all 171 comments

[–]All__fun 149 points150 points  (21 children)

This hurts.

But it is the truth...

[–]Red_King_Rising 67 points68 points  (14 children)

Despite my name, deep down I think I am too old to try to pull all of that off. I've been "alpha" or whatever at times in the past, but life dealt some harsh blows that took me down to some dark places. I'm only now starting to come out of that hole and I barely made it out without sticking a gun in my mouth. It will take a few years to get rehabed from old injuries and get in shape. It will cost money that I don't have. My wardrobe is of the finest second hand and generic box store variety. My car and living situation reflect a barely above poverty line existence where years ago they were firmly middle class. By the time I get my life on track the way I want it, women, especially young women won't be interested in me and I'll probably will feel the same about them. Anything under 28 is child to me now and I will never get married.

No, I won't be in the top 20%. All I want now is to just respect myself and enjoy my life and if women come along, fine. If not, fine. I'm trying to improving over time to be the man I always wanted to be before I die. At 50+ notches I've had my fair share of women.

My goals are financial and health and self respect. I am starting at a negative on my finances and I'm way behind on health, but the red pill and making moves in a positive direction has done wonders for my self respect and it's continues to inspire me to stay focused on those goals. Not for pussy, but so I can feel like me again. In control of myself and my life.

[–]miles37 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Hey, you can work out well without spending any money. You can do great by running, including sprinting, jumping etc, and doing strength training with bodyweight, by being creative about it, e.g: Doing unbalanced or one-leg squats, doing unbalanced (i.e. you put more weight on one side) or one-armed pushups, pull-ups, again unbalanced 'rows' by hanging from a swing/goalpost/tree etc, i.e. you use one arm to pull yourself up and the other just to stabilise yourself , you can do hanging leg raises, dips on railings that go at right angles; one leg calf raises on edge of a step for full ROM (using some wall or railing to stabilise yourself); pike pushups where you make the fullest ROM you can (you can get your hands down to your chest), it's a good shoulder exercise; and you can just pick up any sand bag or heavy rock or something to exercise your spinal/back-core muscles by bending over and standing up repeatedly with it held in front of you (most people neglect these muscles, and you're probably weak there too so start easy); another one you can do is for your side-core muscles (obliques), putting your feet up on a bench on your side and your one arm on the ground and raise your hips up and down relative to the ground (left and right relative to your body).

This way you also get fresh air, and vitamin D which helps specifically with test as well as general health. You can also meet people including women whilst you're working out outside.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]TekkomanKingz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I also became in decent shape starting at home. Depends on genetics but you'd be surprised what you can accomplish with simple push-ups, pull-ups, sit-ups etc. The only downside is the monotony so you DO need something to distract yourself with such as reality TV while exerting yourself using simple body weight exercises.

    [–]The_Americano 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Such an inspirational reply, thank you for sharing. I know it's not easy... Best of luck in your journey back to the top!

    [–]fullanalpanic 5 points6 points  (2 children)

    The fact that you're so self-aware puts you above a lot of people I know.

    People don't talk much about this around here but (even if you did plan on getting married), realize that a lot of highly successful people don't really go for 10s as lifetime partners because most times these suitors are riding on their good looks. Being pretty ultimately does not add any real value to the relationship. Once their looks fade, they bring nothing else to the table. They end up being money sinks.

    I think you're on the right track in being serious about your finances. The women will naturally gravitate to you once your burdens are lifted. Good luck.

    [–]Red_King_Rising 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    I have a lot of married friends. Some with really good wives who aren't 7-10s but they are good people. They make good homes, they are too high maintence and they appreciate having a good man. The redpill can preach that all women are like that and at some level they all are but everyday there are men married to decent women. I'm not the marrying type. I tried it before. It's not for me. I have no problems being alone and I realize that besides a sexual connection, there's not much else I need from a woman. It would be nice to have someone to cook and clean, but I'm pretty good at that. I don't want more children. A wife cannot be a true confidant. There's no point in getting married for me unless I meet some mythical unicorn.

    [–]TekkomanKingz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    There's no point in getting married for me unless I meet some mythical unicorn.

    You haven't been to South East Asia yet I presume...

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–]Red_King_Rising 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Get it done. I spent my 30s struggling to survive. It sucked. Right now I have nothing but time so I'm writing a book that I've been meaning to write for some time. I'm also reading the books and ebooks that I've had for ever. Use this time to do something worthwhile.

      [–]Blake55 -1 points0 points  (3 children)

      Can you elaborate on what happened?

      [–]Red_King_Rising 2 points3 points  (2 children)

      Divorce. The economy. Lost my corporate job. Side business failed. Jailed for back child support. Friends abandoned me. Three years unemployed doing jobs under the table. Started my career over at entry level. Child support rapes my check monthly. One step above entry level now at 40something. Starting to be able to pay my bills and spend time with my daughter.

      I need rehab for back, shoulder and knee problems. Right now living check to check, I don't have money for rehab. Trying to do my own using online resources but I don't know if what I'm doing will help or hurt. I need professional rehab therapy for my shoulder, there is pain and a limited range of motion. Makes exercising hard. I'm about 40lbs overweight. Keto/Paleo is expensive. Rice and beans are cheap. Counting calories. Down 18lbs.

      [–]just_dew_it 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      The fact that you made it through all that says a lot about your character. Many guys would've just pussied out on life - you didn't.

      Are you familiar with Stoic philosophy? I'd recommend the Meditations by Marcus Aurelius to you, that book helped me to overcome some serious problems in the past.

      [–]TekkomanKingz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Damn. Perfect example you can have it all and wake up the next morning with absolutely nothing in this country. For Men there really is no safety net. So many guys 40+ are having to start over. This is a fairly common occurrence these days and a sign of the times. There just has to be a better life out there for all of us.

      If you didn't get divorced and have to pay child support you might still be relatively comfortable even after losing both your corporate job and side business. Maybe you could even afford to pay for some light rehab. Of course nobody cares about our health or living standards. It's all about the women and children.

      [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      That's what I love about this sub, no holding back on the harsh truth.

      [–]meyamoben 4 points5 points  (1 child)

      It's not an easy pill to swallow....

      [–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      If everyone could swallow it 100% of the men would be in the top 20% of men according to women.

      [–]galaxy_man33 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Same feeling. Its almost like i've subconsciously needed this post for a little while now.

      FYI, I've come a long way....but,

      LTR betaness set in slightly (8mths) - My frame has been solid though, gym progress is stagnant (shldr injury/work hours) and I guess I'm going to do a little purge of my wardrobe this week b/c of this post haha

      BTW, career (Civil Engr) has been demanding recently so its affecting my ideal daily routine but I have figured it's only going to get worse as I gain responsibility.

      QUESTION for some of the older RP guys, how has long term job stress effected you over the years? My job is very deadline based so Ill have weeks that I work 65 hours busting my ass and some where I can dick off and leave early to hit the gym/relax/etc. at a better time then another period with a tough deadline, and so on.

      [–]I_trp 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      how has long term job stress effected you over the years?

      Once I gained the mindset that I work to live, not live to work, the balance came naturally. There is ALWAYS enough time to work out...always. And at 55+, I feel better and more in control of my life than I ever have.

      [–]1IVIaskerade -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

      Ignorance is bliss. Thankfully, sadomasochism.

      [–][deleted] 67 points68 points  (7 children)

      The thing that's holding you back, is that you're improving yourself, but you're not taking risks.

      You won't hit the next tier until you make uncomfortable the norm.

      [–]dropit_reborn 49 points50 points  (5 children)

      I have a very different view on this.

      You're right in that you should be looking for risk, but you should calculate the risks, and cheat like hell.

      Want to start your own business? Stay at your job and build the business up on the side, then make the leap. Have a part-time job and a challenging courseload, and worried about keeping it all up? Drop some classes, work more, save up money for next semester, and don't work as much while you're taking the hard classes.

      Wondering how to balance your two jobs with time at the gym? You're working too hard, either learn a trade or borrow some money and go back to school to learn something lucrative.

      Do not be superman. Be Lex Luthor---stack the deck.

      [–]IrateMollusk 15 points16 points  (3 children)

      I bet you Lex got more pussy than Superman ever did.

      [–]Devinity 10 points11 points  (1 child)

      Clark Kent was purposefully beta.

      [–]IrateMollusk 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      I know but if you were Superman wouldn't you be linin' em up for some costumed rumble tumble? I mean in Injustice he was banging Lois, I'm surprised her womb didn't explode when he climaxed.

      [–]1redpillbanana 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Which is sad because Superman is the ultimate AMOG: https://imgur.com/VxEyOUY

      [–]1TheReason13 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Seconded. For most of my life I've been the kind of man who plans and contemplates aspirations that will never be. The life blood of success is action, the execution of a plan, not the plan itself. Contemplation leads the naturally negative human mind to create doubt, fear of failure is the result. No client base, no capital, no experience, no confidence, no leadership qualities. Your mind is one of convenience and instinct, it is your minds way of detering you from risk situations, DO NOT FEAR.

      FEAR IS THE LOVE KILLER. BETTER A MAN BE DEAD, THAN DWELL ON DREAMS AND FORGET TO LIVE. BETTER A MAN NEVER BE BORN, THAN HIS PLANS LIVE ONLY IN HIS MIND.

      Pro tip: Start small and start in your immediate community, from your home. Advertise your services heavily within your immediate community. You would be surprised how many people prefer a personable alternative to the robotic conventional, plus it builds your experience, client base, confidence, leadership qualities, and generates capital quickly. Use your community as your solid base, Then expand accordingly, if you hit a rough patch you will have your strong base to fall back on.

      [–]1Modified_Hackware[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

      It's both. My post is more aimed at those who are trying, and wondering why they're getting snubbed by higher quality women - time for a reality check.

      Your point stands solid though. If you aren't making approaches or engaging then you'll get nothing, improved or otherwise.

      [–]metallica11 37 points38 points  (8 children)

      I think this is the missing "red pill truth" of the red pill itself. Self Improvement is great thing, but you may not be doing enough self improvement. Sometimes, the amount of self improvement required to make 7/10+ women consistently attracted to you without having to expend serious amounts of efforts is unreasonable for some men. I think this constitutes a subset of the "MGTOW" population - the realization that the only way to attract these types of women is through plastic surgery, height enhancement, becoming famous, becoming a millionaire etc. Past a point you just say F it and live your own life.

      Even after years of self improvement, I have yet to reach the point where I can attract a 7/10. It may be within my reach, but it is going to probably take another 2-3+ years of constant weight lifting to compensate enough for my weak frame and extreme babyface, buying clothes that put me in the top 5% of people who dress, and having the charisma and confidence the top 5% of men possess. This is simply what takes ME to achieve this, since my "base" (which is a function of where I started plus has naturally been gifted to me) is much lower than most men's on here. I have to work extremely hard for the 7/10 but I intend to get there someday. I refuse to MGTOW without completely maximizing myself.

      [–]neszero 12 points13 points  (5 children)

      Exactly. A lot of people here don't consider that no matter how much some guys succeed in improving malleable aspects about themselves, there are some things that are a permanent disadvantage for them (like short stature, or skin problems, or bad teeth, or male pattern baldness, etc). You can definitely compensate for those types of things in other areas, and be as confident as humanly possible, but they are still things at face value that a lot of girls will instantly reject a person for.

      When OP mentioned "knowing that you are the number one on average at a party with 19 other guys," there's a point where some of us here have to recognize that that type of thinking is delusional. I think it's more important to know that if you do have outstanding flaws in some physical capacity, you have to recognize there are other more superficially desirable mates in any given scenario, and being comfortable and confident with yourself and owning those flaws is a stronger strategy than thinking you are king cock in the hen house.

      If you are attractive in every way that a female is looking for, and Red Pill-ing is more about changing your attitude and strategy, then you can likely hit those 9s and 10s that OP is talking about. But there a lot of others that have setbacks that simply are unchangeable, no matter how much lifting, stratigizing, and confidence-building they practice. Sometimes it's better to understand that there IS better than you, and all you can do is own your angle. Own your flaws and don't be delusional. No matter how good you think you are, there is always better.

      [–]juiceperks 5 points6 points  (1 child)

      Or maybe you just need to stop feeling sorry for yourself and start playing the numbers game.

      If you have no fear of rejection then you won't GAF if there are more "gifted" people out there and you will just do you and the results will follow.

      [–]neszero 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I agree, and that's pretty much what I'm saying. Don't feel sorry for yourself, always be confident, and play up all your strengths as much as possible. The only caveat is don't convince yourself that you're the absolute top-of-the-heap as OP suggested if you are clearly not, because, objectively, there is someone better. Having an attitude of delusional grandeur can work against you. Acceptance is part of confidence.

      [–]Indianbro -1 points0 points  (2 children)

      I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish by saying there are "permanent disadvantages" for people. Who gives a fuck about them. They only matter if you make it matter. And the fact that you're saying it matters means its going to be a problem with your game...BECAUSE YOU'RE MAKING IT A PROBLEM. Enough excuses. Mentally masterbating yourself like this will do absolutely nothing for your game to get that '9' (which is funny you even use that scale anymore)

      [–]neszero 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      The permanent disadvantages I mentioned-- that kind of stuff is objective. They are indisputable and observable facts, not things that are open to interpretation. Some guys are shorter. Some guys are uglier. They just have to play that hand and understand the odds are worse for them no matter how much they compensate. Those are facts and it doesn't matter what you think. This isn't "mental masturbation," it's analyzing things without being so insecure that you have to build up a macho-bullshit attitude about yourself.

      The scale I mentioned was a reference to what was originally in OP's post.

      [–]omgimbackagain -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      Everyone has problems and negatives associated with them. It is how you develop around them and actually tackle the issues that is really the only important thing.

      [–]Indianbro 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      I have to work extremely hard for the 7/10 but I intend to get there someday. I refuse to MGTOW without completely maximizing myself.

      The fact that a lot of you on here still use the 1-10 scale just shows that you are shooting yourself in the foot and limiting your gamel. Why would you do that to yourself You are subconsciously telling yourself you can't pull a 7 without "trying hard". So, as a self fulfilling prophecy...yes, you won't be able to pull a "7" without "trying extremely hard." Owen and Julien from RSD both said, "The only way you're going to pull a 10, is if you don't even realize shes a 10 until after you've closed her. There. The level and dexterity of your game doesn't change based on the girl. It stays the same whether shes a 5 or a 7 or a 99. The only thing that changes is how better your game gets from experience in the field.

      [–]metallica11 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Or what if we have started from a mental frame of utmost confidence "I can get a 9/10!, I am good enough!", and got shot down hundreds and hundreds of time yet had success with lower value women and realized we cannot disillusion ourselves since proof through high sample sizes shows otherwise. It's like telling a 4'10" guy that he needs to think he can slam dunk the basketball on the standard court hoop versus the kiddie hoop even though he has failed 1,000 times trying to dunk on the standard hoop and succeeds most of the time on the kiddie hoop. facts are facts.

      I think this same logic applies to women. Thinking you are a 10/10 and keeping your game, no matter what level the woman is at, even if you are a 5/10 is not going to make you land a 10/10 unless you are ridiculously ridiculously ridiculoulsy lucky (she hasn't been laid in 2 years due to being trapped in a marriage and is hot just because she recently lost 50 pounds and happens to be drinking next to you at a bar on her first night out and has no reference point to her real value and ends up doing home with you)

      You are right, it could happen, but it's not your "game" and "personality" that will be doing it.

      [–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

      I'm MGTOW at this point mostly because women are too much work. I never had a high need for intimacy anway so it makes no sense for me to bother with plates or an LTR. If I need to get laid, I can but it's pretty infrequent these days. For the most part I can't be bothered.

      I think TRP helped me to understand why I'm a man going my own way. There are inherent conflicts between what women want and what I'm able to give. I get that a lot more clearly now and I'm more at peace with it than I was before.

      I see a lot of people here who learn about RP and think of it as the key to just spinning a whole bunch of plates. Me, I saw it as an explanation for why I don't want to spin a bunch of plates. I've mostly opted out. I suppose a lot of the way you see it depends on how much you want to have sex. If the answer is "a lot" then TRP has a pretty natural outcome. But if the answer is "not much" then MGTOW is also a pretty natural outcome.

      I do things for me and i cannot figure out why i should do anything differently just to appeal to a woman. So, i don't.

      [–]momosauky 5 points6 points  (16 children)

      Fuck man that shit takes time though. I am dieting and exercising but I need a good year to look even remotely good.

      [–]PlanB_pedofile 11 points12 points  (1 child)

      Then take the good year to do it!

      Trust me, you don't want to be an overnight success.

      Imagine your life as a fire. Do you want to be a flash in the pan that blazes really tall for mere moments but then quickly extinguishes itself leaving behind much intact? Or do you want to be the fire that starts small, continuously grows and grows until everything is engulfed and after consuming every ounce of fuel there is to offer, your embers lasts for ages after your flame dies out?

      [–]digitalmentat 2 points3 points  (7 children)

      This is long term. It's taken me ten years to achieve about a 30% efficacy of my whole life improvement plan. Education, career, body, language, class, dress, etc...

      [–]momosauky 2 points3 points  (3 children)

      You found it to be worth it?

      [–]curious97 14 points15 points  (2 children)

      Well, as a man what else do you have in life?

      Boundless hedonism? Fuck no. Complacency is the worst sin a person can commit.

      [–]momosauky 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      I'll keep on keeping on, thanks for the motivation.

      [–]harkrank -1 points0 points  (2 children)

      You are doing something wrong. If you've been doing something and haven't succeeded in a decade you have to re-evaluate because nothing takes this much time unless it is raising a child or doing something that has an international impact.

      [–]digitalmentat 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      I've built three companies and had one aqcuired. Equivalent to raising a child in terms of time but is a very small part of my overall self-improvement equation, hence the lower ratio.

      [–]harkrank -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      By my definition you've already succeeded. I guess you could look at life itself as a self-improvement mission and then consider yourself at only 30%.

      [–]CaniborrowafeeIing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Nothing wrong in setting up a realistic plan.

      But dont use the plan as an excuse though to put off trying some of TRP material in practise.

      When you feel your SMV has improved enough you get out there m8.

      Its going to be glorious.

      [–]Space-Boy 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      went to the gym for the first time in two-ish years today. Time to start gaining some weight brothers.

      [–]ReddishTablet 13 points14 points  (12 children)

      > tailored to fit you

      Holy hell that's such a difference, if there is any best picture about getting clothes that fit correctly... this is it.

      (He sort of has a bit more confident pose in the right picture though... not sure if it's the clothes, confidence or just forcing it... it just seems like his slouching in the left).

      [–]Casanova-Quinn 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Another good example of proper fit.

      [–]ButterMyBiscuit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I think the sagginess of the shirt causes the appearance of slouching, which is why fit is so important. If you compare the outlines his shoulders are at very similar angles, he's just got his arms spread a bit more in the second picture.

      [–]Juan23Four5 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      The only difference is that his shirt is baring his muscles more and his well-fitting jeans actually show off his lower body.

      It's all about showing the physique that you have. No sense in hiding it under ill-fitting clothes. I finally invested in some really nice jeans last winter. They make my legs look awesome.

      [–]tallwheel 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      Where does one get casual tailored?

      [–]1Modified_Hackware[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      At a tailors.

      Tailoring as an art form is more for suits and what not your google search term is likely "clothes alterations".

      It's cheap. Search "industrial thread injector" on here for more info.

      [–]TheBadGod -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      "Fit is everything."

      Most important lesson I learned when my sales career took me into selling suits.

      [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (5 children)

      I've never recommended it here but I think a lot of TRP folks would like Elliot Hulse's channel on youtube. It's strengthcamp.

      He is heavy into preaching and goes a little off the deep end at times. But he has really helped me to think more about my mind body connection. I was a lifelong sloucher (aka Kyphosis, a condition you will become very familar with if you watch just a few of Elliot's videos). now I never slouch, i have to literally consciously pull my shoulders forward if I want to be kyphotic and hold them there.

      How much this has changed the way i interact with people was not 100% clear to me until someone close pointed out to me that when I used to get in confrontations I would sort of slouch forward (it was my default position anyeay). but now I stand straight and tall shoulders back even when i feel vulnerable because i have trained so long and hard at developing my shoulder girdle in a way that supports it's instantaneous axis of rotation. Or to put it more simply, if you're a sloucher it's both a mental and a physical problem. The physical part of the problem is that your pec minor will be tight and the subscapularis will be weak.

      Check it...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wBTogMlr_c

      Once you work on it for a while it's an interesting question whether the body leads the mind. I do find that in a tense situation the fact that I find myself standing with good posture with my chest out and shoulders back makes me feel more confident irrespective of how good or bad my argument is.

      [–]You_Stupes 3 points4 points  (2 children)

      The broscience is strong with this one

      [–]Iupvoteforknowledge 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      It is but there is no doubt Eliot is a successful, RP man living life on his own terms.

      [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      You've got to come to his channel with a good sense of self already. The parts that are helpful are very helpful and if you are missing those parts you can slot them right into your life seemlessly.

      Posture is a really good example. if you just ignore everything else and only tune back in on the posture it's great advice.

      He goes into some pretty scientific explanations of the mind body connection, training and the CNS. Also lots of just generically good advice on form when doing movements. But also a lot of strongman shit that is a fabulous way to get injured.

      Overall, useful for someone coming to it with a lot of experience and scientific training already. For someone naive...not so much, he is way too preachy and not all of his stuff is solidly based in science...it's like 50/50.

      [–]1wakethfkupneo 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Once you work on it for a while it's an interesting question whether the body leads the mind. I do find that in a tense situation the fact that I find myself standing with good posture with my chest out and shoulders back makes me feel more confident irrespective of how good or bad my argument is.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks-_Mh1QhMc

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I've seen that. I make it a habit to do a fist in the air (ala Rocky Balboa) at the end of every run, sometimes in the middle. I felt silly doing it at first but now I'm like fuck ya'll, I'm the champion.

      [–]bobbybluepill 9 points10 points  (16 children)

      You need to know, not think, that you're number one on average at a party with 19 other guys.

      Bingo. And it's extremely fucking hard if you aren't genetically blessed to be both attractive physically and with your personality.

      I see people posting that this is too much work, etc. Fine. But don't come on TRP and cry about how the HB9 shot you down and ask, "What did I do wrong?" when you know the answer is that you didn't make yourself attractive enough because it was too hard.

      Additionally, if you're trying your very best and just aren't gifted genetically to be that attractive, own it. Proudly fuck the HB7 you pulled and know that you're doing the best work for you. Accept it.

      [–]whystoppnow 0 points1 point  (14 children)

      You can still get the nine with game though.

      [–]1bicepsblastingstud 4 points5 points  (1 child)

      Bullshit. A real 9 does not puck fuck people solely because they have good game.

      A girl who's actually a 9 has the top 10% of men competing for her -- and most of them will have naturally great game.

      edit: goddammit tablet

      [–]NicCageForPresident -4 points-3 points  (11 children)

      Nah, you can't. 9/10's just don't fuck average looking guys.

      [–]whyalwaysm3 7 points8 points  (4 children)

      I will bet any amount of money that you don't get laid a lot or even have a lot of experience with females. PLENTY of 9s and 10s fuck average guys, I can walk into a mall and spot a handful of average guys with hot women within minutes.

      You have a shitty attitude, in your mind you are already defeated.

      [–]NicCageForPresident -1 points0 points  (3 children)

      plenty of average guys are seen in public with hot girls. that doesn't mean they're fucking them.

      The other problem here is that guys are terrible at rating other guys. A guy you'd see as average may be extremely hot to girls.

      and if you want to make bets on my sexual experience, fine, but I've fucked a lot of hot girls in my life.

      [–]whyalwaysm3 -1 points0 points  (2 children)

      Actually I'm one of those guys who's not afraid to judge another guy by looks. I'm very honest if a guy is good looking or not. I know I'm not the worlds hottest man but I know somewhere out there to some girl I'm the worlds hottest man because beauty really is in the eye of the beholder.

      To me, if a guy keeps himself clean, dresses appropriately, and is in decent shape, he's a good looking man. Just think how many guys are slobs who don't keep their faces clean, who wear baggy wrinkled clothes, who don't act socially appropriate, and yet they have women in their life. To me that's the average guy, because seeing a guy who takes care of himself, dresses nice, and knows how to be social is above average to me.

      I don't want to make bets on how many girls you've fucked that are hot. It's the internet bro, I could say the same but how do you prove it. Lol

      [–]NicCageForPresident 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      You just hit on an excellent point when you mentioned the slobbishness that makes someone average. While that may make YOU see him as "average looking", if genetically he is very attractive (strong jaw, bone structure/hip to shoulder ratio, clear olive toned skin, thick stubble) he can still be a 9/10 to girls.

      I used to make this mistake all the time, I'd see a guy and think he was okay looking, and then find out later that girls masturbate to him. We have a tendency as men to misjudge what features are attractive to women. The BEST example is how all the guys in the manosphere said Elliot Rodger was attractive. He most certainly was not. He was probably a 4/10 on a good day, mostly because he looked naturally effeminate/small.

      You won't be seeing dudes with weak jawlines and wide hips/narrow shoulders schmangin 9/10 girls.

      [–]whyalwaysm3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      That's what I'm saying. We as men can't really judge what makes another guy good looking to women. If there is one thing we can agree on it's that women are very hard to predict day to day due to their nature. A guy we might think is ugly, might actually be gorgeous to a 10.

      If you're good looking, you're already halfway there, the other half is being socially smart, dress nice, and be interesting. If you're not good looking, then you have to make up MUCH more for it by being even more interesting than the average guy, dressing up even nicer than the average guy, and making good money won't hurt either.

      These are just my opinions of course based on my 27yrs of experience dealing with females.

      Edit: I also strongly disagree with you saying we won't see dudes with "weak jaw lines, narrow shoulders, wide hips, with 9s and 10s". In fact I see this commonly, and usually these type of guys either have LOTS of money and/or are in a powerful position in their circle. Remember, some women love power even more than what a man looks like.

      [–]Iupvoteforknowledge 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Neil Strauss would like to have a word with you.

      [–]1redpillbanana -1 points0 points  (3 children)

      https://imgur.com/aN70aED

      Flavio Briatore is getting a kick out of your reply.

      [–]NicCageForPresident 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      Flavio Briatore

      Celebrity trumps everything. it's the exception to the rule. And the point I was trying to make was you certainly can't hook 9/10's with 'game'. That's not how attraction works at all. You need to be near their level.

      [–]1redpillbanana -1 points0 points  (1 child)

      This is one example of a guy who got a hot woman without being attractive. Yes, he's famous and very wealthy, but he's pretty damn ugly. Therefore, it proves that women value other characteristics besides attractiveness in a man.

      Addressing your point, it depends on what you define as 'game'. If you're as funny as the best comedians in the world, is that 'game'? If you have a sharp wit and a socially dominating personality, is that 'game'? The line is a bit blurry at that point.

      [–]NicCageForPresident 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      So the problem with the famous-and-wealthy thing is that the girl is still really only interested in the status that comes from being with you. If you are ugly and a celebrity, girls will date/have sex with you because they want your fame to rub off on them too, but they are also incredibly likely to fuck around. Attraction is physical/visual for guys and girls. It's a strategic move to hook up with an ugly rich/famous man, he is a prop.

      [–]harkrank -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

      You ARE genetically blessed. Unless you were born with some strange mutation you are the product of millions of years of evolution. The difference in genetical fitness between you and some random guy from this planet is probably less than 0,00000001%. Environment and beta uprising/programming gives a lot of guys a bad start, but there's nothing wrong with the genetical material.

      [–]the99percent1 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      I live by one moto:

      Do more, be more.

      Start your everyday with a plan or schedule. Spend 5 minutes in the morning to plan your day.

      Allocate 80% of your effort and time into the most pressing task of the day. Do that task first. Don't stop until complete.

      This is the mindset of successful people. They do and do and do. Bit by bit, you will improve, you will become more.

      This is how you rise out of mediocrity and live a life you can only dream of.

      [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

      Very good post. I have been treading water for a while. This summer (which is over now, damn) I wanted to take up cool new hobbies, do NoFap for 90 days, get fit and read more books. I think I did a fair job reading and getting fit but I couldn't devote as much time to taking up new hobbies. I also couldn't get past 30 days with NoFap. I learned that you have to push your limits everyday and can't let up.

      What I learned this summer: Time management and efficiency are key to self improvement. And the key to managing your time is to have motivation. You can never lose motivation.

      [–]CaniborrowafeeIing 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Good news! Winter is even better for picking up some new skills. Join a cooking class, new language or pickup some guitar lessons.

      Summer is what i use to live and experience and winter is where i learn and reflect.

      Also, i have no idea where people get the idea that NoFapping is great for you, its perfectly healthy to polish the 8-ball once a while during the week, infact its proven to release endorphins which helps you relax and stress off.

      Just dont get hooked on porn.

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I generally find that when I don't fap, I have more motivation to go and talk to women. I also feel very confident. I find that not fapping is like harnessing male sexual energy. Women also seem to be attracted to this, speaking from first hand experience. It's almost as if they can sense a full nutsack.

      In terms of Red Pill theory, I believe that masturbating is a very beta thing to do because in our primitive days, only the alphas got access to the females. The other males probably had no choice but to watch and masturbate.

      If you haven't tried NoFap, do a challenge. The results should surprise you.

      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (19 children)

      Nofap is killing me. Can't make it past month one... can a short guy be in top 20% without being rich?

      [–][deleted]  (7 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]BloodyPhallus 4 points5 points  (5 children)

        5'8" isn't short; it's only 1 or 2 inches below the mean.

        [–][deleted]  (4 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]thredditsowaway 2 points3 points  (3 children)

          Statistically, you can be in the top 20% by being just above average in every category. Being in the 45th percentile or whatever in terms of height isn't a big drawback if you're decent aesthetically, get fit, and have good game (plus good provider value if you're going for an LTR).

          Think of it this way: the average dude is above average in half of categories and below average in the other half. That's how averages work. Now think of how many guys you know who are approximately average or above in EVERYTHING? There's your top 20%.

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]thredditsowaway 3 points4 points  (1 child)

            True. I feel like it also has a bit of a diminishing return attached to it. The difference for a "visibly short" guy (say 5'6 and under) adding 3 inches to be a "pretty average" 5'9 would be night and day. The difference for a 5'9 guy moving up to "visibly tall", say 6' somehow would be more subtle. So a guy like Owen probably isn't being dragged down much by his height.

            Another way to say it... going from 12% to 10% body fat will definitely look better, but if you're hiding your body in old painting clothes all the time, you'd get a much bigger return on investment if you bought a few fitted shirts. Your body fat percentage isn't what's killing your SMV, it's your presentation.

            [–][deleted]  (4 children)

            [deleted]

              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              This reminded me on Seth green in without a paddle haha

              [–]Devinity 0 points1 point  (2 children)

              If you're any white guy in asia, you're going to get a lot of girls. Being a doctor helps a ton as well.

              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

              [deleted]

                [–]Devinity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Everybody likes white guys, even in the middle east. These are the kind of guys I see the pretty girls with, anyway.

                [–]Gmun23 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                Don't stop /r/NoFap, this in essence is conquering your addiction(s), once you have you can move on to TRP. I'm over 230+ days on nofap, and haven't looked back. It's simple the best tool for constant motivation, energy and being the best self.

                Once I conquered this nasty addiction, I had a clear mind in what I was doing. More focused on tasks, and the insecurities started to fade. It's the holy grail to start self-improvement.

                can a short guy be in top 20% without being rich?

                Looks to me like inadequate self believe. I found my self constantly looking for validation, to motivate me to get stuff done, this fades swiftly. Except what you are given and make the most out of it.

                [–]PlanB_pedofile 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                Fuck the nofap. You're horny, deal with it. For a short guy just work on physical fitness and game.

                You may be short, but you may be the only guy in the club with nice abs or that hunk physique that knows how to game. You'll get rejected a lot, scolded a lot, and turned down a lot, but if your frame control is top notch, you'll lay that tall 9.

                [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                I notice my skin stops getting oily when I get to the 2 week mark. No placebo

                [–]ilkeryuceler 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                That's why its "improvement" there is always a higher point to reach

                [–]MrMontage 20 points21 points  (4 children)

                This is just a rebranding of outer game. Focusing too much on outer game without attention to inner game is just a form of productive procrastination if your only aim is to get women. If you're outer game is tight, but you're inner game lacks you're just a poser that'll get blown out of the water every time.

                I think the whole self improvement emphasis is a bit ridiculous. It puts you at war with yourself if you're focused on "becoming" something. You can't become something other than yourself. All the stuff you're talking about is just putting on a costume. Not to say appearances aren't extremely important, but to the discerning eye you'll be seen for the fraud that you are. Most leaders of men and women have that eye.

                Do work because it's satisfying. Dress well because it feels good. Exercise because it's pleasurable. Party because it's fun. Dance because you want to.

                [–]karmaisdharma 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                For real. I mean I love pussy but OP is on a fucking MISSION.

                [–]VirgoRooster 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                What difficult for me, and from what I gather is difficult for others too, is getting motivated to the point of taking action and accomplishing goals while simultaneously liking and approving of yourself as you are. It's important to develop a healthy competitive drive that also doesn't resort to self-loathing or misplaced anger.

                You'll never truly be able to be the best at everything, and if you push yourself so hard that you never step back and just appreciate life, you get burnt out and you're right back where you started.

                As far as we know, we're functions that run for 80ish years and then end. There's a lot you can do with that time, but by the end of it, I think you should be able to look back and say you enjoyed the experience.

                Doesn't mean that there shouldn't be work, but like you say, it should be satisfying. The self-improvement process--both the journey and the destination--should be rewarding. If you're wearing fancy clothes, pumping iron six days a week, making good money in your career, meeting interesting people (esp.girls) but you're not having fun doing it... what the fuck's the point?

                [–]harkrank -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                The more you challenge yourself the more you get motivated, no matter if you fail or succeed. When your mind gets used to being challenged you will be more easily bored by not having new challenges.

                [–]whyalwaysm3 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                Damn I posted my post without reading yours, but it's literally the same thing you're talking about. OP is telling people to wear a costume, not improve themselves. That's lame.

                [–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 9 points10 points  (0 children)

                First thing, I am not you. I know what works for me, and my priorities are vastly different. Young men should follow this, old guys who are not putting in the effort too. Don't hamster it away and say you don't need the muscle, finances, or attire, you're not me.

                I'm 45, being ripped isn't for me, but I have lots of mass and decent definition. It gets better every week, I lose body fat and gain muscle. Why not ripped? I've been there a few times in my life, with my metabolism and genetics it takes a diet I can't sustain and still do the shit I want to do. I am active daily, have put in massive work in my youth that has paid off handsomely. You need to get there, I will be where I want to be in six months.

                I haven't been to male fashion advice. Being the overly muscled man I am, I don't look good in most suits and dress wear, besides it isn't me. I'm a gear head, muscle bound bad boy freak with no neck, put me in a silk shirt and I look like a try hard wannabe. It doesn't work, never has, though some button down shirts work, its hard to get them tailored to fit me here. I'm not paying $150 for a shirt to fit my short thick chest and arms.

                I don't party, don't hit bars, I build cars and go have fun with them. Girls see me having fun, go for rides in my old ratty but very violent cars and they get wet. Its what works for me. A lifted 4x4 is in the works, as is a lowered C10, plus a rat rod or two. No silk shirt or suit for the man with a car that has no paint. I can mix drinks, and I can make alcohol too, I'm not a one trick pony. You shouldn't be either.

                I'm building my life over after a divorce last year. I'm not looking to have some bitches taking up time, money and resources I need to build my house, shop, and yard. Priorities dictate bitches must wait. I don't give a fuck about them, they won't put in the effort needed to build a life like mine, they will only detract from it. The last thing I need is a relationship. Monk mode doesn't fit, its more of a driven to achieve something I can't be distracted from.

                I can pull hot bitches, they notice my short old ass every time I go out, and they look at me the same way they look at the ripped guys. Bad boy works for me, when I feel the need to have some female spreading her legs for me, I will get one. You younger guys need to work to get there, you need to bust your ass so if you do get divorced or some other life setback, you can rebuild easily.

                Never rest, never stop striving to achieve, but also know what you want from life, and figure out how to get it. Never put anyone in the position where they can take what you have earned, don't give away shit for free, tell them up front what the deal is. Never marry, don't knock a bitch up unless you have your life squared away, and there is a written agreement about the kid. The world is against you, it doesn't give a shit about you, you have to do it on your own.

                [–]Endorsed Contributor30303030303030 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                Tremendous post, well done, even though I refuse to improve only to pull women, if that's the only reason most will peak very early. We also pat each other back to much in here with "men age like wine, women like milk". How many good looking 40+ y.o. do you know?

                Can you actually dance unabashed?

                This is very interesting. First to follow, when it's most probable to fail and look ridiculous are men, then more men and finally few women. When the crowd got big there finally is a swarm of women joining.

                A break down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hO8MwBZl-Vc

                [–]1tombreck2 6 points7 points  (3 children)

                This reminds me of one of GLOs older posts with the pictures. Great post

                [–]Iupvoteforknowledge 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                Was definitely originally his style but I've seen it picked up by a lot of users recently which is good, a picture is worth many words and visualization helps.

                [–]1Modified_Hackware[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Certainly was, and is; GayLubeOil is an inspiration to me along with many others in the community.

                [–]RPDBF 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                those are always my favorite posts

                [–]Transmigratory 5 points6 points  (1 child)

                I always thought that TRP encouraged one to be an all-rounder: improving body, mind and even their life overall*.

                *Including aiming for careers and circles which should put you in that top percentile.

                Tbh, I wouldn't expect any RPer to get tons of 9s/10s who want "valuable" men only if they've just done part of TRP stuff which is "easy" relative to the others e.g. go to the gym and improving fashion and forgoing improving other aspects of their lives.

                [–]ButterMyBiscuit 1 point2 points  (7 children)

                One major thing I need to work on is showing monetary value. I'm early 20s with 5 digits in both my savings account and 401k, blowing my peers out of the water, but I'm cheap. Any suggestions here?

                [–]PlanB_pedofile 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                showing monetary value is a form of peacocking. You're investing in feathers to draw attention.

                Though a squirrel diligently stockpiles his food for the lifetime of winter in hopes to share with a potential mate. Yet his efforts are greater spent on hoarding than searching. When one day while the squirrel was out foraging a hawk snatches his life. All his savings are left behind for scavengers to devour. While focusing on his goal of wealth, he fails to secure his goal of preservation.

                It's a noble goal to have so much in savings, but don't forget to invest in memories and relationships.

                [–]ButterMyBiscuit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Yeah, good analogy and I agree, it's just tough to stop being cheap even when you have the resources to spend responsibly and still add to savings.

                Also that username is hilarious.

                [–][deleted]  (2 children)

                [deleted]

                  [–]ButterMyBiscuit 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                  I'm currently saving up for a house. My boring car should run fine for another 5-6 years, and I can't really justify getting a new one.

                  Honestly why show your hand at this age?

                  I'm not suggesting I live a lavish lifestyle and blow money on women, but we all know women are attracted to money + status, and looking wealthy can halfway buy you status. Currently I do not come off as wealthy.

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Start with things that are expensive, but over their lifespan may be of a similar cost to the cheaper alternatives. Shoes for instance. If they are well taken care of, a pair of $400+ shoes will last a lifetime and demonstrate wealth even though they are about the same cost as cheaper shoes when accounting for the fact that you need new cheap shoes every year. A used nice watch (~$800) can be sold decades from now as a used nice watch for about what you paid for it. You can get a bag like Saddleback leather or Filson for $400 that will last a lifetime and is warranteed to do so instead of that $60 bag you carry that lasts a couple years. These things make you look rich even though in reality you're being pretty damn frugal.

                  [–]harkrank -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                  No use in doing this. You will actually have a harder time with girls if you're showing wealth at your age because people will think of you as "the rich guy" and girls will hesitate to get with you because they don't want people to think they're with you for your money. Also betas will hate you and do everything to bring you down.

                  Yes it's great to have made it at a young age and it's natural to want to show your success, but people will rationalize in any way they possibly can that you don't deserve the success, because having money is not normal at your age.

                  Let your wealth be a side bonus. Showing it is a bad idea.

                  [–]Hymen-Ripper 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                  Dumb question. I've been working out for a year and for the first time in my life my chest/back is bigger than my waist. My clothes look like the former in the picture. How do you get your clothes to fit like the latter? Slim fit clothes? Actually getting your clothes tailored? I wouldn't even know where to find a good tailor.

                  [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                  [deleted]

                    [–]tallwheel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    I asked elsewhere in this thread, but where does one get casual tailored?

                    [–]tedted8888 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    Not to discount what you said, but every pickup thing i've read (David D, Real social dynamics, and a few others) say that apperances contribute to 30-50% at most of your game. RSD is huge on voice tone and body language. In face most of your communication is via body language and only 20% is through the words. Also women are social proof monsters. You can be short fat and bald, but if you have a few female friends on your arms, you'll have the "social proof" which will do much more than high fashion or a 6 pack ever will.

                    My improvement is focused more on social dynmaics than superfical things like tailored suits.

                    Good post none the less.

                    [–]Juan23Four5 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                    That sasquatch music festival video is amazing. People who were sitting staring at the dude just minutes earlier joined in a matter of seconds once a crowd formed. I've experienced this before at parties and bars - everyone wants to be around the group of people having FUN.

                    [–]enriquex 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    ecstasy is a hell of a drug

                    [–]scholarly_pimp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    Great post... painful to hear for some of us, I'm sure, but it's very enlightening

                    [–]juiceperks 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    Some days I tread water, yes.

                    And some days I swim my ass off and realize I was doing back strokes all day or going in the wrong direction.

                    But there are days when I would give Phelps a run for his money and swim the self-improvement equivalent of a marathon.

                    My objective now is to make sure I have more of those days. And stop fucking swimming backwards.

                    [–]martypete 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    /r/swoleacceptance

                    May gains be upon you brother, wheymen.

                    [–]tallwheel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    I agree that it is important to always be trying to improve oneself. There is also something to be said for being calmly satisfied with one's current state as well. One can focus on how far they've come and be satisfied with one's current state. That doesn't mean you stop trying new ways to improve.

                    I guess the secret is to not overemphasize it to yourself in either direction. One doesn't want to become complacent, but one doesn't want to become so focused on becoming better that they are constantly stressed and dissatisfied with their current life either.

                    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                    So, what can a guy that's 5'3" hope to be? I've literally been told that I'm like a jacked man, but half the size. I've been called miniature James Bond. I've been told that I have an action figure body, actual size. A lot of women don't takes seriously no matter how I look.

                    [–]Devinity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    One of my friends back in grad school was skinny and about your height. But he had military connections and was involved in a few start-ups, and talked a great game. Pulled way more girls than I did, and nobody I knew mentioned his height disparagingly.

                    [–]djvita 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    we're so accustomed to instant gratification that bpmen are happier with no effort work. easier and better to be a skinny-fat schlub neckbeard who DESERVES a gurl!

                    [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                    This is one of the best posts I've read since I started lurking here. Relevant, practical and motivating. Without any bs.

                    [–]MaxPower6 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                    Amen. Except for the /r/malefashionadvice part. Get GQ instead.

                    [–]RedArgonaut 3 points4 points  (2 children)

                    I've been visiting /r/malefashionadvice long before I found TRP and I always feel the need to defend it. There's a ton of good information on there. There is also a lot of shit. If you only spend a few minutes there, you'll see a bunch of people dressed like fags. As with any "self-help like" sub, you gotta wade through the garbage to find the good stuff. Utilize the search bar. Because of that sub, I dress fucking good.

                    [–]invictusrp 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                    I'll defend MFA too. Go there, ignore the shit that looks too young/too out there/too gay for you. Learn how shit should fit, learn what goes together, learn how not to look like an idiot or a try hard.

                    Fit is king. GQ can also suck a dick though

                    [–]CUNT_FLAP_ICE_PACK 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    I prefer Esquire but yes, MFA was my crucial starting point towards improved fashion.

                    [–]Modern__Day__Pricus 3 points4 points  (3 children)

                    I have felt this recently. I get these weird feelings and thoughts as well when it comes to life as a whole. Yes, I am thankful for the "Red Pill" everyday no question about it but, at times I feel like I am like a kid that was mocking The Rock back in the 90's-mid 2000's. Yes, I know how to do The Rock eyebrow, say all of his catchphrases, know all his move sets, etc, yet it really wont mean a damn thing because that is not me. I am not him per say if you get what I mean.

                    Learning game not just about women but life as a whole is really a shocking feeling. I feel like, I am just like the big bitch under the pyramid when it comes time for the skinny girls to climb and pose. Bad analogy I know but shit, at least I gave you a image of some young broads in cheerleader outfits right?

                    (Chris Hanson: Have a seat sir. Lets talk for a minute.)

                    Anyway yeah. I do feel like I am at times just stepping stones for others to be a success. Like, when I really break it down will I even be remember in the future? Yeah, I will be dead and not really care (Hopefully) but, in the grand scheme of things will it be like I ever existed?

                    You can go back in time and see Martian Luther King walking in some protests when it came to heavy racial issues back then and automatically spot who he is. Yet, what about the people next to him? Do you even care to know who these people are? Are you even going to remember looking at that picture a hour later?

                    Most like no. You, and I as well will only remember MLK from that pic if I ever think about it. The men and women standing next to him will never be thought about again. MLK will though because of what he has done to the world to help move pass racial issues. The people walking with him back then might as well of never existed on this world to us and many more people if you ask them. They was there, this, is now.

                    So yeah at times I feel as if I am just another Battery that is helping keeping the lights on. That is it. Sure of course, I can become great and have success either with my blog, becoming a stand up, or whatever else I chose to purse no question, but at the same time I can also fail and be erased from time as if my life was never important. Ignorance is bliss I guess. But lets be real, as you get older, how REALLY ignorant can you still be and survive out here?

                    http://associationofchronos.com/2014/09/08/batteries/

                    [–]BlueChilli 4 points5 points  (2 children)

                    Three generations. That's what my dad always told me. You will have three generations, four if you are exceptionally long lived, of people who will remember you. After that, nothing. Just a name on a stone.

                    It is amoral. It just is.

                    Even if you manage some great world changing thing, people may remember your name, but just your name. No one will remember who they were as a person, only as an idea or a symbol.

                    George Washington, MLK, Louis Pasteur, Napolean, etc. They might as well be abstract concepts for they are so removed from our own life. While we can read about them and who they were, they are nothing more than a short blerb of things they did. A short passage in an 8th grade history lesson.

                    [–]galaxy_man33 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Insignificance at its finest. I know when I die, I've come to terms that only my immediate family and very close friends will care to remember my legacy as person. And know what? It's liberating.

                    I think this why so many people object to the idea of evolution and lack of a god is for this very fact, it makes them feel so insignificant if it were true, so they praise that "God and Jesus care about me, I'm special to them"

                    HA.

                    [–]Modern__Day__Pricus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Shit.

                    That is even more scary when I think about it. But yet true. When we here those names we don't think about their WHOLE life. Just what they represented.

                    I remember reading somewhere that Oliver Stone wanted to do a "Ray" like movie with MLK. And by "Ray" like movie I mean show EVERYTHING about MLK that modern day teens and even adults would of never known about the man. But, his family refused I think due to them wanting to keep his legacy in tact. I respect that that but, looking at it it ties in to what you are saying.

                    These men are simply concepts and homework assignments. Nothing wrong with that because their ideas and concepts still live on even after that have been gone from this world long ago but, still. It really makes you think in the long run about your life.

                    [–]Entrefut 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    WTB SMV calculator

                    But not really. Sometimes it's really hard, but you have to be honest with yourself and realize your SMV just isn't anything to raise eyebrows. I still get frustrated daily that I can't get some of the women I would like to, but you can't give up. You just hit the grind stone day after day regardless of the outcomes.

                    [–][deleted]  (6 children)

                    [deleted]

                      [–]tallwheel 2 points3 points  (3 children)

                      All that stuff is fine if you want to be in the top 20% of men. If you're aiming for the top 1%, it's a whole different game.

                      Top 1%!? Good luck. Most guys will never even be in the top 20%, no matter how much TRP and self improvement they implement.

                      [–]Night--Writer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      1 in 5 isn't hard to achieve if you work towards it considering half of our population is obese. You've statistically moved up halfway if you're not overweight.

                      Have a full time job, confident, and stay in shape? Bump up another 10%. We should all be able to achieve the top 33% simply for working seriously towards improving ourselves. Here's something else I learned by working in a company with not a lot of American born workers, the top 20% aren't always the top 20% everywhere- hence why some decent looking chicks go to comic-con type events simply so they can know what being that 1% girl with all the attention is like. There's niches out there, but I'd suggest sticking to your interests. I'd rather be a 30% being myself where I want to be than a 10% somewhere I don't enjoy.

                      Maybe the secret is to constantly work on improving ourselves and not taking ourselves too seriously either. Rant over lol.

                      tl/dr - Work on improving and we'll make it.

                      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                        [–]tallwheel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Most guys are most guys... and a lot more people on this sub are most guys than their own personal estimations are allowing themselves to believe.

                        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        this is exactly why i haven't been feeling well lately. thank you.

                        [–]TheGoldenCaulk[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        I have that peacoat...... on an unrelated note.....

                        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          Deadlifting is all you really need. If you want strong hands, thick neck, big legs... deadlift

                          [–]sir_wankalot_here -5 points-4 points  (2 children)

                          Sounds like too much work, I decided to just become a politician instead. They get all the pussy.

                          We judge ourselves by our intentions and we judge others by their actions

                          All that matters is results, and this is why all religions are beta.

                          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                          [deleted]

                            [–]sir_wankalot_here -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

                            Find some stupid cause that attracts attention and has a core group to it. Like a branch of Feminazism. The more outrageous the idea, the better it is.

                            If you are lazy and kind of stupid like me, take over a present cause. The feminazi with the idea the 90% of men should be placed in work camps might be a good one. Offer to help her setup this ideal society to demonstrate to other women how great this idea is.

                            Then explain the for profit prison industry how they can get cheap prison labour if they back you. Politicians will like this, because that will mean 90% of men can not vote if they are in prison.

                            Also use catch phrases like it is to protect the children. If anyone attacks you accuse them of being a pedophile :-)

                            [–]circlhat -5 points-4 points  (1 child)

                            Self improvement is great but you are missing the greatest point of all, Be masculine , all this stuff is great if you do it for yourself but its not needed to get 10s.

                            You don't need a six pack, you don't need a nice car, you don't need some interesting hobby.

                            I know a guy who landed a perfect 10 and she drove a benz, his broke ass lives with his mom and he pulls girls better than me.

                            My point is this is the red pill, the gym should be secondary always to game, because that is what is missing we are told our entire lives to work hard, and be healthy we have high school kids on steroids, trust me the muscle are easy on the roids.

                            Self improvement is great, it helps tremendously, but don't lose sight of what women really want.

                            [–]NicCageForPresident 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            your friend who landed the 10 is very physically attractive. you can't see it because men are absolutely terrible at estimating the attractiveness of other men, but I guarantee it.

                            [–]philipzimbardo -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                            Also recognizing that you're most likely not an 8+ yourself and trying to score one yourself may be impossible no matter what self-improvement you do.

                            [–]backfor -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                            Dressing well? seriously, that guy looks like an ass-clown.

                            [–]whyalwaysm3 -4 points-3 points  (5 children)

                            Everytime I see posts like this I can understand why some people laugh at this subreddit. There are so many things wrong with this I don't even know where to begin. I've gotten a very good amount of 9s and 10s and yes I'm attractive but I'm no male model, I'm not even 6'2, I'm 5'10. Yes I'm in shape, I love competing so I'm always in shape.

                            But you know what gets me the hot chicks? I work on improving myself WITHOUT selling myself. You're telling everyone here that they need to wear certain things to be in style, that they should know how to dance, how to make 20 different cocktails, that they should APPEAR wealthy even if they're not, and then the dumbest thing, you won't get laid by 8s or higher if you're not ripped? What a joke lmao. How many times do we see a gorgeous girl with a fat guy, all the time. This guy here would almost certainly tell you it's because he's rich, or because he has this or that, when in fact maybe the girl just likes him for who he is.

                            Why fake being wealthy and spend more money on clothing and have less in your pocket to appear wealthy, and doing this only to get pussy? That's pathetic. Why learn how to make 20 cocktails if you don't even drink or barely drink? To impress a girl, so she can unzip her dress the second you show her your cocktail skills?

                            You're basically ACTING like someone you're not to get laid, do you see how pathetic that is? You're selling your identiy to impress that hot girl at the bar? It's ridiculous.

                            This is what works for me and has worked for me for years. I act like myself, I read ands stay on top of things so I'm intellectual in modern conversation. I dress nice, but I don't wear what I think will impress girls, instead I wear what I THINK looks good on me, and most importantly in what I feel comfortable in. This doesn't mean you should go out to dinner in sweatpants and expect a girl to like you, this just means use common sense, know what is appropriate to wear and when. When I speak to a woman I'm speaking to her exactly as I would speak to someone I know, completely relaxed, no forcing anything, and just go with the flow.

                            Most importantly BE YOURSELF. If you need improvement in certain areas for example you need to lose weight, then do it but don't set ridiculous unrealistic goals like having to be ripped to pull 9s because that just isn't true. Be yourself, you don't have to know 20 cocktail recipes, maybe you excel other areas, maybe you're a great athlete, a great cook, a great graphic designer, a great mechanic. If doesn't matter what, but SHOW THAT to the female. Let her know you have passion for something and that your life has meaning.

                            Lastly, if you fake being someone you're not, it will be exposed sooner or later either by the girl or her friends. You will also attract a girl who might like the fake you but then you'll just depress yourself because you will never be able to be comfortable and yourself around her because that's not who picked her up. Instead be yourself, show her you have interests in life whatever they may be. Be friendly, have manners, use common sense, and just being yourself will eventually attract a woman who likes you for you, and you won't be stressed putting up an image for her so she likes you, instead you'll be happy you have a pretty woman who likes you for you.

                            [–]1Modified_Hackware[S] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

                            Sigh.

                            First of all your advice on "JUST BE YOURSELF" is a cliche which isn't worth going into. If "JUST BE YOURSELF" worked, TRP wouldn't exist.

                            Next, your frame of reference is an attractive 5"10 guy who already knows how to dress and is relaxed around women already and understands value.

                            The rest of your post is largely straw man. Let's go through them...

                            • You're telling everyone here that they need to wear certain things to be in style

                            False. I told people they need to dress well, telling people what to wear is obviously silly for obvious reasons.

                            • that they should know how to dance.

                            False, I said dance unabashed. The person in that video is clearly not a great dancer.

                            • how to make 20 different cocktails

                            10, and in the context that they are party boys. The message being to learn something interestingly useful in relation to your interests already.

                            • You're basically ACTING like someone you're not to get laid.

                            This is a conclusion based of your own misinterpretation. Dressing well, getting into better-than-decently-ok shape and bringing something interesting to a table is not cause for character abandonment I feel.

                            [–]whyalwaysm3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            Sure man, hey if you feel better after writing that, good for you. I know I can get laid on a weekly basis by girls that are 8s and above. You're obviously an expert so no need for us to debate, I'm sure your numbers speak for themselves.

                            [–]tallwheel 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                            "Just be yourself." Most useless advice ever given to anyone who is genuinely looking for help. It's nothing short of cruel that so many clueless men have been given - and continue to get - this useless advice. Thank god for this subreddit!

                            [–]whyalwaysm3 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                            It's very interesting that out of everything I wrote you only got that out of it. I said be yourself but I also said dress well, act properly, you don't have to learn how to make 20 stupid cocktails to impress a girl, instead do things that YOU WANT to do, that's called being yourself. You and probably most of the people down voting my comment are those corny dudes who try gimmicks and act fake for only one objective, to get laid, and sadly STILL don't achieve their objective.

                            Since you're obviously not very intelligent let me repeat for you. Being yourself means doing what you like, eating what you like, drinking what you like, that's what makes you unique. The other part is using common sense, know how to dress for different situations, learn social etiquette, be friendly and outgoing, stay on top of many subjects so you can easily flow in conversations no matter what the conversation is. Etc

                            Obviously you only got "be yourself" out of it so I have no hope for you. I can just imagine a bunch of you clowns following OPs advice, like robots, and girls secretly laughing behind your backs at how noticeably fake you are.

                            [–]tallwheel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            I don't entirely agree with the way OP wrote the original post either. It's a bit too negative and shaming. You're certainly right to a certain extent that in the end the goal is being able to enjoy life while living it the way you want to live. I think there is a good middle ground between OP's advice and yours.

                            The overall message of your posts, though, seems like it boils down to "be yourself" and "don't fake being someone you're not". I think this is rather useless advice for guys who are struggling; and I'm sure they have already tried this and didn't find it helpful. They're looking for 'no bullshit' tough love advice on what they need to do. You're advice is really only for people who don't have much trouble being successful or attracting women in the first place, so it really isn't helpful for guys who really do need to change what they're doing. Again, I think it is possible to do that without completely erasing who you are, pretending to be someone else, or compromising one's values.

                            So, I get what you're trying to say, and why you object to OP's advice, but I think OP's advice is more helpful overall - at least when taken with a grain of salt. Guys who really need tough love won't be helped by your advice.