all 90 comments

[–]abdada 68 points69 points  (7 children)

I definitely approach women the same way I approach businesses: I put my reputation up front and I toss anything quickly if it isn't making my life better.

Last year I directly worked with 3 startups. I was the only person willing to put my name up front. One of the startups failed miserably. It hurt my name a bit, but I believe I fixed all the bad issues and recovered well. Plus I learned what not to do on the next one.

When I see a woman of interest, I'm very quick to be up front. I don't worship a new business or my old business, it is just something that brings me value based on my investment of time and resources. Women are the same way: they have to earn my time and resources or they're not worth it.

Even if I am with someone for years, it's a constant reassessment of what I am getting out of what I am giving. Relationship markets are markets just like financial ones. You don't go shopping for a good unless it's more valuable than what you're giving up (time + money). Love and sex are identical.

A business I love is going to close its doors in a few weeks. It makes pretty good money, more money than it should. But lately I am spending too much time managing it, and it's not worth it. So I'm letting it go.

I had a dame who was drop dead gorgeous and great in the sack and took amazing care of me domestically, but she needed so much emotional time constantly that I had to let her go, too.

Time + Assets + Capital < Outcome/Profit, or markets collapse

[–]BloodRoseTRP 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'm interested, do you consider costs and benefits in the long long run? Perhaps the business may automate itself in, say, 5 years, saving you time in the future. Or perhaps the woman in your post may become a side plate etc. Interested in everyone's thoughts on short vs long term cost benefit analysis regarding both business and relationships/sex

[–]through_a_ways 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Love and sex are identical.

Only if you're a woman. If you're a man, love and sex are quite separate.

A common trope in male attraction: the hot, sexy, big hipped/butt girl you just want to fuck, contrasted with the pretty, less sexual looking woman you'd rather marry and have bear your children.

[–]skeetch_a_leak 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Love/sex is identical to time/money in the market.

[–]abdada 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I meant that love and sex are value driven markets, identical to income markets.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Any other pitfalls or tips you can give? Do the businesses ultimately give you freedom to use your time as you wish? How old are you if you dont mind me asking?

[–]abdada 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I'm 40. I have lots of life left in me but I am not wasting it. Efficiency makes me money, or it makes me time.

I don't do weekends or workweeks. I work when I'm hired and relax when I want to. I went to 5 of the continents this year and last year because I wanted to relax on beaches or outside. My terms.

When I work, I work very hard. I regularly put in 12-14 hour days 6-7 days a week. Then I might take a week off. I never understood working 5 and resting 2. Who gets anything done in 5 days? Who can recover in 2?

[–]bertmaklinFBI 18 points19 points  (8 children)

[–]Adach 1 point2 points  (4 children)

this is amazing, the entitlement is strong

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Actually, I think this is a pretty damn rational post for her. It's similar to a guy coming to TRP looking to bag 10's. She want's a 10 and she's asking how to find and bag them rather than just complain. Pretty damn savvy.

Of course, craigslist is a pretty poor location to get this knowledge. The guy's answer is good, but doesn't address her questions. He's not the target; she's looking for a BB provider and he's an AF.

[–]Adach 1 point2 points  (1 child)

hmmmm interesting, there are definitely a few ways to look at this. I think that either way though she's behaving entitled.

[–]AssedM 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The thing is, there is nothing wrong with behaving entitled. The truth is being entitled will get you a lot further in life than accepting it as something like a lottery and not trying to get what you want. People here bitch at woman who are entitled, but I believe their real grievance is that they are lazy. No one would be upset at the girl that goes to the gym everyday and excepts her boyfriend to have the body of a greek god, but if a fat slob feels the same the crowd will gather their pitchforks. I think the issue with this girl is just a having a whore attitude. Whores think that good looks will get them everything they want in life, not realizing good looks are only the qualifier to be accepted for further inspection. The mass media promotes the whore attitude, but old money knows better. Note how she said she wasn't originally from NY, so there is a very good chance she did not have proper values instilled into her as a child to court a NY bachelor. Remember, feminism's lies do not only hurt men, they also hurt women.

[–]AssedM 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This was originally a email to a goldman sachs CEO if I remember correctly, not to craigslist, so the audience was appropriate.

[–]HahahahaWaitWhat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Am I the only one who likes the response? I hope she read it.

[–]4_YRT 47 points48 points  (29 children)

sometimes I think that TRP is too tech-industry centric. As a counter example to the OP, consider the legal profession. In the legal profession, you're really not allowed to fail. That is, your clients don't pay you to fail; that's why lawyers are so risk-averse. One of my senior partners has a saying "If you try a case, you better win, or don't bother coming in the next morning." When you put your case in front of a jury, it's really hard to predict the outcome. This is why lawyers spend so much time drafting arcane and esoteric contracts, and why they spend so much money to lobby congress to enact the laws that they like. This is why so many businesses choose Delaware for the Choice of Law Provision. There's nothing a lawyer likes better than predictability. Predictability is usually a product of endless hours of hard work. Michael Jordan isn't considered the greatest basketball player of all time because of the shots he missed, but because of the shots he made. He made those shots because he was better than his opponent. So, while the tech industry might value failing fast and cheap, the legal world values always being right.

[–]miles37 27 points28 points  (2 children)

How much of this is because of the high degree of rent-seeking and other red-tape/regulation in the legal industry? Banking is the same...

If there were massive barriers to entry in the sexual market, then it would probably be the same also, I reckon. So, better to compare freer markets with freer markets, and regulated ones with regulated ones.

[–]GarandTheftAvto 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Your comment perfectly shows the distinguishing features of emerging tech/start-ups vs. the legal industry I think. Spot on

[–]HahahahaWaitWhat 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The legal profession seems to offer much of the same in life that settling down and getting married does. That is, a secure and seemingly quite comfortable existence , that deep down you must hate every moment of it because you've become a slave.

source: I know a lot of lawyers and a lot of married people

[–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 17 points18 points  (8 children)

I think that's handled by OP's use of "Fail cheap". When taking risks, it's important to minimize the cost of failing. If the risk of failure is far too high for the reward, it's not worth it to take those risks. With small business it's very possible to minimize risk such that it's not life-altering if you fail. His analogy further applies to women; the risk of failing an opener with a woman is extremely minimal. High reward-to-risk ratio.

You're absolutely correct with regards to the legal profession. There's no way to "Fail Cheap", so the rest of the advice doesn't really apply. That's one area where extensive analysis is warranted.

[–]ZorbaTHut 4 points5 points  (7 children)

You're absolutely correct with regards to the legal profession. There's no way to "Fail Cheap", so the rest of the advice doesn't really apply.

If I knew anything about law, I'd see if I could hire a few semiretired judges and set up court simulations so that lawyers could fail and practice relatively cheaply. Wonder if that could be a viable business.

If anyone here is involved in law you are welcome to steal my idea, send me a 6-pack if you get rich.

[–]AssedM 2 points3 points  (6 children)

No, because its called law school and they have mock court.

[–]1cover20 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A fresh law school grad is not likely to do well in trying cases. It's not nearly enough knowledge or practice.

Yes there is a learning curve, and in any civil case there's usually a better lawyer on one side and a worse lawyer on the other. Don't make the legal profession out to be more than it is.

[–]ZorbaTHut 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Practice is good even once you've graduated, though. Things change. Laws, especially, change.

[–]AssedM 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Or you know, they could do real work and get the practice that way. Why would they pay someone to practice fake law when they can get paid to practice real law. If you don't get a job 1-2 max after law school, good chance you will never work in law anyway.

[–]ZorbaTHut 0 points1 point  (2 children)

If you read up several posts, you'll see:

You're absolutely correct with regards to the legal profession. There's no way to "Fail Cheap", so the rest of the advice doesn't really apply.

This would be a way to fail cheap.

[–]AssedM 1 point2 points  (1 child)

That is what law school is for, so you can fail and learn without any consequences towards real people. If you are still failing after graduation, you will simply be unemployed. Working as a lawyer should mean you are successful, failing cheap is the process in law school which to built that success.

Besides that, if you disregard everyone I just said and assume there is actually is a market for it, it would definitely not be cheap. You suggested hiring ex-judges (which are also lawyers). You would have to pay them a very competitive salary of at least 200k+ a year since they could be better spend their time earning money practicing law. That means you would have to charge the customer a ridiculous amount of money for it to even be viable which is not 'failing cheap'.

[–]ZorbaTHut 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you are still failing after graduation, you will simply be unemployed.

Statistically speaking, exactly half of all cases end in failure. They must because every case has a prosecutor and a defendant. It is impossible for this ratio to change.

You suggested hiring ex-judges (which are also lawyers). You would have to pay them a very competitive salary of at least 200k+ a year since they could be better spend their time earning money practicing law.

Yes, this is true. On the plus side, each judge could, of course, handle multiple "cases" simultaneously, just like they do in real life. It would also involve less stress than practicing law as the judge would be able to set sensible hours (something which, I hear, is in short supply in the legal profession) and wouldn't have actual people relying on the judge for the best defense possible.

That means you would have to charge the customer a ridiculous amount of money for it to even be viable which is not 'failing cheap'.

Cheap is relative. Military contractors and aerospace companies are happy to throw away millions on a test when an untested failure would cost billions. For them, that's failing cheap.

In this case, "cheap" means "cheaper than experimenting in an actual case".

[–]IceColdTang 33 points34 points  (6 children)

Same in engineering. Fucking up could mean losing several lives.

[–]1trplurker 5 points6 points  (0 children)

There are massive failures in engineering, you will go through many prototypes before you get a working model, and then you'll go through many more before it's a safe working model.

There are also many failures in law, every trial case has a winner and a loser, not possible for both sides to win in a trial. Typically the party with a weaker case might seek to settle to avoid the costs of a lost trial (fail cheaply).

[–]tedted8888 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Do you have any idea how many thousands of test pilots died to develop the aircraft industry we love and enjoy today? Should we have stunted development because someone could die? Or should we have let test piolets understand the're in a experimental aircraft which could crash and kill them. As long as their aware of the risk there is absolutly no reason to get the gov't involved to stop scientific progress because "someone could be killed".

[–]1redpillbanana[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Engineering? Check out the history of NASA and the space race. They had a long series of embarrassing launch failures before they had a successful launch. https://www.awesomestories.com/asset/view/Space-Race-American-Rocket-Failures

[–]jesusofseks 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Paralled with that, if you look at the Mars Rover expedition, which for memory was in the billions of dollars mark, crashed on entry due to simple unit conversions during descent.

[–]1cover20 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fortunately engineers have "engineering principles" i.e. basic laws of physics, that have been observed to work every. fucking. time.

They have to go to school to learn what those rules are and how to apply them to analyze a proposed design.

And then they can test prototypes.

So there's plenty of skilled trial and error. Just like game, but with more emphasis (hopefully) on the skill. Not so much skill is needed in game; just a tiny smidgen will get you more pussy than you can handle.

[–]rpscrote 8 points9 points  (0 children)

used to be in tech, now in legal. Very interesting contrast. Legal folks have the benefit of "virtual failures" in that you read as many cases as possible, seeing the outcome without being the actor. You get the benefit of their failures. In tech, you have to try new ideas so by definition you can't see how its been done before and so you must make your own failures

[–]1redpillbanana[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You make a good point and your analogy would fit many dating situations, e.g. a false rape accusation, a pregnancy, getting confronted by a plate's giant MMA ex-boyfriend, etc.

There are certainly situations that will come up that require you to win at all cost and there is no room for failure.

[–]RU_Crazy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You have a good point but I think the analogy can work in the legal profession. For purposes of the analogy, "failing" in the legal sense would be akin to settling the case. In other words don't take a case to trial when its a loser, instead settle it early on and save the manpower.

As for Delaware I suppose one reason is the predictability of the Delaware jurisprudence. Other possible rationale include their management friendly fiduciary duty rules, management friendly legislature, and overall speed of their court system.

[–]yeahweewee 0 points1 point  (3 children)

no lawyer has a 100% win rate, its why you know when to give up and when to settle, i don't see how legal refutes op at all

[–]4_YRT 2 points3 points  (2 children)

there are plenty of lawyers who have a 100% trial win rate. I would imagine that most civil plaintiff lawyers have 100% win rate or very close. It's only in criminal law that win rates start to decline, and that's because criminal lawyers, both the prosecution and the defense have less opportunity to pick the cases that go to trial.

[–]1cover20 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So all you've done, if you're right, is to show that law is not a good analogy. Failure is an option with women, you really cannot win them all, there is no good analogy to settling. (One might think it's being in her friendzone, but since we don't want that at all, it's not a good analogy; settling often is a good outcome, but friendzone isn't.)

[–]HahahahaWaitWhat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm really struggling to understand what relevance 40 or more people found in your post.

I mean, the OP includes a bunch of concepts from startup culture that have what he thinks are obvious parallels in the study of game. Your post has none. If you want to make a "counter example," shouldn't you actually provide at least one example of something from the legal world that applies?

Personally, if I had to draw a parallel, your description seems closer to what the OP lists under "blue-pill one-itis strategy." Or put another way: courtship for 4 years, engagement for 3, then a ceremony after which you shortly realized that you've wasted 7 years of your life and may very well be fucked for the rest of it.

Not exactly what you had in mind? Well then I think it's up to you to actually lay out a case for how the legal profession relates to TRP, and hopefully do better than OP did, too :)

[–]1cover20 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Of course lawyers do all they can to win, or to limit the risk of loss. But do you mean that senior partner has never lost a case? Baloney.

[–]2RedPillSafe 14 points15 points  (5 children)

Having lived through the dot.coms where money was flowing abundantly towards every stupid idea imaginable I'd say there are problems with a startup culture if it's based on externally supplied money.

At that time the stock market was keyed into the dot.coms and their argument for a startup's valuation was based on how rapidly they were burning through cash. A perverse situation occurred where the faster your burned through cash the higher the stock market valued your startup. Massive parties would be thrown with lavish spending in order to give the impression things were booming.

It was as if a PUA was creating these startups... a complete fraud. (they all failed)

I think there is an argument that it's better to become a true Alpha and deal with women with the attitude that if things fail that's okay, but if it succeeds there's something real underneath.

It's one thing to not fear failure and another to sabotage yourself.

[–]HahahahaWaitWhat 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They certainly did not "all fail." Most failed but a few succeeded spectacularly. Google, Amazon and of course Ebay and Paypal are just some of the most obvious examples.

[–]4_YRT -1 points0 points  (2 children)

this is why its not a good idea to use examples from the world of business to demonstrate RedPill philosophy. I think a lot of RPers come from a tech background, or aspire to enter the tech industry so they conflate their interest in tech with their interest in TRP. As my comment points out, there are some industries, such as the legal profession, where failure is not an option.

[–]alpha_n3rd 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Only one of the lawyers can win the case. I guess some non-win outcomes, e.g. settling, might not be considered a loss.

[–]1cover20 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Show me a lawyer who's never lost a case, and I'll show you one who has never tried a case.

Failure isn't an option for the client, but sometimes it happens anyway. The client loses, the lawyer goes on to the next client. Sorry, that's the way the world works.

[–]WeAreGlidingNow 6 points7 points  (0 children)

To keep the business metaphor going, reminds me of an article I read once. The daughter of an accomplished businessman asked her dad for tuition for an MBA. He said no. Instead, he gave her the same dollar amount to open a business, knowing that it would most likely fail. He reasoned she would learn more from a failed business than further formal education. I tend to agree.

[–]the99percent1 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Im just going to throught a spanner in the works and say this:

my moto is, if you never give up, then you haven't failed yet..

It is a powerful saying. A lot of things in your life can apply to this simple line of thought.

Occasionally, you've got to cut your losses and run. But most of the time, you fail because of lack of effort.

[–]2asd1100 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yes, fail faster, cheaper and more often.

There is no optimal solution. You need to be flexible and think on your feet.

Books or videos will not help you with this. You need to find your style, your persona, your target group and the optimal environment..

Fast and witty...coffee shops and campuses are for you.

Clean and friendly...parks, street, anything casual.

Fit and shy...the internet is full of average shy superficial girls that want you.

Fit and clean...you are just the Adonis club girls are fantasising about ending the night with.

[–]tedted8888 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Knowing the red flags for a woman who might be a disaster

some common ones would be useful to expand on

[–]1redpillbanana[S] 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Off the top of my head:

  • Large Adam's apple
  • Needle scars
  • Gang/biker tattoos
  • Super-heavy makeup
  • Constantly on the phone with some dude
  • Constantly checking her phone in general
  • Asks you to take her shopping or to a pricey restaurant
  • Drunk/drugged out or constantly has to drink
  • Zoned out from too many antidepressants
  • Says she's been raped
  • Prominent cold sores
  • Crazy eyes or crazy behavior
  • Physically violent or talks about past violent behavior

[–]tedted8888 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah obviously if she has cold sores then avoid. I'm wondering about more subtle things like idk she won't go to restaurants you like but compromises on other things like movies to watch.

[–]aazav 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you don't understand the cost of making little mistakes, you're not prepared for making a big one.

If you don't make small ones, you don't learn what not to do to help prevent you from making a big one.

[–]LinuxNoob 2 points3 points  (0 children)

For the ones who are interested in the mindset for the business world check out The Lean Startup.

[–]liverkiller 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Great post

I've been subbed to TRP for a while. The Man - Female theorys in here are interesting buts its the RP attitude similarity to business attitude that I think is the most interesting to me.

Dominating in business and being an Alpha with women are very similar. I am sure successful politicians would say the same thing. Stop being afraid of failure. You only have to be successful once to become stupid rich. But to be successful you have to fail over and over again. The same applies with ladies but you dont have put out as much time and money.

I'm on my third start up. I'm not going to stop until until I'm crazy rich.

Losers lose, winners win. Which side do you want to be on?

[–]2Red_August 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is spot-on, well done. You iteratively beat down your success path for all the right reasons mentioned. People misunderstand the "never give up" mantra.

[–]joe_bruised_ego 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for this. TheRedPill is not only about getting laid, but about being dominant in all aspects of life. I especially appreciate the business and career centred posts.

[–]Mike_The_Bike 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You could easily apply this to pickup good post.

[–]Adach 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I see the parallels in music production as well. The answer isn't buy more gear or spend endless amounts of time to make the "perfect" song. The way you learn to make something good by finishing a lot of songs and figuring out what worked and what didn't work.

I was having a discussion with a close friend of mine who is an amazing composer, but suffers from a complete lack of discipline and procrastinates like a mofo. He shows me brilliant ideas, things that I can easy picture being hugely popular but he's almost fearful of taking the next step to actually turn them into a finished product. I think he's scared of failure. I know, from experience, that coming up with the idea is only one small part of the whole struggle. The redpill has helped me realize that nothing will happen by chance, if I want people to listen to my music, I need to make music worth listening to.

[–]SamGill 1 point2 points  (1 child)

this post mentioned trying out new things, trying out new ideas.

what is there that is worth trying out?

i do a lot of approaching on the streets. half the battle is to approach without them being startled.

does anybody have any ideas on how to do this successfully?

[–]1redpillbanana[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, you could try out new things on a micro-level, such as being a street performer/artist and having girls naturally interact with you.

Or you could try things out new things on a macro-level, such as meeting girls in other venues or even online.

[–]KMillionaire 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Can anyone recommend a good book on this business philosophy of failing early, often, and learning from mistakes in an agile way?

I would rather apply this to my company than to, uh, dating or whatever.

[–]1redpillbanana[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I've mostly read articles about this online, but this book seems to have good reviews: http://www.amazon.com/Fail-Fast-Often-Losing-Help/dp/0399166254

It turns out to be a pretty good philosophy for other aspects of your life as well.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]1redpillbanana[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Tough situation.

    If meeting women is important to you, I'd move to greener pastures.

    Otherwise, you're stuck in hard mode, as the attractive women in your area are probably getting tons of attention, so you'll have to double down on your physical appearance and your game.

    [–]vpwnz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    This is a fantastic post, thanks for taking the time. Saved.

    [–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I enjoy failure provided it's not an overly expensive one, like a costly divorce or an engine that throws a rod minutes after first start up. Destroying a $10k engine is a hard lesson, and usually it's your own fuck up.

    Other than something catastrophic like that, failure is an exceptional means of discovering what doesn't work. Knowing what doesn't work allows you to build experience which then enables you to forsee problems. Failing is learning, and the only way it's something else is if you quit after you fail.

    [–]larrybuffaloboy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    "The master has failed more than the beginner has even tried"

    [–]bobik314 0 points1 point  (4 children)

    I have one question. Imagine you have your best club and you hit girls there every week. What if: some girls remember you as a frequent hitter or as a person, what if you approach girl A and try with B next but she saw your failure with A? Theese 2 doubts make me be more of a sniper than machine gun. What do you think guys?

    [–]1KyfhoMyoba 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    I think that your question is inarticulate. I have no idea what you are asking. Advice is to interact w/ lots of women. PRE-SELECTION, BITCHES!!

    [–]bobik314 -1 points0 points  (2 children)

    My question is about approach strategy. I've hit wall and don't know how to move forward. Everyone tells you to "approach many women". I get it and agree, but imagine situation. You go to club, you approach girl A which rejects you. What should you do next? Approach another girl - girl B? Which saw how you approached girl A and got rejected? Real life examples are a bit more complicated.

    In my opinion it's not a good strategy. If you approach girl and she knows you approach to many woman: she is not special, you aren't trustworthy. If you approach girl and she saw you're trying to approach but every girl rejects your attemps: why she should make an exception?, your value was already evaluated by previous girls you tried to approach.

    How can I approach many woman and mitigate theese concerns? Single rejection is not a problem.

    I wrote first comment using tablet, I hope you understand it now.

    [–]1trplurker 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    How can I approach many woman and mitigate theese concerns?

    The short answer is, you don't. Stop being afraid.

    The long answer is, rejection isn't binary, it's on a scale. Preselection isn't just about girls swooning on you, it's about positive reactions even if it's in the context of a rejection. As long as you've got some swag and move boldly, then you will get a positive reaction even if she's not interested in you. Women have a far better radar then you do, you won't be able to "snipe" without them all picking up that your cautious and afraid of something. You should be getting IOIs ahead of time anyway, if she locks eyes with you then you won't experience a negative hit.

    [–]bobik314 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    The case is I'm not being afraid of what happen, it's that I don't want to mess my chances in next attempts. If there is one girls I'm interested in it's not a problem. If I'm getting IOIs it's also clear that I'd go to her.

    I found that if you ignore them they are more interested and IOIs are more visible. Problem is when there are too many people and noone (girls choose also) wants to choose because somewhere is better deal, or could be.

    To the guys who minus my comments and think "it's so beta": try do this in Central Europe. Culture norms vary.

    [–]dickinlips 1 point2 points  (10 children)

    How do I start a business without any real money and a modest salary.

    [–]1redpillbanana[S] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

    Basically follow the above advice.

    Here's what my friend did, as an example:

    • Tried a bunch of little things in his spare time. Started little businesses, tried importing stuff and reselling, tried to start a blog, did a site for ad traffic, etc. Basically he learned how things worked and how to make money. He didn't sleep much.
    • Did the bare minimum at work. This gave him more free time while giving him a steady salary. He even took calls for his side business at work. He got reprimanded but never got fired. I don't necessarily advocate this but it paid off for him.
    • Hired friends from work to do small jobs like design and artwork.
    • When he found a winner, he abandoned the lesser projects and put his resources into the winner.
    • Quit his full-time job and became a millionaire.

    [–]dickinlips 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    This stuff may be obvious to you but I didn't grow up seeing this kind of thing so it is very valuable. Thanks.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    This may sound harsh, but start by asking a better question. You're coming from a place of serving your own need to profit from a viable business. Nothing wrong with that destination, but you can't get there by serving yourself.

    To paraphrase Zig Ziglar, if you can help enough people get what they want, you can get anything you want. So look around and find an under-served niche, or better yet, a profitable niche that can be further segmented or spun in a different way.

    You want to simultaneously develop your entrepreneurial mind and a viable business. Don't expect either to come easy.

    Great post OP.

    [–]dickinlips 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I get the find a niche part. I'm asking about the next part. I added more detail in another reply.

    [–]drallcom3 2 points3 points  (3 children)

    You steal an idea, look for a idiot who gives you money and put it all into marketing. That's how the successful startups I worked for did it.

    [–]dickinlips 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Now you're talking my kind of language. I went to an Ivy league school and an old guy was openly telling people he had 5 million dollars he wanted to invest into projects. This opened my eyes to be proactive and ready for such an opportunity with a real idea. Any other recommendations on where to meet people like this? Where is the secret hideout where the trust fund kids meet their dads' friends?

    [–]nothere_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    from what ive seen its like game, it happens behind what you'd see as normal occurences (chatting) and theres a building of social network.tbh i need to see & get out even more than usual

    [–]1cover20 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Angel investors are a place to start. They're amateurs who are looking to be sold on an idea.

    [–]OrpheusV 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    You're missing the point. While the mantra is most relevant to businesses, it's also applicable in all other parts of life. Dating&relationships, hobbies, CAR BUYING, etc. Last point was the most relevant as of late, as I did a lot of shopping for a new car and ultimately bought one at the price point I wanted.

    There is always a certain point where the time/money/energy invested outweighs the benefits/output of something. OP is arguing that time/money/energy < the benefits/output.

    And seriously, the big takeaway here is to have a plan A, a plan B, and to not be afraid to walk away from a bad deal if your instincts are telling you to do so. And not to overcommit.

    [–]dickinlips 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Unless I actually start a business I can't evaluate whether the output will be sufficient to justify the energy. I need to get there and it seems to be the most closely guarded secret how to start a business on a good idea with a few programmers or workers without some large some of money initially. How willing are people to buy into it. Where are these people? Do I hang out at the cigar lounge to meet these people? Do I have to change directions in my young life to get money first because the former is really unlikely? When I see millionaires on youtube who started a business with a team of people how did they survive without money? I'm trying to "pull up the bootstraps" as people like to say.

    [–]thinktankman -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

    Sidebar shit right here great post