top 200 commentsshow all 255

[–]duckspeed 123 points124 points  (98 children)

Yes the most attractive and desirable men will have their pick of the litter, but overall this is a recipe for social disintegration. In Germany it's already in full swing, with 40% of all female college graduates remaining childless. Not because they don't want kids, but because they cannot find a "decent" partner (source in German). Only the less intelligent and less educated will keep breeding, leading to a dysgenic downward spiral.

[–]JackGetsIt 58 points59 points  (51 children)

Only the less intelligent and less educated will keep breeding

This is a serious trend. It's also a trend that has been argued by previous generations. Even though it is unprovable I still agree with it and I wish there was something that could be done about it.

[–]2 MRedPillWatchTower[S] 77 points78 points  (50 children)

See the movie Idiocracy. Relevant movie is relevant.

[–]Just_Like_You 49 points50 points  (40 children)

I'm actually a biologist and I specialize in human evolution.

Humans have been growing 'dumber' for roughly 10,000 years. Agriculture and high population density are the factors most heavily correlated with a decrease in brain case volume over time.

20,000 years ago the volume of the average human brain was ~ 1,450 cm3. Today, the average human brain is ~ 1,200 cm3.

If you want to do your part in supporting the evolution of greater intelligence in our species, convince your intelligent peers to procreate more.

Most intelligent people value themselves as individuals more than they value their families. This is part of the root of why they are being out-competed by their less intelligent peers.

[–]Dark triad expert: - http://illimitablemen.com/ - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 30 points31 points  (15 children)

the fact that even before the babies mutate, they are most likely to be conceived by the least intelligent people, who prior to the modern social safety net, could not have afforded to feed children, if they could have even afforded to feed themselves.

And a third factor that Charlton doesn’t even mention (though he or Woodley have perhaps mentioned it elsewhere) is that people are having babies at older and older ages! So we have three major effects all contributing independently to the genetic decline:1) The least intelligent are having the most children, 2) parents of all IQ’s are having kids late in life, thus increasing mutation risk, and 3) the carriers of mutations are surviving at unprecedented rates to repeat the cycle.

In another fascinating post, Charlton cites an analogy by Michael A. Woodley explaining why dysgenic evolution occurs so much more rapidly than progressive evolution. In the latter, it’s like swimming upstream against the current because you’re constantly being pushed back by the flow of harmful mutations, so it takes a painfully long time for IQ to increase. But in the former, all the mutations propel your momentum, so it’s like rapidly skiing effortlessly down a hill. This makes perfect sense!

But here’s the question. Are there other examples of this? For example, animals who are kept in captivity must see even bigger declines in the mortality of their offspring. Are there examples of these animals changing by a full standard deviation in any trait in just four or five generations? And I’m not talking about deliberate selective breeding. I’m talking massive rapid genetic changes caused only by the elimination of natural selection. You would think, if this were true, that it would be a well understood phenomenon by now.

Source: https://brainsize.wordpress.com/2014/06/30/could-genetic-iq-really-have-declined-so-much-so-quickly/

Interesting as fuck. Apparently we've lost a standard deviation in a hundred years.

[–]FagMuffin 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Are we considered animals is captivity? I think yes.

[–]killego 8 points9 points  (2 children)

How would they know that since IQ is restandardized every generation? Also I thought I read somewhere that IQ is actually increasing -- so that a 100 today would've been ~115 a hundred years ago

[–]Dark-Ulfberht 5 points6 points  (3 children)

I have argued this many times, and of course have had the full range of SJW labels thrown at me because of it.

I'd actually argue that what's really going on is divergence. Intelligent people tend to mate with other intelligent people. Of course, these traits also correlate to some degree with attractiveness. So, what you have is a sexually selected split, where some groups are actually likely increasing in average intelligence, rather than a generic downward trend.

Of course, intelligent people also tend to have fewer children, and have them later. This has serious consequences. Let's take a cohort with an average IQ of 90 and another with an average IQ of 120. Now, let's say that the former has an average of 20 years per generation of reproduction whereas the latter has an average of 30. I don't think this is unrealistic, really.

Notice that even if each cohort has the same average number of offspring, the low IQ cohort will have 3 generations in 60 years, versus the high IQ cohort's 2. This is a huge difference! And, of course we know that the low IQ cohort will have more children on average, which only exaccerbates the problem.

So, while overall IQ is likely dropping, this doesn't tell the whole story. Some cohorts are actually getting smarter.

This means there's actually a glimmer of hope.

After all, only a very small proportion of people (1%-10%) have ever driven the human species forward technologically. These people tend to be far more intelligent than the bulk of humanity. And, as I just argued, it's likely that this group is actually getting smarter. Further, as technology advances, we need fewer and fewer low IQ people to execute the designs of their high IQ counterparts.

And, of course, technological advance vastly outpaces evolution by natural selection. So, in only a few generations, we will be able to augment human intellect in ways that make a 30 IQ point difference simply irrelevant.

So, while I agree with everything you and others have said, ultimately it's going to be a non-issue. After all, the average intelligence of a population is less relevant than the capacity of its most intelligent cohorts. We have plenty of those to develop technology that will ultimately make the problem moot.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Yes, this is what the Bell Curve was about 20 years ago.

[–]Dark-Ulfberht 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Charles Murray is my fucking hero.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

True intellectual bravery that the oh so tolerant liberal intellgentsia cannot accept.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Welcome to the real Red Pill.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Dark triad expert: - http://illimitablemen.com/ - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    That's in my Amazon wish list for later purchase. Thanks for the recommendation nevertheless, I look forward to reading it considering the name of the book has popped up a few times now.

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Cool information. It's ironic though that given the steady decline in brain case size there has been a massive growth in innovation that has only increased in rate over time.

    [–]OakTr3E 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    I think the tools society has created (through innovation) is helping more people to innovate further. This effect shadows the mental decline.

    [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (4 children)

    If you want to do your part in supporting the evolution of greater intelligence in our species, convince your intelligent peers to procreate more. Most intelligent people value themselves as individuals more than they value their families. This is part of the root of why they are being out-competed by their less intelligent peers.

    It's like saying that bacteria have out-competed eukaryotic life forms just because they outnumber them.

    Averages don't really matter. Only 5-10% of humans are responsible for pretty much all civilizational advances. And smart people tend to reproduce with smart people. The future of mankind is a type of Morlock/Eloi divide, where the former live in blissful ignorance guided by propaganda and unwittingly following their biological instincts, and the latter exploit their labor or votes through high-added-value industries (finance, government, high technology). It's been happening since the society has been established - aristocratic titles are hereditary, and today we instead have freedom to reproduce so the biological imperative takes over. Some cultures already went thorough such IQ bottleneck in their history (Ashkenazi Jews, Indian Parsis etc.) and in all instances they end up dominating the less cerebral folks.

    [–]JackGetsIt 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Morlock/Eloi divide

    I've read "The Time Machine" multiple times and until your comment I never really noticed that the morlock/eloi divide is really a Marxist interpretation of the future.

    [–]Redrog1 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    If you are a biologist you should know that brain volumen doesnt correlate with intelligence.

    [–]FourLokoKills 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Within humans, it actually does correlate within the same short-time period, but it's hard to impossible to say that it correlates across such a long time span.

    [–]JihadDerp 1 point2 points  (5 children)

    Does the size of a brain impact intelligence? I can Google a few animals that have larger brains than humans right now...

    [–]usul1628 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    Well, brain to body size ratio is a big correlation to intelligence between species. And, even without taking into account width, humans certainly haven't been evolving to be smaller. As a result of more and better food, the average height of a person has grown a few inches over 150 years.

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    As a result of more and better food, the average height of a person has grown a few inches over 150 years.

    Right, which has taken it back up to pre-agricultural levels. Ice Age European men were on average about 5'9, roughly similar to today's height, but they would have been more muscular with denser bones, so proportionally their brains would have been less of their overall mass than a modern European.

    [–]JihadDerp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    You literally made my question more ambiguous

    [–]Just_Like_You 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    The more important relationship is brain volume relative to body mass.

    Larger animals (in terms of total mass) require larger brains to handle the neural connections to their tissues. Ergo, their brain is largely dedicated to handling everyday (not metacognitive) tasks.

    [–]QraQen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Yes it can be but an important thing to keep in mind is that large animals such as whales need a larger brain to control bodily functions so in the animal world its not always a case of just larger brain; more intelligent.

    [–]OakTr3E 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I guess an exceptionally intelligent individual benefitted the tribe by being more of a loner who could be "working on his project" rather than being involved in more social stuff. That person probably impressed some type(s) of females and got to procreate but with less likelyhood of becoming a BB (think aloof omega).

    So from that stereotypical example, those of us who are disgusted by the idea of starting a family in todays society. We should fuck around without protection and change identity every so often as to not get caught into a parenting role? J/K ;)

    And anyway. Even if you spread "intelligent genes", children and society benefits from having a strong father figure.

    The only real option I see personally is to "not trying to change society". It is going downhill and any effort to change it is a waste of energy (and not only because of the current topic).

    [–]sath770 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    As a biologist, you should be aware that intelligence is not correlated with brain size, but rather the number of "folds". And you should also realize that we are getting smarter with every generation, see Flynn Effect.

    [–]Just_Like_You 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    see Flynn Effect.

    This is a result of education, not genetics. "Folds" aren't as important as popular culture would lead you to believe, they serve simply as things which increase net surface area with synaptic nodes.

    In the end, brain case volume shares a direct correlation with IQ.

    [–]sath770 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    After reading some more literature, you're right. There is a fairly positive correlation between brain size and IQ within each species populations (including Humans). Most of the literature gives a correlation between 0.2 and 0.45 for brain case volume and metal abilities (g, IQ, verbal...etc). Additionally, I could not find any literature that gives values for the the positive association between gyrification and intelligence.

    I should have done my homework before commenting.

    [–]AmazonExplorer 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    I'm not too worried about "idiots" breeding. The real stupid people are the ones brainwashed by feminism, and that takes a university education.

    [–]JackGetsIt 10 points11 points  (5 children)

    That was such a weird movie because it was a bit annoying to watch and then after watching it you take more notice of all the eerie parallels.

    [–]Draki1903 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    That's the best kind of satire - the one that is barely distinguishable from reality.

    [–][deleted]  (3 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]Redpillc0re 14 points15 points  (2 children)

      everyone bashes that movie but i loved it. it's sad that its becoming more true than imagined but still , love that movie

      [–]Danedina 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      You can remind the haters that it was co-written by Tom Stoppard. Then wait for them to ask "who?"

      [–]Karol754 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Welcome to Costco, I love you!

      [–]AssedM 27 points28 points  (13 children)

      The only problem in your conclusion is that you are equating a college education with innate inheritable intelligence. Knowledge is not intelligence. A college degree is just a social status indicator showing what your pedigree is to the elites that run the current system which happens to be falling. It is their arrogance and manipulated economic incentives created through government regulation which makes these woman believe that are better and price themselves out of the market.

      If you take another view on it, it is these woman that have fallen to the propoganda. That have forsaken their natural biological instincts in the most essential years, and when they finally realize / forced to realize their mistakes when they hit the wall, its too late. In reality, it is these woman who are the stupid ones and are being selected against for their susceptibly to mainstream programming.

      Social disintegration has to happen due to the real wealth that was created by our forefathers has been all spent on this failed social experiment in the name of progress. The system is now both economically and morally bankrupt and has to have a reset.

      This has happened many times before. The cycle seems to follow the pattern of an empire collapsing, followed by a long dark age period and then a 'golden age' period of wealth creation and enlightenment. As the wealth is created, the vampires come out to play again after their slumber, consolidate the wealth and expand their empire again through war and manipulation. The jews are often blamed.

      [–]duckspeed 19 points20 points  (0 children)

      In reality, it is these woman who are the stupid ones and are being selected against for their susceptibly to mainstream programming.

      Well in practical terms for Germany it means that the Turkish and other Muslim immigrants are fucking and breeding like rabbits while the fertility rate of native German women has dropped even below Japanese standards. The Turks in Germany may have a successful reproductive strategy but I wouldn't call them intelligent, neither as a group nor as individuals.

      [–]reallybloodylongname 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      nah. you just convince the SJW that alimony and childsupport are making her dependant on a man and what they really need is to be entitled to a government benefit regardless of their income and they will start pumping out babies like no tomorrow. they will just hook up with someone and get pregnant.

      [–]OWNNWONOW 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I been around the world and found that only stupid people are breeding. The cretons cloning and feeding.

      [–]snukums 6 points7 points  (27 children)

      "leading to a dysgenic downward spiral"

      Depending on the genetic quality of the men awarded the most breeding opportunities, which we would assume to be high quality men due to high female standards, this isn't necessarily the case.

      [–]2 MRedPillWatchTower[S] 47 points48 points  (13 children)

      which we would assume to be high quality men due to high female standards, this isn't necessarily the case.

      The problem is that today's women have categorically re-classified what is considered "high quality" today. Women have chosen "r-selected" (alpha/reproductive driven) men overwhelmingly, to the detriment of "K-selected" (caretaker/build civilization driven) men. Historically, women have seen "high quality" as a balance somewhere in the middle of the two. This is no longer the case.

      While this may be good in the short term, both for Alpha men and for gina tingles, it will generally have a massive detriment on society as a whole, because the K-selected Betas, who used to be motivated to produce and build society, will just drop their shovels and go home, because they aren't being rewarded with any incentives (pussy/family) to keep up the hard work.

      This is why TRP says "enjoy the decline".

      [–]Redpillc0re 14 points15 points  (4 children)

      it's a numbers game and the numbers show that intelligence is losing. look at whats happening in europe with its abysmally low birth rates and high immigration rates.

      [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children)

      This really does seem to be a white/european problem. Go to any asian society and you'll realize that there are major red pill undercurrents that characterize asian culture. The nuclear family is very much still in place in places such as China, and population is only booming. The west has failed and is suffering.

      This doesn't only apply to eastern asians. I hear Russia/Ukraine also has a similar dynamic.

      [–]Jovianmoons 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Its sad the nuance of this will be completely lost on the people who rule us. In a generation or two there will be nothing to rule, at this rate.

      [–]JackGetsIt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      ...will just drop their shovels and go home, because they aren't being rewarded with any incentives (pussy/family) to keep up the hard work

      This is already happening on a wide scale. The epidemic in Japan and China of young men gaming all day is really sad.

      [–][deleted]  (3 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]attractive_craft 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        In present day you often hear people say "I want to do X so that my children's children's generation will live happily."

        Personal anecdote, I can't even remember the last time I heard someone say this.

        [–]lonewarr 23 points24 points  (11 children)

        Except for the fact that among the "alpha" traits that women are attracted to for short-term mating, intelligence and education aren't the most valued. Instead, muscle, height, and ability to feign social status (game) are prized. If things stay the way they are now, genes for intelligence will not be selected for as strongly as they were in the past. Expect to see a lowering of society's average IQ.

        [–]2 MRedPillWatchTower[S] 24 points25 points  (1 child)

        genes for intelligence will not be selected for as strongly as they were in the past. Expect to see a lowering of society's average IQ.

        And therefore a crumbling of society as a whole. Beta men will (and currently are) leave not only the sexual marketplace, but the economic one as well, due to demotivation. If a man resigns himself to life as a masturbating incel who plays video games, he doesn't need to make a bunch of money and buy a big house to do that. All he needs is a mediocre job and a one bedroom apartment.

        This attitude will be massively bad for the economy over the long term.

        [–]WindowToAlaska 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        They'll be replaced by computers and machine labor. Seriously.

        [–]BluepillProfessor 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        Expect to see a lowering of society's average IQ.

        Don't worry we are on it already.

        [–]Sidgil 2 points3 points  (5 children)

        I'm no scientist, but wouldn't the smarter men in future generations realize their situation? I think that intelligent men would follow the red pill or its future equivalent, thus becoming their generation's alphas.

        [–]lonewarr 12 points13 points  (2 children)

        Many of the "alpha" traits that women desire for short-term mating are strongly influenced by genetics, such as body type. While it is possible for men to improve their SMV, much of the game is decided before birth. So there is only so much that men born with intelligence but without alpha traits can do. Although there will always be men with both high SMV and intelligence, on average men will become less intelligent because intelligence will not be selected for.

        [–]attractive_craft 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        on average men will become less intelligent because intelligence will not be selected for.

        on average all children will become less intelligent because intelligence is not being selected.

        [–]TurgidMeatWand 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Only if they can break through the beta haze of "you'll make a good husband someday"

        Most media and advice that anyone gives is designed to reinforce beta behavior. lots of betas are getting frustrated because they are doing what they think they are supposed to to be what they've been duped into believing what success is and failing at it.

        More and more are going the grassester/omega with a silicone girlfriend route.

        [–]LosingMoneyAllDay 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        In future generations, there won't be any smarter men. As dynamics shift, the alpha kids are going to be brought up by BB providers. This will result in a much more blue pill society, as there will be less and less alpha men raising the next generation. It's a self propagating cycle.

        [–]rumo_itaki 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Uhm isn't the problem in germany german females dont want to mate with less intelligent males? Basically saying they don't want "alpha" traits but are actually looking for good genes?

        [–]Redpillc0re 6 points7 points  (1 child)

        And why are all gentlemen here concerned about the decline? Face it guys you don't have anything to win either way . You might as well find meaning in solitary projects and let society go fuck itself.

        [–]newlifeasredpill 149 points150 points  (26 children)

        I predict solo weddings and herbivore men who dont like sex. They prefer hanging out at home doing arts and crafts...oh snap..that's JAPAN 2014

        [–]AlcohoIicSemenThrowe 47 points48 points  (9 children)

        If you want to know what the future will be like, look at Japan.

        [–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (8 children)

        That's what a unified culture going full herbivore looks like.

        America is going to more resemble Brazil, with a hint of South Africa.

        [–]tallwheel 0 points1 point  (4 children)

        In what ways? Can you elaborate?

        [–]1johnnight 4 points5 points  (3 children)

        I guess he means Latin-American immigration plus low-intensity ethnic warfare à la South Africa.

        The shape of a society is the result of its ethnicities' cultures. And the problem of Malthusian over-population. I feel like the whole planet is going in a direction of "let's have ethnic wars".

        [–]feelinglazy 4 points5 points  (1 child)

        Ethnic warfare? Can you elaborate more on this?

        [–][deleted]  (12 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]DanReggins 30 points31 points  (0 children)

          Not so different from many places in the West.

          It's too hard to even get started (let alone get ahead). Both seem to require excellent connections. Merit is far down on the priority list. Even then... for what? 12+ hour days 6-7 days a week? To be married to someone post-wall post-carousel who might give you a kid not even yours (that you're now financially responsible for?) Who might divorce you and take all your stuff when you finally retire?

          Not to mention the older generations who had it easier and don't understand why "kids" these days don't (not "can't") immediately get an amazing job right after high school or uni.

          Men today bring this up when asked, but are dismissed for being "negative" and "not trying anyway"... but maybe they have tried. Maybe a simple dismissal doesn't address any of the issues above.

          For many, it's just not worth it anymore.

          Look up "hikikomori" for another aspect on it.

          [–]gbatemper123 38 points39 points  (5 children)

          It's actually mostly due to financial reasons. People are having sex, just not making babies.

          Work in Japan is terrible, they expect you to work overtime no pay, become a loyal dog to your company (This is expected), then be thrown away like a piece of shit. Constantly come home late, work on weekends, work on things that's not your job and you won't get paid for, etc etc. And land in Japan is very expensive too. It's financially too difficult for men to support a family, buy a house, and settle.

          Many more don't even have any time to actually pursue a relationship or spend money on it, or they're not interested in it because of work. Things like a huge sex toy industry, hentai/porn industry, and psuedo-legalized prostitution support this, because they provide relief/sex without any of the time waste.

          [–]AtticusWarhol 2 points3 points  (4 children)

          The Japanese government loosely enforces prostitution so the men would work longer and harder because they believe once men get married they become weak and complacent.

          The definition of prostitution is strictly limited to coitus.[20] This means sale of numerous acts such as oral sex, anal sex, mammary intercourse and other non-coital sex acts are legal.

          http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Japan

          [–]mysterymanstan 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          limited to colitis immediately before so anal and oral sex are permitted

          [–]AtticusWarhol 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I believe that's called "unko chin chin tabete"

          [–]skyclown 8 points9 points  (1 child)

          Read the mouse experiments part here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Calhoun then watch this http://vimeo.com/28627261.

          [–]shakejimmy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          The current state of man was predicted.

          [–]newlifeasredpill 5 points6 points  (2 children)

          I am no expert but was under the impression that the "salary man" of the booming Japanese 80s economy used to turn over his check to the wife and get an allowance. Beta beta beta. As their economy suffered many young men rejected this lifestyle of grueling work and opted to live for themselves. It's not clear to me why they chose a lifestyle of makeup hair products and sex toys instead of women

          [–]TurgidMeatWand 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          Feminine"sexual liberation" attitudes have infected Japanese wommens to some degree. Combine that with the government/socially enforced work ethic and why wouldn't you?

          [–]attractive_craft 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          My dad willingly chose to turn his paycheck over to his wife. Actually sought out a woman to do this (second wife). He told me that she beats him sometimes. Nobody asked but hey, maybe you ought to know.

          [–]1Jaereth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Funny you said that. While i was reading op's post about men having advanced vidya as their out, I thought of Japan

          [–]attractive_craft 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Yeah they woke up to the fact that their wives were stashing money away and giving men a paltry portion of their salary as allowance. So why get married if you hardly get sex and then most of your salary is taken away, when you could just live on the cheap and enjoy being a single male forever?

          [–]Xbitz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Actually the only difference between Japan and western Europe or America, is that Japan doesn't allow unchecked immigration. These immigrates give a false bump to the birth rate.

          Whites have stopped breeding due to feminism

          [–]Dark triad expert: - http://illimitablemen.com/ - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 84 points85 points  (16 children)

          I thought I gave a shit about women, you know, as people and all that shit. I originally found TRP in an attempt to understand them better, I thought I was the problem. Turns out I was, and I accepted that, and like any self-aware unplugged guy I fucking fight for my masculinity everyday by staying aware and bettering myself. But then I found that it wasn't just me that was fucked up, it was almost everyone, women are really fucked up. The state of modern women is terrible. All their worst traits have begun to fully manifest under feminism and they are going feral. Without men to domesticate/guide/lead them women become abominations. They are repulsive on the psychological and spiritual level. Physically you want to fuck them, but mentally you can't fucking stand them. They inspire nothing but annoyance.

          I can only account for myself and change myself, I can't undo hypergamy or culturally engrained narcissism/feminism. So when I discovered the truth about women and started applying RP to my interactions with them and piecing everything together, I stopped giving a fuck. I stopped trying to see them as equals that I misunderstood or some other bullshit, because I realise they are not equals. They are beneath us, they are more limited, and even at their best, they are destined to follow, not lead. Despite the "second sex" position, it is possible to respect a woman if she is raised right, smart enough and etc. Unfortunately these quality women are rare. Women suck at raising women just like they do at raising men, hence all the dysfunctionalism we have now from all these single mother families.

          I can't respect womankind as a whole knowing what I do about them. Even when you do respect a woman because she is remarkable in some way, you will know what her true underlying nature is, you know what she's capable of, you can never fully trust a woman that isn't your mother. Most responsible teenager in the house sounds about right to me. Now the only thing I want to do is fuck and chuck because other than sex appeal, men are superior in about every way compared to women. They are better friends, more loyal, more interesting to talk to, funnier, less annoying/demanding/emotionally taxing, need I fucking go on? One day I'll go to a male friendly country where a woman can't just destroy the family at the drop of a hat and start my family there. What we have here? I'm not interested in this bullshit. Plates until I go Patriarch then I'm dropping out of the west and getting me a non-western bitch. Committing to these hyper-hypergamous vapid harpies is futile.

          [–]Redpillc0re 30 points31 points  (3 children)

          One day I'll go to a male friendly country where a woman can't just destroy the family at the drop of a hat and start my family there

          you'll need a rocket to get there

          [–]3 Endorsed ContributorF9R 20 points21 points  (1 child)

          Oh yeah, women still haven't gone to the moon. I don't know how to tie that in to the conversation, but thanks for the reminder.

          [–]suloco 2 points3 points  (4 children)

          I can't respect womankind as a whole knowing what I do about them.

          A couple of years ago I had the same disenchanting moment with humanity as a whole. You cannot respect mankind as a whole too, one can only respect certain individuals since the majority of anything is mediocre at best. Respect is earned, it's not anyone's right to be respected.

          [–]Dark triad expert: - http://illimitablemen.com/ - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 9 points10 points  (3 children)

          Certainly. The point is, I can with far more frequency find a respectable man than I can a respectable woman. And as much as I can respect the best of the best when it comes to female capability and attitude, that will never not be tainted by the sheer mercenaryness of their sexual imperative. Men are not mercenary in matters of love and loyalty, women are. Men cheat out of sexual need, women, out of emotional - a larger betrayal. In essence, women's loyalty is so conditional and contingent on being in an position of inferiority in relation to a male position of power that deeming them equals is a ridiculous foolhardy notion. They need to be weaker than you so they feel like they have something to gain by associating with you (Briffault's Law) - men to a larger degree seem to show a capacity to gain from both those weaker and stronger than them. Men demonstrate a more pronounced capacity for selflessness, a selflessness necessary for turning the cogs on the wheels of civilization.

          When you actually give them equal power, or more power, their worst traits manifest, as we have seen from feminist social engineering. Their femininity is corrupted by power and they become unfeminine. They can no longer respect you nor you, they. They inadvertently demand your superiority to be even likeable or tolerable to you as a man. They think they want to be better than you, but they're only actually happy if you're better than them. Women lack self-awareness and are largely counter-intuitive creatures. In essence, women are quite psychopathic towards male weakness (or not even weakness, but just relative inferiority.) Simply put, they just do not care or have the capacity to respect or love men weaker or inferior to themselves whereas we as men are fully capable of respecting and loving both men and women inferior to ourselves. Hence the prevailing RP attitude "treat them like children." Their limited capacity for appreciation and loyalty is their ultimate undoing, arguably more so than their lack of rationalism. I could go on about this for ages and you could misinterpret me in any number of ways because this is quite nuanced, so I shall stop there.

          [–]suloco 1 point2 points  (2 children)

          I hear you, even a woman who qualifies by standards of performance in one field or another as excellent will at the end of the day still a woman. The thing is though, I do not hold a woman to expectations I have of a man. Nor do I think of them as equal to men.

          TRP taught me not to judge. Male weakness is frowned upon for a good reason - it is dangerous to the tribe the male lives in. There is no such demand for women - if anything, more fearful woman will be better for security of children. The empathy men feel for

          In the same respect, women have limited ways of surpassing men, usually not rooted in actual performance or measurable success. Therefore they try to better themselves through regurgitation of selected virtuous aspects of nature of the Woman, conveniently leaving out the shortcommings or outright turning them into something positive. This is powerful self-deluding, when sung in unison with the rest of the harpies, it is more powerful still.

          ''Women are less violent'' (Yes, they are more likely to run than to fight) ''Women are maturing faster'' (Yes but their peak of maturity is below men's) ''Women can do more things at once'' (Yes but they are much more easily distracted and cannot focus as well as men)

          Why do men appreciate loyalty? Because it allows for cooperation, structure and creation. But loyalty of a weak or foolish man is more a curse than a blessing to any man. And it is far less than that to any woman. We may take pity upon such loyal fools but there is no reason to love them or feel compassion. The truth is that men are more tolerable of weakness when it is made up by say intelligence (or other positives) because to a man, that is still a value he can use. But what biological interest has a woman in intelligent, yet weak man? She's not his mother nor is she of same blood as him. That makes him a potential mate. Better show him there will be no chance to pass his genes on via her.

          We are all wired to disregard male suffering and to look after women. That is how we are, me, you and every single person on this planet. The only dissonance comes from false prism of reality that modern hyper-correct society operates.

          [–]Dark triad expert: - http://illimitablemen.com/ - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          An interesting response with some powerful points, I do however wish to know what the rest of this excerpt was going to say (as it quite abruptly cut off)

          TRP taught me not to judge. Male weakness is frowned upon for a good reason - it is dangerous to the tribe the male lives in. There is no such demand for women - if anything, more fearful woman will be better for security of children. The empathy men feel for

          This point:

          We are all wired to disregard male suffering and to look after women. That is how we are, me, you and every single person on this planet.

          Is true, however in spite of that I am not totally indifferent/uncaring to male weakness or the plight of male kind. Yes I have DT traits, yes I can "stop myself caring" but the fact of the matter is, I do care, and I actually have something to "turn off." Women simply "do not care" they do not have to make themselves "not care" about men because they don't give a fuck as a default setting.

          My compassion for mankind is why I run a blog aimed at assisting men to make themselves more powerful. It's not just to help myself and increase my own profile/make money or whatever (although I'd be lying if I said I didn't value those things,) but likewise it is because I actually give a fuck about the state of modern men and the huge lack of masculinity in their lives. How damaging that is to men and male well-being. For many we'll have to angle the betterment of men with "we need to help men so men can be good to women again" and that's the only way they'll give a fuck about male problems, but for me, helping men in and of itself is enough. I believe seeing a beta turn alpha or a boy become a man is an incredibly rewarding process. It increases my competition, but I don't have a scarcity mentality so I don't care. I'm confident I'm remarkable enough in and of myself not to suffer from increased competition. No crab bucket mentality here. I think the world needs better, stronger men independent of what women want or need or how "the average man being better" affects them.

          I do believe that aside our sexual habits, men are far less rigidly constrained by their biological natures than women in matters of thought and behaviour. In that way, the clarity of our logic sets us free from the emotional impulses that govern the female method of thought and communication. We can suppress anger (probably our most dominant emotion,) "hold frame" in the face of mental violence, help others with no benefit to ourselves and etc. Women don't buck the trend like that. They react to almost all their own emotions and struggle not to, they WANT TO go on that ride, they relish in it. They are predictable and unremarkable. Hence I think we concur, you cannot judge women by male standards because they are inferior to men. You have to judge women by their own set of lesser standards. Unfortunately even by female standards, the majority of women are occupying the lower end of the female desirability bell curve. Even by female standards, in the current time we find ourselves a massive lack of respectable women. Resources aside, psychologically speaking women can't even raise girls right, they need a man to do that too. Ironic, yet hilarious.

          [–]suloco 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Let me just say upfront that I really understand where you are coming from regarding your investment in bettering of men and I salute you for it. It is part of the whole TRP along with Rollo's, ChB and many others that helped me to understand what I believe is one of the most essential knowledge a young man can internalize.

          The cut off was supposed to say: The empathy men feel for lesser men is understandable. Men are less prone to solipsism and more open-minded. I would argue though, that everyone, not just women have 'prerequisites' that must be met in order to feel empathy. Usually the more the object of our empathy is similar to ourselves (or younger, older, different version of ourselves), the more readily we identify and empathize with it. We feel empathy for unplugged men, or men struggling with the pill but much less so for women who are actually damaged by single-mother parenting and/or all the other shit. Why? In my eyes they deserve empathy as well, they are the ones who are unable to disconnect from the feminine matrix and see the truth. At least for many men there is still hope.

          My point is everyone have their precursors for empathy. We can argue that women are less capable of the emotion and are more selfish than men but why? Women were never the leaders. A true leader needs empathy not for empathy's sake, but to be able to see things (and yes, feel things) from different perspectives of his subordinates. This is crucial awareness for anyone who doesn't want to be dethroned.

          So I don't expect much empathy from women towards men that biologically signal they are inept for procreation since procreation and child-rearing is women's main focus of attention.

          I certainly do not expect any empathy from recently unplugged men (especially after some traumatic experiences with women) toward damaged-goods girls speeding to the wall not knowing what they destroy by their behavior (which is only the result of men enabling women to behave like this).

          Because I left the anger phase successfully behind and am therefore free to look on things from better perspective, I simply try and take everything on it's own terms.

          help others with no benefit to ourselves and etc.

          IMO there is always benefit. It may be the good feeling we get from helping someone on our own and the gratitude the other party expresses for our help. It may be, like for yourself, the good feeling of doing what one considers right thing. This is much more of a motivation for people with goals than any material reward. But there is always something to be had.

          Women don't buck the trend like that.

          Many women do voluntary charity work. That is not argument, that is just a fact. The thing is: why? Is it because they are so much better and empathic than men? Soup kitchen serve mostly homeless. Majority of homeless are men. If these women would react purely biologically, they would throw the hot soup into the bum's face and scream rape! There has to be reason women are doing this. I think the reasons are:

          • Image and self-image. They wanna feel good about themselves and want OTHERS to know about their do-gooding. 'Am I a horrible person for cheating?? Fuck you I volunteer and help the homeless I'm a fucking great person!'

          • It is female level of community work. Men build communities, women tend to them (at least used to).

          • Actual empathy. As much as bleak a picture TRP paints women to be I am sure there are still great people among them. Flawed, yes but so are we all. There are still girls with fathers who rule their families or at least are not total pushovers.

          Disclaimer: For you to understand my POV, please note that me being from Central Europe (Prague), I simply do not come in contact with that many vitriolic entitled self-proclaimed feminist bitches as your average Englishman or American (or Australian for that matter).

          [–]sunwukong155 2 points3 points  (2 children)

          What I have been thinking about doing is simply adopting a child while I am single, so that the kid is completely legally mine. Than simply enter into a LTR with a women outside of marriage.

          She can live with me, be my partner, do wife stuff, be a mother to my son, do all thats shit rational people expect of their wife. But don't marry, don't have kids with her. This is the only way I can see it work.

          The man retains control over his money, his child and if the women fucks up there is nothing to stop me from kicking her out. Better than risking divorce.

          [–]Grainslol 31 points32 points  (1 child)

          This is explained thoroughly in the Misandry Bubble from the sidebar. The government can swing in and provide monetary benefits to the woman and there is no disincentive for divorce on the woman's part as she can cash in without penalty. Thus formerly "beta" men like all of us have to condition ourselves to let go of the idea of having a committed partner because there are no more controls on hypergamy. Marriage was the control, and thanks to feminism, we now have unchained hypergamy which is fundamentally toxic to monogamy. Therefore you get generations of men who have no genuinely altruistic reason to work hard or risk lives.

          [–]2 MRedPillWatchTower[S] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

          This is explained thoroughly in the Misandry Bubble from the sidebar.

          It most certainly is. The MB post is a legendary piece of RP theory, I was just trying to highlight its merits by pointing to an example of it "in the wild"; in an "applied science" form, so to speak.

          Through a BP prism, a lot of guys take what women say both IRL and on Reddit at face value, and this is at their peril. Now, through a RP prism, when I read stuff like I read in the PPD post that I got those quotes from, it's like my brain just decodes it from "femme-speak" to what she's really saying.

          [–]dicklord_airplane 48 points49 points  (5 children)

          a society can only decline when its men see fewer and fewer rewards and guarantees for working hard and climbing the social ladder. it is all too obvious to any guy who enters the real working world that being a good provider and good citizen is mostly irrelevant to getting what men generally want, which is sex and sexual validation... so a lot of potentially productive and innovative men will not trouble themselves with all that work.

          sometimes I question my own professional ambition in science in light of this. but then I remember that I like luxury and security, so I must.

          I'm personally seeing it happen. my good old buddy (age 27, professional scientist that's worked a good field job for a few years) just got divorced this summer when his wife cheated on him, and so he decided to sell his house, move to the mountains, and teach snowboarding lessons this winter instead of continuing his career. this motherfucker is tall, fit, and a natural at picking up girls, and has been slaying pussy left and right since the divorce.

          he is certainly never getting married again, and he may never return to STEM or business, and that would be a waste of his intelligence and degree. that fact is that he's getting way more satisfaction being a poor ski bum than he ever did as a husband/provider/career man. he's getting way more quality ass living as a ski bum than we ever could as full time STEM professionals, and this does not bode well for society. men follow incentives and cost/benefit analysis, and the incentives are all backwards.

          [–]RedPillProphet 16 points17 points  (2 children)

          Hah! As a software developer who just turned down a shit tonne of money and is actively looking to step down to the easiest possible job now, I couldn't agree more.

          I'd be 10X happier with half the money as long as its putting me in a position to get more ass.

          [–]betablueballs 20 points21 points  (1 child)

          Then do it. You owe society nothing. And as long as people think along those lines without proper incentives for citizens, the more we as a country will be forced to wake up. MGTOW, FTW!

          [–]attractive_craft 7 points8 points  (0 children)

          As soon as I finish paying off my student loans and get a modest investment nest egg, which should take no more than two years, I am quitting my high tech job and doing something similar. I had more satisfaction working part time, training as an amateur athlete, and having multiple girlfriends. Girls don't care if you're not rich if you're attractive, charismatic, and have a good body. Working in high tech on the other hand means you will have all your free time taken up by working, will be forced to live in a place and lifestyle that works for your career/location, and most importantly, you won't be around women. I've done this for about 2 years now, and this is what I've found.

          [–]metallica11 35 points36 points  (20 children)

          suddenly it makes sense why the hawttttt HS/college dropout who can't maintain stable job but has all the time in the world to "explore" and develop his game and attracttive"aloof" attidue (a result of having no direction and no ambitions) is able to attract so many women. If he has a nice square jaw, is muscular, and is 6'2" and can talk decently well, he will be getting laid more than the 5'9 senior software engineer making 150,000K that owns his own condo.

          All women see nowadays is the hawwwwtt (looks) and personality (game). Neither of them related to ambition/career/most talents. I would hedge to bet that there is actual an INVERSE relationship. The more time you spend on your career and rock climbing the less time you have to go out an work on your game and your looks.

          [–]2 MRedPillWatchTower[S] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

          5'9 senior software engineer making 150,000K that owns his own condo.

          This is very, very well documented in "Michael's Story" in the sidebar. If you've never read it, it is eerily familiar to a guy who recently just took TRP.

          [–]1whatsazipper 5 points6 points  (1 child)

          The software engineer could turn that around by becoming muscular/athletic, outgoing, interesting, etc. He will have more wealth at his disposal to accomplish truly interesting feats in life.

          Time is more limited but that means make every moment count. Ditch all useless or low value activities.

          [–]NoRegretj 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Not sure why people don't understand this. You can also quit jobs temporarily and go spend your money on a hobby and possibly return to the same one after. There is a TON of openings and if you can talk to an employer with legit experience, how can you NOT get hired

          [–]nuetraveler 16 points17 points  (4 children)

          Or, now this is crazy, but bear with me:

          Maybe you could see life as more than just sticking your dick into a vagina. Perhaps--and I know this is insane--there's more to life. Perhaps there's more to accomplish than "working on your game."

          Crazy, right?

          [–]AssedM 13 points14 points  (1 child)

          According to Maslow's hierarchy of needs, the drive for sex is an essential physical basic need for sustained happiness. Sex is like air, its not important unless you don't have any, then it feels like the most important thing in the world.

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Yes, but Maslow's hierarchy of needs is not a very useful, nor empirically sound model.

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Yes, but sex is still very important, which is why "the patriarchy" was just a way to secure sex for men who did prosocial things.

          [–]redcamouflage 6 points7 points  (10 children)

          True. But trade "senior software designer" with "lawyer" and suddenly he's better off than the hawwwwtt guy. Status trumps all.

          There are beta-bux careers like computer programming and then their are high status careers like being a physician, which WILL grant you massive SMV bonuses alongside a fat paycheck. I'm going into IT and I will absolutely not be disclosing that fact to the women in my life. I realize that its a negative-SMV profession.

          [–]1whatsazipper 8 points9 points  (7 children)

          People can't relate to computing or engineering by default. It's beyond their brains or they're intimidated, and it has no obvious social function despite being the foundation of society. Thus if you give it to them straight it'll fall on deaf ears and may even hurt you. The limitation is often reinforced by men in these professions being otherwise bland or boring.

          [–][deleted]  (5 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]analredemption12 1 point2 points  (2 children)

            Great point. I'm a software guy and the only times I've seen it spark interest is when I bring up stories about hacking people/things. Ultimately, software has the potential to be extremely powerful (i.e. cyberwarfare, or other nefarious applications like high frequency trading algorithms), but your average software guy is making pretty good money legally and the risk isn't worth it. As far as girls are concerned you're better off being a drug dealer. The solution is to not talk about your profession and remain a mystery.

            [–]1whatsazipper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Being creative and playful is always more effective then dropping into serious discussion about profession, unless you're submitting your beta bux application.

            [–]Endorsed Contributorcocaine_face 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            This is why the solution is to find a niche, and be an entrepreneur. That way you're a leader of men, first and foremost in their minds. Hell, if you even have enough work to farm out to a couple part-time employees (maybe 5-20 hours tops a week), she'll automatically view you as higher value.

            [–]1whatsazipper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            It's because it doesn't involve discernable power over other people.

            Right, they have no general social cues. In the absence of general social cues people have to think, and the typical person is not going to grasp the value in science and technology. Any obvious or direct social relation conveys recognizable status (and is the strongest determination thereof).

            [–]usul1628 4 points5 points  (0 children)

            I tell women I do "design engineering" which is of course the exact same fucking thing as "engineering", but its got a buzzword that evokes a different image, so it seems better.

            [–]Hoodwink 8 points9 points  (1 child)

            Physician is beta-bux. Most don't have girlfriends in college or med-school. They get out and they have little experience with women. They also spend most of their time away from the family with long hours at work. Easy to cheat. They're usually the perfect prey.

            [–]1grendalor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            I agree with this. Lawyers vary -- some are classical alpha types, but most are just betas looking for a secure job. These are also typical BBs, and great prey.

            [–]dazerzooz 14 points15 points  (1 child)

            Sucks for ugly hardworking guys like myself.

            Gotta keep my game super sharp, always. And keep liftin. Always liftin.

            [–]lonewarr 29 points30 points  (1 child)

            These are the kinds of posts that originally drew me into TRP. I'm glad to see this sub isn't getting filled with MRA/Seddit trash like it was a couple months ago. This kind of information explains so much of the insanity I see on a day-to-day basis as a young man at a renowned university. None of the politically correct theories offered by mainstream media sources, such as the recession, can explain how radically different the "dating" scene is today from our parents' and grandparents' time. And the sad thing is there's very few outlets outside of TRP to get this kind of information from.

            [–]Karol754 62 points63 points  (11 children)

            You don't need to actually be top 20% just paint an illusion that you are. Lift, read, be funny and stand up for yourself, and you are golden.

            And, bitches be crazy.

            Edit: Be the best man you can be and dont stress that you cant be Will Smith or Tom Cruise.

            [–]100 Modbsutansalt 54 points55 points  (9 children)

            Faking it until you make it is only good for flash game, not real relationships. If you don't truly improve yourself and just act like someone with high SMV, eventually your true self will shine through. If you're in a relationship, you'll likely end up being dumped and starting back over at square 1.

            Total self-improvement is where it's at, but that takes years before things come full circle. The sooner your start, the sooner you'll have the life-long benefits that come from it. Alternatively of course, you could forgo LTRs and just run through plate after plate. That'll work for a while, but eventually most guys end up in a relationship sooner or later. Those who are still low-SMV at heart will almost always have problems in LTRs for the rest of their lives.

            [–]2 MRedPillWatchTower[S] 41 points42 points  (5 children)

            Faking it until you make it is only good for flash game, not real relationships. If you don't truly improve yourself and just act like someone with high SMV, eventually your true self will shine through. If you're in a relationship, you'll likely end up being dumped and starting back over at square 1.

            So fucking true. Spraying Cool Whip all over a turd doesn't make it a Boston Cream Pie.

            [–]dj10show 25 points26 points  (1 child)

            She'll get her Cream Pie though. It just won't be yours.

            [–]2 MRedPillWatchTower[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

            I should have ended that post with an "inb4". Totally saw the creampie reference coming.

            [–]SlappaDaBayssMon 5 points6 points  (0 children)

            While this is true, everybody needs to fake it in the beginning. It's the first step, but it won't take you to the second.

            [–]t21spectre 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Another variation: you can turn shit into a gourmet meal, but in the end you're still eating shit.

            [–]tindermaster1986 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Lol at your Boston Cream Pie comment.

            [–]Karol754 5 points6 points  (0 children)

            I agree. I meant 20 % in a sense that you do not need to rival George Cloney just be your best self.

            [–]1grendalor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Those who are still low-SMV at heart will almost always have problems in LTRs for the rest of their lives.

            Absolutely true. Faking it is fine for plates, but in an LTR you need to actually bring it, and if you don't, your life will be much worse after divorce/palimony than if you had never had the relationship to begin with. Currently we severely punish men for the crime of entering LTRs with women when they don't have the SMV to sustain them. Severely punish.

            [–]1Dev_on 20 points21 points  (2 children)

            Tbh. There times where the line guy in the cabin in the middle of nowhere doesn't seem bad

            [–]anderjb 13 points14 points  (1 child)

            Just got back from a cabin / shooting trip where the nearest town was 20 miles away..no phone service, propane and a generator for our needs..heaven.

            Came back to reality (iPhones, stupid people, consumerism culture) and decided I hate it more and more as I get older.

            [–]1Dev_on 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Damn. And I hated the outdoors as well.

            [–]justmanthings 41 points42 points  (18 children)

            "You have a choice to make. If you didn't have an incentive to get to the top 20% by now gentlemen, I don't know what will give you that drive."

            You make it sound like being in the top 20% is the only way to live a happy, fulfilled life. There are many men who just don't give a fuck what women think of them, regardless of how women would rate them.

            [–]anderjb 9 points10 points  (17 children)

            I agree. If you're so concerned with achieving a 'top 20%' as defined by what you think women want, that doesn't seem very red pill. Shouldn't you just do YOU and say fuck it to any "percentage"?

            Men who have their shit together, are happy with life, and don't care what people think (generally) also don't care about fitting some 'bill' or hierarchy of men...

            [–]attractive_craft 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            I agree with this. To me this is individual freedom, defining your own reality and values.

            [–][deleted]  (6 children)

            [deleted]

              [–]TravellingIndian 11 points12 points  (2 children)

              The problem with your analysis is that not every man is getting the cheap sex on every corner from every woman.. there's a reason this post talks about getting to the top 20%

              [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

              Its a lull, we're running on the fumes of past generations stability, trying to patch together the economy and society with small measures that will eventually fail.

              [–]RedPillProphet 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              A more fair comparison would be involuntary celibacy of today to the workhorse life of a few decades ago.

              [–]scamper_22 6 points7 points  (2 children)

              "You have a choice to make. If you didn't have an incentive to get to the top 20% by now gentlemen, I don't know what will give you that drive."

              Well that is the thing. I don't think the men who have no drive or motivation and spend their time with mindless entertainment don't know that. They know there is not much to live for. That is generally why MGTOW.

              But it certainly is rational and better to mindlessly waste your days, than work hard for little benefit or for the benefit of a woman who can then play house.

              [–]DollarWill 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              "A wasted youth is better, by far, than a wise an productive old age." Bonus points if you get the reference.

              [–]bobbatosakosanose 8 points9 points  (0 children)

              I don't really see it as a bad thing. Men might actually live longer if we no longer have to contend with the stresses of family and a wife. A single man is not really an anomaly. Men are used to solitude more than women. We don't need their commitment and sex can be bought. So pursue your business iseas or hobbies. You are still much better off than cat ladies. Men don't need women around to have a good social time or create things. We are the horses, women are the carriage. They need us more than we need them. They will chase alpha fux like we chase unicorns. But they will hit that wall a lot faster and harder.

              [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

              I took the Red Pill this week. I already read TRP like my bible but, gotta say, I have A LOT of work to do physically, emotionally, spiritually and psychologically. Posts like this reinforce that.

              [–]blackyisthedog 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              As a recent convert, I can tell you that it is a hard pill to swallow. It is a different reality, somehow changes your view and interaction with women, makes you more of a man. Try Monk mode for a while.

              [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Great advice! I've been seeing a lot of people mentioning monk mode as a good way to get into the red pill way of thinking. Definitely a hard pill to swallow. I frequently find myself judging my dad without meaning to, and I feel bad about it because he is a good guy. TRP makes you see differently.

              [–]unseen1unknown 5 points6 points  (1 child)

              I've never understood the "Sit back and enjoy the decline" mentality that I see posted so often.

              Is it a reflection of the way we were brought up? How our parents and grand parents let us down by just giving in to all these concessions to women like No fault divorce, maternity leave from work, gender quotas to fill etc, because hey who gives a fuck anyway?

              I can't remember the name of the book but I remember reading about it somewhere here or maybe at RoK, about how they tried No fault divorces in Soviet Russia in the 1920's and because of the way it fucked up the society over there it was repelled. If anyone knows the name of it I'd greatly appreciate it, but my point is if there was a precedent on what the effects of such a law would have on another country why did the West so blindly allow it? Because of domestic violence? bullshit.

              My ambition is to become fully qualified electrician, I don't know if that counts as "top 20%" but I enjoy working in the construction industry and I like having the knowledge that my future skills would always be in demand. I don't exactly know what top 20% looks like but when I see girls chasing after DJ's, promoters and other night life style careers that I view as pointless I guess it really doesn't matter what your job is to a point.

              [–]ProductivityMonster 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              top 20% refers to a whole host of characteristics concerned with how well you fit the bill for "alpha" (essentially how much control and power you have over yourself and others)... not really related to your income (unless you are extremely rich which translates into extreme amounts of power). Certain careers are alpha because you exert a lot of direct, critical influence over others (ie doctor), but once again its not necessarily about income unless you are extremely rich or poor enough that you can't afford to do the things listed below (ie it costs money to host parties and buy healthy food). See alpha fux/beta bux posts for details about how it's possible to have a high income, but not be alpha.

              Included characteristics are generally partially genetic, but many can be buffered by putting in work...tall, attractive, muscular, tight game, gets things done, commands respect both within and especially outside of work (the nightclub owners/promoters sort of blur this line), leads others, large social circle, interesting life/activities, etc.

              [–]BlueRaspberry 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              This close to just saying "fuck it", writing off women entirely, and blowing my tax refund on a Real Doll.

              [–]RAGING_ERECTION 6 points7 points  (1 child)

              Becoming a provider / BB was a legitimate and successful for option for men... 40 years ago. This was because women needed men for support and cash otherwise they would be living on the street.

              Now that women no longer need men (which have been replaced by the government and even themselves) the provider strategy for men no longer works, is high risk and low reward.

              This is why men are retreating from society. They are conditioned to believe that the provider strategy is the only way to go and when they see that it doesn't work, they give up. This is where MGTOW comes in.

              The ultimate irony is that as more and more men retreat from society, it will collapse. Western society simply cannot function without men running it and contributing taxes.

              The only real strategy for men now is becoming the Alpha Fucks and not committing to, or providing for, any woman. Ever. Because why would you?

              [–]circlhat 7 points8 points  (2 children)

              Beta bucks are still around, and there are a lot more poor people than rich people.

              A large percentage of the USA is on food stamps.

              I only say this because a lot of guys are beta bucks and don't realize they are.

              If you are pulling $50k a year which isn't much to brag about, you are richer than a large percentage of the world.

              [–]2 MRedPillWatchTower[S] 18 points19 points  (1 child)

              It's not how much money you're pulling in that makes you a Beta Bux. It's how much you're doling out and to whom. The poor orbiter who makes $32k/year and blows it on a single mom and her kid(s) is a Beta Bux; the Skittles Man who makes $75k/year? Hardly.

              [–]raiseurT 8 points9 points  (2 children)

              Being Beta (feminine) can help you earn more. They are willing to sacrifice more of their free time, are more submissive, will follow the rules, are eager to please others ect. When education, references, ect. add up they can get themselves in a relatively good position over time. This is the same reason why women are "outpacing" (lol) men in today's economy. But IMO, being alpha will help you earn the "big bucks", real wealth, having balls, thinking outside the box, self interest, being aggressive ect. can also help your earning potential, if you exercise it correctly that is.

              [–]MOCKxTHExCROSS 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              I agree. For entry and mid level workers in the corporate world, Beta is encouraged and rewarded.

              [–]LukesLikeIt 3 points4 points  (1 child)

              This seems like meta population control, the smart "do-ers" of the world will be weened out as they lack the will/time to have children AND careers while the more unintelligent mentally docile folks will reproduce.

              [–]2 MRedPillWatchTower[S,M] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Welcome to Idiocracy.

              [–]speak-zero 3 points4 points  (2 children)

              I just stumbled upon your subreddit and carefully read your post. I don't disagree with any point, necessarily, but I am curious: what is your goal?

              If the sexual selection game has become so unpleasant, why participate? Why be in the 20%?

              Perhaps these are dumb questions. Sorry.

              [–]2 MRedPillWatchTower[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

              If the sexual selection game has become so unpleasant, why participate? Why be in the 20%?

              • The sexual selection game has not become "unpleasant" for sexually desirable men. It has actually become far more pleasant for the game-aware among us. Men who know how to play slutty women and parlay Game knowledge are at a severe advantage over those who don't. The "Game" is only unpleasant for the chumps who followed women's advice of "be yourself!" and "you'll find a girl someday!" and "just be nice and a nice girl will like you!". It's all bullshit. Despite what society and women will tell you to your face, nice guys actually do, in fact, finish last. As in, you'll be the last dick in her when she turns 32, decides she's not hot enough to ride the cock carousel anymore, and refuses to tell you about the 100 dicks she took before "settling" on you to help her finance and take care of the kid she had by Chad Thundercock 5 years ago. People call step-dads "courageous and noble" for taking care of another man's kid(s). I call it cuckolding.

              • You be in the 20% not only because you want to slay pussy; you want to be in the 20% because, as a man, YOU are your own mission, and a woman is not your mission. She is lucky enough to accompany you on your journey to greatness. Educate yourself, become well-read, learn Game, be physically fit, engage in interesting hobbies/interests, and the women will come to you. Make yourself the prize, and take the pussy off the pedestal. If you treat a bitch like she's the "only girl in the world", she'll respond by treating you like you're "just any other man in the world", i.e, easily replaceable.

              [–]magicalbird 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              They are valuable to post wall (over 30 women looking for provider after the decade of fun).

              That's like getting leftovers. Are you cool with leftovers?

              [–]BrunoOh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Depends on whether you're willing to use beta bait game. String them along until they pop the marriage ultimatum.

              [–]LMS_THEORY_ 4 points5 points  (2 children)

              Aren't you forgetting about women not necessarily having high paying jobs even if the government is involved and they participate in higher numbers in college? The high paying STEM fields are highly male skewed.

              True, looks (much more so than game) will be the deciding factor in most sexual dynamics, and top 20% (in looks) men will be highly desired among women. But I propose that the gap between the top half of men and the bottom half will widen due to limited supply of acceptable men

              EDIT: added acceptable

              [–]Redpillc0re 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              limited supply of cock? contrary to the saying , the cock does not fall off easily and a single cock (the male chicken i mean) can satisfy all the hens.

              [–]omglazers 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              The gap between the top half and the bottom half is zero percent at all times.

              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

              [deleted]

                [–]dj10show 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                And so alpha fucks/beta bucks will still exist. You'll just need more bucks to even be part of the beta equation.

                [–]AtticusWarhol 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                You have my vote for the use of schadenfreude

                [–]K1ngcr3w 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                I haven't really cared about being an AF or BB. So I guess you could say I was a BB. But I've been reading TRP for the past few weeks and i can feel myself starting to change my ways.

                My dad is an Alpha, my older brothers are all Alphas, and even my little brother at 16 is starting to get out of his Beta habits. So it's only natural for me to be an Alpha right?

                Up until recently I haven't really given a damn about anything. Sure I'd go out with friends every once and a while and chat up the occasional ladies, but I never really tried to get anywhere. In this past week alone I've registered myself for college; I'm going after my dream of becoming a paramedic. I've also noticed I've gotten back into my hands on attitude.

                So honestly guys, this shit is true. I've had more girls starting up conversations with me than I ever have. And I think it's all due to the way I am starting to carry myself. It feels great.

                [–]el_beso_negro 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                Dude best of luck to you, this is what this sub is all about.

                [–]pl231 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                The whole "more women are earning degrees" thing is kinda worthless in this context , since women are much more likely to get a degree without good job prospects, such as pottery or art appreciation . Id love to see an analysis on degrees earned in fields that are actually employable and the percentages between genders.

                [–]2 MRedPillWatchTower[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                Well, for as often as we mock the stupid liberal arts degrees that women often chase, let''s look at this objectively from a job marketplace point of view:

                • Does a woman with a women's studies degree have the same job prospects as a man with an electrical engineering degree? No way.

                • Does a woman with a women's studies degree have better job prospects than a man with a high school diploma?

                I'd argue she does, because 1) many employers will indeed value any college degree (no matter how worthless) over a HS diploma, and 2) being a woman is an inherent advantage in what I would call "soft industries", i.e. office jobs, clerical, human resources, journalism, etc.

                IMO, a man going to college today is a complete waste of time unless you're going to pursue a technical degree. If a man isn't smart enough to do that, skip the college and the associated debt, and go to a vocational institute and learn a trade. The world will always need plumbers, electricians, mechanics, and HVAC technicians. You'll start off poor as an apprentice working for someone else, but after you are experienced, the income opportunities are great.

                [–]ChaoticReaper 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Make a fake top 20% SMV tinder profile and see the results for yourself. You get 50+ matches within a couple hours, women message you first, women look for any opportunity to insert sex into the conversation. It's true.

                [–]2asd1100 3 points4 points  (5 children)

                So my view of the future is male sex toys, bulls as some marginal part of the kink community calls them and a abundance of betas that will commit just to get a glimpse of real life pussy.

                To be perfectly frank a betas contribution is not only negligible but disposable and replaceable. If you can't be a man you are less than a woman. So yes, if you don't have what it takes or don't want to work to be breeder just save yourself the agony and go MGTOW now.

                [–]2 MRedPillWatchTower[S] 7 points8 points  (4 children)

                To be perfectly frank a betas contribution is not only negligible but disposable and replaceable.

                Eh...gonna slightly disagree with you on their contributions being disposable. I posted this elsewhere in this thread:

                The problem is that today's women have categorically re-classified what is considered "high quality" today. Women have chosen "r-selected" (alpha/reproductive driven) men overwhelmingly, to the detriment of "K-selected" (caretaker/build civilization driven) men. Historically, women have seen "high quality" as a balance somewhere in the middle of the two. This is no longer the case.

                While this may be good in the short term, both for Alpha men and for gina tingles, it will generally have a massive detriment on society as a whole, because the K-selected Betas, who used to be motivated to produce and build society, will just drop their shovels and go home, because they aren't being rewarded with any incentives (pussy/family) to keep up the hard work.

                This is why TRP says "enjoy the decline".

                TL/DR, - Yesterday's balanced alpha/beta men used to have the charisma to get pussy and the moral drive to contribute and build society. Today's purebred betas, left utterly pussy-less, will simply check out, and society will crumble.

                Think John Wayne. He had the balls to get what he wanted in the woman department, but also had a moral compass that a DT/Alpha "get what I want at all costs" guy doesn't generally have.

                [–]2asd1100 12 points13 points  (3 children)

                Historically, women have seen "high quality" as a balance somewhere in the middle of the two.

                false, that is a "help you sleep at night" projection. Women are fundamentally repulsed by the simple idea of being impregnated by weak men. Seriously try it and I guarantee you will not see a more horrified reaction. THe beta settlement is just a compromise of a equal distribution of assets. A worker in the mine was simply a better option for survival than being the 2569th on the sultans sexual menu. Fucking betas is a strictly pragamtic decision in a adverse world(one which modern women don't have to face).

                A good beta will work just for a pat on the head from a woman, we are intrinsically programmed to work for female validations. Also a female's sexual strategy doesn't concern with betas, it most certainly won't sacrifice to get the beta working for the better good. She needs an alpha, someone that produces for him, for his peers and for her, her instincts can't be more indifferent towards the greater good.-

                DT/Alpha "get what I want at all costs" guy doesn't generally have.

                the DTs lacks perspective, you are not competing with them, you are competing with the bosses that use you and milk you for your labor so they can get value and status that gets them laid.

                [–]2 MRedPillWatchTower[S] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

                Great counter-argument. This is the type of stimulating discussion I like to see around here, instead of the 59th post about "hey look at this YT video".

                [–]newlifeasredpill 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                Disconnecting with my innate need for female validation has been a struggle but every day I become more self reliant

                For me..this is the RP

                [–]redpilltom 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                The one thing I'm looking forward to, with women earning more than men, is women getting divorce raped at a crazy high rate. What do you think they will say? What do you think the odds are they will blame the patriarchy and sexism on the high number of women paying 50% of their salary to jobless men?

                [–]zuk1 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                the question is would a rich woman want to marry?

                i can't see roles being reversed where rich 50 year old women are marrying young attractive men :/

                [–]redpilltom 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I still think marriage will be something that is expected of women and that they will feel like failures if they don't get married and have kids. But I guarantee you there will be a lot more prenups, and guys won't be pulling the "How dare you! You think I would do that to you!? What, are you planning on the marriage failing!" emotional trip that women manipulate men with.

                [–]BlackHeart89 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Everyone except for the top tier men will lose here.

                But step up your game my brothers. Don't fret too much. Just make sure you raise your sons to be of the Alpha mentality. Make sure you set a good example. Encourage education and fitness. This is just how the game of life goes. Who the fuck wants to settle for less?

                If you want to catch the best, you have to be the best. Point blank. Don't be upset because an 8 with a masters degree doesn't want to settle with a guy who is a 7 and has at most, a high school diploma, simply because he's nice. Would you, an intelligent man who works out regularly, "settle" for an obese bitch because she's nice to you? Hell nah.

                You have a choice to make. If you didn't have an incentive to get to the top 20% by now gentlemen, I don't know what will give you that drive.

                Whats it gonna be my brothers!