top 200 commentsshow all 320

[–]UrsusG 83 points84 points  (32 children)

Another thing they do when they don't feel like lying to your face is to say the truth, but very selectively. That way they feel like they're telling it to you like it is (just not the whole thing). It's like trickle truth, but without the trickle.

And if this selective half-truth completely distorts your understanding of the issue at hand, then that's no longer their problem, because technically, she had told you the truth, but you misunderstood it.

There's an applicable saying in my native language: 'a half-truth is a complete lie'

[–]Amorevolous 68 points69 points  (4 children)

"He's just a friend."

Which probably mean something more like:

"He's just a friend who has been trying to fuck me for years but I keep him around just in case."

[–]gensyms 29 points30 points  (2 children)

The word "just" is the red flag. Or more accurately, a red flag with an even redder flag embroidered on it.

[–]DaegobahDan 23 points24 points  (0 children)

More like "He's a 'friend' that other women seem to think is hot but he doesn't give me the tingles but I still get validation from it and maaaaaybe if I was really drunk/lonely/bored."

[–]tatertotmonkey 17 points18 points  (5 children)

My ex-wife was like this. I had to take everything she said with a huge grain of salt. Also, if I asked her to do something, I had to be extremely specific in my wording, so she didn't have a way to misinterpret me.

[–]fatw 31 points32 points  (1 child)

just the thought of that is frustrating

[–]Charrington84 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Remember sidebar material: she's the most responsible teenager in the house, but we can all remember what being a teen was like.

[–]DonArturo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I've always thought this was one reason the film Bedazzled worked as well as it did: if the Devil is a woman (in this case, played by the sizzling hot Elizabeth Hurley), be extra careful signing in blood on that dotted line.

[–]RedPillJohnny 13 points14 points  (2 children)

a half-truth is a complete lie'

A complete lie is actually less damaging than a half truth...when told that the sky is green I can look up and say no it is not it is blue...but a half truth panders to your "understanding and perspective" and lets you fill in the gaps with whatever reasons you can come up with...what is the applicable saying and what native language are you translating it from...I am curious?

[–]hekatomba2 6 points7 points  (1 child)

"A half-truth is a whole lie” is a popular proverb that’s been directed at newspapers and politicians since at least the 1880s and 1890s. “This half truth is tantamount to a whole lie” was cited in print in 1873. “It is often said, you know, that a half truth may be made ‘to do duty’ as a whole lie” was cited in print in 1878 and said by Rev. Dr. Edwin Harwood of New Haven, CT. “We have the authority of a noted clergyman for saying that ‘a half truth is a whole lie’” was cited in print in 1886, but it’s not known who the “noted clergyman” was.

“"A half truth is generally more dangerous than a whole lie” was described in July 1858 as “the witty saying of a wise German.” Since at least 1947, “"a half-truth is a whole lie” has been described as a Yiddish proverb. The syndicated columnist “Ann Landers” (Eppie Lederer, 1918-2002) explained in 1978, “I can translate that Yiddish phrase without help: ‘A halber emez iz a gantzer leegen’ means ‘a half truth is a whole lie.’”

[–]Dark triad expert: - http://illimitablemen.com/ - [3 Points]IllimitableMan 38 points39 points  (10 children)

A woman's word is worth half of a man's precisely because of this fundamental difference in character.

[–]TheThingsIThink 16 points17 points  (1 child)

half? you are giving a lot of credit here man....

[–]ColdEiric 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Half, as in when you're asking both a man and a woman, listen to the man.

[–]_the_shape_ 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Which is why you never hear anyone say "she's a woman of her word". Try saying it. It even feels like you're mispronouncing something.

[–]JACKDOGBOB 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Lol suprisingly thats actually how Islam deals with a woman's word in a court of law.

[–]theshadowonthewall 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A woman's word is worth half of a man's precisely because of this fundamental difference in character.

Under Saxon law, my word is worth 4 times as much as your word. Only a Warrior was classified as a man, so someone with military service.

To prevent false accusations, the person making the accusation would be allowed to challenge a warrior to a duel if his statement could not be proven.

[–]HardBounce 1 point2 points  (2 children)

a half-truth is a complete lie

What is your native language and how would you say this?

[–]UrsusG 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's Polish

Pół prawdy to całe kłamstwo.

As quoted above, the saying itself is not of Polish origin, and I wouldn't presume it to be, since it's a universal truth.

[–]timcogyr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

AKA - a lie of omission, where selective parts are left out to manipulate the desired outcome. This is different from the blatant lie but is just as deceitful bc it still doesn't allow the other person to make an informed decision based on facts. Now, everyone lies, but I agree some people do it to the point of compulsiveness. IMO, this is a learned trait, my ex learned it from her mom, as an example, that it's ok to lie to their husbands bc they've already decided on their own "what he can handle". Now, not all women are like this so be careful not to label but definitely use these indicators as a red flag, make sure to trust your gut, and know when it's best to walk away.

[–]ExNihil 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I'm curious--what is your native language?

[–]fortifiedoranges 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He replied to another poster that it was Polish, but the phrase itself is older.

[–]box_wrench 91 points92 points  (47 children)

My ex wife denied her affair when i had incontrovertible proof and witnesses present.

She denied and denied, and grudgingly admitted to it a few days later.

Her first go to was to lie and her brain couldn't tell her that lying with all that proof just makes you look bad.

[–]gensyms 76 points77 points  (10 children)

My ex wife denied her affair when i had incontrovertible proof and witnesses present.

I literally walked in on my ex-wife fucking one of my "friends". To this day, nearly three decades later, she still denies it.

[–]box_wrench 58 points59 points  (8 children)

There is some funny shit about being part of "divorced guys club" and hearing these outlandish stories. Makes me laugh. Its just amusing in the same way a bunch of guys get together and share scar stories.

Sometimes I get a little bent out of shape on how we don't tell the blue-pillers how shit is, but I caught myself doing this very thing last night. Here's the story.


I know a guy, right now, whose wife is abroad on academic research. She just lost a bunch of weight and is looking "good" (for her). She also got accepted to medical school. Double doctorate kind of thing with real job prospects.

Meanwhile, he is struggling and is working shitty adjunct jobs. Prospects are poor for him. Hes working a bunch of extra shitty jobs to pay for her end while shes abroad, and its really killing his ability to advance professionally. Hes looking like shit from the stress and its stringing him out.

Anyone here want to take a bet that her newer slimmer, going to be a MD self doesn't bigger better deal him after hes served his purpose of handling her stuff and cats? Anyone?

He doesn't see it coming and there's no real way to tell him whats going to happen.

[–]BooksofMagic 18 points19 points  (1 child)

'You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink"

You have to wait for him to want the information before he will listen to anything you tell him.

[–]3 Endorsed ContributorSkorchZang 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The classy way to go would be to type up an "anonymous letter" to him, labelled with the explicit instruction to only open it in 1 year.

Contents: a dispassionate explanation what's going to happen and why. Best wishes.

He's going to wonder what is this shit all about, and will probably read it before the "due date", and this small criminal act helps him to feel like he'd grabbed God by the balls just in time to change his fate. He'd be inclined to think about the information more seriously, because he already willingly transgressed against the rules to get it - as if he's coming to know what he was not supposed to know.

[–]TattedGuyser 4 points5 points  (0 children)

If he gets smart, he can get some sweet alimony money out of that deal. Maybe that's his end game? You never know, it'd certainly be mine.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (29 children)

How does one get over such thing? I dumped my Ex because she cheated and even though a month has passed, I fall into the simple trap on checking on her here and there for no valid reason and it still stinks to think what she did.

[–]box_wrench 117 points118 points  (7 children)

The advice is really easy. Implementing it is hard.

Focus on what you can control and set aside shit you can't.

What you can control

What you can control What you cannot control
Lifting Women fucking other guys
Diet What other people eat
Career That bitch/jerk over there
Rest Who your Ex is fucking
Hobbies Other shit

You want to be happy? Focus on what you can control. TRP is giving you a roadmap on how to do that.

Heres the hard part - Go do it.

It becomes easier. it becomes a habit. You will be happier.

[–]Scotty_McLovin 37 points38 points  (1 child)

The most practical philosophy of them all, Stoicism.

"Ask yourself: Does this appearance (of events) concern the things that are within my own control or those that are not? If it concerns anything outside your control, train yourself not to worry about it." - Epictetus

[–]Ojisan1 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Great chart.

I've been on the self-improvement train for a year and I only now am starting to feel like I get it. And I am by no means claiming to be anything close to an expert. I just now feel in my bones the truth of what I have been reading here (and elsewhere, sidebar material, etc).

Understanding this stuff on an intellectual level is relatively easy once you take off the blue pill glasses, but that's only the first step.

Understanding this stuff on a visceral level, where you actually believe it down to your core, in your gut and in your balls, where it is not just an idea but it is part of your essential being, that's not easy - that takes time and effort, and a persistent faith that you are being true to yourself and your nature (what both the Black and Beige Phillips would call "righteous".)

[–]ITHOUGHTYOUMENTWEAST 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Damn. All guys should understand this. You have a few things in life that you have power over them, so fucking take control of those things. No excuses.

[–]LewisSkolnick 10 points11 points  (4 children)

Whatever online social network you and her both share - leave it entirely.

I never bought into the tagline of Facebook "connecting us all" until the day I dumped it, and soon after got over my ex girlfriend succesfully. Being on Facebook with someone is kind of like being in the same room with them, but 24/7. The problem with that is that after a bad breakup, you need the equation of space*time for your wounds to heal. Give yourself that opportunity to heal by abandoning whatever online social network you and her both share.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I have used facebook somewhat reactively to rub it in her face. I know it shouldn't be that way, but that's how I'm dealing with it right now. Many say she wasn't worth it anyways, all the people that knew us both told me I was out of her league anyways and even her sister helped me out finding out what was wrong.

[–]raven2000 8 points9 points  (1 child)

A month? Dude... you're still very new at this. It's still fresh. Give it time. Focus on you and things improve.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Totally agree it's the first time that this fucked with me, normally after a relationship was over I went overdrive on inproving myself to the point of making huge progress and forgetting her rather fast, now it seems different but hell it won't take me down!

[–]scamper_22 7 points8 points  (12 children)

Crazy can make you crazy.

A while back I dated what I've come to know as a BPD girl (borderline personality). It was a girl I knew passively from school. Anyways, the summer was up and I ended it with her. Then she just went nuts.

And that made me a little nuts trying to get her to not be crazy. I didn't want her back, but she was doing some really messed up stuff and as I knew her from school, I just wanted her to act normal. We had common friends and they were concerned as well. She literally ran away to a small town with a screwed up white trash guy and lord knows what else.

I think it is the part that their actions don't make sense and you try and make it make sense in your head. It drives you crazy.

I recall at one point just trying to call her repeatedly and she wouldn't pick up. That fcked my mind for a bit. I still recall my mind state. It has never happened since nor will it ever again.

Best thing to do is anything else. Go cold turkey on facebook if you have... just stop that ocd loop of checking up onher.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (11 children)

This is so much me! I forced myself to understand why she would cheat on me, disrespecting my parents, friends and even herself. She was so morally high "I'll never forgive my mother for what she has done to my father. Him suffering was the worse I had to witness in my life" or when she was talking to her younger sister "How could your BF cheat on you, that's not even remotely acceptable, you shouldn't take him back, he did the worse he could do, he is worthless". And bam, she cheated on me, what the hell?

[–]lolwat_is_dis 7 points8 points  (3 children)

A wise man once said...

Sloots gonna sloot.

[–]JACKDOGBOB 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Is there a difference between a slut and a "sloot" do you think?

[–]raven2000 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Every story the same. Every one.

My ex did the same. She would go on and on about her hatred towards her crazy family. Now she has become one of them to a T.

[–]TattedGuyser 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah we can pretty much start a club and almost every man whose been in a relationship could join. My ex was the same way. She was on some holy high ground, hates cheaters. Still does apparently.. as she cheats on her boyfriend weekly. But she's not a cheater guys.. because.. reasons!

[–]scamper_22 0 points1 point  (4 children)

yeop lol.

I now detect my brain going that way and I stop myself right there. But I had to go through it I suppose. It was just mind blowing dealing with a literal crazy person in a complete distortion of reality.

Granted, your ex might not be crazy to that level, but it still makes no sense to you.

You just have to accept that all women are like that just to lesser degrees. They won't make sense to your mind. You cannot be in their head. You can only see what they do and act accordingly.

I know exactly what you mean when you claim she says all this stuff about how cheating would be absolute worst... but then she cheats and you were not a horrible person. So what the hell right?

But this great contradiction isn't even really true only of woman. Men are pretty guilty of this as well. But women might do it more and feel righteous in doing it.

But in the end, like I said, this shouldn't make a difference. Just women... and all people... by their actions; not their words.

In this case, she cheated on you. What else do you want to do with her... the answer should be nothing. I fcked up like you did, so that's my only tidbit.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I just find it unfair that we have to label ourselves and the ones that fucked up. I won't accept that, we all know who fucked up, it's the person that can't hold to the compromise that was at hand when both willingly decided to have a LTR.

In my case she fucked up big times. If she wasn't feeling it, the only right she had was to end the relationship, nothing more.

What I would want for her for now at least? That she would come crawling back telling me that she was sorry so I could dump her ass a second time. She was already humiliated enough by her dad when he found out, calling her worst then her mother.

[–]scamper_22 0 points1 point  (1 child)

oh I hope you didn't take it as you fucked as her cheating. No I meant, your reaction to her cheating as in trying to checkup on her is fcking up or perhaps not detecting things earlier.

Her cheating... totally her fckup. Your reaction to it... fckup. Your ability to read people before hand... needs work.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My suspicions was spot on and it sucks doubly so because I was one day late at getting the evidence.

Live and learn.

[–]Nyctor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's about being able to take all that anxious energy you have and put into something constructive. Start running a few miles a day, lift, go to a state you've never been to. It's like any other negative life event like death or losing a job. Take time for you and enjoy your new freedom and do something constructive with it.

[–]I_like_big_titays 14 points15 points  (3 children)

similar situation. When I told her that not only do I know, but that I know specifics from someone she knows, it was not "sorry" but "who fucking told you". She went ballistic naming all the people who knew and why they were full of shit, or whatever trickle truth she felt comfortable giving that COULD have been twisted by an enemy of hers who just wanted to meddle.

Spoiler alert No one told me. I knew from my own gut and not being a fucking idiot. Her defensive rant just solidified all the evidence I had.

[–]JACKDOGBOB 3 points4 points  (2 children)

What is this gut feeling and why do us men feel it? What causes it? Because I felt it in my last relationship but couldnt put a finger on why I felt it.

[–]1tombreck2 145 points146 points  (19 children)

While the boys are out playing tag and kickball at recess the girls are on the playground gossiping and chatting.

While boys are playing video games at sleepovers the girls are sitting around gossiping and chatting.

Just like the SMP, women start out with way more social skills than most men and it's up to men to become more socially savvy, cultured and charasmatic through work and experience.

[–]HeinousFu_kery 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Women socialize to be "normative", that is to be roughly equal within a group, while men socialize to be dominant in some way, that is singular in a group.

Nearly everything else follows from this, not the least being dishonesty/gossip/backstabbing which is a way to fight your way to the top while appearing to be one of the girls, outstanding among equals.

Guys duke it out in a more forthright manner most of the time, and learn to appear singular instead. This, of course, brands us as "unevolved", but that's a different point of discussion.

If you think about it though, there's a place for dishonesty in the male "top of the heap" contest too - how do you fight your way to the top in business or politics, appearing to be the head of state, the head of a fund, the person who sells you your next car, unless you can do all of those things?

Think Bill Clinton, Bernie Madoff, Charles Ponzi (yes, he was a real person), Frank Abagnale, Count Victor Lustig...anybody you like.

If you want sheer audacity, look up Gregor MacGregor who invented an entire country in the 1820s, then sold it to investors.

[–][deleted]  (6 children)

[deleted]

    [–]downvote_heaven 10 points11 points  (3 children)

    Just a side note, but I've found that women who have grown up with brothers are usually better and more understanding.

    [–]Ragu35 10 points11 points  (2 children)

    Depends. I've been around girls that think it's okay for them to say and do whatever they want because they've always had older brothers to back them up whenever she gets herself into trouble.

    [–]downvote_heaven 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Good point. The type of guy(s) they've been around really dictates their behavior.

    [–]Jade196 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I grew up as a first child of helicopter parents. Nothing I ever did was good enough. Even if I revealed the slightest flaw, I was rebuked. Having separate opinions from my parents was also unacceptable and discouraged. I was encouraged to be a good girl who did everything perfect and never argued or had a different opinion.

    I learned to lie early and often.

    [–]SgtSplacker 6 points7 points  (2 children)

    It's like the difference with soap operas and football games. Football is all about strategy that is put to the test of reality. Soaps are about manipulation and deception in an imaginary world.

    [–]1RBuddDwyer 7 points8 points  (1 child)

    Soaps are more about making her feel many different and varied emotions, which is why soaps have very little logical consistency from scene to scene. She watches the soaps to experience the emotional shifts, which gives her as much excitement as a man gets watching a well designed and executed play on the field.

    [–]Lu_the_Mad 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    Not more social skills, just different social skills.

    Women have a lot of sort of friends. Men usually have a very small handful of extremely close loyal friends.

    [–]zanfr99 6 points7 points  (6 children)

    In other words: learn to lie !

    [–]blue_27 8 points9 points  (4 children)

    I read something similar in a book about a prince once ...

    [–]zanfr99 15 points16 points  (1 child)

    Yes, Tyrion Lannister!

    (yes of course Machiavelli)

    [–]aazav 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Or: learn to lie and make her feel good about the lie.

    [–]1wantonton 22 points23 points  (2 children)

    I agree and disagree. You are correct on what women do, I think you are wrong on why you think they do it. The nature of your error is the support of my position. You were dealing with truth and lies. At the end you could not help but ultimately bring those two terms back to how, you as a male, must necessarily define them. It is so incontrovertible to you that they be so defined you cannot accept any explanation allowing them to be defined differently. Women are the same.

    To you what is true and what is not true is solely determined by the facts. It cannot be any other way. That is because your mind is wired to understand the world in that manner. That is not how women's minds are wired. To them, only what they feel needs to be true. The lengths of justification you show is correct, but that's not them trying to make it true, it is the facts as they must be as determined by their feelings.

    That's why women never regret cheating. If you had made her feel what ever this other guy felt, she wouldn't have needed to cheat. Moreover, denying herself the right to feel whatever the other guy can make her feel is unthinkable. There can be no greater evil. They view feelings the way men view truth--there can be no higher ideal. That's why they get furious when you question their answers, not because you are doubting them, you are denying the truth of their feelings. That's why the truth changes with them constantly, as their feeling change so does the truth.

    [–]themoor 41 points42 points  (10 children)

    I'm not here to agree or disagree about your claims about how, when, where women lie and how they learn how to do it, etc.

    But I do want to make an observation based on watching my sister for over 40s. She lies all the time. Sometimes she does this even when it brings her no advantage whatsoever. Further, the more she tells a lie the more her brain rewrites history and she becomes convinced it is the truth, even if every other witness to the event tells her she's getting it wrong.

    So, yeah, sometimes women know they are lying ("I did not sleep with that guy."). Still, I don't recall ever knowing a man who is so invested in manipulating the truth that they come to truly believe the BS coming out of their mouth.

    And I'm damn sure confident that my sister is not the only woman like this by a long shot.

    [–]thrway1312 25 points26 points  (0 children)

    Can confirm, grew up with 2 older sisters; ~40-60% of their communications were fabricated to avoid responsibility for their actions.

    [–]1xwm 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    Still, I don't recall ever knowing a man who is so invested in manipulating the truth that they come to truly believe the BS coming out of their mouth.

    Actually, I have two male friends like this, one more extreme than the other. I've gotten to the point where I just smile, nod, and ignore whatever the hell fable hes telling himself.

    [–]t21spectre 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    Why are you friends with compulsive liars?

    [–]ToroidMachine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    What bugs me about this the most currently is this insurmountable advantage this gives lying women over honest men towards blue pill men (and possibly other women but I don't know that).

    I can't say I never lied, but most of it was when I was still a child (and yet, even then, I lied by orders of magnitude less than my sister), and you can count the occasions when I lied after being a grown-up person on one hand. I am simply not capable of bullshitting people with a straight face, nor do I have the desire to do so.

    But most women, on the other hand, simply go and do just that. And if they do it with a person who is unaware of the dangers and unprepared they simply have the upper hand in the situation. Which is exactly what my GF is doing.

    Every time I come back to TRP, I wonder why I'm still with her.

    [–]yourbadinfluence 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    I dated a gal for a couple of years that started out with justification as OP said but after a while rewrote history and certainly believed her lies were truth. Maybe I just dated a pathological liar and that was her coping mechanism, I don't know but after a while I started to wonder if I was the one who was wrong. Her lies are what caused be to dump her and find TRP.

    [–]1DavidTeGnome 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Since men have always had to act upon reality directly, whereas women have only had to act upon it through men. Men have not had the luxury of twisting reality like women do. Any group of men who adopted this way of life would be quickly wiped out by a competing tribe of men who did not.

    For women, nothing would change or really press upon them to start acting upon reality directly. They would simply continue acting upon it through men, only this time through the new men as war brides, or concubines or whatever.

    This does bring up questions regarding a heavily lopsided process of natural selection between the genders.

    [–]SunShoe882 57 points58 points  (8 children)

    In Robert Greene's work on seduction, he mentions that early on in civilization, women lacked power. They didn't have the physical power to overcome men, however they knew that they could control men through their urges. However, once they were had by the men, their value diminished and their power was gone. As a response, women had to get good at gaming men, lying and manipulating them. What you see here is merely the culmination of generations of learned behavior.

    [–]I_Am_My_Own_God 23 points24 points  (5 children)

    In the book, Might is Right, he ends the book talking about women and their inherently manipulative natures. He postures something similar, that women evolved the ability to lie and manipulate because this was their only way of maintaining control in any given situation. Throughout history, as a male if you wanted something and were the strongest, you just took it. Women have never had this capability as a whole. Controlling the narrative and context of a situation is the only way they can get what they want.

    [–]dawg826 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    I would take it further. They want the strongest guy to have his way with them, but the weaker guys were still stronger relatively speaking and so these men needed to be manipulated. So to get the strongest seed (AF) they needed to up their manipulative tactics in general (retain BB).

    [–]fabrab 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    Isn't Ragnar Redbeard the pen name of two different writers?

    [–]I_Am_My_Own_God 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    I just finished the book and haven't really looked in to the authors too much but they believe it was Arthur Desmond.

    [–]fabrab 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    It's cool that it's still a mystery. When I looked into it, the popular theory was that it was a collaboration between Nietzsche and Jack London.

    [–]twochanz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Ragnar redbeard? I love that book.

    [–]1 Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    I came here to say this, although I don't know that book.

    I'd go one step further and say, that it is a general human trait to lie, if it seems to be the only way for you to be able to get your way.

    A man built like tree simply wouldn't need to lie to get what he wants in an archaic world. He could just take what he wants, and most of the the time wouldn't even have to worry about facing problems and consequences. It would just come natural since he will be on top of the pecking order in his circles from an early age on and he'll be used to appear intimidating enough to physically weaker members.

    Think of denying a silverback gorilla that banana he wants from you.

    A physically weak man on the other hand would have to think of other ways around his handicaps to still get what he want. Being sneaky and manipulative would most certainly be all which is left for him to have it his way.

    Even the nice guy does manipulate and lie, since he hides his true intentions and his needs behind a mask of kindness, secretly hoping to be able to talk somebody into doing something in return for him, or even just being able to avoid disadvantages for himself.

    Overstretching my banana analogy, he would need to learn to to bargain for it, for which he might need to be able to lie to the stronger male, about what benefits would await him, if he left him that banana, or at least shared it.

    The best possible place in the pecking order for him, is to become the advisor of the leader of the pack.

    I don't regard it as a coincidence, that the grand viziers and advisers of powerful men are mostly portrayed by small and weak built men in fiction.

    Women are weaker by default, so being manipulative also is their default state and they also have something of value to offer to a stronger male: their vagina and their uterus.

    [–]1RPinCA 56 points57 points  (9 children)

    I disagree with your conclusion that women know they're lying because they're, "not that stupid." It has nothing to do with "stupid." I've always been close friends with lots of women. What you don't see, unless you're friends with a girl, is the process of rewriting history that turns an obvious lie into the truth. The power of emotions over logic can rewrite any memory.

    I've heard female friends of mine say all of the following: "He didn't cum in my mouth so it wasn't really a blowjob, more like a handjob, and that's not even cheating really, Tom doesn't even like handjobs." "He didn't cum inside me, so it wan't really sex." "I was just really horny, he doesn't count." "Bill and I were fighting, so it's basically like we were technically broken up, so it wasn't really cheating." "He only lasted like 2 minutes, it doesn't count." "It was a threesome, so it's like, different than sex. A threesome is like just something spontaneous, it's not cheating." I could go on all day.

    The takeaway here is that women are amazingly good at redefining any word and recontextualizing any choice. If they'd caught their boyfriends in any of the same situations, it would clearly be cheating. But the desire to want to feel good emotions and avoid feeling bad emotions is incredibly powerful in women. The cognitive dissonance between how good something feels while doing it and how bad the potential consequences might feel when considering it afterwards, are overwhelming for them. They have trouble admitting to themselves that they made a bad choice. So instead they change the story in their heads. "It felt good at the time, so my choice was good. If my choice was good, it therefore can't be bad. Cheating is bad. My choice was good. So my choice couldn't have been cheating. So I get to keep feeling good."

    I've seen girls have these conversations where they begin by nervously and anxiously discussing how stupid they feel for cheating on a boyfriend and how guilty they feel and how they'd never do it again. Then they begin the justifications to remove responsibility. They redefine and recontextualize everything to be everyone's fault but hers. To define the act of cheating as something totally innocuous. By the time a day passes, these women talk as if she really never cheated on her boyfriend. No one even blinks when, less than a week after sucking another guy's dick at a party, a girl talks shit on another girl for cheating, and using the phrase, "I'd never to that to Tom." For them, it has become the new reality. They've all entered into this emotional pact that any choice which generates bad emotions never happened.

    Sure, deep down she knows she cheated. It's like putting a moped engine into a Ferrari. You can tell everyone that your car is super fast. And no one will doubt you, as long as they've never seen under the hood. The power of wanting something to be true to avoid negative emotions is so compelling that they brainwash themselves. It's why most men and women react differently when getting caught cheating. Men apologize because they know they did something wrong. Women get angry because they hate you for forcing them to feel all those negative emotions: guilt, fear, anger, shame, doubt, etc. So I agree with a lot of what you said OP, but I disagree on one main point: The reason women are such great liars is because their emotions enable them to believe their own bullshit.

    I know most people in this sub say not to be friends with women, but it's gotten me so many benefits -- insight into how women think, social proof, access to slutty friends, etc. -- that, for me, it's been a good decision. (You just can't trust them in anyway, expect anything from them, do anything for them, or rely on them. They're a different type of friend then your guy friends.) Most importantly, access to how women really think and act when they think they're not being watched. If it weren't for the behavior of the girls I was friends with in college, I'd probably still be eating up all kinds of blue pill bullshit. Instead, I've understood women better than most men I know and it made my college years and my 20's much happier as a result. I'm 2 months away from my 30's, and and still grateful to all of my female friends who remind me frequently how women really are.

    [–]3 Endorsed ContributorSkorchZang 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    Fantastically on point, female psychology revealed as is.

    [–]1favours_of_the_moon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    What you don't see, unless you're friends with a girl, is the process of rewriting history that turns an obvious lie into the truth. The power of emotions over logic can rewrite any memory.

    Agreed, and they will bounce it back and forth between themselves to reinforce and validate the new "truth."

    [–]JayViceroy 2 points3 points  (3 children)

    "I did not have sexual relations with that woman." -Clinton

    "Okay, okay, she sucked my dick, but a BJ ain't sex, fuckin everyone knows that." lol

    [–]1RPinCA 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    The key difference here is that Bill knew he was lying. He thought there was no proof, so he got up and lied. Had he known about the blue dress before making that statement, he would have gotten up there and put on the best insincere apology of all time. It's not that men don't lie. It's that when confronted with proof, they apologize, rather than getting mad.

    Bonus: Bill being deposed by Ken Starr gave us the best bullshit response in the history of bullshit.

    [–]DaSaw 9 points10 points  (1 child)

    Honest men are extremely rare. Honest women are, so far as I can tell, nonexistent.

    [–]gt35r 38 points39 points  (8 children)

    A woman will protect another woman from getting caught cheating or having an affair. I could spend all day on this topic. Typically men will let the other know under the table because of that bond we have with each other. I've seen and experienced first hand women protecting others when they know damn well they are cheating on their boyfriends or husbands, it's disgusting.

    [–]1wiseclockcounter 20 points21 points  (2 children)

    it's an "ill scratch your back if you scratch mine" deal. they collectively understand that helping each other is in their own best interest.

    [–]MagnanimousGenius 11 points12 points  (0 children)

    Unless they're edging out a sexual competitor

    [–]JACKDOGBOB 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    I know it makes me sound like a bitter asshole but this side of female nature makes me think the traditional patriachical system was completely just. Simply because female autonomy was restricted and a woman's sexual choices were controlled by her father. Left to their own devices, women as a collective will abandon any type of moral code and will selfishly act upon every fleeting desire they have will having the support of their fellow women. It disgusts me as well. Disgusting isnt strong enough of a word.

    [–]Slick_Takedown 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Also they jump out of the boat if the whole truth comes out. Suddenly they are no "friends" all the blame goes on the cheating gf wife or whatever and the protecting girl gets the fuck out. That's how women lose their "friendships".

    [–]1KyfhoMyoba 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    You should do a post on the subject. I think it would be highly informative to the newbies. And entertaining for the oldbies.

    [–]crazydave1979 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    And when they get accused of cheating they always say, " well I was here, just ask my friend ".

    [–]DaSaw 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Female equivalent of "bros before hoes"?

    [–]MattyAnon 12 points13 points  (1 child)

    Other things that happen:

    • Trickle truth. She very carefully tells you a very small part of the story, leaving the rest to be implied (this is a lie by implication).

    • Redefining things very narrowly. She's only had 6 guys before you. The other 12 "don't count" (eg. because they were one night stands, or her feelings weren't involved, or she didn't cum, or or or or or).

    • Believing that something that she feels happened actually happened. Even though it didn't. She feels it, therefore it actually happened. I've had girls actually make up events that couldn't have happened to support how they feel. They act as if it's gospel truth that it happened or was said.

    • Truth is contextual. What's true one minute in one situation is not true the next in a different context. A lot of sex stuff is like this. Classic hypergamy.

    • Putting a certain spin on things to make herself (or women in general) look good. The spin is clever. The truth is a lot more ugly. If you spot the gaps, go for them. If she gets rude and defensive or "are you taking the piss" or something like that - she's misdirecting.

    • If she's unwilling to be known as a person... she's probably not worth knowing. Honest people are happy to answer any questions within reason. Liars are not.

    • Lying about her level of sexual arousal. Common/obvious. But it's startling how well and instinctively they do it.

    • Changing the subject, as in OP. Rather than say "yeah I lied" they say "how DARE you look through my phone?" This is a form of social dominance. Avoid the consequences by refusing to admit it happened and putting the focus/blame onto you.

    This is all part of the feminine imperative. Honesty is important to you. Her social status and BB income is important to her. If you're caught being dishonest, you drop status. If she's caught lying, noone cares and there are no consequences.

    Some are better than others. Some lie even when outright caught out. Some are just doing standard misdirection but not TECHNICALLY lying. (There are many tells on this - if she won't be pinned down on exact language but always redirecting and wording things in a particular way, you know you've got one of these).

    [–]DaSaw 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Truth is contextual. What's true one minute in one situation is not true the next in a different context. A lot of sex stuff is like this. Classic hypergamy.

    http://youtu.be/O6kRqnfsBEc

    [–]Sweetmoe 10 points11 points  (5 children)

    She could probably even pass a lie detector test.

    You are greatly over exaggerating their ability. I am in social work and everybody tries to confuse or pass these tests with tricks. They never work. The danger is when men assume that women are like men; honest. When you look at a woman as though she is a woman her lies are as clear as day. This is what red pill teaches you. How to read the signs and when to call it quits.

    [–]theultmatecad 4 points5 points  (4 children)

    Please share these signs. I have seen my wife lie when I knew the real story before she spoke and it was breathtaking how composed she was

    [–]Sweetmoe 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    Have you heard of eye movements or head movements? Women still ha e these tells. Keeping eye contact and an unresponsive stare will tilt her and trickle truth pressing her to be more specific and observing body posture will reveal anything else that she hasn't come forth with.

    You might be impressed by female lieing ability or maybe I work with so many girls and am trained through profession that its become second nature, but they are not super human.

    [–]Acx3 24 points25 points  (12 children)

    I'm willing to submit that you can in fact tell when a woman is lying to you even if she has successfully deceived herself. At any given time the neocortex and limbic system of the brain are at work processing information and responding accordingly. The neocortex of the brain allows an individual to willfully restructure information and transmit that information as they see fit (People can control what words come out of their mouth). The limbic system of the brain unconsciously transmits information of a person's emotional state via nonverbal communication. Although people can deceive themselves and others via the neocortex the limbic system will inevitably leak out information. If you guys want me to write out my strategy for detecting deception let me know.

    [–]Titan5000 14 points15 points  (1 child)

    I thought you were going to make a joke: you know how I can tell she's lying? She's opening her mouth.

    [–]Acx3 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    haha, I actually thought about saying that.

    [–]Asoka11111 9 points10 points  (1 child)

    By all means, share with us

    [–]pachan 8 points9 points  (1 child)

    If you guys want me to write out my strategy for detecting deception let me know.

    yeah do that, make it your own post

    [–]Acx3 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Okay, I will try to make a post in the near future.

    [–]2Kill_Your_Ego 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    Yes ask them to repeat their stories using different timelines. Especially get them to walk through it backwards. Keep notes on what they say. Just keeping a journal of your thoughts will help you with this. Later ask them to repeat their story. Get them to sit in a completely relaxed posture while they talk. Encourage them to relax and let their arms hang limp.

    I can't remember the rest. There are good writings about this stuff.

    The most important thing to remember is never ever trust that a woman says. Not ever. You never can. Really makes them so much hard work.

    [–]Acx3 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Good stuff, many people are unwilling to accept the fact that their SO can and will lie to them to achieve their goals. We desperately want to believe what others say, especially if we like them. Unfortunately, we can't go around distrusting every single thing a woman says simply because we don't have the mental resources for such an endeavor. This is why its important to go into lie detection mode when our intuition senses something off or something just doesn't make sense. I like what you said about encouraging them to relax. You have to investigate your target without arousing suspicion for 2 reasons. 1) Its easier to invade the castle when the guards are sleeping. 2) You want to establish what their baseline behaviors are/ root them in the neural position so its easy to tell when certain questions (negative stimuli) cause a negative response. When you notice a defensive response (any behavior that shows negative affect) within 5 seconds after asking a question, you need to dig deeper into that area.

    [–]Garl_Vinland 20 points21 points  (4 children)

    It's human nature to judge others based on their actions, while judging yourself based on your intentions. By rationalizing (self-justification) any bad behavior as having come from a place of good intentions, women are immune to all forms of critisicm.

    [–]GalahadThreepwood 7 points8 points  (3 children)

    Yes, but a truly "rational" human being can recognize that default stance of judging others more harshly than themselves, take a step back, and say "Would I have honestly done things differently?" And when the realization comes to them that the subject of their scrutiny is quite similar to themselves, they'll make an effort to reshape their thinking.

    [–]Titan5000 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Agree, but come on, how many women can you know do that? (Not any) And even more importantly, how many men do you know that can do that? (Again, not many either). It's really easy to take a step back and look at something logically if you're not the one directly in the foray. If you are a third party observer and have no emotions in the matter, all you have is logic and rationale. It's difficult oftentimes for men to be rational and logical during duress without practice, women stand no chance, nor do they even attempt to do so.

    [–]GalahadThreepwood 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Sure, I guess it just pisses me off that a person who rationalizes is most certainly not rational.

    [–]t21spectre 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    As one of my 40 year old coworkers told me years ago:

    "You want to find a good liar, look no further than the closest woman."

    [–]shitfuckedmeup 12 points13 points  (5 children)

    Is was described to me like this once. It's called the Karpman drama triangle.

    There are three roles that people take in a situation.

    • The person who plays the role of a victim

    • The person who pressures, coerces or persecutes the victim, and

    • The rescuer, who intervenes

    It is worth noting that in this situation:

    The game position of rescuer is distinct from that of a genuine rescuer in an emergency, such as a firefighter who saves a victim from a burning building or a lifeguard who saves a victim from drowning. As a drama role, there is something dishonest or unspoken about the rescuer's attempts, or at best, a mixed motive or need to be a rescuer or have a victim to help


    In your example:

    When your girl tells you something

    She starts off as the rescuer, of herself with her lies. You are playing the role of the persecutor, armed with your facts and challenging her lies. Her friend is not yet in the picture.

     

    When you turn the tables and bring out:

    you remark that you spoke with her friend, and you know that’s not true

     

    Your girl immediately becomes victim and she responds in a typical victim fashion:

    Why don’t you trust me? Why are you checking up on me with my friends? Do you seriously believe her over me?

    At this point, you are the persecutor, questioning her lies. Her friend has now entered the picture, in mention alone, assumes the role of the rescuer in the sense that what she has told you is your rescue from your girls lies.

     

    Then you drop the bomb:

    When you respond that you also logged into her phone, e-mail, facebook, whatever, and found concrete evidence that she’s a lying bitch

    And she comes back with:

    how dare you invade her privacy like that. How dare you snoop on her. How dare you not trust her.

    She has now assumed the position of the persecutor, you have become the victim (as the accused) and her friend leaves the picture.

     

    I hope I have conveyed my interpretation of the example correctly. I was made aware of the Karpman drama triangle by my father not long ago when relaying a story to him.

    Since I have been introduced to the triangle, I have been able to apply it to almost every interaction with women. You will find that as you come to understand the triangle that you will manage to relate it to many of your past and current interactions and learn to use it to your advantage in future.

    [–]1wantonton 3 points4 points  (2 children)

    what's the best way to use this info?

    [–]agumonkey 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Amazing summary. I've been guilty of playing the rescuer for so long, and ended up aiming at victim type of girls so we'd feed each others biased views.

    [–]shitfuckedmeup 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    A very common thing that happens. I was once that guy as well. I no longer allow myself to be any womans emotional dump.

    Read up on the triangle, it's amazing how well it applies to everyday interactions.

    [–]RPSigmaStigma 13 points14 points  (8 children)

    Way of the Superior Man has a great chapter on women lying. Anyone who hasn't read that book should go buy a copy now.

    [–]monochrome_rainbow 28 points29 points  (3 children)

    From Way of the Superior Man:

    "Keeping your word" is a masculine trait, in men or women. A person with a feminine essence may not keep her word, yet it is not exactly "lying" In the feminine reality, words and facts take a second place to emotions and the shifting moods of relationship. When she says, "I hate you," or "I'll never move to Texas," or "I don't want to go to the movies," it is often more a reflection of a transient feeling-wave than a well considered stance with respect to events and experience. On the other hand, the masculine means what it says. A man's word is his honor. The feminine says what it feels. A woman's word is her true expression in the moment.

    [–]waylandertheslayer 15 points16 points  (0 children)

    Preface everything she says with "Right now I feel like".

    • "Right now I feel like I'll love you forever."

    • "Right now I feel like you're being unreasonable."

    • "Right now I feel like there's nothing between me and him, he's just a co-worker."

    [–]HardBounce 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    I'm currently reading this based on a suggestion of The Rational Male and The Red Queen If you have not read The Red queen by Ridley I highly suggest it.

    [–]Hale_Merry 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I second this. From what I remember, The Red Queen has quite a bit of biological theory mixed in. Depending on how knowledgeable you are in the field, you may need to Google some things. Don't let it put you off, though. Still very layman accessible.

    [–]kevkos 7 points8 points  (9 children)

    I simply don't stand for dishonesty. As soon as that starts occurring, I'm either out or got one foot out the door and I will let her know. If my girl lies to me, to me the relationship is either over or nearly over. I can give her 1 break if it is a minor thing, but I really think there's no place for dishonesty from men or women in relationships.

    If a woman is dishonest with you, it's time to NEXT as lying is going to be how she deals with any sort of conflict in the future.

    [–]turtlesdontlie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    That nexting thing is crucial, once they see your reaction to their dishonesty they will try their damned hardest to avoid you finding anything out ever again.

    [–]rpscrote 3 points4 points  (4 children)

    might want to start dating dudes because a perfectly honest woman is a unicorn

    [–]kevkos 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    And you think there are "perfectly" honest dudes? The point is to not just let lies slide and give women a pass for lying "because they're women".

    [–]agumonkey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    How long did it took you to finally imprint this in your mind ? I completely agree now, but after years of needy supplications.

    [–]rossiFan 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    If you thwart their lie, you are the enemy of righteousness.

    There is not a truer collection of words in this sub.

    [–]longerdistance 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    I feel like the people in this thread are talking about different things as if they were the same.

    Yes, women can lie with a straight face because they have justified their lying to themselves.

    Yes, women can, with time and only to a certain degree, convince themselves of their own lies in a subconscious attempt to resolve cognitive dissonance. Men can, incidentally, do the same thing but are far less adapt at it.

    Yes, women also often say things that are based on their emotions in that moment, that should not be taken as their permanent point of view.

    Archwinger's argument, if I understand it correctly, is that women who lie about something for the first time are so good at it because they can easily justify it to themselves, not because they actually believe what they say happened. This is completely true as evidenced by their reaction when you call them out on it. They don't defend their lie, they defend their right to lie.

    [–]ambassador_of_porn 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I'm always surprised how easily girls can lie about their sex lives. And those... leading questions girls ask when they suspect that you suspect something and want to know how much exactly do you know, it feels like they all have attended to some special college that teaches such secretive behavior. I guess it's the widespread slut-shaming that is to blame, everyone wants to have sex, but no one want to look like a whore, so here comes the practice in hiding things.

    [–]itsDAP 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Could not be more spot on. Had to leave my most recent LTR for this very reason. Wasn't even shit she needed to lie about, just things she thought would make her look better in my eyes. As they unraveled and I decided to leave, I was somehow the bad guy for caring about "things that shouldn't matter."

    What I'm curious about is if this is something we as men must learn to accept. That most women lie on some level, and to find the one who does the least.

    [–]sealteamaus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    they believe their shit in the moment, once you chase the truth out of them they will concede but it would have changed nothing, nor will it have any impact. they wont change their ways, its what they are. its a dog trying to make a cat join the pack, wont happen.

    [–]stevredpill 8 points9 points  (7 children)

    Women don't think in terms of truth and lie. They think in terms of what is socially/situationally acceptable to say that will make the recipient of the statement feel a certain way.

    They are about feels, not truths - and it's not necessarily bad. It's just different, and the moment that a man accepts this truth, he will not get worked up over a person that inherently doesn't have the same world view as him. Instead, he will be able to see what they were doing, and respond in kind.

    [–]cariboo_j 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    This reminds me of a baffling exchange I had with an ex girlfriend. Well, baffling before I discovered the manosphere. We had some disagreement (I forget about what exactly).

    Her: "You're making me feel like my emotions aren't valid".

    Me: "Maybe they're not."

    Her: look of horror

    Me: "Just because you're experiencing an emotion, that doesn't mean you should feel that way. I'm sure 1900's racists felt great about lynching black people. That doesn't mean they were morally justified. You need to step back, see if you are being a good person or a jerk based on some objective criteria, then act on that instead of your feelings."

    Her: blank stare. "How could you say that?! What kind of boyfriend doesn't respect his girls feelings?"

    Incredible. Absolutely incredible. This was a straight "A" university student too, who prided herself on being an intellectual. I thought this was perfectly obvious. Of course you do the right thing instead of what you feel. This is the sort of thing you explain to a child.

    Surely women aren't ruled by their emotions to this extend. It's SEXIST to think women can't be objective, after all.

    Are you telling me this is PAR FOR THE COURSE?! God, why did I swallow this pill.

    [–]DaegobahDan 5 points6 points  (3 children)

    I just read an article today about a guy and girl that had very loud and very consensual sex but then 9 months later when she is home for break and her mom finds her diary, suddenly it was rape. >_>

    [–]1KyfhoMyoba 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Can you say "Desiree Washington" and "Mike Tyson?"

    [–]stevredpill 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Yeah, "I feel horrible because my mom found out and I don't want to get in trouble because I hate it when I am in trouble with my mother. I know what I can say to resolve this! There. I feel better now :)"

    [–]denmaur 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    My ex used to lie to me all the time. Once I found out she had taken some pain pills that I had a Rx for. She was so convincing, if I hadn't counted the number of pills twice I would have believed her. Even at that I still doubted myself because she was so convincing. It took three days of questioning her about them before she finally admitted to taking them. She is also a master manipulator. She constantly tries to control relationships and does a good job at it. Most people don't realize what she's doing.

    She was bad news all around.

    [–]Wannabe_Williams 7 points8 points  (7 children)

    It’s how dare you invade her privacy like that.

    This is a fair thing to bring up, though. Just not as a justification for something.

    [–]s0und0fyell0w 5 points6 points  (6 children)

    it would be an invasion of her privacy, that is true. but if we are accepting the premise that most woman are liars and hypothetically are still trying to carry on a LTR how else would keep tabs on her and make sure shes being faithful other than invading her privacy? would it just be better to sit around wondering if shes cheating...

    *I realize that might sound like some sort of rationalization on my part but I think people in a ltr are supposed to be more open with eachother/ shouldn't have much to hide. I cant really see a wife feeling guilty about checking her husbands phone records...

    [–][deleted]  (4 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]Ojisan1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Your feelings are valid because you feel them.

      Great point. Why should we give ourselves any less of a free pass on our feelings than a woman would give herself?

      [–]Wannabe_Williams 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Privacy is a right for both men and women, regardless of ones need to keep tabs on another person.

      [–]thegr8b8m8 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      They also will use this same tactic for shopping. My wife can always come up with some really good reasons why she has to go buy something and she totally justifies this in her head for whatever reasons.

      [–]Aaron565 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Many people can lie with ease. Its as simple as tricking yourself momentarily to treat the lie as truth. I'm not sure there are actually any studies that show women lie at a noticeably higher rate than men. It's more accurate to say women lie more, but only a few times more per day than men do.

      Everyone lies, women are just better at justifying it.

      [–]agumonkey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Yeah, I've seen it by men (me included). It's just pure weakness but somehow I feel like most men hate it so f'in hard, they'll avoid it most of the time; while women, if presented a situation will rush into the bullshit head on.

      [–]GoatwithHorns 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      A pretty blonde girl messaged me after her cutting contact for along time. She expected me to be all gaga over her but I texted her back "whos this?". Threads like these really are reminders that you can't give women anything.

      I'm too much of an honest boy scout to trust a woman with anything.

      [–]JACKDOGBOB 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Eagle scout here. A scout is honest.

      [–]LugerDog 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      You just described my ex. This bitch was so good at it she fucking ruined my ass. Then she just left my ass in the middle of a surrogacy we had planned for for a German family. I held off on having a kid for that shit but thank fucking god I did. I'm the bad guy though cause I outed her on her lies.

      [–]nokomis28 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Receptionist: I can't resist! You usually move through here so quickly and I just have so many questions I want to ask you. You have no idea what your work means to me.

      Melvin Udall: What does it mean to you?

      Receptionist: [stands up] When somebody out there knows what it's like...

      [place one hand on her forehead and the other over her heart]

      Receptionist: ... to be in here.

      Melvin Udall: Oh God, this is like a nightmare.

      [Turns around and presses the elevator button multiple times]

      Receptionist: Oh come on! Just a couple of questions. How hard is that?

      Receptionist: How do you write women so well?

      Melvin Udall: I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability.

      [–]L4rk 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      OP Is your woman's name Jenny?!?!?!?

      [–]bobjoe177 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Its an evolutionary arms control agreement.men developed jealousy and protectiveness and never trust women and women developed deceptivness to get around that lack of trust. Kind words ,deflection, and flattery. Its all just to maximize the genetic quality of offspring while reaping the benefits of monogamy. We're on to you scheming sluts, its slave labour in the insemination business.

      [–]DarkCircle 1 point2 points  (3 children)

      I disagree. My experience of women lying is that they are very sloppy liars. This is probably due to no one really questioning them on what they are saying and people who just 'listening and believe'. I think a lot of lies are concocted in the heat of the moment and thought out badly.

      What I have noticed is that most women who lie do not like to tell outright lies. They will distort or censor the truth often resulting in a story that does not completely make sense when you think about it and ask questions.

      Stuff like: "Bill was really aggressively flirting with me yesterday. He made me feel so uncomfortable." When you actually ask questions, like what did he say and do, things start to unravel. He said "Hi, you look amazing" (which she responded positively to) then gave her a hug before chatting and moving on. She may have also left out that she flirted with him prior to this. However she wants to paint herself as the victim and Bill as the villain.

      What she has said is not completely untrue, it is a very distorted version of the truth with her own agenda. When you are hearing someone tell you something that paints someone in a particular light, listen for what is missing and be aware that there may likely be more to the story. Also take your emotions out of it and listen for holes in the story or hesitation when you start asking for more concrete details. Ignore statements like "I felt" or "he was creepy" listen for hard facts. Also if you know more about the situation then she thinks you do, withhold it for a while and see if she tells you that missing piece accurately.

      Most women are really sloppy liars. I am really sure that there some really good psychos out there but the majority I have seen can put on a convincing show but the mask starts cracking once you start asking logical questions.

      [–]pige2246 1 point2 points  (6 children)

      Wow. So many "alphas" on here crying about a broken heart. What real, secure boys. Lets try and be opened minded that people, regardless of sex and race, are all devious and malicious. Ones personal values creates selfishness. The fact that you "men" are having your women hating group therapy sessions, truly shows how weak you are. Ask yourself this, why would a woman want to be with a man thats afraid of himself? His heart? His emotions? His insecurities of being alone? Close mindedness only shows true fear.

      [–]17 Endorsed ContributorArchwinger[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      Ask yourself this, why would a woman want to be with a man thats afraid of himself? His heart? His emotions? His insecurities of being alone?

      I ask myself that all the fucking time. Why do women keep having sex with red pillers when we're so darn terrible? It's like we're being encouraged to hate them. Rewarded for it.

      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      To further understand why they "convince" themselves that they are in the right to lie to you is quite simple. As we all know, women are emotional and they will always compare everything to what emotions they evoke, so if they know they cheated (for instance) and feel what they did felt right, they will assume it's ok. The same applies to not telling you, they go "this would cause so much pain and it did me so well, I could never tell him because it would break his world in half. I'm such a good person!".

      [–]BourneRedPill 1 point2 points  (4 children)

      This is great. Justification - makes sense now with all BS they put themselves and their men through.

      But, how do you deal with it? Call them out once in a while. Just live with it? Since all women will do this?

      [–]RatherPlayChess 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      In reading Othello I'm sure you'll find that a lie of omission is the wrongest sort of lie.

      It does a man good to have a little Columbo in him. Always be questioning the motives of the person you're speaking with. It's the good practice of any listener. I guarantee you Mrs. Columbo never goes to be unsatisfied!

      [–]user_none 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Ugh, the lie of omission. Ex wife was a pro at that and absolutely would not own up to any of her lies, especially the ones of omission. To top it off, she is a Dr. of pharmacy and made good money. She's just an educated liar...

      [–]Waldo00 1 point2 points  (6 children)

      A women looks you in the eye when she lies. Take advantage of this and watch her pupils dilate. Only psychopaths and truly anxiety ridden people will fail this tell.

      [–]ProductivityMonster 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      It's one tell, but once again, you need a couple to be sure. There could just be less light or maybe she's horny or or or...

      [–]through_a_ways 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Take advantage of this and watch her pupils dilate.

      Only really applicable if you're dating a white girl.

      [–]symko 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Actions speak louder than words. There should always be some suspicion when talking to ANY woman.

      Unless you see them DOING, use caution with what she's SAYING.

      [–]TheBadGod 1 point2 points  (4 children)

      I rely on my son's mother to lie well enough to raise him properly and keep him safe. It's also good for him to challenge her constantly, questioning her logic and the facts he has collected so far.

      I don't need the women in my life to be honest. My self-esteem isn't rooted in fidelity or honesty.

      Aside from that, I would like to know if you really fed the pup and took her out so she won't wake us up in the middle of the night whining.

      [–]agumonkey 2 points3 points  (3 children)

      Not self-esteem, but basic human relationship maybe ? can you enjoy someone you know is randomly telling lies whenever convenient ? You're more of a physical relationship kind of guy ?

      [–]TheBadGod 2 points3 points  (2 children)

      As long as she's excited to see me, remains enthusiastic when we're having sex, tries to keep me out of the bar, and makes sure the bills are paid, she can do whatever she wants.

      I've got friends for basic human companionship.

      If it ends up she's got a boy she likes to fuck, I'll fuck her boy too.

      [–]DexiAntoniu 2 points3 points  (2 children)

      Anybody's good at lying if you look into his mouth... When it comes to women, it's just another sort of pussypass, I find them to be very bad liars.

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]slcjosh 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        This. If you are a weak pushover doormat they will lie to your face with no hesitation or remorse. If you have a solid frame and they know they cant fuck around, they are much less likely to lie to you. Now do i have empirical scientific evidence of this? No, but from personal anecdote this is 100% my experience.

        [–]agumonkey 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Maybe it's an evolved mechanism. The only way to have access to a meaningful relationship with a girl is to be the way that makes her trustworthy. Inverted double penalty.

        [–]smokingmonkey420 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        I just don't even care anymore. I can tell when they're lying and instead of arguing I just say, "I believe you."

        [–]Movonnow 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        That's the way to go. Let them think they control the situation, avoid a useless and harmful confrontation then use your power to do what you please.

        [–]user_none 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        That somehow, her mind has rewritten history so that she really didn’t cheat on you, or she really has only slept with two other guys, or that she’s definitely on the pill and takes it religiously at the same time every day, or whatever the fuck else she wants to lie about.

        The rewriting history has, at least in my experience, been a major signaling of the downfall of a relationship. Coincidentally or not, Dr. John Gottman has that as one of six predictors of divorce. Happy times are slowly written out and bad times are the replacement.

        Do not underestimate the power of a woman's mind to rewrite history. I've experienced it multiple times over three marriages and other relationships, and it's been a constant. While I've hung onto the good times, I could see and hear the replacement of good with bad in the women. Anything to justify the splitting of a family...

        Cash and prizes, gents. Cash and prizes.

        [–]3dollarsfiftycents 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        The thing is, you know intuitively when someone is lying to you. its rationalizing THEIR behavior that can get you into trouble

        [–]yehim 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        The art of telling lies is to belive it completely. Now to deny something people have proof you did, is a stupid fucking lie. But to lie about your motivation is quite effective and almost impossible to prove wrong or right. Let's say I cheated on my gf, and the girl I cheated on her with told her. I'm screwed right? Nope, suddenly I tell my soon to be ex gf that there is no excuse to what I did. It was all my fault, ever since I was little people have leaved me and I push people away before they have a chance to do so. I know that I love my gf so I shouldn't have had that drink with her. I should have said no thanks when she offered it and taken a cab home. I'm sure she only meant to offer me a red bull vodka as a friendly gesture since she is/was a good friend of ours and she would never have intended to hurt my gf by fucking me. I shouldn't have agreed to share a cab with her and I should have called a cab for myself and politly denied her request. I can handle my alcohol good enough to realize that a glass of wine at her place meant something diffirent then a friendly drink. I guess I was desperate to get attention from a pretty girl. I know this sounds stupid because my gf gives me all the love I need and to be honest is out of my league. And it's my fault and all I really did was to prove my own insecurities that I don't really deserve such a gf but damn sometimes I need to feel beautifull too! Was any of that true except that I fucked her friend? Absolutly fucking not! Was that a good cover up? Nope. But I also put the blame on someone else then me, and the shitstorm focused on someone else then me while the gf only think I did it because I'm insecure and pathetic is far better then the shitstorm focused only on me while she thinks I'm ttrying to blame someone else. : Lie about motivation and pretend to take blame while tilting the story to suggest otherwise can work miracles. Also fake stories about abuse in ones childhood works great as fake motivation.

        [–]aazav 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Girls like and want the 'little white lie'.

        They want to do it. They want to hear it.

        I think that point is another part of this justification and lying behavior which you have so nicely tied together.

        [–]p3ndulum 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Tonight I was with my niece and nephew at a Boys & Girls club where there was an 8 year old girl following a 13 year old boy around everywhere. The 13 year old kid's friend kept asking her "do you like my friend?" She said "no" every time, but still followed him everywhere with a big smile on her face.