top 200 commentsshow all 321

[–]InscrutablePUA 25 points26 points  (1 child)

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I like how he assumes that use of sexual strategy inevitably causes suffering of the woman. Based on many of the stories seen here, it seems that women love it when their man 'alphas up' and takes charge of things. If anything, women suffer when their man doesn't take charge and lead.

[–]rebuildingMyself 8 points9 points  (0 children)

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Women suffer when they chase after dark triad men and get pumped and dumped over and over (thinking with their vagina instead of their brain) . Or try to baby trap a man and it backfires so now she's a single mom. Or willingly get shitfaced and drunkenly consent to something she regrets the next day.

It seems misogyny is defined as the horrible idea that women are responsible for their own suffering.

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (3 children)

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That guy's main point was empathy, which I agree with. He is against men using TRP's info to hurt women, which undoubtedly happens. However, as a man, once your eyes have been opened to the reality of life, you choose what to do with that knowledge, and if you hurt women, it's your fault, not TRP's.

The problem I have with people like him is that they don't recognize that most men are affected by being ignorant of the realities that TRP exposes, and to me, enforcing this ignorance is the real injustice.

[–]kotel4 14 points15 points  (1 child)

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I had a hard time reading the post once I made it to this line:

It's not that I doubt what he's saying. I believe it. The problem is, what he's describing is emotional abuse. What the Red Pill advocates is taking advantage of common weak points in the typical female psyche

ACTUALLY, what the Red Pill advocates is no longer allowing women to take advantage of common weak point in the typical male psyche

[–]Overkillengine 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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Not teaching men red pill concepts just makes them targets for the dark triad women and men among us. It's like putting a lamb in a lion's den and expecting it to not get eaten.

[–][deleted]  (108 children)

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    [–]walterwhiteknight 136 points137 points  (16 children)

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    if you know something is attractive, it doesn't make you a bad person if you do that thing.

    Wait. Isn't that why girls, even feminists, wear makeup? Isn't that why pretty clothes exist? Hell, let's get down to nature. Isn't that why flowers have the right colors to attract bees and birds, to help with pollination?

    [–][deleted]  (9 children)

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      [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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        [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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            [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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              [–]TaylorWolf 18 points19 points  (2 children)

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              Oh yea, that withered grey flower will attract the right bee for sure.

              More like a fat caterpillar that eats it alive.

              [–]Ojisan1 15 points16 points  (0 children)

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              fat caterpillar

              I nominate that one for the glossary, right there.

              [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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              All's fair in love and war. And pollen dispersal.

              [–]Thzae 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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              This really is an insightful post. The funniest thing about all of this is that the thread on /r/bestof will only cause more people to come to this subreddit, and when some actually look for themselves and see what it's about they see that it makes a lot more sense than what they've been believing because everyone told them to.

              [–]OCASM 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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              [–]CarlsPudding 31 points32 points  (5 children)

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              I have been manipulated by every woman I have ever been in a relationship with. That whole post is NAWALT, stay the course, be yourself, true love will find you.

              It's a subtly disguised shaming attempt. If it doesn't come naturally, there's something wrong with you. Self improvement is manipulation, you silly little man. You don't have a say in this. You need to let the women decide if you're worthy.

              [–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 8 points9 points  (0 children)

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              She will when she is 35, has two kids or more, and needs a nice pudgy man that will put up with all her bullshit and fucking other men, while supporting her and some other mans kids.

              No thanks.

              [–]SacreBleuMe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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              If it doesn't come naturally, there's something wrong with you.

              So shut up, sit down with your porn and stop polluting the market with undercover low quality men.

              [–]1johnnight 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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              If you hit the gym and get buff, that's manipulative. You faked having good genes, which would make you attractive without physical effort.

              [–]Endorsed ContributorHarleyWalker 14 points15 points  (0 children)

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              The other side is if you intentionally act in a way that you know girls are attracted to, it is not true love.

              For me the red pill is more about accessing that masculine side of yourself so you make yourself something not artificial (which is how I tend to view PUAs). It's to prevent that hollow sort of existence.

              [–][deleted]  (10 children)

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                [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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                  [–]1mcdehuevo 36 points37 points  (2 children)

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                  ... And thus is uncovered the real reason why feminists complain about sexual strategy. They don't want a level playing field; they just want women to be able to manipulate men.

                  [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                    [–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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                    Its more fun to piss them off, then fuck em in the restroom or behind the dumpsters. Oh yeah, that never works, women never fuck a man who makes them mad... Lol

                    [–]noblepaladin 8 points9 points  (1 child)

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                    It is just the word manipulation that has a negative connotation. If a fat woman (I am using woman because it has a positive connotation for blue pillers), loses weight and she looks amazing, is she still fat? No. It's an actual, real, measurable change. So if a guy lifts weights and becomes a doctor, because he figures out that girls like it, is that manipulation? The girl isn't get some fat unemployed dude, she is actually getting what is advertised. She can verify that he actually is fit and that he actually is a doctor.

                    [–]cookiecutterbullshit 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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                    I think they have a different scenario in mind when they use the term manipulation. Their version of manipulation might be like when a woman gives last minute resistance, or says something like "we're not having sex tonight". If you two do end up having sex, it must be because you manipulated her because she explicitly said that there would be no sex.

                    Doesn't matter if the sex was hours after that conversation, and you two ended up in the same bed making out; at one point she said no.

                    This, plus let's say she was drinking. This means you have to as well or that's manipulation. Doesn't matter if you don't drink. Doesn't matter if you're the DD. She was drunk and you weren't.

                    These are the scenarios they're thinking of when they say things like "he took advantage of me". This is what they have in mind when they toss around the term manipulation.

                    Manipulation to them is whatever short term tactic you use to have sex with a woman. Doesn't matter what tactics or uses she has for you. It also pays no attention to the long term manipulations that are possible to either sex. For instance, if I were to get into a relationship on the pretense of being open to marriage, when in reality I know I'm not going that far with her. That's a manipulation that they never complain about happening, even though that's what they should be scared of most.

                    [–]theozoph 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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                    Why does manipulation get such a bad rap? EVERYONE does it, and if you don't, you're the one BEING manipulated, so you better wise the fuck up.

                    It comes down to Gervais' Principle : you can't straighttalk the clueless, they're too invested in their rationalizations, and it's useless to do so with the losers, they're either trying to join you or are convinced you're evil for not being a loser.

                    In the end, lions shouldn't care about the opinions of sheep, that's all.

                    [–]explodingham 21 points22 points  (18 children)

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                    The main issue is not what she loves but why she loves. We live in what I call the Disney Princess era where every western woman has the false idea in their head that they deserve a handsome prince charming without really offering anything in return. I now see women who are 3/10 on looks( 1 or 2 on other guys scales) not wanting to settle for any guy that's less than a 8 or 9. You love what you love I get that but the love they want is not realistic. Western women have got to lower their standards because prince charming is not out there and if even half the women out there would listen and give the average looking guy a chance not only would they do better in the dating world but they may even find something better than prince charming. That something is called a Real Man.

                    [–]Diddlysquatz 20 points21 points  (4 children)

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                    Surely if these ladies were following the true "Disney princess" plan they would aim to be as slim and attractive as possible and not bone anyone until their "prince" comes along. Like a Disney princess. You don't get a handsome prince by slooting it up in bars and piling on pounds. It's like they expect all the rewards without giving anything back. Maybe if they did act a bit more like Snow white a handsome prince might actually be interested.

                    [–]explodingham 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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                    We call that having your cake and eating it too.

                    [–]explodingham 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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                    We call that having your cake and eating it too.

                    [–]TheCastle 4 points5 points  (12 children)

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                    Settling for less isn't necessarily doing better by the way. Also expecting women to all lower their standards is a nirvana fallacy of sorts all of its own.

                    One of the things that gets my attention during these debates is I feel like every guy who seems to use this "She only pays attention to the top 20%" argument as though its some kind unsustainable mentality is that THOSE SAME GUYS would probably be even worse if they one day woke up as an attractive female.

                    Fuck you, if I was a 8-10 female im finding myself a damn alpha. Stop imposing on my might wake up as an attractive female one day rights mother fucker! It the damn American dream!

                    Telling people what they should find attractive is, at its core, giant can of worms you do not want to open.

                    [–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 7 points8 points  (1 child)

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                    Feminists and the fat acceptance movement are trying to tell us that we should find them attractive.

                    You can tell me what you think I should like all day, it won't change what I am attracted to.

                    Same with women, it works better if we make ourselves attractive rather than demand that women start liking fat losers that kiss her ass and supplicate to her. Some might want that so they can control him, but they won't be happy.

                    [–]TheCastle 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                    Self improvement is the only honest choice you have. Everything else is a hollow game or a lie.

                    [–]explodingham 1 point2 points  (8 children)

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                    Well I'm going open the can of worms and show you the reality of things. Females also attribute alphas a being 9 or 10's and not there state of being. All I'm saying is what they find attractive is having too high of standards and what they want is really not a reality. I myself at least have real expectations for the women I want.

                    [–]TheCastle 1 point2 points  (7 children)

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                    Well I'm going open the can of worms and show you the reality of things.

                    The reality of it is that even in a world where we attempt to have equal rights and tolerance when it comes to choosing a mate it is 100% acceptable to be a complete Nazi and NOBODY has a right to tell you otherwise. If you dump a girl because you dont like the shape of her feet that's your business.

                    [–]jjshinobi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                    Well, with more awareness comes more logical reactions, which leads to: self conditioning oneself to be the man one wants to be.

                    [–]we_r_legun1993 16 points17 points  (1 child)

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                    Basically if you weren't born a natural alpha like the top 20%, you should just accept that you are beta bucks and live a lonely miserable depressing life until you die.

                    [–]dancingwithcats 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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                    That's not really true, but there is some truth to it. It's not all about being 'born' alpha. Much of it is upbringing. My father was my role model and while he completely respected my mother he made no bones about who was in charge. He didn't do that in an overbearing or bad way, it was just woven into the fabric of his being. I learned from the best.

                    [–][deleted]  (20 children)

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                      [–]professionalshammer 21 points22 points  (18 children)

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                      He's not saying self improvement is bad. He's saying, don't make THEM the one feeling taken advantage of. Treat your partner like a partner, not a pet you can fuck.

                      [–]deepfriedcocaine 33 points34 points  (5 children)

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                      don't make THEM the one feeling taken advantage of

                      That's the problem. I read comments on his post from women saying, "I dated a TRP guy for 3 years, and it was terrible."

                      I swear I have to question my sanity every time TRP comes up outside of this subreddit. None of these women appear to think that that they're to blame for sexually rewarding guys that they actively admit have been treating them poorly—for years. When I was BP, I guarantee you guys that I wouldn't have subscribed to TRP if women had reacted positively when I treated them nicely. Fuck, TRP probably wouldn't exist if that were the case.

                      If women want /r/TheRedPill to change, they have to take some personal responsibility and stop perpetuating it.

                      [–]8n0n 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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                      they have to take some personal responsibility

                      I'd have better odds winning lotto than that happening within the next millennium.

                      [–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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                      They want to be a pet I can fuck, if I treat them as equal partners, they don't want to fuck me anymore.

                      [–]Humankeg 16 points17 points  (2 children)

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                      There is nothing wrong with treating your equal partner as a sexual object that you lust after. This turns on the women I date.

                      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                        [–]Thzae 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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                        A LOT of girls have rape fantasies and like rough sex. And there's no shortage of them out there riding the carousel.

                        [–]jmottram08 0 points1 point  (7 children)

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                        Treat your partner like a partner, not a pet you can fuck.

                        Most women don't do this, so why should men?

                        Either you can cry about how life is unfair and how everyone should just be honest for the rest of your life... or you can play the game and get laid.

                        Its really an either/or.

                        Yes, decent women are out there. They really are. But they are a minority, and men want to get laid tonight.

                        That's just the life that modern culture has shaped. Sorry if you don't like it.

                        [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (6 children)

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                        You get what you give. Don't treat your girlfriend like a ONS, and don't treat your ONS like a girlfriend.

                        [–]BrothaTom 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                        I Agree. Things are often synthetic before it starts to feel natural.

                        If people want to be natural so damn bad, get off the the supermarket and go pick fruits of wild trees and roast wild squirrels. The agricultural revolution was done entirely on manipulation. Don't argue about how food is a "separate" category just because you don't have a solid idea on the causes and effect of an evolution.

                        [–]tedted8888 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                        this is the male version of telling fat chicks to not lose weight because guys will love them for them.

                        Or running a business with out a plan. This is just social marxism rehash. People are rich because they planed shit out. No one is a millionaire because they were "lucky", except for a few small people who inherited it. Everything is a system. Try treating your life like a business for once. Fire all thouse self limiting belifes and higher empowering ones. Or just bitch about how much of a loser/failure you are. I dont care.

                        [–]DarkCircle 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                        Manipulation is bad when it is done with the intent of harming, tricking, deceiving etc the subject. Apart from that there is nothing wrong with it. We are manipulated and manipulate from the time we wake up till the time we sleep.

                        [–]Bronotrelevant[🍰] 14 points15 points  (6 children)

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                        Isn't his way of thinking a form of manipulation?

                        [–][deleted]  (4 children)

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                          [–]Bronotrelevant[🍰] 24 points25 points  (3 children)

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                          This word has been thrown around so much today it lost its meaning for the rest of the day.

                          [–]rpkarma 11 points12 points  (2 children)

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                          You're manipulating me with that comment.

                          [–]Lemmetellusumthin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                          And now I'm manipulating your manipulator.

                          [–]UnimpressedAsshole 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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                          Well said. A major issue is that people believe in unconditional love and that is something embodied by virtually nobody. For nearly everyone, love is extremely conditional. Recognizing the conditions that females, on a primal level, require for love and posturing to either meet or portray those conditions is a game we all play.

                          Being sadistic and cruel is not synonymous with TRP and while it certainly can be found in this subreddit, honestly, it's probably more prevalent in the feminist community.

                          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                              [–]lillojohn 111 points112 points  (4 children)

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                              True love is loving yourself and bettering your self to the max. Only when you achieve that love for yourself you can understand the value and see the value of another being.

                              [–]heisamanster 13 points14 points  (0 children)

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                              "To love oneself is the beginning of a lifelong romance" -Oscar Wilde

                              [–]TogiBear 40 points41 points  (0 children)

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                              "True love exists, but only with yourself."

                              I like it.

                              [–]Lemmetellusumthin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                              Gonna call Rosie about this one

                              [–]GargleSnatch 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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                              I really, really fucking like this.

                              [–]FleetingWish 9 points10 points  (4 children)

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                              I couldn't help noticing that his entire post leaves no room for RPW to exist. If TRP are horrible manipulators because they learn "tricks" to make women like them, doesn't RPW do the same thing from a woman's perspective? So, if a TRP guy and RPW both get into a relationship (which is the ideal scenario for many people from both groups), who is the manipulator, and who is the victim?

                              [–]codeverity 1 point2 points  (2 children)

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                              I actually don't have much problem with RPW (except for some of the nastiness that I see directed at women who don't follow the philosophy). I don't see a lot of manipulation going on over there, in fact it truly seems more focused on self-improvement than TRP is. At it's best I think TRP can be a partnership between a man who wants to take charge and lead and be the best man he can be, and a woman who looks for that in a man and just identifies more strongly with traditional gender roles, doesn't want to play emotional games, etc. I know that RPW don't have the best view of feminists but imo, if that's what women want to choose, all the more power to them as long as they're being treated well.

                              The thing is, a lot of the posts and comments here on TRP seem outright misogynistic and hostile - there's an imgur album floating around that depicts it very well - veering into outright hatred of women, viewing them as inferior, etc. Those are the posts that he's criticizing because it's very difficult to read any post here and not encounter those viewpoints.

                              [–]2Occams_Shiv 14 points15 points  (0 children)

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                              RPW is what the TRP should be. All self improvement. No complaining. They are truly our better half. Those bitches lead by example and set the bar high. They tolerate zero complaining about men, not because men are so great, but because complaining is for the weak and the lazy.

                              That said, so much of mainstream culture venerates and pedestalizes women for doing little or nothing, that TRP is a bit like the overpressure valve for the blowback. So it's messier here.

                              To be honest, the worst most misogynistic things I've ever read here pale in comparison to what gets said in any men's locker room, anywhere. This is who we are. We have accepted that we are the disposable sex, but we will not speak in sanitized platitudes and euphamisms to avoid offending the people who benefit most from our work.

                              [–]tedcase 119 points120 points  (35 children)

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                              Ive seen so many Anti red pill posts, I cant count them all. I dont bother replying. I dont care what other people think about TRP. In fact, I would prefer it if most people think it's bullshit. Life is a competition, if people want to reject the truth, then fine, go nuts. go back to your dull pathetic life loooking for "the one" and white knighting your way to true love. I dont care!

                              TRP works for ME. It makes sense to ME and it makes MY life better. That is all I care about. Believe what you want.

                              [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

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                              "Mr. Roark, we’re alone here. Why don’t you tell me what you think of me? In any words you wish. No one will hear us."

                              "But I don’t think of you."

                              (The Fountainhead)

                              [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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                                [–]dreckmal 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                                Life is a competition

                                Absolutely. And the more people continue to buy the bullshit, the easier it will be for us to get what we want.

                                [–]the99percent1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                                From the bottom of my sincere heart, I don't give a FUCK.

                                [–]ImFromHereDamnit 2 points3 points  (7 children)

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                                I dont care what other people think about TRP. In fact, I would prefer it if most people think it's bullshit. Life is a competition...

                                EXACTLY. How can we stand out as alpha if every beta started to act like us? The competition for single women would be super intense. TRP is my little secret that I almost prefer nobody knows about. Sure my wife knows, but our relationship has never been better and all her friends are jealous of her awesome husband, so she is rather in favor of TRP.

                                [–]Mr_Andry 9 points10 points  (5 children)

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                                You are living in a scarcity mentality. The world becomes a better place when you realize there is plenty to go around. If all men were red pill then more men and women would be happier with life, and there would be less resistance to sexual freedom. It's win/win.

                                [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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                                  [–]McRedMan 10 points11 points  (2 children)

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                                  People think they have the right to not be offended. TRP opposes their ideal of "Nice Guys", therefore they take offense, therefore:

                                  Blah blah blah misogyny blah blah blah dark triad blah blah blah emotional manipulation blah blah blah RAPE! blah blah... etc.

                                  [–]TaylorWolf 5 points6 points  (1 child)

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                                  Once again, fear is the enemy of truth.

                                  The men are afraid that everything they have "worked for" (worked at being nice guy) is all in vain. They just can't allow that to be their reality. (Yet... lol)

                                  The women are afraid that all the men will choose someone younger and hotter if they have options.

                                  [–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                                  The women are afraid that all the men will choose someone younger and hotter if they have options

                                  Damn right I will, and have. I realized both my wives made it easy for me, they left at 28 and 30, giving me the years of their lives where they looked the best. Eight with the first, nine with the second, and now I am sticking to the early 20s girls... Old women can have the losers and chumps.

                                  [–]Mr_Andry 50 points51 points  (18 children)

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                                  The worst thing about his post is that he thinks Red Pill is purely Dark Triad.

                                  He then spouts off about how what you really should do is "work on improving yourself" as if that's not what TRP is all about...

                                  Really frustrating.

                                  [–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 2 points3 points  (4 children)

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                                  Nothing wrong with us DT types, we still need to fit society, which means we can usually tone it down enough not to get killed.

                                  [–]Phaint 11 points12 points  (6 children)

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                                  The thing I like the most about the red pill is that I can come here and see a truly rational discussion about any topic. The circle jerking is at a minimum. If someone disagrees with the admins post he gets called out in a rational manner.

                                  Many of these other subreddits that happen to be obsessed with this one just bandwagon, grandstand and circle jerk like I've never seen it happen before. Their fantasy world is far from their most irritating behavior.

                                  [–]RedditUsersAreLosers 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                                  If you think that circle jerking is bad, you should go visit http://www.somethingawful.com

                                  [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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                                  [deleted]

                                    [–]silly_bird 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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                                    It's like they've never even bothered to visit and understand the sub before going on a rant.

                                    [–]17 Endorsed ContributorJP_Whoregan 167 points168 points  (24 children)

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                                    The whole damn post is based on a FALSE PREMISE: He's trying to talk about RP solely within the context of Loving Relationships. The problem is, feminism and pop culture are teaching today's women that they should NOT enter into loving/long term/committed relationships until well into their 30's, well after they have passed their sexual prime. This guy is trying to shame men from using "the sexual strategy game" to their advantage, while simultaneously ignoring the fact that it was feminism and the sexual revolution that feminism spawned that created this game in the first place.

                                    RED PILL MEN aren't doing anything but adapting rationally to a feminized sexual marketplace that is increasingly irrational. If women acted like women, and men acted like men, we wouldn't need a "red pill". That's what this idiot fails to understand.

                                    [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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                                    [deleted]

                                      [–]2lightfire409 15 points16 points  (3 children)

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                                      Well put. He also seems to fail to understand that a man having the power in a relationship != emotionally abusive relationship. Implying using TRP will make you emotionally abusive is a large part of his argument. People are so afraid of power its crazy.

                                      [–]Humankeg 1 point2 points  (2 children)

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                                      I posted a meh post there, but one of the things I asked was why it was wrong for a man to treat a woman like a child and make all the decisions if she seems happier about it? I see lots of complaints about treating women as children, but it's really about them being indecisive, the man taking charge, and both parties having a good time.

                                      [–]2lightfire409 4 points5 points  (1 child)

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                                      Its really annoying when the counterpoint is simply "that's so offensive". That's not debunking anythjng . stop arguing with feelings.

                                      Relationships go so much smoother when you take command and ignore the tempure tandrems.

                                      [–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                                      Women only use feelings, any logic utilized by them is in an effort to justify the position they claim that is based on feelings.

                                      [–]EducatedCavemen 42 points43 points  (1 child)

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                                      That whole fucking post was like something that came out of Nicholas Sparks' ass.

                                      [–]1PaulRivers10 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                                      Nicholas Sparks is a friekin' genuis. Have you seen his movies? It's like a non-stop parade of Game and Red Pill behavior. At the start of The Notebook, the guy runs into the girl when she's on a date with another guy, blatantly hits on her in front of him (to the point of treating him like he doesn't exist), climbs the ferris wheel like a psychopath and won't stop harrassing (I mean...uh, pursusing, because she likes it I guess?) her until she agrees to go on a date with him.

                                      Even the sappy romantic schtuff is red pill if you read between the lines - it's not a coincidence that he supposedly wrote her one letter for 365 days of the year until finally giving up - but she never received them until way way after the fact. It's total dread game, with her discovering them giving her the hamstering ability to tell herself it's cool for her to fall for him.

                                      It's bullshit that nicholas spark movies end with "happily ever after", but the entirety of his movies up to that point are spot on point with Game.

                                      [–]satisfyinghump 19 points20 points  (6 children)

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                                      well, if men are the only one's playing by the rules, then it'll be easier for the women to get ahead.

                                      i've always thought things like that post are written by men who are so lost and dissapointed on the inside from years of being "best friend forever" with girls, that they've started to become disillusioned

                                      [–]cray-cray-cray 9 points10 points  (5 children)

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                                      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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                                      [deleted]

                                        [–]EducatedCavemen 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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                                        "Dude, that's bullshit. She is out of my league I could never get a girl like her. Excuse me while I go fuck this fat, ugly chick with 5 kids from different dudes because I can't any better because i'm a fucking dumbshit and hopefully she lets me put my tip in for a quick sec. #TruLuv."

                                        [–]isthatyourdaughter 11 points12 points  (0 children)

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                                        "She's not fat or ugly, bro! She's smart and drop-dead gorgeous haha looser!"

                                        "Um, cool, can I see a pic?"

                                        looks at BPers GF

                                        GF is a hard 6

                                        Photo is blurry, badly lit, GF wearing makeup

                                        [–][deleted] 25 points26 points  (0 children)

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                                        I've put in a lot of thought about love and true love over the past few years; it's a bitter thought but I've never met a woman that has treated another man the way a man who has fallen in a real, heart aching, gut pounding, every time I look at her face my heart goes into a cage match with my diaphragm, love.

                                        I've known that feeling, I've heard women make those confessions of love but the actions that come shortly after prove the words were lies, I've seen men lie about it too but I've known other men who have been in that sort of love that makes you want to jump off a cliff when it's gone and even years after it's over your heart pounds at the sight of her or even just hearing her name.

                                        In 22 short years on this earth I've never once met a woman that has felt that way about anybody else, I've loved women, I've known it for them, I've heard them say the words and lied to myself about the nature of their reciprocation.

                                        To them love is not what it is to us and knowing that makes it impossible for me to love a girl like I had before.

                                        For a woman to feel that love towards a man he has to be the total package, he has to be good looking, socially presentable as the best man in every room, lavishly wealthy, a level of fame must be present and he must have power, along with continual game and make the appearance of having options but choosing her above them. You have to be and stay a prince or a king until your final breath to keep that sort of love from a woman but for a man to love a woman all she needs to do is be pretty to him, kind and caring.

                                        As much as I want the love I have known it's hard to pursue a lie from a dishonest person and call that gratification, The guy is right TRP will kill a part of you, but it's only making clear that what you thought was reciprocal love was really some transaction that often times means very little to the other person.

                                        This is why so many of us are bitter and some even lash out and it's also why so many hate us, the men don't want true happiness to be a lie and the girls are reacting subconsciously to defend the value that they lose from having the light shown on this convenient fallacy, some may even believe it themselves, very few actually have some orchestration with this miscommunication in mind.

                                        [–]TheWSTensai 51 points52 points  (6 children)

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                                        I don't know why people are taking this seriously. I spent 5 minutes reviewing his post history and it made me want to gag. I'm not a fan of ad hominem but, if this guy is making other TRPers feel confused about their fondness of the sub, and their commitment to improve themselves, then fuck this guy.

                                        These are my condensed findings:

                                        1. He has a beer gut that he's had for a while. Which indicates a lack of effort to improve himself / to engage in physical fitness.

                                        2. He spends an immense time on reddit. Honestly, just seeing his post history over the last three months is enough. I don't want to imagine how much he lurks.

                                        3. He is very much into roleplay and gaming. I used to be a gamer, I believe that there is nothing inherently wrong with either. However, it seems like both roleplay/gaming consume a lot, if not most of his time. The amount of loooong posts he had on r/rpg blew me away (seems like a lot of his confidence comes from his D&D mates telling him how funny he is).

                                        4. Is married and believes he has "the one"....It'll be interesting to see how it works out. My bets are on that he is posting on r/relationships within a few years.

                                        5. Is quite religious and in a bad way (I am one of those people who believe blindly subscribing to a religion is ultimately BP. If you don't agree with that position, ignore this point. To each their own). He had a post on CMV asking people to convince him that homosexuality is not a sin. He wasted hours arguing his PoV.

                                        6. Enjoys creating arguments with people online (seems online exclusive). He'd much rather spend hours on hours arguing with anons than improving himself. Which is funny considering one of the points he makes is that we should try to keep improving ourselves.

                                        He is the antithesis of RP.

                                        He is actually very similar to one of my friends who tried TRP but ended up failing and reverted back to his old self. He became jaded and hamstered that his inability to be RP because TRP is ineffective and immoral.

                                        He states that being Alpha is for dogs, and that you don't need to be Alpha. What he means is: "I couldn't become Alpha, being Alpha is stupid, you don't need to be that, just be yourself."

                                        Sounds quite familiar...

                                        Youdon'tneedtoworkout, workingoutispointless, beingfatisawesome, youarearealwoman, justbeyourself!

                                        Bottom line is: People who couldn't put in the effort thus they bash the result, aren't worth listening to.

                                        [–]SecondBrownies 12 points13 points  (0 children)

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                                        Great post; your researching and analyzing of his character helped me understand how someone could misinterpret TRP in such a surprisingly inaccurate way. (I was baffled before that, despite it being a common thing on reddit.)

                                        [–]Xiamon 5 points6 points  (1 child)

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                                        He'd much rather spend hours on hours arguing with anons than improving himself.

                                        To be fair, I actually find this to be a good mental exercise that helps improve one's debating abilities or on the off chance that I'm wrong, corrects my knowledge deficiencies. Of course, as with all things, moderation.

                                        [–]Thzae 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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                                        I've overdone it myself in the past and after a while it's less of a good mental exercise and more of a massive waste of time.

                                        As you said, moderation.

                                        [–]SkiptomyLoomis 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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                                        Your number two and number six strike me as particularly ironic considering they appear within a six-point treatise on a Reddit user you've never met.

                                        [–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                                        You can get an idea about people by what they say, how they say it, especially with anonymity. Reading his body language isn't necessary when his written language spells it out.

                                        [–]1Zanford 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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                                        The "true love" meme is itself manipulation. Humans telling others not to try harder to win the race.

                                        Women love the idea that it "just happens" b/c

                                        1. They don't want to have to do work themsevles, or admit that they do it (push up bras etc.)
                                        2. They abhor the idea guys do it, b/c it subverts their prime directive to get the genetically best sperm. IOW they want guys to be all 'nature' no 'nurture'.

                                        Most men also like it b/c of laziness, hope, and crab-in-a-bucket mentality.

                                        If you want true love, you need Game / TRP more than ever, b/c it takes a lot of work to attract a love-worthy woman, and to keep the relationship in the right frame. My post-TRP relationships are closer to "true love" - as I'm happier, and so are the chicks.

                                        [–]greycloud24 29 points30 points  (9 children)

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                                        here is a fucked up truth that nobody likes to mention. true love is temporary. people change over time. you aren't the same person you were 5 years ago, you aren't the same person you were 1 year ago, you aren't the same person you were yesterday, and once you have finished reading this post and taking in new information you won't ever be the same again.

                                        and get this. women aren't static either. they aren't the same person they were 5 years ago, 1 year ago, or yesterday. everyone is constantly growing and changing at a very slow pace that is hardly noticeable at all.

                                        people don't necessarily grow together. that is doubly true in the modern world where you being on a phone on some app, and her being on a phone on some app can get you to grow in wildly different directions. you can start with true love, but eventually you will grow apart. it takes effort to try and grow together, effort from both sides.

                                        true love is a temporary thing. you can have it for a little while, but in time it will fade away. in time you will both die. nothing lasts forever, not even true love.

                                        you can spend your whole life trying to get it, or you can find someone who you do not have true love, and you can put in the effort to grow together, and if you are lucky for a little while it will be true love.

                                        [–]icroak 8 points9 points  (2 children)

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                                        How did you discover this "truth". Is it not possible that you simply have not experienced it? Many people have different definitions of what love means and have different ways of expressing it. It seems a bit arrogant to claim you know all of these acts of love don't exist.

                                        [–]greycloud24 7 points8 points  (1 child)

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                                        because i know how the human mind works. it is simply not humanly possible to maintain a single type of love throughout time. even parents stop loving their children for brief periods of time, even though they won't admit it. it is because of something called "the happiness treadmill", and the way that humans experience the world.

                                        [–]hungoverseal 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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                                        Great post. See to me this is what the guy was misunderstanding. He was framing the advice as manipulative, abusive, one-up man ship. To me Redpill is understanding that love can be temporary, it's something you need to work at. You have to date lot's of women, high quality women to find one you can love. And then it's your responsibility to keep developing yourself, and keep her attracted to you. Everything in this world is manipulation. What matters is whether you are offering value and doing something that is good for them. And also that they have the ability to opt out

                                        [–]Overkillengine 12 points13 points  (2 children)

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                                        "And when someone accuses you of being selfish, just remember that he’s only upset because you aren’t doing what he selfishly wants you to do.”

                                        You can either hate the competition like a bluepill does; or you can improve yourself so much that there is no longer a competition.

                                        [–]silly_bird 10 points11 points  (1 child)

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                                        "And when someone accuses you of being selfish, just remember that he’s only upset because you aren’t doing what he selfishly wants you to do.”

                                        Does being upset include writing an essay on an Internet forum about dating strategy?

                                        [–]Overkillengine 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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                                        For the EMSK person, quite possibly. Red pill strategy is arguably more effective than bluepill strategy at both achieving personal goals and avoiding/mitigating the pitfalls of modern society, so it is not much a logical leap to deduce that this person sees that they might get out competed and as such tries to warn people away.

                                        Edit: and then there is also the hilarious layer of hypocrisy they uttered about TRP techniques being manipulation. Um. duh, every interaction is manipulation when you think about it. The only difference is A) effectiveness and B) is it harmful to the target?

                                        Being fit and fun is effective. Acting in a supplicating manner is not.

                                        If you manipulate women by improving yourself so that you are someone they actually want, how is that harmful to them?

                                        The hypocrisy of those that criticize that approach is that doing otherwise infers that one thinks women are without agency. Red pill just recognizes that a lot of women will use their agency poorly; and as such men should proceed with informed caution.

                                        [–]whatcanredditdo 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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                                        Never been to that sub. I knew everything on the front page. Guess I'm a man.

                                        [–]full_package 7 points8 points  (2 children)

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                                        Red pill is not about lack of empathy. Among other things, it's about not having more empathy in relationship than your SO. Overcommitment causes pedestalling.

                                        [–]rebuildingMyself 3 points4 points  (1 child)

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                                        It's about men empathizing with themselves for a damn change instead of everyone else. What do MEN want? What do YOU want? Well we want it too so here's how to get it amd it's not easy.

                                        Even women love men with a passion for somethiy other than kissing female ass for reward sex. But when men dare talk about it it's like you're denying the Holocaust.

                                        [–]bluemyselfearly19 7 points8 points  (1 child)

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                                        I've posted this comment before, but it bares repeating. Maybe I'm just saying this because I'm long over my bitterness phase, but white-knights like this guy are the worst. Him and the Chris Gethards the world who are spewing this 'women are unique snowflakes' and 'don't try to improve your lot' nonsense are much more destructive than radical feminism, or the left's gynocentrism. They disgust me more on a visceral level than anything these days.

                                        I've been keen to game for almost 5 years. This stuff has done more to turn around my life than any 'mangina' or 'white knight be yourself' garbage has ever had. Fuck these BP hypocrites, FFS.

                                        [–]Alphadestrious 3 points4 points  (2 children)

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                                        The OP's argument from the original thread about 'nobody needs to be abused' is like a strawman argument. Who the fuck says we are ABUSING these women? In addition, where is men's rights? All you ever hear about is feminism. As a matter of fact I just saw a video feminists made about "doing things like a girl" as if it was an insult. WTF?

                                        [–]rebuildingMyself 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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                                        I've done some things to my girlfriend that I would never have done back on my bluepilled days.

                                        Stood up to her bitching, told her to stop being a bitch when she was belittling me, told her "then we're done" when she threw some stupid emotional ultimatum in my face, told her to stop nagging, stared her down many times. Not once did I yell.

                                        And you know what's happened? She apologized amd initiates sex every time. Even asking her why she wanted sex she can't give an answer(it just happened). She constantly says how she usually gets bored with men she dates but doesn't with me. She loves me standing up to her (she said this randomly without me asking).

                                        I guarantee that her ex's were kissing her ass constantly amd surrendering every fight before it even started. You ever play a game on easy mode over and over? Yeah it'd get boring after a while too.

                                        [–]Endorsed ContributorDenswend 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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                                        Emotional abuse is the new misogyny. I think I'm going to preemptively copyright "spiritual abuse". It's when your SO wants to go on a soul searching trip (in Crowley's orgies and riding the cock carousel) but you say you will cut all romantic ties with her. Naturally, you are abusing her restrained feminist soul by leaving her.

                                        [–]ExpendableOne 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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                                        His entire argument could be summed up to "Nobody deserves that kind of abuse, including women". While I completely agree with that message, it's not like anyone is actually is doing anything about men who are abused this way either. There isn't exactly an outpour of men and women out there looking to make things right and stand up for men. Other than the men's human rights movement, there really is nothing. Feminists, if anything, have gone pretty far out of their way to shut down, insult and attack men who do speak up about that kind of abuse from women, all the while defending the misdeeds, entitlements and misandric attitudes of women towards men they deem to be disposable or inadequate.

                                        When men are taken advantage of or have their weaknesses exploited, people(women especially) either don't give a shit or just ridicule/belittle them for being victims. When women express satisfaction and glee over treating men this way, no one actually reprimands or penalizes them for it. When men try to speak up about their experiences, they are branded "nice guy tm", neckbeards, losers, virgin shamed or women haters.

                                        So, what else is there? how else would your average men be expected to handle it? Bend over and take it for the rest of their lives, continuously dreaming of and longing for the love that will never be given to them? Kill themselves? Learn to be just be happy with a sexless and loveless life? Those aren't very good solutions, and it's not like any one man can change the way women, or the world, thinks overnight(or in their lifetime) either. Most women don't want to change the way they act or feel about men, fewer still even understand or care about how their behavior can be harmful/destructive to men(and, in some ways, to themselves). How could you not expect this kind of response from men when these are really the only workable alternatives that are given to them?

                                        [–]TheRedditNub 9 points10 points  (0 children)

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                                        Shouldn't makeup be considered manipulation by these standards? Or clothes? Or just about any thing that makes you more attractive than you actually are natturally? And by that standard baths and deodorant also manipulation?

                                        [–]Ymeynotu 8 points9 points  (0 children)

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                                        Honestly the OP in the EMSK thread literally misses the point of /TheRedPill entirely.

                                        I kept wondering as I was reading it if both of us were actually reading the same posts.

                                        People take what they want I guess.

                                        [–]Space_Ninja 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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                                        EMSK that you'll get shit advice from people who barely identify as male in /r/everymanshouldknow

                                        [–]2lightfire409 10 points11 points  (2 children)

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                                        A huge point of his argument was TRP is all about emotional abusive relationships. Which is completely untrue. TRP is about the man having the power in a relationship, and installing a captain/first mate dynamic.

                                        SOme people are so fucking afraid of power its rediculous. They look at us saying "The man should have the power" and all they can imaging is someone using that power for evil. Narrow minded fool.

                                        [–]2Occams_Shiv 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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                                        To be more precise, the man must exercise the power. Feminism's central error, the thing no woman, and most men fail to understand, is that in physics and in all human interaction; Power isn't held. It is made.

                                        Men don't have power. They make power, for good or ill.

                                        edit:spelling

                                        [–]2asd1100 24 points25 points  (3 children)

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                                        True, enduring love is amazing

                                        I heard god and santa claus are prety cool to.

                                        In this age, do we really need to use abiguities to describe such a important aspect of our life.

                                        We gave up santa claus when we where kids, we renounced god when we realised adults are still scared and confused children.

                                        Let's stop this bullshit about love, it is a chemical sofware, that is pre programed in you to not jump from woman to woman and spread the whealth if I may. However women do not have the same programing, they need the whealth of the best posible father for their kids.

                                        We do not love the same and in this day and age using the word "love" for anything other than bullshiting your way into some laced panties is beneth you both as an adult and especially as a red piller.

                                        I means nothing, everything and whatever you want all at the same time, it has no place in a argument.

                                        [–]ImFromHereDamnit 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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                                        Yup yup, women and men most certainly do not love identically. Love is a mechanism to insure continuation of the species, plain and simple. Love feels good and is critical to a happy life IMHO. Men and women enter a relationship with different needs and overall goals. Anyone who thinks love is identical for men or women, or even that love is identical for 2 genetically identical twins, doesn't understand love nor the human condition.

                                        [–]1whatsazipper 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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                                        If you think "true love" exists, then breach some of the conditions that were part of the formation of your "true love" relationship. Lose your job and face a rough job market for your field that lowers your standard of living; get a chronic illness; get disabled or injured; get fat; lose your muscle; basically, anything that would be a huge hit to your attractiveness and confidence.

                                        "True love" implies that love would last in spite of those circumstances, but we're not delusional here. There are conditions to the love a woman has for a man, and if you violate them, she loses respect for you and looks to swing branches. All bets are off and that's when you see a darker, yet more pragmatic, side of women.

                                        [–]charlesbukowksi 23 points24 points  (0 children)

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                                        Love, as described by the EMSK, is illusory. There is no such thing. It is a comfortable idea promulgated by those who fantasize about it - because they're afraid to accept reality. At best you could argue love is the instinctual bond between parent and child (although not the reverse). But to expect another person to love you like they love themselves (or by extension their children) is ridiculous and farcical not to mention against our natural instincts.

                                        We are animals. Animals don't love. Animals survive.

                                        Edit: Amusingly but perhaps not surprisingly the collective cognitive dissonance of reddit has awarded OP with 25+ golds. There's a parallel with religion here somewhere.

                                        [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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                                        [deleted]

                                          [–]themasterof 5 points6 points  (2 children)

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                                          Anger is a completely natural human feeling, not something you should ignore, discard or suppress. Use it. Learn to direct the energy within anger into lifting heavier, running the extra mile and improving yourself.

                                          [–]TogiBear 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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                                          I think you meant the anger has to run its course. It's the second of the five stages of grieving.

                                          [–]scarfox1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                                          Another fallacy is that he argues under the assumption that monogamy is the default natural human state. He also thinks red pill wants women to suffer, but I think red pill just wants equality... also he has a disney belief in love and a white knight mentality? I'm sure his definitions of RP weren't accurate either.

                                          [–]noblepaladin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                                          A consequence of having a self improvement forum is that you will end up with over-representation at the fat tails. For example, if you take a weight loss program, you will have a ton of fat people in it, including many in the extremely obese 300+ pound category, and a ton of former fatties that got fit. It is a false conclusion to say that weight loss programs make people fat because there is an over-representation of 300+ pound people. The same is true if you go to the personal finance subreddit. You will see a ton of posts about being in $80k+ of credit card debt. It is inaccurate to conclude that they advise people to go into a mountain of debt. You get those extremes because those are the type of people who end up seeking help. If you look on the investing subreddit, you will see that half of the posts are made by complete newbies who have less than $5000 in networth and they say stuff that is mostly wrong. That doesn't mean that investing is a bad thing.

                                          There should be no surprise that there is a severe over-representation of omega males in TRP. There is probably a greater percentage of awkward virgins on this forum than most others. And many of them will say ridiculous things because they don't know any better. That doesn't mean that the ideology is wrong. It's really some basic stuff. Statistically speaking, guys who are fit have more success with women. Guys who have status and money have more success with women. Actually, it is not just women, but they do better in almost everything in life. Therefore get fit, earn money, earn status. If you know this and you don't do it, you only have yourself to blame.

                                          [–]rebuildingMyself 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                                          EMSK that even r/EMSK is littered with feminist bullshit. While it has some good posts about skills and whatnot (the point of the sub), feministas still couldn't resist hijacking it and trying to keep men "in line."

                                          [–]Doomsday_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                                          There are two ways to guarantee a healthy relationship. By healthy, I mean the girl is in love with you and there is no threat of her leaving; you have all the leverage you need to assure yourself peace of mind and a steady sexual outlet.

                                          Meet your soulmate

                                          If you are extremely lucky enough to cross paths with your soulmate this is the easiest way to live the kind of romantic bliss that Hollywood movies exalt. A soulmate connection is the Golden Ticket to happiness and a dreamlike existence. But it is rare. Don’t live as if it will happen to you. I estimate 1% of all men and 2% of all women meet their soulmates. The reason for the discrepancy is that male soulmates are in shorter supply than female soulmates. Male soulmates are shared amongst the women like a community hookah.

                                          Instill dread

                                          Women respond viscerally in their vagina area to unpredictability, mixed signals, danger, and drama in spite of their best efforts to convince themselves otherwise. Managing your relationship in such a way that she is left with a constant, gnawing feeling of impending doom will do more for your cause than all the Valentine’s Day cards and expertly performed tongue love in the world.

                                          http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/dread/

                                          [–]1sailorJery 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                                          For every 1 red pill man there's 10 'empowered women in touch with her sexuality' who will abuse you in ways you didn't know you could be abused.

                                          [–]waynebradysworld 6 points7 points  (3 children)

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                                          Read my well thought out posts on that thread and see all the downvotes they are getting. Truly pathetic! Here's an example:

                                          Bozo claims that he doesn't believe in the existence of "alpha" (whatever that claim means?)

                                          Me - Use whatever term of the day you want. The idea remains the same.

                                          There is a social totem pole. People at the top of that totem pole often share common traits. People at the bottom of that totem pole often share common traits. These traits, both physical and behavioral, can be observed and analyzed.

                                          Confirm or deny

                                          Well the response I got was 0 answers and 8 downvotes. Classic!

                                          [–]RedditUsersAreLosers 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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                                          You seriously shouldn't seek validation from us about your post nor especially from them.

                                          None the less, just for your satisfaction: Yes you had a very valid point.

                                          [–]Average_Black_Man 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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                                          Don't bother replyingto them, you are wasting your time. Who gives a shit what a bunch of betas/women on Reddit think?

                                          [–]dancingwithcats 15 points16 points  (3 children)

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                                          I'll get downvoted to the basement for this but there are a few grains of truth there. TRP should be about how to improve yourself as a man. More and more I see posts that really are just about how to manipulate women. In my mind that misses the point. If you improve yourself and be the best man you can be you don't have to play any games or use any manipulations. The women will just be there and will be eager to be with you.

                                          This subreddit has in many ways become a big circle jerk much of the time. Yes, I know. Downvote away. I don't care about imaginary Internet points. It's the truth. TRP is built on some very sound philosophies. Unfortunately more and more it seems that it's degenerating into a cheap 'how to pick up girls' game. That entirely misses the point of what it means to be a man. If you're a real man you won't have to worry about games and silly manipulations.

                                          EDIT: Grammatical correction.

                                          [–]1 Endorsed Contributorjsl2837 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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                                          From the Introduction in the sidebar:

                                          Men, our happiness is our responsibility. Culture has always shifted, it's dynamic and fluid. It has never and will never stay still.

                                          Feminism was inevitable. Equal rights are something I strongly am in support of. For men and women.

                                          Women have the right to pursue happiness. Nobody should tell them otherwise. Maximizing happiness is the goal of every living creature on this planet.

                                          Men, we need to recognize that since women are rightfully seeking out happiness, evolutionary psychology is more relevant today than ever in the past century. (and possibly longer). We no longer run the show. And I, for one, don't disagree that marriage had to change if we were to see equal rights.

                                          But now it's time to get serious and realize that our strategy needs to change. Feminism is a sexual strategy. It puts women into the best position they can find, to select mates, to determine when they want to switch mates, to locate the best dna possible, and to garner the most resources they can individually achieve.

                                          The Red Pill is men's sexual strategy. Reality is happening, and we need to make sure that we adjust our strategy accordingly.

                                          ...

                                          Game is an important portion of a sexual strategy. A lot of you probably came here from /r/seduction and are probably wondering why we'd need a new subreddit if one dedicated to game already exists. The reason is simple: Game is a facet of The Red Pill's sexual strategy. Determining good game is impossible to do without first understanding the context given by The Red Pill's framework. Something I keep seeing over on the seduction subreddit is a problem taking over most relationship and sex forums: the desire to feminize the discussion (basically making it sound politically correct if read by a female).

                                          Yes, game got a bad reputation from girls who demonize manipulation. This is because game is an effective strategy against their own sexual strategy. I believe women's opposition to game can be attributed to the unconscious factors in women's sexual strategy (Please do read Schedules of Mating).

                                          This is the most important part, and a very salient prediction made in the very beginning when this sub was created in late 2012:

                                          When women started becoming vocal about their opposition to game, that's when men decided it would be necessary to make game more politically correct. "Oh, we're not here to manipulate women to have sex with us- we're here to become better men!"

                                          And thus, the female imperative took over game. When men think they must define their own sexual strategy in a way that best delivers results to the female sexual strategy, you know your own strategy will suffer! In a game of chess, do I politely not take out the oppositions' queen in hopes not to offend or win the game?

                                          And so as we can see, /u/pk_atheist's eerily prescient prediction has become reality.

                                          TRP is not a self-improvement sub per se. Many do not grasp this nuance. The essence of this sub is in recognizing how women's sexual strategies are, to a considerable degree, antagonistic towards men's (even as women's sexual capital is beneficial and complementary to men's), regardless of how successful or 'self-improved' a man becomes.

                                          What you mentioned, about bettering ourselves to the extent that only minimal game is required to keep a woman loyal, is merely one out of a kaleidoscope of life paths we can choose based on that knowledge of sexual strategy and evolutionary psychology. And only an extreme minority will attain the degree of preselection and sexual market value to pull that off with multiple women without committing to any one of them.

                                          Even though your comment wasn't specifically talking about monogamy, nonetheless the only time a woman is loyal AND does not need to be gamed is when she is springing the LTR/marriage trap on a potential provider. Alphas always game their women, whether consciously or not, and whether they're monogamous or not. Plate-spinning inherently requires lots of game to keep each plate from leaving, and most plates typically spin for just a few months.

                                          It is a mistake to think that if we are attractive enough, we don't have to game our woman much if at all (not true outside of committed monogamy), and - crucially - therefore this should be the endgame objective for most of us. This is a biased value judgement. There are men who choose to only spin plates and never settle down, and their sexual strategy earns them a higher sexual rank compared to more conservative men, despite the fact that it takes more work - more manipulation.

                                          The main reason why monogamous relationships, even redpill ones, are more palatable to the mainstream than plate-spinning, is that monogamy conforms most closely to women's needs - specifically, the need to find a post-Wall provider. The less mating options a man has, the easier it is for a woman to lock him down.

                                          We keep hearing how evil or immoral it is for 'manipulative' men to waste women's fertile years by pumping and dumping them (Alpha Fux). Yet such people ignore how women's goal is to do the exact same thing to men by ensuring that as much as possible, beta males are denied any avenue for sexual relationships outside of marriage, and alpha males are kept in the dark for as long as possible about their real market value so that women have a better chance of locking down the alphas before age forces them to settle for betas. Modern women's ideal endgame is to eat their cake AND your cake - by finding a chump who will commit to them permanently in modern marriage a.k.a. female-centric, state-sanctioned wage slavery.

                                          So why do we have this notion, that an extreme minority of 'unplugged' men must unilaterally hold themselves to a higher moral standard which women and the rest of society do not follow?

                                          When we specifically advocate 'improving ourselves to the extent that we can have sexual relationships without gaming woman' as THE morally optimal choice, rather than the mixture of pros and cons it really is, we are making the exact mistake quoted above, where men "define their own sexual strategy in a way that best delivers results to the female sexual strategy".

                                          TRP is not here to judge whether one man's sexual strategy is more 'moral' than another man's - this is a private conversation that exists apart from the amoral workings of a woman's hindbrain-induced gina tingles. As red pill writers like Rollo are fond of saying, "The red pill is descriptive, not prescriptive."

                                          Neither is it the essence of TRP to advocate for a more collectivistic society where alpha/beta distinctions are blurred by raising betas up and keeping alphas down - which is being done successfully in some Asian countries, for example. TRP is apolitical.

                                          TRP is, at its core, about understanding how women's brains work regardless of how the societal environment around them is configured - whether you are in a more individualistic, sociopathic Westernized society, or a more collectivistic Asian society, the societal software may be different but the underlying female hardware is always the same. TRP is first and foremost about unplugging rather than self-improvement. It is about showing you the map, rather than dictating the best destination or the best road.

                                          [–]2 Mredpillschool[M] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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                                          It's such a circlejerk that you got upvoted.

                                          Have a point? make it. But shut up about circlejerking, that's an annoying phrase and it's simple untrue.

                                          [–]Azediae 6 points7 points  (1 child)

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                                          men for whom true love isn't in the cards

                                          What does that even mean in regards to something as nebulous and contingent upon entropy as "true love"? Isn't in the cards? Men have achieved far more precise, difficult and outrageous goals than "true love". It's our job to make it so it's "in the cards". That's what being a man is.

                                          [–]1trplurker 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                                          No such thing as "true love", doesn't exist, is a fantasy story.

                                          The feeling we associate with "love" is merely a set of hormones produced by the brain to encourage us to make and then raise kids. We can synthesize those hormones and inject them into anyone and make them "fall in love".

                                          Also women are utterly incapable of feeling unconditioned love towards a man. Their love always, without exception has conditions placed on it and thus can be nullified. The closest thing to real love they know is the love they have for their own children, and only because the precondition (perceived as being biologically related) is nearly impossible to remove after the fact.

                                          So anyone saying bullshit about "true love" has already been pussy whipped and is on a one way street to being cuckolded.

                                          [–]16 Endorsed ContributorGayLubeOil 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                                          Lets take this moment to talk about perspective. If a liberal minded person sits on his high horse and yells moral or immoral, what does he actually know about the world? Unless he has actually gone and TRPd some girls his oppinion is nothing more than speculation and narcissistic masturbation. Im better than those assholes over there, give me high fives. Cool story bro. Female sexuality is complex and doesn't fit into the politically correct box. Im sure alot of people are enjoying their feel good super happy pretend time compete with feels feminism and emotionally attuned androgynous she dudes. However some of us are ready to have a mature conversation about human sexuality.

                                          [–]dnietz 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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                                          First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you

                                          [–]SouthwellR 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                                          Well I love myself, in the words of Whitney Houston, that is "the greatest love of all".

                                          [–]ArtilleryCamel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                                          The guys says that he is from here, even goes on to make a case for us:

                                          And it's damned effective in some cases. It'll get you what you want if you do it right.

                                          Then goes on to make some bogus heart-felt argument not to be here. And we have our most successful day of growth in history.

                                          That motherfucker....

                                          Check our growth here: http://redditmetrics.com/r/TheRedPill

                                          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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                                          [deleted]

                                            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                                            [deleted]

                                              [–]logi_thebear 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                                              My whole problem with the true love premise is that it takes away the choice factor from it.

                                              I love my girlfriend, without a doubt. Do I feel this way because I'm a slave to my emotions? No, the emotions are the benefit to a decision I've made. I want to be with her, I want to build a life together, and make her into a better person.

                                              Taking choice out of a relationship, IMO, directly leads to many of the problems you see. I'll explain. Without choice the only thing keeping you in it is getting those good feels. Sometime those will run out, you'll have an off day, you'll be tempted to leave her for someone else. I believe love is an action word. It's not something you feel, it's something you do. When you decide you want to be with somebody, you make choices that reinforce that. If you don't make those choices, it dies.

                                              So in short, this guy is completely wrong. Relationships require work, dedication, and learning the person you're with.

                                              [–]Psycho_Delic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                                              "True Love"

                                              I swear, I hate this term. I fall more in love with the next girl, every fucking time. Love means something entirely different to each person. I have been in love, deeper and deeper with every serious girlfriend I've ever had. Right now, I'm back together with one that's been off and on for 6 years. And I love her very much.

                                              That doesn't mean in the least bit that RP is wrong. RP is why all these women love me back. And it's even more laughable that they think RP behavior is something you're consciously aware of. Like who comes in TRP and looks at this like a scientific formula? It's a set of guidelines on how to be a manly man. That's fucking it. Drowing in pussy is literally just the main benefit (Opinions may vary on that) of TRP.

                                              God damn do I hate people who deal in absolutes.

                                              [–]hohamocha 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                              This is called Nirvana fallacy

                                              Came into this post thinking it was going to be about how Kurt Cobain understood that his wife Courtney Love was a filthy slut (thus swallowed the red pill) and then blew his own head off.

                                              But yeah I agree, Red Pill can lead to anger which in turn can lead to bad things if the taker is not strong enough to handle the truth. Look at Elliot Rodgers.

                                              [–]WomboComboFool 4 points5 points  (1 child)

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                                              yeah i fucked up lol. i tried to let them know that the red pill isn't dogma and that it should be taken with a grain of salt. I should have just ignored it and let them circle-jerk

                                              [–]Mr_Andry 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                                              I posted a reply, but I know it will be ignored or downvoted. I just have to vent. What they do with it is their problem.

                                              [–]LuciusExitius 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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                                              My thing with this is what about losing weight? If you want to lose weight to feel better, be healthier and too attract more women would that be manipulation? What if your "game" is you trying to become more social is that manipulation? Game isn't about tricking anyone into anything its about no caring what other people think and having the courage to meet new people. Sounds like a class system, since your dad wasnt an alpha and didn't have the royal blood you will never move up in status.

                                              [–]kellykebab 4 points5 points  (15 children)

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                                              Is anyone here aware that the EMSK essay does not once mention "true love?"

                                              Here's an actual quote though:

                                              Be willing to improve yourself. Nobody's perfect. Spot those places that need work (I assure you, they're there, and if you can't spot them, I guarantee the people around you can), and start improving on those things.

                                              Sound a little like RP philosophy? I think so.

                                              [–]Phaint 5 points6 points  (12 children)

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                                              Just because I agree with one facet of libertarianism doesn't make me a libertarian.

                                              [–]kellykebab 6 points7 points  (11 children)

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                                              What does that have to do with my point? I'm not saying the EMSK author is Red Pill. I'm saying the meat of his writing is at least complimentary to a lot of Red Pill philosophy. There's way too much entrenched tribalism in this subreddit that's basically another version of SJWs, fundamentalist Christians, and other equally deluded true believers. My point is that there's plenty to agree on even with a supposed "enemy."

                                              Jesus people, read the actual essay. He stereotypes the Red Pill, but even admits that up front, because his main point is really to argue against a specific element of the Red Pill that he sees as potentially destructive. I sincerely fear people who unflaggingly believe that one particular philosophy (especially an amateur philosophy cooked up for internet forums) portrays a crystal clear, 100% accurate view of the world. This attitude is simply uncritical dogmatism.

                                              If you don't feel you belong to that camp and can actually acknowledge that the Red Pill might have weaknesses here and there, then I'm not speaking about you.

                                              I hope I interpreted your response correctly. Feel free to clarify if I made any unfounded assumptions.

                                              [–]silly_bird 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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                                              Yeah, but I'd bet that the poster of that essay hasn't bothered to read the sidebar, participate, nor understand the issues/topics going on here, yet has the gall to write an essay about how TRP is bad, because after all everyone else says it's bad so it must be right?

                                              [–]kellykebab 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                              Read the essay. Then let me know what you think.

                                              [–]waynebradysworld 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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                                              The success of that post is boggling my mind right now. Is my competition in life really that clueless?!? No wonder most things come so easy to me.

                                              A lot of people must have really, really, really unhappy loser fathers. Makes me sad.

                                              Pulling a blNket over your head and hiding behind ideological fantasy vs accepting cold hard fact. Classic!

                                              [–]MockingDead 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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                                              True love is a fallacy, and illusion cast by Blue Pillers who fail to nderstand their alpha nature. If she loves you true, it's because you are the most-best man in her vicinity.

                                              Naturals often fail to understand their skill.

                                              [–]EducatedCavemen 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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                                              Some guys are just so Solipsistic that they think that if they can get a girl than everybody can do the same. Even in cases when the guy gets the girls by accident(meaning because he was orbiting or maybe the girl was tired of running around chasing alpha cock) they believe that their technique works. It works but not because they planned on it working.

                                              Nobody is the same, there is no such thing as equality and as long as that stays the same then TRP will be the only way for men to have a chance to be better.

                                              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                                              [deleted]

                                                [–]sweetjingle -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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                                                Society teaches that blue pill is the moral choice.

                                                [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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                                                [deleted]

                                                  [–]My_Dog_Jax 6 points7 points  (1 child)

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                                                  It doesn't really exist. Relationships are work man. PERIOD. Some are better than others, some easier, but honestly there is someone out there who you could definately get along with better.

                                                  True love- out of the 6billion people on planet earth your 1 in a bazillion girl happened to be in a bar the night you were in your zip code?

                                                  BP-TRUE love is time spent/how much you care. This is wrong. Time spent in a relationship as we see all too often is a horrible indicator. We also know that caring (while itself not bad) turns off most women if expressed in poor ways.

                                                  Alpha would be contributing to a relationship in a redpill way. Time spent in a relationship that enhances your life. It's kinda like a game. The more happiness points you score the more you win. You get to set the win condition. Self-improvement, happiness, redpill.

                                                  [–]tatti_ke_tukde 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                                                  Motherfucking this! What that dude described was an ideal scenario (biased towards highly attractive men) which is great when it works but it seldom occurs. We are trying to up our chances and making sense of the game (which both sides are playing) and that's it. Amazing post!

                                                  [–]ultrasuperthrowaway 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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                                                  People are all just an amalgamation of experiences an hereditary traits. You will have good days and bad. You will act and react to certain things differently everyday according to your momentary thoughts and actions.

                                                  You are always "true you" even if you learn something stupid from a website or any other source.