all 170 comments

[–][deleted]  (19 children)

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    [–]All_night 65 points66 points  (0 children)

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    Can't upvote this enough. It took 3 years in my career to understand that people value what they have to pay for. So much Truth.

    [–]xtr3m 30 points31 points  (15 children)

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    It's much harder to throw away something that you paid for, compared to something that was given to you for free.

    Make her a stakeholder by investing into the relationship so that it becomes harder to scrap the whole thing ("But I already invested so much time into us, maybe I'll give it another chance").

    Simply being cute and only having to spread the legs does not make her a stakeholder.

    [–]JihadDerp 10 points11 points  (14 children)

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    This makes a lot of sense to me. But what would count as an investment on the girl's side?

    [–]get_it_together1 39 points40 points  (12 children)

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    Become high value, then you'll find out. They'll buy you gifts, cook for you, clean for you, and try to make your life better.

    [–]frequentlywrong 24 points25 points  (11 children)

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    It's important to never stop anyone who offers to do or buy something for you. Even if you don't really care about the thing that is being offered.

    Everything someone does for you, is an increased investment on their part and they will like you more. This is important for romantic or business relationships.

    [–]HitlersCow 8 points9 points  (7 children)

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    Interesting. I've given this some thought in the past and am on the fence with this kind of thing.

    Doesn't that also make you indebted to that person? I do random favors and whatnot for this very reason. I'll scratch your back you scratch mine kind of thing.

    Care to extrapolate a little on this for me?

    [–]frequentlywrong 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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    I came across it a bunch of times, but can't find any references at the moment. Sorry. I know the effect is confirmed by real life experiments and it is not conscious.

    Doesn't that also make you indebted to that person?

    Yes the reverse effect is there, but only superficially. Eventually the mind will convince itself the other person did this because you deserve it. The mind reaches equilibrium that way. Think about a company owner who gets rich, but shares none of his wealth with employees. They are probably a big part of why he became rich, but owners rarely share their wealth with people who get them there.

    You can think of it this way. You got something for nothing. People who get something for nothing do not value that thing.

    The other person put effort into something. He values that thing, because he put effort into it and he values his effort. His mind reaches equilibrium by raising the worth of where that effort went. If he put effort there, it must be worth something.

    I do random favors and whatnot for this very reason. I'll scratch your back you scratch mine kind of thing.

    I don't think this is good strategy I'm afraid. This actually turns you into the beta between the two. He will not feel any better towards you, but you will feel better towards him.

    [–]Dream4eva 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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    It really depends on the person, but often you will know whether to expect a return on your investment.

    [–][deleted]  (4 children)

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      [–]frequentlywrong 0 points1 point  (3 children)

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      You make it sound like it's a conscious decision. It's really not. Which is why people might be confused about it. It is researched and confirmed phenomena.

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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        [–]frequentlywrong 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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        I would say women mostly rely on their feelings so it's very subconscious for them. Men less so since the male mind is less distracted by feelings but it's still very subconscious for the average man. TRP/PUA types are the most conscious because we analyze and adapt our behavior.

        [–]CheekyChipmunk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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        This is actually true. Even little things like getting you a pack of gum, or handing you a plate. I never thought about it as an investment but thats the perfect definition for it.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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          [–]1veggie_girl 14 points15 points  (0 children)

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          Make her pay for your school and gym membership, for example. There are lots of ways she can invest in you which is in effect investing in the relationship. Also, see the Benjamin Franklin effect.

          [–]cooledcannon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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          I try my hardest to value things based on their objective value, rather than how hard I worked for them. I dont want people maniplulating me with those shenanigans, while I dont want to be ungrateful to those giving me free stuff.

          [–]foutight 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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          I like to post random quotes from trp discussions on facebook. I shared this one about valueing only things we pay for. Its very true and when applied to relationships/girls this concept can explain A LOT!

          [–]darkstout 150 points151 points  (65 children)

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          Women are ruthless. They will say "I love you" to your face while cheating behind your back. They will talk shit and complain about you to all their friends. They won't appreciate any of your sacrifices because it's expected of you. They only look out for themselves.

          I used to daydream of a loving wife where we shared our dreams and hopes and fears. But all these ex-girlfriends, they would tear me apart, disgusted by any sign of weakness or supplication. So I close up, become stoic, laugh off shit tests, treat them like children, fuck them rough instead of "making love"... and this pleases them. And I feel alone.

          [–]1bicepsblastingstud 93 points94 points  (26 children)

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          I feel alone.

          In my opinion, this is the single hardest bit of TRP for most men to swallow. The "women like alphas" bit? That's easy to believe; all of us have seen that play out every day since we first started noticing that women look kinda nice.

          But the realization that your girl will never, ever love you like you love her? That one's a bit tougher.

          It's solipsism on our part. We love wholeheartedly and devotedly -- just look at the tomes of love poems, the thousands of love songs written by men consumed by passion. Naturally, we assume that women do the same.

          Why doesn't she love me like I love her?

          Understanding our solipsism, accepting that a woman cannot love you like you love her... man, that can hurt.

          It just seems so wrong to think that no woman but your mother will love you unconditionally.

          [–]the_real_chronos 46 points47 points  (2 children)

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          Man, I wish I was gay after reading that : (

          [–]OsoFeo 20 points21 points  (1 child)

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          I'm not so sure that's a way out. I can't say for sure because I've never fallen in love with a woman and expected something like love in return, so I don't have a basis for comparison. But the idealistic "love" I thought was possible in my youth does not match the "love" I currently have. I respect my partner, enjoy his company, have a rapport with him, share core values, and we have decent sex. We're much better off with each other than alone. Maybe it's kind of like a brother with benefits.

          But it's not the stuff of poetry. I'm ok with that, I've had enough of destructive illusions.

          [–]HitlersCow 9 points10 points  (0 children)

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          Interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing.

          [–]theozoph 9 points10 points  (1 child)

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          "Dans un couple, il y en a toujours un qui souffre et un qui s'ennuie." — Honoré de Balzac

          Translated : "In a couple, there's always one who suffers and one who's bored."

          Whether the smitten girl and the aloof alpha, or the smitten beta and the aloof girl, great men have always acknowledged that love is an inherently unbalanced situation.

          The Red Pill has always been a bitter one.

          [–]Kekeramitu 21 points22 points  (5 children)

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          It's the tightrope feeling I dislike. Women can easily become completely disinterested. For guys all we really need is a reasonably pleasant girl with a fit body - the majority of guys won't be able to get much better than that, so would never leave. Women don't realise how easy it is to be a complete loner as a man.

          [–]HitlersCow 5 points6 points  (1 child)

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          the majority of guys won't be able to get much better than that

          Tbh I'd be pretty happy with "a reasonably pleasant girl with a fit body." What more could you ask for these days?

          [–]The_Fart_Of_God 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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          an activity partner

          [–]Dream4eva 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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          For me I'm battling pure disinterest. I keep weighing up the cost of my time and it just doesn't seem worth it mostly.

          [–]enticingasthatmaybe 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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          It's the tightrope feeling I dislike.

          If you're feeling like you're on a tight rope, you aren't there yet. I don't like spewing out cliches, but it is much easier once you've internalized the core principals and can trust your own dominance.

          Dominance and a commanding presence defeats the need to 'walk the tightrope' because your default personality is attractive. You can be romantic when you have the full attention your woman's attractive gaze.

          [–]Kekeramitu 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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          You're right I'm not there yet. Shit, I was a virgin less than six months ago. Found TRP about 8 months ago. I don't think it's a coincidence.

          [–]CommanderAmerica 9 points10 points  (0 children)

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          damn

          [–]Calbomb98 15 points16 points  (3 children)

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          Think for example about country songs. Female singers are more often than not singing about failed relationships or who they want to be with not who they are already seeing. Whereas men are always saying how much they love the girl they are with, not to say that is how all songs are but for the most part yeah

          [–]1bicepsblastingstud 27 points28 points  (2 children)

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          Female country breakup song: "I destroyed his truck, haha"

          Male country breakup song: "I've been drunk for two weeks and I still can't stop thinking about her."

          [–]Calbomb98 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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          By her do you mean the truck or the woman?

          [–]Cask_Strength_Islay 12 points13 points  (8 children)

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          It just seems so wrong to think that no woman but your mother will love you unconditionally.

          Nobody loves unconditionally, not even your own mother or father

          [–]enticingasthatmaybe 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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          The mother bird ALWAYS eats first. Never forget that.

          [–]HitlersCow 1 point2 points  (2 children)

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          This little Red Pill gem is often overlooked.

          Yes, even your mother is capable of selling you out or fucking you over.

          In the words of biggie "Yo moms'll set that ass up properly cashed up. Hoodied and masked up. For that fast buck - she be lying in the bushes to light that ass up."

          [–]t21spectre 5 points6 points  (1 child)

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          Yes, even your mother is capable of selling you out or fucking you over.

          Absolutely, when I was in the Army I knew a guy who kept his legal address his mothers house. He set up accounts with two different banks, one for his spending money and the other to save, roughly a 20/80 split. When he was overseas for over a year he spent his 20% self allotment on tobacco, drinks, snacks, movies, etc. and never paid much attention to the other 80% thinking it was safe in his other account. Well, his old debit card expired so the bank sent a new one to his mother's house, then the pin a week later. Mom got both and went on a spending spree, ~30k in a few months.

          He did end up getting his money reimbursed from the bank on grounds of his mothers fraud.

          On that note I knew a guy who had his military pay sent to a joint account while he was overseas, so his GIRLFRIEND could take care of his bills, storage, insurance, etc. He came home to negative $200 in his account, she spent his almost $40k. It was a joint account so he had no legal recourse. She was no where to be found when he got home either, took the money and ran.

          I have several more stories, I think I'll create a post.

          [–]redpillredpill 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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          I think I'll create a post

          Please do.

          [–]nillotampoco 1 point2 points  (2 children)

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          Jesus loves you.

          [–]mr_kat 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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          Jesus is dead.

          [–]1johnnight 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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          Jesus is an emotional illusion, just like porn.

          [–]JihadDerp 30 points31 points  (28 children)

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          Women are ruthless. They only look out for themselves.

          This doesn't just apply to their relationships with men. If you've ever heard the drama between a group of girlfriends, "catty" doesn't begin to describe the spite, vitriol, and vengeance they hurl at each other. It's legitimately scary. A girl friend of mine just had a falling out with a girl who just the other week was one of her best friends. The shit she talks now, all the pent up resentment she held during that "friendship." Holy shit.

          [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (4 children)

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          Do you think that's because men would usually go physical but since girls don't tend to do that it comes out another way?

          [–]5 Endorsed Contributorgekkozorz 14 points15 points  (3 children)

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          You are absolutely right.

          If two men have a problem, their natural tendency to resolve it is to assert aggression. Maybe it goes so big they trade fisticuffs, maybe they get in a shouting match, maybe they just argue intensely. But for the most part, a man's instinct is to resolve conflicts by going the direct route.

          Women, on the other hand, can't take that risk. They're the smaller, weaker, and less spatially aware sex, so their cave lady ancestors learned very quickly that the best way to win a conflict is not to break out the clubs and start trading blows, it's to use their social skills to manipulate outcomes in their favor.

          Thus the fact that women use manipulation and lies where men would use aggression.

          [–]down_with_whomever 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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          If two men have a problem, their natural tendency to resolve it is to assert aggression. Maybe it goes so big they trade fisticuffs, maybe they get in a shouting match, maybe they just argue intensely.

          I've never solved a dispute with another guy in this way ever.

          [–]5 Endorsed Contributorgekkozorz 11 points12 points  (1 child)

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          You've never been in an argument?

          [–]down_with_whomever 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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          I was focusing more on the second half. But no - generally I find once the communication gets to the level of active aggression, it no longer becomes an "argument" to resolve differences, but just expressions of negative emotions. It isn't productive. Discussion =/= argument. "fuck you" doesn't resolve differences.

          The disputes I've had with men I wouldn't call aggression - when it gets to aggression, it's already done.

          [–]FaithfulJinn 11 points12 points  (0 children)

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          Pretty much. They are ruthless creatures. Had a female friend hang out with me a few days ago. She came over to eat at my place and then we were going to meet a larger group of friends at the club. We're in my room and cuddling and flirting togetber when I go in for a kiss. She shies away and tells me she is in love with someone and they are considering a relationship. In my head I could only laugh cuz I could tell by her body language we were gonna fuck later.

          Fast forward to after the club and we're getting buckwild in my room and shes telling me how big my dick is and taking me inside her. She then took a pic of my dick while she sucked it and was basically being a slut.

          These hoes aint loyal.

          [–]6353juantabo 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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          I've been devouring RP content lately, but this one hurts. Fuck.

          [–]Dragontitz 8 points9 points  (0 children)

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          fuck, get some good guy friends.

          my bros are way more important than a broad

          [–]johngalt1234 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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          And I feel alone.

          Count on men not women for loyalty and true friendship: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAQa5qrEsJA

          As the old saying goes: "Brother's are limbs, wives are shirts, A worn out shirt can be sewn up but how can a severed limb be replanted?"

          [–]Dat_Black_Guy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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          B R U H...i cant upvote this enough. WHAT IS THE SOLUTION!

          [–]TehFuggernaut -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

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          Yes and no. There are girls out there who value what you do for them long term. It's tough knowing when you have one until shit hits the fan - and then it could be too late.

          [–]oopssorrydaddy -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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          This is 100% applicable to both sexes.

          [–]∞ Red Pill VisionaryRollo-Tomassi 40 points41 points  (2 children)

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          The True Romantics

          http://therationalmale.com/2011/08/26/the-true-romantics/

          For all a man’s very imaginative, creative, endeavors to manufacture a romance that will endear a woman to him, his ‘trying’ to do so is what disqualifies his intent. For every carefully preplanned ‘date night’ after marriage, there’s a college girl swooning to bang her boyfriend living in a shithole, sheets over the windows, furniture from the dumpster, pounding shitty beer and sleeping on a soiled mattress on the floor. Romance isn’t created, romance just happens, and it’s a tough, but valuable, lesson when men come to realize that a happenstance bag of skittles, or a ring made from a gum wrapper at the right time meant more to a woman than every expensively contrived ‘romantic getaway’ he’d ever thought would satisfy her need for lofty romance.

          An important part of the red pill is learning that the most memorable acts of love a man can commit with a woman are acts of (seeming or genuine) spontaneity and never apparently and overtly planned (and yes, that applies to sex as well). This is a source of real frustration for a man since his blue pill conditioning expects the opposite from him, and his romantic nature – the nature that wants her to love him as he loves her – conspires with his problem solving nature, thus prompting him to ever greater romantic planning for what he hopes will be an appreciated, reciprocated love.

          http://therationalmale.com/2014/05/06/intersexual-hierarchies-part-i/

          http://badgerhut.wordpress.com/2014/05/05/harsh-words-for-tryers/

          [–]17 Endorsed ContributorArchwinger[S] 39 points40 points  (1 child)

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          An important part of the red pill is learning that the most memorable acts of love a man can commit with a woman are acts of (seeming or genuine) spontaneity and never apparently and overtly planned (and yes, that applies to sex as well).

          That's uncomfortably true. When I come home and toss my wife a candy bar, and she says, "What's this for?", if I reply, "I was buying some beer at 7-11 for the office and figured I'd pick you up something sweet for after dinner," that's somehow worth 1000 more points than, "You've been working really hard handling [our daughter] this week, so I decided this morning I'd get you something nice on the way home."

          In situation #1, she says, "You're sweet. Thanks for thinking of me!" In situation #2, she says, "So you're home 15 minutes late, forcing me to deal with our kid even longer than I had to, because you wasted time stopping to buy me a fucking candy bar I won't even eat? Why did you even bother?"

          [–]INomYou 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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          Would love to see a post expanding on this very thing, especially breaking down the male vs female perspective of the act. It would be hugely insightful. So often we men do or say things that to us are appropriate and even kind, but from the woman's perspective are the exact opposite. Getting a better idea of this alternate level perception that women see is key to understanding them.

          [–]abitlesscryptic 15 points16 points  (9 children)

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          reading this subreddit can be so enlightening sometimes but lately, for the most part it really drags everything down and depresses me. I used to have friends and experiences and a relationship where I actually felt 'connected' to other people, but now that seldom happens, and am I supposed to just understand that's the reality of growing up, that's the loss of innocence? That we have subreddits like this because in order to succeed we need to remind ourselves what to believe? That other people are only there to consistently show you, we're all shit, and sooner or later we will all only occupy our most basic natures? It's like the summation cardinal rule I get from trp time and time again is that ALL people no matter what airs they put on, are selfish liars and will use then lose you as soon as you let them.

          [–]17 Endorsed ContributorArchwinger[S] 40 points41 points  (8 children)

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          Have you ever read Death of a Salesman? Classic play, old, not the best writing, but it's about this guy Willie, who was one of the best salesmen in his company. Friends with the boss, was even there when the boss' son was born. Rumor has it Willie even named the kid.

          Fast forward a couple decades. Willie's old, the boss is dead, the son took over the company. Willie's not making his numbers any more, and the son takes him off salary and puts him back on commission. Willie doesn't get it. He used to be respected. He used to be awesome. He even named the son. But that's all in the past. You can't sell that. And he's a salesman. He ends up killing himself hoping his family will get the life insurance money.

          Nobody likes you just for existing. Nobody likes you for you. And nobody likes you for what you did yesterday. You are the sum of exactly how much use you can be to someone else. Your wife, your boss, your friends. If you're a valuable, skilled, intelligent, interesting, successful, fit, socially apt, high-status man, then you're useful to everybody. Just being your friend can help boost others.

          That's why The Red Pill is all about focusing on you. Get physically fit, get professionally successful, get confident and socially apt, develop useful skills and interesting hobbies. Become a badass. Every woman will want to fuck you and every man will either hate you, want to be you, or want to have a beer with you. The path to success and happiness is to be valuable.

          [–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad 17 points18 points  (2 children)

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          Nobody likes you just for existing. Nobody likes you for you. And nobody likes you for what you did yesterday. You are the sum of exactly how much use you can be to someone else. Your wife, your boss, your friends. If you're a valuable, skilled, intelligent, interesting, successful, fit, socially apt, high-status man, then you're useful to everybody. Just being your friend can help boost others.

          You are on a great fucking roll my friend... ♂

          [–]Upvote Me!trpbot[M] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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          Confirmed: 1 point awarded to /u/Archwinger by RedPillDad. [History]

          [This is an Automated Message]

          [–]Dream4eva 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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          [–]INomYou 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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          I dont disagree with the value of these pursuits but these are all external validations. A lot of guys struggle to find meaning/purpose that satisfies their internal questions about why we are here and what we are meant to do. Hell, even the word "do" prejudices an external focus. Deeds, empires, records all fall away, time eventually erases even the names of the mightiest emperors and kings.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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          outstanding

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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          [deleted]

            [–]Zexy_Contender 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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            Great post and comment. As depressingly true everything you said is, there is one person who will, for most people, love you unconditionally and that person is mom. Everyone else in the world is there to see what they can get from you, to judge and constantly compare you against someone else.

            [–]Verlier 15 points16 points  (11 children)

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            There is the explanation as to why I'm feeling so damn empty, maybe even depressed.

            I have learned a lot reading TRP and Seddit, this year I had many girls but also I noticed most of the things discussed in TRP and I feel as if I just discovered Santa never existed.

            Is there anything of value besides getting a good looking woman pregnant and making money? just a rhetoric question.

            Nice post

            [–]1veggie_girl 21 points22 points  (7 children)

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            Yes. Building a legacy. Whether it be a pyramid, a legend, a book, or advancing the human race through scientific engineering, all are worthwhile. You are a man, and you should pride yourself on your ability to create or innovate, and your natural ingenuity that seeks to rise above the heavens and know the secrets of the universe.

            If that doesn't interest you, drugs, sex and rock n roll sate most.

            [–]Verlier 2 points3 points  (6 children)

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            That's the thing I want, greatness and to free myself creatively. But I'm still filling the void with the drugs, the sex and the rocks.

            [–]1bicepsblastingstud 10 points11 points  (4 children)

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            Every man has a choice: to build the world or to enjoy it.

            Neither is better than the other, but they are very different, and it's best to figure out which calls to you as quickly as possible.

            [–]SadFace959 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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            Some men just want to watch the world burn. One could file that under enjoyment, though.

            [–]drimadethistocomment 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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            I would be the happiest man on earth if it just caught fire

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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            [deleted]

              [–]1bicepsblastingstud 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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              I arrived at the conclusion relatively independently, but just the other day I saw an article on return of kings titled "what the fuck are we doing" (or something like that) which dealt with the same concept.

              It's an issue I myself struggled with, so I'll give you my thought process in the hope that it will help you make your decision.

              For me, this all started with the realization that yes, I really am going to die and there won't be anything left afterwards. These years are all I have before my consciousness comes to an end; even if I leave behind a family and friends, I will exit this world alone and in all likelihood even my legacy will be forgotten in a generation or two.

              What, then, is the point of all of this? The vast majority of people just.... exist; they spend most of their waking life at an job they don't hate (but don't love either) and then die, having lived a boring, useless life, not realizing the truth of their own mortality until it was far too late.

              For those of us who recognize and embrace the fact that we get only one life, this prospect is horrifying. It actually kind of scares me to think of all the people who laid in their deathbed with regrets.

              If we only have one life to live, the most important question you will ever answer is "how am I going to spend it?"

              As I mentioned in my first post, I feel there are two options. You can build the world -- i.e. spend your short time making the lives of others a little better -- or you can maximize your enjoyment, making sure that the short life you have is, above all, worthwhile to you. I don't feel that one choice is morally superior; my "serve the human race" philosophies are heavily influenced by Heinlein and the book "starship troopers", but what I think he missed is the morality of the man on the mission to just find happiness. For some, that means building a stable nuclear family and dying surrounded by grandchildren. For others, it's living a dark triad life, and fading out in a gutter, dead of a heart attack after a drug-fueled orgy. Either way, happiness is the goal.

              So yeah. I, personally, chose to build the world. I have fun, of course, but what's most important to me is to try and make the world a better and safer place so that other people have the freedom and opportunity to pursue option 2.

              And there's nothing wrong with either of our choices... as long as we recognize that we don't have much longer on the planet, and do our best with what we have.

              [–]1veggie_girl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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              The arts were created by men as well.

              [–]Epicureanist 1 point2 points  (2 children)

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              Is there anything of value besides getting a good looking woman pregnant and making money? just a rhetoric question.

              Pursuit and mastery of a passion? Finding good friends to love and hang out with?

              At times I feel like there's really not much worth doing. I then look around at all the things i'm interested in, realize that no there's a lot in this world. I finally ask myself "what's the end result of each of these pursuits?" and i'm back to where I was.

              [–]INomYou 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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              I have been in a similar cycle. No answers to share but if you have the same experience, you might need to reconsider your user name.

              [–]Epicureanist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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              In the two years I made this account, I've changed in a lot of ways. Although when it comes to philosophy the problem I face is one of memory; i'll often forget, remember, and forget philosophies that I find valuable.

              [–][deleted]  (7 children)

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              [deleted]

                [–]Evolved_Red 22 points23 points  (0 children)

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                ||I found TRP after I got my heart ripped out of my chest by my best friend. What I couldn't understand was her zero remorse. It made no sense.

                I've posted this here before: there is nothing colder on this Earth than a woman who is unattracted. They will lie, trickle truth, say anything but the entire truth so they'll never be the 'bad guy.'

                [–]SilverWolfeBlade 9 points10 points  (0 children)

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                Brother... i feel you. I went through the same thing

                [–]6353juantabo 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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                What I couldn't understand was her zero remorse. It made no sense. I knew there had to be some knowledge I was missing, it didn't fucking made any sense to me.

                But the unplug was fucking painful, I won't lie.

                Right there with you, man.

                [–]Mintaka7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                You're not alone, bro.

                [–]Dat_Black_Guy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                We have to embrace that pain initially an remember it lest we fall back into our old ways

                [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                Ex of 5 years told me she 'didn't love me the same way anymore'. Was in the same boat as you man, had no idea why.

                Almost 3 months later i know exactly why.

                [–]CSMastermind 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                women naturally understand

                That's because the red pill helps you understand women. Women already understand themselves. They don't understand men and for the most part don't try to.

                [–]theinfamous1124 32 points33 points  (1 child)

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                Such is life for those still plugged in.

                Solution? Dread game. Exit plans for those who are not married. Making yourself the commodity and not her. Reserving gifts for special occasions and/or as rewards. Women simply cannot respect those who worship them.

                [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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                Id recommend an exit planned for the married too and go through with it. What would you do to better yourself if you were single? Might as well do it now and everyone benefits.

                [–]Dai_Einon 16 points17 points  (0 children)

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                TL;DR: the greater writer is the author, not the reader.

                [–]thegreatmcmeek 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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                "Men are romantics pretending to be realists, and women are realists pretending to be romantics"

                [–]insanitygrows 16 points17 points  (3 children)

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                some reasonable points, but I have to call complete bullshit when you say "But it’s never “just sex” for a man" ... it's definitely been "just sex" to me many times and I'm betting similarly for the vast majority of other men.

                [–]paracog 18 points19 points  (1 child)

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                If a woman has decided that men only want sex from her, it's usually because that's the only thing she offers that they actually have any use for.

                [–]1veggie_girl 13 points14 points  (0 children)

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                You're describing 99% of women's studies majors.

                [–]17 Endorsed ContributorArchwinger[S] 47 points48 points  (0 children)

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                A fair point.

                I may be splitting hairs, but when something is "just sex" to a man, that's still worlds different from when a woman, such as the one in the example I brought up, says something is "just sex."

                When a man has a "just sex" relationship with a woman, he had to earn that. He had to game the fuck out of a woman, prove he was worth fucking, and has to work diligently to maintain that status with the woman. When she fucks him, it's not just friction for his dick. It's amazing validation. He's not giving her anything -- not commitment, not promises, nothing. And she's fucking him, not as a transaction, but just because she wants to. All she's getting out of the deal is sex. She wants him because he's a worthy man. That's an amazing feeling. It's so much more than "just sex."

                When a woman has "just sex" it means she threw on something sexy and sat around in a bar, let guys walk up to her, and went home with the hottest one, then laid there and let him stick his penis inside of her until he came. It's validating for her because the fact that twelve guys hit on her and she got to turn down eleven and fuck one means she's pretty.

                [–]abcd_z 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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                And this is precisely why I practice PUA Polyamory. She loses interest and sexual attraction when she knows she has a guy, so just never let her have you.

                [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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                What do you expect when gender roles are reversed, as they are today? Everything relationship-wise becomes a shitstorming clusterfuck.

                [–]snwborder52 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                Your description of 'men' and women in relationship is spot on.

                However the 'man' you describe is not a man, he's a boy. A man:

                • Sets boundaries
                • Puts himself first
                • Self-Validaties
                • Is Courageous
                • Is Honorable.

                Then 'men' you describe sound nothing like that.

                But he’ll put up with anything for his woman, and put up with anything from his woman. He’ll fight for her, he’ll change for her, he’ll work for her, he’ll do anything she wants, because he loves her and wants her to be happy needs her to validate him.

                FTFY

                [–]mojo_magnifico 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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                Replace 'man' with 'beta' and this post makes sense.

                [–]JohnNashoba 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                Guys do the exact same thing to women too. It's definitely not as one-sided or generalized as your present it.

                [–]ADarkerNight 5 points6 points  (3 children)

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                Well thought out post.

                I think this kind of male romantic mentality was on full display in the thread the other day about cheating. Men are fiercely loyal and devoted when they find a woman they want to give their commitment to. Women, not so much.

                All the talk about monogamous honor and faithfulness being a necessary part of LTRs smacks of male hamstering. It's great that we feel these kind of ways, but it is naive to think women feel the same way towards commitment as we do.

                It is a beautiful thing that men have these romantic feelings, but it sucks when they end up bitting us in the ass.

                [–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad 10 points11 points  (2 children)

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                Women do feel commitment... towards their kids. Only once those kids move out of the house does the man have a chance to rise above family dog status and get reasonable access to a withered pussy... Sigh.

                [–]johngalt1234 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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                Which is why for women to wear the pants in the relationship spells disaster for the man. Only when men is the dominant partner is there the most likelihood of a just treatment of all the members of the family. As men love deeper than women but women cannot do likewise.

                [–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                Which is why for women to wear the pants in the relationship spells disaster for the man.

                Totally agree. Women crave your masculinity but will strip you of it just to keep other women away. Then they will betray you for a more masculine guy. Not that your loss of masculinity is ever a woman's fault. It's all too easy to just let yourself go and hand the reins over to a woman in a LTR. Then blame her for being the bitch when you've chosen the way of the slob. Keeping the pants on is tiresome but essential.

                [–]get_it_together1 1 point2 points  (2 children)

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                The whole point of this sub is that girls are attracted more to the asshole douchebag than the whiny romantic sap. The point of the story was that some stupid girl went off and fucked around and thought that her beta would still be waiting for her, but the beta wised up fast, moved on, and found what he was looking for.

                Claiming that "Men are the romantic sex" seems a bit odd in this sub.

                [–]johngalt1234 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                This book proves that men are the more romantic sex: http://therawness.com/AFP.pdf

                [–]mojo_magnifico -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

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                It's hilariously odd. Was not surprised to see a -8 next to the OP's name, Archwinger is sadly still plugged in.

                The fact is both sexes are "romantic", but they can't help constant screening of their partner to guage how dependent they are. Beta men and ugly women both fail at realizing this and give away their scarcity mentality, which all humans are repulsed by.

                [–]nessfalco 1 point2 points  (8 children)

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                This isn't really gendered. Men get bored too. It's all about who has the power, i.e. feels like they are dating down. Once the new-relationship-drug-cocktail wears off, both partners are subject to waning attachment if their partner doesn't live up to their expectations.

                When a man and a woman fall in love, the man becomes fiercely loyal, devoted, and if he’s an insecure, unmanly man, he also becomes kind of needy and controlling and manipulative. But he’ll put up with anything for his woman, and put up with anything from his woman. He’ll fight for her, he’ll change for her, he’ll work for her, he’ll do anything she wants, because he loves her and wants her to be happy. Even when she pisses all over him, he’ll change as best he can and do whatever he can to keep her. Because he loves her. He’s a romantic, and he wants this love to endure any hurdles, hiccups, and hardships.

                Women do this too. "Dread game" relies on it. It comes down to the fact that attraction and good sex wreak havoc on your brain's pleasure center and send all kinds of addictive hormones coursing through your body—to be in love is to be an addict, and every addict just wants a hit.

                [–]1Ill_mumble_that 4 points5 points  (6 children)

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                Men get bored too.

                If I'm getting the sex I want from the girl I'm with, I do not get bored of her. I may want additional girls, but I still want her just as much.

                The only time I get bored is if she is not putting out, and I am sure to let her know that if she wants a relationship with me she better put out as much as I think is reasonable.

                [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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                If I'm getting the sex I want from the girl I'm with, I do not get bored of her.

                Can appreciate your opinion here, but don't personally agree. I frequently get bored of girls regardless of good sex its hard to find a decent conversation.

                [–]1Ill_mumble_that 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                it's hard to find a decent conversation.

                I have male friends for this reason. Conversation with women will never compare, so I don't focus on it. If I'm going to spend time alone with a woman it's going to be doing something I wouldn't do with my male friends.

                [–]nessfalco 6 points7 points  (3 children)

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                Chris Rock has a great bit, I think from Never Scared: "Show me a beautiful woman and I'll show you a man that's tired of fucking her."

                He's right.

                Half of the fun is in chasing the dragon, getting off on girls getting off on you. Eventually you get bored of it. You may still have sex with them, like them, love them, but you don't pursue with the same ardor you would a woman that really got to you.

                If I'm getting the sex I want from the girl I'm with, I do not get bored of her. I may want additional girls, but I still want her just as much.

                Yet you still chase novelty.

                I'm not saying that men and women respond to the situation in exactly the same way, but saying that men are completely loyal in love and that only women get bored and cruel as the OP does is patently false. Most people require some type of novelty to stay interested and doing so with a partner isn't exclusive to women.

                What young guy going to college wouldn't try the same arrangement with his high school girlfriend besides the one that undervalues himself so much that he thinks his first "love" is his only "love"? The whole OP reeks of someone with crippling self-esteem issues.

                But it’s never “just sex” for a man. Because sex for a man is a little more difficult than putting on a tight dress, walking into a bar or club, and leaving at last call with with the hottest guy that approached, it actually has value and meaning to a man.

                The OP is chasing validation from sex just like any woman that would be criticized here. He's attaching far too much emotional significance to casual encounters. He is absolutely right to criticize a woman that thinks a guy should be ok with this arrangement—no guy should—but it's foolish and irresponsible to claim that men are incapable of being equally selfish in an analogous situation.

                Where I really have trouble with the OP is here:

                When a man and a woman fall in love, the man becomes fiercely loyal, devoted, and if he’s an insecure, unmanly man, he also becomes kind of needy and controlling and manipulative. But he’ll put up with anything for his woman, and put up with anything from his woman. He’ll fight for her, he’ll change for her, he’ll work for her, he’ll do anything she wants, because he loves her and wants her to be happy. Even when she pisses all over him, he’ll change as best he can and do whatever he can to keep her. Because he loves her. He’s a romantic, and he wants this love to endure any hurdles, hiccups, and hardships. When a man and a woman fall in love, the woman becomes fiercely disinterested. Now that the man has committed himself to her and is constantly doing shit for her, it’s not really interesting any more. It’s not a challenge. Each gift and compliment and gesture is routine and expected, and she didn’t have to earn it. The thought of having sex with this guy isn’t as exciting as it was when she was first pursuing him. It’s actually kind of a turn-off now. She thought the chemistry and the spark were there, but they’ve faded. She gives things a chance and goes through the motions, but she knows she’s not in this for keeps and hopes that he’s not getting too attached, because it’s girls’ night next Friday, and she’s going to the club with her friends, and who knows what might happen?

                There is nothing about this particular to women. I've had women act exactly like the male depicted here when I was completely uninterested in furthering the relaitonship. I've also been the guy and I know how much all of this stings. But it isn't gendered. It is insecure, unhappy people declining to take responsibility for their feelings and ascribing responsibility to their partners, who then come to resent them for it.

                [–]fresco5 2 points3 points  (2 children)

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                I agree with both you and OP. There are always exceptions to the rule and I have most certainly been the uninterested one in more than a couple of relationships. That really isn't the case most of the time, though. Until a man has had his fill of women and a taste of what it's like to get what he wants, he will most likely end up as the loser in relationships. By default, a man will be the one who falls in love and stays in love while his partner loses interest unless he works to change that dynamic.

                The difference, as you know, is that the man has to work to become that person. Once he has improved himself and eventually falls in love (if that's his goal), it tends to mean more because he actually earned it. Women don't have experience in earning love, they get it by default. So once a man has become a man and falls in love in a healthy way, he will tend to be more of a romantic than his girlfriend / wife. IMO

                I agree with the Chris Rock bit but I think after an undetermined amount time both people become sick of each other.

                [–]nessfalco 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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                Thanks for the response.

                The difference, as you know, is that the man has to work to become that person. Once he has improved himself and eventually falls in love (if that's his goal), it tends to mean more because he actually earned it. Women don't have experience in earning love, they get it by default.

                I think this is accurate. Women certainly don't earn admiration to the degree that most men have to.

                So once a man has become a man and falls in love in a healthy way, he will tend to be more of a romantic than his girlfriend / wife. IMO

                While I agree with your point, we may have to unravel what a "healthy way" to love is, as I think there's a good chance the behavior of the hypothetical guy in the OP doesn't exactly embody it.

                I agree with the Chris Rock bit but I think after an undetermined amount time both people become sick of each other.

                It's all about the "tingles" for men and women alike. The difference is in what causes them for each. When the feel-good dopamine/oxytocin cocktail wears off, it takes respect (self and mutual), commitment, and a shared mission to keep things going. The problem is so many people are desensitized and expect the constant rush that fantasy provides that most don't give the latter part a chance. Some might argue that women are more vulnerable to that, but I think that's disingenuous.

                Until a man has had his fill of women and a taste of what it's like to get what he wants, he will most likely end up as the loser in relationships. By default, a man will be the one who falls in love and stays in love while his partner loses interest unless he works to change that dynamic.

                Assuming a smaller % of men date a larger % of women, there is probably some truth to this.

                [–]Dr_Acu1a 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                Goddamn right. I have an addictive personality, which has lead to most of my problems with relationships. It's all just a big fix, and I tend to get a little pissed when my fix is being a total bitch. The obvious solution would be to get your shit under control and find your fix elsewhere, which is where TRP comes in.

                [–]bam2_89 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                [–]reddishman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                /relationships> </life-lesson>

                [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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                [deleted]

                  [–]awoods5000 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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                  I get the guy part of it but why do women feel cheated if men share feelings with another girl

                  [–]Dubba 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  Because she's the one who is supposed to be softening you up so that you'll (wrongly) emotionally confide in her - not some random other girl she's probably never met.

                  [–]cascadecombo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  Men are the ones who pine after sweet, pretty, virginal girls, who never give them the time of day, then end up fucking some asshole douchebag. Men are the ones who stick around with this girl anyway, hoping she’ll eventually recognize how devoted they are to her. Women are the ones who are annoyed by this kind of man and wish he’d go away.

                  That kind of man is the kind who isn't doing anything for himself. Which is why she shows no interest. Just like the annoying girl who wont leave you alone (assuming she isn't dolled up) you don't want to give her the time of day.

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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                  Don't know if it's posted in this thread already, but men are romantics pretending to be realists and women are realists pretending to be romantics. Trust that.

                  [–]nessfalco 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  I like that. Any source?

                  [–]johngalt1234 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  If romanticism does not work with women perhaps it was misplaced all along. Because believe it or not historically there used to be romance between men called blood brotherhood:

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJHRta7iopU

                  [–]ENTiciPated 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  Amen to you brah

                  [–]2_much_shibe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  This is so true. I have been on both sides of the spectrum, I started off as the asshole that hardly pays attention to this girl. But then after a while I actually fell for her. Within weeks of me giving her my attention and constantly being together-she cheats on me. I have never been so hurt in my entire life. It's not always the boys that just want action...

                  [–]Hrel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  This is a very well written, well presented and compelling argument. I am saving it, please don't delete the post.

                  [–]phasetwenty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  In her mind, not only was she an awesome girlfriend – she was faithful to him – because while she had a lot of sex, she never pursued a romantic relationship with anyone else. In her mind, it was all “just sex,” so her half-boyfriend had nothing to worry about. After all, he was free to have “just sex,” too, right?

                  Warrants more attention. This is why women are more likely to forgive cheating than men: sexual fidelity simply isn't as important to women. At the same time, women care far more about the "emotional fidelity" than men do. If the man falls in love with someone else, this will be much more damaging than the sex alone.

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  Damn dude. I never browse TRP because of all the bad stories I hear about it, but you've just answered a thought I've had for a while now. Quality post.

                  [–]winndixie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  Show her that you can easily call another girl out to "lunch" or to "catch up on each other's lives." Can't agree with /u/DeaconBastard more, women want what other women want.

                  Even when you're in a relationship. Nay, ESPECIALLY when you're in a relationship. I need to remember this myself, next time I'm in one, actually...

                  [–]physicalchemistry 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  although your analysis is quite stunning I suppose she indeed felt like the "perfect girlfriend", although there is a point of "just sex" it goes deeper than that. As young, attractive (?) female she has never experienced consequences. therefore she had "just sex" and there was no difference to her between "just sex" "no sex".

                  How often are girls told "Just be honest, there won't be a punishment, but you need to understand what you did wrong "

                  [–]N0ty0urHuckl3b3rry 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  Is this paragraph worded properly?

                  When a man and a woman fall in love, the woman becomes fiercely disinterested. Now that the man has committed himself to her and is constantly doing shit for her, it’s not really interesting any more. It’s not a challenge. Each gift and compliment and gesture is routine and expected, and she didn't have to earn it. The thought of having sex with this guy isn't as exciting as it was when she was first pursuing him. It’s actually kind of a turn-off now. She thought the chemistry and the spark were there, but they've faded. She gives things a chance and goes through the motions, but she knows she’s not in this for keeps and hopes that he’s not getting too attached, because it’s girls’ night next Friday, and she’s going to the club with her friends, and who knows what might happen?

                  If so it seems that you are contradicting yourself. By that I mean that if a women is in love, truly in love, which is what I assume "falls in love" means. At least that's what it means for me. So the rest of that paragraph basically is an argument against her being in love, as she is displaying actions that contradict even just caring for someone, much less love. Again, that's the vibe I got and I could have read that wrong.

                  As for the rest of the post. I read the post you are referring to and it's borderline insane, not to mention pathetic and disgusting on her part. You are correct that she thought she was either doing him a favor and doing the right thing. The thing is is that is not a bad situation if both parties understand and are willing. But that usually means checking in and talking about it along the way. Assumptions are the enemy here, as she found out. The guy did what every other guy would do when she first broke up with him and proposed this arrangement and that is thinking she was just saying it to ease the pain. I would have thought that.

                  The theme of your post is rather accusatory considering this is a big deal and a horrible mindset to have. I'm not saying it's not true and I hate to use the "Not All" argument, but I have seen this type of mindset in both sexes. I agree men are more romantic, by default, than women. And the issue, in my opinion, is that women seem to have to try to be romantic. They have to consciously change their mindset. And that is what I get from the red pill in general is that women instinctivly (sp) hamster and other things we point out and condemn. And if you think about it that was one of the ways of furthering our species so it has become part of our "lizard brain". So I try not to blame them, I mean would would you blame an autistic person for being autistic? I know this might be vague and general, but I am open for criticisms.

                  [–]CheekyChipmunk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  I know this isn't very related, but this subreddit is the shit. Thanks for the input my man

                  [–]MockingDead 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  Excellent post.

                  The bathetic TL:DR would be: Women fall for commitment, men fall for beauty/sex.

                  [–]10199 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                  This is total and complete bullshit. It is the mans fault just as much as the woman. I am guessing that the OP is single and not married. You failed at finding the right women to date. That is YOUR fault, not the women. Start going after quality women and stop dating a girl cause she has a nice ass.

                  [–]hntr16 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                  so true

                  [–]KikiIggy -1 points0 points  (1 child)

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                  This is a very "us vs them" attitude. Would it be so outlandish to believe that maybe pushover people get treated that way, regardless of gender? Maybe don't be such a doormat and try to rationalize perspectives of people as individuals. This post as well as any post about gender roles in dating is immature. People are all just people. Stop lumping us all into categories that you've made up based upon your experience of letting potential mates treat you like shit.

                  [–]Leonard_Church 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                  Yeah, as this sub has gotten bigger I have really begun to notice a trend of "Us vs. Them" posts rising to the top. I think a lot of it has to do with /r/mensrights betas finding this sub and using it to soapbox their views through a slanted lense.

                  When TRP first started it was all about about pickup advice, game, and bettering yourself. It's sad to see how many people think TRP is about "winning at the sexual shooting gallery". In actuality TRP is about becoming an elevated Human being, bettering yourself socially, intellectually, and physically. Succeeding in sexual exploits is a positive side effect, not the end goal. Swallowing the pill is a gift to yourself, it's not something you do for others.

                  Women are still perfectly capable of love, it just manifests itself differently. When people write about how women will ignore men once the guy shows their devotion or affection towards them, that's a huge sign that the men writing these things have scraping the bottom for sluts, and easy lays at bars at 3 in the morning. Of course those women will cheat and have no concept of value in a man, that's why they are where they are. Any woman of value is going to be married by 25, and it seems like many men in this subreddit are stuck with the broken leftovers.

                  [–]ModelCitizenKane -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                  I think it goes both ways and that men and women are both humans with different personalities and beliefs. Its ignorant to label one gender as this or that because you've met a certain number of people in that gender and many of them have a certain personality trait. Its akin to racial profiling and doesn't do anyone any good. Sure, keep your past experiences in mind when you meet someone new but remember that the women you've met in the past are not the same as the woman you are talking to now.

                  [–]wizdum -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                  Women are ruthless, men are ruthless, women are caring empathetic and romantic, men are caring empathetic and romantic... There's more behaviour in common with those types than within the gender.

                  There's a massive amount of selection bias going on in here..,

                  Get over your shitty experiences with shitty women, stop bitching and become a man that the kind of woman you want would be into. Or go after men, or become a monk, whatever... But these epic pathetic rants achieve nothing.
                  If you've been burnt by misunderstanding reality and human behavior, adjust your understanding and carry on. Complaining is pointless.

                  [–]tyson901 -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

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                  Source?

                  [–]17 Endorsed ContributorArchwinger[S] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

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                  Source?

                  I have absolutely no source or legitimacy. None of us do. Pay us no attention at all and close your browser. Please stop reading The Red Pill immediately and never view it again.

                  [–]reddishman 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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                  Agree and amplify. Perfect !

                  [–]tyson901 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                  Relax. I just wanted to read the original post, because I thought it would be entertaining, and not because I don't believe you.

                  [–]big_cheddars -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

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                  OP: god women never understand how amazing and romantic I am and also go for jerks. Why do they never go for Nice a Guys like me who appreciate them and all their nice sexytimes.

                  I actually pity you OP, I really do, but that doesn't stop me thinking you're a cunt and a whiny little bitch.