all 136 comments

[–]wickedwildewolf 229 points230 points  (15 children)

I think it's a bad idea to split off the discussion into a separate subreddit. Please keep it all in the main sub. We need more good content here.

[–]trpfieldreport 63 points64 points  (1 child)

I second this motion. This is TRP relevant, and will generate good conversation.

[–]2RedPillSafe 29 points30 points  (0 children)

Yes, keep it here. It will be the first read each day for me.

[–]theytookourjawas 55 points56 points  (2 children)

Be careful as to not outshine the mods with your ideas.

[–]GabeTheImpaler 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yes, thank you for mentioning this. It's like how bible study kids sit around discussing the bible, or how scientists will riff about a new paper someone in their department just put out.

For 48 days we can have in depth discussions about every single law

This is a really good way to learn AND reinforce these topics in our minds. Good job and keep going!

[–]KillYourselfLiving 14 points15 points  (3 children)

While the idea of having a whole subreddit dedicated to the 48 laws is an amazing idea in my opinion, you still are right.

TRP has much more exposure and therefore more opinions and tales.

Hence we are able to have a huge discussion here and cherrypick the best comments for the new subreddit. This allows everyone to participate in the discussion and to be able to read the best community picks at the /r/the48lawsofpower

[–]Iupvoteforknowledge 0 points1 point  (2 children)

In the event trp gets destroyed by admins it wouldn't be bad to have at least the laws backed up. Top comments could be gathered and edited too. It would take like 5 mins.

[–]52576078 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Is there a possibility of trp getting destroyed by admins? Has there been talk of that?

[–]Iupvoteforknowledge 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Absolutely. Enough outcry from the SJW's and ANYTHING is possible. We know for a fact we've been targeted by SRS, Feminism, and other such subs in the past. And it's no secret that one of the admins at least is in bed with SRS. We're not sure of the connection, some think it's a IRL relationship with the mod, some think of the admins is one of the mods, but we know they have some sort of relationship because they brigade and dox and the admins ALWAYS look the other way or even defend them.

[–]PookIsLovePookIsLife 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Agreed, definitely keep this discussion here. It's an entirely relevant discussion to TRP and fits here perfectly. Excited to see these posts here in /r/TRP.

[–]gggkin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We should only create another sub reddit for X topics only if it has enough content liquidity.

[–]Transmigratory 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Personally I think it is a good idea to have a separate sub where we can access threads which specifically talk about the laws in themselves.

[–]17 Endorsed ContributorHumanSockPuppet 134 points135 points  (22 children)


I once worked for a prestigious awards organization in the entertainment industry. I was a behind-the-scenes technical manager and assistant project manager, so my job was to handle most of the technology-related aspects of our day-to-day operations - and, on occasion, to design and develop presentations that our president and other executives would give to prospective new corporate members.

High-level executives of these prospective companies would always come by for business meetings, and they frequently complimented my boss on the quality of his presentations. I would always chime in with them, telling them how hard our president worked and how thorough he was (all the while knowing it was my work they were commenting on). My boss would frequently shoot me subtle, appreciative grins.

After only my first year of working for the company, I was promoted to project lead, given a 15% pay raise, and entrusted with the company's expense account for the purposes of "expanding our technological outreach" - which included buying a brand new 50" flat-screen television for my office.

All this, and all I had to do was let him take credit for some of my work.

Forget your personal pride and your out-dated notions of fair credit. Make your bosses look good, and the rewards will flow like honey. Increase your boss' power, because the more he can do, then the more he can do for you.

Edit: Likewise, when you're a boss, be sure to reward your subordinates for making you look good. It's hard to let someone else take credit for your work, so let them know you appreciate it by being generous. If they feel acknowledged and valued, they'll work even better for you.

[–]onenifty 58 points59 points  (0 children)

Increase your boss' power, because the more he can do, then the more he can do for you.

I think this is the most succinct way of putting this.

[–]monkm0de 54 points55 points  (8 children)

This only works if your boss is a man. If you credit your female boss, they will honestly BELIEVE that they did indeed do the work and usually won't help you down the line. With female bosses, you need to claim EVERY accomplishment to an almost obnoxious extent for them to realize that it warrants reward. I repeat, the humble thing DOES NOT work with female bosses. I know this sounds crazy sexist, but I've seen it before and experienced it several times.

[–]no_face 45 points46 points  (1 child)

If you have female boss, follow the 49th law of power: find a male boss

[–]SenorPuff 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Addendum One: Preferably yourself.

[–]1defenderzeta 22 points23 points  (0 children)

The reason why is simple. Women have no concept of making others look good alongside of themselves when they can absorb the attention. Men aspire to be chiefs of their tribe and at its highest level take a paternal sense of pride to watch the warriors grow under him. A woman is in competition with others for resources and has no concept of growing leaders under her... she is trying to win attention and validation from more powerful males than you. She gains nothing by shining the light on her male underlings... she wins more by being the token "alpha woman" who they can promote and show they are diverse. Alpha men don't mind raising leaders up behind them as they progress. Alpha women bring up people behind them who will be constantly dependent on their approval. I have seen the difference between masculine and feminine corporate cultures... one is competitive and pushy and can develop into a strong brotherhood (fraternity).. the other one is female managers undermining each other (sorority) to climb over each others backs to become the "alpha female" the other women come to have their frame of references defined for them and having weaker "non-pushy" males report to them and constantly feed them validation/approval/requests for permission to do minor functions that should have been fully delegated out anyhow (sorority).

If you see a higher level female manager just know its a guy who gave her the shot to progress and many times its because a older man sees her as a daughter or there is a active or passive attraction component on top of her giving him female attention. Females rarely grow and help their sisters up the ranks unless it is for a power play to consolidate a department or set of departments under their rule... its not about building new leaders or revenue sources .. its about control of existing resources, people and budget.

[–]workdavework 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Ugh, I have a female boss who is a "high flyer". Younger than me yet almost at director level. I'm her employee but I feel like a tool of hers. She takes on far too much work so has no time to actually manage, I get no autonomy, she gives me no direction, I'm basically a 'task completing machine' for her to issue orders to when her boss needs something doing. Usually at no notice because she's so disorganised. Been there seven months and not even come close to having a meeting about it. She's too busy. All the time. So I'll just have to move on.

Then on the occasions she does 'chat to the team', its 100% 'look how cute my baby is' nonsense. Never anything useful.

[–]17 Endorsed ContributorHumanSockPuppet 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is very true. Good addendum.

[–]botoxgoggles 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I would be extremely careful with this tactic.

Many companies have female HR departments, and in my experience female bosses cozy up to them far more than male colleagues do.

The result? If she wants you gone, you're gone - and while that's true of most subordinate positions, having HR doing the dirty work means she gets zero blowback for having fired the really helpful guy Joe on the 4th floor. Instead the word gets around that there were "problems" with Joe, but of course, no one knows what they are because HR maintains confidentiality.

Personally, having survived several female bosses, I'd recommend planning an exit. While still employed there use Don't Outshine the Master, because it does actually work, at first. But realize the clock is ticking. In my experience it takes a female boss about 2 years for her hamster to kick in and to start believing her own PR. If you time it right - she's started to believe the hype but still sort of likes you, you can use this to your advantage.

Even in a employee/employer work situation, her hypergamy will kick in and she'll believe she can trade up for a better employee. This can be GREAT for you. Because she was so caught up in her own hypergamic desire to score a better employee, she actually helped me score a better job. Looking back it was totally RP in action.

[–]monkm0de 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The two year time frame was almost EXACTLY the amount of time when my previous female boss gave me troubles - big ones, in fact.

[–]confuseacatlmtd 12 points13 points  (4 children)

The story you keep hearing about is when someone takes credit for your work to the boss. In those cases, of course you need to take credit and have evidence you did the work.

With the boss, it seems it is best to let them take the credit.

Now, here is a part I am confused on. Lets say you have a supervisor that is underneath the head boss but over you. Do you let him take credit for your work to the main boss?

[–]TomTownsend 16 points17 points  (0 children)

It depends on how much influence your supervisor has over your career advancement/success. If they can influence your position at work, then make them shine. If they can't, take all the credit you can for your own work and your boss will likely just fire them and replace them with you when the time comes.

Edit 1: more often than not your supervisor will have influence over your future, so make them look good too.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)


    [–]confuseacatlmtd 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Its funny how often the moral choice is also the right one. (Not always, bt more often then you would think) Throw the lazy boss under the bus or follow the good one up is a great strategy.

    [–]workdavework 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Depends on the superiority levels tbh. I used to be a "Supervisor" working for a Team Leader but it was a glorified dogsbody role. In that scenario I would say impress the TL.

    In another organisation the Supervisors might be well respected and have a lot of autonomy, so then you'd impress them.

    Depends on how the role titles are used really.

    [–]guy2435 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    I saw this one with my father. When I was at one of their office party I overheard the higher-ups praising his boss for the work I saw my father worked his ass for weeks. At that time I didn't understand why, and was not able to correlate this with the success my father has in his workplace. But I noticed that when my father's boss got promoted he was also promoted along with his boss. Whenever there was an increase in pay, my father always has the better deal. And he has a very good relation with his boss, I got gift from his boss during my birthdays and Christmas and he always comes to our house to have a drink with him. When my father opted for early retirement, his boss advised him to wait for a few months and got the best deal. Even when my father was not working for the company his boss always still comes to our house to have a drink with him. My father may have never read the book but he surely has an understanding of it. (There is a good story behind this, the story of great friendship in men which I have not seen in women.)

    [–]Throwaway_SEERED 3 points4 points  (2 children)

    Law 7: Get others to do the Work for you, but Always Take the Credit

    This resonates so much with this post. Incredible.

    [–]Roodkapje420 -5 points-4 points  (1 child)

    That law is just going to make yourself friendless and disliked

    [–]brotherjustincrowe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    This is really a completely valid assessment of dominant/submissive dynamics in general. Align your forces, don't set them against each other.

    [–]rphessian 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Welp I see work through new eyes now. Should probably still be looking for a better job though. Thanks for this comment! Saved and internalizing.

    [–]asiank1ng 53 points54 points  (3 children)

    With dating and social interactions, it's pretty damn common to find someone who tries to AMOG certain men (or even women) very subtly. They'll approach the situation with the mindset: "I'm the shit, people will react to me and see the dominance and authority I bring." Women will react accordingly, but not men.

    Men have huge ass egos, and it's important to understand that not every man is going to have TRP philosophy in their head. So instead of trying to make yourself the best possible man above all males (hence the "alpha" male), try to be that alpha male that makes the other men FEEL like alphas as well. When you're trying to outshine other men without acknowledging their own need for power, this only leads to butting heads.

    Practical application: If you're trying to flirt with a woman who is with a group of women and men, make sure you include the men and the unattractive female friends. People will already feel uncomfortable with your presence, make them feel valuable by allowing them to be themselves in a situation that's commonly followed by men trying to AMOG each other.

    Core lesson: Give value. Everyone is a "master" in their own way. The fool who has taken TRP will try to make others feel like shit and assert his dominance. The real RPer will give value to those who deserve it and isn't afraid to have the spotlight being on someone else, since he is that sure of himself.

    [–]MisterParty 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Exactly. Alphas maintain the value of the individuals in the group while inflating his own worth, whereas a douche is someone seeking dominance/leadership without any of the responsibility associated with it. They put others down to elevate themselves, so while women see a high value male, every guy looks down on them.

    In ancient times, Alphas led the pack and reaped the benefits of lineage/sex and resources. However, they were expected to put themselves in the way of danger should any arise. And if they were poor leaders, someone else would rise up to take his place. Without any responsibility tied to being a social leader today, douches can still do well for themselves. But they are not Alpha.

    [–]Seishuu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Amazing TRP wisdom right here.

    [–]hur1n 46 points47 points  (5 children)

    To those commenting, try not to look at these laws as "that's beta" or "that's alpha".

    In TRP, we talk about being alpha, but this word has two definitions in this sub, and almost nobody considers the second one. In the first sense, "being alpha" means conveying traits of an alpha silverback gorilla or king of the lion pride: the AMOG. The not-give-a-fuck, do what I want, walk-away-grinning abundance mentality.

    But that is an alpha PERSONA. It doesn't necessarily mean you are the alpha of your social group, work group, or alpha of the human race. It just means you believe you are, and that frame is what gets vaginas tingling. The 48 laws of power will often mean forgoing that stuff to become an ACTUAL alpha male of your sphere of influence, meaning the ACTUAL person who has the power - not just someone who pretends he does with body language and subcommunications.

    If you're here to judge this law or any of the upcoming 47 laws as "alpha" or "beta", you're missing the point and wasting your time. Many of these laws are beta as fuck. These laws revolve around shamelessly manipulating other people's image of you, allowing others to AMOG you intentionally, hiding your true motives, entertaining drama, and worst of all, the use of these laws to scheme for power requires throwing outcome-independence right the fuck out the window.

    So. What. These laws are about getting Power, not Pussy. If you want to get Pussy, go read PUA material. You'll need to ignore most of the laws, and you'll definitely get laid... however you won't have any Power.

    But there's hope! If you can temporarily suspend your alpha male behavior in lieu of getting power, pussy will come to you so much easier. Do you think a celebrity needs to use game? And do you think your alpha game is going to steal a woman off the arm of a celebrity? I know we all say "of course" because we all believe in Game like a religion, but come on - that would be serious luck, with the stars aligning in your favor, a royal flush that would never happen again in your life.

    In reality, Power is what actually makes you the alpha male of the tribe. So suspend your "that's beta" judgments and try to learn from the laws of power. Hell, even if you choose to reject them (to your own detriment), at least knowing them will allow you to spot it when others try to use them on you!

    [–]MissImprovement 15 points16 points  (3 children)

    If you ever read The Count of Monte Cristo, the Count is prime example of this. He was extremely powerful, and he was that way mostly because of manipulation.

    Another good example is House of Cards. Frank at one point was basically the President while he was Vice President just because he made suggestions to the President and let the President think that it was his idea all along. He would always butter up the President and make him feel like he was in control, when really, Frank was the one steering the wheels.

    Frank Underwood is the best representation of a true Alpha in power that I've ever seen.

    "I latched myself early on and made myself vital. After twenty-two years in Congress, I can smell which way the wind is blowing."

    "Never slap a man while he's chewing tobacco."

    [–]aww40 6 points7 points  (1 child)

    I'm currently reading the 48 laws of power and a story that gets touched on is that of Otto Von Bismarck. It's in the chapter about creating dependence. Whenever Bismarck aligned himself with the person in the position of power, he demonstrated value to such a degree that he would push his ideas on to the ruler, things he could never accomplish on his own.

    I'm recalling this from memory so forgive me if I got this wrong.

    [–]GuitarHero07 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    Von Bismarck, Henry Kissinger and Talleyrand are referenced a lot in the book. It's probably worthwhile to read up on their biographies.

    [–]Ermgotthis 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Frank isn't alpha. He's sigma. He evolves in another dimension, and doesn't need to bond to alpha-beta-omegas' rules. He just plays the powergame, and is a goddam good player.

    [–]workdavework 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Thanks for that, explaining the betaness of these laws - something didn't quite sit right when I read through them and it's because of that. ♂

    [–]GuitarHero07 82 points83 points  (5 children)


    I am a medical resident. I have a colleague who is exceptionally well-read. He knows every latest study and guideline. He always corrected people when they said something contradicted by the latest research. While many faculty docs were impressed with his knowledge, some of them weren't. He corrected a couple of prideful faculty members too many times and they decided to make his life miserable because of it. They began to criticize his bedside manner and said that his communication skills were lacking. He was under a microscope and every tiny mistake was blown out of proportion. He got into a disagreement with another resident (a terrible one) and those 2 faculty members took her side.

    I tried to tell him to tone it down, but my advice fell on deaf ears. Every chance he got, he would show off his superior knowledge. He became a target and complaints accumulated. At the end of the first year he was fired and the reason cited was "academic difficulties." Everyone knew that was B.S. because he received stellar scores on all his exams. They timed the firing to be the worst possible moment (he couldn't apply to other programs because he had no idea he was being dismissed).

    Fortunately for him, he appealed to the university and was reinstated because the residency program failed to abide by many rules in axing him. But he underwent a tremendous amount of stress and he still has to watch his back. He wants to be a cardiologist (and he is certainly qualified) but having all these black marks on his record really hurt his chances. Many less knowledgeable residents (myself included) had no problems simply because we knew when to shut up and nod our heads or even act impressed.

    He thought people would appreciate his hard work and dedication. He thought he was simply improving people's knowledge. I certainly didn't mind and in fact thought he was a very useful resource. Unfortunately, not everyone saw it that way. He made some prideful people look stupid and they weren't happy about it. He outshined the masters and paid a heavy price for it.

    [–]the_cApitalist 27 points28 points  (3 children)

    This is way too common in medicine. Its always important to remember that the the ultimate enemy is the pathology that's trying to kill your patient. Instead of calling someone else out your friend should lead with something along the lines of, "I found an article that will help us in treating patient x...". He demonstrates his value, the patient gets better care, and he doesn't create enemies.

    [–]Blocksblox 16 points17 points  (0 children)

    unfortunately medicine attracts knowitalls by nature, so this will always be a problem in the field.

    [–]ECoast_Man 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    This is true in lots of fields: medicine, law, business, etc. A very important lesson here is that if you are a student, there is no possible way in which he will be right 100% of the time (even full time doctors that is true for).

    But as a student, if you defer to your superiors as advised, when that day comes, those faculty will back you up. Sometimes in assertive ways, but other times they will say - oh, well he's a student, but a good kid, who works super-hard. That one blemish will be erased from memory.

    If you do what this guy does - that blemish might follow his career.

    [–]WoahScienceCool 27 points28 points  (9 children)

    Yes, this is SO true. Im gonna ramble a little bit here, so apologies ahead of time...

    In my line of work in Oil and Gas, we get so many new guys who get way too comfortable, way too quick. They start to feel like they can make smarmy comments to the Engineers or the Lead Operators just because theyve maybe mastered some of the most basic of skills that a beginner is supposed to know. They often start to question the leader's (correct) methods to his face. It isnt long before Managers are called and told that said new guy isnt worth a fuck and they dont want him out on jobs anymore. Now Mr. New Badass Know-It-All Alpha is sitting at home, broke and unable to make his payments.

    Meanwhile, humble guys like me, who work hard, demonstrate my skill solely through action, know how to socialize and have fun with the higher ups, and know when light-hearted banter is appropriate, are out on every job. Learn your boundaries and learn when to keep your mouth shut and when its OK to have light-hearted banter.

    Im getting angry because I already see idiots in this thread rebuking the first and arguably most important law to gain respect in the Corporate World. Youre not going to be Don Draper on your first day of work, stop ACTING like it. Unless someone is outright harassing or bullying you, do not talk back to your superiors. Without rank, you will LOSE every fucking time, no matter how good you actually are. I cant stress this enough.

    Your sole job as the NEW GUY is to make your superiors LOOK GOOD. Thats it. Get used to it.

    Im not saying be an awkward kiss ass though, nobody likes that. Be fun to be around, socialize like you would with good friends, be confident (NOT arrogant)- everybody wants to have some sort of "fun" at work, but just know your boundaries as the student and never question their authority.

    Im not telling you to be beta. When your Senior Engineer is out buying you lunch and your paychecks are the largest on your level of work, we'll see just how badass the now broke Mr. Know-It-All New Guy pseudo-Alpha feels being left alone on the sidelines.

    [–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 17 points18 points  (3 children)

    Im getting angry because I already see idiots in this thread rebuking the first and arguably most important law to gain respect in the Corporate World.

    People violate this law everywhere on every level because they are dumb fucks. To use a simple example we can all relate to: people come into TRP and start bitching at the mods for doing their jobs and giving them abuse. Then they come back on throwaways and moan they were banned or bitch in other subs saying they got censored here. It's funny as fuck that people can be that retarded.

    [–]Blocksblox 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    i think you're right. i think it's also exacerbated on the internet because of the anonymity factor. it's much easier to say some douchey shit from behind a screen.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)


      [–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      This is called "blurring the masters."

      Your teacher/principle is your master only within school. They should not be exercising authority over you for something you did outside of school eg: on the internet with a PC outside the school premises. The same goes for the police. The police are only your masters within the context of you being a prisoner. In this subreddit, the mods are the masters.

      [–]notjaffo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Excellent advice. There is nothing beta about paying your dues and learning your job. Everything in our society requires some kind of teamwork.

      [–]RK-no 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Yeah. For most of the time, shut the hell up and do your job. No one cares about you, you're easily replaceable. If you're in a situation where you can make your boss look good, seize it and then shut the hell up again. Both about the job and about the fact you made them look good.

      [–]LifterofThings 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      Amen to this. I often find that people who present themselves as eager and humble students of whatever discipline will have access to tips that only experience can unveil. I've gotten a lot of awesome inside info on the world of HR by being curious rather than a know-it-all, and it's improved my resume and interview skills considerably, as a new graduate seeking work.

      [–]WoahScienceCool 0 points1 point  (0 children)


      You cant expect to learn anything and actually get better at your job if you act like you already know everything. People will just stop teaching and you will never improve, staying stuck in limbo until you inevitably get fired.

      [–]Sleazyridr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I learned very quickly that the guy who's been doing this for 10 years probably knows more than I did in my first year. If I thought something was a little off I asked, usually in private, why they did what they did. Usually I learned something, occasionally I impressed people. Now that I'm the one who's been doing it for 10 years I can look back on those conversations and make the right call a lot more often.

      [–]pjewa[S] 24 points25 points  (2 children)


      It's simple and kinda silly, but I learned a lot from it.

      I'm a funny guy. I make jokes. A lot. So does one particular higher up in my department.

      I have a great relationship with him because he's a great guy, but I did notice one thing in particular - HE wants to be the funniest.

      Every once in a while, way way back, he'd fire off a joke, I'd fire off a joke back and get no response from him. It occurred to me that he's not looking for more jokes. He's looking for his joke to be land and be the funniest.

      So when he fires off a joke in my direction, I don't try to follow it up with more jokes. I laugh with him and go back to what I was doing. This has made our relationship even better.

      At first I felt like it was a little sycophantic, but it's certainly not "pity laughs" or "sucking up." I've learned that he's not looking for a witty back-and-forth. He's not making a joke so he can have his joke followed up with more jokes. He's making his joke to show how smart he is and make him feel powerful.

      [–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      Laughing along is irresistible flattery. He sounds like a needy bugger. Surprising how many people are. Good on you to make the diagnosis and working with it instead of getting into a joke contest over a need to impress... Steal his best stuff.

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Great example. It's the "little" things.

      [–]2RedPillSafe 14 points15 points  (0 children)

      This might be stated:

      • "Don't be a Punk".

      Always assume that upon entry a social heirarchy exists and that you are wisely respectful of it.

      Once you get in and learn all the rules you can begin your slow climb. It takes time to rise to the top.

      And climbing can involving making mistakes and accepting setbacks, so you need to remain focused on what your legitimate power level is and not overreach too much. A little "fake it until you make it" can be useful, but too much and you look like a Punk and it works against you.

      [–]1defenderzeta 11 points12 points  (6 children)


      I am the training manager for one of the largest insurance/financial services call centers in the nation. I started off as a agent who was willing to take new folks under my wing and just help them like veteran sales people helped me as a newbie. I eventually hand trained nearly a hundred agents, built a ton of good karma and when the person who had the job ahead of me decided to light himself on fire with HR it opened up a opportunity for me when they were looking at a replacement.

      When I took my job it was considered to be the "least" of the supervisor/management jobs because it wasn't front line sales... it essentially converted me from being a top producer to a support person. I didn't even get override commissions. I took the broken training program, built a complete 6 week training program with manuals, power points and put in 10 months of 70 hour weeks making it into something amazing.

      The director of sales and marketing became my mentor. Using the 48 Laws of Power I positioned myself with humility and told him "I am not ready to become a higher level manager.. I need a mentor to take me up the mountain." Essentially I was a supervisor reporting to someone 3-4 levels above me since I didn't fit into the chain of command. I was always asking him what areas he saw I needed to grow in. I would order books from Amazon on that subject and during our Friday discussions on the new batch of salespeople I would constantly ask him questions that put him in a paternal/tribal leader frame. It made him feel empowered to see himself as giving wisdom to someone who was taking what he said and trying to apply it. Eventually they bumped me up into a management position, gave me a supervisor to assist me and have recently given me two projects to build a external sales force outside our call center that could be a OMFG huge income opportunity.

      Corporations that are masculine (run by men) are FEUDAL in their form of power rules. If you constantly give honor and are willing to support your higher ups you will gain power. I constantly am brought into fixing projects, doing some of his labor intensive scut-work that must be done... and i get it done asking for more. If you can position your higher ups to feel like they are developing you in a mentor relationship (not just abusing a person by dumping work on them... but trusting them to handle part of their workload and being brought in on secrets/politics above your pay grade) you will be on the pathway to becoming a leader yourself.

      In the military many officers develop in a lineage where higher officers pull up lower ranked officers behind them where they can shape them and have a ready made power structure of underlings who trust/respect them. Many great leaders like Colin Powell had higher ups who opened doors for them because they wanted THEIR protege to get a leg up over some random person.

      I am always proposing ideas and asking if I can write proposals for new projects... when I get conditional approval I do a thorough business case. Right now my base has been increased 3 times to about 80k and with a bit of over-ride commission I will be getting with new projects I'll be close to 100-120k in 2015. I got to talk to the CEO of our company with my director by my side and we had a discussion about my future with the company. The CEO asked what my "number" was and what i hoped to grow into. I told him I wanted to make 200k a year, but not to be given 200k... but to be given the opportunity to build a sales force in a segment of the market we have tried to do before... and failed in... but which i know ALOT about. Having my director by my side gave me the credibility to take a shot like that and they gave me the green light to start it in a few weeks... a budget... the whole nine yards.

      But it all flows from me (vassel) giving honor to my higher up (lord) in the feudal structure and positioning myself not as a hireling... but as someone who adds value and who has the right mix of aggressive/obedience (passive obedience is totally beta and waiting for the higher up to hand you stuff instead of trying to find new ways of generating revenue within the company). It's starting with small wins like developing a sales training manual, re-developing the corporate scripts to be more effective, developing a supervisor/manager training program (and training managers technically above you)... and just being on point all the time. Coming to corporate events with a wife who the other women like. When wronged by others in the power structure (other managers who are negging on you) calling in favors to let your allies hammer the other person (other managers and department directors who you have built good karma with) so you don't look like a complainer and even in some cases look like someone unfairly treated (hold frame, show positive stoicism even if your pissed off internally).

      If you attach yourself to someone several levels higher than you, position yourself as a faithful warrior and work the relationship you will find yourself passing by others who will proudly say they "don't play corporate politics" ... which just means they can't see the game of tribal positioning and ascension for what it is.

      [–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      If you attach yourself to someone several levels higher than you, position yourself as a faithful warrior and work the relationship you will find yourself passing by others who will proudly say they "don't play corporate politics" ... which just means they can't see the game of tribal positioning and ascension for what it is.

      Exceptionally good comments. Everyone wants a lucky break, you earned that conversation with the CEO and the green light on a proposal you presented. Once you deliver on that, the big doors will be opened. You will be the talent they can't afford to lose.

      [–]Upvote Me!trpbot[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Confirmed: 1 point awarded to /u/defenderzeta by RedPillDad. [History]

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      [–]workdavework 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      Great read. Extra interesting for me as I am a Training Manager too :)

      Unfortunately I work for a senior HR lady who has no interest in L&D and who wants all of the things you've implemented done at our place, right now, for free without any hint of career progression.

      And that's before you get to the weekly "oh can you do this by next week, it's urgent" and "some people didn't do their jobs and I volunteered to take the work on because a Director was in the room so you need to do it". Not that she SAYS that, but I know her game, and her game doesn't involve me except to make her look good.

      Sorry, just venting now lol, suffice to say I'm looking for something else.

      [–]1defenderzeta 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      Don't blame you in the least... I would look for something else as well. Women on the corporate ladder rarely look to share credit or build folks up under them. And they will turn their hasty promises into a "must do" project for you.. essentially building a false crisis of "gotta get it done" to save face for them.

      [–]2footshoes 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      In a situation like this, where the female superiors dump their promises of labor they don't feel like doing to their peons, how does one approach redirecting the attitude of "step on me, I'm below you and give you that sparkling finish on your weekly reports"?

      I get into the same predicament, where in the course of my daily duties the supervisor (woman) comes in and offloads parts of her job on me to finish while she walks around talking about all the work she accomplished. It doesn't bother me, but I can't find a strategic way to turn it into an advantage.

      [–]1defenderzeta 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      You can't. It sucks to work under a female boss. Their self-centered view of the universe creeps into the workplace and they are horrible at sharing credit.

      [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

      Excellent post!

      This addresses something I've been noticing in the IT field...more specifically in "geek" subculture. Don't get me wrong, I love my geeks. But too many of my comic book reading, anime watching bretheren are addicted to the petty pleasures of being right all the time. From rules lawyering in a D&D game to pontificating about politics and current events, this constant need for rightness asserts itself as a way for a speaker to feel powerful by regurgitating stored information in order to win the day in some petty conflict. I've even seen people go so far as to generate conflict in a group over a point which everyone agrees, just to be able to "win" that conflict and stroke his own insecurity. Ultimately it devolves into the constant need to mentally masturbate by talking endlessly about a handful of topics, despite the fact that the speaker's audience lost interest in the "debate" a long time ago.

      This is a very beta trait. In the world of sex, relationships and game, it represents not only a loss of frame, but a deliberate handing of one's frame to another party on a silver platter...often to the complete disinterest of the other party. In the professional world, it's a good way to get your ass fired. You lose your job and you don't even get the petty satisfaction of winning the argument.

      Amused mastery does not spew unfiltered "rightness" to anyone and everyone who will (or won't) listen. An alpha with a healthy sense of amused mastery knows how to control the flow from the vent between his nose and his chin. He can control the direction and the rate of flow of the rightness coming from that vent, or stop it altogether. He also knows how to control the information that is revealed through his action or inaction.

      I've seen many men fail because they could not control the rate of flow of their ego holes. Even if their actions were exemplary, the lack of mouth discipline and the tendency to let flow every thought unfiltered has violated this very rule. They outshined their masters in the worst possible way and annoyed the crap out of everybody in the bargain. Yet they go away from their failures still convinced of their own rightness and unable to evaluate their failures objectively, so busy are they still pontificating their thoughts unfiltered.

      EDIT: I agree that these posts should stay in this sub.

      [–]Blocksblox 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      At my last job (entry level in a management-track position with good exposure to executives) I failed at this. I came in cocky, and to my surprise everybody hated me. I was taken aside by a manager and explicitly told to 'tone it down' in order to fit in.

      Eventually I realized they want you to shine, but not too much, and certainly not too quickly. I started acting very humbly - just working hard and deferring to the managers without question on every judgment call. This helped me immensely -- I got a raise and a very good performance review.

      After a year I learned to take it to the next level -- I began to anticipate the needs of my bosses (and their bosses) and give them what would make them look good. I did this so often, they didn't seem to mind when I did things that explicitly made me look good too (always actions, not words though).

      When I put in my resignation notice I was given an offer of a massive raise and a promise of a promotion in my near future. All this from almost being fired in the first 3 months because I failed to heed to this 1st law of power.

      [–]KillYourselfLiving 16 points17 points  (4 children)

      In my opinion it is very important to define who your real master is. Say you work in a small company. You will have the owner/CEO and people inbetween. For example the middle management, who are you direct superiors.

      Who is your master? The middle management guy, despite having the power to give you orders? No he is not. In this case it is quite possible to outshine him. If you do that, try to do it subtle and do not brag about it (or any of your achievements for that matter) infront of him. Always keep law #3 in mind: conceal your intentions.

      The problem if you don't try to outshine the guy above you is, that he is going to steal the credit for your work and make him shine in a bright light. See law #7 get others to do the work, but always take credit. Now as soon as you know who your master is, it is of utmost importance to never come out guns blazing. For example when you are in a new job you can never behave like everything you touch turns into gold. It is very unwise to outshine the middle management in this scenario. Making your real master look better than he probably is, is the main essence of this law. Don't overtly crawl into his ass but praise him whenever appropriate. You have to keep in mind that if praising anything that should not be praised is a very bad move. This will arise suspicion and draw resentment upon yourself.

      Again I have to repeat this very important word: subtlety. If you act too openly and agressive your co-workers will catch up and start acting against you.

      Another thing you will have to keep in mind is that you will be confronted with opposition if you outshine people other than your master.

      The Red Pill preaches self improvement. We have all been there, tightened our boots and worked on ourselves. We started lifting, we started passing shit tests and demanding the respect that is due. We changed our habits and ways and asserted dominance. One huge problem arises though. Humans are programmed by nature to resist change in their social circle. If they believe themselves to be more alpha than you, you are going to have a very hard time.

      Fact: People in general and your friends in particular are going to try to keep you down! I know a lot of people are going to resist that idea but this is what TRP is all about. Hard facts and the truth.

      Your friends notice that you improve yourself, assert dominance, hit on girls in your social circle and feel threatened by the new you. They don't want to change the status quo and therefore they are going to try their best to prevent you from bringing a disturbance in the force of the already established group. They don't like being outshined and therefore will lay bricks in your way.

      It is much easier to become a person of influence and respect within a new group of friends/people.

      If you decide to change too much too quickly (see law #45 and #46) you are going to be confronted with resistance. Try to subtely change and don't openly outshine your friends at every possible opportunity.

      [–]confuseacatlmtd 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      Ok this answered a question I already had. I think it is also important to praise middle management so they think you are on thier side. Am I off here?

      [–]Endorsed ContributorTDCRedPill 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      In my opinion, no. Every one of those people has the potential to be useful in some way, just figure out how. If you upstage someone higher in position but inferior overall, without following the 'destroy completely' law, you make an enemy that still has power and influence over you. You're making your own goals more difficult to achieve.

      [–]KillYourselfLiving 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Yes and no.

      If you praise them infront of your real master, who gets the credit? Them. Do you think they are going to tell the boss in private that it actually was you who did such a good job?

      You trade the credit for your work for a little sympathy bonus... praise and charm them in private settings and infront of coworkers, not infront of the boss.

      [–]t21spectre 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      It is also important to keep in mind that when your middle manager is promoted the company will need someone to promote into his spot. He will remember your aptitude. If his new position is directly above his last it would be in his best interest to recommend you for his old position to keep drawing on what you have. You both win.

      [–]the99percent1 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      So much good advice in this thread..

      I was lucky enough to be brought into my current company under the CEO.

      Ultimately, I'm a scrub and have a fair few directors and managers out ranking me. That being said, the CEO still expects me to report my progress to him..

      This causes problems and don't for one second think it is an easy scenario to have been brought into the company by the top boss. The CEO has little to no say in my line of work and I cannot expect to be bailed out by him if I can't get along with others..

      So what have I done to gain the trust of my managers? I followed the first rule to the bone.. showed them that they are my bosses and I listen to every advice or orders they ask of me. For the first year, all I ever did was be submissive, loyal and obedient to my directives. Like an orphaned lion, I was adopted by the alphas. I was given more and more responsibilities. The feedback they gave to my CEO was pleasing and that is how I have survived.

      If I were to start off by abusing my connections s with the big boss, not only would I piss off people who I can gain from, I would've also alienated the CEO. That would've been a death sentence..

      Instead, by obeying the first rule, I worked to gain the trust of my superiors, powerful allies, and pleased the big boss.

      Eventually, I will be seen as an equal. For now, I'm happy to be the trustworthy, obedient and capable knight they expect me to be. That being said, there are some drawbacks that you need to watch out for.

      If anyone wants to watch first rule in action, I highly recommend you watch the last season of Boardwalk Empire. Enoch Thompson shows how to do it properly and effectively.

      There is a fine line of being submissive and a doormat that people can step all over. Do not be the doormat. Always ask yourself, if what you are doing is going to advance yourself. You must always be gaining some political clout..

      Also, use your clout wisely.. sometimes you've just got to live with situations that make you uncomfortable. Think big picture and let petty issues go.

      [–]Its_Eli 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      Bonus points: Apply this rule to your day today for practice

      [–]robotghow 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I think the idea is to not provoke those who are stronger than you. If you wish to surpass someone, you have to wait patiently until you can match him, and then some. A small victory is not enough, because a vicious opponent will take it to the next level. You have to be confident that you can win all the way through, if required.

      Actually outshining your master can be a good baiting technique, if you think you're ready for a battle.

      [–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 8 points9 points  (8 children)

      I need to clean up the grammar somewhat, but I did a deep essay on this law awhile ago which can be found here:

      I recommend only reading this if you have already read law 1 in the book seeing as it expands upon what is written there. If you haven't, read the law 1 chapter first in 48LOP and then read this.

      [–]1 Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 11 points12 points  (3 children)

      You state in that article that Louis XIV acted like a butt-hurt beta after the party, which is actually Robert Greene's fault, because he either didn't put enough research in, or chose to leave things out.

      In fact neither was Louis beta nor did he act out of envy because of some party. Louis learned the tools of the trade from a young age, because his mentor Cardinal Marazin prepared him for his future life and, among other things, took him to every important political meeting to watch and learn, as a boy.

      The thing with Louis was that he was driven out of his castle in Paris when the parliament and the princes chose to revolt against the absolute claim to power of the monarchy, the so-called "Fronde", while he was too young to run the government business and defend himself against that strike.

      He had to live in a castle outside of Paris which wasn't worthy for a king and he never forgot about this. Soon after he mounted the throne he stripped all the powers from the aritocracy and confiscated much of their assets.

      The story with Nicolas Fouquet was, that he just acted very unwise by displaying the wealth and abundance, he was able to gather with shady business practices with the banks that lent money to the state.

      While he might have done some of those things in consultation with the king, many of those actually exploited the state, for the benefits of his own pockets.

      With all that money he was able to steal, he chose to build himself the Chateaux Vaux-le-Vicomte, which could be said to be the predecessor of Versailles. It was stuffed with artsy-fartsy stuff of that time, gold and silver and calling it splendid would be vastly understated.

      He chose to boast about it whenever possible and it's door stood open for the distinguished for that reason.

      He then chose to host that certain party. It was not only a glorious fest, but one of two or mostly three events of such splendor and magnificience the world had heard of before.

      Meanwhile the king had to live in a much more modest circumstances because the finances weren't the best due to wartimes.

      So Fouquet stole from the king, took that money to build a pompuos chateaux, which was more glorious than the king's own, filled it with luxury in an excessive amount and decided it was a good idea to throw a party the world never heard of, to show off his assets, and chose to let the king just be the sidekick.

      I'd be pretty pissed too in that situation of plain display of disrespect.

      But again Louis didn't act like a butthurt beta, because openly assaulting Fouquet could most likely end in yet another Fronde, which might be successful this time, and strip him from his powers permanently.

      Instead he chose to make Fouquet sell his post, you had to buy them in those times, because he was suggested he could reach and buy just yet an even higher position. By that he gave up the protection of his privileges and it made it possible to arrest and accuse him.

      Still a violation of law #1 though, but yet in another dimension.

      [–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 4 points5 points  (1 child)

      Very interesting story. From reading your post it actually sounds like it was Fouquet who outshined the master rather than Louis. He misapplied the notion of "create compelling spectacles" to a factor of 10 and pissed off Louis in the process. Of course, my post is based on what is written in the book, if the book is wrong about a historical fact, then my interpretation of that fact will likewise be wrong. If we hold what Greene wrote as a hypothetical reality, then the logic holds within that reality and a lesson can still be learned regardless of the anecdotally flawed history.

      [–]1 Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      Actually the whole life of Louis XIV is pretty interesting.

      I've just recently watched a documentary about him to get in the right mood for a trip to Paris. Unfortunatly it was in German, but there should definetly be some good ones in English and I can recommend watching one.

      He was surrounded by many political geniuses and legendary figures, like Cardinal Richilieue, his mentor Cardinal Marazin or even Fouquet, if you spare his faux-pas.

      Louis himself isn't to be underestimated as well, since he succeeded in eliminating feudalism, reinstating the divine right of the king and centralizing all power at himself, making him the longest ruling king in European history, with over 72 years in charge.

      [–]wickedwildewolf 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Marazin sounds like another interesting character to study.

      [–]the99percent1 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      Any continuation of this? You kinda left it as that

      [–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      The series of laws? Yes I will continue them.

      [–]the99percent1 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Yes and continuation to the dark triad/Machiavellian series at work place would be nice.

      [–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      continuation to the dark triad/Machiavellian series at work place would be nice.

      I do not believe that is something I ever began/planned. Any examples given in the workplace in my current essays are merely consequential to the piece itself. However, using specific workplace examples does sound like a valuable idea. If there is any common thread where people will be inclined to use Machiavellianism, it will be at work.

      [–]sexuallyfrustratedM 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      fairly accurate in all phases of life, from game to education to everything else. also, not only the master but your friend who is really good at something.

      [–]KillYourselfLiving 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Indeed a very good point. I wrote my opinion on this in the other post found at /r/the48lawsofpower

      [–]TheDarkTriad 2 points3 points  (6 children)

      Unfortunately I am unintentionally violating this law. I got a new assistant manager about 4 months ago and ever since he started he's felt threatened by me because I know so much more than him. I could easily replace him and he knows it. He nags at every tiny mistake I make (mistakes that will fix themselves or really aren't even worth mentioning) and makes sure our boss above both of us knows about it. It's preventing me from climbing the ladder as fast as I panned.

      I'm just not sure how to excel and shine at my job while making sure to not outshine the master. Input welcome.

      [–]Blocksblox 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      start asking his advice on things, even if you already know what to do. this will make him trust you. he will begin asking you advice for things. this is when you give him bad advice, and then (quietly) make his mistakes public to his superiors. make him love you even as he's packing his belongings into a box and being escorted out by security. then, enjoy your new office :)

      [–]TheDarkTriad 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I've actually asked for his advice a lot and tried to form a relationship to build trust with him but he always turns around and screws me. No matter what I do I can't get him to back off. I've also tried going on the offensive and argued back with him (speaking like an adult of course) but once that issue is resolved he starts a new one. It seems like he's trying to get rid of me because he feels threatened.

      What makes it worse is that he has that personality that makes everybody like him. He has a fun, joking around type personality so he's so likable that everyone is blinded by it.

      [–]SgtTRP 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Not all your superiors are your masters.

      Choose your masters wisely. They should be able lift you up in your career. This assistant manager sounds like an obstacle.

      Also shining at your job is not a must all the time. Sometimes it can be suspended for achieving other ends. For example getting real close to this assistant manager, before he loses his position to you.

      [–]1defenderzeta 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Assistant managers are one step above janitors. Become a top producing sales person and you are untouchable and nearly untouchable as long as your booking revenue. If your not in sales you will progress much much slower. C Level executives and directors come from sales or finance in almost every company. The most engineers or support usually can aspire to is CIO which is the least powerful and most mistreated executive position.

      [–]1defenderzeta 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Attach yourself to someone higher. Do a written proposal to a director or executive on how the company can save money, make more money or decrease waste. If it is shot down because the hireling above you poisioned the well then get a new job because your reputation is weakened for the long term. Give it a shot then jump to a new ladder/job if denied to reset yourself into a new tribe. Coming in as a new guy will give you a blank slate.

      [–]Notafap2give 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Miller Heiman sales training. It may just read like a sales book, but if you can go in with the understanding that sales isn't necessarily dollars and cents and more about penetrating psyches then it could help you grind your way into social circles, etc.

      Also, Gittomer's little red book of sales applies, too.

      [–]Newbosterone 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      At my first job, they ran a mentoring group for new employees. At one of the meetings, a coworker said, "you mean I was hired to make my boss look good?" The exec leading the group looked at him and asked "were you under the impression that you were hired to make him look bad?"

      [–]1favours_of_the_moon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I can dig this rule.

      Your boss has to take responsibility for your fuckups. He hired you to begin with, so your productivity is on him. If you make him look good, he'll bring you with him on his way up.

      There is a popular Marxist-based belief that in order to have "authenticity," you must be in open warfare against the establishment. I do not believe that to be the case. The purpose of such propaganda is to marginalize opposition.

      Do your thing, but show loyalty to your team.

      [–]3kempff 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      This is one of the themes of my professional life. I'm a private tutor. I make other teachers look good, by helping their students shine. I strive to support their classroom instruction and take it further.

      I had one teacher who was actually jealous of me. It made no sense, of course. He felt that if his students needed a tutor, then that meant he wasn't a good teacher. For me, the logic was, I'm making your students better students of you. Looking back, I guess it was just a case of making him fearful and insecure, since I was, after all, a far better teacher anyway.

      But that raises another question in my mind. Should I be a little bit obsequious and kiss up to The Master sometimes? My rp-sense says yes, to manipulate them into giving me what I want. But so much of rp goes against my grain, so I'm not sure.

      I despise flattery. Giving it or receiving it. But I see how useful it can be, in cases where you want something, from someone naive or narcissistic enough to be susceptible to it.

      I totally sympathize with Fouquet. My natural instinct aligns with his. I would have thought myself to be helping Louis get ideas about how to be fabulouser. "If I can do it, so can you".

      The flattery of Cosimo makes me sick to my stomach. But I see the connection between what Galileo wanted from him, and how Galileo got it. I still feel sick, but I acknowledge that appealing to a powerful provider's vanity is sometimes the means to get what you want.

      ... but at his first opportunity he will replace you with someone ... less threatening....

      Amen to that.

      [–]GWBuffalo1847 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Machiavellianism is a natural skill set for many people. In response, others will develop a disdain for many Machiavellian techniques. The reason that you despise flattery is that you instinctively know that it is used for manipulation, and this is an area that you are not good at. It is like when people say they don't participate in the politics game, it only leaves them in a bad position. Luckily, you can develop your prowess as a Machiavellian and more tools will become available to you. However, you will never be able to manipulate as naturally and efficiently as a sociopath would.

      [–]Chinny4daWinny 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I think that we should also discuss the reversals of each laws and when to apply them.

      And I second the motion of keeping the discussion here. Later we can transfer it to another sub.

      [–]jesuskater 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Is a tough advice to follow when you like to work nice and clean and your immediate superior is a jackass that doesnt even know how to send a friggin email correctly.

      [–]johnyann 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      I've never liked this law, but I understand it.

      I just have always felt like if you aren't in a position where you can learn something from the people around you, then you aren't in the right place.

      [–]2emptyform 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      This is true in selecting your macro environments. However, when you enter a new arena, you will often be under a relatively incompetent master who got to his position by longevity more than skill. Play the perfect courtier to get under better masters.

      [–]7c52 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Never outshine the master until he fucks you royally, then destroy the motherfucker.

      [–]patx123 1 point2 points  (5 children)

      ..even when the master has an IQ that appears to be half of yours. Else you will be a marked man in the firing line.

      Mostly true in a Corporate setting, but not so much in the egalitarian startup world.

      Have been moving ahead with the audio book. At Law 17 now, and some of Greene's laws are obnoxious or simply lack integrity. It has made me smirk or mildly amused. When in doubt, keep an open mind but use your critical thinking skills.

      [–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 19 points20 points  (1 child)

      At Law 17 now, and some of Greene's laws are obnoxious or simply lack integrity.

      Moral criticisms are moot. The only reason a Machiavellian cares about how their morality is perceived is for the sake of safeguarding their reputation. In and of itself, morality is irrelevant to the art of Machiavellianism. To put it more succinctly, Machiavellianism doesn't care what your morals are, it works in spite of your or my moral beliefs. Machiavellanism is not chained to morality, that is part of its power.

      [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

      laws are obnoxious or simply lack integrity

      If you recall the introduction, Greene makes no qualms concessions to appease the prevailing morality. In fact, those people who bring up things like integrity are usually playing a power game themselves

      [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      some of Greene's laws are obnoxious or simply lack integrity.

      That doesn't mean that they aren't effective.

      [–]3kempff 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      some of Greene's laws are obnoxious or simply lack integrity

      "Integrity" is just a tool also.

      You almost get it.

      [–]ShekelBanker 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      The law is true, I've applied it when I dealt with my parents (particularly my father) and my professor. Overtly displaying what you know and proving that you can do better in front of your superiors will put you down because you will be considered a threat to their position.

      [–]TravellingIndian 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Isn't using this with your parents counter-productive? After all, parents are supposed to be the ONLY people in the world who will love you unconditionally. Do you really want to play power games with them?

      [–]ShekelBanker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      It wasn't a play for power, more like a play to chop down their block-headed attitude about me, especially my father's. My father has never accepted me as the responsible adult not even when I got an internship at my country's Parliament, nor when I made 6 figures a year trading stocks solo. I didn't even have an opulent lifestyle to have at least a reason why he'd call me irresponsible (seriously, I live in a 2bdr apartment worth $100k, don't even own anything else other than a car), yet I've grown tired of him who should have unconditionally "loved" me as I was to still harbour either an attitude ingrained inside him long ago (his father was a priest killed by the commies in a prison) or he's experiencing a case of jealousy.

      [–]thick_knees 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      This is a law that is relatively easy to follow because if you are doing things correctly in your life, chances are your suprior knows a lot more then you do anyway so unless you are an arrogant prick that thinks he knows everything, it will be unlikely that you break this law. Ofcourse there could be one or two things you would know more then your superior like 'speed googling' or programming but its usually shit that is not impressive and crucial for your role anyway. Also people can tell the difference between respecting someones opinion and expertise and sucking up to them to get ahead. Also its important to never take credit for your work at the start if you are doing your work alongside your mentor.

      [–]IceColdTang 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      There's a pocket version of this book, for those who want to have it accessible during a break and don't wanna carry that big orange book around.

      I recommend it owning it after you've read the original in its entirety, as the pocket version has less examples and focuses mainly on the ideas.

      edit: recommendation haha

      [–]pjewa[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      This is actually what I thought the book was from the beginning. When I ordered it from Amazon and it arrived here, I couldn't believe how dense it was, compared to my expectations of a pocket guide.

      [–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      compared to my expectations of a pocket guide

      Ah, if you want pocket Machiavellianism 48 Laws/Concise 48 isn't what you're after, Baltasar Gracian's "The Art of Worldly Wisdom" is.

      [–]Adanac23 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      these posts peaked my interest in this book. Decided to check it out and was looking reviews. The one thing that immediately caught my intention was how there were only two types of reviews. Great or Terrible. Usually something that has a polar effect like that is up my ally. I love seeing movies that tons of people tell me are terrible. I usually enjoy them most. Anyways I went to the local Barnes and Noble tonight to pick it up and couldn't for the life of me find it. Turns out they keep all of his books behind the cash registers like porn mags in a gas station. Haha I was shocked that a book store would keep things private like that. Anyways gonna read along the next 48 days.

      [–]Cryocasm -1 points0 points  (1 child)

      Any coincidence that this ends on the second of January next year?

      Damn OP, you missed the mark to make it 1 law a day for the rest of year by just 2 days.


      [–]pjewa[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Yeah...but hey, better than nothing.

      [–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

      I'm the way I am and I gladly live with whatever comes with it. At work, I come in, say "good morning" to all my coworkers, shake their hands and make some smalltalk. I just do my job the best I can and leave it at that. I've never kissed ass and I never will. I just don't go out of my way to do that. If the man I'm working for wants to take credit for what I do, I couldn't care less. As long as he pays me, it's all good.

      I guess this is a transgression but it's not like it hurts all that much. The only thing that matters to me is getting paid. I have everything I need because of the money so im fine. If you wanna brown-nose to the point that flies buzz around your mouth, that's fine. In some cases, that really is a smart thing to do.

      [–]TheDarkTriad 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      You should read it though. It's a great read and there's things in it that really make you think.

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      It really does. I've read the entire book. I apply some of the things and disregard others. Even Robert Greene himself has said he doesn't live by every law in the book.