all 145 comments

[–]TRP-Talk 145 points146 points  (25 children)

I want to commend you, JayGatsbyFan, for an extremely well written and impassioned post. This is precisely the kind of material we need here.

I'm 25 now, and when I reflect upon my adolescence, and those teachers and mentors who contributed the most to making a man out of me, literally none of them were women. All of them were men.

With female teachers, you were always in trouble, always bored to tears, always subject to arbitrary and unjust authority, punishment never fit the crime, and the crimes never felt like crimes in the first place! It was all wrong, even if I couldn't articulate why.

Male teachers were so different! They were tougher, but because they were actually fair, reasonable, and calm, it was so much better. Male teachers let us play sports! Nobody got in petty trouble for roughhousing, boisterousness, running around, tackle football, and for just being boys.

Now I'm old enough to find mentors and teachers in the greatest and wisest men who ever lived, the Mozarts and the Melvilles, but I'll be damned if I can remember the last time I read a book written by a woman.

I honestly feel like weeping when I think of all the lost boys of this generation, and how unlikely it is for them to have the same access that I did to inspiring male role models, or even a father. I think about what kind of man I'd be without my father, and I know in an instant that I wouldn't be a man at all.

And on those special occasions when I have the chance to speak openly and honestly with young men, about the world and what they can expect of it, you'd think based on their reactions that they'd been wandering in a desert, and this was the first time they'd ever had a clean glass of water.

But what I know is that, as a straight white heterosexual male, I have been classified as persona non grata by an astonishingly powerful group of radical feminist zealots so detached from reality they can't even see the horrible consequences of their own fanatical ideology. It's like there's a fucking Spanish Inquisition, and every man is guilty.

I'm so thankful I managed to get through with my balls intact, but I know a lot of boys aren't, and it's a fucking tragedy. The fairer sex my ass.

[–]2RedPill4LYF 42 points43 points  (7 children)

With female teachers, you were always in trouble, always bored to tears, always subject to arbitrary and unjust authority, punishment never fit the crime, and the crimes never felt like crimes in the first place! It was all wrong, even if I couldn't articulate why.

This resonates with me greatly. The first teacher I ever had openly hated boys, something my mom remembers and reminded me of not long ago. I noticed that attitude with many more teachers growing up. I distinctly remember one teacher teasing me about what a failure I was and laughing at my face in front of other students. I'm not kidding. Everything I did was a joke to her. She would single me out for her own amusement. I can't believe I sat there all those years just taking all of this mother fucking bullshit. I believed I deserved it. I was shamed and guilted on all fronts. Don't even get me started with religion. I never had a chance to discover my masculinity. I was raped by society.

The true rape culture is the mass emasculation of boys and men. If you stop and really look at it, everything Feminism bitches about is just projection. Feminism is the patriarchy.

[–]ionlyuseredditatwork 28 points29 points  (3 children)

I never had a chance to discover my masculinity. I was raped by society.

The true rape culture is the mass emasculation of boys and men. If you stop and really look at it, everything Feminism bitches about is just projection. Feminism is the patriarchy.

This was one of the things I first came to realize upon taking TRP. It shoved me into the anger stage like I was hit by a train.

My dad was as BP as they come. Bought into everything society taught him growing up. He's still bitter over the divorce from my mother a decade ago, and can't figure out where it all went wrong. Why my mother stopped sleeping with him. He passed all of that supplicating, non-confrontational bullshit right down to me.

The ex that had the most significant impact on me in my adult life was a loud-and-proud feminist. In that relationship I devolved into a beta piece of garbage. I retch thinking about the BP, supplicating things I did.

I'm a bit more into the bargaining stage of TRP now. Motivating myself to get my ass to the gym, passing more shit tests than I ever have, etc. In my adult life, I started to realize that women don't really want the feminized little bitch boy we were being told we needed to be.

Women need men. This pill may be a bitter one to swallow, but I will absolutely never regret opening my eyes for the first time.

[–]1Patriarchysaurus 4 points5 points  (2 children)

My dad was as BP as they come. Bought into everything society taught him growing up. He's still bitter over the divorce from my mother a decade ago, and can't figure out where it all went wrong. Why my mother stopped sleeping with him. He passed all of that supplicating, non-confrontational bullshit right down to me.

Right there in the same boat, bud. My father is still married to an unemployed evil hamplanet that abuses him mentally every single day. He will spout things like "I'm picking my battles" while he loses every single one. My siblings and I aren't even allowed at his house because she won't allow it, and he lives so far in denial he has Stockholm Syndrome (serious).

e.g. He'll come home from a 14-hour workday and be freaking out because he's afraid because she will be furious and berate him for forgetting to take out the garbage.

He's had three failed marriages, but he still lives in BP delusion. It's heart-wrenching and pathetic for me to witness, but it also makes me angry because of how detrimental it was to me in my younger formational years.

[–]NewRoots 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Bro your mom sounds like she's a narcississt.

/r/raisedbynarcissists

[–]HerculestheRed 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Fight the Matriarchy!

I've just been informed you can't hit girls. I'm sorry. :(

[–]sonicdrumm80 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Equal rights Equals fights

[–]1Patriarchysaurus 5 points6 points  (0 children)

"everything Feminism bitches about is just projection. Feminism is the patriarchy."

Yes, YES!!! I have thought this since I first started being critical of feminism, and it's ingenius in its deceit. How better to cover one's tracks than by projecting one's own agenda onto the "opposition"? To drive the point:

1)

Feminism stands for equality

But some animals are more equal than others.

Oh, and if you're a man and you disagree, you are a basement-dwelling neckbeard who hates women, and probably a neocon mansplaining shitlord.

2)

Rape culture is an epidemic

Ignore evidence saying it's on the decline for women, or is punished severely in courts, or reprimanded without proof on college campuses.

Don't you know 1 in 5 women are raped every second?

Oh, and also: women who rape men/boys are just scared and confused, just give them community service. Oh, and "false-accusers aren't real, so LOL, don't drop the soap you rapist"

3)

Women are smarter/better single parents/stronger/more responsible than men

"The patriarchy is trying to imbue inferiority complexes in girls and women"

4)

Abortion is a right! Don't tell women what to do with their uterus'!

"Fuck off, expectant fathers and soon-to-be deadbeat dads, you don't get a say in your reproduction so no opting out for you. Oh, and lets lobby against male birth control, because we know men will forget to take them, and if he does it's basically trust-rape for the woman."

5)

"That's misogyny"

"You disgusting white cisgendered male" (bonus neoracism)

Someone continue this.

[–]xxbearxx 27 points28 points  (0 children)

I had always assumed it was just chance and circumstance that all my female teachers were awful and all my male teachers were great but I understand why now. Favoritism, laziness, and uninspiring are the words that come to mind when I think back on them.

[–]_DiscoNinja_ 20 points21 points  (6 children)

but I'll be damned if I can remember the last time I read a book written by a woman.

This one hit me. If it weren't for Ayn Rand, my answer would have been 12 years ago on a required reading list for college.

[–]Mein_Tarnaccount 7 points8 points  (4 children)

I looked over what I read over the last few years, and with the noticeble exception of Harry Potter, I don't think I ever read something written by a woman since school.

And even in school, we only read those when the teacher was female.

[–]totorox 8 points9 points  (3 children)

As a Tolkien fan, I tried to read Harry Potter but gave up after a few pages. The female worldview was unbearably dull, especially about what magic is.

[–]matt675 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I was never quite able to put my finger on why I couldn't enjoy harry potter, but I think you just nailed it

[–]totorox 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are welcome. I gotta reread Tolkien. Out loud.

[–]orographic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Reading ayn rand is interesting from a red pill perspective. The male protagonists are total top dog alphas and the female protagonists are super hypergamous

[–]rajesh8162 5 points6 points  (1 child)

"Whoever does not have a good father should procure one."

-Friedrich Nietzsche

[–]KingMinish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you /r/TRP.

Found you.

[–]Helmut_Newton 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is a great point, and I must say I've never really though about it before. But my best teachers were all men as well. Not that I didn't have some good female teachers (and some bad male teachers). But the best male teachers were the ones who really inspired me and kept me interested in the subject at hand.

[–]RedPillington 3 points4 points  (0 children)

their eyes were watching God is an incredible book written by a woman. it's about a black woman living post slavery and is actually very compassionate towards men.

[–]penhova 3 points4 points  (1 child)

"The Manipulated Man" is one of the most red pill books about male disposability and it was written by a woman 40 years ago.

[–]TRP-Talk 6 points7 points  (0 children)

She fuckin' hit the nail on the head. You're absolutely right, and I'll be sure to buy a copy if I can. It's still not Moby Dick, though.

From wikipedia:

The book argues that, contrary to common feminist and women's rights rhetoric, women in industrialized cultures are not oppressed, but rather exploit a well-established system of manipulating men.

Vilar writes, "Men have been trained and conditioned by women, not unlike the way Pavlov conditioned his dogs, into becoming their slaves. As compensation for their labours men are given periodic use of a woman's vagina." The book contends that young boys are encouraged to associate their masculinity with their ability to be sexually intimate with a woman, and that a woman can control a man by socially empowering herself to be the gate-keeper to his sense of masculinity.

The author says that social definitions and norms, such as the idea that women are weak, are constructed by women with their needs in mind, and that praise is only given to a man when a woman's needs are met in some way.

Vilar claims that women can control their emotional reactions whereas men cannot, and that women create overly-dramatized emotional reactions to attempt to control men and get their way. She says that women "blackmail" men and use sex as a tool.

The book argues that women use traditions and concepts of love and romance, which are seen more positively than sex, to control men's sexual lives. Vilar writes that men gain nothing from marriage and that women, who are out to get men's money, coerce them into marriage under the pretense that it is romantic.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Average_Black_Man 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    To Kill a Mockingbird was pretty good. I just assumed it was written by a male

    [–][deleted]  (3 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]throwawaymydrugs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Fantastic novel, I would highly recommend everyone read it.

      Really goes into the concepts of brotherhood, trust, honor, and duty.

      [–][deleted] 32 points33 points  (13 children)

      I wish I had a father figure growing up. My mother raised me with care but with just as much disinterest.

      I had an Uncle that would occasionally visit and he was so excited about teaching me manly things. He gave me his old guitar, encouraged me to go to the gym, took me biking in the forest.

      One night my mom was upset with me and told me that my uncle said all sorts of bad things about me. She kind of ruined my relationship with him because I had such absolute trust in him as a role model that hearing that really wrecked my perspective towards him.

      [–]cascadecombo 62 points63 points  (10 children)

      You realize she more than likely lied about that so that you would put your attention back on her, she probably was jealous of the enjoyment you were getting from him vs her.

      [–]JayGatsbyFan[S] 27 points28 points  (0 children)

      Took the words out of my mouth.

      [–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (8 children)

      I was a troubled kid but my uncle was one of the few people who supported me rather than tore me down (raised in a family of women) so I think he probably voiced some concerns privately and she threw it in my face. That's the kind of parent my mom was. She just heaped heavy issues on me when I really didn't grasp what was going on at all.

      [–]TRP-Talk 13 points14 points  (0 children)

      If you were an incompetent boss, you'd never hire someone who made you look bad. If you were a competent boss, you'd hire the best damn people you could get. It's a shame, but I think the same logic applies.

      [–]cascadecombo 5 points6 points  (1 child)

      Yeah, if he was the man you make him out to be, it was probably things like, he should be doing XXXXX and he should be trying YYYYYY etc etc, and she twisted them into saying you were terrible at ZZZZZZ or whatever other hurtful thing she could think up.

      It also sounds like you never tried to reconnect with your uncle. Why?

      [–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

      He was in a terrible accident years back and is now disabled. He doesn't think or act the same anymore. Talks very slow and is unable to get really passionate about his thoughts. He retired and has become extremely conservative and religious.

      He was the ultimate beta bux for his wife too, even before all that. She drove him apart from the rest of us. Refused to let us come visit him. She got really fat after the marriage. It's a real bummer.

      I remember how he used to get really excited about ideas and events that my mother and aunts would never care about. They never cared about... how things worked, or concepts. He was the only one with the mind of a tinkerer.

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      She just heaped heavy issues on me when I really didn't grasp what was going on at all.

      I have noticed that single mothers do this a lot. They have no husband and so treat their sons inappropriately. I don't mean sexually (although that can happen). I mean that they lean on them for emotional support the way they would lean on a husband, with venting and gossip, etc.

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      This definitely happened to me. Countless times during my upbringing, in fact. Instead of being seen as a child who needed to be taught morals and lessons, I was there to be my mothers confidant and emotional dumping ground. I can't even think of a single time when my mother interacted with me with the intention of teaching me something about life, other than "put your coat on." But even then I'd sometimes be going out into the hot weather wearing a winter coat, lol.

      [–]humankin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      My mom never did this but she had to put her single mother friend in her place for doing this to me. I handled it with uncharacteristic stoicism but still it was childish of her

      [–]Nerf_Circus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      /r/raisedbynarcissistics I think they are a lot of us here.

      [–]contrafagotto 30 points31 points  (3 children)

      I am 65. I have mentored a good many young men over the years. One of the most important things they get from me, I think, is a spirit of rebellion. We talk about the great rebels and heretics, including, strangely enough, a female heretic, Joan of Arc, who feminists today sweep under the rug. A rebel, of course, needs a cause. An important part of mentoring is a sort of Socratic process of helping young rebels get their cause into focus -- their own cause, not mine. Then we think about strategies. I cannot claim a 100 percent success rate. I've taken on some tough cases, and one or two have crashed and burned. Still, one former protégé, now a Ph.D. clinical psychologist, bravely works with inmates in a high-security prison. Another, also a Ph.D., teaches law (and, covertly, legal forms of rebellion) to college students. Another published his first book at age 29 and just signed a contract for his second book at age 31. His books are all about getting off your ass as a man and going your own way, timely versions of the hero's journey. Something has gone terribly wrong when young men have their questing and rebellious instincts trained out of them, when they want to settle down and milk the system. Being a rebel, of course, is not about acting out, acting up, and getting in trouble with the law. It's about applying one's life energy toward fixing what's fucked up in the world. Show me a young man who's worth his salt and I'll show you a rebel.

      [–]NC_Reddit 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      Thanks for your work. Can you share the names of your protege's books? They sound like a good read.

      [–]rajesh8162 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Why do you think these men look up to you ? Is it because of your success or because of your attitude ?

      [–]contrafagotto 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Hmm. I'd say that it's because I'm as intelligent as they are, I listen, and I don't need to dominate them. It's a Socratic thing, I think, nicely modeled in Plato's dialogues. Before I retired, a savvy executive once complimented me on my management style and said that few people could pull it off. I encouraged the guys who reported to me to sass me and speak their minds. I tried to set the standard, then they were in charge of themselves. I'd sometimes play a little game with them during a rough spot in a meeting by asking, "What am I going to say next?" They'd laugh and quote me exactly. They always knew where they stood with me. It's about older men respecting younger men. Older men have to know when to get out the way.

      [–]14io8 52 points53 points  (6 children)

      I am nearing 40. I have literally never had a male mentor. The closest I came has been writings of people on the internet.

      I had to figure it all out for myself. I did that very slowly and mostly got it wrong. Every problem I had I avoided because I did not know what else to do. At my school as long as I got good marks everyone thought I had learnt all I needed to know. At university I was an anonymous number that may or may not get through the system. They did not care either way. At my first workplace I was a voice to answer a phone.

      All this stuff has made me better. But so slowly that my life is close to half over before I even know where to start.

      I only recently realised this is not the way its supposed to be.

      When I learn about the life of people i admire they almost all talk about one or two guys who guided them at key points in their life. Who kicked their ass when it needed it. Eventually I wondered why this had never happened to me, even once. Its starting to make sense now. It was not just bad luck on my part. I wonder what I might have become with the right mentor.

      All my life I have been told i am smart and talented. And then left on my own because I am smart and talented. Judging by life's net negative outcome so far doing it on my own does not seem to be working. I am failed enough to acknowledge I could not do it on my own.

      [–]cantbelieveiwasbuter 16 points17 points  (3 children)

      Man I hear ya on this one, dad left or was run off (who knows at this point) right before I turned 13. Left to be raised by my mother and my 3 older sisters, who saw me mostly as a life-sized doll that they could dress up and ridicule for doing things naturally different then them. Can't tell you how many times I heard "ewww" and "gross" said about me in such disdain that it had no choice but to stay with you for life.

      Although, I think Vietnam and the cold war had a lot do with the death of our male role models as well. Even when my father was around he really wasn't. Basically forced into service in the Vietnam era and a captain of a sub during the cold war he had turned to drink and solitude, and who can blame him really, long before he turned away from us.

      [–]14io8 16 points17 points  (1 child)

      Something happened with you fathers generation. Its like everrthing fell apart in the 70's. Modern feminism was just a reaction to it. Its like the whole world fell apart socially and we've been living in the aftermath for a generation.

      Perhaps I am old enough and have made enough mistakes to know how to "self mentor" now, whatever that means. Whether it works or not, its the only choice I have. Its not like awareness you need a mentor suddenly creates one.

      [–]Zaorish9 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I had the exact same experience. At 29, I am slowly internalizing these truths. It is never too soon or too late to learn from your mistakes.

      [–]tag2man 12 points13 points  (0 children)

      All my life I have been told i am smart and talented. And then left on my own because I am smart and talented. Judging by life's net negative outcome so far doing it on my own does not seem to be working. I am failed enough to acknowledge I could not do it on my own.

      Your last point resonates deeply with me. Life may be the blank canvas on which you paint your masterpiece, yet without proper guidance how do you know to even make the first brush stroke? Colourful metaphors aside, from my own experience, it is the lack of a masculine role model in your youth that makes swallowing the pill difficult if not traumatic. What is societies response, if not absent acceptance of another handicap for the young men of today.

      [–]linkfoo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      You sound like me. I'm still figuring it out, and it's not been pleasant. All I can say is that the second half of life is when you wake up to a lot of things that are important.

      [–]1TheReason13 15 points16 points  (1 child)

      This is the kind of reading material we need in this sub. The emasculation process definitely has its most alarming effect on the male in adolescent, and the practical non existence of the male mentor in the modern increasingly emasculated male population leaves young men at a disillusioned as to what it means to be a man.

      I recall reading a story of a man expressing his feelings of betrayal and disappointment in the male figures he grew up with through his adolescence. One story appealed to me when he was in junior high school. His math teacher mistakenly marked one of his answers wrong in a test, when he inquired she berated him for being disrespectful and sent him to the principals office. He admired the principal and simply explained the misunderstanding to the principal, who was a former math teacher himself, and the principal assured him that his answer was in fact correct.

      However, the principal told him that he would have to formally apologize to the teacher and sign a disciplinary warning anyway.

      The kind of betrayal this man must have felt is enough to obscure any confidence and sense of justice and integrity a developing mind needs. He was taught to submit to the woman even though she was wrong. He goes on to explain the agony of having to apologize to the teacher knowing that he has done nothing wrong, and explains how this occurrence had a massive effect on his interactions with woman, and also male figures.

      [–]j-pHil 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      He basically got his balls cut off.

      [–]MLAHandbook 12 points13 points  (3 children)

      Thank you! I've always wondered if the red pill would take the next step to unleashing our inner potential. We have the opportunity here to explore so much more then pua game and the female psyche. We need to look inwards, and not just at ourselves but at our sex as a whole.

      The 20th and 21st century have seen the foundation of masculinity be cut down and uprooted from our society. Leaving us with this uncomfortable sad, lonely, angst filled hole that if not filled by us will be filled by the sitcoms, the video games, by fucking second class literature.

      Since I was a boy my god given right to be who I am has been ripped away from. My whole god damned life I've been punished for not sitting still in class, goofing around, talking back, wrestling, fighting, being fucking critical of the society we live in. Even now ! When I'm 18 in college it's hard not too blow my brains out as my morality teacher tells me how he thinks his ancestors from Penssylvania in the 1600s are wrong to have owned slaves. Get your bloody head out of your arse! It's not that simple. Just another example of "sensitive history".

      I've always yearned for a proper male role model and I've never been rewarded. With a father who hasn't passed down what his father taught him. And has allowed me to make my own decisions as a child which of course were video games and pizza, not the outdoors and a campfire. The one thing i can thank him for his sparking my interest in history, which allowed me to see the world in a completely new perspective.

      We need to lay a foundation. A foundation for a strong society. One where we can grow and learn from each other. Go back to our ancestors and rediscover their stories. From Homer to Hemingway, and Plato to Hume. We need to remember how to be men. This is why the red pill came to form, and this is what we have to do.

      [–]Roneldo 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      Care to explain the part about owning slaves being not so simple as morally right of wrong?

      [–]MLAHandbook 5 points6 points  (1 child)

      Of course. Wouldn't wanna be misinterpreted. First I love history, and when I read and learn about history I try to be as impartial as possible, or at least consider the context of the time. So often today I find when we look back in time we always like to look at it with a moral high ground, which is ludicrous. It's just pompous to look back at our past with the expectations of what we have in the 21st century.

      Anyways what I'm trying to get as is that slavery was around long before what happened in the States and with Europe. And while it was a terrible part of our past we have to understand that it wasn't considered to be an "evil" thing then, and though we know it is an atrocious thing now we shouldn't force our moral standards on the completely different societies of the past.

      [–]oldmanwho 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      /offtopic

      that was a purposefully subversive sentence that forced you to defend reality, whether the poster realized their trained pavlovian outburst or not. all the more curious, given this thread of subversive miseducation that we all have to deal with.

      in brief: slavery was a necessary economy when industrialization was absent, and all societies practiced it for unwritten thousands of years. reality was quite harsh, people fought for resources, and bodies were the most plentiful useful resource. societies thrived with slavery, and were conquered without it.

      in the recent centuries, as automation increased production and efficiency, this began to change as european societies built mechanization. slavery and indentured servitude became less efficient. unfortunately, innovations in global shipping allowed for those still wanting slaves (instead of industry) to buy them from backwards societies still practicing slavery. this introduced race differences, which heretofore did not exist. hamsterization of those still needing slaves introduced retarded justifications to stay in the past, though often in labor unable to be mechanized at the time. and as anger grew on all sides, slavery became outlawed and perversively quite lucrative for the africans and arabs still practicing the more brutal forms of it (see barbary pirates). eventually, slave trade was forcibly ended by the industrialized nations, both by wars on land and a 100 year war on the seas, but it was done by the industrialized against the desires (and economic necessity) of those still left in the past. time moved on. though european descendants paid dearly to end slavery, those left in the past paid arguably the most as their own children were quite behind in skill-heritage. unable to compete openly, many resorted to victim and racism narratives, and thus began the long decent into the present inversion of reality and rewriting of history we see today. oppressive racists caused slavery! slavery is morally wrong! give us more free shit! and on and on it goes.

      after sufficient indoctrination, good luck not getting asked such questions by people who believe fiction is fact, and facts never happened. best to just keep your speech far away from trigger warnings, else the crazies will go off on you. and no matter what you say, you won't convince.

      [–]hobodick 12 points13 points  (1 child)

      Male mentors have been killed by the lie that men are sex-starved beasts and pedophiles.

      Do you see people advertising for male nannies? How about male roommates when they have children, boys or girls?

      I used to work in a grocery store, started when I was 18. At first I loved kids, it was hilarious to me. It would really brighten my day giving kids balloons and stickers and shit because they would act like you just handed them the coolest thing in the world. Soon enough I realized all the dirty looks I was getting from women. Saying hello to a kid or making a funny face at them and people looked at me like I was pulling my cock out.

      I learned to just stay the fuck away from kids, and when they get near me I tell them to get away. Last thing I needed was some crazy customer costing me my job because I gave their kid some stickers.

      And I hate feeling like that....I fucking HATE it. I don't want to see a kid and have my mind instantly go to, "Oh, I don't want to look like a pedophile." It's FUCKED that my mind is forced to go to a place where children are abused all because of stupid ass sexist people.

      [–]TRP-Talk 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I hate it too, man. On a similar note, getting stuck walking behind a girl at night is just the worst, especially if she's alone. If we're walking at the same speed, she's uncomfortable the entire time and her body language practically screams this fact. If I'm walking faster so I can pass her, she's even more uncomfortable. Sometimes when I'm in that predicament I just stop and sit there for a minute until she's far enough away. What the fuck?

      [–]WingsnLV 9 points10 points  (1 child)

      My son is in karate and his teacher is female. He is in basketball and his teacher is female. Men have been scared out volunteering their time for children because of the labels our culture has placed on all males by default. I've been watching the Ray Rice coverage and it's been disturbing. Many have used it as an opporrunity to perpetuate the myth that alm men are violent domestic abusers just ready to snap at any second. Our culture has no repect for men. Only fear and hatred.

      [–]52576078 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Well, maybe it's time for us men to force our way back into helping and mentoring our children.

      [–]sheriffbigbywolf 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      Men do have a space to take out their aggression in a positive way: on the mat. Studying BJJ, Muay Thai, Judo, Jujitsu, or MMA will not only keep you cool, it will make you a better, stronger, more dominant and confident man. While some women study these arts, and should, these are for most purposes still masculine spaces (as they ought to be). They may be the last remaining ones.

      [–]jakethesnake76 5 points6 points  (2 children)

      How many of you would have been able to benefit from a man like this? How many young boys would today? We need to reintegrate the concept of male wisdom and mentoring to young boys again, or we're going to grow up into a world that's weak, overly sensitive, and passive. Where things like "stare rape" are words with legitimacy. These are not virtues of a healthy, tolerant, and growing society. It's the death knell before the actual tough guys come to kick our ass.

      Our Country won’t go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won’t be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!” - Lt. Gen. Lewis B. “Chesty” Puller, USMC

      [–]1Patriarchysaurus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Which is, not surprisingly, how sexual evolution works.

      [–]ShinyBrah 17 points18 points  (6 children)

      The first generation where iPhones and the internet are the norm will mark the decline of western civilisation. At this rate, most men will end up like your typical Japanese man (a shut in that lives for anime, video games and other nerdy interests) and women will be even more self obsessed because they'll be accustomed to seeking validation all the time due to social media.

      I'm glad I was born in the 90's and not the 00's.

      [–]Enisei 14 points15 points  (2 children)

      You're typical japanese man today has no interest in women. So women lose interest in men. I commend Japanese men for their ability to say no and turn their back. They're like the ultimate MGTOW. I'd rather be a "shut in" than deal with today's women.

      [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Unfortunately, this is unhealthy and probably due to drops in testosterone and other imbalances, mostly from their lifestyle.

      [–]DoctorsHateHim 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Except it is not by their own choice and they feel the lack it creates. That's why there are weird things in Japan, like cuddle cafes and rent a family.

      You tell me if that is a healthy and happy live for a man.

      [–]_valtiel_ -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

      Show me a source about the typical Japanese man.

      [–]ShinyBrah 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      Don't have access to a computer right now, but if you Google it you'll find a few sources. Birth rates in Japan are dropping very fast and the old are starting to out number the young. I was watching a documentary not too long ago and senior diapers sell more than their infant counterparts.

      Women in Japan are starting to focus solely on careers (some say this is due to the lack of "good" men) and the men are making a "livable" wage and living for Otaku culture. To make the matter worse, a lot of men and women head over to Host clubs to get the girlfriend/boyfriend experience.

      You could probably get a Japanese girl pretty easy in Japan at this rate.

      [–]qaiszer0 4 points5 points  (1 child)

      Yup, exactly this. This is what happened to me.

      I've made my own imaginary mentor, attributing all the online advice and posts, lessons that I read, as his words to me.

      He's called Mr Internet.

      [–]Endorsed ContributorDoxasticPoo 13 points14 points  (3 children)

      We’re a generation of men raised by women. I’m wondering if another woman is really the answer we need.

      Exactly why I'm MGTOW.

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

      [deleted]

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–]a_chill_bro 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          This is by far one of the most insightful, well-written posts I've had the pleasure of coming by on this sub in a very long time.

          Thanks for posting this. After taking the red pill it's easier to simply be angry at a lot of what is going on in our society. A part of me had forgotten that there is a solution and ultimately a direction where we should all be headed. Being mentors to a younger generation is definitely part of the solution.

          In a sense this sub allows us to be mentors to each other. We learn and evolve together. Just really great work man. That's all I have to say.

          [–]symko 5 points6 points  (3 children)

          We have a rag tag group of neighborhood dogs and they make it a point to visit every house. One of the dogs is a Doberman. The Doberman is the size of a small pony with the meekest of personalities, shockingly. One day my dog runs out (barely 9lbs) and gives chase. The Doberman takes off after a few seconds the chase flips and my dog is yelping home as fast as he can go.

          Feminism is my dog, it acts intimidating but as soon as we figure out, "wait a minute, my masculinity is the size of a goddamn horse!" They'll flip that shit on a dime and run. It's happened before it will happen again.

          Being a man is hardwired into us. It's no different than an eagle snatching prey in it's claws. It didn't take classes to learn, it went out and did it.

          Follow them instincts and stop running from lapdogs.

          [–]1Patriarchysaurus 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          To extend your analogy, there is one problem with turning the chase around on the small yappers: the megafauna herd of pitbulls behind them (governmental and lobbyist support), the bitches who will avoid your doberman like the plague or else try to take a bite out of him, and all the other neighborhood dogs seeing him as a feral mad-dog chasing a poor harmless puppy and chasing him out of town.

          [–]breathedeeply1234 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          no, that's not true. united men can change this system, possibly very quickly. we need a clear legislative agenda and the determination to enact it. The general decency and courtesy men extend to each other, even the ones they disagree with most, might easily trump the dishonest bullshit of feminism.

          [–]varisforge 5 points6 points  (1 child)

          If you want to fight against this trend, read.

          Read older books from the times your hearts hearken to, like Dale Carnegies "How to win friends and influence people", or the book, "The richest man in Babylon".

          Read the books that inspired the writers of the schlock you see posted on every bookstore website about personal development.

          The times may have changed, but I surmise that the values did not. A good man, a kind man, a leader: these men are always respected. The red pill seems to me the manifestation of the hunger for role models and masculinity that matches our inner makeup and shows us how to live our lives in a way that we deem good.

          Honestly, I can say I've learned more about leadership and managing people from those books than from most of the posts on trp, but I would never have gotten the drive to read them in the first place had it not been for the helpful men here who burn with that ineffable passion to educate themselves and to share that education with the rest of us.

          Everyone knows that knowledge is power, yes, but the flipside of that coin is that knowledge is a passive power, and it exists in a vacuum. If we do not take what we learn, put it into physical practice, and then exemplify the truth of the knowledge we espouse to possess, then we are nothing more than charlatans and pretenders.

          I know that no one here is looking for party tricks to make people like them, but are really searching for the answer to that immortal question, "Who am I?"

          If you read the sidebar, and read the suggested books, and read these posts and get involved with the conversation, and stop there, then you are wasting your time.

          If you put the real lessons of trp into practice, then you will begin manifesting your inner alpha, your true self. You will find out who you really are. Isn't that a wonderful prize to obtain?

          Give it a try and see if you can prove me wrong. I dare you.

          [–]rajesh8162 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Everyone knows that knowledge is power, yes, but the flipside of that coin is that knowledge is a passive power, and it exists in a vacuum. If we do not take what we learn, put it into physical practice, and then exemplify the truth of the knowledge we espouse to possess, then we are nothing more than charlatans and pretenders.

          This brings into mind a phrase in Sanskrit called "Gyanam Bandhanam"(Knowledge Binds). It differentiates Gyan (Knowledge) from Vidya (Clarity of Thought/Understanding).

          And Vidya Shakti (Vidhya:Clarity of Thought, Shakti:Power) is part of a trilogy which is Iccha Shakti, Vidya Shakti and Kriya Shakti.

          Iccha means Will. Vidya means Clarity of Thought. Kriya means Effort.

          [–]1exit_sandman 7 points8 points  (3 children)

          Agree with most of your post, but not with the second paragraph. The lack of appreciation for humanity's historical achievements isn't really the fault of feminism. They may have fought the idea of history being shaped by men, but the sad fact is that the humanistic knowledge you want to see imparted on children is in decline is rather because it's easier to lower the demands for everyone than live with the fact that it's impossible to uplift all pupils regardless of their sociodemographic markers to the same level.

          [–]DoctorWelch 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          You're right, and he is also right. What you're describing, and what feminism is based on, is an idea from the political left. So, even though it may not be feminism directly, what you are describing is essentially in line with the whole realm of thinking.

          Also, as someone who has read a great deal of Philosophy, including Marx, I would like to say that most implementations of left leaning ideas are often created through a skewed version of what these great philosophers where trying to say. When we allow everyone's interpretation to be equally correct, we allow the idiot masses to create an ideology that will destroy us.

          [–]rajesh8162 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          it's impossible to uplift all pupils regardless of their sociodemographic markers to the same level.

          What do you mean by this ? Are you saying that people who fail their exams should be given preference over the people who pass them ? Do you actually expect people to believe this is reasonable education ? wtf !

          In India, the standard of education is so low that most people can pass exams by studying for an hour. Whenever failure rates increase, the government regulates to make the exams easier. The catch is that this doesn't effectively lower failure rates in the long run. It is a downward spiral !!!

          [–]1exit_sandman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          What do you mean by this ? Are you saying that people who fail their exams should be given preference over the people who pass them ? Do you actually expect people to believe this is reasonable education ? wtf !

          No, I am not saying that this is how it should be, but rather what happened here in Germany (or at least in the areas with a long history of left-wing governments) and in India as well, it seems - the demands were lowered to make it easier for the bad students to get the university entrance qualification despite them not being fit for it. As you said, it's a downward spiral.

          [–]HalfAsianBob 24 points25 points  (9 children)

          Feminism and "womanism" shoots down otherwise brilliant and talented men before they even get past the starting line.

          There's nothing that will kill motivation faster than not only being rejected, but being humiliated for your appearance, height, race, etc, especially by women. You then just go into "what's the point," mode where you only live for yourself, to play games and watch porn.

          My father often wonders why I'm a failure, and I just tell him that he doesn't understand that it's not the 50s-60s anymore and that women aren't angels. He also doesn't even realize that my mother chose him for his height and race meaning that character wasn't even in the fucking question.

          But don't bash Star Wars though. Along with some other fantasy works they are modern mythology and the extent of the characters and university is a solid outlet for modern man's extensive creative genius. Fantasy worlds have gotten me through some rough times and are one of the reasons I haven't blown my fucking brains out so far.

          [–]JayGatsbyFan[S] 29 points30 points  (0 children)

          If you read what I wrote and thought I was somehow bashing Star Wars, you've missed the point entirely.

          [–]topspeedj 11 points12 points  (1 child)

          About the father thing, I think it takes some older men a bit of time to realise when a younger man is truly a success. A younger man who goes straight from school to college to a corporate job may have done the 'right' and 'safe' thing financially earning $4k plus a month but he's definitely not fulfilling any dream or passion in his life.

          On the other hand, a young man pursuing his passion aggressively but isn't doing so well financially is still much happier because he's moving in the direction that he chooses. All men need to find their life passion and pursue it aggressively. Plus as a nice bonus the chicks love it.

          The young man progressing onwards and upwards on the path of his own choosing, who has an empty wallet but feels constant passion for his work and has a permanent smile on his face is far more of a success than the depressed and bored 30-something with an ungrateful bitch at home, a belly, and a safe corporate desk job.

          [–]rajesh8162 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

          I'd give you gold if I had a job :) ♂

          [–]1Watermelon_Salesman 18 points19 points  (4 children)

          I think you might have missed the point, at least partly.

          The fact that you need escapism like Star Wars or other nerd fandom universe crap just outta Comic Con like Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, WoW, Marvel, most Anime etc, in order not to blow your brains out is exactly the problem he's trying to single out. We might have been missing out on some great stuff while we rewatch the original trilogy countless time or as we find our way through a videogame gunfight in a Tatooine cantina.

          Art shouldn't be seen as something you use as a mind-numbing drug to escape the harsh reality of your life. Art should be seen as something you explore with courage, something to immerse yourself into so that when you come out you're a better person, as it has inspired you and filled you up with new ideas and feelings.

          I'm not saying Star Wars is a bad film. I actually like it a lot, although the way it has become an escape route for an entire generation of men (myself included) is one of its flaws, not one of its merits. I like that movie because it's fun, and fun is fine as long as it doesn't take up much of your life, and I would stop my argument right there.

          Star Wars is, however, complete shit as a piece of "modern mythology", as it's 100% hero's journey copy&paste. It's the retelling of a very old story, based on very old, universal archetypes. You get the same narrative experience from The Odyssey or from a tarot deck. And as for the "creative genius", the only accomplishment there is how a director managed to create a seamless pot-pourri of very good references, since there isn't a single original idea in that film.

          [–]rajesh8162 1 point2 points  (3 children)

          There is this Indian mythology called "The Mahabharata". It is The Biggest tome on the planet ! There is no other story in existence across cultures and times that is bigger. It is in Sanksrit, which is widely considered a scholarly language. There is a saying that goes something like " If there is a story/emotion/theme that needs to be told, it has been told in the Mahabharata". The "Bhagavad Gita" which is the holy book of the Hindus is one of the eighteen books that make up the "Mahabharata".

          Most modern recountings and TV soaps blatantly strip the epic of all its meanings and metaphors that the story is all about! It is literally turned in to junk.

          That is why I have found that the best way forward is to go straight to the source. Whether it is "Patanjali's Yoga Sutras", "The Vedas" or the epics "Mahabharata" and "Ramayana".

          [–]1Watermelon_Salesman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          In film school we had a teacher that used to say that every story ever told falls into one of two categories:

          • someone goes on a journey
          • a stranger comes to town

          In reality, he was reducing everything to perspective, to a point of view, as the stranger coming to town is inevitably out on a journey, and the hero who departs also has to arrive some place, where he will inevitably be a stranger.

          [–]NewRoots 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Smart man, rare to see one like you.

          [–]rajesh8162 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Not smart, just more curious.

          [–]elevul 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Fantasy worlds have gotten me through some rough times and are one of the reasons I haven't blown my fucking brains out so far.

          Same here. Being actually valued and my effort and hard work rewarded in MMORPGs was the only thing that kept me alive in a certain period of my life.

          [–]suloco 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          Great post, OP, right on the money! There were only two male mentors in my life but I am so thankful for them.

          My father was a very stern and strict man. Not at all violent, but really demanding. Harsh on himself, harsh on others. Started his own company as soon as he could and devoted his life to the work. Many times I hated it, especially in puberty, but I realised that he had this sense of duty to provide for his family and to push the business forward which was very strong in him. Therefore he woke up in 5 AM, came home at 8 PM and worked from home till midnight. Drained him a lot but damn was that respectable. He tried to teach me accountability, responsibility and discipline but the young me never understood. He always said I will one day and now I do.

          My elementary school history/literature teacher was out of this era. He was like proper old-school: always suited up, 6 feet 10 inches, 220 lbs. and very respectable. He was much more demanding about our knowledge mind you not grades, knowledge, than other pussy teachers but was entirely fair and very respected. He had this oldschool attitude to life, taught us classics, history (in context no less!) and above all: morals. One day we were leaving on a field trip and this dude was being late because snacks. My friend, lets call him Bob Smith, said something along the lines of: "Eat faster or we'll help you!". The teacher just gave him the hardest look imaginable and uttered: "Are you a fascist, Smith?". The look on Bob's face is still imprinted in my memory.

          Damn, I should give that guy a visit..

          [–]arjuice 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          This topic is quite depressing. Throughout my life I also had a very limited number of role models.

          My father is a natural alpha. When I was young I didn't listen to him to my detriment. He was headstrong and I was your typical self-absorbed teenager. In my early 20s my attitude changed and I appreciated my Pops. These days we talk often and there is a mutual respect. I'm thankful for my father. The problem is he came from a different culture and different time. I love the guy and even he admits the west is "pretty fucked up" compared to back in the day.

          When I was a young kid I took Tae Kwon Do for several years and my primary instructor was a natural alpha. He started his own school and I went to train there. His whole world was Tae Kwon Do. This guy breathed it and you could FEEL the energy coming from him. He taught me honour, respect and the merits of camaraderie. He called me out on stupid things I said and taught me many masculine values I still hold on to. Unfortunately his wife whittled him down. He eventually got divorced and became a shell of the former strong man he was. He lost is business, his income, his family, his social circle and his passion was stamped out like the remnants of a campfire. He didn't become a "beta"; he just became a broken man.

          In grade school I was picked on a lot. Near the end of grade 7 one of the school headmasters plucked me out of gym one day and TOLD me that I was on the senior rugby team (I went through puberty shockingly quickly). At first I was apprehensive and pissed off like a whiny brat but being on a team saved my ass. He coached us all well and was not politically correct whatsoever. He gave slackers shit and made them do laps. He called us "Nancy's" when we half assed our drills. The rugby season was fairly short (maybe 1/3 of the school year had scheduled exhibition and league games) but we trained from September to June 4 days a week.

          He would scream from the sidelines to hustle during games and to bounce back fast when the other team was starting to get exhausted. This man took a lot of flack form the female teachers for being "too hard on the boys" but we grew to love it. I gained a lot of confidence towards the tail end of high school because I was on the team. Even the bullies backed off after word spread about how much ass I kicked as a second row lock. I learned to defend myself and hold frame amongst the bullies, male antagonists and douchebags I encounter in this world.

          Sadly throughout my whole life these are the only men I can recall who played a direct role in my life and provided male guidance. It's been over 10 years since I was on that rugby team. The real tragedy is that while I could have used more male role models in my life (especially when I was younger) I am still better off than a lot of young boys and underdeveloped men.

          This is a fucked up world we live in. Stay strong gentlemen.

          "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Friedrich Nietzsche

          [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Brilliant post.

          I'm lucky in that I had and have a strong father. Most men today don't have that in the results are evident.

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]TRP-Talk 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            It's tough man, but if you keep this up, you're going to burn out and die. Your choices and your actions determine your fate, and right now, the way you're choosing to live and act is unacceptable. For how much longer are you going to consciously accept the unacceptable? You know that what you're doing is what you can't be doing, and sooner rather than later, you have to stop. Stop sleeping through your first class. Stop pitying yourself and using that as an excuse to flake on the rest of your day. Stop avoiding the work that you should be doing. Stop doing the bare minimum. Stop being a lazy piece of shit. Stop saying that about yourself. Stop. Stop. Stop. Your habits are your life, and you've been reinforcing bad habits. Stop that. Get new habits.

            I know it's not easy, and not having good mentors may be a part of the reason why you don't have the skills to live your life right, but there ain't no superman coming to save you. You're going to have to become the kind of person who saves yourself. In order to do so, you're going to have to work. Effort, fortitude, perseverance, courage, temperance, and discipline are necessary. There's never a moment in your life when you don't know what you ought to be doing. It's just a matter of actually doing it! Or you can crap out and make excuses and blame it on any number of things, but that's just weakness.

            Eat better. Meditate. Get some sleep. Exercise. Cut out the obvious bullshit. Go to class. Study. Apply yourself. Start today. Make your habits work for you. You're just going to have to start doing these things. It's not all going to happen at once, especially if the habits are deeply ingrained, and you're probably not in the mood to work and be excellent, but you just have to start fucking doing it man. Stop accepting this for yourself and start doing the things you ought to be doing.

            As for the actual techniques of how, to a large extent you're going to have to figure out how on your own, but there are an infinite number of resources available to you on the internet and in literature, but there's a big difference between knowing what to do at the gym, and getting your ass to the gym. And you're going to fail and fail and fail and fail. I guarantee that. But you have to just fail less, and less, and less.

            But first and foremost it starts with quitting this chickenshit attitude and demanding better for yourself. If you're ready to do that, start right now. You can PM me if you need to.

            [–]rajesh8162 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Or maybe you are just an owl (from "owls and larks"). I am guessing you could do really complex and good work at night say till 2 am at least ? Don't blame yourself for your genes!

            [–]useyourmouth 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            I strongly recommend Dr. Leonard Sax's book "Boys Adrift."

            http://www.amazon.com/Boys-Adrift-Epidemic-Unmotivated-Underachieving/dp/0465072100

            Especially for any fathers here, concerned about these excellent points raised by JayGatsbyFan.

            [–]Santo26 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Thank you my friend for writing the truth

            [–]eatingcheetos 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Great post, sir. Very true, and i know from my experience of having a feminist mother and a beta father how damaging a lack of a good male role model is.

            [–]chainlinks 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            This is such a great post. You have stated what many of us in this forum feel but cannot express as eloquently.

            Many of us were raised by emasculated, absentee fathers.

            My best friend's father abandoned him when he was 4 years old. My father went bankrupt emptying his retirement account to fund another woman's family (child and husband) with whom he was never intimate.

            We often muse that the reason we feel so behind in life was because if the absence of a male mentor.

            This post hit very close to home for me. I feel energized by it. Thank you for your insight, I'm off to carpe diem.

            [–]Subcommandante_Khan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            The is the best post I have ever red on TRP.

            Kudos, kudos.

            [–]trped 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            This theory of mentoring is interesting as it shows that all boys look for a strong masculine figure to guide them to adulthood.

            However, being adult I think it's our duty and responsibility to become our own mentors and being able to think for ourselves and act for our best interest. Only then can we become mentor for others to bring them to adulthood.

            I'd like to add that it's a sad excuse that many men use: "I have never had a patriarcal figure so I crumbled and now I'm a sad individual who has managed nothing in his life". I'm a strong believer in autodeterminism and our capacity to become what we want to be. You have never had a mentor in your life? Well so be it, it's no excuse to not move forward and improve yourself.

            [–]walruskingofsweden 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            My father is a level 99 blue piller and it's sickening.

            [–]Nydusurmainus 4 points5 points  (7 children)

            Whilst I agree with a lot of your points a lot of this stems from us as men as much as it does feminism. When divorce took a huge surge in the 70's and 80's boys began to grow up without fathers. The 70's being the free love and do what you want era and the 80's being the live for yourself attitude very much corroded peoples perception on the meaning and responsibility behind being married and being a father.

            As we know in most cases women get custody over the children because statistically it is usually the men that leave. The age of modern self discovery brought about changes in male thinking and what arose is mostly negative in my opinion.

            The value of self sacrifice has been significantly diminished with selfish thinking and the value of a man taking the shit so his wife and kids can live comfortably is not an accepted attitude. Whilst this does have some influence from modern feminism as a collective males accepted it because to an extent it took the burden off them and was a typical symptom of Baby boomer/genx thinking.

            The other major change was the occurrence of the mid life crisis. With society and media constantly bashing the males mind with high expectations of success in monetary, business and status areas. Men would work towards these things like this was the main goal in life, often putting aside beautiful relationships with wives and children in pursuit of it. Once they reached their 30's-40's the sudden realization of what was going on upon self reflection leads to men yearning for a time when they were younger to try to get some of that time back. This often lead to affairs, buying ridiculous shit and crazy behaviour.

            At this point a man is fairly useless as a father and a husband because he is focusing on himself, his life revolves around him and not his family. We can blame feminism all we want but in a lot of ways it is just as much our fault as it is theirs.

            Also it is worth mentioning around this time there were major developments in behavioural medication. These women were all by themselves with a boy they cannot relate to or control so they turn to a doctor because they hear about a new treatment. The doctors at this stage were basically ALL male and what did they do? prescribe behavioural modifying medication. And guess what one of the reasons they would prescribe medication straight off the bat? because it meant more money and money meant success and success was status and this was the goal of a mans life.

            Generational change and selfish thinking were the ultimate downfall of fatherhood and male role models. Extremist feminism play some part but it was small compared to unwillingness of men to sacrifice and be unselfish, to weather the storm and look forward instead of chasing short term pleasures.

            Women are entitled to fight for equal rights and as males we will never know what their struggle in life is like. And as previously mentioned there are a lot of extremist groups within feminism that achieve nothing and are fighting for a female dominated society, the opposite of what true feminism ideals embrace. We all fight for our "rights" but what people always seem to forget is their responsibilities. Instead of saying "my rights as a man/woman are .............." Say "my responsibility as a man/woman is....". This applies to husbands and wives and to mothers and fathers.

            [–]noworriescc 2 points3 points  (2 children)

            The OP's message left me feeling bleak and without much reason to believe that there are people who will leave as much impact as Galileo or Shakespeare because of his passion without real scope of the problem. You, however, have been able to sift through some of the silt and see the truth with some clarity. It is an US problem, a WE problem. To single out Feminists alone seems to inflate their influence as well as diminish your (OP's) responsibility and agency.

            Your comment does recognize it is the culture, not merely the group, that is the problem. Both genders need to step up.

            [–]Nydusurmainus 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            Also one of the key gripes on this sub reddit is the victim mentality. Ultimately if we blame feminism for this kinda stuff we are doing the same thing.

            [–]hungry_horse 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Amen. The agent at fault is irrelevant. Fix yourself. Your change will influence the system. That is all you can do. Come to terms with that, and all of your grievances will fade away for good.

            [–]rajesh8162 0 points1 point  (3 children)

            I quite disagree. Most men I respect don't have a mad urge to earn money for it's own sake or an urgency to do so.

            In fact, it is only the event of marriage that sort of starts expecting more from him. There is a blind expectation that some how the "man" will manage the "household". When you put this kind of social pressure, it is obvious that the man will break and greed will prevail.

            Hope I have interpreted what you said correctly...

            [–]Nydusurmainus 0 points1 point  (2 children)

            You are only looking at one aspect of what I said. And my opinion that as MEN it is our responsibility to not break under the pressure as the man of the household. If a boy doesn't have a strong father he is in the same boat as the original post mentioned, this father could be a stay at home dad for all care the same thing applies.

            I quite disagree. Most men I respect don't have a mad urge to earn money for it's own sake or an urgency to do so.

            And that is just the point, men you respect are the ones driven by the right reasons. They perform their gender role, what they have the responsibility to be, for others and themselves.

            Social pressure is something we shouldn't bow too but it is a reality. The way you mention sounds like an excuse to me.

            [–]rajesh8162 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            What I am trying to put forward is that most of the times greed is a symptom of desperation. And most of the time, this desperation is an indirect result of an adulthood bred by feminism; where male mentorship was driven away.

            I am not suggesting that feminism is the devil, I am saying that greed is not a natural part of a boy's growth cycle. In my personal experience, it is my mother that always drove me to greed. And it was always negatively put forth.

            Another classic example is Peter Keating in the Fountainhead. I don't think it would be wrong to say that his mother's expectations of him, were one of the reasons that drove him to take the decisions that he does.

            Also, I don't believe that self-sacrifice is a good thing and selfishness is a bad thing. Ultimately men stand up to their responsibilities because of love and a spirit of sharing that they own. It has nothing to do with self-sacrifice. And it is extremely selfish, to use someone as an object of affection to fulfil ones own expression.

            [–]Nydusurmainus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Greed is most certainly not a symptom of desperation it is human nature. There is a saying "you never have to teach a child to do the wrong thing, they will figure that out for themselves" greed is part of self preservation.

            It sounds like you are approaching this from a personal level from just your experience. Your original post proclaimed your point of view as universal truth when in reality women are not the ones to blame.

            As for "the fountain head" I am not a particularly well read bloke. Appart from news stuff and reddit I read text books and the occasional biography so I don't know about that character and I can't comment but I would agree that parents have a massive effect on how their children behave. However if this boy in the book had a strong father figure this wouldn't have been the same problem.

            My whole spiel about self sacrifice is one I firmly stand my ground on because when life throws shit at you sometimes you have to pull up your boot laces and put aside your wants for the better of others. As for responsibilities they should have nothing to do with anything but the fact that it is your responsibility, doesn't matter if there is love, doesn't matter if there is sharing, doesn't matter how you feel and it doesn't matter the circumstances. If a soldiers responsibility is to fight then he would not be a good soldier if he disregarded his responsibilities for any reason. As for object of affection that is an abusive relationship which has nothing to do with my opinion on this.

            The simple truth is YOU ARE A MAN, fucking suck it up, you gotta be tougher than the world. Fuck all that politically correct bullshit and be all you can be, see something missing in the world? go fill that hole. In this case it is your responsibility AS A MAN to make sure that a lack of a male role model is something a boy/teenager should go through if you can help it (within reason). Not because you love and share feelings etc but simply because you are a man. It is your responsibility to not complain about it on the internet and blame others, because guess what? It changes FUCK ALL, so you may as well post this on /r/circlejerk.

            In your life you may have experienced a lack of a male role model which would create a huge bias in your views. I worked in child care for a while and I know what its like to be judged like you are a pedo if you even touch a kid. Heaps of them didn't have fathers or didn't have a father that was invested in them and some of the boys wanted to rough house, muck around and spend time with a positive male role model who was actually interested in what they had to say and what they wanted to do. Child care is a industry DOMINATED by women and they cannot meet those needs which only a father/male can provide.

            I only had these school kids for 2-3hrs everyday after school but I made sure I tried my very best to provide them with that friend/role model they wanted and needed. I could have done the same thing most of the other people did and stand around and talk to other staff and occasionally tell a kid off but I chose to sit with these kids for afternoon tea and to actually interact with them by playing games and showing interest in their lives. I'm sure people judged me in the wrong way but fuck them I knew my intentions and it was my responsibility to cover the gap where I could.

            If your past is one that lacked that role model you needed then consider 1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me." You have the power of hindsight and you can see the problem so what now?

            [–]1H42 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            All my adult life I have specifically avoided mentoring or helping children in any way. I avoid them like the plague.

            I realized that one false accusation, one misinterpreted accidental touch, could lead to imprisonment for child abuse or molestation.

            I correctly deduced that the risk was not worth any potential personal gain, so I have always shunned children.

            [–]Goonermuzzy 1 point2 points  (2 children)

            I will never bow down to the feminazis for as long as I live. Straight men built this world, why should we change?

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

            [deleted]

              [–]Goonermuzzy -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              Suck a dick you cunt, don't call me a shit head you bastard tranny. I didn't knock gays now did I?

              [–]GenuineBPA 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Really great quality post. it's great to say a post like this after all the to-validation seeking stuff we've been seeing posted all day.

              [–]snakelovermoraga 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              This also creates a society wherein teenagers aren't prepared for the emotional commitment of sexual intercourse until well after their hormones wear off and they become less interested. Evolutionarily speaking, we should be making babies starting at age 14, but we are not prepared for that sort of commitment until well into our 20s. I'm not saying kids in our society should be having kids, I'm just saying that our society has made that so, and it shouldn't be so.

              [–]enriquex 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Generation of men raised by women

              [–]zarus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              [–]-robknows- 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              wooaahhh, Dogs playing poker is good art, but that was just a bad example of your good point.

              You're absolutely right though, facts are being thrown out for "feelings" and shit like that and society hurts for it.

              [–]we_should 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              This is a good post. When I was growing up, I always admired my father. He was a hard worker, honest to a fault, loyal to his family and helpful to his friends and neighbors. He could build and fix anything. But he was never very deliberate about sitting me down and imparting wisdom. He wasn't much of a talker, even though his example spoke volumes. I was fortunate enough to have a great mentor in college who taught me a lot about critical thinking and introduced me to a lot of great books. Books are easy and cheap to acquire, and are a good way to begin one's self-education in masculine wisdom. A lot of bullshit gets posted on TRP and around the manosphere; trust more in ideas and thoughts that have withstood the test of time. The words of Aurelius, Shakespeare, Socrates will serve you better than some blowhard PUA wannabe who has held their reddit account for two months.

              Books will suffice you to start out with, but there's no substitute for a real flesh-and-blood mentor. Find one. Or two or three. Find guys who have tread the paths you want to tread. Men who are successful in business, successful with women, respected by their peers and community. A lot of older guys are happy to help along the ambitions and development of younger men. Warren Buffet once said, "The key to life is to figure out who to be the batboy for." Robert Greene has a great chapter about mentorship in his book Mastery. Included in that chapter is a great quote from Goethe: "A man of talent is not born to be left to himself, but to devote himself to art and good masters who will make something of him."

              [–]nerv9 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              As far as movies pertaining to this topic, The Hunt (director Thomas Vinterberg - streams on Netflix) also shows this issue. It's in Danish, so expect subtitles. Beautifully shot film would recommend even ignoring the message.

              [–]87GNX 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              I'll have to check that movie out.

              [–]duglock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              This is one of the reasons I love being in the Freemasons. I'm surrounded by good, solid guys that I know I can trust and I have a group of older, successful men that can mentor and give me advice. It wasn't until I had a group of mentors that it occurred to me how disadvantaged I was until that point.

              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Excellent thoughts. These are the sorts of posts that I most enjoy reading here.

              I wish I had had a true male mentor in my own childhood. My father was an alcoholic who was very Blue Pill while simultaneously being a huge bully. Sometimes adversity makes you stronger, but when you’re a child and your father deliberately treats you like shit, it just fucks you up. My entire adulthood has basically just been undoing the mess of my childhood, my family life being just one of several messes. But hey, you play the hand you’re dealt. I’ve pretty much learned everything in my life the hard way, but that, among other things, has made me a good mentor to other men.

              I have been a mentor to several young men throughout my life and it is amazing how common the problems are that men face and the standard advice usually does more harm than good. I find that the most common issues faced by young men are these (in no particular order):

              1. Understanding other people, especially women and those in authority. Young men are not only not properly taught how to effectively communicate with women and older men, but they’re taught techniques that are opposed to what actually works.

              2. Finding meaning and developing meaningful goals in life. Men are taught to be another cog in the machine and so many men feel despair at a life they wish would allow them more freedom and achievement, without knowing how to break away from the mold they’ve been placed into.

              3. Creative expression. Instead, they get gaming or drinking, neither of which are fulfilling compared to actually being able to create something from scratch using skills you’ve honed.

              4. Masculine expression and how to communicate with other men. As has been noted in this thread, these are quashed by society until men feel guilty about being competitive in sport, or laughing too loudly, or wanting to hunt their own food every so often, or playing rough, etc.

              I find that there are simple truths that underlie the solutions to all of these things. Life is meant to be simpler; the more we complicate it, the worse off we are. A lot of the time, I recommend men simplify their lives by cutting back the excess and adopting simpler lifestyles. It’s certainly worked for me.

              [–]1iluminatiNYC 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              I regret that I have one upvote to give. I do think the old regime had some real excesses that needed to be reformed. Women being beat up by dudes for reckless eyeballing or not letting a woman who wanted to bust her hump for something better is an unalloyed bad thing. However, instead of dealing with the problems, the belief is that the whole system was bad. I think a lot of babies were thrown out with bathwaters, and it's going to take a concerted effort to make things right.

              [–]analredemption12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Great read. Very provocative. Looking back, having good male mentors and teachers when I was young definitely helped shape me into a better man.

              Regarding your second paragraph, I agree that young men should be learning about all the great people and things you listed, but you can enjoy sports at the same time. I'm not a big sports fan and can only name a small list of players off the top of my head, but I know many well read guys that are big on that stuff.

              Also, appeasing the masses has been around for a long time. Just look at the Colosseum in Rome. I don't think sports is some kind of feminist plan to emasculate and dumb guys down. And I don't know what schools you went to, but I definitely learned about Shakespeare, Aristotle, Plato, Darwin, Homer, Mozart, Caesar, and Alexander The Great in class. You could start your own subreddit talking about curriculum, but suffice to say it would be impossible to assign all of the classics in a meaningful way without detracting from other important subjects.

              In the past, people learned from these guys because they didn't have history books. The Bible was the most education a lot of people had back in the day. Of course, a lot of feminist bullshit has crept its way into schools (No Child Left Behind, standardized testing, lack of male teachers), but you're comparing now to a world where pupils were few and had one-on-one mentorships. Most people that are wealthy still have those, but for the majority, things are so vastly different than they were back then. Poor people and girls are educated now and these are very new things that need to be worked out. We need to fix things like the 0-tolerance policy.

              Another very provocative movie that sheds light on the subject of men working with children is "The Hunt". It's in Danish which is interesting because like Sweden, it's a more feminist society.

              [–]thoramit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Outstanding post, thank you for taking the time to write it!

              [–]argunta 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              It all starts when you are young, the first day you begin school. As a man you are almost forced to be the nice guy and you never realize how wrong it is until you have women tear your heart out. You have to break the rules and be the bad kid in school in order for you to actually have success with the opposite sex.

              [–]AfatHippo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              I for one do not have a father that would teach me these things, which makes me extremely grateful for having found the Red Pill at such a young age of 17. My father was extremely beta, which inevitably lead to divorce around when I was 13. This is the point which I really should have been being taught alpha values, but instead I lived with a single mother and two sisters. Mom remarried, guy is still beta. Of course this meant that I was a depressed super-beta AFC who had given up on women completely.

              I was the perfect example to what is happening to boys all over the world as feminism grows and affects more families. It's sad, really. I have friends who I've been very close to who have just become slaves to their girlfriends.

              [–]AdmiralVonJackass 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Some of the most fulfilling times in my life were spending time with strong mentors. They were always up to something cool, joking, and having a good time. Back in an uncertain youth I looked to them for knowledge on the best way life should be lived.

              They were guide posts in the modern nihilistic haze that we live in. Where different interest groups are pulling you in their direction, and none of them are concerned with your well being.

              My brother got married after raising me like his son, and it crushed his spirit. After they had their first kid, it came out that his wife's father was a pedophile. So now his life revolves around her neurosis, and the needs of the children. He embodied what it was to be a free thinker, a risk taker. He doesn't want to lose his property and his money, so he just sits there, drinking every day, waiting to die I guess.

              [–]Rougepellet 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              The thing that pisses me of is when women, society, media, etc tell men they need to be beta and cut their balls of. Yet they want the alpha dude. Would be much better if they shut the fuck up and let men figure it out for themselves (I doubt they can be direct enough to tell us) than saying one thing and meaning the opposite. Their words loose value and I can't take them seriously. Everyone is being lied to. Everyone is lying to each other. Worse still, everyone is lying to themselves.

              [–]shanghai101 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              nice post but one sided. there's still plenty of men in silicon valley pioneering technology.

              but i can't say whether they're blue-pilled betas or not.

              [–]PlusGoody 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              It's still alive. I work in finance and live in an upscale suburb.

              At work, male mentorship is the rule. Women in the business are a distinct minority and tend to be conservative and traditional in their outlook and attitude.

              At home, SAHMs are the majority (80%+ of families) and boys are overwhelmingly focused on sports with about 100% leadership from dads at the earlier levels and professional male coaches at higher levels. The vast majority of dad's work in finance, corporate law, commercial real estate and the the male dominated medical specialties (surgery, etc) and so transmit a traditional masculine friendly expectation about the world without even trying.

              [–]Pdr_vzlr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Male mentors? But all man are rapists, that will hurt my feelings

              [–]garlicextract 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              This is an overall excellent post

              Great men like Aristotle, Plato, Tesla, Darwin, Michelangelo, Bernini, Homer, Virgil, Bach, Mozart, Caesar, Alexander The Great, are being left behind because of their "white privilege."

              What kind of stupid, irrelevant bullshit is this? It's just patently fucking false to an absurd degree, it's actually a bigger lie than shit feminists say. Sounds like a butthurt white guy spouting misinformation, in contrast to the rest of the post which is erudite. Leave this shit out of it, we don't need more people crying about"white privilege" being villified.

              Again, the rest of what you've written is fantastic.

              [–]skahler -3 points-2 points  (5 children)

              Um ok so one thing you can't do is say that feminism is resulting in our men not learning the great literature of the day. In fact, it's literally done the opposite. There is no greater proponent of English literature than the feminists. I am really confused as to what you're saying here.

              This sounds like "I want to be emotional, but feminism won't let me"

              I get that feeling, but the problem is you're forgetting something. You're forgetting your hunger, your desire, your fire on the inside to burn, fight, win.

              Smash. Pussy.

              That's it. That's how you become a man. When that becomes your goal, you develop the necessary characteristics to do so at an alarming rate. Don't forget this late at night and enter beta territory!! No excuses!! You can do it, man.

              Smaaaaasshhh pusssayyyyyyy

              [–]1TheReason13 6 points7 points  (0 children)

              We are not so different from the other mammals in the food chain in that mammals learn how to function successfully from mimicking their elders. An adult lion born and raised in captivity will not survive if released into the wild, its instincts will compel it to hunt but it will fail to execute the hunt successfully. Why? Because it simply wont know how. The lion had no source to learn how to use camouflage, patience, formation, stalking, strategy and surprise confusion to its advantage.

              If you were dropped into the amazon rain forest without supplies you would know what you have to do to survive but would not know how. You wouldn't know what is safe to eat, you would know that you need fire but won't know how without matches. You would know that you need to hunt but you won't know where to find or how to effectively trap and kill animals, neither would you have been taught to track and perceive the behavior and routes animals make habit of.

              Boys will of course grow up to be men, but they will not function successfully as men if they have no worthy mentors they can mimic and learn from. The developing young mind can only do so much with instinct alone, this is why the teachings of masculine virtue are so important to adolescents. We cannot simply grow into adulthood and become modern men, we must be taught what it is to be a man. And what we are taught in that respect will either prepare us, disillusion us or emasculate us psychologically based on who the teacher is (Feminist? Emasculated beta? Religious extremist?).

              [–]duglock 0 points1 point  (3 children)

              Smaaaaasshhh pusssayyyyyyy

              No offense, but I disagree with this completely. The worth of a man is independent of sex. I work in a business that deals with large sums. I am successful at it because people know my word means something and that I will stick with it no matter how tough things get, that I will find a way to succeed no matter what is thrown down in front of me. For someone to put their trust in you is achieved through character and perseverance, not smashing pussy.

              [–]skahler 0 points1 point  (2 children)

              No I feel ya. What I mean is that utilizing (harnessing) the natural instinct to "smash pussy" tends to bring to the forefront those alpha characteristics that are useful in all other walks of life since it requires a genuine rebuilding of subconscious (rather than conscious) tendencies, including elements of going to the gym, building testosterone levels (which aids in business building significantly), and other factors which generally produce an "alpha male" at the end.

              [–]skahler 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Also I noticed that there is an ethical component to your point, which I address simply by saying that "smashing pussy is ethical" if done in a straightforward manner (rather than cheesy fake shit, i.e. "conscious methods" which generally don't work anyway)

              [–]duglock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              That makes a lot of sense actually. If you start with a good foundation you will end up with a good finished product.

              [–]ubrayj02 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

              That is laying a lot on feminism, some of it undeserved.

              [–]BroccoBaba -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

              why do posts in this subreddit tend to be so long?