all 60 comments

[–]imeneo 45 points46 points  (7 children)

Reading this as someone who starts college in 5 days, it is now obvious how easily high school can fuck up your mindset. It does not get screwed beyond repair, of course, but when you learn the true male/female dynamic you reconsider past female interactions and see the mistakes before your eyes.

[–]Lil_Dick_McFarts 18 points19 points  (3 children)

yeah but you can re-invent yourself in college. every time you move you can be whoever you want to be.

[–]CloakedOrchid 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Hell, you can re-invent yourself every year in college, or even every semester; the month-long winter breaks commonly afforded to undergrads provide plenty of time to get the ball rolling on fixing shit that's broken or adding something new.

I'm about to wrap up undergrad, and I've been repeatedly told stuff like, "You look different every time I see you," because I'm constantly growing and building myself. I think college is a perfect time to aggressively mold yourself.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)


    [–]CloakedOrchid 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    And there's the difference between the people who say "college is the best part of your life" and those of us who just see it as another step forward. So many people claim that college helps prepare them for adult life, yet they do nothing to actually plan ahead. They don't cook for themselves, they wear sweats to class, they neglect their health, and they maintain schedules and lifestyles that are totally unsustainable in real life.

    [–]lrdByron 14 points15 points  (2 children)

    Dude, you are at the perfect age to start learning this shit.

    [–]imeneo 16 points17 points  (1 child)

    Absolutely. Think about it like this.

    If I had not read the askreddit thread "what is the worst subreddit?" a month or so ago, and then proceeded to not go over to /r/theredpill to see what the big deal was and then not read the sidebar, well, I predict the next couple years of my life would be going a little differently. Thankfully I had the sense to go and evaluate it myself.

    [–]LongSchlongBanana 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    This is what happened to me as well. Had an irrational hate/despise for this subreddit even though I did not know what it was about, everyone just hated it so I thought it was bad. Group think.

    After seeing something similar about how absolutely shitty this place is I decided to check it out and I came back. Now I visit every day and it's extremely interesting and I do not regret it. This place actually changed my life.

    [–]AlphaXpipubs 14 points15 points  (2 children)

    Great analogy and you are right on about the mental development and challenges/qualifiers the Alpha uses and how it is a cue to women.

    I do want to point out one thing - If you are "Bob", you can learn Alpha. Learning game, alpha traits, etc. and then forcing yourself to consciously watch the reactions of the females and you can develop those traits.

    The most empowering thing a man can do is tell a woman "no" - not in a mean way, but in a "no, i would rather do x."

    [–]LibertarianLibertine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Yeah without the part about being able to change, this sounds rather depressing. I'm definitely less of a Bob than I was 5 years ago, but I only found the RP 3 months ago or something, so there's still plenty of room for improvement.

    [–]let_terror_reign 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    Post is great. But it's even more awesome that someone bothered to sift through all the questions and bring some props to those who do come over there a bunch. Good work, OP

    [–]rubixpubez 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    fuck man this brought back the feels of my youth

    [–][deleted]  (5 children)


      [–]confuseacatlmtd 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      Same here. Been on here a few weeks but was already well on my way to changing. Growing up I lived with 6 woman and no men. I was naturally very alpha and reaped the rewards when I behaved in such a way, but whenever I did I would get punished very harshly and conditioned to not show it anymore. I am still working to retrain myself back to my natural instincts.

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)


        [–]confuseacatlmtd 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        This is awesome! I would love to set this up to play on someones sex music playlist as a prank though. Buddy's making out with a girl, turns on some music, then they hear, "If you are going to try something, go ALL the way."

        [–]1redpillbanana 7 points8 points  (0 children)

        Excellent analysis. This could be titled, "Evolution of an alpha, de-evolution of a beta."

        [–]BFMCBeaner 7 points8 points  (3 children)

        I was a mixed up ball of Red and Blue way back in high school. I grew up on my grandparents farm in the hills of Tennessee but when we moved to Georgia in high school and daddy had a huge hog operation and I drove a beat up horse shit covered 73 ford pickup while I went to school with nothing but rich preppy kids, I wasn't too popular. I was alpha leader of the nerds and geeks (since I was less nerdy than them whereas I fished and hunted, carried guns everywhere I went, was built from throwing 100 lb sacks of hog feed and shit) I had all the band geek chicks and nerd chick tripping all over me. They're what I banged even though it wasn't what I wanted. I wanted the hot preppy chicks who wouldn't give me the time of day other than keep me orbiting for answers in class. I swear one chick wouldn't have made it through HS if it wasn't for me giving her everything. I realize that now 22 years later and shake my damn head at my stupidity.

        Was a lot of the same in College at Auburn University. wasn't until I quit school, to take care of my grandparents farm in Tennessee while my grandpa was dying and later joining the Army that I got my alpha back and realized what a bitch I had become.

        [–]MartialWay 2 points3 points  (2 children)

        That was one of the manlier stories I've read in a while. I sprouted 3 chest hairs just reading it.

        [–]BFMCBeaner 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Well, I think a lot of us have the similar experiences. I get that some have been fed the blue pill since they were small and as adults realize it. When it came to the chicks i was hot after though I was a straight Blue pill orbiter sucker all the while knocking out the geek chicks who were easy pickings to get some rocks off.

        [–]yeahweewee 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        i was a fat gifted program student in highschool, and beginning of college/end of high school i was benching 305 and lost most of the weight, if it wasn't for red pill i never would of realized anything and just assume looks didn't matter for women as i still wasn't that successful(i'd act like a dick when i was drunk and assumed it was just luck afterwards) just like bob

        seeing it written out so clearly really puts it in perspective for me, thanks man, excellent post

        [–][deleted]  (6 children)


          [–]Thomas_Crapper 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          Not quite. Think about if Alan were average looking but was the football star and on his way to Alabama. Or, his high school band was taking off and he was a local rock star. It's what his looks brought him that got him laid. Social Proof. In other words, he was popular with the girls.

          In Bob's head, he is thinking well Alan is just good looking so that's why he's get's the chicks. This is true. But it is the validation that the girls get from all the other girls, that is the reason Alan gets so many of them. If Alan were good looking but a totally inept outcast who wore batman pajamas to school, he would be getting no pussy.

          Good looks are part of your SMV but only a small part. Understand what true Social Proof is and do the everything in your control to raise your SMV.

          [–]1 Endorsed Contributorjsl2837 1 point2 points  (3 children)

          the lack of spontaneous female attention in your early life will make you adopt beta behavior.

          Natural selection in action.

          Facial aesthetics definitely plays a role in early sexual selection, as does height and overall looks.

          Furthermore: Handsome natural alphas like Alan tend to inherit their facial symmetry from their alpha fathers. Therefore his mother is highly likely to be an attractive woman with good mothering instincts (or else alpha Dad would have said, "Next!" when he was dating her).

          This is important in the context of the 'nature vs nurture' debate, because here we see 'nature' predicting 'nurture' to some degree -- these are not wholly independent of each other, as one might assume.

          It's really the middle-of-the-road types, the delta males, who are the most interesting, because they could swing either way depending on how they are brought up. The majority of males are deltas -- average height, average looks, average intelligence. Given a good family environment, they can learn to play the game well, although not as well as the natural alphas. Given a bad family environment (see /r/RaisedByNarcissists), they become gammas or even omegas.

          So I think facial aesthetics are important, but nonetheless there is still a very large degree of unpredictability if we are talking about "most men", because there's lots of other factors that can influence sexual attractiveness. Which is why learning and practicing Game is important, even if it may not -- it cannot -- save everyone.

          Here's a rather interesting article I read yesterday, which supports the case that facial aesthetics play an important role.

          Body odor and subconscious human sexual attraction

          Research has shown that certain body odors are connected to human sexual attraction.[1][2] Both fluctuating asymmetry (FA)[3] and the human leukocyte antigen (HLA)[4] are connected to scent. HLA is the human version of the major histocompatibility complex (MHC), a protein complex that plays a role in an individual’s immunities and self- versus nonself-recognition.[5] FA affects body symmetry, which in turn affects body size and stress tolerance.[3] Studies have not suggested that one scent caused by a particular HLA is more attractive to all individuals, but they have demonstrated attraction between individuals of certain HLA types.[6] Research has also shown that the scent of a low FA person is universally more attractive,[3] and that facial attractiveness is connected to attractiveness of scent.[7]

          Scent and sexual attraction

          Through scent, humans can subconsciously tell if a potential mate will pass on favorable traits to their offspring[citation needed]. Research on human mating has found that the effect of scent on males and on females differs.[8] Part of this difference is caused by the different motives each gender holds for mating. Males, in order to pass on genes, subconsciously notice and are attracted to traits that indicate fertility in females, such as a voice of higher pitch, a specific hip-to-waist ratio, and a certain body odor. Evolutionarily, females have two main motives for mating: to pass on genes and to find a partner who can provide adequate support for herself and future offspring. As a female reaches the fertile stage of her menstrual cycle, the desire to pass on favorable traits to offspring gains more importance and the female becomes more attracted than usual to males with favorable traits.[8] Many such traits are subliminally detected through scent.[1]

          [–]tony_douglas 0 points1 point  (2 children)

          Thanks for actually posting scientific evidence... TRP is generally filled with posts like the OPs bt provide no tangible evidence.

          For all the looks doubters, read above. Scent is associate with testosterone levels ----> hence why is you are low T you are going to struggle mightily with all women.

          [–]hepatosplenomegaly 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Ever since I started supplementing T I have been told I smell good, especially right after a workout. Even I have noticed a difference in how my sweaty shirt smells after I workout. It doesn't smell good or bad to me, just different.

          Women are genetically programmed to respond sexually to high testosterone males, that's all there is to it. Testosterone affects your facial aesthetics, body type, and attitude all in a way that is attractive to women. I wouldn't be surprised if they could smell its metabolites in your sweat as well.

          Much of TRP advice is learning how to emulate the look and behavior of high testosterone males.

          An attractive male face is a symmetrical face with signs of exposure to high levels of androgens It's possible the single best investment you can make in your SMV is altering your face to look that way.

          If you weren't exposed to high levels of androgens as an adolescent, you won't have alpha features no matter what you do as an adult, short of surgery. One exception: you can actually alter your face in this manner by using anabolic androgenic steroids, trenbolone is noted for this especially. Personally I just do physiologic level testosterone. It's gained me 30 lbs of muscles, but I can't say it has changed my face much at all, then again my adolescence is long behind me.

          [–]tony_douglas 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Couple questions as I am fairly sure Im low testosterone and have been looking to supplement for a while now. 1. how old are you.. 2. how do you supplement -- through clinic or medical or lifting clique etc

          Have you seen a noticeable difference yourself with just physiologic test with respect to the above details --- ie girls more pro-active towards you etc.

          [–]cntthnko1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Lol, no. I was and am very good looking and yet i have nothing to show for it due to lack of proper upbringing. Shitty job, shitty social life, shitty relationships in general, shitty daily life, shitty everything, but i do recognize the changes after RP. Not significant whatsoever but even the slightest leg up will make life very easy for me. Look at it this way, i dont approach the girls, they approach me; yet i still cant pull shit because of total lack of experience.

          I have the looks but no SMV and that is what Alan has, SMV.

          [–]BluepillProfessor 5 points6 points  (2 children)

          The old nature/nurture argument. OK I am in.

          It is not just that girls learn in High School how an Alpha acts. I think this is hard wired into their brains that aloof-IDGAF and Dark Triad are traits of THE VILLAGE BIG MAN OR AT LEAST THE BAD ASS GUY IN THE TRIBE. So psychopathic/narcissistic (don't care about you or anybody else but myself) and Machiavellian (I am the one issuing the orders here) are inherently attractive to women.

          Why? Because the women who fucked those guys had more offspring that survived. This goes well past High School all the way to 100's of thousands if not millions of years of evolution.

          [–]yeahweewee 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          yeah recent study shows that you can teach mice to be afraid of smells and there offspring will be automatically afraid of the same smells, it makes you wonder what else can be passed on, i.e alpha traits

          [–]GMaharris 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          Fantastic and well written post. Unfortunately all too familiar from my old high school and college days.

          [–]nophoney 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          Half way through I started reading this in David Attenborough's voice. Great post. I still have a lot of unlearning to do.

          [–]tylertgbh 4 points5 points  (3 children)

          So, how does a 'bob the beta' (who is newly physically attractive in his young 20s) gain confidence in bed having missed that trial period "Alan" went through in his mid teens? The women expect him to know what he's doing, and will gossip if he sucks in bed. How do you get experience having sex without the desirable girls(or girls in your social group) gossiping that you suck, and without getting a reputation for hooking up with low SMV girls?

          [–]waynebradysworld 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          If it is important to you, you will be fine. Most people who suck in bed just lack any self awareness and/or don't give a shit.

          Also, just because you nut doesn't mean it's over. Either go again right after or take a short break if you need to.

          [–]robesta 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          First off, I love your post. Its easy to understand and weaves a lot of TRP concepts within it. That said, I agree with /u/bluepillprofesssor that its overly simplistic and doesn't account for nature enough.

          I have fairly low natural test levels. I joined TRP while still being natty. Since then I got on Test replacement therapy and frame became less of a chore to maintain and I became pretty naturally alpha. I got on a cycle with higher test this summer and now I'm like a raging alpha and it's almost impossible to lose frame. I stopped giving a fuck.

          The point I'm making is that I believe high test men are natural alphas. TRP frame is something they achieve naturally through their inner masculinity. Nurture may matter somewhat, but having high test makes you have awesome frame, external factors really don't matter.

          [–]redbluerage 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          This is what God put you on Earth to write my friend. You have simply laid out what so any of us try and fail to vocalise. Bravo and Thankyou

          [–]Mans_Right_To_Choose 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          I read your original post and thought it was so good that it belonged in the sidebar as a "newbie primer" document.

          Then I got scared that you were just copy/pasting something already from the sidebar and I'd look like a fool for saying it.

          Either way, I'm glad you reproduced it here. Top shelf post, man.

          [–]bgat79 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          :his mental image is much worse than he thinks:

          It took me an embarrassingly long time to discover that how I thought others viewed me was a minuscule problem compared to how I viewed myself.

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)


            [–][deleted]  (1 child)


              [–]RulerZod 1 point2 points  (2 children)

              Alan the Alpha lol. Two and a half men that's hysterical

              [–][deleted]  (1 child)


                [–]RulerZod 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                No he's the ultimate epitome of Beta. Most of the shows comedic value is watching him fail for years, sad really.

                [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Great post. Very well done and positive.

                [–]Nulyfe2K14 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                As somebody who was born a bob, learned the ropes by watching his natural alpha friends and then read 'the game' and saw it all come together I wholeheartedly endorse this post. Im 3 months into the red pill sub but had an unknown headstart that I'm grateful for each day.

                [–]ThanksForNothin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                I have to say this post is brilliant. And sadly I must admit that Once I started reading about Bob, I quickly realized that all of that is exactly how I was in high school. I was Bob the beta almost word for word, and that is a sad realization to me. I only wish I could go back and swallow the red pill before I started my freshman year. (I am 20 now and going into my third semester.) I have been slowly opening my mind to the red pill and I have decided to swallow it. I don't want to be so mis-wired as OP put it. I want to become an Alpha. Thank you for posting this. It has opened my eyes

                [–]gideonrakthor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                My life has henceforth been changed due to this and a few other reads on RP. Just wanted to document it somewhere.

                [–]TianWoXue 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                As a semi-attractive Alpha. I fall somewhere in-between.

                What sucks is I got brain-washed by being raised by mom and her best friend. Being the only child around women all the time will tend to do that. The stuff that I knew was right got overwritten as a teen, and it's taken 2 decades and one failed marriage to recover.

                I did not know about the asktrp. Thx for the tip.

                [–]djvita 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                it's about putting yourself first, and women who get hurt about not getting their way call you an asshole as a shit test.

                [–]TheWorldToCome -1 points0 points  (10 children)

                tldr: If you want to be successful with women be born with good facial aesthetics.

                [–]chakravanti93 -1 points0 points  (7 children)


                Looks < Game

                Looks help you learn the kind of game no one teaches.

                [–]TheWorldToCome 0 points1 point  (6 children)

                U are not aware. Guy fakes as a male model on Tinder to get girls. Says the most ridiculous stuff to them but they wanna fuk him anyways. He has no 'game' but all the sloots want his D


                [–]vzhu 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Tinder does not equate IRL interactions. Of course a male model is going to outperform an AFC by a significant margin in that scenario.

                When you remove variables such as social standing (pre-selection, social group hierarchies), body language, tone, environmental context (bookshop/club/bus stop) and setting from your interaction naturally you would be judged on your appearance. Especially when it comes to online dating and related social media.

                Tinder is shit compared to day/night game as sending out a thousand resumes is shit compared to doing some proper networking.

                [–]chakravanti93 -2 points-1 points  (4 children)

                Looks might mean you don't need game but game still trumps looks.

                [–]TheWorldToCome 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                You sound like a blue pill PUA loser brah, u need to live in the real world. Obv confidence and shit is important, but if ur like a 9/10 facial looks guy u can get away with anything and have girls wanting to get with u.

                Now if ur on the same level in looks as another dude then 'game' might play a role in winning a girl over. But its biology brah, girls want to have sex with physically attractive mates.

                [–]chakravanti93 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                Seriously dude? I'm trying to help you. Around here we have harsh truths for you to confront but past them is an uplifting message. You want to fuck around, deny responsibility and throw insults at me? Go figure it out for yourself.

                [–]tony_douglas 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                lol dude keep living in your delusional world. First step is to maximize your looks --- lifting, juice, postural surgery if you need it etc.

                Second is to develop status -- professional, social etc.

                Third is to just be yourself in social/professional setting --> girls will want to bang

                "game" is a myth especially for the average redditor, who is worse looking that the average american man.... most of the posts on "game" are posturing by losers who get 2/10 girls but brag that they are 8s or 9s. Anyone with real world experience knows those types of girls want either guys who are on the same level as them lookswise or add value in some other TANGIBLE way --- status/fame, money, or in very very rare cases emotionally. "game" does not assist with any of those aspects... at best it provides a framework for socially retarded man children to feel they are making progress.

                [–]chakravanti93 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Talk more shit. I mean, you're really selling yourself here. The wit and charisma are just magnetic.

                [–]tony_douglas -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

                This post is so unbelievably simplistic...

                Bob can benefit from mannerisms because he has grown into his own and is a "hunk". 99% of guys on reddit do not become "hunks" after years of lifting. Alan is not winning purely because of his mannerisms... he is the jock who all the girls always wanted and still implicitly want.

                The most misleading advice here is that pursuing girls should remain the forefront of Bob's life even after he has missed the opportunity when pursuing women was riskless ie teen and college years. Around age 23 women start to care exponentially more about status. Finance guys who have REPUTATION and look like money will pull regardless of their game.

                Reality is best thing to do if you missed out is go balls deep into professional life.. thats what "alphas" are doing so that they can continue to out-alpha you even after you learn "game".

                [–][deleted]  (2 children)