all 113 comments

[–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 57 points58 points  (5 children)

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While a 20+-year incel who can’t get two words out in the presence of a woman without being threatened with rape charges can easily identify his shortcomings and leap to The Red Pill with great enthusiasm, a beta gets just lucky enough, just often enough that he thinks to himself, “I’m doing fine without that stupid Red Pill shit. I just need to stay the course, and eventually I’ll find the right girl.”

As an attractive guy this couldn't hit any closer to home. I stayed blue throughout most of my 20's because of my occasional easy lay here and there. It wasn't until a string of successive relationship failures that I eventually put two and two together to figure out that I wasn't generating any desire in them, just physical attraction.

You want to experience the greatest headrush as a man? Try being with a woman that wants to get with you no matter how much you tell her no. A woman that calls you up to come over even when she knows you're fucking someone else.

Blue Pill me was so excited at the prospect at eventually becoming someone's beta bux. I'm glad I failed so hard that I became a winner.

[–]RevBoni 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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'I'm glad I failed so hard I became a winner.' Nice line!

[–]boredinclass2 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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This is the biggest change for me reading the red pill. Im 23 and have hot women texting ME to hang out now--and they know im fucking other girls. They just dont care. I cant remember the last time I got down there and had to "warm them up". It sounds like im bragging, and I am, but it's a great feeling when all this is coming to you when you used to be blue pill and fantasized about being a bread winner. Now I fantasize about what book im going to read next, dieting, working out, and my blossoming career. I enjoy women, but to be honest, they are an afterthought now.

[–]Crimson_Rot 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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Pillow talk forced me to swallow the pill.

Girls allows spill TRP truths.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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Great post sir, have my upvotes.

[–]myschadenfreude 111 points112 points  (26 children)

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In retrospect my ex-wife never desired me our entire marriage. We'd have "sex" every two weeks to every two months. Quotes? Because it felt so transactional, no kissing, a minute or two lackluster bj, 3 to 5 minutes missionary and/or doggie. In bed, except for occasional shower sex "clean up is quicker". I waited to cum, except rare occasion, until after she came.

She would leave the room immediately after, rarely longer than 10 minutes beginning to end.

There was zero affection otherwise. Less than 5 times a year I'd get a random 3 second hug. Affection was so rare it was shocking when it did happen.

I thought this was my fault and tried to love her more.

Surprisingly, she left me for a coworker who dropped her like a hot potato once he heard we were divorcing (I saw incriminating texts and confronted her).

Funny thing is she was thankful to him because he showed her she "...didn't have to live like this." Lol I'm handsome, educated, funny, have a good job, well spoken and have a good head of hair. He had neither!

Last I heard she was living hand to mouth in a shitty run down part of town (her exact state when I met her 8+ years ago). I couldn't be happier for her. (My details on her are slim as she wants nothing at all to do with me.)

Me? Better work out schedule, newer better job with even more pay, and happy as hell with all facets of life.

I'm also desired now :-)

EDIT: My Beta ways died with that relationship. I thought she was my "soulmate(tm)" and she clearly wasn't. I'm a changed man. Hurt for a year then focused inward on bettering myself. Saw this sub and saw a lot of my innate behaviors.

Mistakes you learn from become lessons. Mistakes you don't learn from are failures.

[–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 28 points29 points  (0 children)

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Sounds like my first wife, but the end result is the same with both. I don't need a revenge fantasy either, they both are far worse off now than I am, and than when they were with me. Second wife loved to fuck, daily to at most every three days, she needed it as often as I did, plus she is kinky so we had lots of fun.

I got sick and watched the desire vanish, and I knew it was a matter of time before I had to kick her ass out for cheating. Once I was well enough, I started working on me, and about the time I was directed to trp I was in good enough shape to fuck hot young women again.

The first is about 270 lbs, married to a loser that sits around all day and bends to her will. The second went the other way, she is about 90lbs, might be on meth, and has to live with her parents because her jobs don't pay shit. Her boyfriend has been fired from every EMT job in our area, so he had to go to another state, I'm sure he will be back when they discover how useless and inept he is despite his arrogance. Then he can live off her daddy until he dies., or she gets tired of supporting him.

I don't have the imagination to make this shit up.

[–]1iluminatiNYC 14 points15 points  (0 children)

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My issue was more feast or famine during my marriage. It was either pity sex or a grand production, with nothing in between. Whenever she noticed I wasn't putting up with the garbage, she's break out the tricks. I mean anal, bondage, tantra...you name it. After a while, I picked up on the pattern and told her that is she wasn't in the mood for sex with me, don't bother. All of a sudden, the amount of sex declined rapidly, and it helped me make up my mind as to what she was about.

[–]TaylorWolf 4 points5 points  (3 children)

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Wow. Great post. Your wife had everything she could ever want "on paper" yet she couldn't "live like this".

It's crazy and fucked up the kind of man a woman is attracted to IMO. We have to be someone we are not in order to get laid. I guess eventually you just become that guy though.

[–]john-b 16 points17 points  (1 child)

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It's a common misconception that by your mid 20s, you become who you will be for your entire life. At any point in life you can wake up and say "I'm not happy with who I am" and actively change it. It takes hard work and dedication but you can become the man you want to be at any time. If you were set in your ways for 30 years it will be of course harder but it's possible and people do it all the time. Usually people look at the work required and lazy out.

[–]LukeMooney 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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"every passing minute is a chance to turn it all around" - guess the film.

[–]myschadenfreude 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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Lol no way will I become "that guy" he's a loser, no real education, no career. I heard he's going bald and is a dick. I'll take my college education, good looks, good job, and good life.

Her problem is she doesn't want to be happy, doesn't know what makes her happy, and is a self absorbed person with limited social skills except for some mildly sociopathic skills most probably from her issues with her parents.

[–]pleasedontknowme30 8 points9 points  (15 children)

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gdamnit...feels. When my wife and I have sex, it is good...she just doesn't desire me or come on to me, ever. It is fucking depressing. People in TRP can say all they want "men are supposed to charge, lead, yada yada" but there is actually something that feels good, to the soul, when a woman is tingling and wants to put her hands all over you. Fucking depresses me.

[–]1bicepsblastingstud 15 points16 points  (3 children)

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People in TRP can say all they want "men are supposed to charge, lead, yada yada" but there is actually something that feels good, to the soul, when a woman is tingling and wants to put her hands all over you. Fucking depresses me.

Guess what!

If you are high-value, and if you lead, women will want to put their hands all over you.

I've no idea how you some how put the two things in opposition to each other.

[–]robesta 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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I agree completely with what you said, but I found with my ex wife, no matter how much higher value and desirable I am, she is not attracted to me. I'm not sure if there is way to change that.

[–]writeonbrother 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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Get a divorce.

[–]robesta 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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Get a divorce

One step ahead of you. My point was, sometimes old relationships cannot be saved by being awesome.

[–]myschadenfreude 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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Take control of your life and take action. Become a man you respect. If she doesn't respect and love you then, she is not for you.

Start NOW.

[–]_JustKnight_ 1 point2 points  (6 children)

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People in TRP can say all they want "men are supposed to charge, lead, yada yada"

When we say that it applies to everything in life except sex. That's where if you are doing it right, she should be begging.

[–]pleasedontknowme30 2 points3 points  (5 children)

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ha, then I am doing SO MUCH fucking wrong. fml. Hell I am just trying to not get divorced right now.

[–]allcapsisyelling 5 points6 points  (2 children)

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That's what you are doing wrong.

[–]1AfterC 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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^

You're playing into her imperative, pleasedontknowme, and that's why you're a fucking bitch and she's walking all over you.

Sidebar, fella, you'll get there. Change is gunna come, but slowly.

[–]pushajudas 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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Nah b, self-preservation is the name of the game right now. No one said he wanted to be married to her or save the relationship. He doesn't want to get divorce-raped right now. Becoming homeless is a shitty thing.

[–]MrsStrom 4 points5 points  (1 child)

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Start treating yourself like a ten. Act like a ten. Become a ten. You don't need her.

If she leaves, you can date younger, hotter women who will appreciate you. If she stays, you don't have to go through a divorce. Either way, you win.

[–]pleasedontknowme30 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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agreed.

[–]DanReggins 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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Men want to be desired.

We're here for to help you get better, bro. You lift and dress well?

[–]pleasedontknowme30 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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415lb deadlift :) but yea I dress alright.

[–]Get_Them_Now 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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Its the look

[–][deleted]  (3 children)

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[deleted]

    [–]rpkarma 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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    Because girls suck at saving money and dealing with finances responsibly, would be my guess.

    [–]myschadenfreude 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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    No kids, no alimony, job with no advancement opportunities. She wanted "out" that bad she took her stuff, the pets (unfortunately I'll never see them again, I tried) and she split.

    We were trying to do the American Dreamtm buy a home, get careers on track, get married and have a stable life. To the best of my knowledge she is working 3rd shift and hanging out with people 10 years her junior who mindlessly hang out and drink and have no life plans. She actually felt "oppressed" by me working hard and trying everyday to build a better more stable life for us.

    She doesn't want to be happy and cannot live with another person. Example: every roommate left in 6 months and she divorced her first husband in the first year. She probably gaslighted her history with him so I thought it was a justified divorce. We were together 6 years married almost 4, I can only imagine the lack of truth and gaslighting being done to me.

    EDIT: Added her job has no room for advancement. Additional fun fact: She's getting into her late 30's. She is going to have a couple of relationships and tie on hubby #3 in a passionless relationship until that fails in her 40's then single cat lady 50's on. My honest and spin free guess.

    [–]6Invalidity 46 points47 points  (2 children)

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    To fuck you because she wants to, and no other reason. The Red Pill isn't strictly about achieving sex with women.

    The point to hit home. Having sex with a woman is whimsical at best. You can beg for sex, pay for sex, use pickup skills to get sex... the point is, you want to build yourself up to become a legend, a man who defies all odds and can put in minimal effort to bed a girl.

    It's the equivalent of an iceberg. The tip of the iceberg is small compared to what's underneath. All the hardwork and dedication you put in to yourself is the iceberg underneath. What you want to show people and what you want people to see is the tip of the iceberg, so that everything you do looks natural.

    [–]Corn7 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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    This analogy is fucking golden.

    [–]Get_Them_Now 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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    Just show them the beautiful small tip of that iceberg while you got a fucking glacier the size of the titanic underneath.

    [–]Schrodingersdawg 51 points52 points  (4 children)

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    You will never have to question if a woman is into you if she is truly into you. Mixed messages are used to lead men on so they can become orbiters, if they want to fuck you then they'll basically do all the work for you.

    Aiming to learn chatting up women is secondary to aiming to increase your value to where they approach you. Don't be neckbeard bob spitting game. Be muscular Tony who has fun without paying attention to women, without needing women.

    [–]Johnny_Shades 15 points16 points  (2 children)

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    As good as this can be, game is a big part of attraction. I've been seeing more and more "don't put in any effort and have fun" when in reality, this sub is partly about how to put in effort and the right techniques to use. Develop your game while not needing a woman to take home.

    [–]Schrodingersdawg 15 points16 points  (1 child)

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    The thing is, many new members will make the mistake of thinking game is the end all be all of everything, "I only need game, I'll work on self improvement later." In reality, I'd say self improvement will do a lot of working on game for you, especially inner game.

    Learn to be confident, get fit, get big, dress nice before you start spitting lines. Then the lines will come naturally without having to be rehearsed.

    [–]1veggie_girl 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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    When you think you are awesome, she will too. When you think you are sexy, she will too.

    Women are very observant of your body language and speech, and the manner in which you present both. If you exude confidence from within yourself they will be attracted to it. This is because women are water, looking for a strong container to take the shape of. You have to be that strong container in your own mind before you can ever make a woman believe that you are.

    [–]FaithfulJinn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Women will almost never approach you, no matter how attractive you are.

    Women's only mating strategy is to get the guys they want to notice them enough to approach them.

    [–]Dark triad expert: - http://illimitablemen.com/ - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 30 points31 points  (4 children)

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    He receives just enough of a trickle of sex to think that he’s on the right track, and that if he keeps it up, eventually he’ll hit the jackpot and everything will be good.

    Trickle down economics is bullshit, if there's anything crony capitalism and the 2008 housing bubble has taught us it's that the rich get rich and the poor get poorer. Alpha fucks harems are getting bigger, beta bucks bank accounts are getting raped more, it's a tough economy you see, economically, sexually, and everywhere where that overlap occurs. Pussy isn't gonna trickle down to the "lesser men" pussy, like money, is monopolised/horded by those at the top, and those at the bottom are starved or get the occasional scrap. Doing the same provenly unsuccessful crap over and over again isn't going to magically start working for you all of a sudden. It's not like you're in a basement of celibacy and there's a trap door above you and if you keep poking it with your cock it'll finally give way to a battalion of naked victoria's secret models that will rain down on your sex deprived body like a UN food drop in a famine-ridden african village. What do you do in this bullshit economy if there are no jobs for your skillsets? Find a niche and start your own business/service in that niche, make a name for yourself in it and start earning REAL BANK.

    If you want to say fuck the system, find out how to legally avoid paying tax in your country if that's not possible find out how to at least mitigate your liability, if your govt has relationships with foreign banks forcing them to divulge your accounts and hiding money isn't possible, wait until your business is doing well enough to pay you your cut no matter where you live in the world and earn US DOLLARS whilst living in a low cost of living country, say somewhere like south america, get that first world money paid in whilst living in a second/third world country, you're getting the income you'd get back home but your liability has now moved to your new cheaper jurisdiction and thus the american taxman can't get at your money. Learn a new language in the process and live it up as a king rather than slave away in the american, english or whatever developed world ratrace it is you come from.

    Anyhow I've digressed in my attempt to be analogous, back to the whole pussy side of "resources dont trickle down" topic, you're not going to get the kind of sex life you desire for yourself by continuing to meet questionably attractive women off okcupid and sustaining all your current habits, no, what you need to do is reinvent yourself into a better, more fuckable person or like /u/Archwinger says, a desirable one. Someone you like more that is stronger and sexier than who you currently are, to the point where you like yourself so much and have so much to back that up that your frame/confidence radiates out and bitches think "shit, this guy is hot." Just like a financial overhaul your social value and sex appeal needs one too. They are two sides of the same coin.

    Essentially: Riches don't trickle down so you have to go and make your own wealth. Pussy doesn't trickle down for to the average men so you have to go and make yourself fuckable, likeable and desirable. It is really that simple. It's not easy, the words do it no justice, but that's what you have to do, with all the blood, sweat, tears and pain that such an endeavour is inclusive of. Not willing to do it? Well accept the mediocre life you have and resign yourself to averageness. You're not going to be a lothario or a millionaire or anything if you can't be fucked with yourself. Giving up on yourself is tantamount to spiritual suicide.

    How do you do those things? Xbox? No. Partying? No. Socialising? Minimally and on the cheap. You're going to be giving up your shitty behaviours and the rut you're caught up in being the same old unsuccessful self-disappointing person that you are and instead become obsessed with being better than you are because that's the only way you escape the purgatory of poverty and pussylessness you exist in. How do you do that? Well, I've already written about that, I'm not one to repeat 2,700~ words I've previously communicated, so instead you can save me from repeating myself and give me some pageviews for the trouble and actually make a change and improve who you are with "monk mode"

    Addendum: if your life is too comfortable you'll agree with shit like this/things we say in TRP, and then go back to watching game of thrones, make a sandwich, play some xbox, jerk off, read some internet, contemplate the things you read earlier feel too lethargic, go "naaaah" watch some more TV and then fall asleep. If your life is too comfortable you need to make yourself more uncomfortable or you will betray yourself and not give yourself the self-improvement that you need to overcome your more long time problems, eg: the fact that pussy is like a solar eclipse or a lunar landing for you rather than part of a healthy and varied psychosocial diet. Then there is the fact you have a crushingly low self-esteem/lack of confidence (typical in men nowadays) because you're not getting what you want out of life. If that sounds like you, welcome to the red pill, read a lot but don't stop at reading, it's the beginning but it's not enough, most of all you must fucking do something with yourself AND STOP BEING COMFORTABLE - IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE YOU WON'T IMPROVE YOURSELF YOU'LL GET LAZY.

    [–]member_of_adhd 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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    i skipped this comment at first but im really glad i read it

    [–]Kunichi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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    Strong comment

    [–]coreypee 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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    boom

    [–]Ultimativity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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    fucking hard hitting and true

    [–]magical_artist 16 points17 points  (10 children)

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    Brutal stuff. I am realizing my GF has showed a lot less desire for me over our time together, and that makes me wonder about long term viability.

    I don't want to be in a monogamous relationship, if my only sexual partner hardly is interested, inclined, or passionate about sex.

    Redpill is like an onion. Many layers to peel and unravel.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad 13 points14 points  (7 children)

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    my GF has showed a lot less desire for me

    But what have you done to stimulate her desire? In some ways, she's just the messenger.

    I've been guilty of drifting into beta. I look around at married dudes like me, and we're all fucking up on this. Masculinity dormant, trying to keep our women happy.

    TRP is evolutionary and revolutionary... The concept of frame was my revolution. Attending to my frame and not playing Mr. Fix-it to the shitty frames of others has made a world of difference.

    [–]Justus222 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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    Love how you put that.

    [–]Yoda7 0 points1 point  (5 children)

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    What is she doing to stimulate his desire? It sounds like your circling back to she is the prize mindset. If shes not the prize why is it up to him to stimulate her desire?

    [–]Beardsman2 2 points3 points  (4 children)

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    The red pill, this is. Changing oneself rather than the world, it is about. Help you not, will complaining about things that cannot change. Much to learn you have, young Yoda.

    [–]Yoda7 0 points1 point  (3 children)

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    That's all fine. But if I'm the prize I'm not worried about what she thinks, just what I am. It sounds like a beta mindset mixed in there.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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    She's the messenger in terms of her responsiveness. You're right that it's it's not about what she thinks/believes/says. Pay some attention to what she does and what turns her on. Not bluepill level of devotion/attention here; just be observant of her state of arousal.

    [–]Yoda7 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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    So shes the guinea pig, not the prize. Makes more sense then.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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    shes the guinea pig, not the prize.

    That's a great line.

    [–]boredinclass2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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    Your relations with the lassie are OGRE

    [–]Ultimativity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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    Watch High Fidelity. She wants him to grow up and fucks another guy to get him to do so. A lot of red pill shit goes on. But toward the end of the film you see his list of dream jobs and lose all respect for him.

    [–]RojoEscarlata 17 points18 points  (5 children)

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    On attraction, one thing that opened my eyes was how women don't ask me anymore if I have a condom.

    Back in my beta pua/sedditor time I used to pull a lot, but never really got to that point of real attraction, where women are so fucking horny, turned on and infatuated by you that they are willing (they want) to getting raw doged.

    Or maybe I'm just a romantic.

    [–]xiko 19 points20 points  (0 children)

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    The one that asks for the condom is the one with more to lose.

    [–]through_a_ways 14 points15 points  (1 child)

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    raw doged

    much sex

    [–]boredinclass2 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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    wow

    [–]steveob42 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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    or a bug chaser

    [–]RojoEscarlata 15 points16 points  (0 children)

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    Or unwanted pregnancies, etc. I wrap it up mostly because of children tho.

    Just because she wants to raw dog it, doesn't mean you should.

    [–]vox_veritas 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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    Great post, dude. I see so many people getting hung up on their partner count or the frequency of lays. First of all, sex shouldn't be the measuring stick. But more importantly, you have to consider why you're getting sex. Women provide sex for a reason -- it isn't random. Is she providing it because you give her tingles and she's interested in the sex itself? Or is she providing it because she is looking for you to provide for her or keep you in line to keep you as an orbiter? I would encourage people to evaluate their recent sexual encounters and really be self-critical in evaluating the events that led to the encounter with respect to why the sex happened.

    [–]laere 37 points38 points  (3 children)

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    Daily reminder that the number one person in the world that matters is YOU.

    YOU and ONLY YOU are the prize that women want. Work on yourself as a human being, and pussy will follow.

    Stay vigilant.

    [–]the_red_scimitar 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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    Patrice makes this point most forcefully.

    [–]M2izzie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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    Altruism is dead

    [–]jolly500 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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    Well said!!

    [–]defallama 24 points25 points  (9 children)

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    NEW lurker but gdammit after reading the post and some of the comments I am definitely going to read up on all this red pill shit

    [–]AIchemyst 16 points17 points  (7 children)

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    I'm in the same boat, I've read through the sidebar posts over the last couple days. I started out extremely skeptical, mostly due to the infamy TRP gets from other subreddits.

    However, most of it is solid, I feel like my eyes are being opened as a man for the first time after 30 years (which is funny, because you'd think I'd of been alpha enough from serving in the USMC [former beta bucks here]).

    [–]1bicepsblastingstud 15 points16 points  (2 children)

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    because you'd think I'd of been alpha enough from serving in the USMC

    It's fucking weird, man. I can't tell you how many combat arms soldiers and marines I know (nearly always junior enlisted) who have dependopotamus wives that just trample all over them.

    [–]defallama 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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    Didn't see your post until I already replied but yes.

    [–]CarlsPudding 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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    Former usmc checking in. Did my tour in dependopotomous-stan. It really is unfuckingbelievable how easily a woman can break what you think is a strong frame just because you're not familiar with the ROE.

    [–]defallama 3 points4 points  (2 children)

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    Hell yeah man. I was an Infantry Officer in the US Army and I've always been a sweet southern gentleman to my ladies. Well my fiancée just left so fuck it. Let's give TRP a try! It makes way more damn sense than what I have experienced so far.

    [–]1bicepsblastingstud 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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    Huh. That's way less common for officers.

    What do you do now, for work?

    Did you let yourself go physically?

    And... were you that captain that wears jeans, new balance tennis shoes, and a tan dryfit shirt out to the bars?

    [–]boredinclass2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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    It may be less common, but it happens a shit load. A lot of my friends are Army officers... it's sad but it still happens to them too.

    [–]the_red_scimitar 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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    And listen to The Black Phillip Show. All of it.

    [–]HitchSlap92 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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    My advice: don't listen to all the naysayers and those who claim to know what TRP is about. Read up for yourself. The testimonials on this subreddit speak for itself.

    [–]hashtagpound2point2 11 points12 points  (0 children)

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    If you have to entice a woman with gifts or affection to have sex with you, she's just throwing you a bone when she does eventually have sex with you. If she can't have sex with you just for the sake of having sex, she's not having a great time doing it (with you).

    [–]JGH8763 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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    Your post reminds me of a few of Julien Blanc's (RSD) videos. He talks about how he'll do anything to get laid, even beg. He'll use any tactic that works, no matter how beta it may seem. If it works, it works. He's one of the most sexually successful people I know of. As long as the sex is good quality, the women will keep coming back. If you convince her to give you pity sex, then fuck her better than James Deen would, she'll keep coming back, and she'll tell her friends, and they'll all want to fuck you. I see your point, but ultimately, being good at sex is what's going to make a woman "desire" you in the way you're referring. A guy with a high degree of LMS, a guy who conforms to all of the suggested behavior patterns TRP advises, is not going to be nearly as desired as a man who fucks her like a porn star, a man who gives her the highest quality sex of her life, regardless of how he initially got her to fuck him.

    [–]Homestaff17 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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    Being too busy, too successful, and too awesome to waste a single second trying to impress a woman is, ironically, impressive to women.

    The Red Pill epitomised.

    [–]ljubebanjeglav 3 points4 points  (1 child)

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    "And you can’t negotiate desire. There’s no amount of time, gifts, compliments, attention, validation, or favors you can trade to receive desire. In fact, the very attempt to make such a transaction kills desire. Trying to win a woman’s attraction is failing before you begin."

    Exactly.

    Or how the great French philosophical duo Deleuze and Guattari put:

    "Desire knows nothing of exchange, it only knows theft and gift".

    Just to share a thought with you guys, I've been thinking about this sentence a lot lately and the thing, I think it's Rollo's, that you can't negotiate desire. Namely I was thinking that there is a way to think "sexual economy" and desire not in terms of reciprocal equivalent exchange, but more in terms of theft and gift. And this conceptual duo theft/ gift can be sexuated so that the sexual difference passes through it, namely that theft is on the male side, and gift on the female. Remember the often repeated lamentation of women, described in many variations in songs about "the thief" who "stole her hearth". Or the expression that the woman "gives herself to a man". I know that there is a book by another French philosopher Jacques Derrida "Spurs, Nietzsche's Styles" about Nietzsche's conception of women and the feminine, and his understanding of sexual difference that is precisely formulated in these terms theft/ gift that I just shortly described. So, the thought in the end isn't even mine, I stole it!

    I remember also the work of an anthropologist Marcel Mauss "The Gift", that precisely claims that the economy (under this falls the "exchange of women") in primitive, savage societies functions more in terms of gift and theft, then in terms of an equivalent market exchange (and then market exchange isn't natural, it didn't exist always as Adam Smith thought and it isn't the natural way of exchange for man, if there is one). And also I was thinking if we go on to formulate the sexual economy in this way, what are it's ramifications for Redpill theory, who mainly uses market exchange as it's primary model (the sexual market and so fort).

    I still don't know what to think of it, I'm still struck by a thought whose consequences I have yet to discern.

    [–]Its_Eli 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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    Wow this is a very interesting idea. You should make a post and ask for opinions and ideas of other RPers.

    To me the idea of theft is basically not caring for women, she gets attracted but there is no reward. So she sees a challenge and a high value man that she can get. Of course you still have to put in some effort to keep her around, but not enough to show care in what she does and doesn't do.

    It basically what RP teaches now that i think about it. It just a more metaphorical way of putting things i suppose. Just typing out of my ass here.

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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    knows she’s not getting a long term relationship and marriage out of the deal. She just wants sex, with an awesome man. She desires him. That’s sexual success.

    I'd say the vast majority of women secretly wish to snag this desireable man down in a long term relationship, hoping their vagina will be the vagina to make him stay with her.

    [–]frankiejholden 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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    I realised about 6 months ago, that my wifes friends wanting to fuck me was a sign of my success as a man.

    [–]SovietRaptor 2 points3 points  (2 children)

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    This makes it sound like good sex and a good relationship are completely mutually exclusive. What do you think about that OP?

    [–]17 Endorsed ContributorArchwinger[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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    On the contrary, without one, you don't have the other. Women seek enthusiastic sex with men they respect. Frequent, enthusiastic, highly desired sex by a woman is a symptom of a great relationship.

    Women avoid sex and trickle out occasional duty sex with guys they're using that they don't respect. Transactional sex versus desire.

    [–]VelociReactor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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    Sounds like you need to re-assess your definition of a "good relationship"

    [–]FinnianWhitefir 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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    Yes. To sum up, many betas believe sex is bad, women don't want it, you have to do something for them to get them to have sex with you, and that corrupts your self-esteem and makes women the prize.

    Instead it is realistic and treats women as actual people to take on a "Sex is good, women want to have sex, become the kind of man that women will want to have sex with".

    [–]donit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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    The measure of an eloquent, vivid post worth archiving.

    [–]OrpheusV 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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    An interesting paradox, isn't it? Not focusing on sex being key to getting a ton of it.

    If nothing else, this post only confirmed that I should just focus on myself and improve above everyone else. I have a girlfriend, just need to come up with something awesome to do this week. Ideas?

    [–]Its_Eli 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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    Clean your room/house. This idea is always my priority for the weekend, from monday to thursday. Friday comes around and something usually comes up. If not, put some good music on and clean, you feel good at the end. :)

    [–]1bradyo2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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    /u/archwinger You're fast becoming my favourite poster on this sub.

    I'm seeing this post as a kick up the arse. I was starting to settle back into a less RP version of myself, and not surprisingly, starting to fail. I'm going to turn up the heat now though.

    [–]Cross_of_Coronado 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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    And you can’t negotiate desire. There’s no amount of time, gifts, compliments, attention, validation, or favors you can trade to receive desire. In fact, the very attempt to make such a transaction kills desire. Trying to win a woman’s attraction is failing before you begin.

    I'm in a relationship, even married by now and THIS is true! This is the TRUEST Sentence in all of RedPill. Whoever reads this and is not sure about TRP - Archwinger is a 100 % correct on this point.

    You can not "win" a Womans affection, it must flow to you freely, either by you being handsome, fit or doing cool stuff, but you can't "buy" a Woman. There, I said it. Feminists are very right on that point. You can not buy a Woman!

    Buy her roses > WON'T win her affection. Handle yourself well in a situation > WILL WIN her affection (For example)

    [–]CarlsPudding 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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    Thank you. This is exactly what I'm always trying to explain. This is what I come to TRP for. Not all this bio evolutionary theory crap or bitter posts about feminists (though they are amusing). This.

    You are exactly fucking correct. I got laid plenty without TRP. I'm not a spineless neckbeard loser in a fedora, and never have been. I was always happy with all the female attention I got, because I didn't recognize the fact that I was their plan B. The marrying kind. And I would fall right into it, and then have to be the one to break their poor little hearts.

    That was the hardest pill to swallow, and that's what I've been choking on over the past year. I would rather not get laid than continue being a fucking chump for these women. Thank you.

    [–]dancingwithcats 3 points4 points  (6 children)

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    Sorry, but wrong. The ultimate goal isn't just sex, and it's not just having sex with a woman who doesn't expect anything but sex. The goal is to find a mate. Some of us are lucky enough to find a girl who understands the differences between men and women but who can be a good partner in life. I feel rather sorry for men who think the goal is just to find women to fuck without expectation. I'll get downvoted for this, but I really do find it to be a bit pathetic. Sure, the fucking of multiple women is fun. It's part of the growing up process that some men go through. To stall there and not consider that one of those women might be a potential partner in life is pathetic though. Go ahead. Drain my karma :)

    EDIT: To elaborate, if that's really all you're after then fine, but you're missing out. Finding a true partner of the opposite sex is a wonderful thing, and it doesn't detract from your 'alphaness'. It enhances it. There is a reason why the majority of men who are successful in life have significant others. We enhance each other when it's right.

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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    You're right to a degree, but the target of much of this subreddit is males who are in the beginning of finding out how to be a suitable partner. I think what you're talking about is grand and beautiful, but it doesn't happen if the man isn't feeling himself desirable. The best times in relationships I've had have always been when I knew I was desired and could reciprocate. Desire is a fickle thing, doubly so in most women. It's important to remind everyone that desire is what this sub is about, everything else is just too individualized and constrained by context to make a generic topic about.

    [–]dancingwithcats 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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    Good points, and fair enough. I'm also older (47) than your typical redditor. When I was a kid I was all about getting laid. I still am, only now it's with my wife.

    [–]Ultimativity 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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    Don't you think though that men who are successful also get laid by someone other than their significant others?

    [–]dancingwithcats 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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    No, I really don't think so. Some do, yes, but there is no correlation there.

    [–]FaithfulJinn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    That's YOUR ultimate goal.

    Not THE ultimate goal.

    Do not confuse the two.

    [–]frankiejholden 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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    Well said.

    [–]JayStyles15 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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    so in todays youth society (15-19) desire is also what will drive women to want you or is there some special type of thing that I need to try

    [–]Movonnow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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    i need to print this So that i will read it evry Day. this gives evryone à life direction

    [–]tony_douglas 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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    dude this is so on point ... if we didnt care if girls were attracted to us, most men would just go live on the beach somewhere in costa rica or brazil and fuck hot escorts all the time

    the validation is surreptitious... we know its beta to want it, but validation is what makes the alpha the alpha

    I recently had some slight cosmetic work done, and its completely changing the way I am perceived. It really is a mindfuck when girls start feeling up your muscles and stuff unprovoked, not because of your body, but because of your chin and jaw line.

    ie my body didnt change... but its perceived to have gotten stronger because of my chin

    [–]1Zanford 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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    Bam. For me, the biggest gain of RP has been the quaLity of sex (crazy shrieking orgasms from her, no resistance to swallowing or anal, lots of BDSM, sexts and nude pics, whatver I want). QuaNtity gain has been less dramatic since I usually had LTRs anyway with sex basically on tap (but less freaky shit, and I wouldn't f*** her as hard.)

    Since RP the number and intensity of orgasms I've given girls has gonne waaay up (even tho I never do fingering or cunnilingus). Honestly my plates have seen as much benefit from RP as I have.

    [–]PlusGoody -1 points0 points  (1 child)

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    Could not disagree more.

    Caring about being desired is just a special case of popularity seeking, as beta as can be. Men of substance obtain women through the attraction of status and don't give a moment's thought to whether she'd prefer someone taller or more athletic or cooler. They don't allow dead bedrooms because they are gone the second a woman tries to pull that. They fully respect her choice and then next her without hesitation.

    [–]the_red_scimitar 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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    Re-read. You either stopped early or cherry-picked.

    [–]RPL23 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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    and saved.

    this is gold.

    [–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

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    Upvoted for the last sentence