all 176 comments

[–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 161 points162 points  (32 children)

"Make your accomplishments seem effortless" - Robert Greene

Seems that some people, out of projection and insecurity perceive your superiority as "trying hard." Case in point, I've had numerous people on TRP over the years say I'm intentionally wordy. No, not really, it's pretty natural to me. Although you never DENY the accusation (like I just did,) because then you just seem even more try hard and put yourself in an inferior position. You either sound "upset" or like you're justifying yourself. Never justify yourself. Agree and amplify works great "yeah I care too much" said in the most uncaring voice imaginable.

Back to the gym example: that's why being laconic can help mitigate perceptions of trying too hard. To be honest though, I wouldn't give a fuck about what some bitch at the gym thinks. If they called me out on trying too hard I wouldn't care, their perception wouldn't change my "I don't give a fuck" attitude. Like you said, you're at the gym to lift and get your shit done. Who cares what whatever person thinks. If they have an opinion on you and you have no opinion on them, who really gives the most shits? Fuck 'em.

When you're in a situation where people get jealous and that's dangerous for you: show false vulnerability now and again, be humble. Make up a weakness. Mediocre people are jealous people, that's the crab bucket mentality for you. A lot of people go to the gym and half ass it. Their heart ain't in it. That's what separates us from them. That's what makes them jealous. That's why this bullshit exists. People on the grind respect others on the grind. People who ain't worth shit judge everyone who is with empty criticism. If you're jealous of another, that's a sign something's wrong within yourself.

[–]CloakedOrchid 38 points39 points  (5 children)

Good post.

One of Greene's main points about this issue is that, if you give someone a full rundown of what you're doing and how you're doing it, they'll convince themselves that they could do it, "if they really wanted to."

Because, technically, physically, they probably could; but there's no way for them to imagine the willpower and psychological strength that is also necessary, so they will diminish your efforts.

[–]Ultimativity 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Agree. If they meet you or know you as a regular person (a peer) they will have a difficult time accepting your accomplishments, if they learn about them. Since you are a peer, your accomplishments make them aware of their lack of accomplishment.

[–]ProductivityMonster 3 points4 points  (3 children)

I have always struggled with hiding my effort. I've tried to appear like a slacker and hide how much I prepare, but it only lasts for so long when your personality is very much A-type and you do really well at certain things. People get jealous and start tearing me down, keeping me at arm's length, socially excluding me, etc. What should I do?

I understand the principle of hiding your effort to spare people's egos, but it's just hard for me to do so over a long period of time, especially in a competitive, professional (job) environment. Also, I really want to talk about what I've been learning/studying all least I have reddit.

[–]CloakedOrchid 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I'm similar except that I've always been a bit of a bum when it came to work (high school was a breeze, and I preferred slightly lower grades over increased study time in college), so I've always had a model for being a slacker. When I started studying on my own, playing instruments, learning languages, lifting weights, etc., it was already a habit to downplay whatever effort I put in.

With that being said there's nothing stopping you from talking about what you've been learning, as long as you present it well. "Hey, so I was studying [x] today and was thinking blah blah blah and wanted to know what your thoughts were" is crude and contrived; a blunt conversational instrument at best, and even if you only want to have an interesting chat, lots of people will misconstrue your comments as attempting to steer the conversation towards a topic which will let you brag.

I just let conversations take their natural flow, and if I see an opportunity, however faint, to include something I've recently learned/studied, I'll make that connection. "Yeah I remember reading about that at some point..." Sometimes I'll make that kind of comment when I've learned that thing literally hours earlier; how will the other person know?

It's not too hard to give off a vibe of "Huh I guess I just picked up all of this fucking knowledge in passing." As long as you don't specifically mention that you've been studying something, and as long as you don't give too many details about "How do you know that?" (a shoulder shrug will suffice), you'll get the credit and appreciation for knowing something interesting, which is attractive in itself, and also makes for good conversation, without being "that guy" who shows off every chance he gets.

Another point from "48 Laws" (may or may not have been the chapter about seeming effortless) was that if you don't tell people everything you know, you seem to never run out of information/skill, and you give people the impression of knowing more than you really do.

The problem isn't that you're good at stuff, but that you show off. Keep being good at stuff, just keep your mouth shut. People tear you down and exclude you because you're being a pain in the ass, whether or not that's your intention; even if you're contributing interesting knowledge, that can get tedious if it sounds like you're lecturing from your high horse. Do more, talk less.

[–]ProductivityMonster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yea makes sense...I can be more nonchalant and only trickle out useful information. I really hate that it's all about power games and not about the free flow of information (probably why I enjoy talking to guys more, but even many of them are insecure).

I get that you have to wait for the conversation to take a more interesting turn, but there is still a way to steer it in the desired direction without bragging that you learned something. How do you bring up a topic you have been studying without sounding like you are showing off? "Yeah I remember reading about that..." only works if they bring up the topic you happen to be studying or something related (not likely).

[–]Snivellious 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm going to offer a tangential solution: make individuals feel optional. This isn't about seeming low-effort (which you can probably only do with people who don't know you well), it's about getting them on your side regardless.

In short, it comes down to seeming immovable. A-type is impressive when it never stumbles or falters. If you can seem detached from petty problems and circumstances, it becomes an attribute. The guy yelling at you for being 3 hours late with your part of the project is an uptight douche. The guy showing up with his work finished even though you know he got in a car crash last night is a superhero.

People aren't mad because you do a lot (well, they're jealous, but not angry), they're mad because you're doing it with effort, and making them feel bad about their lack of effort. If you can make it seem like you're just constantly succeeding, they don't have to feel bad about not working hard. It's just a big mystery that "he always gets lucky", and everyone has a choice between being on the side of the lucky winner, or being in the corner with the losers.

Don't downplay your achievement, just don't point to work and certificates for validation. You didn't practice 50 hours and win the saxophone contest, you just play a lot because you're so damn good it's fun.

[–]whatisinausername_ 12 points13 points  (4 children)

People who ain't worth shit judge everyone who is with empty criticism.

I'm dealing with this right now. A few of my "friends" and I have fallen out because I'm making progress. Instead of being supportive of that, they are trying to pull me back down.

I saw this blog post on dealing with haters over on /r/Stoicism, and It's a mix of RP and Stoicism I think.

[–]foldpak111 7 points8 points  (1 child)

You have to view them as sub human. Just think about it, instead of living life and having passions, these people just walk around in a Dur state because they have crap diets, leading to brain fog so all they can do is hate on people that are actually living life.

Whenever I encounter these guys I just laugh like a really successful businessman would and go on my way. Don't worry about them attacking you, you're a RP man. You lift heavy. If they try something they might end up hospitalized. You're the man.

[–]whatisinausername_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Pretty much!

[–]MattyAnon 1 point2 points  (1 child)

[–]whatisinausername_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, exactly that. Fuck those crabs!

[–]gqtrees 6 points7 points  (5 children)

i agree with everything except the part where op said "you look weak if you are lifting heavier and doing better form than most"....what the fuck??

i don't go into the gym to talk to girls or check out girls, if they are there, and they look sexy, its mere eyecandy to me, but i carry on with my shit. I don't even like it when my buddy talks too much than lifting or stranger strikes up the convo over random shit i dont care about.

I am in there for one thing and one thing only, to focus on my workout, to go hard and get shit done. I squat the most in my gym..3 plates. Now i don't go to a squat rack unless its leg day and i can do 4 sets of 8 to 10 reps on the rack with that much weight. I am not doing it because i want to show off. I am doing it because when i am not working 9 to 5 or going to the bar i play soccer competitively and I am currently working on my strength and power. 3 plates is not hard for me, its exhausting but not hard. 2 plates easy for where i am at in my progression. When i started i could barely do 25lbs and i am finally here after 2 years. I am doing this for myself, so I don't think its fair to say "don't lift too much because you are trying too hard". My buddy can barely do 35s, and few other people i know in the gym. But i am not out there making them look like shit. I am always the first one to shoot few words of encouragement when they are struggling. no biggie, we all started at first base at some point or another.

The correct wording should have been "don't lift too much if your form is shit. If you form is perfect or near perfect then by all means you should be lifting that heavy". People can see when your form is shit and you are just trying to lift heavy to show off. I can pin point those guys in the gym. But then you can clearly see the guys who come in, headphones locked and lift heavy, but their form is perfect, almost like an artist going at it. Those same guys are the regulars who are just in there to get theirs.

besides that, agree with rest of your comments op.


[–]FuckyouAvast 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I just started working out, where do I learn about form?

[–]gqtrees 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Im sure youtubw has few videos on it. But if i were to give you tips. A) if your are pushing the weight focus on breathing out when pushing breathing in when coming back down. Other way around for pulling. B) when pushing or pulling remember to always go slow when gravity is assisting. C) when pushing heavier weights make sure even when you are struggling you arent twisting your body too much to help out. There should be minimal twist and only the body part you are working out does 99% of the work. I find this helpful in avoiding unwanted injuries i.e hurting your back. Anyways google the workouts you want to do see how the guys do it. If you have any other questions feel free to msg.
Mind you i dont consider myself an expert. But i know enough to direct you in the right path if anything.

[–]FuckyouAvast 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks, I appreciate the response.

[–]foldpak111 3 points4 points  (1 child)

This is why I work out at home. Too many mediocrity out these doors. The insecurity is too real in my presence. I'd like to go push the limits at gold's or something. I know places like that actually prefer you to go to war.

[–]SlayerSBoxxy 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You must watch a lot of dragon ball z.

[–]ohircyou3 2 points3 points  (8 children)

Never justify yourself.

I don't care what anyone else says. This is TRP maxim. NEVER EVER JUSTIFY YOURSELF TO ANYONE. You inevitably hold yourself to a lesser position when you do this.

[–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 19 points20 points  (7 children)

A lot of the time as a man you will instinctually justify yourself as it is logical to back up your point. Men from academic backgrounds were taught to give supporting reasons/evidence for hypothesis/conclusions. And unlike women they let this academic habit become a social one. Women on the other hand rarely ever back up their points beyond "token bullshit reasons." Aka, it superficially sounds like a reason, but logically it is a non sequitur. Usually it's a lie based on whatever they could improvise within that moment. It is rare women put actual thought to their words, which is why they talk so much more than we do. They think before they speak far less than we do (as emotionalism is impulsive) which allows them more words per minute. Women have a propensity to communicate for the sake of communicating (noise) whilst man's propensity is to communicate for a purpose (signal.) Of course women are capable of depth and men are capable of vapidity, my point is simply that men gravitate towards/prefer/are more capable of depth whilst women gravitate towards/prefer/are more capable of vapidity.

I do believe women's lack of logic actually helps them conversationally in terms of power games and Machiavellianism. It doesn't make them superior long-term strategists, but unlike you or I, they don't risk justifying themselves out of logic. They do it out of ego/insecurity when one of your negs connects with a raw nerve (she's gained a few pounds, funny birth mark, pointy tooth etc.) So in terms of the social game, man's weakness is playing by the rules of logic rather than the rules of the game, and women's weakness is an inability to hold frame/take criticism (her ego/emotional self-mastery.)

You can believe you are superior to your opponent, but if you fall for this "logic trap" then you begin losing face/rep/respect/the argument. For the nerds amongst us, no technically you don't lose the argument on a fallacy basis, but for all intent and purpose, perceptively, you have. In "the game" logic will often work against you. If logic rather than deceit/bluffing/social theatrics dominated the game, then women wouldn't be as proficient at the game as they are. The reality is most women are far better at the game than men are.

This is where, despite it's many flaws, ego comes in handy. My logical response is to clarify my point (and hence justify it/support it) however since I developed more ego (as an effect of becoming better at playing the game) my ego will say "no, you don't have to even give them an explanation, they don't care anyway, it's a trap, as soon as you dignify them with reasoning they think you answer to them and that they have won." I can see loaded questions/insincere questions/sabotage questions from a mile away.

Be prudent when people ask you questions, rarely are they ever actually legitimate. People use questions as a way to fuck you over with your own opinions. It allows them to remain formless whilst they get you to take a position (shape.) Whatever you say, they are going to attack because they don't like you/have something to gain from fucking with you. I know to a lot of people, perhaps those new to TRP or somewhat sheltered from the world that this sounds over the top. But it isn't. That's just part of the way people work. It's a common psychological behaviour I've observed across all races/ages/genders/social classes etc. Don't justify yourself. Ever. If you are subordinate in a job that is probably the only exception, and it's probably why so many men, among other reasons, hate the corporate workplace. Because even though justifying is crucial to the job role, it's received just as poorly as when in conventional social situations. Instead of justifying in a work setting you could blame shift, but that means you need a scapegoat. Only women tend to get away with blame shifting.

If the frame shifts so they are practically begging you for the information, or they ask respectfully and demonstrate they actually want to exchange knowledge/opinion rather than just use questions as a tool to socially one-up you/put you down, then feel free to take things at face value. Even if there is an ulterior agenda for asking the question, you won't lose social respect in the moment. I find from people who do not know me, or at least, not very well, I get asked more insincere questions than I do sincere. It's part of how people shit test and instinctually, on some level determine whether "you get it" and if "you're better than them or not." At other times, if you have a reputation they are just heckling. They want to embarrass you. They think they can elevate their rep by outsmarting you verbally. Insincere questions are indicative of low trust behaviour if the context is non-humorous/banter. Generally, as trust increases, the frequency of insincere questions decreases (outside the realm of banter) and questions tend to be more legitimate in nature.

[–]ProductivityMonster 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Can you give some examples/contexts of insincere questions and how people use your answer against you? this is not a test...I really just want to know.

[–]dongpal 7 points8 points  (3 children)

you are at school, it's break time, you sit with 10 people around the table. a lot of different people, but generally "normal".

you ask the biggest nerd "hey bernd, what did you do the whole weekend?". you know exactly what he did and know that it has a bad social reputation to say it ("I played the video games in my whole free time")

you ask him/his opinion, he will mention it and you know beforehand how you can use it against him because of the social stigma

ask yourself : was there are time where someone, who normally doesnt talk to you , would ask you a question where he wasnt alone / in group and you could feel the person already knows the answer? He only asked you to blame yourself in front of other people by giving a true answer. that is another example.

[–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 1 point2 points  (1 child)

This is a pretty good example of an insincere question. I'd like to use it in a more polished write-up, if you don't object. I can come up with alternatives, but I thought this was a simple and easily-relatable one.

[–]dongpal 3 points4 points  (0 children)

sure. english isnt my native language so that was expected ;)

[–]ProductivityMonster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

got it...always be aware of the connotations/implications of what you are saying. Be your own PR person and spin things positively (and even lie to very disingenuous questions).

[–]BlackHeart89 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Jesus fucking christ. This is an excellent post.

I have a bad habit of trying to explain my reasoning behind the things I do. Even so with women I'm dating. Bad move.

Also, I've come to recognize that I'm a slow thinker. But I think much farther in depth than most. I need to learn to shut the fuck up sometimes and not take the bait.

[–]BourneRedPill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Excellent write up.

So, how do you respond and deal with your woman or others when they press on you to justify yourself or keep asking you "why".

I would also like to hear examples of insincere questions and how others manipulate their way into you.

[–]aesthetic-as-fuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Iv'e always thought that lifting weights and being shredded is for you and other men. Women care far less than we do, but they do love muscles if the effort is obscured, like you guys are all saying. And OP's post brings up a good point that I would apply to how you feel about yourself vis-a-vis not being the best in the gym--you actually don't want to be the best.

[–]Endorsed Contributorn0c0ntr0l 235 points236 points  (31 children)

I feel like some of you guys are going to miss the point of this post.

It's not just about the gym and working out.

It's about life.

She doesn't want to hear about how difficult your work is, or how it stresses you out. This isn't attractive. All she wants to know is that you are good at it.

When it comes to women, hide all the hard work you put in to better yourself. It's a waste of time to show them, they won't respect it, worse they'll snort at it.

Simply let them marvel at your achievements and when they ask you how you did it shrug and say it was easy.

Might be a lie, but this is what they find attractive.

[–]2RedPillSafe 34 points35 points  (7 children)


Did you catch this from the post:

"Because if people knew how hard you worked, they’d know that you’re really a loser, trying hard to hide it."

There is something wrong here. One does not have a self identity like this and claim Red Pill awareness. "Going Your Own Way" means you are a winner before the game begins. Once you cross out of "approval based" and into "going your own way" the self identification as a loser ends.

Think of Arnold Schwarzenegger.

He self identifies as a winner. His dominance was because he knew most guys pumping iron had this deep seated loser inside.

[–]pachan 42 points43 points  (4 children)

people will treat you based on their perception. if they perceive you to be a loser they will treat you like one. and you dont want that. which is why you dont show or talk about your effort. you appear to be effortlessly charming/´strong/ intelligent without even trying. thats attractive to people and you reap the benefits by creating an image that is beneficial to you.

[–]17 Endorsed ContributorHumanSockPuppet 43 points44 points  (3 children)

Well said. ♂

The guys in here splitting hairs about /u/Archwinger 's word-choice and trying to find kinks in his frame sound like office women talking about the receptionist's new handbag.

Understand the core message here, which is this:

You are who people think you are.

If your achievements appear effortless, people will think you are super-human and treat you with a measure of reverent awe. That awe and respect has real social benefits which you can use to your advantage.

If you talk about how hard you work, you will either call attention to your deficiencies and invite people to examine your weaknesses further, or you will direct attention to their own comparative laziness and cause them to resent you.

Work hard, keep your mouth shut, and let people believe you're the second-coming of Christ.

[–]KettleMeetPot 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This. This. This. Reading the OP's post most of what I got from it was him bragging about how shit ripped he is and is just running lambs around all the other weak fucks at the gym.

I've often been told 5 minutes into a conversation with random people at parties "You seem really intelligent for not having a degree" or "you have a lot of pride in the way you stand". It's always a compliment. I'm actually really laid back, but even when I'm at my most relaxed, I'm still standing as if I've just won every competition on the planet. How you carry yourself and interact with others (I'm a dick online, I've been trolling since the mid 90's) in person defines who you are more than what you do, mainly because no one watches you at work all day, or all night at the gym, or every time you have sex. People have 5 minutes to deduct their own opinion, regardless of your "accomplishments". Odds are, what you consider accomplishments, someone else thinks is drab.

[–]Upvote Me!trpbot[M] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Confirmed: 1 point awarded to /u/pachan by HumanSockPuppet. [History]

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[–]87GNX -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Bitch doesn't realize purple is so last year.

[–]a_nus 9 points10 points  (0 children)

It's about having people know how hard your work is, without you having to tell them.

The moment you open your mouth to say "hey, look at how hard my work is", you lose. Just focus on your hard work, shut up about it, and if done properly sooner or later people will find out how much of a badass you are on their own.

They'll respect you much more this way than you activrly trying to shove your "awesomeness" down their throat.

[–]harkrank 6 points7 points  (0 children)

You don't understand what he means. From the point of view of women and betas you have to be born with good qualities, "natural talented". They consider having worked hard to achieve something as cheating.

Right or wrong, this is how 100% of young women think and how at least 50% of young men think. There's nothing wrong in being aware of that even if you chose how much value you give it.

[–]garlicextract 8 points9 points  (13 children)

I agree but just to play devil's advocate - applying the OP advice to life as a whole would mean not being the best at work, out of fear of "trying too hard"

[–]Newbosterone 34 points35 points  (3 children)

Never let them see you sweat. If you're trying hard, they (men and women) feel bad that they're not. if you show mastery, obviously you're a natural and it's no reflection on them. Everyone loves a winner. Few,of us are willing to do what it takes to be one.

[–]trpMilo 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Can't be said enough. Sprezzatura.

[–]BlackHeart89 0 points1 point  (1 child)

People are horrible. When I see that someone's results are from hard work and not natural, it motivates me. It makes me realize that I CAN actually achieve the results if I put in the necessary amount of work.

[–]Newbosterone 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As they say in /r/swoleacceptance, to envy is to covet that which I have not earned.

[–]pachan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

actually applying it would mean to give everything at work, go home and not say a single word about it. dont brag, dont tell people how hard you try and how much overtime you do and how much you do for the company and so on.

[–]2RedPillSafe 6 points7 points  (6 children)

Keep in mind the OP is talking about working out at the gym.

If you didn't push 100% in your lifts you will not gain.

It's these stupid women butting in with their narcissistic projections (and Tingles) that are starting to get inside this guys head and making him question himself.

Outside the gym say nothing... but geez... don't alter your workouts just to "look attractive" to women. This is silly. Sweat ! Grunt !

Every male space is getting monitored by the Feminists. Just stop caring.

[–]trpMilo 16 points17 points  (1 child)

This isn't about the gym, and isn't just for women. Also, the point isn't "Don't work hard," the point is "Hide (or at least don't go out of your way to display) your effort."

I studied engineering in a competitive university, and trust me, no one talks in hushed whispers about how smart the kid studying all day in the library and getting As is. No, instead you'll hear people talk about how the guy who is always out partying, sometimes skips class/homework, and gets A-'s must be. They rate his "potential" (i.e. intelligence) as higher. Meanwhile, a lot of these guys are putting this facade on. Many guys naturally understand the Law of Sprezzatura.

EDIT: If you can give off that same "partier/slacker" facade and get A+'s, all the better. You just reached god-tier in the eyes of your peers.

[–]Ek70R 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fuck this shit works, I had a friend at highschool who got to be the best of his class and shit --.-- and when asked how much did he study, he always answered "nah, I didnt even break a sweat, I spent last night playing God of War until 3 am" or "Dont worry bro! dont study that much just relax!" man.. I really wanted to punch that fucking face of his! but hey! he was just giving that proyection of himself, he knew how this all works, and it worked wonders! thanks RedPill Im going to apply this as well, Im always saying how much effort I make to be/learn/make something, I must to stop today!!!!!

[–]pachan 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Outside the gym say nothing... but geez... don't alter your workouts just to "look attractive" to women. This is silly. Sweat ! Grunt !

everybody with half a brain understands that the gym story is just an example. its how he came to his epiphany. it explains an underlying principle: appear successful effortless.

[–]foldpak111 0 points1 point  (1 child)

He's actually pandering to groupthink. Wanna laugh at me for busting my ass in the gym? Go ahead, because I'm laughing right back at you.

[–]ProductivityMonster 4 points5 points  (0 children)

yea but the reality is that it has a huge effect on your perceived status in society, which has a huge effect on how successful you are.

[–]1cover20 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No. It would imply not making a show of working hard. Doing some work when others aren't looking, maybe coming in early and saying you just got there if you're asked. Not complaining at the ups and downs and pressures, just being stable.

[–]Mr_Andry 3 points4 points  (6 children)

This may be a nitpick, but I wouldn't necessarily say it was "easy". I'd say "I decided to do it, then put in the work." That says so much. You're decisive. You've got life figured out. It wasn't given to you, you earned it. Etc.

Keep the shrug, though.

[–]Endorsed Contributorn0c0ntr0l 27 points28 points  (5 children)

No, don't say you put in the work.

That's precisely the point.

They want the fairy tail man who has it all with no work.

Read some romance novels and wonder how it is Mr. Young Billionaire has all the time in the world for poor old plain Jane, whilst at the same time managing a massive corporation, and yet also is completely fit and amazing at all sports by magic etc.

They don't want to hear about the work.

They want to see that you can, they don't want to know the how or even an inkling of a feeling of how, it spoils the mystery and illusion.

[–]Areimanes 2 points3 points  (1 child)

They want the fairy tail man who has it all with no work.

Feminists assume that's how CEOs in the modern world also are.

Never mind the 16 hour work days, being responsible for other people's livelihood as well as your own, the sacrifice you make to your family/friends and your health.

There's no Harvey Specter in the real world. Except maybe Dan Bilzerian, but he's inherited most of his money.

[–]BlackHeart89 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The older I get, the harder it is for me to maintain a respectful opinion of women. I'm not angry. Its just that I'm learning not to give a fuck about how they feel. Smh...

[–]DoJax 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Those types of people piss me off. What terrible choices I have made in my life.

[–]psycho-logical -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Is your entire idea of romance novels based 100% on 50 Shades of Grey?

Women find hard work attractive. It's about context. They don't want a dirty grunt, but something that mixes skill into it (repairing cars) very commonly turns women on.

[–]dickinlips 0 points1 point  (1 child)

But what if your work really is easy and people view it as hard? I actually emphasize the difficulty of my job because otherwise people I'm trying to network with think I'm bullshitting and lazy. I think it's because I'm a minority.

[–]mo_dingo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Work is different than your social life. Don't try to fuck women at work. Managing women at work does require forethought and game, but your end goal is not to get laid.

You are right to make simple tasks seem complicated, especially to your superiors. Keep it up. There's some great posts here regarding managing/interacting with people at Work. Do a search.

[–]2Axotl 35 points36 points  (1 child)

I understand 100% the point of this message; hide your hard work.

Law 30: Make Your Accomplishments Seem Effortless

Your actions must seem natural and executed with ease. All the toil and practice that go into them, and also all the clever tricks, must be concealed. When you act, act effortlessly, as if you could do much more. Avoid the temptation of revealing how hard you work—it only raises questions. Teach no one your tricks or they will be used against you.

For me though, it doesn't apply at the gym. That's the one sole place where I leave my ego and my sexuality at the door. It's just me and the iron and I give it 110% always. However this is just pedantry really, and the message is on point. Don't be a try-hard.

[–]Ek70R -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Exactly!!! thanks for your comment, yea at the gym of my work Im the guy who lifts weights like a beast and lifts more weight than everybody (mainly because everybody there is old or just lazy I dont know)! and Im always grunting, sweating and putting a "mad face" I look like Im trying too hard, but I dont care I really like going through my limits and using all my strenght and, developing it further. However Im gonna se what I can do to make it loook easier and no big deal hadjahjahdjad

[–]tyofwa 19 points20 points  (5 children)

August 22 was my RP-wakeup call for fitness. Those around here know that as the day the "Dont be like Bruce" thread came up. Now 5 months later I'm getting noticed at the office for my physique. On occasion a colleague will ask me "what are you doing?" Initially I would answer with a long diatribe about StrongLifts 5x5 and nutritional changes. Now I simply say "Investing in myself".

Other than the colleagues who are close to me, I don't offer tips / encouragement / advice, etc. Even to the inner circle I hold back. When or if one of them begins to walk the walk Ill gladly provide support and guidance but they have to initiate the first step totally on their own.

[–]Areimanes 11 points12 points  (1 child)

On occasion a colleague will ask me "what are you doing?" Initially I would answer with a long diatribe about StrongLifts 5x5 and nutritional changes. Now I simply say "Investing in myself".

I learned years ago to never go into detail about what you're doing in terms of lifting and eating, unless it's with a fellow gym rat.

People want to hear there's a 'magic trick' you might be willing to share to get in shape.

He doesn't even want to get as 'big' as you - he just wants to tone up, you know?

Once they hear you spend an hour in the gym lifting heavy weights 4-5 times per week and watch what you're eating ("I don't want to use protein shakes, they're bad for your health!"), they've made up their minds that you have 'no life outside the gym' and they don't want to do that to get in shape.

[–]3 Endorsed ContributorRedPope 5 points6 points  (0 children)

People want to hear there's a 'magic trick' you might be willing to share

Yep. Fitness, career, dating, or whatever. For the majority of people, once you explain results require work, they vanish.

[–]trpMilo 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I dropped 20lbs in a few months (always lifted, but started doing cardio and eating much healthier). People asked what I did. I told them I stopped eating peanut butter.

[–]BiggestDickInTheRoom 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I did it with intermittent fasting. I ate every other day, averaging about 1500 calories a day along with some regular lifting and cardio. I found it a particularly easy way to diet, since for me it's easier to go through shourt bouts of discomfort followed by indulgence than it is to go through long bouts of only mild discomfort with not chance to indulge.

When people would ask me what I did, I would tell them at first. This almost universally alienated me. "You did WHAT?!? That's insane!". They wanted me to say "I stopped eating peanut butter" so that they could skip their peanut butter sandwich for lunch and magically lose 20 lbs like I did. As soon as I said I had to work for it I was a freak and "lucky".

So yeah, now when people ask me how I lost the weight, "I ate low carb for a bit". Now they see me as an inspiration because I justify their double bacon cheeseburger. They have no respect for the 2 months I went to bed hungry, but massive respect for being just like them but seeing results.

[–]BlackHeart89 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Duly noted. I'm taking a page from your book. Always say less than necessary...

[–]RedMindBlueEyes 20 points21 points  (0 children)

In other words: If you want to become the strongest guy in any room, work out HARD at the gym, but take a shower afterwards, and shut up about your training once outside the gym. INSIDE - however, even when you ARE the strongest one there, keep pushing yourself beyond your limits. Because that is what you do at the gym. Fuck everything else.

This translates to everything else. Be the one who pushes himself the most, but shut up about it (and "take a shower" afterwards). IF you are in an environment where people obviously have to notice you making an effort, then fuck everything else and go hard in front of everybody.

[–]pachan 14 points15 points  (1 child)

OP never suggested not to give 100% in the gym as to not appear try hard. he simply used his gym experience to explain the underlying principle: that to be attractive you have make your success appear effortless.


[–]t21spectre 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, we understand the gym was an analogy for life in general.

[–]Drogoe 9 points10 points  (1 child)

You put your finger on something crucial about human nature here. We admire the effortless, the "natural", the lack of artifice. (Look up "spezzaturio" for more on this).

Question though: when your girlfriend texts you asking what you're up to, and you're mid-way through work--or even just sitting on your ass browsing the internet--my instinct is to say something that sounds productive, like I'm making shit happen and I'm not a loser just twiddling my thumbs in my free time. Thoughts?

[–]trpMilo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"Helping my boss with excel formulas" "Just led another one of these X meetings - boring" "Got asked to help with X"

You want to be doing things, just generally it should be that what you're doing is either:

1) Easy for you (bc of your knowledge or whatever other advantage you have)


2) Easy for you and something somebody else asked you to help them on. Because you're awesome at it.

[–]thepillwastaken 15 points16 points  (0 children)

It's true. When I was a touring artist, girls never came up to me and said - "wow, you shred so hard" or "I've never seen such clean technique".

They always, always, no matter what area of the globe I was in, said this - "you make it look so easy, like you aren't even trying.".

That always stuck out to me.

[–]bobjoe177 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Lol this - I worked 40-50 hrs a week while in uni full time so I could graduate debt free. I didn't complain about how hard I was working to any women. I had one gf who constantly complained that I didn't make enough time for her. She was attracted to the results I created, not the effort it took to create them. Then when she started uni, she figured she could do what I had done, after a week of working part time in retail ( I had been doing 12 hr days in the bush, commuting 4 hrs a day, and doing homework in a stinky work truck on bumpy logging roads) she would come home crying about the stress, but "if you can do it I can." She had no sympathy for me putting in twice the effort that was driving her to tears after a week.AWALT

[–]MoneyStatusLooks 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Law 30 - Make your Accomplishments Seem Effortless.

48 rules of power -

[–]aazav 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Every advantage you have must appear to come to you naturally or with little or no effort.

This inspires the thought that fortune favors you and that you have some secret sauce.

Why does this matter? Because people think that if they associate themselves with you, they will get some of that or at least be part of that. They want the easy road, they want the unfair advantage. If they think you have that, they will want part of that and gravitate towards you.

[–]i64 5 points6 points  (0 children)

My old man always use to tell me after I scored in hockey not to raise my hands and celebrate. He told me to put my head down and skate to the bench, act like I do this all the time. Dangling their entire team and sniping one top ched is nothing new to me. I don't need to celebrate, I'm just going to do this all over again.

Don't celebrate your goals in sports. You're the fucking champ out there and you do it all the time.

[–]fastball21 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Apparently, lots of women talk to the second or third strongest guy in the room, but kind of make fun of the strongest one.

There's safety in going after mid-pack, less fear of rejection.

[–]through_a_ways 0 points1 point  (3 children)

According to OKCupid, men do this as well. 7s and 8s are more popular than 10s, probably because there's less fear of rejection.

[–]BrunoOh 6 points7 points  (2 children)

No. Men are too pragmatic to deal with 10s. A 7 or an 8 is more likely to put out and has less hypergamic tendencies. 10s are much rarer too.

Hell, I'd rather have a 6 that satisfies me in every way than a 8 who doesn't. Hotness is overrated.

[–]3 Endorsed ContributorRedPope 5 points6 points  (1 child)

TRP is not a limbo contest. Try going OVER the bar for a change.

[–]BrunoOh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Let me rephrase. I'd rather have nothing than an 8 that I don't want to be with. I don't want dead weight in my life. A pretty face isn't enough. 6s are not ugly. They're average. We're not talking about mopeds here. If one of those does everything I desire and more, that raises her value in my eyes. That includes things like going to the gym.

[–]2RedPillSafe 18 points19 points  (12 children)

Approval means you care what people think.

If your goal is a strong workout and that requires you to put everything into it (making you appear too eager) should you care?

Your post shows some underlying uncertainty about your motivations.

Always "go your own way".

Just not care what people think if you sweat or grunt... it's the gym.

This seems to fit into the "male spaces" theme. If the women weren't there to project their narcissism in your direction (a correct observation) there wouldn't be a problem.

[–]pachan 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Just not care what people think if you sweat or grunt... it's the gym.

the point of his post is not that you shouldnt give everything at the gym, the point is that if people see/ know you work hard they will perceive you as try hard and it will look unattractive to them.

its not about the fucking gym

its about the principle he explains using his gym experience as an example of that principle in action.

whats attractive is if you are intelligent/ strong/ charming without trying. so dont talk about how hard you work out at the gym, dont talk about how hard your job is or stressed out you are.

[–]foldpak111 -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

The gym is a place of hard work. If women find me unattractive at the gym, then I guess that's their problem. I'm not there to socialize. When I get in that gym, everyone's a sheep and I'm the lion. Their opinion's are invalid.

[–]pachan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

its not about the fucking gym

its right there in fucking bold. i repeat: ITS NOT ABOUT THE GYM.

and what is about is RIGHT UNDER IT:

its about the principle he explains using his gym experience as an example of that principle in action.

jesus christ, im by no means smart but COME ON.

[–]MeDat 11 points12 points  (4 children)

But it was still well written with some good points to be take away from. Doesn't mean I'm not going to be a tryhard at the gym, though.

[–]2RedPillSafe 5 points6 points  (3 children)

I think there was a very subtle loss of frame here.

The guy absorbed the womens distorted narcissism and began reacting to it. The situation is fairly complex because he didn't originate the distorted viewpoint.

But the answer is to not care.

It's a deep insight though.

[–]md619 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Archwinger noted though that you should work as hard as possible behind the scenes and avoid hitting on girls at the gym anyway.

You're both right. At the gym I'm there to get stronger, and that means being a tryhard and pushing my limits. But I don't expect to hit on women who see me workout anyway. So the gym is "behind the scenes".

When it matters is when I'm at the beach and I whip off my shirt. THAT'S when you make it seem effortless. "Yeah I'm shredded, why wouldn't I be?"

[–]pachan 1 point2 points  (1 child)

look at the headline. it says

hide your effort

not dont put any effort in X.

[–]Half_Natty 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I was just thinking this...

When I'm at the gym, I train as fucking hard and intense as I want! I give zero fucks about what the person next to me thinks. I'm in there to build my temple!

Not to make friends or gain the approval of others.

[–]16 Endorsed ContributorCyralea 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Your image is important. Not recognizing how your behaviours are influencing others is what powerless chumps do.

The advice to forge your own path is only solid because it conveys a positive image -- that you're independent and capable.

Conveying to others that you're validation seeking tarnishes your image.

Law #5: Protect your reputation.

[–][deleted]  (22 children)


    [–][deleted]  (5 children)


      [–]450k_crackparty 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Hard work IS a virtue. It COMMANDS respect.

      This is something I've really begun to grasp recently. I've thought about the workplace bosses I've had that I really respected. They were the ones that worked the hardest in the place. Any boss that got disrespected behind his back (or to his face) was the kind of guy who sits back and watches people work while micromanaging.

      Now that I've been running crews myself, I've applied this. It makes those under you work harder, and no one will ever give you shit when you tell them to do something. It is impossible to disrespect the guy that's working harder than you. Not really related to OP's post (as I think that applies more to people outside the sphere of whatever you're doing) but that line just reminded me of it.

      [–]ProductivityMonster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      it's quite a different dynamic in boss to employee. Lead by example there. You're already in a superior position to your employee, unlike in a peer to peer situation where people feel they are equal with each other so doing something that makes you stand out shatters their perception of the equality and makes them feel below you. They then try to tear you down to make it "equal" or "fair" again.

      [–]Phaint 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      If a ripped dude said that he is already violating several other rules laid out on this forum. You don't blatantly lie about your hard work you just don't bring it up. You also treat people pointing it out like a shit test.

      [–]GregariousWolf 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I'm not sure I agree with your definition of try-hard. I always thought a try hard was a guy who makes sure everyone knows how hard he's working. What the OP is describing is the opposite of a try hard: someone who is doing the work but not crowing about it. The guy who prays loudly in church so everyone knows how pious he is a try hard.

      [–]wattwatty 2 points3 points  (12 children)

      And if anyone is stupid enough to not to respect self-made man [sic] who works hard and is succesful, then I don't really care what this person thinks about anything.

      Well, yes. You shouldn't really care what such a person thinks about anything. The point is that person is a woman. AWALT: they do not respect the work necessary to achieve a result, only how the result reflects on them.

      Be indignant if you wish. On the other hand, if you wish to produce an outcome (i.e. sex), exert at least as much effort to conceal how hard you work at anything as you do actually learning/lifting/whatever.

      [–][deleted]  (10 children)


        [–]wattwatty 4 points5 points  (2 children)

        "Lose interest" [sic] is, of course, too strong. Be somewhat less interested? Abso-fucking-lutely. Every. Damn. Time.

        Success --> fitness. Success via too much work --> obscuring "true" fitness.

        [–]redopill 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        You have no idea what 'sic' means.

        [–]wattwatty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I do. But, you're right: I made the edit in place, and therefore used it incorrectly in the above reply (but, not in the original).

        [–][deleted]  (2 children)


          [–][deleted]  (1 child)


            [–][deleted]  (3 children)


              [–]1cover20 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              They care about tingles. It's not as conscious as face / height / status, but esp. status goes into creating those tingles.

              Perceived status. They're not very good at spotting fakes. That's why they are even spamming this thread telling you not to hide anything. Because faking works, and given a good story, they'll be attracted just in case it's true. They dread missing out on a good man.

              Good as in dominant.

              [–]ProductivityMonster -1 points0 points  (1 child)

              not true unless you're bottom of the barrel're deluding yourself - sparing your ego from the fact that you (and quite frankly most people) have to put in hard work (gym and eating right, meticulous grooming, great clothes/fashion etc.) to look good. Doing all of this will make you 10x more attractive than moping about how you're deficient in an unchangeable category (ie facial structure or height).

              [–]foldpak111 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              If you're trying to get laid, sure. When I'm working out, women are useless. If they talk shut about me trying hard it's like a cockroach is trying to badger me.

              [–]1whatsazipper 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              That's man to man communication.

              Females and generic males require the 'hide your effort' notion. The former because they don't understand it or couldn't care less about it, and the latter because they're intimidated by their own lack of discipline.

              [–]1cover20 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              Arnold didn't say that when he was making his bones.

              Just now that's he's an old man reflecting back on his success, he is willing to teach.

              [–]OakTr3E 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Wow this was actualyl a mini-revelation for me. I probably am the "try-hard" in the gym to some people. It explains a lot of peoples interaction towards me (this is not only done by women, gyms have become so extremely feminized the last 10 years so a lot of the guys/"men" going there might have the same attitude), before they get to know me.

              But anyway, it doesn't matter. I might hit on girls there anyway if I feel like it. I have my priorities straight so no way I am going to work less hard to "seem effortless", lol. Not in this regard! If it´s more difficult because "I am trying hard" well I couldn't care less.

              [–]TekkomanKingz 4 points5 points  (8 children)

              This post reminds me of why many guys just go MGTOW. Females can just be incredibly shallow and dumb.

              [–]Dark triad expert: - - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 27 points28 points  (6 children)

              Females can just be incredibly shallow and dumb.

              Most women are shallow and dumb nowadays. The quality is low. Even women who aren't are hyper judgemental and intolerant of even the slightest imperfection or weakness in a man (in spite of their own vast imperfections/fuckups.) It is characteristic of the female disposition to be callously unforgiving toward men. In a way you or I simply would not be to someone we supposedly care about. Man's love/care is more permeating, less conditional. Women are the most pragmatic lovers, they love strength, and in the absence of strength there is nothing left for them to love. They never "love you for you" they love "what you symbolise."

              Women don't feel sympathy for men beyond moral abstraction (assuming they were taught to value morality/raised to be feminine.) They don't feel "bad for you" in their gut. Anything less than "unattainable perfection" (not possible, she has to hamster it) in a man is just something for a woman to hate or mock. Blah blah blah, evolution dependent on men being good hunters, survival of the fittest blah blah. Being around women is like being in the presence of perfectionists who feel like they have an inherent right to judge you on your worthiness as a man. Nothing you do will ever be fucking enough for them. Women are eternally dissatisfied, complaining, insecure. Very few women are exception to this. The most pleasant of women I do believe have similar instincts, they are just VERY GOOD at projecting a character which seems counter to this. They "don't want to be mean" they are good-hearted even, but they have the same instincts. Shit, if they're young and dumb enough they don't even realise how harsh they are on men, it's instinct to them.

              Women aren't just "not what we thought they were" they are flawed to a point of frustration. You have to become women-centric and hamster a bit to yourself to actually truly "love and appreciate" women. Many men do this, because they don't want to live in a world where they can't love or appreciate women. They value women, irrationally and instinctually to that extent. How can something so outwardly beautiful be so inwardly abhorrent?

              Shit test after shit test is common with women. Women shit test on the sly in ways most men don't even notice. They don't understand the language of women: subtextually testing for dominance. Too many slip ups and you're done. When you realise all this shit you can see why things were set up in a way that gave men more power in society. It was necessary to balance out society so a large quantity of men were viable/useful/compatible with female nature. Without that paradigm (like we have now,) you become the top 20% or you MGTOW. There are no other viable options.

              If most men realised this shit, they wouldn't bother with women. The effort is a lot, the reward, minimal. When you work hard as fuck to be the best and the average woman is so inferior, the whole point can seem fucking moot. That's why we say "do self-improvement for yourself, not for women." Yes you will get laid, but becoming better than women only makes them seem even less in your eyes. And ironically the whole time, they'll behave like they have a right to someone so much more superior than they - whilst denying your superiority should you ever be dumb enough to get onto that topic with them.

              Obviously not EVERYBODY can be in the top 20%, if everyone knew about TRP, reaching that place would just become harder, the bar would be higher and women wouldn't change a bit. They'd just get pickier as the collective value of men improved. You'd have fatties fucking ripped guys as a commonality. It's actually fucking obscene. You know despite all that shit though I like being a man. I wouldn't wanna be a woman. I like having muscles and being clear-headed most of the time. Women are needy and parasitic and tend to lack personality. I'd hate to be like that. They are what they are, and when you realise that "the prize crumbles."

              Society/men have to pedestalise the shit out of women because when you realise what women are really like, they are difficult, nigh impossible to love. Reality is a cruel bitch.

              [–]BrunoOh 7 points8 points  (1 child)

              If most men realised this shit, they wouldn't bother with women.

              Swallowing the pill has destroyed the magic for me. If a woman makes it sufficiently low effort for me I'll go along. I'm not going to do anything to "convince" one to date me, other than improving myself for myself. They gain much more from a relationship than the man does anyways.

              [–]ProductivityMonster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              yea it's really not worth it...if she likes you off the bat, then so be it. Otherwise, there's a thousand others once you pass that 20% (or whatever it actually is) threshold.

              [–]foldpak111 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              This is why I love mainstream indoctrinating men to be feminine and crucify RP. I just completed my second week of college and holy hell, getting to the top 20% is almost a joke.

              [–]through_a_ways 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Women are pragmatic because it was impossible for them to evolve in a way that would have enabled them to feel "instinctual love"

              Males desiring females = more reproductive success. Females desiring males = no change in reproductive success.

              So basically the most horny males begat the most children, making males progressively hornier. There was probably some sort of protector instinct in there as well, making the men who were most protective of their women the most successful as well (since other men wouldn't cuckold them)

              Now I also think that those traits get partially passed on to female offspring as well. Male offspring will inherit their fathers' sexual desire and sexual protectiveness for females. BUT, female offspring will inherit some of it as well, assuming it's polygenic and not all on the Y chromosome.

              [–]TekkomanKingz 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              This message has made me think instead of spreading RP we should guard it with our lives... I would never want to see a reality where fatties fucking ripped guys (who spent hours in the gym improving their physique) is common place.

              [–]BrunoOh 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Don't worry. Most men will back off when they realize they actually need to put in work to be attractive.

              [–]1n33d4d0774r 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Great post and definitely applies to life in general and not just the gym. It's like if you're rich not many people want to hear about how you got to where you are, they want to hear about what cool things you've done with your life and places you've visited etc.

              I think also that the average people who see the guy trying really hard to be successful want them to fail because it makes them uncomfortable knowing they don't have what it takes to put that work into improving their life or something.

              It's like without really speaking up about it people wanna buy into some bullshit about how that guy is rich cause he got lucky and invested in some company at the right time, or that guy is ripped cause of his genes and he just got dealt a better starting hand in life or something.

              [–]stemgang 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              "Women are, and men become.

              So she is not going to understand the hard work you had to put in to become the man you are today.

              All she had to do was show up and look pretty.

              [–]scholarly_pimp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              I actually really like this and it's motivating for me to stop talking about what I plan on doing and start actually doing it

              Thanks, brother!

              Keep dominating, man.

              [–]2 Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              I had a girl ask me if my next thing was to walk on water. I had sent her a pic of the car I'm building, yesterday it was bare metal then primer, today it's freshly painted black. She has no idea of the work involved, she only knows it's a lot and she can't do it. This chick has a serious car fetish, otherwise I wouldn't let her know what I do. It is effortless for me, and I downplay what I actually do.

              Her shit tests were epic, now they are like slow pitch softball, because I established frame right off, am cocky and incredibly over confident, I don't put up with shit, and I pass her shit tests easily. Making 12 hours of work seem effortless solidifies my position. I might brag to you miscreants, but not to any bitch, they gotta work to find out what I do.

              [–]mauripj 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              I see this principle every day. I'm currently in law school right now and the common conception is that if you're not stressing out and pulling your hair out, you're not doing it right.

              Me on the other hand, I get up early, get a lot of my school work done early in the morning, and I have my nights completely free. However, a lot of people aren't getting up at 5:30 to get to the library first thing in the morning so no one sees me going in. Yet when people hear I have free time at night to go grab a drink or see a movie or just hang out, people are flabbergasted.

              People just think I'm dominating all the time, but with little to no effort. It's gotten to the point where people want to know "my secret". There is no secret. I have a strict routine and schedule where I'm constantly improving. No one sees it though, and thus people think I do it with little to no effort.

              I believe that this principle just proves that when you want success, you go after it in the darkness when no one is looking. Everyone wants to pat you on the back when you succeed, or conversely say behind your back that "you were lucky". No one sees the hours and days you put in when no one is looking. That's how winning is done.

              [–]Snivellious 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Holy shit, thank you for explaining an experience I had recently.

              A girl I know started giving me shit because "you read". Joking, but with a real edge behind it. She's a college-educated scientist, so this isn't an anti-intellectual thing. What absolutely baffled me was that she's constantly impressed by how much I know, and praising the fact that I'm so well-informed.

              My first reaction was to mock her and say "How the fuck do you think I know so much? Of course I read." I didn't of course, but I didn't really understand until this instant.

              The fact that I read is weak, the fact that I have read is awesome. Work is weak, achievement is awesome.

              [–]Geleemann 2 points3 points  (2 children)

              ...Orrrr you could just not give a fuck what women/people think of you at the gym. You're there to make progress, correct? Stop being a fucking pussy and focus on your own workout and not what anybody else is doing

              [–]loknarash 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              I never thought he's a pussy, but your point is correct, Geleemann. Archwinger, you usually post quality TRP deliberations and earn easy upvotes from me, but this post of yours is egotistical nonsense. If you really swallowed the red pill, you could not give less of a fuck what anyone in the gym thinks. You have nothing to hide, and you do not have time to even consider their opinion, because the people that matter either respect or do not give a fuck about all your effort.

              Because if people knew how hard you worked, they’d know that you’re really a loser, trying hard to hide it.

              Your point here is a blue pill example, and in return I am giving you a friendly bitch slap with a hand covered in red pill sprinkles.

              [–]lvl4crazy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Archwinger is speaking from the female limbic perspective. When it comes to dealings with women, perception is reality. Women are drawn to aloofness in men, as it is a signal of dominance. Remember that women are looking for good genes. Lifting overly hard at the gym is trying to cover up shitty non muscular genes (aka overcompensating for a micro penis).

              [–]chainlinks 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              This guy is overtly insecure. All but the last paragraph were completely unnecessary.

              [–]AnalLeak 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              I agree about your point completely. These women see just how hard you're working and see the struggle and effort put forth. That shit isn't sexy. I guarantee if you went to another gym, did some light lidts, you would get far more looks. I have actually seen this many times myself with a couple other people. It's not just women too... it can be men who can be mirin about how effortless your exercise is and how good you may look.

              Also, you lose total frame when hulking out. Nobody wants to talk to an insane person.

              [–]maouthse 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              it's not about making it look effortless, it is about putting the effort and not having to brag or discuss it at length.

              [–][deleted]  (3 children)


                [–]1cover20 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                Sorry woman, we don't believe you.

                [–]_the_shape_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                The parallel I'd make here is something similar to bringing up your line of work in a boastful way on, say, a first date or a cold approach, especially without her digging for it. I don't see any pressing need to go out of your way to hide the amount of effort you put in behind the scenes though. If anything, discovering this will demonstrate just how dedicated you are to yourself, how much you value yourself, how much you respect yourself. If she (or anyone for that matter) stumbles upon it, no big deal, but don't walk around talking about how you put in 10-14 hours days to master your craft - that screams of insecurity.

                [–]Goldfulgore 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Good post.

                However, never sacrifice your greatness for a woman. I learned that a while ago. You still have fear in regards to what women think about you.

                Learn to be ok by being perceived as a loser by women.

                I thought you said that being rejected is our job.

                [–]elevul 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                You can never do too many squats.

                [–]Lt_Muffintoes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                The corollary being, surely, that if a woman finds you attractive when you are working your hardest, she has some positive attributes which the majority do not?

                I read something about humility. I don't think it contradicts your post, but it does add another aspect.


                [–]aitchfourex -1 points0 points  (6 children)

                All OP did was let everyone know that he doesn't take his training seriously

                [–]TenserTensor 5 points6 points  (5 children)

                All you're doing is letting everybody know you completely missed the point.

                [–][deleted]  (4 children)


                  [–]pachan 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                  still not getting it. a hint: his point is NOT to not give 100%...

                  [–]aitchfourex 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I get his point. You want an effective way to convey it? Hint: it involves not using context that works against his point.

                  [–]1Modified_Hackware -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

                  He said occasionally in a class. Why can't you people read? The didactic message has nothing to do with working out. Less posting more reading the sidebar.

                  [–]RAGING_ERECTION -1 points0 points  (2 children)

                  If you're "trying not to look like you're working hard" that ultimately means you care what people think of you, because you're trying to hide the fact that you're working hard.

                  I don't give a shit what some attention seeking gym slut thinks of me.

                  [–]aazav 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Don't try to not look like you're working hard, just look like you're not working hard.

                  That's the point. Minimal visible effort.

                  [–]esco_ -1 points0 points  (3 children)

                  "women completely lack empathy"

                  umm... no. That is not true.

                  Besides the fact that women dominate the "caring" professions - nursing, social work, counselling, women have been the nurturing gender since forever.

                  There is a reason children tend to flock to their mother when hurt rather than their father. Women tend to display a lot more empathy than men

                  [–]ProductivityMonster -1 points0 points  (2 children)

                  Whoosh! I guess you just have to understand the context of the statement. The point is women lack empathy for men who are trying to attract them.

                  [–]esco_ -1 points0 points  (1 child)

                  right. Don't pretend the context went over my head, your writing was poor if that is what you intended the statement to mean

                  "women completely lack empathy or the ability to place themselves in another’s shoes"

                  if you changed the end of the sentence to what you wrote above i would have no issue with it.

                  [–]17 Endorsed ContributorArchwinger[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Your interpretation was correct. My statement was that women completely lack empathy. Maybe some have a little bit for their children.

                  There's a huge gap between getting your master's in social work and actually identifying with another human's feelings.

                  [–]revofire[🍰] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                  I think that working hard makes you a winner. I don't give two shits what others think of me if I'm kicking ass and working hard to achieve something higher than anyone can imagine. Because at the end of the day I'll have the prize, I'll be on top. You may have thought me a try-hard on the way there, but now I'm there and I don't give two shits about you if you don't like me, someone else will like me, and I will like her back.

                  [–]foldpak111 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                  7 billion people live in this world. I work hard and do not hide it. In the grand scheme of things, I'll be unattractive to thousands now, but be attractive to millions later.

                  [–]revofire[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  You're on point. Look to the future and keep going. But enjoy the present. Find people and things to enjoy in the present on your way up.

                  [–]monsieurhire2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  It's so pathetically sad how delusional so many people are. It doesn't matter if you have innate talent; you still have to work to develop that talent.

                  [–]mickeysf -5 points-4 points  (5 children)

                  1nice ten paragraph humblebrag about how strong you think you are. The irony is how easily we can see how hard you are trying!

                  [–]17 Endorsed ContributorArchwinger[S] 5 points6 points  (4 children)

                  Dude, my internert upvotes and positive comments totally outnumber you.

                  That means I'm smart and important in the real world.

                  You're just jealous. You're probably a virgin beta neckbeard living in mom's basement. Unlike me, who is cool.

                  [–]mickeysf -1 points0 points  (3 children)

                  Interesting reply. Well played.

                  [–]17 Endorsed ContributorArchwinger[S] 8 points9 points  (2 children)

                  I disagreed and amplified your shit test. Now you want to fuck me.

                  [–]mickeysf -1 points0 points  (1 child)

                  Oh I thought you were kidding. I didn't realize you really believed your own crap. I take it all back. If by shit test i call your stupid self congratulatory remarks to attention. Anout all the bars you handle? What's that crap

                  [–]foldpak111 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                  As a hyper competitive person, I see the big picture and I do not pander to mainstream groupthink people. I work really hard and I'm not afraid to throw it in everyone's face. Wanna laugh? Go ahead because I'm laughing right back at you.

                  [–]swallowpls -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                  very overrated post.

                  but the fact that i'm finally starting to dissent (minorly) from these posts makes me realize how far I've come on the red pill journey.

                  [–]laverns -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                  "Women completely lack empathy" haha wtf

                  [–]Genghis-Brah -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                  I kind of disagree, I'm going to work hard. I don't give a fuck if some fuck boy thinks I'm being a try hard. That's what losers say after they lose a game of basketball pickup. There excuse was that you're trying to hard.

                  [–]1TheReason13 -5 points-4 points  (7 children)

                  I agree with RedPillSafe on this one, 100 percent. this post deeply disappoints me. I don't see why you're so concerned about what these women think of the hard work you put in, their opinion should not matter.

                  So they hit on the third strongest guy and make fun of the phenom, that's no concern of yours. Let them mock, your mind should be focused on achieving what you're there to achieve, not whether they approve of it or not.

                  [–]17 Endorsed ContributorArchwinger[S] 13 points14 points  (4 children)

                  I probably muddied the theory by tying it together with an anecdote I found interesting. I do that sometimes.

                  [–]2Axotl 11 points12 points  (0 children)

                  Not your fault people can't see the forest for the trees.

                  [–]17 Endorsed ContributorHumanSockPuppet 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                  You made a perfectly valid observation that connects to a foundational Red Pill truth and Law of Power.

                  If the only complaint people have is "Wow, ArchWinger's frame looks weak", then they're focusing too much on frame themselves, which means they're overly concerned with how THEY look. Pot, meet kettle.

                  If we all had perfect frame, then we'd be partly-psychopathic Tom Cruise knock-offs and we'd never have come to this place to begin with.

                  [–]pachan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                  i wouldnt describe myself as smart compared to actuallly intelligent people. but some of the people here... jesus christ. its realy not that hard to get what you are saying and understand that the whole hym story is just a tool to explain something.

                  [–]machimus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  That's ok, it teaches people to read for details and think critically.

                  [–]UntraceableRP 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  His anecdote provided an illustrative example of the theory at play. To interpret the post as a reason to not try the hardest at the gym is a misinterpretation, in my opinion. I think it should be clear that we need to pick our battles and the gym is not a place to worry about sexual dynamics. I can easily see how the post is being received in this light, however.

                  [–]pachan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  appearing succesfful without even trying is attractive. THATS his point. everything he said simply explains why and how he came to that conclusion.

                  if you tell somebody how you got so ripped, it loses its magic. if people dont know how you do it and it appears to be so easy for you they will admire you more than if you show them how you are successful.