comments are not well thought-out or well-reasoned. I don't agree with that particular redpill point at all.

                  Women grow up hearing that we are equally capable. We can do anything. We are told that we don't have to be thin or pretty to be worth as much. We can speak our minds and still be liked. And TRP says the opposite. Of course that pisses the average woman off. It means that we have to honestly put work into our appearance if we want to be desirable, be pleasant to talk to, think about other people's opinions and admit that we are sometimes wrong.

                  [–]g4merguy -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                  I think you are probably right because generally people only get upset about stuff that hits a little too close the home

                  [–]jcslzr -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

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                  yep is a social conspiracy and the media helps in this, since a married man is easier to keep as slave and more docile, and that is what the guys at the top want.

                  people treat me equally for saying I am redpill as for saying i am a conspiracy theorist, but if you only look at facts both are true.

                  [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                  [deleted]

                    [–]jcslzr -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                    suck it

                    [–]Old-bag-o-bones -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

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                    First of all, the reason which TRP is hated in general is just because of pure groupthink.

                    So you're saying we shouldn't listen to everything people say...? So when you say that women are using us we shouldn't listen to you...? So I should think for myself instead of listening to what you just said...?

                    [–]slcjosh -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                    Its as simple as this: People dont like the truth.

                    Thats it. People do not like the truth. They dont like blunt honesty and they dont like the fact that their ideal is an unrealistic one.

                    That is why so many people are opposed to what goes on in this sub. That and a lack of understanding.

                    [–]1Mikesapien -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                    We're hated for a whole host of reasons, but the first and foremost is that we seek truth and have the courage to bring others to do the same. Society detests that; just look at what happened to Socrates.

                    [–]NorrisYeager -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                    My take on this is that they probably don't realize they are doing this. For them it is instinctual, automatic and for the bit they are conscious, the hamster takes care of it. It's a bit like how celebrities or monarchy just expect the honors and being naturally superior, just because.

                    Yes, it pisses us off, but it's like being pissed off at a skunk for stinking, or a raccoon for going through your trash bags looking for food.

                    The old bitches probably has it figured out though. The ones purposefully holding out sex on their husbands until they get a trinket. Worse than whores. I think when they hit the wall, they start putting the pieces together and figure it out, just like men do around that age.

                    [–]Kvantemekanik -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

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                    It really shows how many people here are americans ... Listen up: not everything is a big conspiracy.

                    [–]d3gu -4 points-3 points  (10 children)

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                    One of the most significant is that women want to get fucked by weightlifting frat bros

                    I've never been attracted to over-muscly men, and you don't get 'frat bros' in England. I prefer lean (but not skinny) men who I can feel comfortable and respected around, and who will keep our sexual life fairly private (as in, not go into TMI details with everyone he knows). Looks are definitely important to me, but not looks alone.

                    I once went on a few dates with a guy who was incredibly good-looking/gym-going-type, but he was SO DULL - I want the person to be funny and good company, too!

                    Same with money. I've always earned my keep. Of course I like the occasional gift, but I have far too much self-worth to be a 'kept woman'. I'm an engineer who likes to get her hands dirty fixing up my van; I don't want to be a bimbo.

                    [–]kinklianekoff 1 point2 points  (8 children)

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                    weightlifting frat bros

                    it's a simplification of what every regular here understands as alpha.

                    [–]d3gu 0 points1 point  (7 children)

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                    I like an alpha/confident personality, as I consider myself the same. I can't be dealing with wishywashy game-playing bullshit.

                    What I can't stand is the quote alpha unquote mentality. You don't need to be a spitting, swearing, weight-lifting, sexist pig to be alpha. That's just your average common 'roid-rage moron. I've met a few. Male and female. REAL alphas wouldn't be caught dead referring to themselves as alphas. It's like being cool. If you try too hard, it's just embarrassing. Like a little girl stuffing her bras with tissues, or a little boy wearing his daddy's jacket; you can tell who's real and who's not.

                    I often joke to my boyfriend that he's a caveman because he's got quite an aggressive/assertive personality. As in, if someone upset me he would be tempted to punch them. I was stalked by a fan last year (I do standup comedy in my free time, long story) and had to call the police. Bf was all, 'in the old days it would be me and your brother and his friends cornering him in the pub and telling him to back off'. I guess the fact he eats lots of raw steaks and is a bit uncouth just adds to that.

                    [–]kinklianekoff 4 points5 points  (1 child)

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                    I see. Here is some recommended reading on this: http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/20/alpha/

                    [–]d3gu -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                    Cheers! I'm at work atm, so I had a quick skim, but I'll have a proper read when I'm home.

                    [–]enticingasthatmaybe -3 points-2 points  (4 children)

                    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                    Male and female. REAL alphas wouldn't be caught dead referring to themselves as alphas.

                    No offense to you personally, but if you are identifying yourself as a woman - you're opinion on what is or isn't 'alpha male' is completely irrelevant.

                    [–]d3gu -1 points0 points  (3 children)

                    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                    I meant I've met male and female versions of the weight lifting 'frat' meathead stereotype.

                    What I also was trying to say is that I can hardly imagine the 'classic' alphas like Bond, Arnie, even Johnny Bravo refer to themselves as such.

                    I'm not criticising anyone, or making anyone try to agree with me. I guess I'm sick of people getting caught up with labels. Guys should stop worrying about how 'alpha' they are, and just goddamn go out and BE. Surely a true alpha doesn't get worried about stuff like this.

                    I do think you get alpha females, but they're very different to men. I'm imagining a cougar maneater type.

                    [–]enticingasthatmaybe -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

                    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                    I do agree that the quintessential "alpha" doesn't give the two halves of one fuck about if he's being perceived as alpha, but we aren't trying to reach that guy. We're trying to reach the guys who've been lied to by your gender their whole lives. They need something to work towards. There has to be a destination or one cannot expect progress.

                    I do think you get alpha females, but they're very different to men. I'm imagining a cougar maneater type.

                    There are no such things as alpha females. Only cunts who foolishly believe they can be a better man than men.

                    [–]d3gu -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                    I understand, and I almost put that I know a lot of subscribers are here for the very reason you said: to learn better habits. I don't blame you guys. I wish this resource had existed when I was younger. I think the terms like 'orbiter' is fantastic, and quite revelationary (if that's a word).

                    [–]a_tes_soulhaits -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                    There clearly are Alpha females if you paid more attention you'd recognise them and it would make you're life so much easier. They are known as matriarchs and once you find them within any group it will make assimilating and then taking dominance so much easier. Men and women have different roles but there is still a clear hierarchy in both groups.

                    [–]2Occams_Shiv -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                    You most certainly do get 'frat bros' in England. More so than in the US even. They're just called yobs or lads. The rich ones play rugby and the poor ones organinize into 'firms' and have street brawls for fun in 'support' of their favorite 'football' team.

                    [–]KilledBatman -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

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                    So in a qualitative form: 20% fux / 80% bux. I understand now.

                    [–]BluepillProfessor -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

                    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                    Much of this thread has hit the nail on the proverbial head and explained my situation as well.

                    My own wife (married for 20+ years) needed her alpha fux back, not her beta bux (she make more than enough) so she is practically thrilled with TRP, though she would never admit it.

                    OTOH, Most women want them beta bux and so they HATE TRP. Makes sense.

                    I don't think this is giving them to much credit. This is akin to the German citizens being silent during the Holocaust. The legal term is: "Willful blindness" and you are liable for the harm that results.

                    "What? Why we had no idea all that snow raining down was really human remains. Wow, how did that happen?"

                    "Men learn how to attract women? Why we had no idea there was actually a way to do that. Doesn't it just happen that we pick the guys we want to fuck? Wow, how did that happen?

                    Fuck those bitches, twice.

                    [–]NorrisYeager -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

                    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                    My take on this is that they probably don't realize they are doing this. For them it is instinctual, automatic and for the bit they are conscious, the hamster takes care of it. It's a bit like how celebrities or monarchy just expect the honors and being naturally superior, just because.

                    Yes, it pisses us off, but it's like being pissed off at a skunk for stinking, or a raccoon for going through your trash bags looking for food.

                    The old bitches probably has it figured out though. The ones purposefully holding out sex on their husbands until they get a trinket. Worse than whores. I think when they hit the wall, they start putting the pieces together and figure it out, just like men do around that age.

                    [–]skinisblackmetallic -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

                    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

                    Secret Society! Was it Juggler that first coined the term?