all 184 comments

[–]TFCNU 81 points82 points  (36 children)

Women complain all the time about guys who are "afraid" of commitment.

[–]5 Endorsed ContributorStayinghereforreal 146 points147 points  (4 children)

They are really complaining about how an out-of-reach alpha they desire is simply exercising his ability to bed other women.

[–]rztzz 46 points47 points  (3 children)

Spot on. And are unaware of just how low a majority of men will go for sex. An 8/10 guy will definitely use a 7/10 girl for sex, with no intention of ever committing.

It's not "afraid to commit" it's called "she's sleeping with guys out of her league"

This is why the smartest girls don't sleep with guys before date 4, and don't go for the generic alphas.

[–]5 Endorsed ContributorStayinghereforreal 37 points38 points  (0 children)

An 8/10 guy will definitely use a 7/10 girl for sex, with no intention of ever committing.

More like 4/10, depending on level of horniness and immediately available options. Mot guys have that one woman they got with and then later said, "What. the. hell. possessed. me...? /facepalm"

[–]CornyHoosier 33 points34 points  (1 child)

An 8/10 guy will definitely use a 7/10 girl for sex, with no intention of ever committing.

lol 7/10!?

I'd say much lower than that. Alcohol is a helluva drug!

[–]mynewaccount42 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

A few weeks ago I was high on 4mg of xanax and started hitting on my sister's fat friend who's always had a crush on me. Thankfully she has some basic human decency and didn't fuck me while I was slurring and about to pass out.

[–]100 Modbsutansalt[S] 65 points66 points  (23 children)

And yet they initiate the overwhelming majority of divorces. Go figure.

[–]myschadenfreude 82 points83 points  (0 children)

"I'm not afraid of commitment, far from it, I'm correctly cautious of your level and duration of commitment." - Tell a woman that and her head explodes.

[–]1renzy77 97 points98 points  (20 children)

To women, commitment means getting married. To men, commitment means staying married. Men aren't the ones with the commitment problem.

[–][deleted]  (4 children)

[deleted]

    [–]hashtagpound2point2 27 points28 points  (3 children)

    This is something that should have been way more obvious to us in our BP days.

    Watch a woman plan her own wedding and see her work harder for her it than she ever has and will for her husband.

    [–]PlanB_pedofile 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    Biggest blue pill bullshit ever uttered "happy wife, happy life"

    It's "happy husband, happy wife"

    As long as the man is happy and fulfilled, he'll pour that happiness over to his partner.

    [–]turtlesat 10 points11 points  (0 children)

    Watch a woman plan her own wedding and see her work harder for her it than she ever has and will for her husband.

    This +1000000000

    [–]91_til_infinity 15 points16 points  (0 children)

    Very true. Men take commitment far more seriously than women. This deliberation is often mistaken as hesitation.

    [–]17 Endorsed ContributorJP_Whoregan 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Extremely poigniant statement. I will definitely use this the next time some harpy starts whining and carrying on about guys being "non-committal".

    If I could give you a delta point on a Mac I would.

    [–]skoobled 12 points13 points  (1 child)

    Close. Women want to GET married, men want to be married. Ie. Women focus on the white wedding and immediate status boost they get. They seem to think almost nothing about after the honeymoon.

    Men, on the other hand, see the ritual as an expensive and time wasting distraction. They do, however, see the ideal of a caring and attentive long term partner as appealing, though. In fact, plenty of studies show that men benefit more from marriage emotionally, at least up until the point it starts fucking up

    [–]DrXaos 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    | In fact, plenty of studies show that men

    | benefit more from

    s/benefit more from/appreciate more/g

    |marriage emotionally, at least up until the point it starts fucking up

    Women benefit from marriage more than men, yet seem to appreciate the benefits less than men.

    [–]17 Endorsed ContributorJP_Whoregan 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    Here's that delta. I can only do this at work when I'm on my shitty Windows computer.

    [–]Upvote Me!trpbot[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Confirmed: 1 point awarded to /u/renzy77 by JP_Whoregan. [History]

    [This is an Automated Message]

    [–]squishles 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    If you want to type funny characters on a linux machine or mac, ctrl+shift+u then release the u holding the control and shift; then type the Unicode value.

    or dunno why no one thinks of copy pasting it =/

    ... have a star ★

    [–]doveenigma13 1 point2 points  (7 children)

    I'll disagree. Women will stay married if you let them cuckold you. They will do anything to keep themselves from looking like the bad guy.

    [–]UrRealDad 20 points21 points  (4 children)

    NEVER underestimate a woman's ability to twist reality to make herself the victim. Why do what is right when you can do whatever you want and still not feel any guilt?

    A woman will only stay married if she feels it will benefit her more than leaving.

    [–]100 Modbsutansalt[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    A woman will only stay married if she feels it will benefit her more than leaving.

    Notice my emphasis on "will". It's Briffault's Law all over again. The vows, past investment, none of that matters. It's all about what they have to look forward to. Well, sorta. Sunk cost fallacy can rear it's ugly head as well, so that could keep women in a relationship longer than they would stay had they not invested into the relationship themselves.

    [–]doveenigma13 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    True. If it benefits her more leaving she will, but a lot of times it benefits them very well staying married to their beta sugar daddy.

    [–]johnnywahd 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    "...it benefits them very well staying married to their beta sugar daddy." As long as they can get their Alpha poundings on the side behind Beta husbands backs it works out just fine for these ladies.

    [–]Kaelteth 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    I disagree entirely.

    Women will stay married if they can't cuckold you.

    The second you give them the power in the marriage in almost any way, its doomed to divorce. You can't be cuckolded if you don't allow it.

    Its the standard lesson here folks - you must always maintain frame, whether you're getting laid for a night or wanting a lifetime. The second you become the beta bitch, you're done.

    [–]doveenigma13 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    That would have been true in the past, and may be true in some cultures. Modern American households are doomed from the start. They will eventually wear you down to beta, or divorce you and take half your stuff because you were an abusive a-hole. They will make it look like you were the bad guy eventually.

    (I'm a bit jaded on marriage right now)

    [–]CreepAcceptance 46 points47 points  (2 children)

    The word choice says it all. "Afraid" is typical shaming language used to try and manipulate by playing on the typical masculine desire to appear strong and fearless. Transparent and dumb.

    Any woman who goes on about guys "being afraid to commit" has told you a lot about herself. Particularly that the men in her past have judged her not worth committing to, aka she's stuck in the fuck-zone. There's probably a good reason why.

    Fuck chuck next.

    [–]myschadenfreude 14 points15 points  (0 children)

    She's almost always >30 and all her friends are getting married.

    [–]skoobled 11 points12 points  (0 children)

    I'm going to use "stuck in the fuck zone". I've even met women who don't seem to realise that for men sexual desire ≠ desire for long term commitment. They rationalise that they can "get" men if they can find men who want to fuck then. Wrong. That test is if they can KEEP him

    [–]1IVIaskerade 12 points13 points  (0 children)

    Uh, yeah. Have you seen what they do to guys willing to commit?

    [–]1tombreck2 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Women are attracted to a man that other women find attractive. Thus, this man has no reason to settle down with just one.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    No only women who cannot obtain commitment complain about guys who are afraid of commitment.

    Only men who cannot get pussy are those who complain about women who don't put out.

    [–]theozoph 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Perhaps we should launch a counter-cultural meme about how women are "afraid of freedom"...

    [–]5 Endorsed ContributorStayinghereforreal 182 points183 points  (40 children)

    Women typically feel they are entitled to friendship the option to call on a male for his attention or resources when it suits them

    It is really about a woman wanting to keep a sexless harem of males who will provide as "backup" in case they cannot swing to higher branches.

    [–]kanaduhisfruityeh 123 points124 points  (34 children)

    That's why they're always pushing the sexless "friendship" BS. I don't want to be a woman's sissy homosexual BFFF. I want to pound her vagina with my penis.

    If a woman was a real "friend" she'd recognize my sexual needs. Yes, that's right, I'm a man and I like to have sex with young female women. I know, I'm worse than Adolf Hitler and the Boston Strangler because I follow the laws of nature that have kept the human species going for hundreds of thousands of years.

    If a female doesn't want to have sex with me but wants to be my friend she should help to hook me up with other women who will have sex with me. But in reality, most female "friends" will just keep you hanging around and sexually deprived just in case, and won't want you to have sex with other women, so that if they're ever desperate you'll be there as a backup option.

    [–]widec 49 points50 points  (0 children)

    Whenever I make a comment on another subreddit about women who lead guys on, it gets downvoted to hell. I'm starting to think they get the wrong impression, and that I mean guys who don't make their intentions clear and say they are in the friendzone. But what I really mean is the women who will stroke your arm or constantly demand attention, yet when you ask them out they'll look at you like if you just asked if you could kick their dog.

    [–]Dick-Tracy 47 points48 points  (13 children)

    Why would they hook you up with other women? You would no longer be their beta orbiter.

    [–]Throwaway_SEERED 44 points45 points  (11 children)

    Exactly. And plus, all of her friends would know your her beta orbiter and they wouldn't hook up with you. They'll all look at you like a little bitch.

    [–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (6 children)

    Exactly. Negative social proof.

    [–]slcjosh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Because you ARE a bitch in this scenario.

    [–]Pornography_saves_li 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    Depends. If she's the hottest in her circle of friends, the rest will still give you the eye. If she's the 'fat friend', the friend they keep so they look better by comparison....well, then you're fucked. And not in the good way.

    [–]Throwaway_SEERED 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    He will get devoured by the land whale. Painful shit.

    [–]Pornography_saves_li 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Depends on the scale you're working on. If the 'fugly' chick is a 7, for instance, most guys would be OK with that.

    There are no absolutes in the red pill.

    [–]skoobled 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    Yep. There is literally nothing in it for you. They will actively cock block you if they need to. If you've reasonably expressed your romantic interest, and she's knocked you back, then you both need to realise that your interaction as two human beings is wholly and completely OVER

    [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

    If a girl "friend" has never been attracted to you / hooked up with you, her friends probably aren't going to be either.

    [–]Christian_Kong 29 points30 points  (4 children)

    Most females dont have female friends. They have girls they know and will then talk shit about why they suck.

    [–]-rubashov 16 points17 points  (0 children)

    My great auntie once told me - I was about 8 - 'Women don't have friends.. just social groups'

    [–]asdfghjkltyu 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    Its often staggering how much shit women will talk behind each others backs given half the chance.

    [–]swishman 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    thats interesting thats why they need a man in their life so badly

    [–]user_none 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    A man is the calm to a woman's storm, their great equalizer, their rock.

    [–]nomdplume 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    If a female doesn't want to have sex with me but wants to be my friend she should help to hook me up with other women who will have sex with me.

    One of my best friends is an extremely attractive woman. We don't have sex (anymore). We treat each other like family.

    Besides providing an incredible level of social proof when we go out together, she is also one of my best wingmen. More than once, when a woman I'm flirting with has turned to her to see if I'm legit (happens often since I'm married), she has said, and I quote, "If you ever get a chance to fuck him, you should. He's amazing in bed!"

    One time, I told a girl that I'm married, but said friend was my girlfriend. The girl thought she'd call me out to my friend, but when she tried, my friend just came over to me, snuggled in close, planted a sensuous kiss, and said, "I know - isn't he lucky?"

    Gotta love my friends.

    Just thought I'd throw that in there - cool women friends can happen. I agree that many (especially young ones) may take advantage of male friendship, but some won't (especially if you're good at setting boundaries with your friends).

    [–]2NiftyDolphin 19 points20 points  (0 children)

    Hey now, NAWALT.

    There are some that keep the orbiters orbiters for maintenance projects, feeding their pets when they're on vacation, and moving heavy things.

    [–]Ulquiorra_Schiffer 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Then there is also the Hamplanets who bitch and moan about patriarchy and their oppression, because an Alpha won't give them the time of day and they feel entitled to his cock.

    [–]Manuel_S 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Because that would be "judging" women. We don't do that.

    MEN used to do that. Not now. men have learned how to behave.

    [–]TaylorWolf 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Still wrapping my head around this one.

    I have NEVER ONCE met a guy that does this with fat/ugly chicks. A guy would bang them that night if he had no one else. Not keep her near for months/years just in case.

    [–]SpicedRifle 45 points46 points  (10 children)

    Men feeling entitled to sex = Gross betas who don't know their place.

    I'd argue women have at least the same sense of "entitlement" that men do, anyway. This sub is full of stories of women who go psycho when you tell them no.

    [–]topspeedj 44 points45 points  (8 children)

    Rejecting sex from a woman makes them go psycho because you show them that you give zero importance to their only power.

    [–]CrimsonTideCosby 25 points26 points  (5 children)

    Only power? You're forgetting about the tears. They have two moves, show some respect.

    [–]1rife_omeqa 10 points11 points  (4 children)

    The irony is that their second power (tears) is reliant on the scorn of other men.

    The only power women innately have is their vagina. The power of tears is them calling for backup when the gash doesn't work.

    Reminds me of a clip on here a few weeks ago of two female UK cops getting manhandled by a single teenage guy when they tried to restrain him. A comment in that post perfectly described the power of female "force". "The only power female cops have is the power to get male cops there very quickly".

    [–]topspeedj 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    "The only power female cops have is the power to get male cops there very quickly".

    Haha, that's hilarious. My ex is a cop now and while I did get her into lifting, she's still no match for any man.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–]PizzaismyJam 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Edit: only (over a rational male)

      [–]jmg83 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I've done this to two women. Both of them asked me if I was gay. One if them asked me if I had HIV.

      [–]ISODAK 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      A greater sense of entitlement, unquestionably.

      [–]Dark triad expert: - http://illimitablemen.com/ - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 83 points84 points  (18 children)

      Women have a great capacity for using men for as much as the man will allow himself to be used for whilst granting him nothing in return. Capitalising mainly on the attraction said man feels for said woman, which she does not reciprocate. Instead of being open and honest and letting said man know she isn't interested, she exploits his attraction for personal gain. Women hamster around this shit and pretend they are legitimate platonic friends and that nothing is one-sided (a very rare arrangement) but really she just has him pegged as a bitch - he is what is known as AN ORBITER. Someone who is constantly around and available to her, a phone call away, ready on her whim to carry out whatever favour of the day the bitch in question needs. That's not friendship, that's exploitation. Especially if she expects that because "she's the woman" but wouldn't do it in return.

      Women see orbiters as:

      • Backup dick for when shit hits the fan with the BF. The hotter she is, the more orbiters she'll have. The #1 orbiter gets to have emotional pity sex with her when she's low and she splits with her BF. She'll either be so damaged from the break-up she'll actually downgrade to #1 orbiter as an LTR, or she'll get back with her BF tell the orbiter it's a mistake and how she never should have done it and they were better off as friends and she doesn't want the sex to ruin anything and blah blah blah. Basically a flowery version of "get back in the friend zone bitch."

      • Sympathisers who will come to her aid when having problems with said BF or a female friend, an employer etc

      • Validation givers/ego feeders/narcissistic supply

      • Favour givers - help her move, taxi her around, buy her some food, get her a drink, do shit for her to make her life easier in general, involves you spending money on her without actually giving her money, saves her money on getting her own shit, paying for an actual taxi, buying her own food and etc.

      • A way to make their BF jealous and leverage him, basically dread game. A BF whose girl has 5-10 male friends is going to be way more paranoid than a guy whose girl only has female friends. Of course if the guy voices his paranoia, she will shame him as being unreasonably paranoid, controlling and blah blah blah and that she's known these guys a long time and won't get rid of them for anybody. Basically it's manipulative bullshit.

      I remember once a girl I knew was trying to get me to orbit (co-worker), but I had no interest. She asked me if I could help her carry some furniture (I'm built) from the store to her house. Her house wasn't far from the store, but it was heavy, and she had a lot of stairs to go up, as well as lots of long winding corridors until you got to her apartment (it was in a block.)

      I said nothing.. gave her a funny look and she said "I can pay you" I said "how much? make it worth it" and she just dropped the conversation. You see she didn't want to give me value for helping her do something that adds value to her life, she just wanted to use me as a tool for adding value to her life. She said she'd pay me as a shit test hoping it'd activate my "kindness" and say "oh no don't worry about that, you ain't gotta pay" so then she could go go "oh really are you sure? you're so kind" and get a favour out of me, or some shit like that. It's not like we were good friends, and she's asking me to put myself out for her in a way that MY REAL FRIENDS VERY RARELY ask me to. Note my real friends are all men. Not someone abusing the label of "friend" or "acquaintance" to try and get favours out of me.

      I have practically no white knight instinct in me at all and see right through these stupid games. These stupid games where they FALSELY offer to pay (be it a date, or some fuel money, or for helping them do something) and only do so for plausible deniability hoping it will entice you TO OFFER IT FOR FREE so then if you ever use it against them or realise they are taking the piss out of you they can go "WELL YOU OFFERED I DIDN'T MAKE YOU" and then they can frame you as the bad guy and convince the hamster that they're the victim and you're the one in the wrong (women need to do that to fuck with you.)

      However, if you actually take them up on their offer of payment, they'll roll their eyes like "this guy doesn't get it, you weren't meant to say that, you were meant to just be a good little beta and offer me free shit" which will elicit a raised eyebrow back of "I do get this shit, and that's why I'm not fucking helping you with your shit." You see when male friends offer to pay their way it's because - THEY DON'T WANT TO TAKE THE PISS BUT NEED MY HELP. These bitches expect benefits/perks for free BECAUSE THEY'RE WOMEN HIGH ON THEIR OWN SELF-IMPORTANCE TRYING TO ENJOY THE BENEFITS OF FEMINISM AND TRADITIONALIST CHIVALRY AT THE SAME TIME. So you accept their FAKE offer of payment and they back the fuck down with a "never mind" or they pay begrudgingly, giving you a funny look or some shit like that.

      Friendships with women are one-sided. 99% of the time they aren't even fucking friendships. It's her getting you to do shit on her terms that benefits her knowing the only reason you do things for her is because you think she is hot, but she wont fuck you, because she knows as soon as she fucks you once you'll expect it repeatedly and she'll lose leverage over you. These bitches are relentless, utterly manipulative and shamelessly selfish. Female sexual strategy 101 - swoon after guys out of your league and collect betas in your, slightly above your, and beneath your league as a social cushion. I'm quite sure some women actually collect betas just for all the prizes and feel good emotions.

      Be careful being friends with women, especially if she's attractive/you find her attractive or you're beta with a scarcity mindset. It's not usually worth your while, and you're usually just getting pegged for a specific role in her cuddle bitch hierarchy. You can be #1 cuddle bitch that gets to spoon with her, you can be the bitch boy that goes shopping with her, you can be taxi guy, you can be starbucks + gossip guy, you can be "male perspective" guy, you can be "gay best friend" guy, you can be "I see you like a brother I'm in love with how safe you make me feel because you're tall and I love the commitment/puppy eyes you give me but I don't wanna fuck you" guy. You can be a lot of different roles that a boyfriend should provide for her, in fact you can be one of many things which are all contradictory in one guy and thus need to be spread out upon multiple guys so she can enjoy all the varying elements of "the being in a relationship experience," Except you don't get to fuck her, you don't get to go past hugging, even a kiss is too much - and if you do - she will try and shoot your shit down like you're some kind of creepy cunt whose face belongs in a paedophile mug shot. She will make you pay in shame and emotional pain for your transgression of the firm boundary she has in place.

      You chronic fucking nice guys with your 1,000,000 female friends who "get on better with women than they do with men" have been fucking warned. Men may be less superficially warm and fuzzy but at least they are straight with you. They don't fuck with you like this, they don't lead you down the garden path and raise your hopes up about what your friendship means only to DENY you every time you leave your boundaries, just to shame you back into place so you continue providing them one SPECIFIC benefit. That's not a fucking friendship, it's a one-way street of exploitation that she calls a friendship to give the sordid arrangement some veneer of otherwise non-existing credibility. Obviously assuming you're not gay, there's no sexual tension, so that makes shit easier, but the why's are largely irrelevant - it is what it is.

      Now alphas and men on top of their shit can turn this crap around and get women doing shit for them, they can flip the dynamic with their higher SMV, and that does happen, and again, that's not real friendship. Legit platonic two sided cross gender friendships are rare, generally speaking the chick should be UNATTRACTIVE to you. Or a hot "wing woman" you use for dread/preselection but don't fuck because you want to retain her for these roles specifically. The average guy however should just stay the fuck away, she will out-manipulate you and play you for a fool. You'll think she is your friend because you're an idiot, but you're just orbiting, waiting in a long line of other clueless men who are all hoping to fuck her one day whilst dispensing favours out the ass.

      [–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad 21 points22 points  (0 children)

      "Cuddle bitch hierarchy." That really nails it.

      She either wants to fuck your Alpha dick, ignore you as if you didn't exist, own your Provider ass, or friend-zone you for non-sexual benefits. Within the first 5 minutes, she already has you pegged as Lover, Loser, Provider, or Friend.

      [–]pjecki 6 points7 points  (1 child)

      [–]Dark triad expert: - http://illimitablemen.com/ - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 11 points12 points  (0 children)

      Damn you give me karma out the ass. Now I need to find a Bureau de change (money exchange) so I can cash this shit in.

      [–]Throwaway_SEERED 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      I had this bitch I was "friends" with call me up about a month ago. I hadn't talked to her for 2 years and she calls me up demanding that I drive 35 minutes to come pick her up to take her to a hospital that was 7 minutes from her house because her crazy ass boyfriend put himself in there. I didn't do it. This bitch is left overs, how much of a delusional cunt do you have to be to stoop to that level? Bitch needs to get a car and a better job and grow the fuck up. RP men don't play that shit.

      [–]1johnnight 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      You make an important observation. To use somebody's attraction, it is necessary for the user to be not attracted in return. Otherwise it's a two sided attraction and this makes it difficult to be the exploiter.

      In other words, if she is demanding you to do stuff for her, that IS the proof of her lack of attraction. She is choosing you (that orbiter nice guy below her league) to be used precisely because for the difference in attraction that is in her favor.

      There is an exception to this and it's asking for small favors that are a pretext for spending time together where "something could happen", if the guy makes the move. Carrying a couch is a big favor, repairing the stereo system that she deliberately pulled the cables from (true story) is a pretext.

      [–]Overkillengine 5 points6 points  (1 child)

      I've got a phrase for that irritatingly common behavior: treating men like Ala Carte. You only get to be a particular item she is craving at that moment and nothing else.

      You can only counter it by refusing to show up unless she wants you to be the whole meal. All or nothing.

      [–]Misteralcala 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      In which case, she may pass, because there are a million beta bitches who crave female attention waiting for their turn in line. But that's OK. We've got better shit to do than be her time hoe.

      [–]Smekiz 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      This so much. Female friends are fucking unicorns, even if you actually aren't interested in sex, she'll still treat you like the orbiter, those friendships doesn't last long if there's no incentive to actually put up with all the non-reciprocal shit

      [–]curious97 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      fuckin a this is what I consider the "friendzone" to be. Next time some chick tells me it doesn't exist i'll repeat this in PC language, thanks m8

      hot "wing woman" you use for dread/preselection but don't fuck because you want to retain her for these roles specifically.

      My ONE AND ONLY true female friend I use for this. She's also quite an interesting character to talk to but only fucks with blacks and arabs so I never even tried to fuck her. I still don't, because I realize that using her for the above-mentioned reason is very, very useful.

      [–]EmperorAurelius 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Fuck. You described me perfectly. How do I become so fucking awesome, like you ?!?

      [–]Misteralcala 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      You ask yourself 'What do I gain from this experience you're offering me?' if the answer is 'nothing' or 'I stand to lose, not to gain from this', then you know that your reply to such offers would be a polite "No thank you, I'm busy."

      [–]boxofcookies101 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I couldn't agree more however I do have an experience of a true female friend. However we fuck and keep it entirely friendly you know? I agree that most men and women can't be friends. But if you can actually manage to get a good FWB it can really turn into a great friendship. Beneficiary for both parties.

      [–]Tom_The_Human -1 points0 points  (4 children)

      a hot "wing woman" you use for dread/preselection

      How do I acquire without looking like a friendzoned beta bitch?

      [–]Dark triad expert: - http://illimitablemen.com/ - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 2 points3 points  (3 children)

      Befriend her without failing any/many of her shit tests or demonstrating low status. You can do nice shit for her to disarm her. Like say you know she likes a certain kind of coffee (you could simply ask one time,) and bring it along another accompanied by a "drink up, I'm in a good mood" or some shit like that. Your terms. You do it because you want to. You won't do it whenever she asks and you won't make a habit of it. You'll do it spontaneously so it adequately throws her off her guard and gets her feeling positively towards you. Of course there is a danger you peg yourself as a provider doing this shit, so that's why it's important to control your own generosity (like an alpha shares) and not let her control and dictate it via shaming tactics and manipulation (how a beta shares.)

      When she asks you to get her something, eg: that coffee you got her before, refuse and say "get your own shit princess" with a shit-eating grin. You have to set the kind of boundaries that say "I can be a decent guy, but on my own terms." You balance "go fuck yourself" with "here, have a bagel" just enough that you can effectively friend zone her. If you're uncontrollably attracted to her though, it won't work. If you want this kind of arrangement, it helps that you already have a hot woman or two in your life so that the addition of another doesn't overwhelm you and cause you to want to "make her yours" thus compromising the whole idea that you turn her into a wing woman. You must become desensitized to female beauty to the extent you don't let it takeover your frame. Working in environments where there are a lot of beautiful women (or being gay) helps with this shit.

      To be really simple, if I want to fuck a girl, I will shit test her ferociously, I will not try to connect with her, I will tease her and be a total asshole. It's pure attraction building.

      If I were to try and make a hot woman a useful ally, I'd defend against her shit tests whilst deflecting some back (pressure flip,) but I would also do things I don't do with women I intend to fuck, like ask her shit about her family and her life. I will try to build comfort with her, by having a civil and "fun" conversation with her, but reject all her attempts to get me on the hook for something. In a way I will force her to respect me as an actual fucking person, and not someone who will just do shit for her. Because women, especially hot women, correlate a man being cordial and civil with them as "scheming to get in her pants" and so try to manipulate you accordingly into fulfilling a role for them that placates Briffaults Law. You have to ring-fence yourself from this shit by setting firm boundaries.

      I will give no sign I want to fuck her and I won't sexualise shit, which with hot girls, really throws them off and may inadvertently make them interested in you. She will invariably talk your ear off so you have to curtail it "I was showing an interest in you, I didn't need a dissertation" followed by a wink or smirk. Gotta be expressive with women because they're easily offended and like to spin things with false indignation so the tone/context is basically everything. When they get all hysterical shame them for being unable to handle a joke in a dismissively comedic tone. Basically, amused mastery + dont qualify yourself to her + don't jump through hoops + pass shit tests. Do things for her to influence her, but choose what those things are, don't do what she wants you to do. Do what you want to do to influence her and build comfort on your terms, otherwise you're doing what she wants you to do and it's she who is influencing you rather than the other way around.

      [–]DRMMR76 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      Spot on. It's essentially playing her game against her. Women will give an orbiter just enough attention or physical IOIs to keep him thinking he has a chance and keep him in line, but never if he asks for it or makes the move himself. She gives this attention on her terms with the specific goal of giving you just enough hope not to give up, but never enough to make you step out of line. What you're describing is essentially doing the same thing back to her. Brilliant.

      [–]Dark triad expert: - http://illimitablemen.com/ - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      I'm thinking this topic may be blog post worthy. Not sure though. I'll chuck it in my ocean of drafts.

      [–]OpiumPhrogg 23 points24 points  (2 children)

      Reminds me of an episode of American Dad I caught about 2 Sundays ago. Some real hot babe moves in next door and the boy and all his friends swoon over her. She dresses all provocatively and they keep trying to figure out ways to "come over" ( baseball in the back yard type stuff ). Eventually she gets them to clean her swimming pool, redo the siding, and pretty much remodel the house. Then they find a new family in the house, catch her as she is packing up her car to leave, and find out she is a real estate agent / house flipper and has just used her sexual allure to get all the boys to do all the remodeling work for her. She even tells them as much before driving off into the sunset (she keeps all the money, tells the boys they got paid by learning new skills) in search for a new house and group of neighborhood boys she can use to flip the house.

      I didn't really think of it in a Red Pill, Woman's nature context until reading this post and the replies. Interesting, thanks.

      [–]smokeybehr 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      That's why you get the pussy first, and do the stuff after; or you do a little, fuck a little, do a little more, etc. It's like a contractor taking a draw on the construction loan when building a house.

      [–]kanaduhisfruityeh 40 points41 points  (7 children)

      Last time I checked a lot of men just get porn and jack off to it if they're not getting laid. But women who aren't getting enough attention are attacking men's private porn consumption because they want to shut down the competition and rape men into dating them. So who has the entitlement complex?

      [–][deleted] 24 points25 points  (6 children)

      Is there a female equivalent to porn in that sense? "Friend porn?" A tube site where hot guys look at the camera and say shit like, "let me help you move that sofa." or "I totally understand that you couldn't make it to my graduation. Tell me about your new boyfriend, hon!"

      Maybe there's an untapped market.

      [–]The_TRP_Account 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      I'm quite sure there was an episode of 30 Rock about this. Liz Lemon (Tina Fey) created a channel where a good looking, sensitive guy paid compliments to the camera, was sympathetic, and pretty much said a bunch of agreeing phrases and sat there listening. It was pretty damn brilliant and that's how they framed it -- as the porn equivalent for women. Wish I could find a clip of it.

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      This is actually pretty brilliant. It sounds therapeutic.

      Imagine a film of some attractive model guy speaking sweet nothings into the camera, with a background setting of a park, or a wedding or something.

      On another channel there is another model available who is some sort of biker badass, and he is talking dirty talk, in some dirty titty bar...

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Nice. I like the categorical aspect. Instead of "amateur," "threesomes," "Asian," "BDSM," etc. you get "good listeners," "home repair," "bad boys," and the like.

      [–]brotherjustincrowe 34 points35 points  (8 children)

      Being "friends" with this type of female is like saying the ungrateful, lazy leech who crashes on your couch, eats your food, drinks your beer, smokes your pot, monopolizes your TV and bathroom and keeps borrowing money with no intention of paying it back is a "friend". You don't keep a parasite like that around, you kick their asses out on the street. Full stop.

      Friends are the people who will come pick you up from jail at 4 a.m. when they have work 2 hours later. Has a female ever done that for a male "friend" once in history?

      [–]1Dev_on 22 points23 points  (5 children)

      for me, yeah. I got two of them, and the chicks are great. Neither one is datable for me, but are great wingmen in their own rights.

      Plus, the one thing you need to be able to call on a girl friend for is to prepare to beat the shit out of another girl starting crap with you. My best female friend is pretty good at BJJ, so she's always got my back, now a bouncer wanting to white knight doesn't know who to back

      [–]GC0W30 4 points5 points  (2 children)

      for me, yeah. I got two of them, and the chicks are great. Neither one is datable for me, but are great wingmen in their own rights.

      Well, there are TWO on whatever continent you're on, and you got both of them. Congrats!

      [–]jonsy777 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      i will agree. there are girls out there who basically function as guys in their relationships/friendships. I wouldn't even consider dating my best female friend, but she basically acts like a guy, so it makes sense that she's as chill as she is....

      [–]1Dev_on 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      same here. I've been in the navy for almost 12 years, and the one friend I was talking about has more tattoos than me. Anchors, doves, the works. I always joke that she's more sailor than I am, and she's a spa therapist

      [–]dsizzler 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Absolutely yes... Hang out with better people.

      [–]nomdplume -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      Friends are the people who will come pick you up from jail at 4 a.m. when they have work 2 hours later.

      None of my friends, male or female, would do that for me. And I wouldn't ask it of them, either.

      I'm not even sure if my wife would. She would probably be looking for any way to punish me at that point.

      If a friend asked me to do that for them, I don't know what I would do. I would probably feel obligated to (I can't imagine leaving someone hanging if they needed me for something so dramatic), but, unless they paid me back in spades, chances are our friendship would cool significantly afterwards.

      At some point, I think that most mature people realize that they are mostly on their own in life. You should only count on others to a point, regardless of any drunken impassioned declarations to the contrary.

      Especially if you are the kind of fuck up who lands in jail.

      [–]TheYoungPatriarch 13 points14 points  (2 children)

      Forgive me for going out on a limb. But, I think this has to do with what Rollo described as the propensity for women to confuse their self-worth with their sexual attractiveness. (Despite all the whining about how they are sex objects)

      The article is here.

      I think the logical extension of this is that women also take it as an affront to their self worth if you deny friendship as well . "Friendship" is weird social dynamic when you look at how women use it. They are overly concerned about maintaining friendships with people they really don't care about... even going as far as acting fake friendly to their personal enemies. They also use it to diffuse awkward or tense situations.

      I see a sort of dualistic nature of self-worth going on. It seems to me that women have a sexual self-worth metric AND a social self-worth metric which they are both constantly trying to bolster.

      So, when you deny a woman sex it is an affront to her sexual self-worth. After all she's done extensive mental SMV calculations and decided that she is totally deserving of you so " how dare you deny her relatively sexy body!?!?"

      AND, if you then refuse to be subjugated by her attempts to become "friends" (whatever that term means to women) you are apply a double-slap to her self-worth by also affronting her social-self worth metric.

      Ergo, if you really want to piss off a woman, deny her sex, and stoutly refuse to be her friend.

      [–]1johnnight 4 points5 points  (1 child)

      Friendship for women is a network of diplomatic alliances and non-aggression pacts in the tribal community. You tell her that she is not your friend and it means to her that she can not rely on you being neutral. This is highly disturbing to them. Nothing worse than having hostile members of the tribe, because that is what social status is: how many percent of the tribe look at you favorably and how strong their feelings are.

      To a man a friend is somebody that you do stuff together: hunt. (Sport, games, etc. is us pretending to hunt or train for hunting.) Men shit on social status, because hunting is an individual or small team activity. The tribe does not feed us, the tribe wants us to keep providing for it. The tribe can go fuck itself when we go our own way.

      Let's look a this dialog: Woman: "But I thought we are friends?" Man: "But we never did anything together." Translation: she is using the social allies/neutrality-friends definition, while he is saying they are not in the activity-friends category together.

      [–]DRMMR76 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Agreed. As a former beta-orbiter of many years who has since stopped taking part in that bullshit since taking TRP, I can definitely confirm this. Women see friends as a status. You can use the "Lover, Lose, Provider, Friend" matrix or the "Friend,Enemy,Neutral" matrix. Either works in this case because both involve her putting you in a category based on how she sees you. None of it is actually based in any sort of action, connection, or ongoing commitment. It's just a box to put you in.

      Men on the other hand tend to view people in terms on how they actually relate to them. A best friend is the one guy you can always count on to have your back and you have his. Actions. Regular friends are guys you'll drink with, play video games, go shooting/hunting, etc, but maybe not drive 4 hours across the state to help him move out of his now Ex's place or something similar like you would probably do with your best friend. Again, ongoing actions. Colleagues and acquaintances are descriptors for people you work with or know through some common activity, but probably don't do anything with them outside of that activity (or as a direct result of that activity like getting drinks with coworkers). Yet again, based on actions.

      When the action aspect ceases for a man, the friendship is usually moved to a different level and most importantly, without animosity or resentment. If a man changes jobs, his former colleagues become acquaintances, or even eventually becoming just former acquaintances. But neither men feel any hatred or resentment toward each other. The actions changed, so the relationship changed. Both understand and both are cool with it. When women move people into other groups, or they are moved out of a group, it ALWAYS either stems from an emotional change or creates an emotional change. Like when you tell a girl you're no longer friends because you never do anything together, you see it as a simple recognition that friendships are based on ongoing actions. She sees it as an assault on her status.

      [–]Mouthpiece 14 points15 points  (0 children)

      Noticing double standard would force us all to know the truth: most women aren't the kind of people that most guys want to be friends with. Just like most guys aren't the kind of man that most women want to have sex with.

      We've all seen the numbers elsewhere throughout this sub: a small percentage of the guys are getting the best majority of all the sex. This is because the men that most women truly desire are concentrated in the upper 10 or 20% of all men.

      By the same token (and I'm not talking about unicorns) there's only a small percentage of women who display the type of traits that most men want to see in a friend. (I will leave as an exercise for the reader exactly what those traits are.)

      Acknowledging this double standard force women to answer the question, or at least ask it: why don't men want to be friends with me?

      And unfortunately, the short answer is that once you get past the sex, too many women have nothing else to offer. They have learned that pussies have power, and because they can rely on that power, they never bothered to develop in other ways. Only once they find themselves staring at The Wall do they realize that pussy just doesn't enough. And by then, it's too late.

      I can count on exactly one finger the number of women I have as friends who I'm not sleeping with. (Full disclosure: former plate). She's fun to hang out with, loyal, smart, doesn't want my money, and neither of us is interested in sleeping together. I get plenty of that elsewhere.

      But I probably know literally thousands of women who I would never have that kind of relationship with. Every once in a while I take note of someone who might theoretically be capable, and then they do something to some dude I know that proves me wrong.

      My friends are all men, and there's good reason for that.

      Edit: Corrected voice dictation error in first sentence

      [–]tindermaster1986 24 points25 points  (20 children)

      A girl said she wanted friendship instead of anything further. I said "thanks, but no thanks." Then she goes calling me ignorant and whatnot. The entitlement was strong in that one.

      My friend wanted to hook up with some girl. She texted that she just wanted to be friends. His text back? "Pass." She was as cold as a bitch to him when they randomly ran into each other a few weeks later.

      [–]brotherjustincrowe 51 points52 points  (1 child)

      "Do you think men are just objects? That you're just entitled to our friendship? We're nothing more than wallets that open on your command and a pair of ears for you to dump your problems into? Your privilege is disgusting. Try developing a personality and then people will want to be friends with you. Pig."

      [–]Dick-Tracy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      It concerns me that we may actually have to take things to that level to start pushing things back in the other direction.

      [–]fuckwithpurpose 14 points15 points  (8 children)

      I think the proper response is to pretend she never said it or trivialize it, my personal favorite is "cute." Eg, I went out with a girl last week, met her when my housemate brought home for like 10 min a few weeks ago. I'd asked her out the previous two weekends via text (no small talk, pure request and logistics), called her this time but no answer so I sent a text:

      Me: "Just called to see what you're up to, getting dinner around 9... would like to meet up and chat more this week, thought you were fun"

      Her: "Hi FuckWithPurpose!! Sorry I was driving home from work when you called. I have a boyfriend but I'm totally down to hang out as friends! You seemed very fun as well lol let me know if you're free anytime later this week"

      Me: "Cute. You live in the city right? How is Wed at 9?"

      Her: "That works! I live in [yogapantlandia]"

      Boom, no further boyfriend talk. She was super DTF but I failed a LMR dominance test and went home alone.

      Edit: added context is she just moved to the city a few weeks ago, so if she has a boyfriend it is either long distance or some guy she just started hooking up with... likely the latter, she's fucking hot and career girl slutty. I also considered "does he know this?," but thought "cute" was better.

      [–]AngraMainyuu 0 points1 point  (6 children)

      She was super DTF but I failed a LMR dominance test and went home alone.

      I'm lost. What's "super DTF" and "LMR dominance test" mean?

      [–]VegasXLR 6 points7 points  (1 child)

      super DTF

      DTF = Down To Fuck.

      LMR dominance test

      A lot of women put up Last Minute Resistance (LMR) when you try to escalate to sex despite the fact that they want it. They want you to take responsibility for what happens so they'll have plausible deniability and be able to blame "slutty" behavior on you.

      The solution is to play right into their hand. Take control. Dominate the situation. But be wary about these situations, you don't want a rape trial on your hands because you misread her signals or the boyfriend finds out and she throws you under the bus to save face.

      [–]52576078 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Yeah, with these new consent laws, LMR is now a real problem, because it basically forces women to acknowledge their own sexual desire (something not all women want to explicitly do, no matter how horny they are). It's a tricky one.

      [–]Smekiz 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Down To Fuck, and Last Minute Resistance.

      [–]-rubashov 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Down to fuck.

      Last minute resistance.

      Google will tell you more.

      [–]gokurakumaru 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      DTF = down to fuck LMR = last minute resistance (by the girl to having sex)

      [–]should_ 2 points3 points  (8 children)

      Unpopular opinion, but still devil's advocate, which is what brought us here in the first place:

      That story is the equivalent of a girl texting a guy "hey! wanna help me move to my new place?" and the guy saying "sorry, can't, but wanna come to my graduation party tonight?" and her saying "pass." In this example she's using him for resources. Shitty, right? Fuck her.

      In the example with your friend it sounds like maybe this chick thought this guy was legitimately cool and maybe she wasn't stringing him along (I can only guess), but then she finds out he saw her as tits and ass, the same way a girl would see a guy as money and help, and he would be humiliated if he found out.

      Contrary to some RP's beliefs, I think some degree of friendship is possible between men and women, without didn't-fuck-her-yet humiliation, and without a woman secretly cackling that every male who hasn't penetrated her is an orbiter. That's cool that your friend didn't become an orbiter or supplicate for sex that would never happen and that he knew what he wanted from her, but if she wanted genuine friendship, whether that's 'realistic' or not, I can understand her being cold.

      Edit: grammar

      [–]vicious_armbar 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      It's possible to "just be friends" with a woman if you don't want to fuck her. If you do want to fuck her; and you've both made that clear and made a play for her then you're being friend zoned. At that point she either is too cowardly to reject you outright so she's pulling the "lets just be friends" card, she plans on using you for your resources when it suites her; or both.

      Don't let her use you! She's made it clear that she's not sexually interested in you. Reject her offer and move on!

      Patrice O'Neal - Stop being a time ho! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9QOQNcpuiA

      Bill Burr On The Friendzone - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goyZilrOjOY

      [–]RockinV 4 points5 points  (2 children)

      Yeah, it's definitely possible. But friendship requires a lot of qualities which I find most females lack. Even if they want to just be friends and not string a guy long, they can't help but treat him like a guy they're stringing along, because it's something they've been doing their whole life - stringing guys along has become kind of a habit, or a hard skill. You can compare these qualities by testing or asking yourself, if she'll do the same things for you a bro would. Of course she's not a male, but if we're speaking about friendship, I assume it's on a human level. Just my two cents.

      [–]confuseacatlmtd 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      I think the problem with this whole analogy (the ops and yours) is that it assumes sex is not as important or valuable to woman. Really, you are asking if a girl wants sex, which is a higher degree of intimacy than just being buddies. So when you turn her down for basic friendship after she turns you down for sex, you are not saying that if you don't get one thing you don't want the other. You are saying that if you don't get the premium package, you don't want the package at all, because the premium package has HBO, and you only really wanted to watch GOT anyways, the rest would have just been gravy.

      I would say sex is the MOST important thing to a woman. They do sometimes use it against men and string them along, and this is where it gets wrong, but it's not something that they do not enjoy and just use as a bargaining chip.

      [–]RockinV 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I will agree with the premium package ideology. I've found that myself personally, and many other high SMV men I've met either want everything, or nothing at all. It seems to be a strong Alpha mindset, high risk, high rewards might play a part in it.

      [–]BluepillProfessor 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      It is only possible if the no sex arrangement is mutually agreeable and one "friend" is not mining the other for resources and attention whore time which is almost always the case.

      [–]SecretAgentQ 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Or just dealbreakers in general. In this little group I'm a part of, we have a Jewish male and a non-religious female. They're fairly close friends, but were pretty adamant about their attraction preferences [or lack thereof] based on religion alone. The Jew just would not date nor fuck a non-Jew. The areligious would not even consider dating/fucking a practicing religious individual.

      Seems like there needs to be enough irreconcilable differences for them to next each other, but enough commonalities for them to reach some level of understanding. Funny how that works.

      [–]OhYouPoorSOB 12 points13 points  (0 children)

      "OMG all that guy wanted from me was sex!"

      • Every girl after you lose interest when you realize she just wants you as a beta orbiter.

      [–]Endorsed ContributorDoxasticPoo 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      The friendzone is a man giving all the benefits of commitment to a woman without getting anything in return. So she's getting all the benefits of commitment from a man without having to commit nor fuck him.

      Women should have no expectation of friendship if they try to friendzone a man, because women who friendzone men aren't "friends", they're more like needy, openly-cheating girlfriends who don't put out. Why in the hell would you be friends with that person?

      [–]hohamocha 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      Never do anything nice for a woman, including giving her your valuable time to listen to her bitch problems.. If you expect anything back, such as a relationship, she'll call you entitled. When it is really her being entitled because she justifies that she should have you doing stuff for her/wasting your time for her for free.

      [–]AngraMainyuu 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      Something that rarely gets said: From the view point of the beta, and through the lens of society, it totally makes sense why people say men feel "entitled" to sex. In reality they DON'T, but after being there myself it usually plays out like this.

      Society used to teach that guys should be respectful to women, take them out, show interest, commitment, and shared experiences, while theoretically getting closer to their potential mate. From the guy's spot, he IS getting closer to her, and cares about her more now than he did when he first met her, and they've spent a lot of time just the two of them together. He thinks "Geez, I've put all this time into this relationship, showed her how much I care about her, and we've had a GREAT time together. Since I'm the only guy in her life who acts this way, she must know by now I think she's pretty awesome. I think we've reached the point where we need to take things further."

      Poor Beta then makes his move, only to find out everything they've been through meant absolutely nothing to her, and after being soundly rejected discovers she's now going out with someone and after the second date he fucked her brains out. In Beta's mind, women have NO appreciation for a guy who is committed to caring about them. Beta never felt entitled to sex, he just wanted to move his relationship forward with the girl he thought he shared something with, and got burned in the process.

      These days I would hope Beta would be a little more observant about the hook-up culture we have today. Things like dating and having a steady partner are relics of the past.

      [–][deleted]  (6 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]100 Modbsutansalt[S] 4 points5 points  (5 children)

        I got that one from Tom Leykis. Another I love is Vaginamony in lieu of alimony. Having lived through it, I completely understand why he calls it that.

        [–]TaylorWolf 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        I gotta look into this guy Tom Lykis.

        I listen to Eddie Bravo Radio and his assistant Zach Waldman is always going off on red pill type ideology and how Lykis is pretty much a god.

        [–]17 Endorsed ContributorJP_Whoregan 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        Tom Leykis is the quintessential example that, while men evaluate women pretty much only on looks, women evaluate men based on four categories:

        • status (social proof)
        • looks
        • personality (confidence)
        • money

        And as the theory goes, a man can make up for deficiencies in one category with an overabundance in a different category. Leykis is old, fat, and out of shape. But he still pulls young, tight ass (there are pictures out there to prove it), because what he lacks in looks he makes up for in personality, money and status (the status coming from his position as a radio disc jockey).

        [–]TaylorWolf 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Very interesting and makes sense.

        I always had a extremely timid failure of a personality, and no money, so I put all my cards in looks and became an mixed martial artist.

        It's paying off in spades, hah.

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Terrance Popp has some good ones, such as:

        wifestitute/wifetitute (i.e. prostitute/wife)

        slore (slut + whore

        slag (slutty + old + hag)

        [–]Grainslol 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        Because life isn't fair, bro. Luckily you have control over whether or not this issue bothers you. You're not a 23 year old girl who rides the CC who will turn 30 and experience a drastic downgrade in life quality, you're a man who will experience a steady and gradual upswing as long as you work. Ignore the bullshit and press forward.

        [–]1tombreck2 8 points9 points  (2 children)

        It's the difference between redpill and bluepill men.

        bluepill men are in the friendzone

        redpill men have girls in their friendzone

        [–]BluepillProfessor 7 points8 points  (0 children)

        Dudes need to read No More Mr. Nice Guy.

        Doing things for a girl thinking you will get in her pants in return is not "nice." It is deceptive and shifty and very feminine behavior.

        You should tell her what you want and make it clear from the beginning what you expect. That may not be "nice" but it is being a man.

        [–]The Red Pill RoomIanIronwood 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        [–]I_Wear_Jorts5 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        Recently, I've had to dump a female "friend" for similar reasons stated in the OP.

        Long story short, a plate told me she had found a boyfriend and we couldn't have sex anymore. But guess what guys?!? She still wants to be friends!! How sweet of a deal is that? I get to go from having wild sex every other day to listening to this girl's bullshit problems and drama. I should consider myself lucky... right? Unfortunately for this girl, I didn't accept her friendship offer. I simply said "no thanks, I'm good." The look on her face was priceless.

        Women seem to hand out "friend zone" passes like they are somehow a great consolation prize . In reality, I'm way too busy to waste time with 95% of girls I'm not fucking. I work all day, go to the gym after, then MAYBE I'll have time to chill with some of my guy friends. Why would I waste a night listening to some girl's bullshit when she won't even fuck me? I'd rather hang with the boys. As a former orbiter, I can say that my life has become so much easier and much less stressful now that I grew some balls and learned to cut ties from relationships that provide me no benefit

        [–]redpilltom 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        Sex is a valuable currency in our society to men, friendship from a man to a woman is not. Sex is like gold coins to most men, rare and extremely valuable. To a woman, men's friendship is like pennies, they are everywhere and you won't miss one if you can't find it. You don't complain that your pennies aren't worth as much as gold coins, because that's just the value society placed on them and it isn't going to change anytime soon.

        And I mean "friends" loosely, but in beta orbiter situations one man is readily replaceable with another. They may say their beta orbiter is their bff, but how often do you think they actually listen and connect with them? Do they know their orbiters birthday, hometown, favorite food, hopes, dreams? I doubt it. What do you think the talk-to-listen ratio is? Pretty in favor of the woman 9 times out of 10.

        [–]lloopy 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        I'm always happy to pick up a girl from the airport. It's $50 to get downtown and $100 to get to the far west side.

        [–]My_RP_Acct 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        One of the most refreshing parts of taking the RP was realizing that I no longer had to dole out my friendship. I didn't necessarily do favors with the expectation of sex in return, rather I figured it's what I should do and what was right to do. Now I have much easier time rebuking people's requests for favors, and reserving my time and effort for those who understand that respect is a two way street has given me way more free time and way less stress.

        [–]connorotter 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        You're not entitled to anything whether it be sex or friendship. Work your magic with her and if she wants to fuck you go for it

        [–]imaRPman 2 points3 points  (5 children)

        My wife gets soooo pissed when other women ask me favors.

        Having a male's attention and resources is a valuable commodity. Of course they want it for free.

        If we thought shaming women into giving us sex would work we would do it in a heartbeat.

        [–]nomdplume 1 point2 points  (4 children)

        My wife once instituted a "blow job for favors" policy on my behalf when several of my less capable female friends all clamored for favors at the same time.

        It worked.

        [–]toph88241 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        She made them give you blow jobs?

        [–]nomdplume 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Well, she would have, but the effect was to have them stop asking for favors, lol...

        [–]imaRPman 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        your wife is clever. I'm sure some of those women would have happily provided covert BJs.

        [–]nomdplume 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Meh, not really, lol. I'm like an older brother to most of them, and since they all love my wife, they haven't figured out how to hamster out a rationale for BJs yet (even if she says it's okay).

        And one was my kids nanny - she's pretty cute, but nothing is a bigger boner killer for me, lol.

        The one friend who disregarded the policy and asked for a favor got called out by my wife. However, that friend is very much like family (in both the love and the perpetual annoyance), so there is zero sexual chemistry (cute as she is), and I might as well be offered a BJ by a landwhale. No thanks.

        However, the policy did dictate ('cause my wife foresaw this eventuality) that, if I did not want to receive my blow job from them due to the lack of sexual chemistry, they would then be responsible for finding a surrogate blower. I really liked that clause.

        At that point, however, our friend was too drunk to make anything happen, and she never asked any more favors, so it was dropped, lol...

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–]imaRPman 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          Cause if you are friends it means she's forgiven and she doesn't have a relationship she destroyed on her record.

          A man withholding his attention from a women is the most powerful tool he has.

          Good for you! Training her to behave properly for the next guy. That's all we can do.

          [–]2asd1100 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          that is not a red pill take, this is:

          Because men are useless, in a age where all knowledge is on the internet and there are very few jobs that require you to actually be a man to do, men have no real value. So when it comes to the sexual market place they are literally begging for it because there is no real exchange of value. So men just open up their lives and have a continous open house: women can take whatever they want and maybe, if they feel like it they will have sex or consider a relationship.

          This is also true for most alphaish blue pillers, their shit is just shinier, so they actualy get pussy before they are a womans "plan B". but they still settle below their SMV, because it's a open house, first come first served.

          [–]tymet 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          The whole fat or body acceptance movement, predominately female, basically says that every woman deserves a man, an excellent one at that.

          I accept fat women in the sense that I don't care that they're ruining their lives by being lazy slobs. But that's not enough for them. They want me to find them attractive despite (or even because of) their flabby rolls. It doesn't get any more sex-entitled than that

          [–]nomdplume 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          I think it all comes down to respect.

          Only have friendships with people who respect you.

          And, only have friendships with people you respect.

          If you experience mutual respect with a woman you're not fucking, great - you have a friendship.

          If you do not experience mutual respect with any given person, you de facto do not have anything like a friendship.

          Seems pretty simple - no need for this tempest in a teapot, trying to "figure it all out."

          [–]cooltrip 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          If women want your friendship, then they should treat you like a FRIEND.

          BUT: (a big real world "TADAAAA!!!" for all the redpillers) WOMEN DON'T WANT TO TREAT YOU LIKE A FRIEND BECAUSE, BY DEFINITION, THIS IMPLIES TREATING YOU SO YOU DON'T FEEL ANY SEXUAL INTEREST IN THEM, AND NO WOMAN LIKES TO KNOW YOU ARE NOT INTERESTED IN HER BODY, SINCE HER BODY IS THE ONLY THING SHE HAS TO OFFER.

          Every time a woman tells you she wants you for just a friend, DON'T BELIEVE HER. If she notices you ACTUALLY AND GENUINELY are not interested in her body, she will punish you and she will try to make you feel bad about the fact that you can't have her body.

          Women don't really want men for friends; at most, they just want men for failed lovers or admirers who would want to have sex with them but can't.

          Women are only enabled to treat men in two possible ways: either giving them sex, or denying them sex.

          [–]1Dev_on 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I don't like the idea of having to find a 'yang' for everything some femenist spouts. Sure, she's probably right in the entitlement bit, and guys shouldn't be doing that, but again... So what?

          Beta type guys are going to get the short end, the rationale behind it is irrelevant. Just like there are many nuances that make prison bad, but doesn't really matter, it's bad and the rest isn't going to change anything.

          Point is, I'm not going to find some female equivalence, as if it points out 'see, you guys are just as bad because...' it just has a 'i know you are but what am I' kind of vibe to it.

          I have control over one person, and beyond that, no sense getting riled up because one person or another expects something unreasonable, so long as they aren't expecting it from me, we won't have a problem. If they are, I'll probably walk, and still won't be a problem.

          I'm not about to go through the list of 'things that women do that prevent me from being better' instead i'm just working on being better.

          [–]stringerbell 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Because, when you go on a date with a girl, there is a zero percent chance that she will hold you down and force you to become her friend...

          [–]raouldukeesq 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Men feeling entitled to sex is a strawman argument to begin with. Ironically, pointing out the silliness of that position is also a strawman argument.

          [–]AllMenDrip 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I don't understand the point of this thread. Entitlement is bad, whether entitlement to sex for men or entitlement to important job positions for women. If you want something and feel you feel you deserve it, try to improve yourself and be honest. Don't be a beta orbiter then whine and complain when you don't get your way.

          [–]PizzaismyJam 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I had this going on in my mind, and could not put it into better words.

          If I can't expect poontang, when being an emotional tampon, same goes in reverse.

          But oh no, a male has sexual urges, he's a pig.

          A woman likes having many servants at the expectation of poontang, but that's alright, because friendship.

          Equality sucks whenever it benefits males.

          Edit: OP you deserve gold.

          [–]SariaLystra 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Personally, if I want to be friends with a woman, she needs to be able to provide something that is valuable to me on a reliable basis. For many people, that is sex because that's what most women are good for and what all women can provide.

          But expand the box a bit: what if she could offer you business connections or help you succeed in other areas? Maybe it is worth considering having her as a friend in that case.

          BUT only give to her what she gives to you in return! Don't move mountains for her if she will not do the same for you!

          [–]slcjosh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          That's why there are are hopefully 70k plus men who follow this sub learning or know how to say "no" to a raw deal from a woman. Every guy knows in the back of their brain that any kind of companionship with another male is ten times better and beneficial. Friendship with women is rarely beneficial. The only way we can truly be friends with a girl is if there is no sexual attraction.

          [–]the99percent1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          If you need a way of gauging whether or not you're being used, request some investment on her part on par with that she has asked of you.

          this is not sound advice..

          Men will always, always be the one who invests more, even in the confines of a relationship.

          She'll be expecting you to drive and pay for fuel, pay for the majority of bills, buy her expensive gifts, sacrifice more than she does, etc.

          It is what is called taking lead. So if you are expecting a similar return on investment, forget it. She never will. Thus, you cannot base this as a gauge for a woman..

          [–]1johnnight 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          The Red Pill reversal of such thinking is "women can't just put in sex tokens and expect commitment from a guy". The reason it's so rare to hear this reverse position is really just how vaganized and gynocentric our society has become.

          It's always been like this. The default social expectation was that if you have sex with a woman, you will at some point propose, which means giving her a guaranteed supply of commitment and resources. It's socially acceptable to shame you for not wifeing up, which means that society believes that sex should be reciprocated with resources.

          The reverse is not true. Society is not shaming women like this: "So, Jane, I've heard that Jack has been helpful to you many times, moving furniture and stuff. When are you going to fuck him in return?"

          [–]toph88241 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Its been said before in this thread, but I can vouch from anecdotal experience that if you are not attracted to a woman, she does not want to be 'friends'. A couple of to times I have tried to give thicker girls a chance, even though I'm much more attracted to petite ladies. But I tried to make the exceptions because the full figured ones were very nice, we had several things in common, and had fun together. The relationships ultimately fizzled quickly because I just was not physically attracted to them. In both cases I tried to stay friends because we had gotten along well except for the sex, but no dice. It wasn't even that we grew apart, they just want you to want them or immediately exit every facet of their life.

          [–]niceguy_gone_cad 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          "If you want to have a male friend who won't hit on you, GO TO A GAY BAR" - problem solved.

          [–]DRMMR76 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I can hardly add anything to this discussion because so many great points that I would have tried to make have already been made here with greater clarity than I could have. This thread is a gem because it confirms a lot of things I have always thought but have never had anything beyond my own analysis to back up.

          I have spent a lot of time being the Beta Orbiter. I'm not proud of it, but it was my fault and as a male I must own up to my actions. I let it happen. I was the guy who would always be available for a 3 hour crying phone call about an ex bf. I've picked up more drunk girls from bars and parties after their hookup attempts with Alphas fell through. I've moved furniture, helped with homework, falsely signed a girls AA meeting form for her probation officer, and any number of typical cuddle-bitch assignments an Orbiter gladly does with the hope that maybe someday she'll see what a great guy I was and start looking at me as more than a resource.

          Of course, none of them ever saw me as more than that and I was a fool to think they would. The girls always gave me juuuuusst enough attention or physical IOIs to keep me on the hook. One in particular would always get get drunk and make out with me for a few minutes if she ever thought I was thinking about kicking her to the curb. She always "got sick" or "fell asleep" if I ever tried to move it beyond making out, and always played it off the next day like it didn't happen. But I now realize that she was doing this just to keep me thinking that I may still have a shot. I've had others tell me that "maybe I could see myself with you someday, but it just can't work right now" and other similar Orbiter-bait statements. Again, just enough to give me a sliver of hope, but not too much to make me demand a real shot. I was truly pathetic.

          I haven't gone full Alpha yet. I have some physical appearance issues that I am busting my ass on before I step back into the dating/plate-spinning arena. Stop eating shitty food, run, lift, repeat. But my eyes are opened and I will never allow myself to be played like that again.

          [–]2RedPillSafe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          ENTITLEMENT = PRIVILEDGE

          Red Pill rejects those concepts.

          All reality radiates from the Alpha Core which does not recognize the Blue Pill Matrix.

          We are "unplugged".

          We are "Men Going Our Own Way" in all things.

          [–]westsan -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

          Because I give friendship until she costs me 150 bucks or she comes into my house leaving blue in the dick and face.