all 200 comments

[–]haminspace4 343 points344 points  (21 children)

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Thanks for the welcome!

I came here because I read that "best of" post and was like, "this seems like a place for chauvinistic assholes" and then I took a look around and I'm like, "holy shit, this is something that could really help me". I just got out of a terrible relationship with a girl that used me emotionally and I basically spent all my time apologizing (even after we broke up) and when I looked at this sub, something clicked. I had tried to be this knight in shining armor and this sweet, sensitive, overly available "nice guy". what I am finding here, is that you can be a nice guy and still have self respect and the ability to convey yourself in a more respectable way. I have been a mess lately over some girl who obviously doesn't respect me, and what I hope to find in this sub is guidance to take back the control over the aspects of my life that attract women, a big one being respect. From what I gather so far, I don't think this is a place for bitter dudes who don't get laid. I think it is a place where nice guys can find a way to compete with a society of woman that are on this overly beyonce-fied war path against "assholes" and feel the need to use sex as a means of power. Thank you very much!

Edit: Thanks for the gold /u/Immuchtooawesome! You truly are much too awesome.

[–]JihadDerp 25 points26 points  (0 children)

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I recommend the book No More Mr. Nice Guy if you want to get over the nice guy syndrome. On that note, I recommend the subreddit /r/redpillbooks to supplement the sidebar material. (Woops, just saw it's linked in the sidebar. Leaving it here anyway.) And finally, as your first exercise in swallowing the red pill, I recommend you strike the word "sorry" from your vocabulary. It's a very overused word by nice guys. If you actually hurt someone and were in the wrong, address it and make it right without the word "sorry." You'll notice your spine get a little stronger every time you instinctively wanted to say "sorry," but realized it wasn't necessary. For example when you accidentally bump into somebody. You shouldn't be apologizing for occupying your own space.

A line I read on here that hit home for me: What body part to women find most attractive on a man? A spine.

[–]Immuchtooawesome[🍰] 36 points37 points  (0 children)

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You're the reason we're here. Have some gold.

[–]2 Mredpillschool[S] 78 points79 points  (0 children)

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You're on the right path there, mate. Welcome. Enjoy the sidebar!

[–]sniperhiding 69 points70 points  (7 children)

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Bingo. The more reddit yaps about how evil this sub is, the more attention we get, and the more the REAL story comes to light, as you have just seen yourself. Welcome aboard.

[–]soupermain 8 points9 points  (0 children)

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Ain't no such thing as bad publicity for us

[–]dandeezy 8 points9 points  (1 child)

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that's why I wasn't even mad or attempted to reply to comments there, no matter how tempting.

a man can use his composure and patience better than a sword. -- (not sure if a quote, so I'll take credit)

[–]sokolske 9 points10 points  (0 children)

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I think this quote fits better "courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is what it takes to sit down and listen" Winston Churchill

[–]DJQuik 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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am I the only one that doesn't want it to come to light? It's probably insecurity but I want to maintain an advantage over the competition.

[–]sniperhiding 1 point2 points  (1 child)

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Think of it like weight lifting. Take the idea that lifting (done right) will vastly improve your life. That idea is definitely in the bright lights, well known by almost all men. Yet, 90% of people don't commit to it. So if you commit, stay with it, you will beat out most people who also know about it, but are too lazy to get out and do something.

I bet 90% of men who follow TRP, while they totally agree with TRP, never put anything to action other than being a keyboard tough guy.

[–]Golden-Sylence 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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I bet 90% of men who follow TRP, while they totally agree with TRP, never put anything to action other than being a keyboard tough guy.

I too get the feeling that this is probably correct. One big thing I've taken out of TRP is that a lie you tell yourself is worse than a lie you tell others. You could come here and spout all the bravado in the world, but if you are lying to yourself and convincing yourself that you ARE doing these things when you are not, the only person you are harming (and the only person who cares) is you. Control the situation, cultivate an abundance mentality (even if its not an abundance reality), and quit lying to yourself about how well you're doing.

Introspection should be the most powerful tool in your arsenal, because only through knowing yourself can you really know how you should change yourself.

[–]atleastitsnotaids 26 points27 points  (4 children)

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I would not worry so much about being a nice guy. And a lot of us here probably aren't nice guys. It's not a good strategy if what you are actually concerned about is garnering respect and attracting women.

You should work on cultivating a 'myself first' attitude in all aspects of your life. This is the antithesis of the typical 'nice guy' that people envision. You can do it in a way that isn't objectively 'mean' to others, sure, but others should never be your primary concern.

People will respect you and women will like you when they see that you are inwardly focused with strong boundaries and limited time for others. They will begin to value you more instinctively because you have become a limited resource.

If you are truly new here this is something I would focus on first, as well as becoming familiar with the sidebar material. Work on improving yourself and developing a frame of confidence and self respect and self centeredness before you worry about the finer nuances of the red pill or 'strategy'.

TL;DR lose the nice guy idea.

Like everyone else says, welcome.

[–]haminspace4 9 points10 points  (3 children)

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I appreciate that a lot, and that is kind of the vibe that I get as far as disregarding what is normally perceived as "nice" and doing it in a way that serves myself more. As I get older (soon to be 25) I realize that people don't actually give a shit about other people to the extent that I once believed. Its not that they aren't compassionate, its just human nature. What I hope to gain is a viewpoint that allows me to be a nice and genuinely good person, in a way that doesn't make me lose myself to the idea of others perception (particularly women). What you are saying about being a limited resource is so very true and in my heart of hearts I have known that for some time as the evidence has presented itself time and time again. I think the key for me will lie in maintaining that attitude as life ebbs and flows. That is a skill I hope to gain. I believe I've seen it referred to on here as "maintaining my frame".

[–]3 Endorsed ContributorRedPope 14 points15 points  (0 children)

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people don't actually give a shit about other people to the extent that I once believed

I would have sworn it was a Dale Carnegie quote, but Google says otherwise. One of my favorites:

"You probably wouldn’t worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do." --Olin Miller

Most men are invisible to most women. We refer to this as the 80/20 rule. 80% of women are chasing the same 20% of men. Your goal is to become part of that top 20%. It takes a lot of effort and is very competitive. You may only be able to maintain that peak for a few years, but while you are there you will enjoy female desirability like you cannot believe.

If fortune was unkind, and you were born disfigured or defective, you may be incapable of reaching that peak. That is still no excuse. Climb as high as you can. Try different routes. Seek out less competitive environments. But claim as much success as you are able, and always, always, give that ceiling one more shove. Better to fail halfway up the mountain, than to live life at the bottom, miserable for having never climbed.

[–]1bicepsblastingstud 16 points17 points  (0 children)

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One of the hardest things for decent, honorable men to grasp is that honor is a male construct. Women shouldn't be expected to be honorable in the way a man understands the word.

Once you don't hold women to that standard (and recognize that few men will meet it as well) I think it becomes a little easier to be a 'genuinely good person' while still relying primarily on yourself and putting yourself first.

[–]doubleknee24 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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From what you've written it seems like you could gain a lot from this book No More Mr Nice Guy. You will see it recommended on here as you continue to read the side bar. It will help.

[–]elchoma90 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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Don't be a nice guy. Be a kind man. Hell, it even sounds better!

[–]polysyllabist 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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A meaningful majority of people who rejected societies "be a sensitive doormat, get the girl" narrative were 'assholes'. It's not that assholes get the girl, it's the strong and confident men who aren't going to bend over backwards because they have self respect that get the girl.

You, can be the kind of guy women are actually attracted too and still be a nice guy.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

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[deleted]

    [–]the99percent1 180 points181 points  (7 children)

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    With mods like this, you know damn safe well that we are in good hands.

    Welcome to RP.

    [–]Draki1903 37 points38 points  (0 children)

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    Albeit let's make it clear - We don't like our mods because they're some cult voodoo heads bashing in their own feedback loop.

    We like our mods because they straight up get things done. In 24 hours from the EMSK thread /u/redpillschool noticed a spike of 1440 newcomers or a 2,4%* daily increase as of 19:27 CET and wrote this introduction piece to clear up common misconceptions of what this place is.

    *Math here is a subject to change, the number is probably higher by now.

    Also 60k users GET HYPE

    [–]5iveApples 43 points44 points  (3 children)

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    Seriously, thank you mods for maintaining a vision for TRP. It really is quite outstanding considering how much things are stacked against the sub, but you guys always seem to figure it out.

    [–]therandomthrowaway 60 points61 points  (2 children)

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    The funny thing is, the opposition forces TRP to more clearly define itself, strengthening it. Like resistance training makes a muscle stronger, their attempts to distort TRP has actually led to more definition and differentiation from pickup, seduction and men's rights.

    Note how the taboo against criticizing feminism has led to feminism being a shapeless mess, with no clear definition or goals, and basically becoming a big umbrella for people to whine under. People will come to TRP upset, so it's important that the bad behaviour of women is pointed out. But ultimately, it's about men learning to be effective, and you can only be effective if you can see the world as it actually is, not just what you're told it is.

    Fantastic damn post, and I'm hoping it really sinks in with all the new subbers.

    [–]g33n 16 points17 points  (0 children)

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    the taboo against criticizing feminism has led to feminism being a shapeless mess, with no clear definition or goals, and basically becoming a big umbrella for people to whine under.

    Interesting.

    I had a (meta-)conversation about how so often feminism doesn't entertain criticism, and it quickly turned into someone calling me a misogynist for challenging anything feminists have to say. But if you're not saying anything in particular, how can your positions be defensible?

    [–]quantum25 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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    has led to feminism being a shapeless mess, with no clear definition or goals, and basically becoming a big umbrella for people to whine under.

    I've been trying to find words to phrase these thoughts and now I've found them thanks!

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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    Hear hear. What a great mod team we have here!

    [–]1independentmale 132 points133 points  (9 children)

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    TRP is a club for men, reminiscent of the old school men's clubs that used to be popular until women infiltrated them. Here, we can lean back, smoke a cigar, drink some scotch and talk shop with other like minded men.

    We don't use politically correct, sensitive language. That shit is for women, by women. It's always been this way. My grandfather and his buddies drank and swore and didn't sugarcoat their words, except when they were around women.

    Men need male spaces. Places where we can be men without being shamed by women for our masculinity. This is one of a very few such places.

    Welcome, men.

    [–]1Hyooge 37 points38 points  (2 children)

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    Your first paragraph is something I have barely experienced in my life. I had an upbringing with a father who despised profanity, bluntness and ruthlessness, he appeased my mother and did not carry the family through everything. I felt chained down and emasculated by my own upbringing and knew something was off but only realised it till I came across websites in the Manosphere and TRP.

    Men are meant to spend time with other men and say the raw nature of things instead of trying to appease everyone and offend no one.

    Any man, regardless if he is RP or a BP bitch will love spending time with other men doing masculine activities. He will feel accepted and in the right environment.

    [–]P1r4nha 5 points6 points  (1 child)

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    My father wasn't around much so I've basically grew up with a mother and a sister and only much later on my mother's boyfriend joined the family.

    Our relationship is great and I love my family including the extended one and also including my father who I see from time to time. So despite the lack of a man in the house I grew up in a good environment and I'm very good at being independent and taking care of myself now that I'm an adult and live by myself. So my mum was able to raise me to tackle life fully... Except there is no fucking way she prepared me for my role as a man in society and any forms of relationship with women other than platonic friendship. Which isn't useless, but just not the whole story.

    I still love spending time with women when it's not sexual, but man does a group of just men feel good.

    [–]LasherDeviance 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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    I am the exact opposite of this, as I wont spend anytime with women that is non sexual except work and family.

    [–]lithium_bromide 5 points6 points  (5 children)

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    I recently heard this from a woman trying to get some action from our group of male friends"Men are increasingly becoming more feminine, and it really sucks"

    So what are woman spaces? Other than the bathroom, which is a pretty big one, thus the whole every woman in a group goes to the bathroom at the same time.

    [–]1independentmale 5 points6 points  (2 children)

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    Woman spaces seem to be every space. Look at the average American household: The entire home is decorated by the woman and she controls what goes on there. Men get very little, if any, input. They are relegated to the garage or, if they're very lucky, the woman "allows" him use of a portion of an unused room or basement as a man cave. Having his buddies over for drinks and cards on the dining room table is bound to make her pissy and often flat out denied. How many of us have ever had a wife or girlfriend who tolerated our friends coming over for poker night or other male event on any kind of a regular basis? I certainly haven't.

    [–]RockinRhombus 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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    So what are woman spaces?

    Slightly off topic, but it reminds me of Dan Savage on the topic of what it is to be a man. It seems that being a "man" is, according to him, defined as being everything a woman is not. And as women start to take on traditional male behaviours/positions the circle of "man" begins to shrink.

    It kind of ties into your posed question. Women spaces are, nowadays, pretty much anything. They have the freedom to explore at their content, but it raises the question, what is left for us? To shuffle off to "man caves"? The last safe space of an endangered species? /hyperbole?

    [–]3 Endorsed ContributorRedPope 27 points28 points  (2 children)

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    Consider for a second that this is actually a belief people hold- that there is a way to trick a woman into sleeping with you.

    Fucking amen! Next time some woman says this shit, ask them HOW. What trick would make you pants-dropping wet for some boring-but-nice, unattractive, overweight, career drone?

    You won't get a direct answer to that, because there is no trick. There are no magic words. There is no gimmick that will make her desire a man she doesn't find desirable.

    The "tricks" TRP will teach that guy are:

    • be less boring
    • don't be too nice
    • improve your appearance
    • lose some weight
    • better your career

    In short: Women want a better man, so make yourself a better man! Succeed at 4 of those 5 things and women will suddenly start to find you desirable. Hit all 5 and you're elite status.

    So simple. So obvious. So harmless. Common sense, right? Yet feminists recoil. They find our teachings repulsive. Why?

    Because when a man follows our advice -- when he truly becomes a better man -- then he no longer has to "settle" for a picky, dried-up, 35 year-old, ex-party girl. He can attract a happier, younger, attractive, feminine woman. He can get a true prize.

    Study after study has shown 80% of all women are chasing the top 20% of men. Once you break into that 20% club, you truly have your pick. But why settle for one? Pick two or three. They may claim otherwise, but real world experience shows women would rather share a winner, than have exclusivity with a loser.

    Oops, we broke the system!

    [–]subcover 9 points10 points  (0 children)

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    Picky, dried-up, 35 year-old, ex-party girls are extremely threatened by this. It's all about keeping up the supply of betabux. They're counting on those men to be there, chivalrously, to rescue them after they've found themselves.

    [–]jelloba 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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    They are threatened by this because you are changing yourself.

    Women want a man who is just naturally badass, who has never had to exert any effort in order to accomplish his success. When you, a not so valuable man, decide to work in order to achieve success, women feel like they've been tricked if they sleep with you, because you're just a "faker." How dare he try to escape the beta box, they think, he was born that way, and he should always be that way. Just look at women's outrage over "losers" who meet with huge success in East Asian countries. They can't stand it when a man "cheats" the system which benefits them.

    [–]Mustaka 51 points52 points  (9 children)

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    Very well written message Mate.

    I would like to add that I think this community has handled the attention very well. The true RP'illers engaged in the shit storm in a non hateful or confrontational manner or did not engage at all and just let the haters hate which in turned pissed the haters off more.

    And that fellow TRP people is what being Red Pill is all about.

    [–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 35 points36 points  (4 children)

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    What a waste of time it would be to go argue with them, I have so many better things to do, like clip my toenails, or play Sudoku while taking a dump.

    Every woman who has ever slept with me has done so because of the dominant frame I carried, and every one that left me was because I was too nice to them. This shit works, you can hate it all you want, but results are worth more than blathering online. Rather than argue about it, its better to put it in practice and show it works as stated.

    [–]krinoman 4 points5 points  (3 children)

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    It's best to ignore them. Usually they are against TRP not because they have a rational objection to any idea expressed here, often they reject TRP because they are emotionally hurt by it (i.e. they don't like it). As a result they can only debate with fallacies such as strawmen and apply impractical standards. It's very similar to debating religion or politics with a fanatic, they are emotionally invested in a world view and there is no winning here.

    It reminds me of this verse:

    Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

    Mathew 7:6 KJV

    [–]colovick 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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    A more palatable version of that is "those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still."

    [–]EducatedCavemen 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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    Or

    Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him.

    Proverbs 26:4

    But yeah, the point holds, don't argue with BPs.

    [–]AlexTheGrump 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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    I like Proverbs 9:7,8

    7 Whoever corrects a scoffer gets himself abuse, and he who reproves a wicked man incurs injury. 8 Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you; reprove a wise man, and he will love you.

    [–]17 Endorsed ContributorJP_Whoregan 26 points27 points  (3 children)

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    One of the first steps on the journey is to put your own dignity and self-respect at the top of your priorities and to stop seeking outside validation from people you don't give a shit about. This is why, as u/redpillschool put it, we don't engage the "unappeasable". TRP cannot be spoon fed to people who have no interest in understanding it or the reason for its genesis.

    [–]Phaint 8 points9 points  (0 children)

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    The Red Pill is hard to digest and it hates spoon feeding.

    [–]quantum25 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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    is to put your own dignity and self-respect at the top of your priorities and to stop seeking outside validation from people you don't give a shit about.

    Once you realize this, the desperate thirst of validation and approval white knight manginas project just becomes so pathetic and disgusting. You can smell the desperation of betas who don't know, or choose not know any better. It's like smelling marijuana, once you know the smell you instantly pick it up whenever you encounter it.

    [–]Summertime_Dimes 34 points35 points  (0 children)

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    Direct, Straightforward, unapologetic, well-written, solid post.

    I cannot speak for all, but many of us were conditioned from a young age to smile while being force fed bowls of shit. Be understanding, be nice, be a gentleman, asking for something is rude - you know the rest. After so many years of goddamn brainwashing, it comes as no suprise that so many humans don't even know that what they are eating is actual shit.

    RP saved me from decades of eating shit from women, from work, from life. I don't manipulate, I don't connive, and I don't abuse. I improve me, and the life that surrounds me improves as well. TRP was easy for me. Some others enjoy the comfort of familiarity and the blinders that come with it. After all, TRP will take 95% of what you believe a man should and should not be and throw it in the garbage. Thanks to the mods especially for their work. Frame, Motherfucker, Frame, brahs.

    [–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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    I want to emphasize the need to curtail the "TRP is only about self-improvement" malarkey that is slowly pervading every post. It's a subtle under-the-radar means of tone policing. It's important for everyone to realize that understanding the correct way to navigate romantic relations is just as valuable, something which often involves accepting behaviour that will get you labelled as an asshole.

    Don't be afraid to discard the view that women are holy goddesses that can do no wrong and are in need of your undivided support and attention. Just don't go around vocalizing it.

    [–]pheonixignition 20 points21 points  (0 children)

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    I cannot reiterate enough how true this is, for all you new people. I went through a fraternity, and I couldn't understand why I was not swimming in pussy, despite all the guys I considered "assholes" getting laid around me. I was nice, friendly, knew how to cook and clean...my mom even stated she literally turned me into perfect husband material: which is exactly what none of those girls were looking for.

    Fast forward to after a very difficult divorce, where I found the red pill, and literally every thing in life I didn't understand and watched unfold before my eyes that was counter to everything I had ever been told finally made sense. Because everything I had been told was a lie. A feel good lie, because people wanted it to be true, but the fact of the matter it isn't.

    [–]BluepillProfessor 16 points17 points  (1 child)

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    Great job OP (original poster) and a superb welcome to everybody. This Reddit contains some exceptional advice and some very smart guys with a proven, solid philosophy. There is no doubt this Reddit also contains racists, misogynists, morons, and High School kids who can't get laid but those posts are usually easy to recognize.

    All we are offering is the truth. These are eminently actionable truths in a world full of lies.

    They lied to us about what women really want.

    They lied to us about what makes women sexually excited.

    They lied to us about how to get women to have sex with us.

    They lied to us about how to maintain a long term relationship.

    They lied to us about how to get and keep the love of a woman.

    They lied to us about how to be happy in a relationship.

    There is a reason we use the Red Pill analogy! The feminine matrix has lied to us. We live in a Disney-esque fantasy that all we have to do is be NIIIICEE and keep your woman haaaappppy and everything will be fine. Except the way to keep women happy is different than we have been told.

    This Reddit and the Red Pill blogs in the Manosphere are comparing field notes on these questions AND WE HAVE COME UP WITH SOLID ANSWERS TO MOST OF THE LIES THAT WE HAVE BEEN TOLD. WE HAVE UNCOVERED THE TRUTH. It is a hard truth and not to be basked in because it is probably going to piss you off, BUT it is a truth with what we call actionable intelligence. When you know the REAL ANSWER to the lies we have been told you can start to change your life for the better. You can start to attract women and have relationship and keep relationships strong. You have to ask yourself why anybody would oppose that?

    Yes there is a lot of anger and pain on this Reddit. Men who have been divorced and had their children taken away and alienated from them while their little ears now get to hear another man pound away at their mother on the marital bed have a right to be angry. Men who live in a tiny apartment in the inner city, pays the mortgage for his ex-wife's house, most of his income, and sees his kids for 2 hours on Wednesday have a right to be angry. Men who married having sex twice a day who are suddenly reduced to twice a month on the honeymoon have a right to think maybe they were tricked by this system. Men who have been lied to their whole lives- don't change a thing, don't focus on improving yourself, you are a niiiiccce guy, why ANY girl would love to be with you... has a right to be pissed. Pardon us for expressing that anger in the only place it is still permitted.

    But once you get past the anger you will realize that the TRUTH is on our side. Read it, learn it, and weep. Then rejoice and use your new knowledge to make it better- one plate at a time.

    [–]gg_s 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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    Women didn't lie to us, they speculated and we were dumb enough to listen. They will continue to speculate but now we know better.

    [–]daktardoom 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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    Untill recently I used to consider myself a feminists, and convinced myself that all the man-hating feminists in those circles just weren't "real feminists". But with the leaking of the domestic violence stats and the whole Elliot Richard and #YesAllWomen crap shit really hit the fan and took to an entirely new level of men hating. It was suddenly all out in the open, and it really got me thinking. And apparantly, I'm hardly the only one. I've been considering myself an egalitarian since then and broke from feminism, and on Facebook I've been involved in so many discussions on Upworthy and Policy.Mic which nowadays seem to be 9/10 feminists men-hating posts promoting this rape culture bullshit and repeating the same old BS, debunked facts.

    It became clear to me that women don't want sollutions. They don't want facts or statistics. They start of with statistics, then if you debunk them they guilt trip you by saying people aren't statistics and smother you with emotional anekdotes...

    I'm sick and tired of all the bullshit. I always thought MRA were a bunch of women hating fucktards, but after actually bothering to read what some of them had to say (actually thanks to Karen Straughan and Christina Hoff Sommers) my eyes were opened. There's no going back now. I still love women, but I'm done sucking up to them and being the nice guy. I'm going my own way. Take it or leave it. (funly enough I seem to be getting more attention ever since I stopped caring about what women thought of me)

    One of my favorite games to play on public transportation is to not acknowledge the hot chicks. They'll go out of their way just to have you look at them at least once. Some women (not all) really crave the attention. Has had some interesting results :-)

    [–]1 Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 31 points32 points  (7 children)

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    tl;dr:

    Morpheus: You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. (a red pill is shown in his other hand) You take the red pill and you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes. (Long pause; Neo begins to reach for the red pill) Remember -- all I am offering is the truth, nothing more. (Neo takes the red pill and swallows it with a glass of water)

    Welcome.

    [–][deleted]  (6 children)

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    [deleted]

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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      [deleted]

        [–]1 Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 6 points7 points  (2 children)

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        sucks

        Depends on what you want to achieve for yourself in life. I find the Matrix analogy so appropriate. You are offered nothing but the truth and the the truth is not comforting. Furthermore it doesn't end once you are unplugged. You need to dig deeper.

        Freeing myself has become my No. 1 mission since starting to look behind the curtains. To be able to be free I first need to find out a) who is holding me hostage, b) why i am kept a hostage, c) how I am kept a hostage and d) how to finally escape my kidnappers.

        The answers could be a variety of things depending on which level I am. The first level would be: a) Me, b) because I am afraid, c) by denial and d) free my mind.

        I question everything. Literally everything I was taught and took for being the truth. I don't forbid any thoughts and I don't wipe off any theory or opinion. No matter how a fanciful, distrubing, dangerous or puny it may look from the far.

        An example would be that I've just recently read the Una Bomber's Manifesto. And I came to the conclusion - although I do not approve of his methods - that this guy is far away from being insane and that many of the things he states originate from good observation and drawing thoughtful conclusions.

        I have left behind the invented frameworks of left, right, liberal, conservative, neoreactionary, capitalism, communism, fascism, feminism, manosphere, democracy and what they are all called. They are simply barriers build to keep you from thinking outside the box and canalyse much of your energy into fighting your percieved enemy. All of these, when practiced in the past, never bothered with personal freedom but were always focused on establishing a collectivistic system to control and exploit the majority for the benefits of a minority.

        It may be disturbing, I may experience feelings of extreme fear and helplessness from time to time, but it also gives me more inner peace and serenity and frees my mind and sharpens my senses by removing more and more noise.

        I abstained from discussing any of these with people anywhere which I don't feel to be thinking on the same level with me. I got rid of my urge to missionize people and "teach them" about what is right or wrong or what's really happening in this world.

        And all this was triggered just because I wanted to get better in pulling me some pussy.

        notbad.jpg

        [–]theozoph 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

        I question everything. Literally everything I was taught and took for being the truth. I don't forbid any thoughts and I don't wipe off any theory or opinion. No matter how a fanciful, distrubing, dangerous or puny it may look from the far.

        If you want to know where the biggest lies are hidden, look where you are told the worst things reside. That's how TRP is viewed, and we know how different is the view from the inside.

        Good luck on your quest, and may God always give you broader shoulders.

        [–]ITworksGuys 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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        Same happened to me with politics.

        I wish I were ignorant once again.

        [–]TooMuchToDoo 12 points13 points  (2 children)

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        Hijacking the stickied post.

        I've been a subscriber here since the January 4th spike, but I haven't seen this many outstanding posts in succession since I started out. Thank you to those who have been writing those articles.

        Sit down, shut up, read the side bar.

        Newcomers, have you heard this enough? It's in the best interest of you AND this sub if you lurk, be unnoticable, and soak in the knowledge before you start posting. If you have any questions for now, head over to /r/asktrp and we'll be happy to answer your questions or comments. Welcome!

        [–]ANakedBear 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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        Sit down, shut up, read the side bar.

        Agreed, when I first found this sub nothing made sense, until I read everything on the side bar.

        [–]laere 10 points11 points  (0 children)

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        I personally recommend newcomers to read some of the recommended books here after the side bar.

        The Rational Male, No More Mr. Nice Guy, The Book of Pook, Way of the Superior Man

        etc.

        Also it's good to go back and read the sidebar after a couple months, this way you're constantly internalizing and keeping sharp on things that are discussed here.

        [–]myrpaccount 7 points8 points  (3 children)

        sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

        I have one piece of advice for the newcomers. You may want to use an alt for any redpill posts/comments as you risk being downvoted all over reddit just for posting here.

        [–]MrRexels 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

        Let them. Being forced to use an alt account to express an opinion here it's the literal definition of persecution.

        And there's nothing like being persecuted to strenghen your arguments.

        [–]theozoph 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

        Let me qualify this statement : if you've posted personal information that could lead to your identity with your main reddit account, post here using an alt.

        Be warned that SJW haters are known to peruse our accounts (sometimes quite thoroughly) to find our personal info in the hopes of doxxing us, getting us fired, and destroying our reputation. Don't be an idiot, and keep your identity hidden.

        Law 5: So Much Depends on Reputation – Guard it with your Life

        [–]Echelon64 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

        Why? Fuck that shit. Imaginary internet points barely matter and I come here to reddit to vent, argue, learn, and take the piss with other like minded and even unequally minded people. You shouldn't be ashamed of that.

        [–]BrothaTom 17 points18 points  (3 children)

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        I look forward to being part of all this

        [–]RPthrowaway123 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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        Welcome to the club brother!

        [–]gg_s 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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        Make sure your expectations of this place are sound. TRP is not a movement vying to strongarm culture into a more pleasant environment for men. Rather, TRP imparts truthful and practical analysis of culture so that men are better equipped to navigate it.

        This isn't a male version of feminism. Simply hooking your wagons and hoping for a better tomorrow is not what we're about. Keep that in mind as you begin your journey. We offer truth, the rest is up to you. As you've been told, you get out what you put in.

        Welcome!

        [–]tobin2012 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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        I have say I respect this sub reddit so much. It's about time there is a pro-masculinity group. Until yesterday I had no idea this existed. I feel relieved I am not the only man on earth recognizing the atrocities that society has stacked against men, because it's trendy to feminist and kiss up to females. All I want is as a man is to be dignified for my alpha not being given resistance by societal trends for being alpha and not empathic to manipulative women or women who think it's okay to defy a man because society taught them it it's okay to be a diva.

        Women have no idea what the hell they want; has anyone ever seen them at a department store? How could anyone trust they know what they want from a man? It's up to us as men to know what's best for them. Otherwise decent men will be conditioned into betas, realize they aren't happy and not know how or why. That's why it's our duty to understand this and get the most out of life as we all can regardless if the feminist movement keeps gaining even more traction than it already has currently.

        Cheers to TRP!

        [–]StasisNation 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

        Now if only you could post some more kind, eloquent words to get the subscribers here to stop reading /r/TheRedPill and actually start applying it in their lives. What people need more than anything is a kick in the right direction. Not a nudge. And especially before it's too late.

        The thing I hate most about reading hate posts in this sub are from people who refuse to better themselves, period. In their miserable little lives pushing out everything good, because misery is normal and identifiable for them.

        "These posts are bullshit I'm never going to do this a real man wouldn't do this you're all misogynistic pieces of shit" Roughly translates into: "I don't have the fucking balls to do anything to better my life because my ex wife took them with her when she married a rich lawyer".

        Don't be that person. If you came here to hate, at least actually be informed of what you're trying to hate.

        /Rant

        [–]2 Mredpillschool[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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        Sometimes you gotta hit rock bottom before you make a change.

        [–]wbr_888 3 points4 points  (1 child)

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        Consider for a second that this is actually a belief people hold- that there is a way to trick a woman into sleeping with you.

        I think this point could have been stronger, and focussed on the hypocrisy a little more. The idea that women are strong, independent and capable but can be tricked seems contradictory. When the feminist narrative falls apart when it suits - what does that say?

        Not the truth that women are worse than men- but instead that women are worse than our culture's idealistic view of women.

        I get the whole "we will not be modifying our tone to appease the unappeasable", but "better" and "worse" is the sort of language choice people object to, and it is pointless when there is a more accurate way to put this.

        I think the more accurate statement is that TRP thinks women are DIFFERENT to the propaganda. Specifically as it relates to sexual strategy, the types of MEN that women like - strong, independent alpha leaders that take charge - is not the sort of man that the modern west promotes. i.e.

        1. There is a propagandised view of women and men that is inaccurate.
        2. The type of men women respond to sexually is in direct contradiction to said propaganda.

        If a man wants to have any sort of sexual success, step one is seeing through the propaganda to the truth, and step two is BECOMING that sort of man, not just for women, but because that sort of man is plain and simple genuinely BETTER.

        [–]subcover 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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        That's not my view of TRP. It's not just about getting better, it's also about using whatever you have, as it is, to gain more of what you want.

        All this stuff about getting better would make the feminists quite happy. Imagine the whole lonely dating age population of men going off to gyms to work their asses off, to get better looking for the women? Sounds like THEIR sexual strategy with us doing the work! White knight behavior, pedestaling them by doing so much work for them.

        (Hey, if you like lifting, go for it. But just shedding beta cues will get you most of the benefit. An important aspect is to realize that other girls have no similarity to your mother -- they are driven by attraction, whereas your mother, uniquely among women, loved you for you.)

        Nah, that's not all there is to redpill. I appreciate the moderator making that clear, and I am and will be a regular visitor / contributor because of it.

        [–]whatcanredditdo 8 points9 points  (0 children)

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        Been here since before 1K. Had a few alts since. Just want to say thanks to the mod team for maintaining such great standards. In a pussified world where everything is dumbed down and made easier for the LCD, this sub is a bastion. (side note...if you type in bastion definition in google...the second definition uses "the last bastion of male privilege" as an example...institutionalized misandry?)

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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        [deleted]

          [–]1Hyooge 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          One of the immediate things people need to know is that "alpha and beta" are not black and white, but they define traits in a person.

          I find that if someone is worrying about if they "are not alpha enough" they are expressing that they are insecure and unsure of themselves - Inherently a "beta" trait. Having self-reflection will tell that person that they are being a weak man and not displaying alpha characteristics.

          [–]Hexthorne 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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          It's probably also worth mentioning that men shit test women and other men all the time. It's not a trait I would normally associate with an alpha male, but it does happen pretty regularly.

          [–]ygduf 3 points4 points  (25 children)

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          I like how it goes from calm and rational to mean and angry at the end. It's like reading the screenplay of Adaptation.

          [–]1wall-of-meth 6 points7 points  (6 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          Good one. Keep up the nice work, this subreddit is my favourite one for a reason.

          I'd like to add:

          A very good point you mentioned is, that TRP doesn't purely consist of self improvement, but rather of building value in your life to get all the things you want.

          We don't improve for the pure sake of it, we improve towards a specific goal. Otherwise you don't even know what to improve. Getting good money in a job you like, having a good LTR/selection of plates, be the most dominant force in conversations, ... . Those are probably the most common goals. You choose a goal to master the skill neccessary to own that goal. It teaches you not only to use the skill, but also to work around or with and unfriendly environment and act accordingly. If that's morally correct or not only depends on your personal moral. For me, this is the only way to go.

          [–]Endorsed Contributorvacuu 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          A very good point you mentioned is, that TRP doesn't purely consist of self improvement, but rather of building value in your life to get all the things you want.

          TRP is really about truth. No more, no less. It is a philosophy where truth is desired more than comfortable illusions.

          Beyond that, it is true to say that many who swallow the pill choose self-improvement as a goal. But that is an individual choice and not a requirement.

          [–]duglock -4 points-3 points  (3 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          If that's morally correct or not only depends on your personal moral. For me, this is the only way to go

          It should be stressed that TRP is amoral.

          [–]streetsorcerer 1 point2 points  (2 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          That's what he means. Morality is subjective, behavior that one person might find reprehensible might be indispensable to another.

          [–]duglock 4 points5 points  (1 child)

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          I think I'm just splitting hairs, but amoral means it is irrelevant - not subjective. That was what I was trying to correct him on.

          [–]Endorsed Contributorvacuu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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          Good points, you shouldn't be downvoted so much.

          [–]subcover 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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          Thank you for identifying the real red pill. It's been harder to find recently, with what looks like an intentional flood of white knight trolls. It's hard work keeping that influence in check when, as I suspect, an outside group has decided to "clean us up" and sanitize this place of what makes it great. I appreciate your doing this work and standing firmly in place.

          [–]Peter044 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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          Its great to be part of TRP, a sanctuary for men in a world that has in many ways lost sense of our role and our value. Like all sanctuaries though, be warned; there will soon come a time where we attract enough attention from those who oppose and are threatened by TRP ideas, will try and infiltrate and attack from the inside. Be on the lookout Redpillredditors, and make sure that we stay strong and true when these people arrive in our place.

          Key going on the journey, our right place in the world is just, and its necessary.

          [–]DatOpenSauce 1 point2 points  (4 children)

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          Thank you for the welcome! I understand what this sub is about now, but I don't understand why it is called The Red Pill? Is it a Matrix thing?

          [–]Tarn_Delus 4 points5 points  (3 children)

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          Hey man, it's a Matrix reference indeed. "The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are pop culture symbols representing the choice between embracing the sometimes painful truth of reality (red pill) and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill).

          The terms, popularized in science fiction culture, derive from the 1999 film The Matrix. In the movie, the main character Neo is offered the choice between a red pill and a blue pill. The blue pill would allow him to remain in the fabricated reality of the Matrix, therefore living the "illusion of ignorance", while the red pill would lead to his escape from the Matrix and into the real world, therefore living the "truth of reality"."

          from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_pill_and_blue_pill

          [–]LAMFF -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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          Captain Matrix Obvious is...Captain Matrix Obvious. True story!

          [–]KlaiFrai 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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          Glad to see that I'm relatively accurate when explaining RP philosophy to friends. I was introduced to TRP within the last 2 months, and from there I settled into RPW comfortably. Long story short, what was already a naturally RP relationship in many aspects has become even better, hotter, and happier thanks to you guys and the ladies at RPW. It's great to see SO step up when I step aside and give him the respect he deserves, and I'm slowly introducing my friends to the theories too. They seem receptive enough. Thanks guys. I'll try not to post on here too often.

          [–]UnimpressedAsshole 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          "In nature, the law is eat or be eaten. In human society, the law is define or be defined."

          [–]krinoman 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          Ah man, you did a great job here. It always seemed to me that painting the Red Pill as only a "self improvement sub" was making it more pc for readers who can't handle straightforward discussion of these types of topics. It's as if they wanted to make the pill easier to swallow for those who aren't ready to take it.

          Also thanks for warning others of writing those typical "too much xyz here these days", "it used to be better" etc. That is also a way to discreetly shame guys who come here to talk about painful and embarrassing experiences. This honest discussion can only happen with the anonymity that reddit provides and the attitude that this sub demands.

          Thanks again for the rules, you are doing your job as a mod and giving this community order and direction so that it won't be hijacked by pc subscribers into something different.

          [–]∞ Red Pill VisionaryRollo-Tomassi 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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          For the new subscribers –

          The Evolution of Game: http://therationalmale.com/2013/04/19/the-evolution-of-game/

          At its root level Game is a series of behavioral modifications to life skills based on psychological and sociological principles to facilitate intersexual relations between genders.

          [–]FortunateBum 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          As always, anybody trying to police tone or show concern that there's "too much of xyz" going on.. they'll be deleted and banned immediately. I don't have time for that shit. Anybody who says we've focused too much on one thing lately and things "used to be better" doesn't know shit and hasn't been here long enough to know fuck all. Men's rights, red and blue pill examples, and field reports are all core content that belong here.

          I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want,

          BUT SHIT

          I like your moderating abilities.

          Some guys want to vent to a receptive audience.

          Fucking let them.

          This is the only place on earth where that's possible.

          Give them that luxury at least.

          [–]1johnnight 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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          What happened? +1440 in a day?

          I was enjoing the slow growth recently...

          [–]ANakedBear 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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          Some one made a rant about us in the right place or something.

          Only time will tell if they are people thinking of taking the red pill or just gawkers.

          [–]kfpswf 6 points7 points  (1 child)

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          Even as the 'best-of'ed post was being up voted, a good female friend of mine imparted advice to me on how to interact with girls. What she said is basically RP. I can't believe that, according to the poster, men being naturally manipulated my women is OK, but men learning how to reverse that is not "true" love!

          [–]Dreamtrain 10 points11 points  (0 children)

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          You'll find that more often than not. When people in other subreddits are being sincere about attraction and having others respect you, the advice they give you pretty much is the same RP says and others will agree, but only as long as you don't call it RP or use RP terminology, if you do you'll be demonized and what you type will be pretty much disregarded, no matter how true or right it is.

          [–]Dreamtrain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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          This is what I had been thinking since the recent influx sparked apologistic threads, while self-improvement is a major element of RP and I agred with what people were saying, it somehow seemed off. I'm glad this is being addressed and by a mod no less.

          [–]Johnny10toes 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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          Well said. I like to think of it as understanding human nature. To look beyond what I'm told into what I see.

          [–]Lithiumthium 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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          stands up and claps loudly

          [–]trip812 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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          'Woohhs!' even though it's inappropriate.

          [–]noblepaladin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          Also, newbies should note that TRP are mostly observers. TRP does not recruit. And the official stance of TRP is to confine discussions within its own forums and to not invade other forums. This is not a movement. People here simply observe what happens and comment on it.

          TRP is amoral. Just because there are examples of women who execute short term strategies (ex: is promiscuous with many men, ends up a single mom) and gets poor long term results (can't find any good men any more because she is aging, looks are fading, and has a kid), that doesn't mean we hate her nor does it mean we hate women. People will have varying opinions on the situation. TRP is more about the cause and effect, or the action and the reaction, that is most likely to happen in real life.

          TRP did not cause men to dislike this single mom. It is just our observation that most men don't like single mothers. Our numbers are way too small to matter, and we do not invade other forums advertising our ideas. The ideas here are contained to this little corner of the Internet. Chances are you will never meet an active TRP member in real life. Most people here probably wish that the Disney fantasy of "happily ever after" for everybody is true. But it just doesn't match reality.

          We just believe that knowing the most likely consequences from each action will allow people to make more favorable decisions. It doesn't mean that we believe those consequences are fair or just. Most people here would say that life is unfair and unjust. It is just that those are the consequences that are likely, based on observations on what ordinary people (non-TRP members) do.

          [–]myrpaccount 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          Well I guess it depends. I like to occasionally drop some rp truth in other subs using non rp terminology. If the white knights see rp in my post history they will call it out and I'll be downvoted to oblivion. It makes it easier to spread rp knowledge when that doesn't happen.

          [–]deville05 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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          i'd like to say that its not just women, everybody wants to control somebody else. when you are a kid, your parents control you. when you become a teenager, they just dont stop automatically. they are still in control mode and thats why teenagers rebel... to regain control as individuals who realize that their life is theirs. you grow up feeling this lack of control over your own life whether its the system or your college or your work. and then you step into a relationship with someone and there it is again. but make no mistake unless someone is physically abusing your and walking you on a leash, control is also a lot about how much you let someone do it to you. those of us here who see the truth, know that if we were in a shitty relationship, its because we GAVE our control away because we got blinded by emotions, hence we dont think women are evil. we think women are women and we were stupid to think otherwise. now being emotionless is not what I advocate. but one should always strive to have their eyes and minds open when emotional. in the end either you give the control away and they take it all without being fair or you be the one who controls. how you choose to exercise your power will depend on what kind of a man you are

          [–]hohamocha 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          The red pill is the truth you must swallow. It is seeing the world for what it is and realizing that us humans are nothing more than animals. Women especially.

          [–]Adroxiom 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          Times like these get me all mushy! Thanks TRP for changing my perspective and frame of mind over the last 5-6 months. The progress continues and the women are mounting.

          [–]Aaron565 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          Is there a way to have this pop up to non subscribers before they actually get to read anything else on the subreddit? This is absolutely essential material. Great work!

          [–]NoLongerSisyphus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          Because women aren't looking for satisfaction, they're looking for control.

          ...and if you give them this control, they will truly hate you for it.

          [–]DiscreteOpinion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          This is a fantastic write-up. I'd like to propose an edit.

          So, why do we post about women's behavior? Because we're exposing the truth. Not the truth that women are worse than men- but instead that women are worse than our culture's idealistic view of women.

          I would like to add, to the very end, the sentence: In other words, they are, in fact, regular human beings.

          [–]87GNX 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          This is the best 'welcome to trp' post I've read.

          [–]Weedwin31 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          i really like red pill, this is one of the best reddits, and i really like the way we talk about the behaviour of women in a evolutionary perspective, Most of the people here don't talk that way but, it's my favorite shit when it comes to posts, i'm glad i found this page this shit feels like home to me

          [–]lurktrp 0 points1 point  (3 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          I'm not new to TRP. I lurk here all the time! I made a throwaway to comment though.

          I think you guys are onto something big with the men's right movement, there's a lot of sense and coherency to most of it but there's still outliers who are attributed to /trp that bring it down (e.g. recently it's been that Elliot Rodgers kid).

          [–]signals101 4 points5 points  (2 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          That Elliot Rodgers kid was messed up. He had nothing to do with TRP. Instead he was subscribed to PUAHate - he hated guys who tried to improve their game.

          Moreover, TRP teaches you that life isn't fair but you have to make the best of what you've got - if you fail, dust yourself off, learn from the experience and keep trying.

          This was the exact opposite of what Rodgers thought - he hated women who rejected him and he hated men that were successful with those women.

          In the major media outlets, when they try to associate Rodgers with TRP it shows either their ignorance or their dishonesty.

          [–]FallenHighSchoolJock -1 points0 points  (1 child)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          Yah but Elliot Rodger revealed what modern society does to men.

          [–]signals101 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          You should watch the amazing atheists video on that kid. He was messed up all on his own. Society did very little to him.

          [–]lurkeryouredumb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          women cannot stand the idea of men getting together like this and discussing what we do

          Exactly.

          I was a lurker for a loooooong time before I made an account (ironically, to reply to an attention-grubbing woman's comments) and having been all over reddit and being maybe a hair older than the rest of the Red Pill population I've experienced only the finest in female double-standards.

          Feminism and modern society have given bitches (and I use that term pragmatically) far too many breaks, so much so that there are very few safe spaces for men these days... we're practically an endangered species in the West.

          The worst thing for feminized culture is a place for men to actually stand together to discuss it and to fight back against it.

          [–]LAMFF 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          Hear fucking hear, redpillschool, you old son of a bitch! Thank you for saying the things I am too stupid and lazy to articulate. It's a new level of consciousness boys, better buy in now while the gettin' is good before it is too late. Peace and love, much respec!

          [–]SerSibs -3 points-2 points  (30 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          As an outside observer who just discovered the red pill yesterday, I'm confused about what the /r/redpill really wants. The goals for /r/theredpill are a bit vague. There isn't a test that anyone can do to tell if goal was achieved.

          Say your goal is "How do I ensure a future with maximum prospects?" or "How do I protect myself as a man?". How would someone know that this goal has been actualized?

          I can see people talk about how much better they feel and how much confidence and self-esteem they have while using the RP, but those things don't equate to real world results.

          For example, a good goal would be observable by other people. "I want two of my children through college." "I want to form a relationship that will last the rest of my life." or "I want to have sex with 5 people by the end of the year."

          True self-improvement has to have well-defined and observable goals. There has to be a way to know that you got there.

          To have a "sexual strategy" to solve a problem, the problem has to be well-defined, otherwise it is just a hammer looking for a nail.

          [–]TheSKSpecial 14 points15 points  (8 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          Say your goal is "How do I ensure a future with maximum prospects?" or "How do I protect myself as a man?". How would someone know that this goal has been actualized?

          Simple. Do you feel like you have maximum prospects? Do you feel like you are better protected than you were when you started?

          If so, good. You reached your goal. Make a new one. If not, you're not there yet. Keep going.

          There is no RP "finish line".

          [–]2 Mredpillschool[S] 13 points14 points  (4 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          The goal of having 2 children get through college first poses the question: Can I have two children safely? Do I want two children? Will that make me happy?

          Of course these are questions everybody has to answer for themselves. We're not purporting to have those answers, nor are we suggesting there's a right or wrong answer to these questions. We're an open discussion about strategy that helps you learn how to answer them for yourself.

          So yes, make goals. Make them well defined. No problem with that.

          [–]SerSibs -5 points-4 points  (3 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          There exist some problems where being a beta or being manipulated is the ideal solution for a problem. I feel the red pill is limiting the solution without agreeing on a problem.

          [–]TheSKSpecial 10 points11 points  (1 child)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          Ideal for whom is the question.

          Most men here thought being a beta and being manipulated was the ideal solution that would result in happy relationships and marriages. "Happy wife, happy life", "treat her like she's special", "all girls want a nice, sensitive, caring guy", etc.

          Then reality ensued and kicked them square in the sack. Maybe they were cheated on. Maybe they got divorced. Maybe after the 20th time the girl they thought "being nice" would attract cried on their shoulder about men being "assholes" before running straight into the arms of another one, something happened that brought these men here. Being beta and being manipulated didn't work for them.

          So maybe being a beta or being manipulated is an ideal solution for a problem somewhere, but sexual relationships aren't it.

          [–]2 Mredpillschool[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          Being in denial is as ideal of a goal as being in denial about failing to reach a goal.

          [–]that_czech_dude 8 points9 points  (2 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          True self-improvement has to have well-defined and observable goals. There has to be a way to know that you got there.

          Well you defined yourself a framework and methology for your life goals. Good for you.

          The goals for /r/theredpill are a bit vague

          RP's sexual strategies, tactics, hints -- those are just tools. You are free human. You can use them, or not. It's up to you.

          RP gives you support, know-how and know-why, guidance and camaraderie. But your life mission, your shit is entirely yours. RP doesn't give you any goals whatsoever.

          [–]3rdweal 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          Have a look at the sidebar, this is addressed in the last link under "Required Theory Reading"

          [–]harkrank 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          See it as beneficial discussion for men who are on the same wavelength.

          If I'm with a mindset that fits mostly with the people on this sub, I'll take their advice much more seriously in all matters. If you limit the discussion to strictly defined problems and goals you won't have much worthwhile discussion.

          [–]noblepaladin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          The point is TRP is not a movement. TRP does not have any goals. We do not recruit (membership only increases when other subreddits like to TRP). We do not try to influence how the rest of society behaves, we only observe and comment on it. We have no influence anyways, 60k subscribers is nothing, and only a tiny fraction of them are active.

          TRP is simply here for people to discuss stuff without political correctness clouding things. People can set their own measurable, well defined goals.

          [–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          That's not necessarily the case. Look at the bulk of academic research. It's knowledge for knowledges' sake. Most new discoveries about some minor activity of a novel protein isn't discovered with an endgame in mind. It's discovered so that at some later point in time someone might use that information to further a goal.

          That's precisely what TRP knowledge amounts to. "Here is how the world actually works" is what we offer, you can use that as you need to better pursue your goals.

          [–]52576078 0 points1 point  (2 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          Why is everyone down-voting this guy? He's only trying to understand, and asking some questions. Since when are questions a problem?

          [–]1 Endorsed Contributorjsl2837 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          He's at -3. It's just token downvoting to show that his comment is noise, and not part of the signal. Actual, malicious trolls get reported and banned.

          He asked a fair question, but this is not the sub for debating whether the red pill has any value at all.

          We have an "Ask TRP" flair for questions about red pill theory, and we have /r/AskTRP for personalized advice.

          Arguments against the red pill belong in /r/PurplePillDebate.

          Read this thread which goes into the reason why we have a low tolerance for dissent in this sub:

          http://redditlog.com/snapshots/828913

          Pay attention to the comment by MachiavellianRed (one of our mods) in reply to another poster.

          I'll quote the part that is relevant:

          You have a problem with TRP? Post it in purple pill and the red pillers who can be fucked to deal with your psychological and emotional issues in regards to your perception of the red pill will attempt to waste their oxygen in trying to have some semblance of a rational debate with you whilst you cling to notions like "egalitarianism" and the assumption that it is a more noble and supreme way of life, despite its delusion versus TRP.

          Claiming "censorship" for not being allowed to express views that society already expresses and is the reason TRP even exists to begin with by rejecting these notions is pathetic. TRP is censored in society, allowing people to infiltrate it with BP ideas would only sabotage it, the BP voices are far more in number than the RP ones as TRP is reactionary to radical feminism and the decline of masculinity, so in essence BP ideas are de facto in our societies, RP ideas are fringe/traditionalist.

          If you allow BPers to turn the red pill into a debate sub rather than an improvement sub, much of the RP content will be buried by BP ideas and then pop the red pill is no more, congratulations, you've committed philosophical genocide. Your claim is your right to freedom of speech is more important than anything else and that the suppression/dilution/active challenging of RP ideas which would effectively undermine it should be allowed because to you, not being censored is more important than protecting a fledging philosophy from being allowed to communicate its own ideas within its own ranks.

          Oh the irony, allowing you to subvert the sub with a persistent line of questioning, which easily and often becomes aggressive and digressive in nature would effectively be censoring the RP by hampering its ability to perpetuate itself.

          Effectively we have no time to debate we're here to teach and you can pick and choose what you like. You don't go into a Muslim mosque to undermine Islam or a Jewish synagogue to argue about Judaism, or a feminist club to call feminism bullshit. The people there have a set of beliefs, it is assumed if you are there then you do too. If you want to turn everything into a debating society and take up everyone's time with the debate process, your flagrant contempt for the ideas shared via the academic antagonism of constant debate and interrogative lines of questioning will not be tolerated and you will find yourself cast out.

          The person on the attack (asking the questions) takes the mighty position of assuming their disbelief must be placated. Our policy is if you don't like or believe in the shit we say, then fuckoff and leave us to get on with what we're doing, we don't try to recruit or get people to join us, we let the things we teach speak for themselves. If it works for you and you believe in it as a result, fucking great. If you don't? We don't care. If we always have to justify ourselves to your intellectual whims, it makes us seem like we have something to answer for and that we need to placate you, which we don't. Our policy of not doing this, and silencing people who persistently ask such questions in order to undermine the sub is a necessary evil, censorship of such characters is a lesser evil than allowing these people to overrun the sub with their "concern" and their "doubt" and their semantic academic ponderings and aggressive conceited pedantry hidden by nothing but a veil of sophistication.

          Calling TRP a cult is a ridiculous strawman based on faulty deduction which doesn't even look at the context for why TRP operates in the way that it operates, if it was tolerant of opposing views, it would become diluted and would not continue to exist. Respect its integrity and right to express itself without subversion, rather than demanding your right to free speech supersede a minority groups right to collectively exercise their own freedom of expression. When it comes to minority ideas being challenged by collectively held ideas, the minority idea must be protected more in order to allow it to flourish, otherwise by sheer numbers the collectively held ideas will crush the minority ideas.

          This my friends is why TRP censors dissent in the main sub. If you have an honest question/confusion about TRP, that is why /r/asktrp was invented.

          [–]52576078 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

          Ah, good. Thanks for clarifying. I wasn't aware of any of that. I guess I better start reading that sidebar. :-)